S19.E23: Remember Me & S19.E24: Remember Me Too

[dttruman]

This description was taken from the IMdb's account of the episode:

When a young woman takes a man hostage, Benson puts herself at risk to defuse the situation; SVU discovers the reason for the abduction.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Drogo
Removed date from title.

[dttruman]

Which member of SVU will chastise Benson first for putting her life on the line and asks her, "Who is going to take care of Noah if you are gone?"?

[dttruman]

Since they said there was going to be a ruthless criminal network operating in Manhatten, I thought they would probably have some cops on the take so I look up the cast for the finale and was expecting to find Peter Gallagher (Dodds). I didn't find Dodds, but I did find something interesting. An Officer Montero, played by Eddie Hargitay. He is a cousin of MH. That's fine, it's her show, she can do what she wants. What I don't like about it and  I don't know who is to blame for it, but for some reason on the IMdB website for this episode, he is listed above Olivet character (Carolyn McCormick). I don't know if it's the people at IMdB or the SVU people. I maybe really nitpicking or being totally irrational, but I think this kind of disrespects the Olivet character.

[Xeliou66]

It just shows the nepotism on MH’s part getting her family on the show, not surprising given her huge ego. 

I am excited to see Olivet back, I hope we get to see her and Peter Stone interact and we get a reference to Ben, since Olivet worked closely with him. 

I hope it’s an interesting case and the “Benson in danger” shit doesn’t take up too much of the episode. 

[QueenMab]

So.....again, SWAT and TAC Teams and hostage negotiators are all useless in a hostage situation. Only Benson can lead the way, most certainly give up her weapon, and spend the episode talking the nutball woman into "doing the right thing". For two freakin' hours. Ay! Maria Madre de Dios! C'mon SVU.....just..c'mon.

[Fiero425]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 9:57 AM, QueenMab said:

So.....again, SWAT and TAC Teams and hostage negotiators are all useless in a hostage situation. Only Benson can lead the way, most certainly give up her weapon, and spend the episode talking the nutball woman into "doing the right thing". For two freakin' hours. Ay! Maria Madre de Dios! C'mon SVU.....just..c'mon.

I have no sympathy for anyone here; all are incompetent morons! The guys screams for help knowing a camera's there, but doesn't give address, she's willing to do all this threatening cops, and the cop/Olivia walked right into this scene knowing a crazy woman was loose! Idiots! ;-(

[MrsRafaelBarba]

:BLANK STARE:

[dttruman]

Usually when Benson (or any police officer) is taken hostage, they have to listen to why the person is doing what they are doing. Instead Benson has to go right into her little monologue about what Lewis did to her.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Shoot her Lourdes

[dttruman]

It's funny how she can't seem to kill her rapist , but she showed no hesitation to almost killing that one guy with a lamp. With all that blood all over the place I am surprised he is still alive. Ops, my mistake he died.

Edited May 24, 2018 by dttruman

[Fiero425]

Well Olivia's truly lost her mind! Lourdes is the victim, but the owner of that apartment had his head bashed in by this b!tch and died on the operating table! Olivia calls her the victim! "Thanks Liv!" ;-)

8 minutes ago, dttruman said:

It's funny how she can't seem to kill her rapist , but she showed no hesitation to almost killing that one guy with a lamp. With all that blood all over the place I am surprised he is still alive.

He didn't make it! She should be done regardless of her tragic circumstances! She didn't need to whack him that hard the 2nd time! ;-(

Edited May 24, 2018 by Fiero425

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Whoo boy, this one is a doozy

 

 

Stone ain't here for Benson's BS  in this episode.

Edited May 24, 2018 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Fiero425]

2 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Whoo boy, this one is a doozy

 

 

Stone ain't here for Benson's BS  in this episode.

It's early! lol! ;-)

[dttruman]

Is it me or does Benson have blinders on here. She is totally disregarding the fact that Lourdes killed someone, and I would call it murder and not manslaughter, by the way. They are trying real  hard here to inject a lot of Benson's personal beliefs in this and she is suppose to be objective.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Benito Martinez.

He was on The Shield, an outstanding cop drama.

[QueenMab]

So.....this is pretty much how I thought it would be? OY!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Welp!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Here comes the Cartel!

[dttruman]

2 minutes ago, QueenMab said:

So.....this is pretty much how I thought it would be? OY!

I can't believe how convoluted this episode has become. They inappropriately and selfservingly without reason brought in the social issue of immigration and "Dreamers" and then that conversation in the bar with Stone showed how bias Benson has become. Benson testimony in court concerning PTSD should be stricken and now. If this had any sense of reality, Benson would be taken off the case.

[Fiero425]

18 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Is it me or does Benson have blinders on here. She is totally disregarding the fact that Lourdes killed someone, and I would call it murder and not manslaughter, by the way. They are trying real  hard here to inject a lot of Benson's personal beliefs in this and she is suppose to be objective.

When it comes to rape, Benson has no objectivity! She sees red and can't be bothered with whatever else should be taken into consideration! She's totally overlooking the murder of that apt. owner! Now Stone's sister has been taken to influence the trial! The cartel wants the case dropped to deal with Lourdes at their leisure back in Mexico; truly crazy now! She had a life working with a family that loved her and she gave it all away in this "temporary" insane venture! ;-)

[Fellaway]

Sooo... directly after that guy telling the other cops to not be heroes, Benson goes on into that penthouse, knowing things had gone belly up for the other cop, sooo... she could be a hero?

Ugh, there is so much bad in this episode.  And I so wanted Benson to be wrong.  Her "certitude" has given her blinders to anyone or anything other than the rape victim, at this point in her career, which is great for victim advocacy, but for being a cop?  Not so much, not even on SVU.

Stone asking to treat Olivia as a hostile witness?  First time I've liked him, and he wasn't wrong.

Are we really supposed to care what happens to Stone's sister?  I don't even remember her name.

Just glad the "something terrible" doesn't look like it's happening to Carisi.  That's all I got.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Fellaway

[TVForever]

I haven't watched this show in about 2 seasons because Olivia had become insufferable, and every other character on the show had become in service to her (especially Barba, who once was my favorite character). I watched tonight because I'm traveling in an area with few channels and this was one of them. Not only have things not changed, they've gotten worse. I'm not even finishing the episode.

By the way, is the guy EVER not guilty on this show?

[MikeWhitf87]

I don't care about Stone's sister, hell I don't give a damn about Stone. This is the most boring season finale I have seen from this show in a while!

[MrsRafaelBarba]

The Apt owner Jorge had ties to the  Cartel.

The brother Diego made good on his threats.

[Fiero425]

4 minutes ago, MikeWhitf87 said:

I don't care about Stone's sister, hell I don't give a damn about Stone. This is the most boring season finale I have seen from this show in a while!

Well she's gone now as well! This idiot kidnapper just lets her wander away from him in a standoff and shoots her signaling his own "suicide by cop!" ;-)

[dttruman]

15 minutes ago, TVForever said:

I haven't watched this show in about 2 seasons because Olivia had become insufferable, and every other character on the show had become in service to her (especially Barba, who once was my favorite character). I watched tonight because I'm traveling in an area with few channels and this was one of them. Not only have things not changed, they've gotten worse. I'm not even finishing the episode.

By the way, is the guy EVER not guilty on this show?

This episode in itself has destroyed all the credibility that the last few episodes had received. This episode has become a blatant political statement and a vehicle for St Benson to come riding in on her white steed to make everything better.

Edited May 24, 2018 by dttruman

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Ah Stone, I would've held you while u cried.

 

Why did it have to be Benson?

[dttruman]

9 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

The Apt owner Jorge had ties to the  Cartel.

The brother Diego made good on his threats.

It is so stupid! Why would he (or the cartel) want to threaten a DA and kidnap and possibly kill a DA's sister? That would bring more heat down on the cartel, than just eliminating Lourdes in NY. Just a real stupid plot line!

Edited May 24, 2018 by dttruman

[dttruman]

On 5/22/2018 at 10:57 AM, QueenMab said:

So.....again, SWAT and TAC Teams and hostage negotiators are all useless in a hostage situation. Only Benson can lead the way, most certainly give up her weapon, and spend the episode talking the nutball woman into "doing the right thing". For two freakin' hours. Ay! Maria Madre de Dios! C'mon SVU.....just..c'mon.

I was almost expecting that. But you called it!  At the end, SUV tried to take over for SWAT and TAC at the end.

Edited May 25, 2018 by dttruman

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Benson was extra annoying tonight.

 

Jack should've been the one consoling Peter at the end.

[DrSparkles]

Que? What WAS that?!

[dttruman]

2 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Jack should've been the one consoling Peter at the end.

They had to give it that extra dose of Benson

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Just now, dttruman said:

They had to give it that extra dose of Benson

 

I was hoping he would tell Benson to kick rocks.

Poor Pam, just when she recognized her brother.

[dttruman]

29 minutes ago, TVForever said:

I haven't watched this show in about 2 seasons because Olivia had become insufferable, and every other character on the show had become in service to her (especially Barba, who once was my favorite character). I watched tonight because I'm traveling in an area with few channels and this was one of them. Not only have things not changed, they've gotten worse. I'm not even finishing the episode.

By the way, is the guy EVER not guilty on this show?

There were some good episodes right before this one.  If you get a chance to watch them, they will remind you of the good old days of quality SVU episodes.

[Laurie4H]

So I guess all crimes are excusable to Benson if the woman was raped.  She could go on a killing spree because she had PSD from being raped let’s say 20 years ago....she would still be considered a victim.

The episodes are much better when they aren’t pushing their political agenda, heavy handingly throwing in political talking points, and being too self righteous.

Edited May 24, 2018 by Laurie4H

[statsgirl]

39 minutes ago, Fiero425 said:

Well she's gone now as well! This idiot kidnapper just lets her wander away from him in a standoff and shoots her signaling his own "suicide by cop!" ;-)

I thought he let her go deliberately so that he could shoot her proving to Peter that he really is the badass cartel member he said he is.

[TVForever]

42 minutes ago, dttruman said:

This episode in itself has destroyed all the credibility that the last few episodes had received. This episode has become a blatant political statement and a vehicle for St Benson to come riding in on her white steed to make everything better.

 

22 minutes ago, dttruman said:

There were some good episodes right before this one.  If you get a chance to watch them, they will remind you of the good old days of quality SVU episodes.

Thanks. I'll check them out on demand when I get back home. I really did enjoy this show in its earlier seasons.

[MikeWhitf87]

I hope to God these writers don't try to force Benson and Stone on us. Ugh

I'll take Tuckson back before that BS.

[Gigi43]

Why have jails and as many detectives if victims can just kill the person responsible.  Does this only apply to rapes for Benson?  She's not objective as she is required to be and of course that will never be addressed.  There was no evidence and she had no grounds to yell at the guy tied up but of course he did it. Benson  said  "it's more likely she saw him in the club thanot a guy who looked like the person who attacked Lourdes. " What? When Lopez was getting shit for paying taxes with a false SSN was the high point of my imaginary shred of hope he was telling the truth about being innocent.  Yeah it was a crime but if he was an immigrant not paying taxes that is too cheating the government. 

 

Did that family buy Lourdes or not?  She seemed to have a life in the beginning going out to clubs not afraid of stepping outside (though she did have a gun.) 

 

I cant with the Stone /Benson ending. No words. Uhg.

[wknt3]

The Good:
The opener once we got past Benoah. Loved Fin and Rollins in the country bar. And Carisi working the overnight dealing with the subway perv really felt like the comic relief moments of classic SVU. The rest was well done too - they've been really strong the last few weeks as far as the directing and editing. If only the rest of the show had lived up to the promise of the teaser like it (mostly) has the last few weeks...
Fin. He continues to be the voice of reason and the viewer pointing out the stupidity going on around him.
Carisi and Rollins too. I wish we got to see more of them in the second half, because when they were on it was mostly interesting solid stuff.
Stone, sort of. It was nice to see him acting like an ADA telling Benson to STFU, act like a cop, and follow the law. Unfortunately we couldn't have him be completely right and he had to suffer for the sin of doubting St. Benson and the less said about the final standoff in the warehouse and the ending the better, but for long stretches it was enjoyable seeing someone righteously lecture Benson.
Olivet. They didn't use her nearly enough, but it was nice seeing her. Of course what they really needed was Skoda to come in and say that she showed signs of past trauma, but knew what she was doing was wrong and that it was obvious Benson needed to be relieved of duty and put on leave!
Lourdes' lawyer. A diamond of realism and subtlety in a manure pile of melodramatic nonsense. I suspect that his character was one of the areas where Chernuchin had free reign and Benito Martinez showed what a good actor he was on The Shield, but most of his scenes were actually quality television and it is nice to see a defense attorney who is not a sleazebag or a pushover.

The Bad:
Holy crap! TWO hostage situation f ups AND Benson being right based on her gut and getting the conviction despite acting on the basis of no evidence AND acting like a victim's advocate and not a cop AND the BenStone shipping going full blast AND Benoah AND the foreign gangs that are all powerful until the final act? It's like there was some sort of perverse bet that they could fit all of the show's worst tropes into one episode. It's like if Star Trek decided to have an episode where a transporter accident caused by an advanced alien intelligence posing as a god left the crew in a malfunctioning holodeck, but Wesley saves the day.
Benson. Remember how I've said for the last few episodes that she seemed to have dialed back the overacting and they were doing a better job writing her? I guess they were just saving all the crap for this week? From the beginning where she sees a hostage situation and her immediate reaction is to worry about the person pointing a gun at someone tied up to a chair to her screwing up yet another hostage situation to acting like evidence is a triviality and killing somebody is OK if you've ever been a victim to the whispering and anguished constipated faces she was horrible throughout.
BenStone. Stop trying to make this a thing. I know he's good looking and you're desperately trying to recreate the Benson/Stabler chemistry, but it's just terrible and forced. Just give it up.

Overall this was garbage. After finally taking off the last few episodes we've crashed back to earth. This was just a misconceived mess from beginning to end and I can't help but feel that we're seeing the creative tension that the show has been struggling with all season rear it's ugly head again. The whole finale seemed to be a debate between those who felt there was nothing wrong with last season (Benson and Rollins sort of) and those who wanted o take it back towards something more resembling the classic formula (Fin and Stone and sometimes Carisi). It seemed to resolve that argument by saying that Mariska's ego cannot be stopped it can only be contained and in the end we're going to try to force it all together somehow and it will result in tears. And afterward our hopeful innocence and desire for some simple goodness will end up dead on the floor caught in the crossfire. To continue the metaphor, both Sgt. Dodds and Stone's sister ended up dead and the fact that this time there was some tactical competence and preparation this time doesn't change that bleak fact, just as the fact that the plot mechanics and grounding in reality were much better handled here doesn't change the fact that we end up in the same place.

Edited May 24, 2018 by wknt3
revised and extended my remarks

[Xeliou66]

About what I expected, 2 hours of nothing but Benson and her preaching with MH’s ego on full display. This show is nothing more than a massive ego trip for Mariska and a wet dream for all of her rich feminist friends. Such utter predictability, who didn’t know that Stone’s sister was going to get killed off or that the male was going to be guilty and the female hostage taker was going to be a victim, women are never guilty of anything in MH’s fantasy world. 

There were a handful of good moments throughout the crap, mainly Stone telling Benson off over and over and not backing down, Fin was awesome as always, Carisi questioning Benson as to how she was so sure about everything, even if it was obvious Benson was going to be right cause she always is, it was still nice to see that someone can question her and that Carisi is a smart detective, also we got to see Olivet which was awesome.

Other than that it was shit, the first half was downright painful, we’ve seen Benson in danger complete with MH’s terrible overacting before numerous times, and I didn’t care, the second half it got somewhat interesting just because of the Stone/Benson conflict and I wasn’t quite sure how things were going to end, but it was still weak.

I felt nothing for Lourdes mainly because the show tried so hard to make me feel for her, they didn’t look into the guy who owned the apartment enough, the guy that died, it would seem like extensive background on him might’ve revealed cartel connections but that was barely talked about, and Benson didn’t seem to give a fuck that she bashed a man’s head in, apparently being a rape victim means you can do anything, and I highly doubt Benson would’ve been so sympathetic if it had been a woman who was killed by Lourdes. 

I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought that it should’ve been Jack McCoy consoling Stone at the end of the episode instead of Benson. Olivet would’ve been better as well, she’s trained to help people cope with grief and she knew Stone’s dad well, why couldn’t it have been her talking to Peter? Everything has to revolve around St Olivia though, even though her and Stone have had a ton of tension between them up until now, he’s suddenly going to break down and cry in her arms. 

I just hope Stone isn’t turned into Barba 2.0 with him making emotional decisions and having an unprofessionally close bond with Benson, please keep him objective and keep the tension between him and Benson. If they try to develop a romance or a “Barson” like bond between them, I will be sick. 

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Pam's death was the equivalent of a helpless puppy getting ran over by a bus.

 

Gratuitous, unnecessary and done for shock value.

 

But NOBODY was shocked.

 

#DoBetterWriters

[QueenMab]

Well....twenty minutes in and WTF am I watching? This pos is already all over the map. I think even my cable doesn't like it. It keeps freezing the screen every so often. So....Benson gets to spend season 20 banging an ADA who's taller ( for once) but about 20 years younger. And for the record....I absolutely DETEST episodes that are just a bunch of nuts and a cop stuck in a room with each other overacting and being morons. It's like the writers wanted to go on vacay and they just throw everybody in a room and......whatever. A half hour in and we have another Benson pukefest. And could Benson get uglier? Just.....big, fat titted, and ugly as a mud fence. The 13 yr old runaway hairdo is just....absurd. I'm sorry but I keep wanting someone to punch her in the head for being an asshole. Jaysus!

[shapeshifter]

I'm just not sure what they were going for here.
I guess they were trying to show how it looks to the cops (not Benson) when a rape and/or assault victim's true account is not believeable.

 

5 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Poor Pam, just when she recognized her brother.

Oh. Right. That is what Stone meant when he said her last word was "Peter." If the sister had been a background character for at least another year, I would've gotten it.

Edited May 24, 2018 by shapeshifter
Typo

[Bexx88]

I can’t believe Stone’s sister actually died. That’s hilarious. When the show does the thing people joke about as an example of comically bad writing, there’s a problem. 

I hope they back off with him next year and have him grow organically as a character instead of another forced personal plot. Ha, who am I kidding?

[QueenMab]

 Benson's only move to comfort a grown ass man is grabbing his head and jamming it into her big boobs like he's a three year old. She sure is touchy feely with men that don't belong to her. 

Best and only scene worth watching....Finn and Carisi standing like the Earp brothers at Tombstone shooting the shit out of the cartel guys. Sweet!

[dttruman]

6 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I suspect that his character was one of the areas where Chernuchin had free reign and Benito Martinez showed what a good actor he was on The Shield, but most of his scenes were actually quality television and it is nice to see a defense attorney who is not a sleazebag or a pushover.

Do use suppose there might be a little spark of controversy here, where there might be a struggle for control of the major plot line now? Maybe Churnuchin will now be given full autonomy on the story line and script approval. I hope if he gets control, Benson gets demoted  and he brings Munch back.  Munch is put in charge of SVU and he soon begins a relationship with Benson. Now that would be payback.

[walnutqueen]

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I guess they were trying to show how it looks to the cops (not Benson) when a rape and/or assault victim's true account is not believeable.

That is the major flaw with Benson or what MH is trying to express. Apparently the cops seem to be just as guilty (or anyone else for that matter) as the rapist if they are objective at first.

6 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

Sorry, my bad.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Stone relocated to NYC to care for his family, Ben  and Pamela 

 

 

Now they're both dead.

 

Tho I enjoy looking at him and the voice, no reason for the guy to stay now.

 

 

:shrugs shoulders: