Disappeared - General Discussion

[mamadrama]

8 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

I like that theory! I just wonder, in this day and age, how that would be accomplished without her leaving a digital record of those communications? They had access to her phone records -- but I suspect that was only text messaging/calls? Are apps like Snapchat and Tinder open to warrants? 

Speaking of her phone, couldn't they tell from where her phone last pinged? They seemed to gloss over that in the show (which isn't surprising as this show frequently glosses over a lot of facts) but they should have been able to determine the last location where the phone signal pinged the nearest tower. 

Yeah, there are holes in that theory. :-) I am just always suspicious any time people start describing the person as being next to perfect. Always makes me think there's more to the story. 

It is interesting that they didn't expand on the pinging. 

I know this is terrible, but her mother's, erm, emotions were almost getting an eyeroll from me. Yes, I know, I am going to hell in a hand basket. 

[Surrealist]

22 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Now, for my "outlandish" theory...She wasn't really into being a LDS member and wasn't nearly as pious and studious as people thought. She used the student visa as a way to get herself into the country and then, after a few weeks/months of laying low, took off for other parts. Could be a cult, guy she met online, etc. I guess my point is that she could have had a whole other life that nobody knew anything about. 

I was thinking something similar: that the visa was some sort of ruse to get her into the US to live a different life.

While I think abduction is a possibility, it's strange that she was last seen on a busy street, but no one noticed anything out of the ordinary. I understand that we don't always notice what's going on around us, but it's still odd to me. However, if Elizabeth had been abducted by a stranger, I'm thinking someone had to see what was going on. 

The uncles seemed OK and genuinely upset by her disappearance, but that doesn't mean one of them didn't have something to do with it. I know polygraphs can be faulty, but I'm leaning away from the stranger abduction theory. Either someone Elizabeth knew well caused her disappearance, or she is off the grid of her own volition.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Surrealist

[Soobs]

I think she was taken by someone she knew a little bit. Enough to trust them and to maybe go somewhere with them but not well enough to know they were trouble. It could have been a creeper from her apartment complex, a guy she worked with or maybe someone else, like a cashier at a mini mart she went to. Although she was 26 which is a little old to fall for that and she seemed used to rebuffing guys.

It did bring me back to being in my 20's, not having a car and living in a city. When they said she walked down a busy street and that was safer I actually think it often works the other way because on busy streets there are often sketchy people just hanging around looking for trouble. I don't think she bailed on her family without sending some type of message. They were in constant contact up until her disappearance. 

[One Tough Cookie]

I'm still interested in the Ray Gricar case.  He was a DA in Penna. and dropped off the face of the earth about 5 years ago.  His car was found, later his computer was found and then the hard drive.  He was last seen at an antique store and then...nothing. I Wiki'd but according to them he was still missing.  Anyone know anything further?

[Kitty Redstone]

I remember that case but haven't heard anything new.  Data recovery technology has advanced a lot in the last few years.  I wonder if the hard drive has been sent out for re-testing?

[spankydoll]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:54 AM, Kitty Redstone said:

I remember that case but haven't heard anything new.  Data recovery technology has advanced a lot in the last few years.  I wonder if the hard drive has been sent out for re-testing?

That is a perfect example of why the families need to keep the pressure on about these unsolved cases. Many, many of the police officers and detectives are devoted but the organization may have to authorize funding  for testing, overtime, etc. I always remember Domenic Dunne saying that staying on his daighter's case was the last busness of her life and that he was going to handle it properly.

[mamadrama]

Some thoughts about this one. 

1. When they said they were getting stipends from the casino, I figured $200 or $300 a month. I was floored to hear that it was up to $10,000! Of course, there's a tribe in Minnesota where the average payout is $83,000 a month. They're all millionaires. No wonder their unemployment rate is 92%. 

2. I immediately thought robbery. When you pick up people at a Hookah bar and start buying multiple vehicles, it's just a recipe for disaster. Let's face it, his new "friends" weren't in it for the Yahtzee marathons. 

3. Then I went to depression. You can have all the money in the world but a hell of a lot of good it does you when your chronic illness makes it impossible to live a normal life. (But I might be bitter. My chronic condition caused me to have a CSF brain leak this week and I've spent most of it in the hospital.)

4. Then I went back to robbery. 

5. Once the other dude was introduced, I started thinking about cult. I definitely don't think "Eli" was the same Elijah, since I don't see Bear hiking up in the mountains. But the cult thing could still apply. Sick kid, few friends, pondering the meaning of life, lots of money...those things would all appeal to a cult. However, they'd want the cash flow to keep moving. Since he hasn't picked up his checks, seems unlikely that it's a cult. 

6. Where was the step dad in all of this? Why was he never interviewed?

7. I ended back on suicide again. Sick, missing his step brother, co-dependent relationship with his mother, feeling bleak about his future, etc.

8. And then fell back on robbery. 

Wherever the poor feller is, I don't think he's breathing. 

[theajw]

5 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Some thoughts about this one. 

1. When they said they were getting stipends from the casino, I figured $200 or $300 a month. I was floored to hear that it was up to $10,000! 

I'm Native American, and my jaw dropped at that part.  I'm happy for my stipends, but they are a fraction of that amount.

I agree with your ultimate conclusion, mamadrama, If only because of his Type 1 Diabetes, I don't think he's alive.

[Chris Knight]

17 hours ago, spankydoll said:

That is a perfect example of why the families need to keep the pressure on about these unsolved cases. Many, many of the police officers and detectives are devoted but the organization may have to authorize funding  for testing, overtime, etc. I always remember Domenic Dunne saying that staying on his daighter's case was the last busness of her life and that he was going to handle it properly.

I have followed the Ray Gricar case for years. It was thought that he had some involvement with the Jerry Sandusky case, like that he had info about the molestations and either was goi g to charge Sandusky or was helping cover it up. Ray's brother had committed suicide in the same area where Ray' s car was found.

 

I also was shocked at the monthly stipend Bear received. Type 1 diabetes is terrible. I think some acquaintances heard about his $ and killed him for it, carried him out in his sheets and took the TV on their way out. His roommates may not be guilty themselves but I bet they have more than a hunch on who the perps were.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm thinking Bear was murdered and dumped in those mountains. No one wanders off to commit suicide and takes their flat screen with them for comfort. 

Not sure what to think about the other boy, Sky, but I fear he met a deadly end, too. New, out-of-nowhere "rich" friends who suddenly want to take him on trips around the world? And he leaves his ID and bank card at home but takes a flashlight and toilet paper? Yeah, no. Did he leave his cell phone, too? If not, it might have been nice if ID added some info about where his phone last pinged. 

I don't buy the cult theory. I'm not sure that any cult actively kidnaps people and forces them to join. Don't they usually just prevent people from leaving it?

[mamadrama]

16 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

 

I don't buy the cult theory. I'm not sure that any cult actively kidnaps people and forces them to join. Don't they usually just prevent people from leaving it?

Different cults do different things. They wouldn't have "kidnapped" him, per se, but they could have brainwashed him by now. It's not a crazy idea to think that he might be living up in the mountains right now, raising goats and children. :-)

I had an experience with a cult once. Part of the big Boston Church (an actual cult, not a legitimate church in Boston). The had just opened a chapter in my college city and were actively recruiting  students across town. Several universities banned them. I was 18, a freshman in a big city, and hadn't yet made any friends. I worked for a historical home and we hosted events in the evening. One evening a young, well-dressed, group of people came to a piano concert. I was working the gift shop and we all got to chatting. They didn't invite me to their church-they invited me for coffee. The idea of hanging out with someone-anyone-was appealing.  I gave them my number. They called incessantly. Three, sometimes four times a day, pestering me to meet them. Sent me little "how are you" cards at work. "Checked in" to make sure I was "okay." Sent me a care package. And I will admit, although part of me thought they were creepy, the other part liked the attention. They were educated, young professionals. One day, though, I Googled their church. That's when I found out about the cult. I tried ignoring them but they wouldn't leave me alone. I actually started freaking out and quit answering my phone and opening my email account. I totally felt like I was being stalked. These kinds of people prey on lonely, isolated, people who are not feeling very confident. They didn't stop until I was hosting a study group in my room one night and they called. I quickly filled the other students in on what was going on and one of the guys answered and told them off. They didn't call again. (Useless trivia: the guy that told them off went on to become one of country music's biggest stars. Ha ha.)

[Yokosmom]

Quote

I think she was taken by someone she knew a little bit. Enough to trust them and to maybe go somewhere with them but not well enough to know they were trouble. It could have been a creeper from her apartment complex, a guy she worked with or maybe someone else, like a cashier at a mini mart she went to. Although she was 26 which is a little old to fall for that and she seemed used to rebuffing guys.

Yes,  I think that she was grabbed by someone, though not necessarily someone she knew.  She seemed to be very cautious and careful of who she associated with (re first roommates).  She was a very beautiful girl and was probably walking alone.

Quote

I'm still interested in the Ray Gricar case.  He was a DA in Penna. and dropped off the face of the earth about 5 years ago.  His car was found, later his computer was found and then the hard drive.  He was last seen at an antique store and then...nothing. I Wiki'd but according to them he was still missing.  Anyone know anything further?

It's actually been nearly 12 years! I'd go with suicide, but that doesn't explain the whole laptop scenario.  The tie with the Paterno case seems far fetched, but that would explain the laptop.  Wasn't there some sighting of Gricar in Eastern Europe fairly early on, or am I getting that mixed up with another case?

Re Bear and Sky--I think Bear was definitely murdered by one of his "friends".   He was young, sickly, frail, and obviously had a lot of money.  He wasn't old enough or savvy enough to know that he should have been more circumspect about his income.  Regarding Sky, he is probably also dead--someone was pulling a con on him, that's for sure.  I suppose that there is a chance that he's with a cult somewhere, but I really fear that he fell in with the type of people who may have just killed him for kicks.  Bear was physically weak and Sky was apparently having some emotional problems, so they were both vulnerable.

[snowblossom2]

5 hours ago, mamadrama said:

Different cults do different things. They wouldn't have "kidnapped" him, per se, but they could have brainwashed him by now. It's not a crazy idea to think that he might be living up in the mountains right now, raising goats and children. :-)

I had an experience with a cult once. Part of the big Boston Church (an actual cult, not a legitimate church in Boston). The had just opened a chapter in my college city and were actively recruiting  students across town. Several universities banned them. I was 18, a freshman in a big city, and hadn't yet made any friends. I worked for a historical home and we hosted events in the evening. One evening a young, well-dressed, group of people came to a piano concert. I was working the gift shop and we all got to chatting. They didn't invite me to their church-they invited me for coffee. The idea of hanging out with someone-anyone-was appealing.  I gave them my number. They called incessantly. Three, sometimes four times a day, pestering me to meet them. Sent me little "how are you" cards at work. "Checked in" to make sure I was "okay." Sent me a care package. And I will admit, although part of me thought they were creepy, the other part liked the attention. They were educated, young professionals. One day, though, I Googled their church. That's when I found out about the cult. I tried ignoring them but they wouldn't leave me alone. I actually started freaking out and quit answering my phone and opening my email account. I totally felt like I was being stalked. These kinds of people prey on lonely, isolated, people who are not feeling very confident. They didn't stop until I was hosting a study group in my room one night and they called. I quickly filled the other students in on what was going on and one of the guys answered and told them off. They didn't call again. (Useless trivia: the guy that told them off went on to become one of country music's biggest stars. Ha ha.)

Mind if I ask if it was the ICOC?

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, snowblossom2 said:

Mind if I ask if it was the ICOC?

Yes, it is a branch of that. Which was initially confusing because the "regular" COC is a legitimate denomination of the Christian church and has churches in towns all over the country. This cult, however, has nothing to do with that one. 

[Josette]

So, Robert Jason Owens, a suspect in Zebb Quinn's disappearance in 2001, has been sentenced in the murders  Owens committed in 2015. 

Zebb Quinn was featured in the episode Just a Nice Guy.  Owens is the "friend" who told him about a car for sale.

[North of Eden]

Getting back to the KORTNE episode...a few things bothered me.

The narration seemed to imply that if a man is still single at 44 he is somehow sinister and reading between the lines likely makes them someone one prone to be the kidnapper, rapist and murderer of young women.

Kortne herself....her first reaction upon her boyfriend going to jail is not to go down and visit him but to party on in Harrisburg into the wee hours...initiated by calling up a friend who you KNOW is carrying a torch for you.

Said friend...yeah, sure...he just went to sleep when he was at long last alone with her in her apartment when there was ZERO chance of her boyfriend coming home. This guy is the doer if I ever saw one.

I will admit the hippie friend at the dog grooming place was somewhat charming.

I do want to give credit where its due and that's to ID channel. If anyone here use to frequent the DISAPPEARD boards (how I miss them) at IMDB.. they know the reaction last season was almost universal to the change in narrators as not being a good thing. I believe that someone from there read the boards and made a move to reinstate the eerily appropriate narrator from previous season back in place. One appreciates when the powers that be actually listen to what the fans want.

Edited April 28, 2017 by North of Eden

[walnutqueen]

On 4/28/2017 at 4:40 AM, Josette said:

So, Robert Jason Owens, a suspect in Zebb Quinn's disappearance in 2001, has been sentenced in the murders  Owens committed in 2015. 

Zebb Quinn was featured in the episode Just a Nice Guy.  Owens is the "friend" who told him about a car for sale.

I KNEW IT!!!  Didn't we all call it Oh so long ago?  :-)

 

On 4/28/2017 at 9:11 AM, North of Eden said:

Getting back to the KORTNE episode...a few things bothered me.

The narration seemed to imply that if a man is still single at 44 he is somehow sinister and reading between the lines likely makes them someone one prone to be the kidnapper, rapist and murderer of young women.

Kortne herself....her first reaction upon her boyfriend going to jail is not to go down and visit him but to party on in Harrisburg into the wee hours...initiated by calling up a friend who you KNOW is carrying a torch for you.

Said friend...yeah, sure...he just went to sleep when he was at long last alone with her in her apartment when there was ZERO chance of her boyfriend coming home. This guy is the doer if I ever saw one.

I will admit the hippie friend at the dog grooming place was somewhat charming.

I do want to give credit where its due and that's to ID channel. If anyone here use to frequent the DISAPPEARD boards (how I miss them) at IMDB.. they know the reaction last season was almost universal to the change in narrators as not being a good thing. I believe that someone from there read the boards and made a move to reinstate the eerily appropriate narrator from previous season back in place. One appreciates when the powers that be actually listen to what the fans want.

First of all, just the spelling of "KORTNE" makes me want to grind my teeth.  As does the shade thrown at loner older losers like me, just because ...  :-)

The recent influx of IMDB refugees is mostly a good thing, especially on the less frequented forums.  But I've just gotta say, it has made it impossible for me to keep up with the eleventy billion pages of posts on the Real Housewives forums - probably a very good thing, for me, at least.  :-D

[mamadrama]

So how do we feel about the Zoe Campos case? I have a bad feeling regarding her whereabouts. I definitely don't think she's alive. I also think that the PI is going down a deadend street with the motel stuff. I am sure lots of young women have a similar look to her so I am not sold on her being seen at the motel that night. My gut is to go with the detective and the dog. I think she went to the friend's house and he killed her. I also wondered if perhaps she called her mom's ex boyfriend because she was in trouble and was reaching out to him for help. 

[Josette]

I agree with the cop, too.  The most likely scenario is the acquaintance made a pass, she resisted, and it turned violent.  Why would someone invite a person over to smoke pot if they had no pot to smoke?  He just wanted a chance to get her alone.

[tobeannounced]

I agree. If we go by all the other zillion murders we've seen on these shows, dude made a pass, she resisted, things got nasty. I think that's what happened with Kortney too (or whatever hideous spelling it is).

Edited May 2, 2017 by tobeannounced

[mamadrama]

I belong to Websleuths and we're currently researching and speculating the hell out of the Abby Williams/Libby German case. People are theorizing everything from devil worshipping to catfishing. In my experience when it comes to researching crimes like that, and the ones on "Disappeared", I have found that the simplest explanation is usually the "right" one. Do you all remember the McStay case? People thought they'd taken off for Mexico, gotten mixed up in a drug cartel, gone into witness protection, etc. In the end, it was his business partner that killed them-the same partner that had been giving all the "Dateline" and 20/20 interviews. And then there was the "Disappeared" episode of the Jamison family (still my favorite case). People talked about alien abduction, cult activity, etc. They finally found their bodies a few years later just a mile from their truck. It was almost certainly a murder/suicide, which is what LE suspected from the start. 

[chenoa333]

Who DOESN'T remember the McStays! Is that shit devil Chase Merritt still on trial? I belong to websleuths too but haven't been on there for a long time. I want to go back there someday SOON to read that Chase is dead or in prison or hell. 

And yes, sometimes the simplest explanation is the right one but having solid proof isn't always easy to come by. Anyway, thanks for mentioning the Abby/Libby case.. Sounds fascinating!

Edited May 5, 2017 by chenoa333

[Guest]

Poor Zoe Campos. She's definitely not alive. Creepy Facebook dude most likely did it though I did side eye the mother's ex boyfriend's sketchy behavior and failed polygraph results. 

And I wish the police would stop painting people, especially women, who smoke pot as people who engage in "bad behavior" or whatever poorly worded characterization they made about Zoe at that press conference. It's pot and it's not a big deal. (And I say this as a non-pot smoker.) 

[peachybean]

Seriously. They would never refer to a guy who is a casual pot smoker as engaging in "risky behavior". She was at risk by being a cute and very young woman 

[tobeannounced]

On 5/3/2017 at 0:58 AM, mamadrama said:

I belong to Websleuths and we're currently researching and speculating the hell out of the Abby Williams/Libby German case. People are theorizing everything from devil worshipping to catfishing. In my experience when it comes to researching crimes like that, and the ones on "Disappeared", I have found that the simplest explanation is usually the "right" one. Do you all remember the McStay case? People thought they'd taken off for Mexico, gotten mixed up in a drug cartel, gone into witness protection, etc. In the end, it was his business partner that killed them-the same partner that had been giving all the "Dateline" and 20/20 interviews. And then there was the "Disappeared" episode of the Jamison family (still my favorite case). People talked about alien abduction, cult activity, etc. They finally found their bodies a few years later just a mile from their truck. It was almost certainly a murder/suicide, which is what LE suspected from the start. 

I didn't know they had found the Jamisons. I'll have to read up on that, thanks! And off to google the Abby/Libby case and Websleuths!

Edited May 6, 2017 by tobeannounced

[mamadrama]

On 5/4/2017 at 11:45 PM, Giant Misfit said:

 

And I wish the police would stop painting people, especially women, who smoke pot as people who engage in "bad behavior" or whatever poorly worded characterization they made about Zoe at that press conference. It's pot and it's not a big deal. (And I say this as a non-pot smoker.) 

I agree. Not to mention that it is even legal in many places...

So...Katelin Akens. That one was obvious before the episode had even finished. 

[stephinmn]

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

I agree. Not to mention that it is even legal in many places...

So...Katelin Akens. That one was obvious before the episode had even finished. 

Yeah, but that is pretty perverted if her stepdad, who had known her since she was a freaking TODDLER, killed her. 

[mamadrama]

16 minutes ago, stephinmn said:

Yeah, but that is pretty perverted if her stepdad, who had known her since she was a freaking TODDLER, killed her. 

And yet it happens. Look at all the child molestation cases out there... :-( 

[Surrealist]

This case was obvious. I'm not sure if the police will ever get anything out of the stepfather though. I feel terrible for the mom.

[Guest]

23 hours ago, mamadrama said:

So...Katelin Akens. That one was obvious before the episode had even finished. 

Completely obvious. I just don't understand how her mother isn't exacting some kind of vengeance on his ass on a daily basis. I'm betting he had something to do with the murder of the other girl as well. 

The only thing curious to me is why would he remove all her clothes and her high school diploma from the luggage and leave behind her ID and credit cards?  

[mamadrama]

7 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Completely obvious. I just don't understand how her mother isn't exacting some kind of vengeance on his ass on a daily basis. I'm betting he had something to do with the murder of the other girl as well. 

The only thing curious to me is why would he remove all her clothes and her high school diploma from the luggage and leave behind her ID and credit cards?  

I bet the only reason they fought to be on "Disappeared" was to get more heat on the step-dad. 

So I only have my "Internet Detective" license, but my conjecture is that the reason he took the things out of her suitcase is either because:

a) He wanted "souvenirs" of hers and he kept those things as reminders (yet dumped the suitcase and ID cards themselves because he ultimately wanted someone to find it and know that she's probably dead) 

or

b) the suitcase was empty to begin with

 

I realize that "B" is a little weird but let's say, for the sake of argument, that she really HAD made other plans to take off and go somewhere else for awhile. Maybe the suitcase was a ruse and she planned on dumping it someplace along the way. (Maybe she'd met someone online and had already made arrangements for clothes, toiletries, etc.). Her leaving with a packed bag was just a ruse. Step dad may not have ever looked in the suitcase when he dumped it. 

I don't think that happened, but it's an idea I have. It could also mean that the step dad isn't responsible at all and that Kate really did run off with someone and dumped the suitcase herself. But I am not sold on that. I totally believe the step dad killed her. And probably others. 

One more thing, and I can't believe I am even going to say this because it is NOT something I normally believe...

Is it possible that she wasn't a lesbian or bisexual? I totally believe that people are born that way and it's not something that can be changed. However, in this particular situation, I can also see how someone growing up under abuse (especially sexual abuse) might find themselves withdrawing from the opposite sex and finding comfort in the same sex (especially a friend) and perhaps even confusing that sense of security, loyalty, and comfort for "love." I realize that abuse was never brought up in this episode, but it's totally there in the narrative I've created in my own head. Perhaps once she got out to Arizona and away from her home and influences from the past she started "finding herself" and realized that she needed to reevaluate her feelings. That could have been why she cheated on her fiancee with the other couple. Maybe a fight broke out with the step dad when she brought up the past and blamed him for what was currently going on in her life. 

Pure speculation on my part, of course. Hell, I am a mystery writer. This shit is kind of what I do. :-) I definitely believe in Occam's Razor, though. The simple answer is usually the right one. The last person to see her lied about where he was at the time of her disappearance and lied about his alibi (work). He had opportunity and time. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I don't think that happened, but it's an idea I have. It could also mean that the step dad isn't responsible at all and that Kate really did run off with someone and dumped the suitcase herself.

I considered that as well -- especially when they mentioned the missing clothes and diploma. I thought it could possibly be more likely because she felt so much guilt over her liaison with the other couple that she just wanted to run away and hide. What mostly sways me against this scenario is money. Katelin had absolutely no way of earning any sort of meaningful income that allow her to just "disappear." She only had a high school diploma, no real job skills, and certainly not enough savvy to establish a whole new identity for herself absent a driver's license and credit cards.

I also thought the text to her fiancee was odd -- how could the step dad have known about the hook up? I seriously doubt Katelin would be confessing something so personal about her sexual life -- especially to her father figure who'd be way more likely to judge than her mother.  

That said, my best guess is that that the step dad went through her phone when she wasn't looking and saw the details of that night and, that, coupled with her engagement to another woman, sent him off into some sex-shaming/homophobic rage and he killed her. 

[Christina]

As of May 7, 2017, the second set of remains have not been identified, but Kara's family is sure it is her, and the police say it will be another month.

I decided to look for an update on her before posting the update on Satara, and found that while searching for Runion, two other bodies were found in the area, and both are considered homicides. 21-year-old Brandon Herring and 19-year-old Dante Jamal Jefferson. There is no mention of a suspect, or if it is related to Kara or Jessica, but it's interesting that they were all found in the same area. There hasn't been any arrests in any of the cases.

Satara Stratton, who was living as Satara Silver, was the girl who had been held as a sex slave in Los Angeles. Her story was kind of odd in that she took no responsibility for her drug use and whether or not she was actually held against her will was disputed. Her mom tried to get the police to look for her in LA, but they told her that Satara was missing intentionally since she failed her drug tests. Her story was told in Season 5, Episode 6 titled City of Angels.

She was found dead on February 4, 2017 of a drug overdose, but her mother and friends are insisting it is a homicide. There doesn't seem to be any further action being taking about her death, so I'm guessing the police and prosecutor are going by the medical examination.

[peacockblue]

I know I'm shallower than a wading pool, but that Sheriff that was first on the Jamison case was so hot hot hot 

[azshadowwalker]

On 5/5/2017 at 6:06 PM, tobeannounced said:

I didn't know they had found the Jamisons. I'll have to read up on that, thanks! And off to google the Abby/Libby case and Websleuths!

Websleuths is interesting from a true crime standpoint. All the information about almost every crime ever. It can be kind of batshit at times, though. (Yes, I post there, but I find some of the "sleuthing" creepy and unreasonable. )

[mamadrama]

On 5/15/2017 at 6:15 PM, peacockblue said:

I know I'm shallower than a wading pool, but that Sheriff that was first on the Jamison case was so hot hot hot 

Oh hell yeah. He even has a hot name, straight out of a bodice ripper. Israel Beauchamp. 

[mamadrama]

54 minutes ago, azshadowwalker said:

Websleuths is interesting from a true crime standpoint. All the information about almost every crime ever. It can be kind of batshit at times, though. (Yes, I post there, but I find some of the "sleuthing" creepy and unreasonable. )

And yet the rules about what we can and cannot talk about are also hindering at the same time. No talking about it unless it's been written about in mainstream media means that we're missing out on a lot of things being said elsewhere. Of course, that rule at least keeps out the REALLY bad sleuthing and defamation that comes with other sites. 

[azshadowwalker]

14 hours ago, mamadrama said:

And yet the rules about what we can and cannot talk about are also hindering at the same time. No talking about it unless it's been written about in mainstream media means that we're missing out on a lot of things being said elsewhere. Of course, that rule at least keeps out the REALLY bad sleuthing and defamation that comes with other sites. 

They are on top of deleting rumor and gossip. Every time I see a case on Disappeared or another show that I am unfamiliar with, I head to Websleuths for background. Just stay out of the Johnny Gosch threads....

[Christina]

I left Websleuths back when there was a major dust up with the moderators because the owner/head honcho woman was vile throughout it, many moderators left and I decided to go, also. I do check every once in awhile, but am no longer a posting member. Not allowing rumors seems to be a responsible way to keep some control of the threads, but also causes some issues to not be thoroughly discussed and considered.

Kortne Stoffer, for example. Her disappearance was likely the result of the drug dealers after the argument in the bar with one of them. The rumor is that the argument was that she threatened to turn them in to get her boyfriend released from jail. Without that, the friend that stayed over is the number one suspect, even though the police say they cleared him and he passed a polygraph (which I find to be worthless and give no credence to, ever). No rumors means people would be trashing the friend online instead, and he is likely not involved and was passed out in a drug and alcohol induced coma when she disappeared. I didn't check Websleuths about it, so I don't know what was actually said in relation to Kortne's case, just using it as an example.

One of my favorite Disappeared episodes is on tomorrow morning at 8:00 a.m. EST, Terrance Williams was arrested by Deputy Sheriff Steve Calkins and disappeared. I won't spoil the story for anyone who hasn't seen it because it was well told in the episode. It's like the Joey Lynn Offutt case, if it's on, I must watch it.

[Christina]

Years ago, on some site that I've long since forgotten, I suggested that Zachary Bernhardt's mother's behavior was consistent with drug use, which is why she had been evicted a dozen times since his birth, was out wandering around at 4:00 a.m., and the police didn't think she was completely truthful. Someone claiming to have been her close friend yelled at me and said that people like me saying mean comments is why she had to legally change her name and move. She demanded that I retract my statement and apologize to a woman that she admitted she no longer had contact with. I refused then and am stating it again now. His mom's behavior is consistent with drug use.

If she typically wandered around at night and left her door unlocked, it's possible that a shady neighbor could have grabbed him. It's also possible that he woke up, didn't find her, and went in search of her, becoming easy prey for a predator. Nothing can be ruled out, but I can't get past Mom in this situation, and time didn't change that any. Her legally changing her name to get away from the harassment just floors me. You have parents of missing children who don't move just in case their child remembers the address, and she took legal action to make her harder to locate? Shady and suspicious. Then, her family took part in trying to keep his case in the media, and she avoided it because of harassment. Who knows when he actually disappeared and where she was when it happened? 

[azshadowwalker]

I am of two minds about Zack's mother. The evictions don't concern me. I have lived below poverty level almost my entire adult life. It happens. Most people don't understand how difficult it is to make ends meet under such circumstances. 

I can also see her feeling that she's told her story to the cops already several times, and has nothing more that she can offer. The media and the cops are going to make this about her, so she's going to protect herself. 

I also have worked nights, so I have no problem with her doing random things at night to stay on schedule. Trying to do otherwise almost killed me, literally. 

That said, as with Macin Smith's dad, it just feels wrong when a kid goes missing, and a parent doesn't take part in the production of the Disappeared episode. 

[mamadrama]

On 5/21/2017 at 2:53 PM, azshadowwalker said:

They are on top of deleting rumor and gossip. Every time I see a case on Disappeared or another show that I am unfamiliar with, I head to Websleuths for background. Just stay out of the Johnny Gosch threads....

I used to be a moderator on Websleuths. What could stay and what had to be deleted wad totally random and dependent upon mood of those in charge (even as a mod I had little control). I quit being a mod for the reason @Christina listed above, although I am still a verified insider on 2 cases.

So. Zachary. *sigh* I totally suspect the mother. My hinky meter was through the roof. I believe there was an accidental death and that she showered to remove burial evidence. I can't believe that in that random "15 minutes" timeframe at 4am, someone just happened upon her apartment and abducted him. I think the neighbor that saw her in the car was legit. I have a Casey Anthony feel about this one.

Who moves to the other side of the country and changes their name when their child is still missing? 

[azshadowwalker]

Everyone knows her new name. It's not like she can't be found. She just doesn't show up in searches connected to the case if she's looking for work. However, as Zack's grandmother mentioned, even parts of the family suspect her. 

If it was a stranger abduction, I think it's more likely that he went outside, trying to find his mom, and someone happened across him. Maybe she actually left the complex in her car, and feels guilty, as she should. We have a very similar case here in Arizona. Jesse Wilson. Disappeared in the night, mother didn't even show up to custody hearings for her other kids. But he had a known tendency to sneak out, even as a 7yo.

Edited May 22, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[mamadrama]

5 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

Everyone knows her new name. It's not like she can't be found. She just doesn't show up in searches connected to the case if she's looking for work. However, as Zack's grandmother mentioned, even parts of the family suspect her. 

If it was a stranger abduction, I think it's more likely that he went outside, trying to find his mom, and someone happened across him. Maybe she actually left the complex in her car, and feels guilty, as she should. We have a very similar case here in Arizona. Jesse Wilson. Disappeared in the night, mother didn't even show up to custody hearings for her other kids. But he had a known tendency to sneak out, even as a 7yo.

There is always that chance that he wandered out and someone took him. I do think, in that case, that she was gone for longer than she said.

[Surrealist]

On 5/23/2017 at 0:29 AM, mamadrama said:

There is always that chance that he wandered out and someone took him. I do think, in that case, that she was gone for longer than she said.

I agree. Part of me thinks the mom is responsible or knows who is, but isn't saying anything. It's difficult to understand why she'd legally change her name while she's looking for her son. 

The other part of me thinks it's entirely possible that someone had been watching the mom and Zachary and waited for the right moment to kidnap him. 

I still don't understand why she went swimming, while fully clothed, at that hour of morning. That strikes me as odd. Not to mention leaving her apartment door unlocked while she was away. That feels like asking for trouble.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Surrealist

[KellsBells]

I just watched the Disappeared episode about Zack and I'm with those who think the mother did it for a number of reasons, many of which have already been enumerated here: Her moving away and changing her name (yes, I know she felt she was being harassed, but seriously? You suck it up and deal and stay put so your kid knows where you are); her weird behavior in the middle of the night (going swimming when she doesn't even swim?), not being involved in the Disappeared episode, which may be her last, best chance for some answers. 

In addition to all that, I happen to live in (near, actually) an area with a LOT of meth. In the video where she was showing the cops the timeline, that girl looked like the meth heads around here -- hollow-eyed, bad complexion, etc. Not like she was high at the moment (which I've also seen a lot of), but like she has a habit. 

Regardless, my heart went out to the aunt and grandma, their anguish was very real. 

[Sammich]

I live fairly close to where this happened.  I believe the mom either killed Zachary, or she is guilty of allowing him to be kidnapped with her carelessness.  I don't think she was only gone for 15 minutes, nor do I think she left the door unlocked and exposed so someone could walk in and steal items.  I think Zach is the one who left the door unlocked when he went looking for his mom after she was gone for so long.  There should have been more delving into the witness who claimed to see the mom leave in her car, which is what I think happened.  I can't imagine anyone leaving a door unlocked and opened at that time of night, even without a child involved.  Most crimes are committed in the middle of the night.   I guess there isn't any way to prove that the mom even went swimming since she then took a shower.  I think she used this alibi to explain why she took a shower.  

I also feel so bad for the aunt and grandmother.  I hope one day there will be closure in this case.  

[88Keys]

On 5/20/2017 at 10:25 PM, azshadowwalker said:

Websleuths is interesting from a true crime standpoint. All the information about almost every crime ever. It can be kind of batshit at times, though. (Yes, I post there, but I find some of the "sleuthing" creepy and unreasonable. )

The problem is, you have to wade through so much garbage to get to thr real info.  Too many posts that just say "bump" or "where are you?"  Also, I feel like many of the WS posters think they are real detectives who are really going to solve these cases.  I mean, I love to discuss true crime, too, but I have no allusions that it's actually going to change anything.

On 5/22/2017 at 4:14 PM, mamadrama said:

I used to be a moderator on Websleuths. What could stay and what had to be deleted wad totally random and dependent upon mood of those in charge (eare ven as a mod I had little control). I quit being a mod for the reason @Christina listed above, although I am still a verified insider on 2 cases.

So. Zachary. *sigh* I totally suspect the mother. My hinky meter was through the roof. I believe there was an accidental death and that she showered to remove burial evidence. I can't believe that in that random "15 minutes" timeframe at 4am, someone just happened upon her apartment and abducted him. I think the neighbor that saw her in the car was legit. I have a Casey Anthony feel about this one.

Who moves to the other side of the country and changes their name when their child is still missing? 

Oooooh!  I don't suppose you would be willing to spill the beans on their verification process, would you?  How do they confirm their verified insiders?  I'd love to know, especially since I think one on a certain  high profile case is full of crap.

Zachary- I think his mom's bizarre story about taking an impromptu swim is the key.  I think she left, maybe for drugs or a hookup.  Zachary drowned in the pool.  She found him and hid his body.  She made up the story about the swim to explain why her clothes were wet and had chlorine on them.

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, 88Keys said:

The problem is, you have to wade through so much garbage to get to thr real info.  Too many posts that just say "bump" or "where are you?"  Also, I feel like many of the WS posters think they are real detectives who are really going to solve these cases.  I mean, I love to discuss true crime, too, but I have no allusions that it's actually going to change anything.

Oooooh!  I don't suppose you would be willing to spill the beans on their verification process, would you?  How do they confirm their verified insiders?  I'd love to know, especially since I think one on a certain  high profile case is full of crap.

Zachary- I think his mom's bizarre story about taking an impromptu swim is the key.  I think she left, maybe for drugs or a hookup.  Zachary drowned in the pool.  She found him and hid his body.  She made up the story about the swim to explain why her clothes were wet and had chlorine on them.

The main problem that I see with WS now is that we are ONLY allowed to discuss information as released by mainstream media (MSM). While I understand the strategy (it weeds out rumors that have not been verified) it also makes for a very limited sleuthing experience. There is a fine line between allowing social media sleuthing and cyberstalking. There are FB groups, for instance, that take it waaayyy too far and it gets downright scary. However, in some cases family members (as in parents) are making social media updates and even writing blog entries about what's going on but we are not allowed to discuss those. In leads to pages and pages of discussion about issues that could have been cleared up weeks, days, or months before. For instance, there are more than 3,000 posts on a popular case right now and I would say a good 400 of them are about a particular cell phone and whether it's been recovered. People are still speculating about it; I see at least a dozen posts a day. The victim's mother has answered that question on SM but we can't even gently nudge people to look at her post in a vague way. 

Verified insiders must send information showing that they are either related to the family or that they live in that town. It usually consists of a photo ID with address and then another form of proof of residence. If the person claims to have inside knowledge on the case in terms of law enforcement then they have to show that they are either related to an officer (and, in that case, the officer must be verified) or the family members. Send me a PM and I can give you a clearer answer. :-)

It's interesting that you mention the swimming pool. My first instinct was also that the death was pool related. Saying that she jumped into the pool, fully clothed and without a towel, was just so random. It seems odd that she would just make that up so I believe that part of the story IS true. I could also see her leaving the apartment for a walk, a drug run, or whatever, and him either going out to look for her or to go for a swim and then drowning. She then jumps into the pool to get him out. I wonder if her wet clothing was ever checked for chlorine, to at least verify that aspect of the story. 

[Josette]

In the episode, they mentioned the mother had been online that night.  I presume the police checked her online activity to verify the times.  Her whole story is weird.

A lot about Zachary's upbringing and Leah Hackett's life was left out of the episode.  She is definitely not a reliable person and was no stranger to lying.  The more I learn about her, the more I suspect her.

Police: Boy's mother knows more

As far as her name change, though, it seems like she picked up the name Hanson when she married.  She married, divorced, and then married a second man within two years of her son's disappearance.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Josette
added info