Disappeared - General Discussion

[Jordan61]

11 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

On the note of creepy predators, too, really glad that people who've had a history of rape and inappropriate interactions with children Tabitha's age can get out of jail after such a short time, or only get probation, or whatever. That's so comforting :/. I know that one guy's sister claimed he was with her at the time Tabitha was kidnapped, but we've seen many stories where family members will cover for somebody and claim an alibi only for it to be proven false, so... I don't know if that's what happened here, but it's worth keeping in mind. 

Thank you, I forgot about that. I said the same to my husband, just because she SAYS he was there doesn't make it so.

[Hellohappylife]

This was heartbreaking to watch.(Well they all are)  I was completely shocked & then quickly pissed off how the police treated this Case at first initially as a run away.she’s 13,she’s a Child!! Even if she did runaway  that’s still young. Running away at 13 vs a kid running away at 16,17 is very different.  Nothing about Tabitha’s last days/moments indicated that at all! She was a momma’s girl & her mother  said tabitha would sleep with her every night because she wanted to be close & Her mother described her by saying even though Tabitha was 13 she emotionally acted more like an 8 year old. That does not sound like a girl who runs away. She was taken I believe. 

Did the school not Contact the parents ,regarding tabitha not showing up for class? They only found out 9 hours later that she never made it to school.  I was 11 when Tabitha went missing at 13 & my school was very strict on contacting parents after Teachers gave the morning report for attendance, just to make sure everyone got to school safe.

If they did not then wow the School & the Police department really dropped the ball here. I’m never one to blame police officers or schools but if they acted differently I wonder if the outcome would have been different.... 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Hellohappylife

[Annber03]

23 minutes ago, Hellohappylife said:

Did the school not Contact the parents ,regarding tabitha not showing up for class? They only found out 9 hours later that she never made it to school.  I was 11 when Tabitha went missing at 13 & my school was very strict on contacting parents after Teachers gave the morning report for attendance, just to make sure everyone got to school safe.

Yes! That caught my ear odd, too. I was like, "...they're just now telling her mom that she hadn't been in school that day?"

[Grumpbump]

I don't have children but the thing I just can't ever get past with this show and the stories,  is how do these parents carry on.   If my cat were missing I would be devastated but your 13, 15, 16- year old?   I honestly don't know how they have the strength.   Watching Tabitha's story and hearing the date 2003, my god 15 years ago,  she just never came home.   I still watch but it's so hard to sleep afterwards. 

[tobeannounced]

4 hours ago, Grumpbump said:

I don't have children but the thing I just can't ever get past with this show and the stories,  is how do these parents carry on.   If my cat were missing I would be devastated but your 13, 15, 16- year old?   I honestly don't know how they have the strength.   Watching Tabitha's story and hearing the date 2003, my god 15 years ago,  she just never came home.   I still watch but it's so hard to sleep afterwards. 

I have teenagers and was thinking the same thing - how do they go on??? I really wish Disappeared would stick to the older people who have disappeared because these cases just hit too close to home and the odds are almost certain they left against their will and are not alive.

ETA: I was thinking about this case some more, and I'm kind of disturbed by the fact that Tabitha slept at the bottom of her parents' bed every night and was compared to an 8-year-old emotionally. I'm wondering if there was some abuse going on.

Also, I think she certainly must have known and trusted the person she got in the car with. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by tobeannounced

[JaggedLilPill]

On ‎5‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 8:16 AM, tobeannounced said:

Kind of reminds me of the woman who disappeared off the cruise ship boat and one of the guys investigating the case ripped off the family for quite a bit of money with his scam of finding their daughter.

Amy Bradley, and I know. I just watched her Disappeared episode and people like that and now possibly the PI in the Ali case make me enraged. You have to be a special kind of low life to take advantage of parents and families who are desperate to find their kids.

 

6 hours ago, Grumpbump said:

I don't have children but the thing I just can't ever get past with this show and the stories,  is how do these parents carry on.   If my cat were missing I would be devastated but your 13, 15, 16- year old?   I honestly don't know how they have the strength.   Watching Tabitha's story and hearing the date 2003, my god 15 years ago,  she just never came home.   I still watch but it's so hard to sleep afterwards. 

Right there with you. For me, the hardest part is the not knowing. I sit here thinking most of these people are probably dead, but even I hold out hope that they are alive so I can't imagine what the families go through. Such agony.

 

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

On the note of creepy predators, too, really glad that people who've had a history of rape and inappropriate interactions with children Tabitha's age can get out of jail after such a short time, or only get probation, or whatever. That's so comforting :/.

WTF?? This. This this this. Wasn't there just a guy on the news who raped a neighbor who was a child and got like 90 days probation or house arrest. Something ridiculous like that.

 

14 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I just...I don't understand how some police forces don't take the disappearance of children under 18 more seriously right from the get-go. All these delays and "let's wait and see what happens" situations do is take away precious valuable time that could help save the kid, and then here the families are, over a decade later, still waiting for any sort of answers. It's bizarre. 

Mm-hmm. Agreed. I'd also argue the 48 hour rule when it comes to adults is wasting precious time. I get it, that an adult is able to disappear and do what they want, but the 48 hour window is always critical and even then, I've seen episodes where families and friends have to jump through hoops to declare person X missing. So, it's infuriating when it happens with minors.

[GoldenGirl90]

I don't have children but the cases involving missing children are particularly more heartbreaking to me than missing adults. Of course they're all sad but something about missing children... and then when they release the age-progressed photos... I don't know, the combination of all that just pulls on your heartstrings much more than missing adults.

I echo the sentiments expressed here already about Tabitha Tuders' fate: she was more than likely abducted and murdered. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Alexis2291

[Hellohappylife]

5 hours ago, tobeannounced said:

ETA: I was thinking about this case some more, and I'm kind of disturbed by the fact that Tabitha slept at the bottom of her parents' bed every night and was compared to an 8-year-old emotionally. I'm wondering if there was some abuse going on.

While having kids with that kind of behavior could be a clue or sign of Abuse, it is not always the case. Some kids are just really attached to their parents. I grew up always going to my parents room every night, to sleep on the floor up. Until around age 12 they wouldn’t let me sleep in the bed tho because my father & mother said that’s a “weird thing to do” which I never understood at the time,but I understand now as a 25 year old why. I  was never abused in any way & had a wonderful childhood. I was just clingy with my parents. 

Too this day they still tease me about it & are amazed that I managed to move out at 19 years old, because they were Taking bets on me never moving out lol 

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, JaggedLilPill said:

WTF?? This. This this this. Wasn't there just a guy on the news who raped a neighbor who was a child and got like 90 days probation or house arrest. Something ridiculous like that.

Probably. That crap happens way too often, and I don't get how the laws aren't stricter on that stuff. Rapists and child abusers are going to keep committing their crimes, and their crimes are going to get more and more violent with time. That's been proven over and over again in so many cases. So yeah. The penalties should be way harsher than they currently are. 

Quote

Mm-hmm. Agreed. I'd also argue the 48 hour rule when it comes to adults is wasting precious time. I get it, that an adult is able to disappear and do what they want, but the 48 hour window is always critical and even then, I've seen episodes where families and friends have to jump through hoops to declare person X missing. So, it's infuriating when it happens with minors.

Agreed on the 48 hour rule regarding adults, too. Especially when the police see how visibly distressed the family is when they report a loved one, adult or child, missing. If I'm an officer and I see a family that is that deeply concerned and troubled about the fact they haven't seen or talked to their loved one for x amount of time, that should be more than enough for me to start up an investigation right then and there. 

I echo the comments about how hard it must be for families whose children have gone missing. I can't even begin to imagine that pain, either. These people talk about how they barely sleep, can't focus on anything else, and then of course birthdays and holidays would no doubt bring back painful memories, too. It's truly heartbreaking, and makes you understand why some parents are so protective as a result. 

And yet I also get where the kids want to be independent in walking around on their own, too. Like I said with that episode where the 9 year old girl went missing a while back, I wandered around my neighborhood at that age, no problem, and when I was 13 I would walk to and from our bus stop daily, without anyone leading me around. Hell, when I was in high school, one day, when it was really nice out, instead of waiting for the bus to take me home, I walked all the way from my school to my house. And there's many other kids who walk around unsupervised and manage to make it to school or home or wherever without incident, too. Kids should be able to walk around their own hometowns without fear that some psycho will come and nab them, or that somebody they thought they could trust will betray that trust in a horrible way, and parents shouldn't have to worry about what they're sending their kids out into when they leave the house each day, or wonder if their child will come home safe and sound. 

Yeah. It's just so sad.

[JaggedLilPill]

7 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Probably. That crap happens way too often, and I don't get how the laws aren't stricter on that stuff. Rapists and child abusers are going to keep committing their crimes, and their crimes are going to get more and more violent with time. That's been proven over and over again in so many cases. So yeah. The penalties should be way harsher than they currently are. 

Exactly. Whenever I'm watching an episode of Disappeared and it's a young child who goes missing, they always find that suspect who not only has a criminal record of sexual abuse, but is also in possession of CP. Shocking! Not. Why are they allowed back on the streets?

9 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Agreed on the 48 hour rule regarding adults, too. Especially when the police see how visibly distressed the family is when they report a loved one, adult or child, missing. If I'm an officer and I see a family that is that deeply concerned and troubled about the fact they haven't seen or talked to their loved one for x amount of time, that should be more than enough for me to start up an investigation right then and there. 

Yes! I won't discount that there are those adults who are planning to leave on their own for whatever circumstance without informing anyone, but if you know someone is responsible and always shows up to work, etc, then yes, not showing up for their job should raise a red flag and should be treated as an emergency right off the bat.

In Tabitha's case, I agree that she was most likely abducted and probably killed soon after. I'd be very surprised if she was still alive after all of this time. Not saying it couldn't happen, but I'd say it's unlikely.

I felt so bad for her mom. What an awful experience to go through and still be going through.

Unfortunately they really didn't have much to go on in this case other than the initials on the note (not saying much) and the car, but then they found out it wasn't a red car, but a green one.

I do wonder about the sister's ex-bf, simply because the family alibi is really easy to come by and he did know Tabitha. I guess I find it hard to believe she'd get into the car with someone she didn't know at all.

[Annber03]

That whole thing with the red versus green car was strange and frustrating. All these years they thought they were looking for somebody with a red car, and now, nope, they gotta change direction. 

And yeah, I wish they could find an answer with the initials, too. It sounds like the sort of thing a young girl would write either in relation to a best friend or a boy she had a crush on, and yet they couldn't tie those initials to anyone in her school. 

(On the topic of her classmates and the sad nature of these stories, by the way, I appreciate and admire that a couple of Tabitha's classmates came forward with whatever information they thought might prove helpful, but man, I can't imagine how scary that would've been for them, too. Their classmate is missing and they have to talk to the police. That's a tough thing for a kid to deal with.)

Edited June 4, 2018 by Annber03

[tobeannounced]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

I echo the comments about how hard it must be for families whose children have gone missing. I can't even begin to imagine that pain, either. These people talk about how they barely sleep, can't focus on anything else, and then of course birthdays and holidays would no doubt bring back painful memories, too. It's truly heartbreaking, and makes you understand why some parents are so protective as a result. 

And yet I also get where the kids want to be independent in walking around on their own, too. Like I said with that episode where the 9 year old girl went missing a while back, I wandered around my neighborhood at that age, no problem, and when I was 13 I would walk to and from our bus stop daily, without anyone leading me around. Hell, when I was in high school, one day, when it was really nice out, instead of waiting for the bus to take me home, I walked all the way from my school to my house. And there's many other kids who walk around unsupervised and manage to make it to school or home or wherever without incident, too. Kids should be able to walk around their own hometowns without fear that some psycho will come and nab them, or that somebody they thought they could trust will betray that trust in a horrible way, and parents shouldn't have to worry about what they're sending their kids out into when they leave the house each day, or wonder if their child will come home safe and sound. 

Yeah. It's just so sad.

This is such a struggle for me with my own 17-year-old daughter. She is on the autism spectrum, very high functioning, and she has started to want a little more independence. She loves the outdoors, and we live in a townhouse complex with a playground just around one of the buildings from us. Literally like a one-minute walk. She likes to go over there and read her book under the trees. Every cell in my body wants to tell her NO!!! But, crap, I don't want to be that overprotective. And thank God for cell phones. But I always think if she goes missing, people will be online saying, What the hell was that mother thinking letting her autistic child go out alone?!

[Annber03]

Ergh, yeah, I get that. I'd struggle with that, too, if I had a kid. 

But that's what people who try and blame the parents in these situations fail to understand. Kids can be abducted just sitting out in their front yards, or just a short distance from their homes. It's not like they need to be in some sketchy part of town to be in danger. And yet, at the same time, it's totally natural for parents to think their kids should be safe walking to a nearby park or the bus stop or other typically innocuous, kid-appropriate places like that without them needing to constantly hover. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Annber03

[Jordan61]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And yeah, I wish they could find an answer with the initials, too. It sounds like the sort of thing a young girl would write either in relation to a best friend or a boy she had a crush on, and yet they couldn't tie those initials to anyone in her school. 

I think they said it was the initials of a son of friends of the parents. He was 17-18 I think. Having been a 13 year old girl (albeit a really really really long time ago) I'm guessing she had a crush on him and he probably never knew it or even thought of her that way.

[Hellohappylife]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Ergh, yeah, I get that. I'd struggle with that, too, if I had a kid. 

But that's what people who try and blame the parents in these situations fail to understand. Kids can be abducted just sitting out in their front yards, or just a short distance from their homes. It's not like they need to be in some sketchy part of town to be in danger. And yet, at the same time, it's totally natural for parents to think their kids should be safe walking to a nearby park or the bus stop or other typically innocuous, kid-appropriate places like that without them needing to constantly hover. 

Plus The worst of all the kids who have been abducted from their own bedroom.

The sad reality of is that no one is ever truly safe. There is always going to be Evil people. While it’s normal to want to protect your children from all of the bad, it’s not fair for the child To miss out on things to do,or being sheltered constantly out of fears that the parents have. It’s going to hurt the child in the long run,they will end up living in fear & being afraid of every single thing. 

[mamadrama]

On 6/5/2018 at 6:02 AM, Hellohappylife said:

Plus The worst of all the kids who have been abducted from their own bedroom.

The sad reality of is that no one is ever truly safe. There is always going to be Evil people. While it’s normal to want to protect your children from all of the bad, it’s not fair for the child To miss out on things to do,or being sheltered constantly out of fears that the parents have. It’s going to hurt the child in the long run,they will end up living in fear & being afraid of every single thing. 

I totally agree. After our son died, my instinct was to be overly protective of my daughter and surviving son. I became the kind of parent that normally drives me bonkers-paranoid and clingy. After a couple of years, however, I realized that my actions were hurting both me and my children. My children were so attached to my hip that they weren't learning any independence and my fear-mongering was just making them paranoid to enjoy themselves whenever we were out. They were literally scared of the world. 

Now, I just use common sense. I've learned to let go more, learned that 75% of those "someone almost snatched my baby at the IKEA store" shared on Facebook are not true (seriously, it IS like the new Satanic Panic), and learned that my instincts are generally pretty reliable and that I should listen to them and not overcompensate. To raise independent children who are capable of taking care of themselves when they're adults and to provide them with confidence in their own abilities is one of the best things I can do for my kids. 

I gotta be honest, as much true crime as I read and watch, I now fear other parents who might call CPS on my sometimes unorthodox parenting styles MUCH more than I fear the kidnappers/criminals out there.

Re: Tabitha Tuders...

That one hit me so hard. I lived in Nashville for several years and attended Belmont University. At that time, in the late 90s and early naughts, parts of East Nashville where NOT places you wanted to be caught in after dark. Of course, these days it's been gentrified and all the hipsters have taken over and nobody can afford to live there anymore. Back then, though, it was known as a dangerous part of town. I moved away a year before Tabitha disappeared but I still feel "close" to the case. Had that happened to a child from Belle Meade, Franklin, or Brentwood then her case would NOT have been handled the same way. She wouldn't have been treated as a runaway right off the bat, for starters. 

I feel so badly for her parents. They really touched me because they could be my relatives. 

There were so many sex offenders and other criminals living around there at the time (not just an opinion, research on this case offers actual numbers for the time), that it feels like just about anyone could have taken her. However, I actually believe her parents when they say she wouldn't have gotten in a car with a stranger. I think it was either someone she knew or she was coerced with a gun. I don't think she's still alive. 

[Annber03]

Condolences on the loss of your son, @mamadrama.

[sue450]

On 5/27/2018 at 1:18 PM, Jordan61 said:

Is she the one where the uncles were possible suspects?

yes this is the salgado case she came from mexico  this is the episode that had  her uncles  end up being suspected

Edited June 8, 2018 by sue450

[mamadrama]

On 6/6/2018 at 9:16 PM, Annber03 said:

Condolences on the loss of your son, @mamadrama.

Thanks. I realize that I bring that up a lot on this board, and it's not like I normally go around in public making an announcement of it (some people who met me afterwards don't even know), but this particular show just seems to bring the subject up . :-( The one thing I always think is that my kid is dead but at least I know where he is. I know he's "safe." I think, in some ways, what many of these parents go through is even more awful in their own ways. I can't imagine having a child out there who might be sick or scared or calling for me, and me be unable to get to them. 

[sue450]

On 5/28/2018 at 7:10 PM, ladle said:

So many questions about this episode...

 

1. Why did they keep vaguely casting aspersions on the brother?  What's the deal there?

 

2. How do we know the P.I. is telling the truth about any of this (i.e. finding "Ali Kat")?  Do we have anyone to corroborate this?  If she indeed spoke to an undercover cop who immediately identified the photo as "Ali Cat," couldn't that cop corroborate the story?  Did he?

 

3. Whyyyyyy couldn't she just have called the cops the first time she saw "Ali" at the brothel, instead of waiting a month for them to get a SWAT team together?  Just...what??  If she had reason to believe there was a kidnapped person in there, there would be nothing stopping the cops from going in to get her, right then and there.  Nothing about that part of the story added up, for me.  Which leads me  back to point #2...

not only that...but she was working undercover and she is a detective and now she was on the show so the world knows what she looks like...she is going to need to change her looks while doing her job

[Annber03]

11 minutes ago, mamadrama said:

Thanks. I realize that I bring that up a lot on this board, and it's not like I normally go around in public making an announcement of it (some people who met me afterwards don't even know), but this particular show just seems to bring the subject up . :-( The one thing I always think is that my kid is dead but at least I know where he is. I know he's "safe." I think, in some ways, what many of these parents go through is even more awful in their own ways. I can't imagine having a child out there who might be sick or scared or calling for me, and me be unable to get to them. 

I can't even begin to imagine how tough it is for you to talk about your loss, but yeah, it makes total sense that situations like this lend themselves to that kind of discussion. I do appreciate you offering your perspective in these conversations, it's very much worth hearing. 

Agreed on your last sentence, too. 

[Grumpbump]

Regarding the most recent episode - the 18-year old Martin, his disappearance on its face appears to be deliberate.  But here's where I get frustrated with this show.   Is this show about just letting the family members pontificate about how much their loved one is missed, or is it about locating these people?  In the instances of adults missing, why doesn't this show take a more practical approach and really lay out facts and evidence to actually help locate someone?  

I'm going on about this because of the choice not to release the note that Martin left his family (I realize that it's the family's decision).  And maybe I missed something, but why was there a discussion about his gender identity/sexuality, only to have the family state that there was no issue?   You need help to find him, but you don't want to release the contents of the single biggest clue to help that?  Even if the note contains sensitive information, wouldn't that be outweighed by the help that a nationwide audience could offer?   Martin was going through something because he was keeping the truth of his work/school a secret.  All I could think about was what did that note actually say?  It was distracting.

I came away from this episode thinking that someone in production should have said, "look this could be good case for our show, but you have got to give us more or it just won't work".  Otherwise, it's just a show of parents saying that they can't believe they missed all the clues (and I'm not judging them, hindsight is bitch) and being sad on camera.  It feels very exploitative.  

[tobeannounced]

Good points, Grumpbump.

There are cases where kids who have been saying they're going to school and they aren't and have killed their families to avoid getting in trouble. So it is not beyond the pale to me that this kid went into the wilderness or whatever and committed suicide to avoid the fallout. But it would be interesting to know what was in the note to better be able to assess. Seems like if people are going to participate in this show, they should be prepared to make a full disclosure.

[Surrealist]

38 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

Good points, Grumpbump.

There are cases where kids who have been saying they're going to school and they aren't and have killed their families to avoid getting in trouble. So it is not beyond the pale to me that this kid went into the wilderness or whatever and committed suicide to avoid the fallout. But it would be interesting to know what was in the note to better be able to assess. Seems like if people are going to participate in this show, they should be prepared to make a full disclosure.

I think Martin went off to commit suicide, or succumbed to the elements. The episode didn't give me enough meat to really understand what was going on with him.

[Hellohappylife]

I totally agree with the statement above^^^

Some of the episodes get very repetitive,I understand the family misses their loved ones terribly,but so much important information gets left out. It’s like The first 40 mins of the show is spent having the missing’s persons friends/family explaining all of the great things about them,making sure the public has a good idea & image of the person,with very little facts thrown in.  

Watching this episode I just felt like Martin felt maybe he was not good enough in a way, couldn’t deal with the pressure or expections,of not being in a place in life that everyone expected him to be. So he lied about things. Losing his driver’s license could have made him feel even worse. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Hellohappylife

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Surrealist said:

I think Martin went off to commit suicide, or succumbed to the elements. The episode didn't give me enough meat to really understand what was going on with him.

I feel that way, too. There were parts of his story that kinda reminded me of that guy who inspired the story "Into the Wild"-going off alone to try and regroup and sort out his life or whatever, with tragic results. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I didn't think that he went off to die, because, he did have some kind of backpack with him and he bought some food the day before and it was missing from his fridge. (I assume he took it with him.)  Plus, he did get some money from his account.  Plus, they never found any indication of a body on land or water and they checked thoroughly with cadaver dogs in the community. 

This happened in my state, so I suppose that I am more focused on it, than other cases. I would like them to focus on the restaurant where he worked the semester before he returned to school.  His mom said he was happy, he thrived and it was very positive.  I would like to know more about his bosses, co-workers and patrons.  He was spending time with someone after he returned to school that he kept secret.  I'd think they have info to share. Perhaps, he met them while working at the place when he was happy.  

Ref. the letter he left. I speculate that it has some things in it about his parents. Things must have been complicated. Recall his sister said that at her wedding, Martin was supposed to walk her down the isle, but, then he couldn't because he went missing. Why was her dad not going to walk her down the isle? It sounds like some kind of family relationship issues. 

I sure hope that he's still alive, but, if not, that his remains are discovered. His family is really suffering. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[Jordan61]

6 hours ago, Grumpbump said:

I'm going on about this because of the choice not to release the note that Martin left his family (I realize that it's the family's decision).  And maybe I missed something, but why was there a discussion about his gender identity/sexuality, only to have the family state that there was no issue?   You need help to find him, but you don't want to release the contents of the single biggest clue to help that?  Even if the note contains sensitive information, wouldn't that be outweighed by the help that a nationwide audience could offer?   Martin was going through something because he was keeping the truth of his work/school a secret.  All I could think about was what did that note actually say?  It was distracting.

Yes! I was thinking the same thing. This whole case was weird, with all the lying he was doing to EVERYONE in his life. Did anyone else catch the detective saying he got DNA from the father and the BIRTH mother? Does that mean the mother on the show isn't his biological mother? I was confused about that. I couldn't help thinking he left everything else behind but took his ID because he was planning on suicide and wanted someone to be able to identify him.

[Surrealist]

3 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

Yes! I was thinking the same thing. This whole case was weird, with all the lying he was doing to EVERYONE in his life. Did anyone else catch the detective saying he got DNA from the father and the BIRTH mother? Does that mean the mother on the show isn't his biological mother? I was confused about that. I couldn't help thinking he left everything else behind but took his ID because he was planning on suicide and wanted someone to be able to identify him.

Nope. You got that right. Martin's biological mother isn't in the picture. 

[theajw]

38 minutes ago, Surrealist said:

Nope. You got that right. Martin's biological mother isn't in the picture. 

Who was the woman interviewed as his mother?  His father's ex-wife but not the birth mother?  And then there's the stepmother?  I'm so confused.  

One of the first lines in the episode was about the parents' estrangement, which seemed odd to highlight.  

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, theajw said:

Who was the woman interviewed as his mother?  His father's ex-wife but not the birth mother?  And then there's the stepmother?  I'm so confused.  

One of the first lines in the episode was about the parents' estrangement, which seemed odd to highlight.  

I didn't realize the stepmother was the father's ex-wife. I must not have paid close attention. 

I know Martin's sister is only a half-sibling.

I feel like there's a lot of family drama that we weren't made privy to.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Surrealist

[North of Eden]

Just watched the Ali Lowitzer episode tonight.

So much wrong there.

Outrageous that the parents had to do the police work collecting videos and such. The cops in that town are an embarrassment to law enforcement. The current detective fromt he county sheriff's wasn't much better coming across as a cold fish. "Not much to go on right now. Oh well, let's go grab some donuts."

Mickey Mouse could have put together a better operation than the blonde bombshell P.I.  Jesus Christ...if you saw her in there you wait outside in a stakeout because she has to come out eventually and grab her. Or you hire someone to play a john and get him to get Allicat to meet him a hotel. What you do NOT DO is run back and forth between Ohio and Texas for a month giving Alicat time to vanish into the wind.

My gut reaction is though is that she's been dead since the night she vanished or shortly after. Really felt bad for the father when he broke down. Damn, that must be hell.

[theajw]

8 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I feel like there's a lot of family drama that we weren't made privy to.

Exactly, and it was a bit distracting.  

I also wondered how he got away with not attending ASU and going instead to a community college.  If Martin was paying his own way, no big deal, I guess, expect for the pattern of not telling the truth.  And although we didn't get all the details, a huge red flag for me was the comment about him taking 4-5 online classes at the CC.  I'm a community college professor, and that is an insane load.

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought the dad knew that he was taking some community college classes.  Maybe, others didn't know. Dad said that he was passing, but, withdrew for no known reason. 

I've never taken any online classes.  Is that different from regular?  While attending regular college classes, I normally took around 15 hours (3 hours each class).  It has been a long time ago though. lol 

I was curious about the family dynamics. There was the stepmother, who was listed that way and she seemed concerned, but, there was also the other person listed as mother, who cried so much and begged for anyone to help find him.  So, are you saying that she was not his bio mom? 

[Jordan61]

I take online classes. We do 8 week terms and full time is two classes, if your GPA is great and you think you can handle the workload you can take three. I got my associate's at an on-ground college and I personally think online classes are much harder. I basically spend 2-3 hours in the morning, 2-3 hours in the evening, and another few hours over the weekend reading, doing assignments, taking tests, etc.

[theajw]

Sometimes students take online classes because they mistakenly believe they will be easier.  Some do well, as long as they know the expectations.  

Again, we don't know, and may never will, but he could have been taking online classes at the community college as a way to get back on track to be readmitted full-time to App State.  If he wasn't failing but hadn't logged into the college's LMS in a month, that could have been another sign of him disassociating.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Can someone tell me the name of the old case that was on yesterday about a woman missing in US. She was originally from Panama, I think. She was planning to bring her mother here. Her brothers were living in CA.  She was at home sick, talking to her mother on the phone, when she said she was going to take a nap. That was the last time she was heard from.  Over the next 2 weeks, she is discovered missing and it turns up that her ex-boyfriend came over to see her and he was charged with her murder. Her body has never been found. 

[stephinmn]

So, I am pretty sure the guy last night was a suicide, but it is really weird they can't find his body.

[Yokosmom]

It certainly looks like suicide, but what a crappy thing to do to your family.  Did he think that being murdered would be easier on them than a suicide?  Did they ever look for his bicycle?  Presumably, it would be near his body.

I'm assuming that the other factors that the sheriff mentioned, but did not describe could have been something to do with health?  Perhaps he had a terminal illness that he couldn't face?  Could he have staged the crime scene because he felt everyone looked up to him and would think less of him if he committed suicide? (Note, I'm saying he may have felt that way, not that I do.)

[XinaMarie]

My guess is that maybe he had life insurance and they wouldn't pay out for suicide, so he did it this way to make sure his wife was provided for? There must be something for law enforcement to jump to the suicide conclusion rather than the voluntarily missing conclusion.

[mmecorday]

Yeah, I'm thinking he killed himself. I'm pretty sure his wife knew he was preparing to end his life. That's why she was so quick to get a temporary death certificate so she could sell his truck. I'm also pretty sure we're not getting the whole story in most of these cases.

[stephinmn]

2 hours ago, XinaMarie said:

My guess is that maybe he had life insurance and they wouldn't pay out for suicide, so he did it this way to make sure his wife was provided for? There must be something for law enforcement to jump to the suicide conclusion rather than the voluntarily missing conclusion.

Most life insurance has a suicide clause for only a few years. After that, suicide won't be a factor. It's super weird that they never found his bike or his body. 

[Jordan61]

I thought those blood drops looked weird the second I saw them. When do we ever see crime scenes where blood looks like that?

[funky-rat]

1 hour ago, stephinmn said:

Most life insurance has a suicide clause for only a few years. After that, suicide won't be a factor. It's super weird that they never found his bike or his body. 

Yep.  Generally 5-10 years, then they will cover a suicide - prevents people from taking out big policies and then killing themselves in short order, or murdering someone to make it look like suicide.  I always look at that.  My husband had threatened in the past, but it's usually an empty threat for attention.  However, it is something I look at, just in case.

I just got around to watching the Amy Bradley episode.  I didn't realize that was her mother in the promo for the show that always grates on me (her voice - "Faaahnd yer chaaaaald").  I feel badly for her - I really do - but she's wasted so much money on nothing.  I have a feeling Amy fell overboard in an intoxicated state, and will never be found.  That picture that they showed of the woman on the beach in the swimsuit - taken from far away - proves nothing.  She kept saying "She had Amy's tattoo!" but you couldn't see anything in that photo.  It could have been a shadow, or an anomaly in the photo (like orbs, etc).  

Edited June 18, 2018 by funky-rat

[Jordan61]

On 6/18/2018 at 8:45 AM, mmecorday said:

Yeah, I'm thinking he killed himself. I'm pretty sure his wife knew he was preparing to end his life. That's why she was so quick to get a temporary death certificate so she could sell his truck. I'm also pretty sure we're not getting the whole story in most of these cases.

That would make sense. I was wondering where he would've gotten anti-coagulant for his blood but didn't they say she is a home health aide? She probably has access to it.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Jordan61

[Grumpbump]

7 hours ago, mmecorday said:

Yeah, I'm thinking he killed himself. I'm pretty sure his wife knew he was preparing to end his life. That's why she was so quick to get a temporary death certificate so she could sell his truck. I'm also pretty sure we're not getting the whole story in most of these cases.

You are right.   This is my constant complaint.   We don't get a linear story.  I don't understand why they even bother airing the story.   It's not like it's a whodunit.  The police and a majority of the family feels like it is a suicide.  

[Surrealist]

8 hours ago, XinaMarie said:

My guess is that maybe he had life insurance and they wouldn't pay out for suicide, so he did it this way to make sure his wife was provided for? There must be something for law enforcement to jump to the suicide conclusion rather than the voluntarily missing conclusion.

There was another case involving a man (can't remember his name) who committed suicide out in the desert so that his family could be provided for through his life insurance. He tried to stage it to look like a murder, but that backfired when police did their investigation. His wife wasn't in on it, but I felt sorry for his family. 

[mmecorday]

Quote

I just got around to watching the Amy Bradley episode.

Amy Bradley's story has really haunted me for years. I hope she wasn't made a slave in the sex trade. In the scenario presented in this episode, it seems she was very drunk and continued to drink on her private balcony until dawn. She could very well have leaned too far over the railing or thought, "Hey, I bet I could make an awesome dive from this height" in her inebriated state. Still, just so heartbreaking for her family to know they planned this fun excursion on the high seas that ended in tragedy AND they were scammed by someone who led them to believe Amy was still alive.

[Guest]

On 6/11/2018 at 10:37 AM, Grumpbump said:

Regarding the most recent episode - the 18-year old Martin, his disappearance on its face appears to be deliberate.  But here's where I get frustrated with this show.   Is this show about just letting the family members pontificate about how much their loved one is missed, or is it about locating these people?  In the instances of adults missing, why doesn't this show take a more practical approach and really lay out facts and evidence to actually help locate someone?  

I'm going on about this because of the choice not to release the note that Martin left his family (I realize that it's the family's decision).  And maybe I missed something, but why was there a discussion about his gender identity/sexuality, only to have the family state that there was no issue? 

I finally caught this episode last night and wanted to throw shit at the TV. While I don't think the note would have been helpful to the average armchair detective who wanted to find Martin, I think it would have been helpful, narratively speaking, to include what it said—or don't bother mentioning it at all since I was thinking about what it could have said throughout the entire episode. It's just my hunch, but I believe that Martin was having sexual/identity issues and felt he couldn't confide in anyone about them and went off somewhere to either commit suicide or carve out a new life for himself. How he would do the latter with going undetected is beyond me, but I don't think he met with any foul play. Something was clearly torturing him—and without knowing the contents of the note, we'll never know what it was. 

I really think this show does a complete disservice to the missing. While there are some facts interspersed, the show basically breaks down to, "Oh, everything was great at home/we were a great family/[missing person] was a great human being/the end." This narrative contrivance could well be handled in 30 minutes—the show is needlessly long especially when it comes to the constant repetition of talking heads all repeating the same thing of, "[missing person] is awesome/we miss them and hope they come home." 

[Jordan61]

23 hours ago, Surrealist said:

There was another case involving a man (can't remember his name) who committed suicide out in the desert so that his family could be provided for through his life insurance. He tried to stage it to look like a murder, but that backfired when police did their investigation. His wife wasn't in on it, but I felt sorry for his family. 

That skeevy Joe Gliniewicz did that too.