Disappeared - General Discussion

[Guest]

I didn't realize that Cody had a wife (must have missed that while I was watching!) and now I'm 100% convinced he killed Holly. It reminded me of this case where a veterinarian murdered his pregnant girlfriend as a way of "hiding" her pregnancy from his wife. You know, because a divorce would have been way worse?

[North of Eden]

Catching up on all the new episodes lately.

Here’s a quick rundown on some of the cases.

Cruise Ship mystery-the simplest explanation is the most plausible-she accidently fell off the balcony. I just pray she died when she hit the water instead of having to watch the ship sail away knowing she was doomed.

Little Girl vanishing by bowling alley-Co-sign me to having contempt for the drifter’s girlfriend and neighbors who ignored a child crying out in a basement apartment. The apathy some people have is almost criminal.

Bi-racial young man-I was pretty much him one of 3 black kids in an all-white school…and this was the 1970’s when it was much worse. I heard it all “You should find your own type” one girl told me when I was interested in her sister. I feel for this young man-he probably heard a lot more than he was letting on. I hope he’s off somewhere starting a new life.

The vanishing teen-I’d take a close, close look at that uncle. There may have been a dark temptation dwelling within him.

Sage Smith-I am almost certain that she probably hooked up with someone she met at the wing place. Things may have taken a turn for the intimate and if the man was unaware she was transgender he may have gone into a violent rage…text book crime of passion and killed Sage. She was a lovely young woman. It’s a shame.

Very glad the show is back..now if we could just have more FEAR THY NEIGHBOR.

[Jordan61]

On 5/16/2018 at 7:43 AM, North of Eden said:

Sage Smith-I am almost certain that she probably hooked up with someone she met at the wing place. Things may have taken a turn for the intimate and if the man was unaware she was transgender he may have gone into a violent rage…text book crime of passion and killed Sage. She was a lovely young woman. It’s a shame.

That's what I was thinking; I asked upthread how she was dressed when she went out because it seemed like she was comfortable dressing either way, not exclusively female. I can totally see your scenario happening if she was dressed as a female.

Edited May 17, 2018 by Jordan61

[badhaggis]

Jeffrey Willis was convicted of murdering Jessica Heeringa.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jeffrey-willis-convicted-in-death-of-2nd-mich-woman/

[North of Eden]

15 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

That's what I was thinking; I asked upthread how she was dressed when she went out because it seemed like she was comfortable dressing either way, not exclusively female. I can totally see your scenario happening if she was dressed as a female.

It seems likely to me Sage probably was dressed as you recall originally she was going out on a date with a man who was deeply closeted (enough so that he fled town for good leaving behind his girlfriend once outed) so it seems unlikely he would have been meeting up with Sage if she wasn't decked out as a beautiful woman...one so pretty that later in the night she might have caught the eye of a violent sociopath who could have strangled or beat her to death if he discovered she was transgender.

[chenoa333]

Regarding the Amy Bradley disappearance, I think I might be convinced that Amy's demise was simply from her drinking too much and falling overboard on the cruise ship however, I do have a few questions that someone on this thread could clarify or give their opinion: 

I've only been on a cruise once in my life but IIRC, there was no way I could've fallen overboard because the railings were too high. I know Amy was very tall so maybe that makes a difference?

Any opinions on: that military guy who went off his ship unauthorized and (years later) claimed a woman looking like Amy (followed close behind by 2 men) came up to him and said something like" my name is Amy Bradley and Ive been kidnapped" at which time the 2 men who were behind her, grabbed her and escorted her away.

Also there were pics going around the internet of a young woman looking very much like Amy (same ankle tatoo, facial features, body type) whose photos were taken off a website featuring sex for sale. 

Edited May 20, 2018 by chenoa333

[janeyb]

i jsut wanted to comment on a comment.someone guess boy drowned in pool and Mom covered it up but at beginning of program about his disappearance they say he learned to swim very young as he loved going to beach with his cousins all the time.so why would he drown in a pool at 8 when he knew how to swim??????

[Jordan61]

Michael VanZandt: that one was heartwrenching, with how close he was to his group so many times. Those people must feel horrible; I know I would. I can only imagine based on his past behavior that he wandered off to the beach and drowned. His brother said he would've put his wallet and phone in his shoe but the tide could've come in and washed everything away.

[kazbone4ohio]

On 5/26/2017 at 10:05 AM, Sammich said:

I live fairly close to where this happened.  I believe the mom either killed Zachary, or she is guilty of allowing him to be kidnapped with her carelessness.  I don't think she was only gone for 15 minutes, nor do I think she left the door unlocked and exposed so someone could walk in and steal items.  I think Zach is the one who left the door unlocked when he went looking for his mom after she was gone for so long.  There should have been more delving into the witness who claimed to see the mom leave in her car, which is what I think happened.  I can't imagine anyone leaving a door unlocked and opened at that time of night, even without a child involved.  Most crimes are committed in the middle of the night.   I guess there isn't any way to prove that the mom even went swimming since she then took a shower.  I think she used this alibi to explain why she took a shower.  

I also feel so bad for the aunt and grandmother.  I hope one day there will be closure in this case.  

Im no detective by any means, but being a single parent with a 5 year old son this episode really broke my heart and made me think of the many possibilities as to what happen to zach.

The pool story in full clothes seems very odd, unless she found zach drowning and jumped into save him which would of caused commotion and alerted neighbors. So i think the going for the swim story was a cover up on her part as to leaving to go hook up for drugs or something sinister.

If drugs are involved, the only way a mother/father would think twice about maybe not calling the cops/paramedics was if there child accidentally ingested some of there stash, while they were not home and came back to find there child had o.d. This i believe is the most explainable theory.

This could explain the wet clothes as if she tried to awaken her son in the shower after she found him unresponsive in the apartment. A child that young is not going to go outside in the dark and look for there parent, so an abduction outside is highly unlikely as i can't see a kid doing anything but opening a door and yelling mommy outside if he awoke when she was gone.

In my opinion/theory, I think it was an accidental o.d. if in fact she was on drugs and she could not find it in herself to call the cops and turn herself in.  A drowning is different and yes about any parent that is a parent would not cover that up. But having a child find ur drugs  while u left ur son alone at 3am is a different story.

[stephinmn]

9 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

Michael VanZandt: that one was heartwrenching, with how close he was to his group so many times. Those people must feel horrible; I know I would. I can only imagine based on his past behavior that he wandered off to the beach and drowned. His brother said he would've put his wallet and phone in his shoe but the tide could've come in and washed everything away.

Yeah, this is probably what happened.

ETA: It is pretty cool that his brother stepped in to help with the kids. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by stephinmn

[GoldenGirl90]

13 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

Michael VanZandt: that one was heartwrenching, with how close he was to his group so many times. Those people must feel horrible; I know I would. I can only imagine based on his past behavior that he wandered off to the beach and drowned. His brother said he would've put his wallet and phone in his shoe but the tide could've come in and washed everything away.

The moment his ex-wife and brother mentioned that Michael liked to swim while intoxicated, I immediately felt that he more than likely drowned and was carried away at sea. His brother also said that he looked up the weather and tide information on the the night Michael disappeared and it wasn't good. Very sad. I'm sure his friends will forever regret separating from him that night.

[kelekins]

On 5/21/2018 at 5:05 AM, kazbone4ohio said:

Im no detective by any means, but being a single parent with a 5 year old son this episode really broke my heart and made me think of the many possibilities as to what happen to zach.

The pool story in full clothes seems very odd, unless she found zach drowning and jumped into save him which would of caused commotion and alerted neighbors. So i think the going for the swim story was a cover up on her part as to leaving to go hook up for drugs or something sinister.

If drugs are involved, the only way a mother/father would think twice about maybe not calling the cops/paramedics was if there child accidentally ingested some of there stash, while they were not home and came back to find there child had o.d. This i believe is the most explainable theory.

This could explain the wet clothes as if she tried to awaken her son in the shower after she found him unresponsive in the apartment. A child that young is not going to go outside in the dark and look for there parent, so an abduction outside is highly unlikely as i can't see a kid doing anything but opening a door and yelling mommy outside if he awoke when she was gone.

In my opinion/theory, I think it was an accidental o.d. if in fact she was on drugs and she could not find it in herself to call the cops and turn herself in.  A drowning is different and yes about any parent that is a parent would not cover that up. But having a child find ur drugs  while u left ur son alone at 3am is a different story.

I disagree about a child at 5 not going outside looking for their parent. As a child of a single alcoholic mother, I had to mature much quicker than most children my age. I grew accustomed to having to look for my Mom after bar close. Sometime I would find her fallen outside, with a twisted ankle, she has fallen the steps and cracked her head open once. If she did have an issue with drugs and/or alcohol and this was her routine to meet her dealer outside or partake in these activities at a neighbors, I wouldn't be surprised to hear of him looking for her outside in the parking lot or within the complex itself. 

 

I do believe that had a hand in his disappearance and more than likely it was accidental.  

[spankydoll]

On ‎5‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 1:36 PM, Alexis2291 said:

The moment his ex-wife and brother mentioned that Michael liked to swim while intoxicated, I immediately felt that he more than likely drowned and was carried away at sea. His brother also said that he looked up the weather and tide information on the the night Michael disappeared and it wasn't good. Very sad. I'm sure his friends will forever regret separating from him that night.

Here in Boston there have been a spate of young men going missing and showing up on bodies of water. In all kinds of weather with no reason why they would be falling into the harbor. 

[GoldenGirl90]

1 hour ago, spankydoll said:

Here in Boston there have been a spate of young men going missing and showing up on bodies of water. In all kinds of weather with no reason why they would be falling into the harbor. 

It just seems like the most plausible explanation. Again, I could be completely wrong because in most cases the body, or the remains of one, turn up somewhere at some point. I hate to be graphic but we must also consider wild life. I just hope the family receives some answers soon. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Alexis2291

[Josette]

Elizabeth Salgado's remains have been found.

[Josette]

Elizabeth Salgado's remains have been found.  Her episode aired in April of last year.  She was the student from Mexico studying in Utah.  Discussion of that episode is on page 4.

[Jordan61]

Is she the one where the uncles were possible suspects?

[GoldenGirl90]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:03 AM, Josette said:

Elizabeth Salgado's remains have been found.  Her episode aired in April of last year.  She was the student from Mexico studying in Utah.  Discussion of that episode is on page 4.

Oh, my heart. The poor mother doesn’t believe it’s Elizabeth but dental records have already positively ID’d her. Hopefully the discovery of her remains will now lead to the person or people who are responsible for her death. 

[Jordan61]

Ali Lowitzer: I know a lot of these episodes speculate that the missing women have been trafficked, but I absolutely believe it this time. There is no way that girl in Ohio was not Ali; several people shown her photo recognized her immediately, knew her name, and knew she was from Texas.

[GoldenGirl90]

I just finished watching last night’s episode about Ali Lowitzer and boy did the authorities who were initially involved drop the ball on this one. 

They were very reluctant to classify Ali as a missing person, telling the parents “oh, call us tomorrow when she returns.” The poor parents basically did the initial work themselves: going to her place of employment, requesting footage from the bus to see what time she got on/off, asking the gas station across the street from her workplace for footage to see if she ever made it there, ect. This is stuff the authorities should’ve been doing. Even after the parents presented all of this information to the authorities, they didn’t reclassify Ali as a missing person, but an endangered runaway. By the time Ali’s story was covered in the media and the homocide unit picked it up, precious time had been wasted and they had to start over. 

The fact that her cellphone was shut off almost immediately after she got off the bus is troubling. I think she was abducted and disposed of shortly thereafter. I know in most cases of missing women, sex trafficking is always considered and while it’s entirely possible, I don’t see that as the most likely outcome in Ali’s case. I think this was a crime of opportunity. Perhaps some sicko had been watching her get off the bus everyday and because, according to her mother, she never walked to work with the exception of this one time, the perpetrator saw the perfect opportunity to take her. Not a single trace of her has been found to this day. Very sad for the family. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Alexis2291

[tobeannounced]

12 minutes ago, Jordan61 said:

Ali Lowitzer: I know a lot of these episodes speculate that the missing women have been trafficked, but I absolutely believe it this time. There is no way that girl in Ohio was not Ali; several people shown her photo recognized her immediately, knew her name, and knew she was from Texas.

This scenario really made no sense to me in that the female detective or whatever she was was IN THE HOUSE with who she was sure was Ali. What did she do? She went back to Houston and returned a month later to find her gone.  WTF?

[100Proof]

30 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

This scenario really made no sense to me in that the female detective or whatever she was was IN THE HOUSE with who she was sure was Ali. What did she do? She went back to Houston and returned a month later to find her gone.  WTF?

Came here to say the same thing. "It's Ali". So lets see... I'll fly back to texas, two weeks later the parents fly up, two weeks later they tell the police. "Oh, these people probably got tipped off".  Of course!! That's why you take immediate action!! Are these people for real?? Is this a joke???

Wow....just wow

Edited May 28, 2018 by 100Proof

[Jordan61]

Is that how long it was? That IS really weird. I am usually multitasking while watching and must've missed that. What the hell, how did she not step outside that door and immediately call 911, or at least go straight to the local cops that they said she had forged a relationship with? 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Jordan61

[100Proof]

My first impressions after viewing were knee jerk and a bit off base. So I'm reviewing the episode and describing it below....

They got a tip in October that someone who looked like her was in Ohio.  Private detective goes goes undercover up there and starts asking around. She informs police what she's up to. Late November she gets the lead the Ali's holed up hostage in one of a number of possible drug houses. Seems like this took into December to find the place where Ali was at. Detective flies back to Texas to tell parents.

Parents fly up to Ohio with detective. They devise a 'plan' to 'buy' Ali back with the detective posing as a madam or pimp of sorts. They apparently inform the police what they're gonna do and the police get a warrant. The parents go back to Texas while the detective prepares for the sting. Again appears to take some time to implement the plan. Its now some point in January.  Detective, posing as a madam, enters the house wearing a wire. Police are outside waiting for this 'deal' to go down.  Apparently this deal takes place  (not sure how or why if Ali was no longer there) and the police raid the drug house.

So although the amount of time passing between when the detective supposedly found Ali and flew back to Texas and the time the raid took place wasn't specified except that the former took place in December and the later in January, it's probably anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks. Depends on how far into December the detective finds Ali to how far into January the raid took place. They don't seem to state more specifically.

However, regardless, there is a time lag between finding her and performing a rescue. Why go through this ruse? Why having to concoct this scheme in the first place? Granted there was no guarantee it was her 100% but once she was 'found', as you said above, call 911.  A missing person who was a minor was abducted and is now believed to being held against her will.  Isn't this probable cause enough? Hell, or call 911, tell them shots fired and someone murdered at that address!

There's probably is some kind of legal thing though than  just calling 911 and have it taken care of but I'm not sure what that'd be.

Edited May 28, 2018 by 100Proof

[tobeannounced]

Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I swore she said (and they reenacted) her going into the house and seeing Ali. Then she left for Houston, etc., to set up a plan.

Just now, tobeannounced said:

Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I swear I thought she said (and they reenacted) her going into the house and seeing Ali. Then she left for Houston, etc., to set up a plan.

[tobeannounced]

25 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

 

I went and rewatched, and the private detective definitely went to the "brothel" in November. The parents went up in December. The private detective went back and tried to find her in January and wasn't able to.

[Jordan61]

19 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

I went and rewatched, and the private detective definitely went to the "brothel" in November. The parents went up in December. The private detective went back and tried to find her in January and wasn't able to.

That is a ridiculous amount of time to wait to try to rescue an endangered minor.

[theajw]

2 hours ago, 100Proof said:

They devise a 'plan' to 'buy' Ali back with the detective posing as a madam or pimp of sorts. They apparently inform the police what they're gonna do and the police get a warrant....Detective, posing as a madam, enters the house wearing a wire. Police are outside waiting for this 'deal' to go down.  Apparently this deal takes place  (not sure how or why if Ali was no longer there) and the police raid the drug house.

Anyone else find this whole scenario to be odd?  Maybe I was watching with too much cynicism.  Like 100Proof said, why the ruse?

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, Alexis2291 said:

I just finished watching last night’s episode about Ali Lowitzer and boy did the authorities who were initially involved drop the ball on this one. 

They were very reluctant to classify Ali as a missing person, telling the parents “oh, call us tomorrow when she returns.” The poor parents basically did the initial work themselves: going to her place of employment, requesting footage from the bus to see what time she got on/off, asking the gas station across the street from her workplace for footage to see if she ever made it there, ect. This is stuff the authorities should’ve been doing. Even after the parents presented all of this information to the authorities, they didn’t reclassify Ali as a missing person, but an endangered runaway. By the time Ali’s story was covered in the media and the homocide unit picked it up, precious time had been wasted and they had to start over. 

The fact that her cellphone was shut off almost immediately after she got off the bus is troubling. I think she was abducted and disposed of shortly thereafter. I know in most cases of missing women, sex trafficking is always considered and while it’s entirely possible, I don’t see that as the most likely outcome in Ali’s case. I think this was a crime of opportunity. Perhaps some sicko had been watching her get off the bus everyday and because, according to her mother, she never walked to work with the exception of this one time, the perpetrator saw the perfect opportunity to take her. Not a single trace of her has been found to this day. Very sad for the family. 

Fully agreed on the authorities dropping the ball. I could maybe understand them suggesting to the parents to give it one night just in case, because sure, okay, a kid staying out later than planned, it happens. Ali could've changed her plans and forgot/didn't bother to tell her parents for whatever reason, and it's logical to wait and see if she comes home at some point that night. 

But when she didn't come home the next day, and especially when police saw how visibly concerned her parents were, yeah. That's the time to get right on it and get moving. I can't believe they waited as long as they did. And even when they considered the possibility of her running away, the fact she didn't stop to pick up her paycheck should've quickly ended that speculation, because if she'd had plans to do that, I would think she would've at least gone to get her paycheck so she'd have some money to go somewhere. And yet she didn't.

My mom pointed out how odd the delay in trying to nab Ali with that ruse was, too. She was also confused by the fact that Ali's brother claimed to hear the bus coming, only to up and leave at that point. Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to wait for the bus to arrive, come out to make sure she was there and got off the bus okay? 'Cause then he could've just been right there to tell her, "Hey, Mom told me you were coming back here. Here's your key for you to get into the house and do what you gotta do. I'm heading out, but I should be home at x time" or whatever, and then they could've gone from there. It seems odd that he wouldn't have at least stuck around for a couple more minutes to see the bus arrive and make sure she got home okay and was set to go that night. 

But yeah. I felt almost as disappointed as that woman did when it was revealed that Ali wasn't among the women they got out of the building. And for some reason, the image of her stuffed animals in her room really got to me, too. I always get a little choked up at the image of stuffed animals left behind, be it in a kid's room or at a memorial site or whatever. Don't know why. 

[Jordan61]

15 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

She was also confused by the fact that Ali's brother claimed to hear the bus coming, only to up and leave at that point. Wouldn't it have made more sense for him to wait for the bus to arrive, come out to make sure she was there and got off the bus okay? 'Cause then he could've just been right there to tell her, "Hey, Mom told me you were coming back here. Here's your key for you to get into the house and do what you gotta do. I'm heading out, but I should be home at x time" or whatever, and then they could've gone from there. It seems odd that he wouldn't have at least stuck around for a couple more minutes to see the bus arrive and make sure she got home okay and was set to go that night. 

I wonder if that's one of the reasons they can't clear him as a person of interest?

[spankydoll]

The timeline didn't seem too off to me. I've been working with a OK to try and get my sister out of Mexico. Long story. But it does take a few days to pull a team together and coordinate with the authorities. And I do believe that one of the traffickers would have given the family some info in exchange for a deal.

[Jordan61]

13 minutes ago, spankydoll said:

The timeline didn't seem too off to me. I've been working with a OK to try and get my sister out of Mexico. Long story. But it does take a few days to pull a team together and coordinate with the authorities. And I do believe that one of the traffickers would have given the family some info in exchange for a deal.

Not doubting you in the least, but I just can't fathom leaving a minor child in a brothel for TWO MONTHS! A day or two to set up a raid and make sure nobody gets hurt, maybe. But two months seems outrageous.

I wish there would have been more about the reasoning behind that.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Jordan61

[spankydoll]

5 minutes ago, Jordan61 said:

Not doubting you in the least, but I just can't fathom leaving a minor child in a brothel for TWO MONTHS! A day or two to set up a raid and make sure nobody gets hurt, maybe. But two months seems outrageous.

I wish there would have been more about the reasoning behind that.

Now that I think of it most of our timeline has been impacted because of the intricacies of working with the Mexican authorities. It should have been a go, go, go with U.S. Authorities

[Jordan61]

2 minutes ago, spankydoll said:

Now that I think of it most of our timeline has been impacted because of the intricacies of working with the Mexican authorities. It should have been a go, go, go with U.S. Authorities

I can't even imagine the hoops you are having to jump through. Hugs to you and I hope everything works out for you and your family.

[Annber03]

Seconded. Best of luck, @spankydoll.

[spankydoll]

Thank you. That is very kind. It's a very trying time it's terrifying not knowing exactly where she us but we know that she's alive

[ladle]

So many questions about this episode...

 

1. Why did they keep vaguely casting aspersions on the brother?  What's the deal there?

 

2. How do we know the P.I. is telling the truth about any of this (i.e. finding "Ali Kat")?  Do we have anyone to corroborate this?  If she indeed spoke to an undercover cop who immediately identified the photo as "Ali Cat," couldn't that cop corroborate the story?  Did he?

 

3. Whyyyyyy couldn't she just have called the cops the first time she saw "Ali" at the brothel, instead of waiting a month for them to get a SWAT team together?  Just...what??  If she had reason to believe there was a kidnapped person in there, there would be nothing stopping the cops from going in to get her, right then and there.  Nothing about that part of the story added up, for me.  Which leads me  back to point #2...

[Jordan61]

41 minutes ago, ladle said:

2. How do we know the P.I. is telling the truth about any of this (i.e. finding "Ali Kat")?  Do we have anyone to corroborate this?  If she indeed spoke to an undercover cop who immediately identified the photo as "Ali Cat," couldn't that cop corroborate the story?  Did he?

You know, that's a good point. I already deleted the episode from my DVR but I think everything about people identifying Ali from her picture, saying she was from Texas and had a scar on her forehead were just what the PI said, they didn't show us any corroboration. And I totally forgot that one of those people was supposedly an undercover cop.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Jordan61

[GoldenGirl90]

2 hours ago, ladle said:

2. How do we know the P.I. is telling the truth about any of this (i.e. finding "Ali Kat")?  Do we have anyone to corroborate this?  If she indeed spoke to an undercover cop who immediately identified the photo as "Ali Cat," couldn't that cop corroborate the story?  Did he?

Also we have to remember she’s more than likely getting paid by the family to do all of this. Some do it pro bono but that wasn’t explicitly stated in this instance and I couldn’t find it anywhere online. I’m not discrediting the work of PI’s, as many have been known to help solve crimes but IDK about this one. 

[tobeannounced]

Kind of reminds me of the woman who disappeared off the cruise ship boat and one of the guys investigating the case ripped off the family for quite a bit of money with his scam of finding their daughter.

[theajw]

45 minutes ago, tobeannounced said:

Kind of reminds me of the woman who disappeared off the cruise ship boat and one of the guys investigating the case ripped off the family for quite a bit of money with his scam of finding their daughter.

Sadly, this was my first thought as well.  I really hope it's not the case, though. 

[ladle]

Yep, that was my thought as well.  Seriously, there's a special place in hell... 

BUT if one of the people who supposedly saw Ali was a police officer, that should be easy to check, no? 

[Guest]

Oh, man...just watched this and feel confident saying that PI is full of crap. Little backstory: someone I knew went missing several years back. Same age as Ali. I cannot even begin to say how many weirdos and creeps came out of the woodwork to "help" the family during their frantic search—including a useless PI who came up with all sorts of crazy scenarios and who filelded a tip about the missing person from someone in Florida where he had to go to "investigate" (or "vacation"). Maybe because of that experience, I have zero faith that anything she was saying was truthful. I'm convinced now more than ever that "human trafficking" is the new "satanic panic." (Yes, human trafficking is real [unlike the satan-worshipping pedos/murderers] but not to the extent where every missing teen in America is a victim of it,) And all those people who claimed to have known Ali and her birthmark and her nickname? My gut says the PI fabricated all of them in some effort to extend her paycheck.

Regarding the tip: Why the hell would some pimp take Ali to a church for some food? Why risk that? Again, going back to my own experience, all sorts of "tips" were called in as to sighting of the missing person. And every one of them was wrong—the story ended tragically (though not criminally). I don't know if the people calling in were thinking they honestly saw the person or were just trying to hop on some bandwagon they had interest in. So, in that regard, even the "tip" itself was not to be believed. 

I don't know. Maybe my own personal experience has colored my opinion too much. 

As for the brother, didn't they say he refused to be interviewed by police? Then, at some point, moved away? I'm thinking he should be the main suspect here.

[mamadrama]

On 5/28/2018 at 12:32 PM, Jordan61 said:

Ali Lowitzer: I know a lot of these episodes speculate that the missing women have been trafficked, but I absolutely believe it this time. There is no way that girl in Ohio was not Ali; several people shown her photo recognized her immediately, knew her name, and knew she was from Texas.

I thought that, to, while I was watching the episode. When I started doing some research on my own, however, my opinion changed. Apparently, on a lot of the sites (Reddit, Websleuths, etc.) people are calling "shenanigans" with the PI. The ONLY person who's word we have to go on is hers. She's apparently done some pretty shady things in the past, too, and many people think that she's taking that family for a ride. I personally think it's weird that she supposedly spotted Ali in there but that the police didn't go back until a month later. If they had REALLY gotten tipped off, why did they have any girls there at all? If they knew the police were coming, wouldn't they have moved ALL the girls out? Why risk losing 10 girls or whatever over keeping just one? 

3 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Oh, man...just watched this and feel confident saying that PI is full of crap. Little backstory: someone I knew went missing several years back. Same age as Ali. I cannot even begin to say how many weirdos and creeps came out of the woodwork to "help" the family during their frantic search—including a useless PI who came up with all sorts of crazy scenarios and who filelded a tip about the missing person from someone in Florida where he had to go to "investigate" (or "vacation"). Maybe because of that experience, I have zero faith that anything she was saying was truthful. I'm convinced now more than ever that "human trafficking" is the new "satanic panic." (Yes, human trafficking is real [unlike the satan-worshipping pedos/murderers] but not to the extent where every missing teen in America is a victim of it,) And all those people who claimed to have known Ali and her birthmark and her nickname? My gut says the PI fabricated all of them in some effort to extend her paycheck.

Regarding the tip: Why the hell would some pimp take Ali to a church for some food? Why risk that? Again, going back to my own experience, all sorts of "tips" were called in as to sighting of the missing person. And every one of them was wrong—the story ended tragically (though not criminally). I don't know if the people calling in were thinking they honestly saw the person or were just trying to hop on some bandwagon they had interest in. So, in that regard, even the "tip" itself was not to be believed. 

I don't know. Maybe my own personal experience has colored my opinion too much. 

As for the brother, didn't they say he refused to be interviewed by police? Then, at some point, moved away? I'm thinking he should be the main suspect here.

I made my comment before I read yours and I just wanted to say that I absolutely agree about the PI. She seems super shady. I also agree that human trafficking is the new satanic panic. Any time a young woman disappears people scream "trafficking". In actuality, people are more likely to be trafficked if they're homeless, don't have strong family ties, etc. Or they're likely to be trafficked by their own family members. High risk women/girls are not usually snatched off the street. (FWIW, I belong to a true crime group and our "leader" calls "satanism" every time there's a murder. As a pagan, it enrages me the way people are constantly grouping all of that together and assuming that non-Christians are into devil worshiping, or even that devil worshipers are violent to begin with.)

[mamadrama]

On 5/9/2018 at 6:59 PM, Christina said:

From that article referring to her arrest, "It was the biggest bombshell yet in the disappearance of Williams, the affable 31-year-old real estate appraiser who never returned after supposedly going duck hunting alone the morning of Dec. 16, 2000."

"Bombshell" doesn't seem to mean what I thought it meant.

Ha ha. Most of us pegged her as being heavily involved, if not the outright killer, 35 minutes into a one-hour Investigation ID episode. Color us shocked. ;-)

I'm like you, the biggest surprise is that the other husband gave her up and wasn't the one who did the deed. 

[Jordan61]

1 hour ago, mamadrama said:

I also agree that human trafficking is the new satanic panic. Any time a young woman disappears people scream "trafficking".

I totally agree; I fell for it this time when they said people identified her, mentioned her scar and that she was from Texas, etc. But then you guys pointed out that is all down the PI with no corroboration (that we saw).

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

I totally agree; I fell for it this time when they said people identified her, mentioned her scar and that she was from Texas, etc. But then you guys pointed out that is all down the PI with no corroboration (that we saw).

I fell for it as well while I was watching the episode. But the longer the episode ran, the higher my hinky meter got. The one thing that crossed my mind was that IF this had been a human trafficking situation, it's possible that she was somehow "groomed" and therefore picked up by someone she "knew" (rather than it being a stranger abduction). However, it seems there would've been some electronic footprints for that to have happened. Unfortunately, I think the PI is probably taking the family for a ride. That sucks. 

[theajw]

I have known some Allisons, Alexandras, Alexandrias, and "Alley Cat" is a common nickname.  Sounds like something a psychic would reveal, and someone gullible (or a desperate family) would think, "Oh, my God, how did you know that?" when it's quite reductive.  Also something, like the scar, the PI could have gleaned from investigation.  

Edited June 3, 2018 by theajw

[Jordan61]

Tabitha Tuders: I don't like the ones with the younger kids. About the only thing that could have happened to them is they were abducted. It's not like she ran off to start a new life. It looks like the brother did not want to participate, and his picture in the family shots was blurred out.

[Annber03]

I'm getting really disturbed by how many of these stories involving young kids disappearing have a bit where the police don't issue Amber Alerts or take a day (or more) before they officially treat the disappearance as a "missing person" situation or things of that sort. Even if Tabitha were a runaway (because yeah, there are thirteen year olds who do run away), even if she did, as somebody in the show put it, "leave of her own free will"...she's still thirteen freaking years old. Thirteen year olds don't really HAVE much in the way of "free will" when it comes to stuff like this, compared to anyone who's 18 or older, and there's only so many places that, if they ran away, they would legally be allowed to go into to stay or hide away. And if she runs away without any money, she can't exactly go very far, so the fact she left her money behind should be a massive clue that this probably isn't a runaway situation. 

But even if she were a runaway, what the hell is the harm in putting out an alert that she's missing anyway? Either you'd find her soon after and return her to her family, which, yay, all settled then, or, if she were the sort who ran away because she didn't want to return to her home for whatever reason, at least by putting out an alert somebody might be able to give the police some clue as to where she is and if she's still alive and close by somewhere, or reassure them she's safe wherever she is, or something. Or maybe, if she had run away and been taken by somebody in the process, putting out an alert could help stop her from being lured away by a potential predator, or maybe make it easier to quickly nab a predator who already kidnapped her before they do god knows what with her. 

I just...I don't understand how some police forces don't take the disappearance of children under 18 more seriously right from the get-go. All these delays and "let's wait and see what happens" situations do is take away precious valuable time that could help save the kid, and then here the families are, over a decade later, still waiting for any sort of answers. It's bizarre. 

On the note of creepy predators, too, really glad that people who've had a history of rape and inappropriate interactions with children Tabitha's age can get out of jail after such a short time, or only get probation, or whatever. That's so comforting :/. I know that one guy's sister claimed he was with her at the time Tabitha was kidnapped, but we've seen many stories where family members will cover for somebody and claim an alibi only for it to be proven false, so... I don't know if that's what happened here, but it's worth keeping in mind. I do agree this seems like an abduction situation, and I know her mom was insistent that she didn't get into random cars, but if she reportedly was sneaking off to chat with strangers online, and if that story about that older boy claiming she would come to smoke with him is true, well...maybe she wouldn't get into the car of somebody she didn't know at all, no, but going off with someone she thought she knew and could trust? It's possible. 

Either that, or if she did get into a stranger's car, they forced her in there somehow. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Annber03