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S15.E24: Date with Destiny

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9 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

That's kind of how cliffhangers work. 

The alternative would probably be something like killing Abby off, Kate-style.

Cliffhangers OK. But writers don't necessarily need to make up convoluted episodes just to get to a cliffhanger. It's a given that any episode with a TBC ending can be construed as a cliffhanger.

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28 minutes ago, preeya said:

Cliffhangers OK. But writers don't necessarily need to make up convoluted episodes just to get to a cliffhanger. It's a given that any episode with a TBC ending can be construed as a cliffhanger.

One person's convoluted is another's intricate plotting. Personally, I felt it made sense in the context. I'm not fond of cliffhanger endings in general - but that's the way tv is done these days. Damn you Dallas (the original "Who Shot JR" cliffhanger - for those too young to remember).

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18 hours ago, ForReal said:

It did strike me that perhaps one of the reasons that Jack hasn't dated was because it would be a bit awkward to get, uh, cozy with someone and have him see the scars with no warning. Yet not something to chat about over dinner and drinks. But Gibbs will understand. Because I think it's headed that way.

I don't agree.  We saw the Gibbs headstone (as a three-person headstone) for the first time in this episode.  I don't ever remember seeing it configured that way before, and there clearly was an empty space for Jethro.  That means that he's had that plot for awhile and has apparently never made any effort to change anything.  I think that headstone is a clear signal of what Gibbs's future will be, and it explains his subsequent marriages.  Gibbs will let a woman in for awhile, but that headstone, and the fact that it still remains that way years after Shannon and Kelly died, seems to be an enormous message that Gibbs wishes for Shannon to always be his ONE.  Plus. Jack's a co-worker.  It wouldn't surprise me if we don't ever see anyone else romantically tied to Gibbs.  The headstone might as well be saying, "There would be no point."

Edited by Ohmo
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On 5/23/2018 at 11:37 AM, Trey said:

I did not like the way Vance and Gibbs treated the man who was suffering from ptsd, who was rescued along with Sloane.  They should have warned him they were going to play a recording of the voice of the man who tortured him, instead of just springing it on him like that.

SECOND. It was AWFUL. I think he was at Walter Reed.

 

On 5/23/2018 at 2:33 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

A lot of people may suspect; a few may know, but Gibbs never told anyone else what he did, except for this mother-in-law, Shannon's mother. Guess he forgot he did tell at least one other person. And in "Hiatus," when Jennie tells Ducky that Gibbs had a wife and child who were murdered, Ducky said that Gibbs would not have let the person responsible, live. Still, semantics.

I'm sure he's aware a lot of people suspect. He's never confirmed their suspicions.

No, he also told Shannon's mother it didn't bring him the satisfaction he thought it would; just as killing whoever she did, would not bring her peace.

Agreed. I don't think he's ever said it out loud, not even to Jenny.

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16 hours ago, Pyanfar said:

Had to re-watch before I could be sure.  I think they retconned Gibbs' age again.  According to last night's headstone, he's now 63 or 64.  Have to check the other episodes, but I think he was younger on the earlier headstones.

I was all excited that they finally CONFIRMED his age! and wow, y'all are right - where's the mandatory retirement??? Federal agents are subject to mandatory retirement at age 57. I mean, I can go along with a hand-wave - but let's at least address it!!!

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 I guess put me into the "convoluted" side with regards to the story the other night.

Here's this guy who has diplomatic immunity from all the good, charity work he has done over the years...all of a sudden deciding to quickly leave the country because one person (and another who has some form of dementia) says he was a baddie all due to them thinking they recognize his voice after all those years.  Seems kinda flimsy evidence to me. 

But I guess I can see where he would want to leave quickly just in case.  But at the same time, if I were to leave the country in a hurry, I don't think I would take the time to kidnap the head of NCIS on my way to the airport.  But maybe that's just me.  ;)

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15 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

One person's convoluted is another's intricate plotting. Personally, I felt it made sense in the context. I'm not fond of cliffhanger endings in general - but that's the way tv is done these days. Damn you Dallas (the original "Who Shot JR" cliffhanger - for those too young to remember).

"Who Shot J.R.?" was a brilliant cliff-hanger and proof that someone doesn't have to be kidnapped in order to make a season finale interesting.

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Wondering if Vance has a toothpick hidden (we haven't seen them in a while) and will somehow use it to get free.

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8 hours ago, brgjoe said:

 I guess put me into the "convoluted" side with regards to the story the other night.

Here's this guy who has diplomatic immunity from all the good, charity work he has done over the years...all of a sudden deciding to quickly leave the country because one person (and another who has some form of dementia) says he was a baddie all due to them thinking they recognize his voice after all those years.  Seems kinda flimsy evidence to me. 

But I guess I can see where he would want to leave quickly just in case.  But at the same time, if I were to leave the country in a hurry, I don't think I would take the time to kidnap the head of NCIS on my way to the airport.  But maybe that's just me.  ;)

The guy has a grudge against Vance, and is clearly if not crazy, then a monster, so it worked for me. But mileage does vary. I don't think he felt insecure about being found out, though. The two "witnesses" were pretty unreliable. I think he just didn't want to be hounded.

8 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

"Who Shot J.R.?" was a brilliant cliff-hanger and proof that someone doesn't have to be kidnapped in order to make a season finale interesting.

It was the first cliffhanger - and yes, it was well done. I was referring more to the fact that it triggered (snicker) the avalanche of cliffhangers that came after. Everybody wanted to capture that lightening in a bottle. Some have, some haven't. I'm not fond of cliffhangers - it's like they don't trust the audience to want to come back next season.

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nothing against the new lab girl,, We already had quirky can we not get something else.  All the other military dramas lab staff are quirky.  please, lets get someone with a different story.  

Who knows, they may be trying a few people out.  Wasn't this position temporary since Abby left?  I'm not sure

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42 minutes ago, stuckin60s said:

Who knows, they may be trying a few people out.  Wasn't this position temporary since Abby left?  I'm not sure

Yes, it's supposed to be a temporary position for Kasie but I'm pretty sure it will become permanent for her.  I like her so far.

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1 hour ago, stuckin60s said:

nothing against the new lab girl,, We already had quirky can we not get something else.  All the other military dramas lab staff are quirky.  please, lets get someone with a different story.

Not just military dramas. Most shows involving crime solving seem to go to quirk with the lab staff. For the most part, I don't mind. I got tired of Abby, I didn't start out disliking her, though I didn't exactly like her either, but expected some level of growth over the years and she seemed to go backwards rather than forward. I like the new woman. She reminds me of my daughters. And myself at that age.

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2 hours ago, Driad said:

Wondering if Vance has a toothpick hidden (we haven't seen them in a while) and will somehow use it to get free.

Ok now this HAS to happen.

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5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

The guy has a grudge against Vance, and is clearly if not crazy, then a monster,

How about evil?  Driven by his beliefs, etc. 
Go back and look at some of the wood cut illustrations of the crusades.  Those were not rocks being hurled at city walls with trebuchets and catapults, they were human heads.

https://goo.gl/images/w5nUmo 

3 hours ago, stuckin60s said:

All the other military dramas lab staff are quirky.  please, lets get someone with a different story.  

Yes, please, in real life quirky technicians spend too much time being quirly and not enough with checking their instruments' calibrations (unless ordered to).  Reprducibility of results matters.

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46 minutes ago, enoughcats said:
6 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

The guy has a grudge against Vance, and is clearly if not crazy, then a monster,

How about evil?  Driven by his beliefs, etc. 
Go back and look at some of the wood cut illustrations of the crusades.  Those were not rocks being hurled at city walls with trebuchets and catapults, they were human heads.

https://goo.gl/images/w5nUmo 

I don't see evil and monster as separate entities. Driven by beliefs is something different, and in my opinion, beliefs are often twisted to be used as excuses for horrible human beings to do what they're naturally inclined to do. As portrayed, what I take away is that "The Monster" gets off on torturing people for his own pleasure, and uses the belief that they are "infidels" as an excuse.

As for the woodcuts, I spent a great deal of time as a kid reading all about the nasty things humans have done to each other throughout history - some particularly horrifying ones were during the Inquisition - horribly and revoltingly creative - and used on people who were still alive. Some of them stick with me to this day, and haunt me. I wish I hadn't been quite so curious. So heads being catapulted towards city halls doesn't elicit that much of a reaction; the people those heads belonged to were already dead.

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7 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

It was the first cliffhanger - and yes, it was well done. I was referring more to the fact that it triggered (snicker) the avalanche of cliffhangers that came after. Everybody wanted to capture that lightening in a bottle. Some have, some haven't. I'm not fond of cliffhangers - it's like they don't trust the audience to want to come back next season.

Worse yet is that they plan and shoot the cliffhangers before they know if they've been renewed.

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4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Not just military dramas. Most shows involving crime solving seem to go to quirk with the lab staff.

YES!!  Every. Freaking. Show. has copied weird Abby.  It's the reason I don't watch NCIS:NOLA even though I've been a fan of Scott Bakula since Quantum Leap.  I liked Abby in the beginning when she behaved like a grown up then they turned her into a gigantic 12 year old  and all the quirky weirdos stopped being interesting/funny and just became cliches.

Edited by Magnumfangirl
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On 5/24/2018 at 10:59 PM, Pyanfar said:

Had to re-watch before I could be sure.  I think they retconned Gibbs' age again.  According to last night's headstone, he's now 63 or 64.  Have to check the other episodes, but I think he was younger on the earlier headstones.

The headstone showed his birth year as 1954.  In Heartland, he said he left for the Marines after graduation, the implication being high school,  in 1976 which would put his birth year at approximately 1958.  So yeah, he went from 60 to 64 

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12 minutes ago, pally said:

The headstone showed his birth year as 1954.  In Heartland, he said he left for the Marines after graduation, the implication being high school,  in 1976 which would put his birth year at approximately 1958.  So yeah, he went from 60 to 64 

According to Wikipedia, you're dead on:

Quote

In the backstory, Gibbs was born on May 2, 1958, (in S3 E8 Under Covers, his birthday falls on the same day as the Marine Corps birthday ball which is held on November 10 every year) and was shown in the episode "Heartland" to have grown up in Stillwater, Pennsylvania.[3]

Gibbs enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1976 and was a military police non-commissioned officer at Camp Lejeune[13] before becoming a Scout Sniper.

I didn't see the headstone with Gibbs' birthdate - just Shannon's (1955). I don't have a clear memory of whether or not she was supposed to be older than him (not out of the question, though). Wikipedia didn't give any of her particulars.

Quote

Shannon - In the episode "Heartland", Gibbs is revealed by flashbacks to have met his first wife, Shannon (portrayed in that episode by Aviva Baumann), while waiting at the Stillwater train platform in 1976, where she tells him about her rules for life that would inspire a similar set of Gibbs' own that he now teaches to his subordinate agents at NCIS. In "Hiatus (Part II)", they were stated to have married in April 1982, and Kelly (Mary Mouser) was born in July 1983.

It doesn't make much sense for them to make him older than canon, though. Unless it's a way to usher him out to retirement.

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12 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

According to Wikipedia, you're dead on:

I didn't see the headstone with Gibbs' birthdate - just Shannon's (1955). I don't have a clear memory of whether or not she was supposed to be older than him (not out of the question, though). Wikipedia didn't give any of her particulars.

It doesn't make much sense for them to make him older than canon, though. Unless it's a way to usher him out to retirement.

Being one of the few I guess that thinks he has aged significantly in the last year, I wonder if maybe they are trying to catch him up to how he looks. (keeping in mind that people have a skewed idea of what people look like a specific ages, though this discrepancy usually affects women on screen more than men).. Or maybe they are going to make a case for retirement.

Or maybe they just don't remember the specific details of "canon" the way fans do. The folks in the design, prop, and set-dressing departments probably change more frequently over the years. Writers change. Producers, show-runners change. The ACTORS probably don't even remember details about their characters the way die-hard fans do. I'm thinking that just not getting the date right because they didn't remember or didn't bother to research, is every bit as possible as deliberately ret-conning Gibbs age.

Edited by slothgirl
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