Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S06.E10: START


Recommended Posts

Just now, rhys said:

I think Stan should be worried about being seen when he was at/near Paige's apartment since his boss told him he put agents on it. Stan admitted to being there but said she wasn't home. But what if the agents were in place and saw a bit of Paige & her family or Stan?

If they had been, then he and Aderholt would be having a totally different conversation.

  • Love 7
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

That's...quite a stretch.

Paige was involved in a few surveillance operations the FBI knows nothing about, in cars whose origins and fates are not even slightly of interest to the series.  There is no evidence that she's done anything.

The show has made a point of showing that the FBI has developed a means of tracking down the cars used in the KGB operations, and the safe houses. Paige was in them. Why is it a stretch to not hand wave it away?

  • Love 2
Link to comment
5 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Not true. When they got married they both used their full names. Also Russian names don't work like that. If you know someone you use a shorter version of their name, unless you're making a point in some way. He should have called them either Mikhail and Nadyezhda or Mischa and Nadia.

Unless it was meant to indicate that he was closer to Mischa than to Nadezhda.

  • Love 4
Link to comment
15 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Ooh!  Ooh!  [raises hand excitedly]

i think only after Liz lost her kids did Liz fully appreciate them.  So she remembers back to when she most wanted to shed her family, and thought of them as just her cover — smoking in bed with Gregory and saying she doesn’t care about being a mom.    

But then she sees the portrait from Erica and Gregory disappears.  The art / drawing lessons with Erica were about Liz tapping in to a very real part of herself.  But now that’s gone too.  Who Liz truly is was, in part, her family and part mostly hidden from herself her whole life.  And now she’s lost a lot of that.  

I thought it was the future, Elizabeth is having a dream and wakes up.  She drew the pictures.

  • Love 3
Link to comment
(edited)
39 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Stan let them save Gorbachev, and thus facilitated the end of the Cold War.  A win for the USA, in the end,.

That. I know a lot of people are down on Stan for letting them go, but in the world of this show it's a damn good thing he did. And I do believe that factored into his decision.

Edited by MJ Frog
Words.
  • Love 22
Link to comment
(edited)

yes, I think Paige will likely evade prosecution.  P&E have been operating in the DC area for almost 20 years with only "one thumb print" from Phillip at Clark's faux apartment (iirc) .... 

Most espionage (and terrorism) prosecutions end in plea bargains and/or trades ... deeds may be confessed to in exchange for carrots (not sticks).   Hopefully Paige will sober up before Claudia's apartment/safe house is identified (although there's likely no useful evidence there) and she will either return to her apartment or (better) show up at Stan's.  "We" know P&E's kill list ... they (the FBI have no reason to link Elizabeth (much less Paige) with the General's "suicide" ... with P&E out of reach,  with Stan in her corner, and maybe an "nervous breakdown"  Paige's "issues" will be many but likely not legal jeopardy. 

The fact that Henry knows nothing .... about P&E or Paige is critical here. 

Edited by SusanSunflower
  • Love 16
Link to comment
4 minutes ago, jjj said:

When Philip suddenly gave up in the garage and said "We just had a job to do" -- Elizabeth gave him such a look, which said "Interesting choice.  Honesty."

And argggh, Philip perfectly playing Stan -- "You should have stayed in EST.  If you stayed in EST, you'd know what to do." 

I can't tell you how much I hate Phil using EST judo on Stan. Ugh and egads.

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

With the tenor of how this ended.....I don't think it insinuated that Paige would go to prison.  P and E had hope for both of the kids.  

Yeah, they made P and E idiots in the final episode, too.

  • Love 5
Link to comment
(edited)
1 minute ago, Bannon said:

I can't tell you how much I hate Phil using EST judo on Stan. Ugh and egads.

It was a little bit of Manchurian Candidate, wasn't it?  The secret trigger Stan did not know was there, but Philip did. 

Edited by jjj
  • Love 7
Link to comment
5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I like to think that Martha and Philip bumped into each other 

And they're back in a home they might not even recognize, especially Elizabeth.

But I will be needing a mini series explaining to me how Oleg was bargained out of jail by his government and the US when everyone realized what he was up to, and he made it home to live with his wife and kid and parents and is living a fantastic life from now on. I dont care, I just want it damn it!

I had the same thought about Martha. 

And about being back in Mother Russia.  Wasn't there a line along the way about how different it would be after 20 years?

Maybe, just maybe, FX will give us some closure on the website. 

  • Love 5
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Bannon said:

The show has made a point of showing that the FBI has developed a means of tracking down the cars used in the KGB operations, and the safe houses. Paige was in them. Why is it a stretch to not hand wave it away?

Because none of this is brought up at all as a jeopardy issue (if it was, do you not think that Philip and Elizabeth would have mentioned it, meticulous as they are?).  It's very pronounced, in fact, that the FBI doesn't have anything on Paige in the show.

  • Love 14
Link to comment
44 minutes ago, mattie0808 said:

And weren't we waiting for photos from the park of Phillip?

Yes, they had them and were asking Father Andrei who that guy was. The photos were not so crystal clear that even Aderholt could recognize Philip.

  • Love 8
Link to comment
4 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

yes, I think Paige will likely evade prosecution.  P&E have been operating in the DC area for almost 20 years with only "one thumb print" from Phillip at Clark's faux apartment (iirc) .... 

Most espionage (and terrorism) prosecutions end in plea bargains and/or trades ... deeds may be confessed to in exchange for carrots (not sticks).   Hopefully Paige will sober up before Claudia's apartment/safe house is identified (although there's likely no useful evidence there) and she will either return to her apartment or (better) show up at Stan's.  "We" know P&E's kill list ... they (the FBI have no reason to link Elizabeth (much less Paige) with the General's "suicide" ... with P&E out of reach,  with Stan in her corner, and maybe an "nervous breakdown"  Paige's "issues" will be many but likely not legal jeopardy. 

What's going to happen when they suck up hair from the KGB cars Paige was in, and do DNA analysis on it, against hair they get from the Jennings' home?

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Because none of this is brought up at all as a jeopardy issue (if it was, do you not think that Philip and Elizabeth would have mentioned it, meticulous as they are?).  It's very pronounced, in fact, that the FBI doesn't have anything on Paige in the show.

Yes, if we ignore what the writers previously wrote. That's bad writing.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
(edited)
11 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Who were the specific names of people that Stan confronted them about? Oleg and who else?

Mr. and Mrs. Teacup.

14 minutes ago, SeanC said:

That's...quite a stretch.

Paige was involved in a few surveillance operations the FBI knows nothing about, in cars whose origins and fates are not even slightly of interest to the series.  There is no evidence that she's done anything.

I liked how Paige seemed to have her own EST-type understanding of where she wouldn't go from the start. She was honest with Stan not, I don't think, to manipulate him but because she really isn't a natural spy. She was back to the old "I must be understood" Paige. And like Gregory, who we saw a glimpse of, whatever she bought about Elizabeth's cause, she wasn't going to Russia. That whole thing was like a set that was gone now.

9 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Unless it was meant to indicate that he was closer to Mischa than to Nadezhda.

But he knows Elizabeth just fine. I doubt if they were speaking Russian he'd use a formal you with Elizabeth and the informal with Philip.

Of course, his confused emotions about his best friend Philip and his desire to be there for Henry rather than be the guy who arrested or shot Henry’s parents also factored in.  

Must have been so weird for Stan to have his bff Philip suddenly being like, "But Gorbachev!" because he cares about that.

I did also love Philip's line about how all those years they finally get something really important to help their country and after all the years of being terrified of Americans...it's fucking Russians.

Edited by sistermagpie
  • Love 16
Link to comment
26 minutes ago, GussieK said:

But Philip really played him at the end. But I think he truthfully thought of Stan as his friend. 

These two statements contradict each other.  Friends don't do what Phillip did to Stan.  They do what Stan did.  All for two people who don't give a shit about what happens to him in the aftermath.  As long as they got they wanted.  Selfish assholes till the bitter end.  I don't care that they felt some emotion at leaving the kids behind.  They should have never put them in that position, to begin with, but Mother Russia comes first, last, always.  Everyone else will be left holding the bag for them.  Paige and Stan betray their country for two people who, in the end, only saw them as a means to an end.  Henry left with knowing that his entire existence was a lie without anyone to turn to.  All the countless innocent people killed who will never have justice.  But hey! Phillip and Elizabeth will "get used to" their new lives in Russia.  Just peachy.

Also, disliking the finale for some very valid reasons does not make one a "hater."  

  • Love 19
Link to comment
Just now, Bannon said:

Yes, if we ignore what the writers previously wrote. 

No, not at all.  We have no idea where Elizabeth even got the vehicles she used in the operations Paige was on.  That was never a plot point in the series.  Nobody ever brings it up as a jeopardy issue.  The show gave us a dramatic, and fairly open-ended, setup for Paige, but the specter of hitherto-unknown DNA testing isn't part of it.

  • Love 14
Link to comment
46 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

The looks on Eliabeth's and Philip's faces when they saw Paige outside the train.  Such an emotional gut punch.  

So many scenes I would like to comment on, but I'm just tired.  This scene, when they both see Paige has left the train, hit me the hardest because they were separated when they saw her and Philip has to move up the train and sit by Elizabeth. They are both shattered and they can't show it. They can't hold each other and share their pain in any way.  I don't know. I wasn't a big Paige fan, although she did get much better this last season.

Philip and Elizabeth caused a lot of pain, but their children made sure they didn't get away with everything.

  • Love 14
Link to comment

The "evidence" she was in the car leads to what?  (She is her mother's daughter, she accompanied her mom??? Proving what?)  Tell me when they find E's hair ....   P&E will likely continue to be "of interest" but not as much as the other active illegals they are chasing ... It will be months before all those DNA tests are finalized (assuming that very expensive needle-in-a-haystack is completed).   

There isn't much physical evidence and without P&E or Paige's cooperation, it might amount to a small mountain of circumstantial evidence ... but it also (embarassingly) demonstrates their helplessness in connecting the dots ...."The Ones Who Got Away" is not a sought-after headline ....  The investigation may smoulder but not burn. 

  • Love 8
Link to comment
(edited)
58 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

   Stan repeatedly said “I don’t care who runs your country!” but on some level I think he finally realized it did matter if Gorbachev stayed in power or not.  He finally thought about the bigger picture as Oleg begged him to do.  

Of course, his confused emotions about his best friend Philip and his desire to be there for Henry rather than be the guy who arrested or shot Henry’s parents also factored in.  

Agreed. One reason he let them go was because of the bigger picture. Oleg really did get through to him. And he heard how important it was to Philip and Elizabeth. I’m glad he/we got to hear Philip’s patriotism come out again. He cares about who the leader of his country is. Of course, he does. For all his time in America- he is Russian. And Philip cares about the world, too. And so does Stan. 

The personal aspect of it was there too, of course. Very much so. Philip was mostly being honest I think- but he certainly was trying to get Stan to let them go. 

I like that Stan didn’t go into some long recitation of the murders and fallout. No talk of Martha, etc. That wasn’t really the point right then. Not on this show anyway. The point is they were spies. They were his friends. For real. And I think he identified with them a bit- as fellow patriots. 

Edited by Erin9
  • Love 16
Link to comment
(edited)
5 minutes ago, AlwaysWatching said:

Philip and Elizabeth caused a lot of pain, but their children made sure they didn't get away with everything.

This statement says it all. Their children were the ones that delivered their punishment. I always thought that these characters would end up in a hell of their own making and they did.

Edited by Ellaria Sand
  • Love 19
Link to comment
6 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

When did they say that they had photos of Philip meeting with Father Andre?

Aderholt showed the photos to Father Andrei -- we saw them, also. 

  • Love 3
Link to comment
2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

No, not at all.  We have no idea where Elizabeth even got the vehicles she used in the operations Paige was on.  That was never a plot point in the series.  Nobody ever brings it up as a jeopardy issue.  The show gave us a dramatic, and fairly open-ended, setup for Paige, but the specter of hitherto-unknown DNA testing isn't part of it.

Ok, so the show specifically mentions that the FBI has the means to track down the cars the KGB used. We know Paige was in those cars. We know invetigative techniques in 1987 would have allowed the FBI to link hair in those cars to hair in the Jennings home. But it is a stretch to think the FBI will use techniques readily available to identify Paige as having been on FBI operations?  Members of the audience are to simply ignore what the FBI does, so as to maintain doubt about how likely it will be that Paige is arrested?

We aren't going to agree about this. That's o.k..

Link to comment
57 minutes ago, jjj said:

Oh, Philip and Elizabeth REALLY played Stan -- "We don't kill people."  He will never know what he let them get away with.  And he saw her vicious work. 

I think he knew. He’s not stupid. 

Philip was mostly honest with him. So was Paige. Elizabeth lied about the killing and tried to protect Paige, but, I would expect as much. She wanted to get away. 

  • Love 10
Link to comment
53 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

If they stay protected by Arkady and Co. they could talk or maybe even see the kids again after the USSR is dissolved, right?

I wouldn’t think so.  Putin re-created the KGB as the FSB, their agents would still be banned from most countries.

  • Love 2
Link to comment
Quote

I think Paige is there to be his family. She's there to help him understand their parents. She wasn't just worried about Henry. She didn't want him to hate their parents and not understand them.

 

He has no reason to trust or believe anything coming from her.  She lied to him too.  She chose not to tell him and bring him into the fold when she found out about her parents.  And no, she didn't keep quiet to protect him.  She liked the attention knowing got her.  I don't buy her super sudden interest in Henry.  There was absolutely no build up, and there was the opportunity to do so, to any sort of meaningful bond or relationship between Paige and Henry.  And really, what does she have to tell him about their parents? She didn't know or understand them.  She only knew the lies they told her.  She knows nothing about who they are or what they did.  She'd just be repeating more lies to Henry and he's had enough people lying to him for a lifetime.  She's also in no position to do anything for him.  It was good to see that apparently, the school hadn't kicked him out after finding out his parents were spies.

  • Love 9
Link to comment
7 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

This statement says it all. Their children were the ones that delivered their punishment. I always thought that these characters would end up in a hell of their own making and they did.

Exactly. They’ll miss their kids terribly. That’s a huge price to pay. 

But- I think they’ll be okay at the same time. They are survivors and have each other. And their kids have each other. No one is alone. 

  • Love 12
Link to comment
10 minutes ago, SusanSunflower said:

The "evidence" she was in the car leads to what?  (She is her mother's daughter, she accompanied her mom??? Proving what?)  Tell me when they find E's hair ....   P&E will likely continue to be "of interest" but not as much as the other active illegals they are chasing ... It will be months before all those DNA tests are finalized (assuming that very expensive needle-in-a-haystack is completed).   

There isn't much physical evidence and without P&E or Paige's cooperation, it might amount to a small mountain of circumstantial evidence ... but it also (embarassingly) demonstrates their helplessness in connecting the dots ...."The Ones Who Got Away" is not a sought-after headline ....  The investigation may smoulder but not burn. 

The FBI is not going to spare any resource on this matter. It will have the highest priority. The cars will be found. All the human DNA in it is going to be analyzed. It will be established that Paige was in a car used in KGB operations, along with our now headless and handless corpse in Chicago. Paige is very unlikely to skate.

  • Love 3
Link to comment
1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

“It feels strange.”

”You’ll get used to it.”

That’s what they said to each other when we saw a flashback of them in the cheap motel room on their first night in the USA, wasn’t it?

Really?! Wow. 

  • Love 1
Link to comment
18 minutes ago, GussieK said:

The EST thing always bothered me because I remember it as a Scientology like cult. 

It bothered me because I never bought that it would have any appeal to Stan or Phil.

  • Love 7
Link to comment
4 minutes ago, KBrownie said:

He has no reason to trust or believe anything coming from her.  She lied to him too.  She chose not to tell him and bring him into the fold when she found out about her parents.  And no, she didn't keep quiet to protect him.  She liked the attention knowing got her.  I don't buy her super sudden interest in Henry.  There was absolutely no build up, and there was the opportunity to do so, to any sort of meaningful bond or relationship between Paige and Henry.  And really, what does she have to tell him about their parents? She didn't know or understand them.  She only knew the lies they told her.  She knows nothing about who they are or what they did.  She'd just be repeating more lies to Henry and he's had enough people lying to him for a lifetime.  She's also in no position to do anything for him.  It was good to see that apparently, the school hadn't kicked him out after finding out his parents were spies.

I’m sure the school doesn’t know that yet.  The FBI would keep that under wraps while they tried to figure out what they could about other sleeper agents, or tradecraft, whatever.  I’m a bit surprised the show implies Stan tells Henry the truth so soon.

  • Love 4
Link to comment

I'm not sure what I think of it as a whole. I need to ruminate on it for awhile.

I'm sorta surprised we didn't get a flashforward to 1989  when the Soviet Union fell. I really wanted to see that, especially Elizabeth's reaction to all of it.

The garage scene really was one of the best scenes in the series. And the goodbyes to Henry on the phone nearly killed me.

I love that Paige got off the plane. I totally believe she did it for Henry. It was obvious she kept thinking about him being all alone. But I don't know if she was fully prepared that Henry was probably going to carry a lot of anger for years, and I'm not sure if she knew how much work it would take to rebuild that relationship. Maybe Stan would help. I would like to believe Stan did become the surrogate dad Philip wanted him to be.

Where would Paige go from there?  I'm not really sure. Maybe she continue to try and forge her self into a superspy like her Mom wanted or maybe she would revert and be the most patriotic American. It's really hard to guess. I feel like she was very open-ended.

I see Stan leaving the Bureau and maybe doing private security or consulting or something. But he knows he isn't a very good Agent. I also think he would find a quiet way to break up with Renee.

Philip and Elizabeth at the end. I don't know. I wouldn't call it happy. I worry for Elizabeth that Claudia might have some revenge in mind. Hope Philip finds his other son. I also see Philip sneaking back in 10-15 years to see the kids.

  • Love 8
Link to comment
1 minute ago, Erin9 said:

Exactly. They’ll miss their kids terribly. That’s a huge price to pay. 

But- I think they’ll be okay at the same time. They are survivors and have each other. And their kids have each other. No one is alone. 

And both P&E left their homes and families behind at a young age. They will continue to tell themselves that their children will be fine. It sounds harsh but it is who they are. They lived in shadows for years and never asked themselves a lot of tough questions.

  • Love 12
Link to comment

On rewatch, I have a theory on Renee: maybe she’s just meant to be symbolic, in that you can never completely know another person.  You can’t even fully know yourself.  Philip was trying to find himself in EST, Liz started to explore her creative side, Stan’s identity has mostly been the FBI (which, quite frankly he’s not great at), and Paige has no idea who she really is.  

Maybe Paige’s vodka drinking at Claudia’s was her private farewell to that part of her life.  And her plan is to go to Stan and hope he protects her for Henry’s sake.

  • Love 21
Link to comment

In a way though, it was Oleg and Paige who were alone. Henry with Stan, P and E and Paige in that apt by herself. That was her biggest fear..being alone. 

Can someone do a list of places they were.  Where was the McDonalds, train stop, airline flight, border gate, etc. ?

  • Love 2
Link to comment
×
×
  • Create New...