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Whiskey Cavalier - General Discussion


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This show was pretty fast-paced and I loved the beginning. But I felt like the ending was rushed where suddenly they were all working together and setting up the series. Maybe I missed more set-up.

Josh Hopkins looked rough in this. Didn't he always play the charismatic handsome guy? It took me a few scenes to even recognize him here. I saw that Scott Foley is a producer of this show, maybe he didn't want a guy to look more handsome than him? 

Speaking of Scott Foley, this show's pacing reminded me of Alias and that reminded me he was married to Jennifer Garner eons ago.

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3 hours ago, Jadzia said:

saw that Scott Foley is a producer of this show, maybe he didn't want a guy to look more handsome than him? 

It’s a Bill Lawerence created and produced show which is 100% why dime eyes got the job, it also doesn’t appear that he will be a regular.

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6 hours ago, kickingnames said:

I remember TJW from the short-lived Matthew Perry show Go On, so I'm enjoying his comedic timing again. 

Me too -- ABC screwed me over with Deception last year, so they better not do that again.

That's where I know him from! I liked him more than the leads. 

I loved Deception too.

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5 hours ago, Jadzia said:

Josh Hopkins looked rough in this. Didn't he always play the charismatic handsome guy? It took me a few scenes to even recognize him here

Whoa! Wait. That was him? As the bro (Ray) banging the lead's fiancee? If so, I did not recognize him at all.

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Yeah Josh Hopkins is up there with Breckin Myers and some others as actors whose faces just upset me.. Nothing to do with talent or the roles they choose.. Its damn near immaterial once I see them I get a scowly face... It was no different here.. Plus hia character is a jerk/doof who I assume will continue to fail upwards as some of his ilk are wont to do... As for the show plenty of its parts are things that are harder for me to watch and enjoy blindly  as I close in 26...  Overt sexual tension between the leads.. Paving the way for endless will they won't they scenarios... A tough as nails bad ass female who " won't let anyone in" a rainbow coalition of subordinates who will no doubt be cheering on the white heroes from the sidelines... The black boss who may pop up every few episodes just to shake his head at his rascally "never follow the rules" leads..  Then dissapears to black boss land with countless others like Lance Reddick on The Wire.. Both the captains  on Castle to name a few... A Latina ( in this case but generally a POC from a part of the world with more ethnically identifiable surnames) woman withe an ethnically ambiguous last name which generally just serves as a way to have an "American" spouse or Parent... I might be wrong about this.. But a Gay best friend... Even with all that.. Knowing and seeing it as it unfurled.. I enjoyed myself.. Scott Foley was... As usual... Charming... I liked that his character was a sensitive type.. Tho it almost bordered on creepy... They all played off each other well and I'm looking fwd to next week

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Just saw this EW article with show creator David Hemingson. The first thing I read: 

Quote

Whiskey Cavalier creator David Hemingson cites Moonlighting as an enormous influence on his new ABC series Whiskey Cavalier, while also likening his main characters to gender-swapped takes on Cheers‘ Sam Malone (Ted Danson) and Diane Chambers (Shelley Long). Those are some big television shoes to fill — a task that falls to Scott Foley (Scandal) and Lauren Cohan (The Walking Dead).

Moonlighting AND Cheers? Yeah, these two are never, ever, ever getting back together. 

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I can see why Lauren Cohan would pursue this role rather than accept second best in TWD.... this looks like it was fun to shoot whereas TWD just looks like a chore these days.... can’t wait for the next episode...

However, count me as one of those who just don’t get the allure of Scott Foley and/or Bill Lawrence’s HUGE man crush on him....

Edited by BellyLaughter
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23 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I had an even bigger problem understanding how a CIA agent and a Fibbie would be part of the same team. Different jurisdictions, no? 

If the "team" was a joint law enforcement task force based in the United States, the CIA officer could theoretically be given a Special Deputy U.S. Marshal badge, which would give them law enforcement officer privileges, but that ain't this show.  And, honestly, I'm not sure what this show is yet, since we didn't really see the "team" working as a proper team.

But, the show seems to be about an espionage-y team that works outside the United States.  That scenario is classic CIA territory and not at all FBI territory, especially as the FBI has no true law enforcement jurisdiction outside the United States.  The FBI does work on investigations outside the States and liaison with foreign law enforcement agencies, primarily through legal attachés who are based in embassies (FBI.gov summary).  Yet, this show makes it look like the FBI has a mini field office in the Paris embassy.

So, the whole FBI vs CIA thing doesn't really work for me.  If they wanted to do antagonistic agencies where overlapping jurisdictions actually make sense, a joint team with the CIA and some other foreign intelligence service, say the U.K.'s Secret Intelligence Service (SIS or "MI6" in Hollywood jargon) would work much better, drama-wise. (And, on the business end of things, could perhaps open up the option of a joint production to spread out the financing and risk.)  Also, an option for antagonistic inter-federal agencies would have been to make one of the leads work for the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), which is under the Department of Defense.  Like the CIA, they have a Clandestine section.

* * *

  • I guess the show is just going to overlook the fact that the NSA Guy kinda paid off a Russian mercenary to kill someone (the helicopter pilot).
  • They didn't give Ana Ortiz too much to do except confirm the identity of a CIA operative over an apparently unsecured phone line.  And, how did she even have access to the file?
  • Speaking of bad OPSEC, the characters' codenames are based on their initials (Foley mentioned this in an interview).
  • Also, discussing your latest op in the public lobby of an Embassy is not a good idea.
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3 hours ago, Just Here said:

So, the whole FBI vs CIA thing doesn't really work for me.  If they wanted to do antagonistic agencies where overlapping jurisdictions actually make sense, a joint team with the CIA and some other foreign intelligence service, say the U.K.'s Secret Intelligence Service (SIS or "MI6" in Hollywood jargon) would work much better, drama-wise. (And, on the business end of things, could perhaps open up the option of a joint production to spread out the financing and risk.)  Also, an option for antagonistic inter-federal agencies would have been to make one of the leads work for the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), which is under the Department of Defense.  Like the CIA, they have a Clandestine section.

I really don’t understand why they didn’t have Will be CIA and have Frankie be foreign intelligence. It would have made a lot more sense and Lauren Cohen could have used her natural accent. 

For the most part I was able to ignore how wrong they got the FBI. The one time that did bother me was the idea that Edgar being an American citizen meant the FBI had jurisdiction. Did someone forget that the CIA is American intelligence? 

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I wonder if the reason the show's premier got the second banana/spring lineup position was in large part due to this confusing mishmash of real and fictional spy agency jurisdictions?

And, did they get it wrong accidentally or on purpose? Maybe they were going for something based on the way Madam Secretary  uses real country names with made up names of political figures. M-Sec pulls it off, but what they're doing on this show with real spy agency acronyms and fictional jurisdictions strains credulity to the point of making it it hard for the viewers to not get distracted with head scratching.

Or did they just assume the average viewer doesn't know that jurisdictional stuff? —which is a pretty dumb assumption given that most viewers would have watched several similar shows that emphasized these jurisdictional differences for purposes of plot points.

Maybe it will all get ironed out in the second episode.

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5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if the reason the show's premier got the second banana/spring lineup position was in large part due to this confusing mishmash of real and fictional spy agency jurisdictions?

 

Mmm, I don't think so.  This was the first show that ABC picked up from a pilot and, as it films in Europe, I'm guessing it is an expensive one.  I think that they wanted to give their two top new shows (this and AMLT) an equal shot.  

For the record, I think this one has a better chance.

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6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if the reason the show's premier got the second banana/spring lineup position was in large part due to this confusing mishmash of real and fictional spy agency jurisdictions?

I doubt it. Most shows get it wrong and it never seems to effect ratings. My guess they thought it would be better to have two easily recognizable US agencies. 

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I loved it. I’ve rewatched the pilot 3 times and will probably watch it again before episode 2. So fun and exciting. The cast is great and their chemistry is amazing. I enjoyed it so much more than I expected to.

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On 2/26/2019 at 1:29 PM, Jadzia said:

Josh Hopkins looked rough in this. Didn't he always play the charismatic handsome guy? It took me a few scenes to even recognize him here. I saw that Scott Foley is a producer of this show, maybe he didn't want a guy to look more handsome than him? 

 His character was supposed to be a screw up / bottom-of-the-barrel agent so I assume his look was supposed to convey him not being FBI standard issue.   That, or Josh has been ridden hard and put up wet recently.   I'm still not clear if his character survived at the end or not.  You would think he'd be booted out of the FBI if he did for being a slacker and letting the evidence get stolen.   I expected Gigi (really?  She's French so let's name her Gigi!) to be an agent playing Whiskey so having the whole thing resolved in the first episode was a surprise.  I expect she'll still be back ass some kind of spoiler for the leads just when they start to get together.

 So...this is this year's Deception, which was last year's this year's Time After Time.  Will the third time be the charm for ABC's annual romantic dramedy?   The fate of the other two makes me a bit leery of investing in this one, and I don't find it as interesting as Deception so far.

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I was giving serious side eye to the guy in the beginning of the episode who decided to go ahead and propose to his girlfriend right after someone got flattened by a car in the street. 

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It bugs the hell out of me that American operatives like Will have codenames, especially unwieldy ones like "Whiskey Cavalier".  As I understand it codenames are for agents (as in the enemy agents that are subverted by friendly intelligence personnel and turned into sources).  If Will were working as a nonofficial/illegal officer he might use a pseudonym (that isn't as unwieldy as "Whiskey Cavalier") and if he communicating tactically over comms he'd use a callsign (that is... short).

Yeah, this is why I couldn't hack it through Covert Affairs.

Really the only reason I have to watch this is that Lauren Cohan is extremely pretty and I liked her in the first few seasons of TWD that I watched.

And yeah, the whole "FBI overseas" thing is dumb.  FBI agents may be involved in investigating crimes against Americans overseas (see the FBI team sent to Saudi Arabia to investigate a terrorist bombing on a military base that formed the premise for the movie "The Kingdom") but they're not going to be there doing counterterrorism in allied countries that have their own counterterror forces.  And there's no way in hell they would be doing counterterrorism without working under local leadership (although that would open a pathway for our rugged white American hero to come into contact with a serious but sexy French DGSI officer).

A better alternative to the FBI vs CIA dynamic with both American leads would be to make both Frankie and Will CIA, but have one of them be Special Activities Division and so playing outside the rules.  Probably Will, since he's the cowboy.

Edited by Mars477
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18 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Or did they just assume the average viewer doesn't know that jurisdictional stuff? —which is a pretty dumb assumption given that most viewers would have watched several similar shows that emphasized these jurisdictional differences for purposes of plot points.

Since the CIA/FBI dichotomy is the key element of the premise of this show, it's quite appalling how inaccurate it was, to the point of distraction.

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23 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Since the CIA/FBI dichotomy is the key element of the premise of this show, it's quite appalling how inaccurate it was, to the point of distraction.

I found it distracting that nearly all of this was shot in Prague and it’s suburbs with CGI landmarks regardless of where they were supposed to be but I imagine much like the CIA/FBI thing it won’t matter to a most viewers because this is a light romdramady. Just like I ignore it being so obviously Prague because it’s better than being so obviously Vancouver. 

Edited by biakbiak
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On 2/25/2019 at 11:45 AM, Netfoot said:

I liked this!  I happen to like both principle actors, and think this could be an enjoyable show.

But:

A 'tarball' is a file, generated by the 'tar' utility, found on most UNIX systems.  Your tarball (with a .tar suffix) is commonly compressed with something like 'gzip', giving a .tar.gz or .tgz suffix.  Think of it as the UNIX version of a .ZIP file.  In other words, it isn't something you can hide in a tooth, any more than you could hide any file in a tooth.  Why do the writers of so many shows insist on misusing technical terms?  Is it supposed to impress the viewers with how connected the writers are to the latest technology?  Because the term has been around for at least 40 years.   TAR = Tape ARchive, so called because this utility originated in the day when they used reel-to-reel tapes to archive data.

Yeah, I thought that was bizarre.  Hasn't anybody on the writing staff or in production ever unzipped a tarball?  Geez.

On 2/25/2019 at 12:54 PM, Trini said:

Tampon bomb - that's new!

Anyway, I wasn't really interested in this, because from the ads they seemed to hitting ALL the clichés of the genre with two very typical leads. But I did watch the 'sneak peek,' and I might be here for the supporting cast but I don't know if this will be regular viewing for me. This reminds me of Chuck a little bit.

I only watched because I was hoping for a show as fun as Chuck.  This wasn't - I doubt I will ever see a show that crosses genres in such an entertaining way as Chuck - but this was pretty good for what it is.  As long as I ignore the ridiculousness of the FBI having a field office and agents operating in Europe.  Oh, and the Whiskey Cavalier code name/alias bugs, too.

Thanks to whomever mentioned that the hacker was in the old show Go On.  I thought the actor looked familiar, but I haven't thought of that show since it aired.  I liked him and his character.

I only really know Scott Foley from Felicity, and he seemed like kind of an odd choice, but he did pretty well in the role.  And Lauren Conrad I only know from guest starring in Chuck, and I wasn't a fan of the character she played in that show.  She was better here, but I agree with others who wished she would have used her real accent.

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5 hours ago, AnnaRose said:

I only watched because I was hoping for a show as fun as Chuck.

I watched Chuck and enjoyed it, but I can't see much commonality between the two shows.  Chuck was pretty much an all-out slap-stick comedy routine, whereas this is at least trying to be a serious drama.  

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I hadn't meant to watch it, but liked it surprisingly. Total Eclipse of the Heart. was. awesome. 

Scott Foley reminds me of another actor, but I can't figure out who. James Marsden?

Loved Frankie and the FBI profiler gushing over each other. 

I didn't know Josh Hopkins would be on the show, so that was a pleasant bonus. 

I'll continue watching. Hopefully they'll continue with the light, fun theme. 

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1 hour ago, Netfoot said:

at least trying to be a serious drama.  

While definitely different than Chuck this show according to the creators and tone of the episode is most definitely not trying to be serious drama. It’s a dramedy about spies with maybe some romance. As noted above Moonlighting and Cheers were strong inspirations.

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9 hours ago, Mars477 said:

Really the only reason I have to watch this is that Lauren Cohan is extremely pretty and I liked her in the first few seasons of TWD that I watched.

I can't say I loved the show but it was okay. Cheesy, but entertaining. I've liked Lauren Cohen since I saw her in the Van Wilder sequel and Vampire Diaries and while she couldn't draw me to Walking Dead, I'll watch this show for her. Bummer that we only got the British accent version of her for her opening scene.

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Aww man, all this talk about Deception reminds me of how much I miss that show. Still bitter over THAT cancellation. But I definitely see the similarities between that show and this one, at least in terms of tone. This show is definitely leaning a bit more on the comedy/light-hearted humour aspect, rather than making it a straight out depressing drama. I'm still debating, though, whether this will go the Deception route for me, where I'll easily fall in love with it, or if it will go the Take Two route, where its potential is massively wasted and becomes a show that I stop watching after a couple of episodes. So far, I think it's a decently done show. It's fun, the characters are alright, and it got a few laughs out of me. 

I didn't mind Scott Foley's character and I did like Lauren Cohan's character. I didn't catch all the names right off the bat, so I'll have to look up the names for the time being.

I did like NSA hacker Edgar and I liked the FBI profiler Susan. The plot twists were fairly predictable but the show did entertain me enough where I wasn't annoyed...yet, at least.

Overall, I'll give this show a few more episodes. We'll see how it goes four episodes down the line.

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3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Is it?! I don't see that at all.

Well, I admit it isn't Citizen Kane but at least they don't have a Bat-Cave and spy secrets and abilities programmed into their brains....

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4 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

I had a smile on my face watching the whole 1x02 promo. I hope it's as fun as it looks, and not only that whoever puts those trailers together deserves a huge raise for making the episode sound so appealing.

Who doesn’t want to watch Lauren hanging on to a car roof? 😋

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28 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Who doesn’t want to watch Lauren hanging on to a car roof? 😋

I must say that I want to watch more for her comedic timing, which I'm thankful is truly revealed/fully exploited here.😁 Frankie is the deadly deadpan queen.

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On 2/26/2019 at 1:42 AM, TWP said:

Couldn't they have done one episode before introducing agent as surgeon? 

 A lot of time did seem to pass without an ambulance arriving, but would waiting 15 minutes to get her to a hospital to remove the piece of her shirt really have increased her chances of sepsis that much?

I was more worried that he didn't take 2 minutes to sterilize the knife that had just been used on raw vegetables with some actual whiskey, or even a flame.  Now, that's a source of infection!

Btw, when the "friend" finally came in after the surgery, holding the towel, I thought the reveal was going to be that he was the spy, that he hadn't called for an ambulance, and that he had a gun hidden under the towel.

On 2/25/2019 at 11:45 AM, Netfoot said:

I liked this!  I happen to like both principle actors, and think this could be an enjoyable show.

But:

A 'tarball' is a file, generated by the 'tar' utility, found on most UNIX systems.  Your tarball (with a .tar suffix) is commonly compressed with something like 'gzip', giving a .tar.gz or .tgz suffix.  Think of it as the UNIX version of a .ZIP file.  In other words, it isn't something you can hide in a tooth, any more than you could hide any file in a tooth.  Why do the writers of so many shows insist on misusing technical terms?  Is it supposed to impress the viewers with how connected the writers are to the latest technology?  Because the term has been around for at least 40 years.   TAR = Tape ARchive, so called because this utility originated in the day when they used reel-to-reel tapes to archive data.

Could the file be saved on a bit of hardware in the tooth?  Maybe they were saying "tarball " to sound modern and mysterious, instead of just saying he stole a file.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Could the file be saved on a bit of hardware in the tooth?

Sure.  They could store it on some sort of microchip, and store that in the tooth...  but then the interrogators would be like "Where is the microchip?"

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I mainly watched this because the trailer looked cute and generally enjoyed it. I haven’t watched any of the leads’ prior shows  (except Ugly Betty) so for a change of pace, I won’t keep thinking they’re someone else.  It looks like the kind of show where you just have to suspend disbelief, as in, “that could never happen” or “that’s completely wrong” etc. But it also looks like the kind of show that could easily cross the line between cute/charming and stupid/annoying. I suspect it will cross that line but will keep watching until it does.

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I am going to watch at least a couple more before I decide. I like the cast also like some others feel the end of episode was rushed.

Right now my biggest thing is are the wanting us to take it seriously or more campy? It kind of straddling the line we will see how it pans out.

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As instructed, man reaches into other man's front jeans pocket for a key.

"That's not the key."

How clever! It's been a few days since I've heard a line like that.

Oh to be 15 again. So many shows I'd find funny and/or engrossing.

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This show was waaaayyyyy over promo'd.  Yeah, the promos were clever and cute, with the fake watch/ring/tampon commercials.  But they were on All. The. Time.  If the tv weren't already on, and on ABC, I wouldn't have tuned in just because the hype was pissing me off.

That being said, I sort of liked it.  I wouldn't rush home to watch it, but it fills a gap where there's nothing else on.  It's not must see tv for me, but it's a fun hour.  But I pretty much thought the same thing about The Rookie, and I'll admit that's somewhat grown on me.

Also, for the comments above noting that they are shooting in Prague and cgi-ing in Paris landmarks - why didn't they just base the pilot in Prague?  There was no reason they had to be in Paris.  Except that it's Paris. 

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On 2/25/2019 at 11:54 AM, Trini said:

Tampon bomb - that's new!

Anyway, I wasn't really interested in this, because from the ads they seemed to hitting ALL the clichés of the genre with two very typical leads. But I did watch the 'sneak peek,' and I might be here for the supporting cast but I don't know if this will be regular viewing for me. This reminds me of Chuck a little bit.

Ok, now I have to check this out! 

(curse you Trini, in case I end up really liking it and it has to endure road bumps like Chuck did during its run - if even gets a second season, let alone 5 of them)

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(edited)
19 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Ok, now I have to check this out! 

(curse you Trini, in case I end up really liking it and it has to endure road bumps like Chuck did during its run - if even gets a second season, let alone 5 of them)

Heh! There are significant differences from Chuck, though. This show is similar in that it's a semi-comedic take on spies with a male/female pairing at the center - with the man being the 'emotional' one, and the woman the 'tough as nails' one.

For me, the biggest difference is that I'm not liking the two leads together like I liked the leads of Chuck at the end of its pilot. (I think he can do better; but YMMV.)

Edited by Trini
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2 hours ago, Trini said:

Heh! There significant differences from Chuck, though. This show is similar in that it's a semi-comedic take on spies with a male/female pairing at the center - with the man being the 'emotional' one, and the woman the 'tough as nails' one.

For me, the biggest difference is that I'm not liking the two leads together like I liked the leads of Chuck at the end of its pilot. (I think he can do better; but YMMV.)

I'm really only here to check it out for Lauren Cohan - being a Chuck, as well as a former SPN & TWD, fan - and how you mentioned the show (at least in the pilot) shares traits with Chuck.   Also, I don't mind the spy stuff, if done well.

If those two points of interest aren't enough to hold my interest after a few episodes, then it'll be time to move on.

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(edited)
21 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Well, I admit it isn't Citizen Kane but at least they don't have a Bat-Cave and spy secrets and abilities programmed into their brains....

Give them time!

19 hours ago, Videophile said:

I'm hoping that this will follow the tradition of Burn Notice, White Collar, et al. since USA Network has gotten out of the business.

YES! Actually, Burn Notice is what it kind of reminded me of, though I think Burn Notice was 1000 time better lol. This might get there though and I'd love it if it did. I miss Burn Notice so much!

11 hours ago, mojito said:

As instructed, man reaches into other man's front jeans pocket for a key.

"That's not the key."

How clever! It's been a few days since I've heard a line like that.

Yea, that was imo the worst thing about the pilot. 

Edited by peachmangosteen
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I want to like this, already it seems better than Magnum in the "yes yes we're putting two attractive people together who hate each other, oh dear whatever will happen?" department.

Fun action is a gap right now. White collar, burn notice, chuck... we miss you guys.

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On 2/27/2019 at 10:16 PM, AnnaRose said:

Yeah, I thought that was bizarre.  Hasn't anybody on the writing staff or in production ever unzipped a tarball?  Geez.

I doubt it. Most of the people would probably only have used standard Microsoft Office software. Even though I've worked in tech for over 30 years, I've only worked with .tar files on one project.

On 2/28/2019 at 3:41 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I was more worried that he didn't take 2 minutes to sterilize the knife that had just been used on raw vegetables with some actual whiskey, or even a flame.  Now,that's a source of infection!

I know, right? That bothered me more than anything in the whole show.

I was looking for something to watch during exercise - something light and fast paced, and this suits the bill. I thought it was an above average pilot for this sort of show. The only actors I knew were Scott Foley and Dylan Walsh, and Josh Hopkins was vaguely familar. Anyway, I enjoyed it. Loved the music (and the German version of Paint it Black), and the tampon bomb. I'm not going to worry too much about the accuracy of the various agencies operational limits, because it's not that kind of show. I'll save that for the serious ones that are trying to portray true to life investigations.

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