Whiskey Cavalier - General Discussion

[shapeshifter]

On 5/25/2019 at 2:50 AM, Jacks-Son said:

She was a super model???  Don't see it.  Anyway, Cobie Smulders will do nicely as a replacement.

Sorry, no, I didn't mean to imply Lauren Cohan was ever a supermodel. It was a typo.  I meant that, while she is as perfectly proportioned as any supermodel, she is not one (as far as I know),* and looks like she could be a formidable foe, or survive in the wild without a man to rescue her, or otherwise be a Jason Bourne, whereas a lot of the female leads in these roles do look like supermodels who couldn't lift anything heavier than a designer hand bag.
Not that women's purses can't be heavy . . .

* Wikipedia actually says Lauren Cohan was a model--hopefully they didn't get that from my post, LOL.

Edited May 26, 2019 by shapeshifter
another typo

[MissLucas]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Not that women's purses can't be heavy . . .

LOL! Mine is definitely giving me a nice work-out. But yeah, Bourne's Fiona was always pushing the suspension-of-disbelief-meter. Lauren Cohan has a body-type that makes her more believable as a fighter (in the Kibbe system she'd be a natural I think) - within the rules of tv-land of course.

I'm sad to see the show go. As many others have said there aren't enough light-hearted and fun shows around anymore. Maybe this would have worked better as a summertime show? The decision-making process of TPTB isn't always easy to understand. Show's hardly get a second chance - which  makes what happened to the Expanse all the more remarkable.

Good luck to all the people involved - I hope they find interesting (and longer-lived) jobs soon.

[Netfoot]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Not that women's purses can't be heavy . . .

Who needs a purse when your trousers have pockets?  I weighed my shorts once, and they came in at 9 lbs. with all the usual EDC in the pockets.

[Anela]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Sorry, no, I didn't mean to imply Lauren Cohan was ever a supermodel. It was a typo.  I meant that, while she is as perfectly proportioned as any supermodel, she is not one (as far as I know),* and looks like she could be a formidable foe, or survive in the wild without a man to rescue her, or otherwise be a Jason Bourne, whereas a lot of the female leads in these roles do look like supermodels who couldn't lift anything heavier than a designer hand bag.
Not that women's purses can't be heavy . . .

* Wikipedia actually says sheLauren Cohan was a model--hopefully they didn't get that from my post, LOL.

She apparently was a model. I read that years ago. 

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Who needs a purse when your trousers have pockets?  I weighed my shorts once, and they came in at 9 lbs. with all the usual EDC in the pockets.

The problem is that not all women's pants or skirts have pockets. 

And now back to our regularly scheduled program.
Oh. Wait. It was cancelled. 😞

[Quark]

I liked this show. A pity it was cancelled. The cast were great and the scenery was gorgeous.

[OoohMaggie]

On 5/26/2019 at 7:45 AM, shapeshifter said:

Sorry, no, I didn't mean to imply Lauren Cohan was ever a supermodel. It was a typo.  I meant that, while she is as perfectly proportioned as any supermodel, she is not one (as far as I know),* and looks like she could be a formidable foe, or survive in the wild without a man to rescue her, or otherwise be a Jason Bourne,

 Well if Kate Moss can get away with it I think Lauren should give it a go, if you like Lauren’s bad ass portrayal you should like her in Mile 22.

Edited May 27, 2019 by OoohMaggie

[Guest]

I hated Tina's character on Grey's Anatomy and that made me hate her initially on WC, so I was glad she ended up being bad.  

I'm sad this show is cancelled. I think it got better as the season went along, but by that point, it was too little too late. 

[Samwise979]

I was 3 episodes behind and finally caught up. Came in here and read 3 pages of comments and went through an emotional roller coaster. 

Show was cancelled. 😞😞😞

They might change their minds! 😁😁😁

Nope, really cancelled now. 😞😞😞

I normally don't start watching a show until I know it's been picked up for a second season for this exact reason. 

[weathered1]

It was particularly and unnecessarily borderline cruel to get everyone's (from the fans, to the showrunner, producers, and actors) hopes up, only to turn right around and basically say, "Psych!" It looks to me like they just wanted the higher ratings and social media engagement surrounding both the finale and the announcement that they could maybe, possibly be rethinking the cancellation. Given how quickly the decision came down about how it's really not coming back, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they never had any intention of reversing the cancellation. 

It's interesting to me that they did promote it quite well leading up to the premiere, but after that, the promotion noticeably decreased even as they were messing with the order in which the episodes aired. I think the latter hurt the show more than anything - that lack of consistency in the characters' behavior, etc., probably turned a lot of viewers off. 

It's really a shame that this happened because everything had really gelled by the end of the run, and the cast worked so well together. I haven't heard much - if any - optimism about the likelihood of the show actually being picked up by another network or streaming service, and that saddens me because the show, cast, et. al., deserved better than this.

[shapeshifter]

13 hours ago, weathered1 said:

Given how quickly the decision came down about how it's really not coming back, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they never had any intention of reversing the cancellation. 

My first reaction to the idea that TPTB knew from the beginning that this was a one-and-done show is: Conspiracy theory! But, can you move over on that runaway train and make room for me? —especially since they (1) Did not give a fall premier, (2) did not give it a January premier, (3) the locations (whether real or faked) probably made it expensive to shoot, and (4):

13 hours ago, weathered1 said:

messing with the order in which the episodes aired. . . . - that lack of consistency in the characters' behavior, etc., probably turned a lot of viewers off. 

But, hey, "that's show biz!" And having seen this out-of-order airing a few times on late spring or summer shows that were soon canceled, I will now know what that probably means in the future (don't get attached to a show with out-of-sequence episodes).

Plus, I completely agree with:

On May 25, 2019 at 3:30 AM, Jacks-Son said:

Silver lining in your cloud.  I've watched hundreds of shows come and go, and I just enjoy them while they last.  Every show eventually gets cancelled, I can't let that eventuality diminish my enjoyment of it.  If anything, I can always snark away.  I had a blast during "Under the Dome" 's run. Or "Flashforward".  Hell, even the worst of them are good for something, but the best of them, they're rare.  Those you enjoy while they last, you never know when the next one will come around.

[Thomas Crown]

I'm still disappointed that it won't be coming back. I have to admit the previews really didn't hook me but I decided to record the first few episodes anyway.  I was hooked after the 3rd or 4th episode (and that's with ABC running the episodes out of order!). I thought this show had potential to have a nice little run like Chuck did on NBC and was great counter programming to all those superhero shows out there. And I still love the opening credits with colourful animation style focusing on the colour red. It would have made for a great DVD cover art for a season one release.

[Bort]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

My first reaction to the idea that TPTB knew from the beginning that this was a one-and-done show is: Conspiracy theory! But, can you move over on that runaway train and make room for me? —especially since they (1) Did not give a fall premier, (2) did not give it a January premier, (3) the locations (whether real or faked) probably made it expensive to shoot,

Yeah, this is pretty much my thing. I don't think this show was ever meant to be anything but a summer burnoff. I'm sure the cast and crew were hoping it would be a modest enough hit that they'd get a pickup -- which ABC would've most certainly done if it had been -- but nope. For ABC, this show was a pump and dump.

And since this is what I suspected all along, I'm just not that shocked or disappointed by the cancellation. Also, I didn't really like it that much.

[marykat71702]

On 5/12/2019 at 5:50 PM, tennisgurl said:

I hope that this show manages to get picked up somewhere else, I am super bummed at its cancellation. It was such a fun, breezy kind of show that is perfect for Spring or Summer, and its so filled with tropes, that its almost revolutionary in its lack of irony. 

That is to say, it was just a fun show with good actors playing likable characters to awesome covers of song, and I am sad that it never got a chance. I mean, how do networks expect to build an audience for a show if they cancel everything so quickly?

Yes to all this. I mean, why do I bother getting invested in a new show anymore, when they're never given a chance? In this day and age of watching on delay via Hulu or other sites, real time ratings shouldn't matter as much as they used to.

[WendyCR72]

Don't think anyone is taking the show and it is completely done since TV Line reports Ana Ortiz has a new job. Oh, well. After the second cancellation, I really didn't expect anything, so the news wasn't all that surprising.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 1: It took me a while to warm up to it. It's got a weirdly cheap/expensive feel. Like, there are lots of location shots and even the interiors are kind of nice but the way it's shot looks very TV and a bit dreary. It reminds me a little of the later seasons of House. I was expecting the full on glamour they were selling during those Oscars commercials so that was a bit of a letdown. And it's not like you can't get that quality on TV. Chuck had it sometimes. Agent Carter. Hell, even The Bachelor can do it sometimes.

I know it's the pilot so I'm more forgiving but talking about Whiskey/Will's ex could get old real quickly. Same with Frankie's fear of intimacy.

I did think there were some nice moments of chemistry. The bantering and fighting wasn't too bad but they really sold it when he was operating on her on the table. 

All the side characters are a little stereotypical/archetypal at this point but it's a procedural so fine.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 2: I like this show. It makes me laugh. I also love all the music choices. So cheesy.

Wouldn't someone notice that little toy car driving down the street?

It's weird to me that everyone was out in the field like that given their job descriptions. I'd expected only Will and Frankie would be on the frontlines.

I thought they were going to pluck out his eyeballs from the beginning. Retinal scanner is a much cleaner solution.

Two episodes in and they've already caused a lot of damage. This is more action movie than routine spy stuff. I'm going to be surprised if we never get a boss character telling them they need to not cause so much chaos or stop costing so much money in damages.

I don't like Ray sticking around but I do appreciate Frankie's dig at Gigi being half their age.

Wait... what? Why was honeytrap their only plan? They didn't try to think through any other plans when most of the team doubted it would work?

Ugh, that was Frankie's special in to get Karen to open up to him? That's so cheesy. Tell me something no one knows about you? How many times has that been used? And there's no reason she would be so receptive to any of this. I am very suspicious of Karen. Who is even that nice to tourists? 

Wasn't Karen suspicious about eating in an entirely empty restaurant?

I like the fight choreography on this show. It's balanced. The bad guys aren't just props to be knocked down. The choreography shows that Will and Frankie are strong, skilled, and athletic but they're not going to automatically win. They need to earn it. There's some grappling. I do wish there were more accommodations for bigger/tougher bad guys like using more props or taking them out at the knees but maybe that'll happen in the rest of the season.

The locations are very attractive.

HA! I knew Karen was way too accommodating to be trusted!

Aw, it's cute that Frankie stood up for Will with Ray.

Lastly, it's weird to me that his name is Will Chase, the name of an actual actor and not so generic of a name that I could let it slide. 

[aradia22]

EPISODE 3: I know they've written Standish as the black comic relief and I should be upset about that. But his line delivery is so good he usually makes me laugh. I watched Go On and a little bit of Everybody Hates Chris. I feel like I've seen him on other shows too. I don't remember him being this much like Will Smith before. Him being stuck in the van did make me think of Hardison from Leverage but Hardison was a fully realized character and not an impersonation of another actor or a trope.

The foreign location travel porn continues to be gorgeous. The interiors are usually not bad. But I don't get why so much of this show is shot in this washed out, overexposed kind of style. It feels like it's early in the morning on a cloudy day.

The writing is getting a little messy. Military teams operate as a unit. I get Frankie being emotionally closed off but she should still be able to work with others. Insisting on being independent is more like being the star player on a basketball team who refuses to ever pass the ball. That's just bad strategy.

Why would they bring the bomb maker to go get his daughter? Maybe they needed her to trust them but they could have easily drugged her too or found another plan. 

The end of the episode was a bit boring aside from detonating the bomb. So far they're really not working hard enough on the case of the week. With some exceptions, Leverage always had you invested in the case of the week so you cared about the characters succeeding.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 4: 

So if this show is trying to be Leverage, Susan is clearly the Sophie (emotional intelligence, some manipulation of marks). Standish is the Hardison (tech guy, least experience in the field). I guess Francesca is the Elliot (muscle, emotionally closed off). And maybe Jay is the Parker (debatable but he's the most inscrutable at this point but generally highly competent). That leaves Will as Nathan Ford but they're very different which fits the different dynamics of the two shows. I still think it's weird Susan is out in the field and based on my one-to-one connections, I think it's the Francesca, Will, and Jay characters that need work. But however you slice it, I think the team dynamics are not right. Yeah Sophie/Nathan had their own will they/won't they in the middle of the team dynamic but this show seems to be struggling with whether it wants to be more about the two leads or more about the team.

I appreciated that they had to take on a bigger henchman together though again... would love some more props for the fight choreography. And not just guns. 

Again, I feel like for a spy, Francesca should be better at putting aside her feelings for the mission. She seems so reluctant to play the parts she's assigned.

The body count is so high on this show for a lighthearted comedy.

For a show with so many lingering close-ups, I'm surprised they weren't made up or edited or shot to have more perfect skin.

WHY would Francesca risk their happy couple backstory by making out with that random? SO unprofessional. ALSO, GROSS. Feminism has nothing to do with infidelity. Who wrote that line for her? Probably a man.

Standish is not a bad singer. Especially that one run towards the end. 

Bad example, Francesca. The groom was pretending to be in love for 5 years. She couldn't even do it for a couple of days. How is she a spy?

Relatively speaking, this was a better case of the week. The problem is Leverage would have sent in Sophie or even Parker with Sophie in her ear and we would have sympathized more with the bride and groom. This show... I can't even be bothered.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 6: Yeah, if these episodes are out of order it's really messing things up. If this show hadn't been cancelled I don't think I would have stuck through this confusion. 

Why would they keep slipping back into their own accents in the presence of the robbery crew? Maintain the cover.

If Sophie is such a genius why was Will the only one to sense that Standish would be uncomfortable after his brush with death? 

It was pretty clear the fumbling Cabot was going to be the bad guy. 

WHY doesn't Standish have any field training? Of course he's nervous. Frankly, it's weird that this show thinks pep talks are the only thing necessary to prepare him to get out there. Also, pulling out that wire could have been accomplished by anyone else on the team who was more athletic.

I did like Will and Frankie being honest about their attraction/jealousy but deciding to try to put it aside because their work is more important. Obviously it won't stop bothering them but it's smarter than what a lot of will they/won't they shows do.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 7: It's really weird that Emma would follow Will to NY and strike up a relationship based on so little.

I get that they're writing a show and need to set up baby smuggling but with only one baby I feel like the natural conclusion is, oh, that's the baby of one of the Bulgarians and not, yes, obviously that's one of the babies they're trafficking. I thought they were going to realize they'd accidentally stolen the baby of the woman who caught the knife.

Is it me or was the fight choreography sloppier last episode and this episode? The exception was Tina. 

The choke hold with the back of the knee was cool.

It makes no sense that they would bother marching Will and Frankie out instead of just shooting them in the building. This is like in every spy movie/TV show where instead of killing them, they give them an opportunity to escape. 

"That's not our style"? YOU JUST SHOT A TON OF GOONS. THEY'RE ALL DEAD NOW.

[aradia22]

EPISODE: Well, I got my wish. More props in the fight choreography. It was interesting to see a fight where they couldn't just shoot everyone too. Though the extra sailors in the back who were not involved were a bit confusing. 

It's probably bad that I care more about Standish and Tina than anything else in the episode, especially whatever bee is in Emma's bonnet. 

How is that guy not dead? What was that suitcase made out of?

"Why couldn't he just be himself?" Um, you guys loaded him up with intel about her instead of just giving him a pep talk.

That was a very cartoon-y ending. They should have just killed Jimmy.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 8: I continue to find a lot of the locations/filming style dreary and depressing. I don't care if it's unrealistic. They shouldn't have so many cloudy and bleached/washed out shots. If I wanted that, I would watch The Americans.

For an episode with the return of the Big Bad, this was a lot duller than it should have been.

Jai's plaid suits were particularly nice this episode.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 9: The point of disguises is to look convincing. They did not look like a convincing cleaning crew. And there were way too many of them in the same area.

Beating Standish up is not teaching him anything. 

See, organ harvesting is a good in-universe excuse to not kill a main character.

LOL, OK, I enjoyed The Princess Bride bluff.

And Jai getting back at Will at the end was funny. 

This show should have been a lot lighter. They made a mistake with too much heavy stuff when the writers can't handle it. You can be an action comedy or you can be a drama with some humor. But you can't have this high of a body count in a gruesome way and still be flippant.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 10: That was cold. I'm going to count that as a fridge-ing since past her first episode, Emma might as well have been Lois Lane for all the character development she got. She was basically just a girlfriend. I don't get the point of introducing a character just to kill her off like this. She wasn't developed enough for me to care about her. 

OK, but Will totally would be a guidance counselor or a youth pastor.

The casino was the medium-budget TV version of glamour but I appreciated the effort to film somewhere less gray.

Frankie stopping him from making that jump was weird because I'm pretty sure we got the same scenario in a previous episode but with Will jumping onto a boat. 

Also, who is going to explain to this casino full of wealthy patrons WTF just happened?

This show can't do a convincing Moral Event Horizon. Torture came close but they played it for laughs too much. And murdering Griffin is meaningless because he just murdered ALL OF THOSE HENCHMEN. Idiotic. This is not even the first time they've done this. 

DRAMA. I didn't see Tina working for the bad guys. That's the thing about TV sitcoms. It's difficult to know when to be suspicious when you get mismatched pairings all the time. I wonder if she likes Standish at all. 

[aradia22]

EPISODE 11: Wow, who could possibly be the handler? Is it the only other Asian person in any of the scenes? *eye roll* They couldn't find some more non-white extras? I appreciated the French girl as backup.

Partial downloads are still... partially downloaded?

Tomas is clearly not a student. 

Obviously Standish didn't kill him. Why does this show think its audience is full of idiots? I want to like this show but the writing is not good. I just keep thinking... yup, this is why it got cancelled. Though that doesn't explain why The Blacklist and Person of Interest got multiple seasons.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 13: Ooh, I love props in fight choreography! The skateboard was badass.

The actress playing Kelly... Normally I don't comment but wow, her face. Just... wow. Not good.

I feel like too much of the cross/double-cross stuff on this show is sold by weak acting. Like, I can't tell what anyone is feeling because they're so dead behind the eyes that any twist makes sense. But it also has no emotional weight.

[aradia22]

EPISODE 13: Whew! I thought when Tina showed up at the bar she was immediately going to kill Paul.

The old couple should have obviously been suspect. No one has come into the bar for months. What kind of agents are they?

Dylan Walsh is such a lame villain. Did something die in his soul during/after Nip/Tuck? Why is his acting so flat?

Poor Paul. That was a weird af moment. What does this show think it is, Gotham? 

I am going to miss the foreign covers of songs appropriate to whatever country they're in. I hope another show picks up that trick.

Ray being in pain was a decently well-acted moment. Ruined by the cartoonishness of them letting Ollerman fall out the window. If there was ever a time for an Indiana Jones moment, I wish one of them would have just shot him before he could do it. There was plenty of time.

And of course he's alive... because this is a cartoon. SO DUMB.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 6/19/2019 at 10:38 AM, aradia22 said:

EPISODE 13: Whew! I thought when Tina showed up at the bar she was immediately going to kill Paul.

And of course he's alive... because this is a cartoon. SO DUMB.

My thoughts exactly.  Even if the producers didn't know they were going off the air, keeping Ollerman alive was just stupid.  There is supposedly the "Trust" out there, so plenty of new baddies to introduce next season.  And in all honesty, the best series are not the ones that have the never-ending story arcs, it is when they end them and create new arcs.

[cardigirl]

I don't understand how this show wasn't renewed when Blood & Treasure got a second season.  This show was heads and shoulders above that one in terms of plots and writing, and I enjoyed Blood & Treasure a great deal, but it jumped through enormous plot holes to get to the end.  I'll never understand television networks' decision-making skills.  

[Loandbehold]

2 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I don't understand how this show wasn't renewed when Blood & Treasure got a second season.  This show was heads and shoulders above that one in terms of plots and writing, and I enjoyed Blood & Treasure a great deal, but it jumped through enormous plot holes to get to the end.  I'll never understand television networks' decision-making skills.  

I agree about the relative merits of the two shows. But, WC was a spring season show on ABC, while B&T was a summer show on CBS. Two different networks, two different time periods. And likely different expectations on ratings for the shows. I also believe that WC was not owned by ABC (for comparison, see The Rookie which is ABC-owned and was renewed for a second season), while I believe B&T is owned at least in part by CBS.

[cardigirl]

1 minute ago, Loandbehold said:

I agree about the relative merits of the two shows. But, WC was a spring season show on ABC, while B&T was a summer show on CBS. Two different networks, two different time periods. And likely different expectations on ratings for the shows. I also believe that WC was not owned by ABC (for comparison, see The Rookie which is ABC-owned and was renewed for a second season), while I believe B&T is owned at least in part by CBS.

It does all come down to money, I'm sure.   Just a shame, because all the way through B&T's run, I kept thinking about WC and how much better crafted in some ways it seemed to be. I enjoyed the cast of both shows a great deal though.

[Rahul]

I've never seen Whiskey Cavalier but have the entire series saved up on my DVR and intended to watch it soon. I've read that the episodes were aired out of sequence on ABC. From elsewhere on the interwebs, the production order of the episodes was

1

3

2

9

4

5

6

7

8

10

12

11

13

Episode 9 was originally supposed to be episode 4. The second and third episodes were also switched, as were the eleventh and twelfth episodes.

***

Would you recommend I view the episodes as they aired on ABC or in the actual filming order? Not sure which to go with for the best viewing regarding continuity of a serialized show.

[kassygreene]

25 minutes ago, Rahul said:

I've never seen Whiskey Cavalier but have the entire series saved up on my DVR and intended to watch it soon. I've read that the episodes were aired out of sequence on ABC. From elsewhere on the interwebs, the production order of the episodes was

1

3

2

9

4

5

6

7

8

10

12

11

13

Episode 9 was originally supposed to be episode 4. The second and third episodes were also switched, as were the eleventh and twelfth episodes.

***

Would you recommend I view the episodes as they aired on ABC or in the actual filming order? Not sure which to go with for the best viewing regarding continuity of a serialized show.

I did my re-watch in filming order.  I think it  made more sense.

[Rahul]

5 hours ago, kassygreene said:

I did my re-watch in filming order.  I think it  made more sense.

Thank you. I will try watching it in the intended order then. Sometimes they make some changes to the script when they know the episodes will be switched around but it doesn't seem like this was the case here.

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, Rahul said:

Thank you. I will try watching it in the intended order then. Sometimes they make some changes to the script when they know the episodes will be switched around but it doesn't seem like this was the case here.

It's been so long now that I don't remember exactly, but this was a case-of-the-week type of show, so I don't think they changed the scripts.  Maybe skip the "previously..." intro.

Definitely watch it in production number order, and NOT the ABC order.  I remember looking back mid-season and thinking that the character development would have been more natural if they had stuck to the intended order.  The ABC order might have made me like the show less right off the bat, since they jumped from Episode 1 to Episode 3. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Camera One

[Trini]

This is streaming for free on CW Seed now: https://www.cwseed.com/shows/whiskey-cavalier/