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S08.E21 Again With This: Beverly Hills, 90210 Pits What He Said Against What She Said

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I’ve just listened to the first couple of minuts and I’m so happy the subject of where to put a criminal when you have the car full of journalists (in this case it should be “journalists”). I’ve wondered about that a million times when watching tv-shows! Now, back to listening. 

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I’ve never hated Kelly so much. And Steve is godawful this whole episode too. Okaying police brutality AND rape in the same episode, good job.

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13 minutes ago, Carmen MacCodykins said:

In his zeal to attack Steve, it seems that David trips over his own pants in that GIF. (really, how could he not, though?)

LOL.  I think he did trip on the bottom of his pant legs.

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Everyone's line delivery seemed especially bad this episode. Or maybe I just forget how awful they all are in between podcasts.

Pretty sure it takes longer than like four days to become drug dependent. Unless this is a longer timeline than it seems?

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We need to start a countdown when Brandon will finally be gone forever! I know from Jason Priestly Memoir he does 4 episodes in season 9 - we are getting close!!! maybe you should read excerpts from his book until the day comes like you did with Shannon. There is several parts where Jason Priestly is actually braying at people in his book! Its freaking unbelievable

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This episode enrages me. These people are the worst. The decent human being code is that you give the benefit of the doubt to the person who says they were raped. I don't care if you've ever had sex with the person before or how drunk you are. When the other party is just that wasted, they can't give consent. It's just that simple. The way Noah is portrayed as another victim and how very few of these jerks have any empathy for Valerie makes my blood boil. Instead of acting like the real victim, he should be asking who drugged Valerie and why. Why are they acting like this was a simple misunderstanding of Noah not realizing she had been drugged? Why does he have no shame? And why is Donna angrier that he simply slept with someone else than she is that he raped someone? And, Kelly, with all her past issues should be Valerie's number one supporter. I seriously hate these people and the message they are sending. I can't even with the police brutality story line.

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The balls of this show. I can't imagine this episode being greenlit back then let alone now.

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Are those horse pills in your pocket, Donna, or are you just happy to see me? Also, her terrible posture can't be helping her back pain either. Is Kelly's belly button peeking out of her cardigan supposed to be cute?

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Remember when this house that was for sale, vandalized, and inhabited only by 20 year olds for many seasons was actually owned by Jim's company and was a job benefit?

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Yeah, this is the episode where I stopped watching during the original run. I simply hated all of the main cast at this point, except for Valerie and Nat. Kelly, in particular: what a true piece of garbage. 

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8 hours ago, RosieRose221 said:

We need to start a countdown when Brandon will finally be gone forever! I know from Jason Priestly Memoir he does 4 episodes in season 9 - we are getting close!!! maybe you should read excerpts from his book until the day comes like you did with Shannon. There is several parts where Jason Priestly is actually braying at people in his book! Its freaking unbelievable

I looked it up, and counting the two-part season 8 finale as one episode, he has 14 episodes left.

And we'll never see him again. 

Edited by Kimmykun
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Nothing makes me LOL IRL like the insane out-of-nowhere slams into the "DUH NA NA NUH" of the theme song. 

Musician cop note: cheaper recording rates at night are totally a thing. I'm not really sure why, I know that (especially back in the 90s) fancier studios are booked during the day with people doing jingles and soundtracks and stuff. Either way, I've had friends who've recorded at hot shit studios in the middle of the night for really cheap. Not sure why David can't do this anyway, like isn't being a musician his job right now? Jeez, I think I'm a failure sometimes and then David makes me feel so much better.

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4 hours ago, Lea said:

Remember when this house that was for sale, vandalized, and inhabited only by 20 year olds for many seasons was actually owned by Jim's company and was a job benefit?

THANK YOU, this inconsistency bothers me to no end (as well as the ease with which people seem to move in and out of places without signing leases, but that's probably expecting way too much from these writers). 

I can't wait for Brandon to be gone, ugh. 

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When Tara said she's seen the Saturday Night Fever sequel multiple times and Sarah responds "OH MY GOD!", I was certain she was about to start talking about this reveal.  While I'm relieved she was returning to Brandon's suck, I'm kind of disappointed there wasn't a tangent about the bizarre rewatchability of bad sequels. 

Val and David are the only characters I can stand during this particular story.  Everyone else 100% sucks and should die.

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Also I honestly thought that Dramatic Cop music cue was the beginning of "Baby Merchant" from Cop Rock.

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15 hours ago, Kimmykun said:

And we'll never see him again. 

If only. He manages to insert himself via video when David and Donna get married, even though he never talks to them after he leaves Bev Hills for good. And I'm pretty sure he is a condescending little shit in the video too, and everyone fawns all over him even though they have not spoken to him in years and he can't even be bothered to come to the wedding of the century even though all these knobs showed up with gifts to his cancelled nuptuals.

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Ok, it was super exaggerated but I enjoyed that visual of David's plate-throw and then Steve throwing himself into the fridge. It's obvious that 90 lb David can't actually push Steve back like that. 

In real life though (or in a fantasy life where I am a pissed-off 20-something male) I would have set down my plate calmly and THEN thrown Steve into the fridge. It's more frightening when you do things with steely calm. 

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Kelly’s responsibilities are so unrealistic. She would never do inventory on medications, she’s not a nurse. She’s not even a MSW. Plus, she’s the one who should be the most sympathetic and understanding because she’s a wanna be social worker.

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Kelly’s responsibilities are so unrealistic. She would never do inventory on medications, she’s not a nurse. She’s not even a MSW. Plus, she’s the one who should be the most sympathetic and understanding because she’s a wanna be social worker.

And Kelly would never do inventory by herself. Anyway the fact that she left the key in a cabinet of narcotics is the main reason why there are rules.

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3 hours ago, Jmallory said:

And Kelly would never do inventory by herself. Anyway the fact that she left the key in a cabinet of narcotics is the main reason why there are rules.

Did no one learn anything when David swiped Vicodin from his dad’s office back in college? 

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I've been meaning to ask this for weeks: did people think Vincent Young was cute? I'm only going by the visual aids, but he gets a big NOPE from me.

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Look, I know this show is TERRIBLE at this late stage of its run, but the AWT podcasts seem to be getting better and better. I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and again and again): THANK YOU for your sacrifice, @Tara Ariano and @Sarah D. Bunting. You are wonderful.

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5 hours ago, yousetmeupyoucrud said:

Did no one learn anything when David swiped Vicodin from his dad’s office back in college? 

Well, Donna obviously learned how to steal drugs. 

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Donna’s crazy fast spiral into junkie mode was so unbelievable. Did TS demand she have an addiction like everyone else on the show?

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  On 5/14/2018 at 2:47 PM, RosieRose221 said:

We need to start a countdown when Brandon will finally be gone forever! I know from Jason Priestly Memoir he does 4 episodes in season 9 - we are getting close!!! maybe you should read excerpts from his book until the day comes like you did with Shannon. There is several parts where Jason Priestly is actually braying at people in his book! Its freaking unbelievable

I looked it up, and counting the two-part season 8 finale as one episode, he has 14 episodes left.

And we'll never see him again. 

Yay! Unfortunately we get Dylan back...

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The 1940s-era, all-glass pharmaceutical cabinet also seems like a solid choice. I mean, without a key, how would anyone with bad intentions EVER possibly get to the drugs? ?

Also, everything you can see, through the all-glass walls, is a liquid, has Donna gone from antique pill boxes to shooting up in a single episode?

Lastly, I still miss chunky platform heels, and I don't care who knows it. (Who am I kidding, I still wear some every now and again; old lady privilege.)

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18 hours ago, yousetmeupyoucrud said:

Did no one learn anything when David swiped Vicodin from his dad’s office back in college? 

Is it normal for dentists to stock Vicodin? Don't you need to go to a pharmacy for that? Maybe things were different in the 90s.

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16 hours ago, purist said:

Look, I know this show is TERRIBLE at this late stage of its run, but the AWT podcasts seem to be getting better and better. I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and again and again): THANK YOU for your sacrifice, @Tara Ariano and @Sarah D. Bunting. You are wonderful.

I agree. I was so happy to get a nice long episode this week. Keep up the good work!

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6 hours ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

Is it normal for dentists to stock Vicodin? Don't you need to go to a pharmacy for that? Maybe things were different in the 90s.

Completely anecdotal, I had teeth removed in 2011, and my doctor had Vicodin in the office so you wouldn’t have to go to the pharmacy afterwards. Though I can imagine things have changed since!

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I wanted to chime in on the "can they act?" portion which I am loving.  Mr. Curly went to HS with Jennie Garth, a fact he will tell everyone and loves saying how she gave him a kiss on the cheek when she left.   Jennie left her high school in the middle of junior year I think to go to CA.  Mr. Curly said how the school drama teacher was very vocal that Jennie didn't have any talent and her dropping out of school was a big mistake.  I think he may have been forced to write a retraction of sorts when Jennie landed a sit com with Barbara Eden.  

If I were to do a "watch me" reel for the actors, I would definitely have the one where Shannen freaks out about being held at gun point.  

Now, on to the atrocity that is this episode.  Steve's immediate dismissal of Val reminds me a lot of when crazy Laura accused Brenda of sleeping with the director to get the part.  Steve had known Brenda in "the gang" for at least 3 years and yet was really quick to dismiss her.  He even said something like "I'm friends with your brother, not you."  He's kind of doing that with Val.  

Why is NO ONE caring about the roofies in her system?  Do they think she roofied herself?  And except for the exchange at the end, no one seems to care that sex without consent is rape.  Noah isn't being tried for giving her drugs, he's on trial for having sex with Val when she was out of it.  

I'm already flying into a rage thinking about how Kelly "apologizes" to Val.  Does Donna forgive Noah for cheating? 

And while I'm trying not to do work I may as well add, what was the final decision on Switched At Birth?  If both parties are drunk, where does the blame lie?

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Quote

Also I honestly thought that Dramatic Cop music cue was the beginning of "Baby Merchant" from Cop Rock.

"I'm your baby merchant...tots are us...."

Quote

Why is NO ONE caring about the roofies in her system?  Do they think she roofied herself?  And except for the exchange at the end, no one seems to care that sex without consent is rape.  Noah isn't being tried for giving her drugs, he's on trial for having sex with Val when she was out of it.  

I'll say that if Val was willing to go to the trouble of faking a pregnancy and abortion in order to con someone out of money, it's not entirely crazy she would drug herself.  I would agree in this particular situation it doesn't make any sense, though.     

Edited by txhorns79
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According to this show, Val will always have to answer for her mistakes. During the same time period of Valerie's sins against the group, Steve was an amateur thief, unabashedly cheated his way through school, lit Kelly on fire, dabbled in drugs, cheated on girlfriends, womanized in general, has often been a shitty friend and is an excellent liar. None of that is ever brought up in anything other than an "Oh, Steve, boys will be boys context. As for Brandon- he just finished cheating on Kelly, drove drunk once in high school, is generally unpleasant and is often judgemental of his friends. But he's an upstanding citizen who deserves another chance. 

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22 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

And while I'm trying not to do work I may as well add, what was the final decision on Switched At Birth?  If both parties are drunk, where does the blame lie?

Bay, the female character, confides about the incident to someone who's dating an administrator at the college where Tank, the male character, is enrolled (and Bay is not); the administrator has to go through Title IX channels even though Bay doesn't want an investigation, particularly after her identity is revealed online and, of course, extremely hateful comments are being made about her. She gives a statement that tries to have it both ways in terms of staying firm in the conviction that Tank was wrong to have sexual contact with her without her enthusiastic consent, but also that he's basically a good person and shouldn't be expelled, but he gets expelled anyway. (Our own Sarah Beckham covered the arc beautifully here, here, and here.)

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Thanks! I used to watch this a lot but stopped mid-way through this very arc.  I think I was so upset that Emmett got mad that I just couldn't.

I think I always wish that 90210 had some nuances and subtly.  I just don't understand how everyone shrugs their shoulders and is all "oopsie, Noah had sex with a roofied Val but since brother Josh was the perpetrator, it's all ok."  And why does it take so long for Val to leave?  The Gang is always choosing relative strangers over her.  Just Find. New. Friends. 

18 hours ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

According to this show, Val will always have to answer for her mistakes. During the same time period of Valerie's sins against the group, Steve was an amateur thief, unabashedly cheated his way through school, lit Kelly on fire, dabbled in drugs, cheated on girlfriends, womanized in general, has often been a shitty friend and is an excellent liar. None of that is ever brought up in anything other than an "Oh, Steve, boys will be boys context. As for Brandon- he just finished cheating on Kelly, drove drunk once in high school, is generally unpleasant and is often judgemental of his friends. But he's an upstanding citizen who deserves another chance. 

And let's add Kel to the mix: she fell for the cult, cheated on Brandon with Dylan, did coke with Colin, almost prostituted herself for cocaine, had the bad judgement to bring in Tara street child, and now is constantly violating HIPPA rules.  But still, it's all ok.  

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  On 5/16/2018 at 12:37 AM, purist said:

Look, I know this show is TERRIBLE at this late stage of its run, but the AWT podcasts seem to be getting better and better. I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and again and again): THANK YOU for your sacrifice, @Tara Ariano and @Sarah D. Bunting. You are wonderful.

I agree. I was so happy to get a nice long episode this week. Keep up the good work!

Me three! Truly a highlight of the week.

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On 5/14/2018 at 2:06 PM, Flamingo said:

This episode enrages me. These people are the worst. The decent human being code is that you give the benefit of the doubt to the person who says they were raped. I don't care if you've ever had sex with the person before or how drunk you are. When the other party is just that wasted, they can't give consent. It's just that simple. The way Noah is portrayed as another victim and how very few of these jerks have any empathy for Valerie makes my blood boil. Instead of acting like the real victim, he should be asking who drugged Valerie and why. Why are they acting like this was a simple misunderstanding of Noah not realizing she had been drugged? Why does he have no shame? And why is Donna angrier that he simply slept with someone else than she is that he raped someone? And, Kelly, with all her past issues should be Valerie's number one supporter. I seriously hate these people and the message they are sending. I can't even with the police brutality story line.

Word. 

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On 03/01/2019 at 7:55 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Word. 

Totally.

This whole plot is enraging. Kelly is the literal worst and to me she is the worst character. 

When David is the only character that supports you then move to New York or Miami. Better off there.

Revisiting this Series through the podcast and David is the only character that is not a dick to Val. 

Edited by SoupThrower
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