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Masque of Anarchy

S09.E22: Clash of Swords

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After 6 years, Cam and Mitch finally get their baby boy, but Lily? Who is that? This episode sadly proved the downfall of the writers, they have no idea what to do with Manny. They constantly want to show that Alex is a "big nerd" with no life. People go to Hero Cons and are outcasts and Jay can't figure out automatic systems. Yet he can have smart devices and use Google Home no problem. However, I will say this, I really do hope they plan on next season being their last. This is way to late in the game to throw another kid into the cast and hope it will "revitalize the show". 

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I thought this was just dire. There wasn't a single plotline I enjoyed.

i have no desire to see Mitch and Cam raise a giant, gluttonous farm baby. Everything related to the farm on this show has been awful. And I have to think we'll get an episode where Pam comes back.

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Each plot kind of revealed a character teetering on the edge of ambivalence or straight-up giving up. Some conceded, some took the moral victory, and some tried to fight it with what seem like poor consequences to follow. It felt like a thinly veiled allegory for the show closing out its penultimate season.

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Why does Gloria always have to lose against Jane Krakowski's character?  She did last season, and now, this season, too.

They couldn't even include Luke or Lily in this season finale?  The show's going on hiatus for four months, and they leave two of their cast members out of it?  WTF, Show?!

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2 hours ago, Ravon Okiro said:

Why does Gloria always have to lose against Jane Krakowski's character?  She did last season, and now, this season, too.

They couldn't even include Luke or Lily in this season finale?  The show's going on hiatus for four months, and they leave two of their cast members out of it?  WTF, Show?!

I agree and Manny's subplot just made no sense. Mr.: "I want to be my own man." since he left for college and when he gets paid and apparently a good amount of money to go across the country and he is: "I'm too scared. Someone go with me." Fell flat and I agree with Jane Krakowski's character, seriously, I felt bad for Gloria not to mention her "rival" is that dead set on screwing her over and making Joe think his mother is a complete loser. I mean, that's worst than the Westport women on American Housewife. 

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This wasn't the best episode to be sure, but 'He's not a house baby' made me laugh and laugh and laugh.

 

Also: Jean Raphael! I hope he's back next season.

Edited by luna1122
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I thought it was sweet that Cam and Mitchell realized the baby needed them and that Cam's parents didn't do well as raising a bigger child. I like the hero con stuff but I do think Luke and Lillly should have been in the finale. I wish they didn't have the closet buy out storyline; not everyone wants or can afford super high tech closets, so Claire and Jay's firm could still do well without the high tech stuff. 

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2 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I thought it was sweet that Cam and Mitchell realized the baby needed them and that Cam's parents didn't do well as raising a bigger child. I like the hero con stuff but I do think Luke and Lillly should have been in the finale. I wish they didn't have the closet buy out storyline; not everyone wants or can afford super high tech closets, so Claire and Jay's firm could still do well without the high tech stuff. 

I just didn't need to be beaten over the head that Jay hired some very stupid people for him company and shocked they haven't killed themselves by now. Just like Jay can use Google Home and an Apple Watch, but automatic hand dryers, sinks or toilets he is clueless. Plus, Jay never broke remotes, that was Gloria. Always has been, she has been shown as bad with tech if it isn't her phone or Skype. Like with Phil bringing up spoilers from a forum, I mean really? That's not clueless that's brain dead. 

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Did I miss something?  A few episodes back (the one with DeeDee) Pam took Lilly back to the farm to spend time with the family.  A big deal was made of Mitchell and Cam being alone.  Now they have the baby because Pam is in jail.  How did the baby get back to California?  Where was Lilly?

I hated this episode.  There were a few chuckles, but it was basically a sad and worn out episode.

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I don't have a problem with the writers pretending that Luke and Lily don't exist, because those characters are both duds as far as I'm concerned.

But it raises a question - why do they keep bringing back Manny and Alex, who they don't seem to be any better at writing for?

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I had no idea this was even a season finale, it just felt like a normal, pretty meh episode.  None of it really worked for me. Have they found a new Cousin Oliver already? Wasn’t Joe Cousin Oliver? How many can one show have? 

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I have to agree, it seems like the show should have ended a season ago. There is no reason for this show to continue, other than it's still making money for ABC I guess. I hope that next season is the last season for The Goldbergs as well. Shows that are based around a family with kids who are in high school have a natural shelf life. After all the kids have grown up and all gone off to college, what reason more is there for the show to exist? 

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3 hours ago, readster said:

Just like Jay can use Google Home and an Apple Watch, but automatic hand dryers, sinks or toilets he is clueless

I can NEVER find the “sweet spot”to make automatic sinks, soap, or dryers work!

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16 hours ago, readster said:

This episode sadly proved the downfall of the writers, they have no idea what to do with Manny. 

I was surprised that they again brought out the "pan flute" thing to show how brave Manny is, after Jay used that already years ago. Hint to writers: it's no good having other characters say how brave Manny is. You have to SHOW it. 

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56 minutes ago, hula-la said:

I don't know your background, but it could be because it's racist  https://gizmodo.com/why-cant-this-soap-dispenser-identify-dark-skin-1797931773

Yeah, I'm white AF.   This isn't my problem and I'm fine with soap dispensers but those sink things.... hit or miss... I'm a computer programer.  I'm not anti tech.  But those sinks?!?! OMG.  And the auto toilets I'm forever the one hitting the button because they are less hit and miss than the sinks but....

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9 hours ago, readster said:

I just didn't need to be beaten over the head that Jay hired some very stupid people for him company and shocked they haven't killed themselves by now. Just like Jay can use Google Home and an Apple Watch, but automatic hand dryers, sinks or toilets he is clueless. Plus, Jay never broke remotes, that was Gloria. Always has been, she has been shown as bad with tech if it isn't her phone or Skype. Like with Phil bringing up spoilers from a forum, I mean really? That's not clueless that's brain dead. 

I haven't attended a Comicon, but I thought one of the perks of attending was to find out spoilers.

 

9 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I wish they didn't have the closet buy out storyline; not everyone wants or can afford super high tech closets, so Claire and Jay's firm could still do well without the high tech stuff. 

While I don't think Closet, Closet, Closet had many high tech closets but it was definitely an extremely high-end closet manufacturer hence how well off Jay has been portrayed over the years. I think it is a natural fit and allows for potential funny stories with the new characters who will merge Jay and Claire' company.

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8 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I don't have a problem with the writers pretending that Luke and Lily don't exist, because those characters are both duds as far as I'm concerned.

But it raises a question - why do they keep bringing back Manny and Alex, who they don't seem to be any better at writing for?

And where is the baby going to sleep?  We know they don't have an extra bedroom in their apartment.

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3 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

And where is the baby going to sleep?  We know they don't have an extra bedroom in their apartment.

It wouldn't be difficult to turn the den into a third bedroom.

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They still have the upstairs apartment. They construct an opening/stairway to the top.

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8 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

It wouldn't be difficult to turn the den into a third bedroom.

Have we seen a den? I only remember the room between the front door and the kitchen. 

7 minutes ago, nilyank said:

They still have the upstairs apartment. They construct an opening/stairway to the top.

The Mindy Project did that. But they can't have the baby sleeping upstairs by himself. And construction costs money.

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59 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Have we seen a den? I only remember the room between the front door and the kitchen. 

1 hour ago, nilyank said:

Yes it’s where the tv is located and across from Lily’s room. It’s where the football player slept. It is open to the hallway but a wall could easily be put up.

1 hour ago, nilyank said:

They still have the upstairs apartment. They construct an opening/stairway to the top.

They wouldn’t need to do that an interior staircase already exits. The door to their apartment doesn’t open to the outside but to a interior vestibule. 

Edited by biakbiak
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23 hours ago, readster said:

After 6 years, Cam and Mitch finally get their baby boy, but Lily? Who is that? This episode sadly proved the downfall of the writers, they have no idea what to do with Manny. They constantly want to show that Alex is a "big nerd" with no life. People go to Hero Cons and are outcasts and Jay can't figure out automatic systems. Yet he can have smart devices and use Google Home no problem. However, I will say this, I really do hope they plan on next season being their last. This is way to late in the game to throw another kid into the cast and hope it will "revitalize the show". 

Agree with most of this, except for the part with Jay and the faucets

I hate automatic faucets, I can never get those damn things to work. 

Manny.........isn't he like 20 years old?  He can't drive across country by himself?  That's like a dream for most 20 year olds.  Or better yet, did I miss it, or why couldn't Luke just go with him?  Or instead of making the "joke", and I use that loosely, that Manny is too afraid to go, they could just use the same idea and have Luck and Manny actually go on the trip, perhaps giving them some ideas for truly funny things to happen as they are on the road?

I actually thought the closet merger idea was a good one, for the company and the show. 

And I thought they had already planned on next season being the last

6 hours ago, hula-la said:

I don't know your background, but it could be because it's racist  https://gizmodo.com/why-cant-this-soap-dispenser-identify-dark-skin-1797931773

Better Off Ted, a show that should have been on much longer, did one of the funniest sitcom episodes ever on this theme.  Racial Sensitivity (name of the episode)

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I thought this was just dire. There wasn't a single plotline I enjoyed.

It was awful and I even ended up hitting a few +30 seconds on the recording.   This show is so hit or miss for me. 

Re: auto dispensers, not only are they annoying in getting them to work but I’m convinced the foam soap dispensers don’t dispense enough product to actually get your hands clean. So then I’m left trying to get to stupid thing to work multiple times in a row.

Edited by VartanFan
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Yeah I wasn't sure this was the season finale until the end when they hit us over the head with the lessons learned. I do think there is potential with the closet story next season but I am not happy about the new baby story. It felt rushed - they should've started it at least in the previous episode. And poor Lily will likely be more sidelined next year.

I agree next year should be the last (well actually 2 seasons ago should've been the last) so I hope they wrap it up well.

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11 hours ago, DrSpaceman said:

 

And I thought they had already planned on next season being the last 

That is the main plan, but you also have to worry since The Middle is done, Alex Inc failed and Splitting Up together doing just good enough to be on next season. ABC is falling back on Roseanne, Black-ish and American Housewife as their main comedies. So, unless Modern Family producers/writers stick to their guns and say: "No, we are done after 10 years." I could see ABC trying to hold onto it. I mean the reason why the Bachelor/Bachelorette are still on is not only because it's cheaper, they have nothing to replace it with. If everyone on those shows including Chris said: "We're done." Then no matter how much money ABC throws at them, they would have to find something to work or use a show with less than stellar but OK ratings to fill their time slots. 

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This episode was just awful on every level. Seasons 1-3 feel like an entirely different series.

I can't believe how far this show - one of my very favorites - has fallen.

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Bad,  bad, bad, on every level.  No even  my favorite, Phil, could save this wreck of an episode.

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You couldn't pay me to let a smart closet pick my outfits! Some program put together by a bunch of nerds in short-sleeved button downs and no socks is supposed to have a sense of fashion as good as my own? Fuck off.

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On 5/17/2018 at 12:51 PM, Phishbulb said:

There is no reason for this show to continue, other than it's still making money for ABC I guess.

And because people like me still enjoy and look forward to it.

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I used to enjoy the show too, but they're going to increasingly ridiculous lengths to keep all of the family members involved and on the show.

Haley should be living on her own by now and have some kind of steady job. (In fact, a spinoff of her working in the fashion world wouldn't have been a bad idea, really). They barely figured out this season how to deal with Alex being in college, where she was sort of living on campus supposedly, but usually at home under some pretext- and now that Luke and Manny are going to be in college, there won't be much of a "family" left. Adding a baby at this late stage in the game seems like a really desperate gambit to keep the show going. It just seems like the show is going into this next season just as a purely commercial enterprise, rather than it being something the creators of the show really have their heart invested in. 

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This was a particularly dreadful episode. I never even cracked a smirk once. If next season is announced as the last, I'll stick it out. If it keeps going, I'll probably bail. I found this season completely dull and unfunny.

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I am so there with you ShelleySue!  It's one thing when the writers forget what happened one season to the next, but totally forgetting that they sent Pam, the baby, AND Lily like one episode ago to Missouri and reconning that so that Pam is in Jail and the baby in California is just ridiculous!  It also didn't make sense to me when Cam and Mitchell said that Cam;s parents didn't really know how to raise a big boy when throughout the entire series Cam goes on and on about his wonderful upbringing and how great life on the farm was while growing up.  Yes, they had the scene when Cam hadn't told his grandmother that he was gay, but other than that Cam always focuses on how talented, strong, and farm smart he is.  But, now, it's like noooooo, we can't let Cam's parents raise this baby.  The other thing is that if they were going to take the baby to Missouri it's probably because that's what Pam wanted.  They really don't have a right to override her decision about her baby (unless she just didn't care who took the baby).  

I am just tired of Manny.  They did not need to introduce a "cousin Oliver" (as so appropriately termed in a post above) as Manny really is the biggest baby on the show.  Oh, and playing a pan flute is not brave-it was an affectation that he took on among all of his others.

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I am with Manny on the driving cross country thing. I am 45 and unless someones life was on the line there is no way I would drive by myself cross country.  At no point in my life has the thought of driving that far alone been something I would ever dream of even considering, let alone doing.  Certainly not for money.  With someone, I would do it no problem.  Alone?  I would rather go to the dentist for root canals with no Novocaine on every single tooth in my head.

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Maybe Cam figured they couldn’t raise a “big” baby because they are 40 years older than when they raised him.  Chasing around a large toddler, who knocks down Cam, would be rather exhausting at their age.  

 

But as for the baby being back in CA, I have no explanation.  And shouldn’t Lily still be in school?  

 

Why is it that we see all kinds of criticism about Sarah’s weight/appearance, but not a word about Rico’s?  I realize he was a chubby kid when the show started, but no way would a female, no matter her age, not be pressured by the studio/producers/network to lose weight.  Or at least not gain.   And yet we are to believe Manny can get women, but Alex can’t?  It isn’t like Manny has a great personality.

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On 5/17/2018 at 4:25 AM, Ravon Okiro said:

They couldn't even include Luke or Lily in this season finale?  The show's going on hiatus for four months, and they leave two of their cast members out of it?  WTF, Show?!

I recently read that each of the "kids" on this show earn $100,000 per episode. Maybe it's getting too expensive to have them all on the show every week, especially when they are contributing literally nothing to the storylines.

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23 minutes ago, SnarkySheep said:

I recently read that each of the "kids" on this show earn $100,000 per episode. Maybe it's getting too expensive to have them all on the show every week, especially when they are contributing literally nothing to the storylines.

Still, you I would think they would all be present for the season finale, at the very least.

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I don't think people are commenting on Sarah's appearance in a shaming or critical way. I think it's because she had a kidney transplant and people are thinking about her actual medical condition and wondering if she's OK sometimes. It's one of the rare times that I think people are actually concerned in a good way, and not just being vicious.

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On 5/21/2018 at 4:08 PM, Mittengirl said:

Maybe Cam figured they couldn’t raise a “big” baby because they are 40 years older than when they raised him.  Chasing around a large toddler, who knocks down Cam, would be rather exhausting at their age.  

 

But as for the baby being back in CA, I have no explanation.  And shouldn’t Lily still be in school?  

 

Why is it that we see all kinds of criticism about Sarah’s weight/appearance, but not a word about Rico’s?  I realize he was a chubby kid when the show started, but no way would a female, no matter her age, not be pressured by the studio/producers/network to lose weight.  Or at least not gain.   And yet we are to believe Manny can get women, but Alex can’t?  It isn’t like Manny has a great personality.

It is not right to shame anyone about their appearance, but you are right in that I shudder to think what a teenage girl would have gone through if they had Rico's physique...particularly considering who they cast as his mother and father. I am happy when they case actors for things other than their looks, but Manny has not grown into a great actor.

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33 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It is not right to shame anyone about their appearance, but you are right in that I shudder to think what a teenage girl would have gone through if they had Rico's physique...particularly considering who they cast as his mother and father. I am happy when they case actors for things other than their looks, but Manny has not grown into a great actor.

Same with Gould, he might have finished high school early and so forth, but he needs to leave acting when the show is done. Ariel Winters needs to get on a show that won't shame her all the time. 

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On 5/21/2018 at 3:45 PM, Ravon Okiro said:

Still, you I would think they would all be present for the season finale, at the very least.

I suspect that the younger cast has specific limited contracts, guaranteeing a certain number of episodes each season.  The six older actors have a 22-episode commitment.  The younger cast may only have 14-18 guaranteed episodes.  They know this at the start of each season and it would explain why certain younger actors have been AWOL throughout certain episodes over the past few seasons.  Given the large cast, it saves some cash to have lesser guarantees

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6 hours ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

I suspect that the younger cast has specific limited contracts, guaranteeing a certain number of episodes each season.  The six older actors have a 22-episode commitment.  The younger cast may only have 14-18 guaranteed episodes.  They know this at the start of each season and it would explain why certain younger actors have been AWOL throughout certain episodes over the past few seasons.  Given the large cast, it saves some cash to have lesser guarantees

Yep, and if said actors in those contracts are not used for what they are promised. They have to have a payout. Why many actors when story lines don't work out are just there, when the audience are saying: "Please get rid of them." They really can't, because then they get pay out more. The biggest example in the last few years was firing Conan O'brian from The Tonight Show. They had to pay him out the money. NBC got some of their ratings back by bringing Jay Leno back for the first year, but then it fell apart and they decided to get Jimmy Falon, which turned out better. On ABC, when they introduced Alexis boyfriend on Castle. The story line was cut by 4 episodes because people stopped watching the show because of the story line. I talked with the actress at a convention and she told me, he had to be paid out since he was promised 9 episodes and only appeared in 5. She also thought the story line didn't work either, but the writers through it was good. Yeah, in the end, cost them I think around $15K because of them cutting the actor out. 

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I don't care, because it's clear the writers don't care either and are just phoning it in, but if they wanted to have the full cast in the season finale, they could have planned out the limited episodes so that each kid would have the available screen time to do it.

I do think it's an odd choice to leave them out, but at the same time, the entire season has been lazy and often when the kids do appear it's hardly worth it. Ariel W in particular gets the most awful stories, she should be grateful whenever her character isn't subjected to more of the same.

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On 5/24/2018 at 10:36 AM, possibilities said:

the entire season has been lazy and often when the kids do appear it's hardly worth it. Ariel W in particular gets the most awful stories, she should be grateful whenever her character isn't subjected to more of the same.

IMO this is because all the characters have become stereotyped caricatures of themselves. The writers don't seem able to let them grow or change at all, despite the number of years involved. 

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On 6/7/2018 at 7:51 AM, SnarkySheep said:

IMO this is because all the characters have become stereotyped caricatures of themselves. The writers don't seem able to let them grow or change at all, despite the number of years involved. 

Pretty much. Hailey is still trying to get into some "wild awesome job" when she knows really nothing. Alex still is shamed as a nerd and dresses like she is 65 with a skin condition. Luke was told: "Go to college, go to college, go to college." When he really can't and was shown to be very good at managing and business, but then goes to community college because he is sick of taking care of Claire and Phil. Manny keeps acting like people will care about his crap and no one does and then baby outs with adult stuff. Mitch has bounced between so many jobs in the last 5 years, how the duplex hasn't faced foreclosure by not is ridiculous. Cam still spends money like they are have unlimited funds and then acts more like a drama teacher someone who would be handed promotion after promotion in the California school system. Lily who? Gloria now needs a rival who is a woman who does it because she can? Jay can't stay retired and still needs to teach his adult children lessons? Time to move on. 

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