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S02.E04: The Riddle Of The Sphinx

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4 hours ago, parandroid said:

Or....just to mess with William, maybe Grace / Emily is a clone bot. What if the clone bot reconciles with MIB, but the real one doesn't? Would he pick the fake or the real one? Ohhhh.....my head hurts.

Does Ford hate the MiB that much? That seems really sinister, and goes beyond playing his game.

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5 hours ago, Haleth said:

I think it would be a hard sell, if that's the ultimate purpose. Create a new you that will live forever! (Small print: only you won't know it cuz you'll be dead.). If your consciousness doesn't carry over, what's the point?  Unless you want to fake that someone else is still alive.  

Well, you certainly wouldn't put that in the brochure. I think the set up would be to tell them their consciousness is transferred and their biological body won't survive the process. Who would be around to clarify?  

3 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Hmmmmm.  I don't think I agree with that.  I think Delos DID know he was a copy.  I think Bernard didn't know he was a 'bot but it seemed clear that Delos does know what is going on.  I get that from the fact that when he is told how much time has passed he is saddened but he doesn't have an existential crisis about the nature of reality (which is how I think most people would react to the news that they are a replicant.) 

I meant he didn't know until he was told or saw how much time had passed. That was my understanding from the whiskey talk. He doesn't realize he didn't make it  until told.

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11 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Okay what B-List actors out there who can commit to a TV series look like a young Anthony Hopkins.... the second human/host hybrid will be Ford. To me it is so obvious. 

Hasn’t Ford already achieved it though? He speaks through many hosts, the kid that was shot earlier, Lawrence’s daughter this time...Has he managed to transfer » himself into some hosts, hence why he was fine with Dolores shooting him last season?

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17 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I know there was a reference on the show to disease being wiped out, but I have to wonder if that statement was overblown.

If there's no disease in this world, then it seems odd that Juliet died from taking the wrong medication. Why would there even be medication?

I thought she slit her wrists? The images of the bathtub, running water, blood and, (presumably) William running up the stairs to find her.

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47 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I thought she slit her wrists? The images of the bathtub, running water, blood and, (presumably) William running up the stairs to find her.

IIRC last season MiB said his wife took some pills 

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This show is starting to remind me a lot of Dollhouse, where some people would agree to work for the Dollhouse for a few years, having their mind wiped clean so that another personality could be downloaded into them in order to fulfill the whims of wealthy people for a day, as high-tech customized escorts. And then at the end we'd learn that (spoiler tagged in case someone still wants to watch that show)

Spoiler

the Dollhouse was a front and the endgame was for rich people to be able to download themselves into other persons, to have a vast array of disposable bodies they could use however they wanted before discarding them and moving to fitter and better ones.

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On 14/05/2018 at 5:14 AM, Pallas said:

Thank you! Yet William stopped working on/visiting his father-in-bot for some decades while Juliet was still alive, then: Devos didn't recognize the Ed Harris version, who he suggested looked worse for wear. 

But Cyber-D wouldn't have recognized Old William in any case -- his memory download stops at the time Real-Delos died, when Emily was a tyke and William was young(ish).  I think we are to imagine that every time Old William (hmm - wasn't that a character in Alice In Wonderland?) walks in the door to visit a regenerated Delos, Cyber-D says wow, dude, you look old.  

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Is it obvious that they were never planning on releasing the Delo-bot? Once a few years passed and the bot still had bugs there was no way they could release him. People on the outside would know the guy was like 100 years old but still looked the same and was somehow alive. So was MIB just continuing the experiment for the experi,ent or just to torture Delos-bot? 

Edited by sadie

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56 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

IIRC last season MiB said his wife took some pills 

I don't really remember it from last season but, the images from this week made me think Slit Wrists. Guess we'll find out, maybe they just went with dramatic images.

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11 hours ago, Kimmel77 said:

Does Ford hate the MiB that much?

I don't think Ford hates William at all. Ford is God of this world; William is one of his creatures, just as much as any robot. William provides Ford with impetus to stay creative, and Ford enjoys watching him work the Maze. From time to time Ford may spank William for his hubris in imagining himself on a par with the Gods, but Ford has no companion God left, no one else to play with up in the Cloud. He needs William. 

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On 5/14/2018 at 10:33 AM, DarkRaichu said:

MiB pushing Maeve to the edge happened several years prior to robot rebellion since she was still in the house in prairie narrative.  Afterwards she was repurposed to be the madam at Sweetwater.  Delos 149 happened after MiB's wife/Julliet killed herself (as he mentioned to Delos149) and in season 1  MiB said his wife killed herself just the previous year. 

So to me, the timeline is more or less: Julliet killed herself, MiB visited Delos149 and let him live, MiB went around WW in season 1 looking for next challenge, Ford told Bernard to clean up the facility where Delos149 was, Ford was killed / rebot rebellion, MiB started Ford's new game, Bernard was dragged by Clementine back to that facility, etc

There is a good chance William's visit to Delos 149 happened at the same week as his WW visit in season 1, meaning it happened just a week before robot rebellion.

In my opinion, this show would be so much better if the timeline was linear.  There is a good story to tell and issues to be explored and it would be nice to watch the progression without all of this back-and-forth which gets annoying. I hate gimmicks, And, for me this jumping back-and-forth in time is just a gimmick.  It is like authors who write books and don’t use punctuation. I make it about 10 pages in and I’m done.

Edited by Kid
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3 minutes ago, Pallas said:

I don't think Ford hates William at all. Ford is God of this world; William is one of his creatures, just as much as any robot. William provides Ford with impetus to stay creative, and Ford enjoys watching him work the Maze. From time to time Ford may spank William for his hubris in imagining himself on a par with the Gods, but Ford has no companion God left, no one else to play with up in the Cloud. He needs William. 

Excellent description. That's how I saw it too and their relationship wasn't malevolent. So I was surprised he'd go so far and do something like that to him.

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I still haven't finished making order of all of my thoughts about the ep, but I just have to say that Ed Harris was phenomenal!

In his last scene with Delos I could really see the connection between young William and MIB William. Jimmi Simpson spent this season playing something closer to Ed Harris's character, and he did a good job as well, but seeing Ed Harris playing something closer to Jimmy Simpson's character was something I didn't think I would see and he did it amazingly.

Also I'm firmly on the train of 'while MIB is an entertaining character he is a terrible person and needs to end this season bunred alive by Dolores and Lorence', but I don't know why seeing Juliet's death subtle flashback and William's decision to save Lorence and his family was so touching to me. I only heard today that Lisa Joy directed this episode and she did an amazing work in that scene together with, again, Ed Harris's amazing acting.

Oh and another point to think about, when the Ghost Nation guy said something to Stubbes and then they all disappeared, I immediately thought that Stubbs was having a flashback and there really was a time when the Ghost Nation hosts were there but there was another time in which they weren't. Could it be that Stubbs got replaced by a host and is repeating what happend as if it was a loop, this time kidnapping all the guests himself?

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On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 8:37 AM, Haleth said:

I was just coming here to ask if anyone else had flashbacks to Desmond in the Season 3 opener.  As long as there are no smoke monsters I'm ok with any other similarities. 

Yes, the whole thing with the Rolling Stones playing on vinyl and all that, and this was all happening in some bunker just felt entirely lifted from Lost.

The last three episodes I have been kind of zoning out and missing a lot of things, having to rely on recaps.  This season just isn't engaging me like last season, for reasons others have already stated above.  WW has always had a cold feel to it, but you could still get invested in some of the characters, especially the bots.  But this season I'm not feeling anything for anyone.  It's like I'm following the story more analytically than anything.  The one thing that made Lost so engaging, even as it transformed into a train wreck in slow motion, is that it invested so much time into the stories of all of the characters so that you really related to them on a human level.  That is WW's weakness.

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1 hour ago, Kid said:

In my opinion, this show would be so much better if the timeline was linear.  There is a good story to tell and issues to be explored and it would be nice to watch the progression without all of this back-and-forth which gets annoying. I hate gimmicks, And, for me this jumping back-and-forth and time is just a gimmick.

As much as I like piecing the timelines together, this jumping back and forward is not as effective compared to season 1.  In season 1, the bulk of the story was in  30 years between young William and MiB, plus about 35 years for Dolores' story. 

However, this season, the majority of events happened within the span of 1.5 to 3 weeks, AND there are more groups of characters & storylines to keep track.   There is little payoff in deciphering the timelines since events are too close together. 

Either consolidate the storylines or align the timelines to make better narrative

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2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I don't really remember it from last season but, the images from this week made me think Slit Wrists. Guess we'll find out, maybe they just went with dramatic images.

It's possible that William told people that his wife took the wrong pills, because that sounds better than "she slit her wrists." But it wouldn't make sense to use that as an excuse in a world in which all disease has been eradicated.

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On 5/13/2018 at 11:14 PM, Pallas said:

Yet William stopped working on/visiting his father-in-bot for some decades while Juliet was still alive, then: Devos didn't recognize the Ed Harris version, who he suggested looked worse for wear. 

I don't think we can assume that. Each iteration of Jim would start at a baseline, William established that when he explains the conversation. So let's say that each iteration begins with the exact baseline each time. Each iteration #1 through #149 reaches the cognitive plateau (each time taking longer to get there), William comes in with the baseline questions.  For testing purposes Jim wouldn't know what time had passed, that family members had died, so each time he sees William is the same exact moment regardless of William's age - be he 30 or 60.  So of course he's not going to recognize 60 year old William no matter how many times he's actually seen and done the baseline with 60 year old William.  The entire point of Jim being monitored in his mid-century modern cage is that a product is being tested. I know there's the argument that the baseline conversation WITH William is triggering the degradation, but I think that something else triggers the plateau otherwise the monitor wouldn't be able to say that Jim is on day 5 or 35 or whatnot.  It also seems to me that they/Ford/whomever has to be very advanced to have created and test 149 versions of Jim in the span of what's likely to be a bout 30 or 40 years giving William's aging, particularly if that wasn't part of the technology they bought to begin with.  That REALLY stood out to me when I watched it initially. No wonder Charlotte's losing her shit over the IP.

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15 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

But it wouldn't make sense to use that as an excuse in a world in which all disease has been eradicated.

A mangled marriage? Anxiety? Depression? Insomnia? Over-eating or body dysphoria? What about recovery from injury or other forms of trauma? Or purely recreational pill-popping: would that go out of style among the privileged of this world? 

Last year William said she took the wrong pills and fell asleep in the tub. She surely did, before and after. He tightened up the narrative, is all.

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4 hours ago, Misplaced said:

I think we are to imagine that every time Old William (hmm - wasn't that a character in Alice In Wonderland?) walks in the door to visit a regenerated Delos, Cyber-D says wow, dude, you look old.  

Found it: it is from Alice in Wonderland.  I could create a whole conspiracy theory here, but .... I won't. 

“You are old, Father William,” the young man said,
“And your hair has become very white;
And yet you incessantly stand on your head –
Do you think, at your age, it is right?”

“In my youth,” Father William replied to his son,
“I feared it might injure the brain;
But, now that I’m perfectly sure I have none,
Why, I do it again and again.”

[It goes on for another three verses; Young Man is ultimately told to shut his yap.]

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I loved the scene of Peter Mullan dancing to Roxy Music.  He's always been one of my favorite actors.

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This show is going to have to produce something miraculous to undo the damage this 2nd season is doing. So Delos plc two main businesses are making incredibly lifelike androids, and also magically curing all disease? That sounds suspicious. Why is the vastly more lucrative “live forever in a new body” second fiddle to Super Disney World? Why is everyone an asshole? Why are these people so fucking vague and cryptic about everything? Ed Harris has basically spent two seasons just quoting ambiguous phrases.

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8 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Why is the vastly more lucrative “live forever in a new body” second fiddle to Super Disney World?

Because William has not perfected the tech even after 20 years of trying

8 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Why is everyone an asshole?

The hosts mimic the creators.  Plus, how is Maeve an a-hole?

10 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Why are these people so fucking vague and cryptic about everything?

Because they know something you don't :P

10 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Ed Harris has basically spent two seasons just quoting ambiguous phrases.

And he sounded badass !!

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1 hour ago, Pallas said:

A mangled marriage? Anxiety? Depression? Insomnia? Over-eating or body dysphoria? What about recovery from injury or other forms of trauma? Or purely recreational pill-popping: would that go out of style among the privileged of this world? 

Depression, insomnia and body dysphoria are all diseases.

I get that it's possible for someone to say that illness has been eradicated even when there are still forms of health problems in existence. But it seems like a strange writing choice to have a character reference "taking the wrong pills" after they've implied that disease is gone, period. And I wonder if it was intentional.

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26 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

Depression, insomnia and body dysphoria are all diseases.

I get that it's possible for someone to say that illness has been eradicated even when there are still forms of health problems in existence. But it seems like a strange writing choice to have a character reference "taking the wrong pills" after they've implied that disease is gone, period. And I wonder if it was intentional.

Maybe wife's life insurance did not cover suicide?  Taking the wrong pills sounded more like an accident

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"Essence of Ford" already seems to be hopping around the hosts, so I don't think he's the second mind marble.  I wonder what would happen if you put the Jim Delos psyche into a horse or a tiger or a bison.

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48 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Because William has not perfected the tech even after 20 years of trying

The hosts mimic the creators.  Plus, how is Maeve an a-hole?

Because they know something you don't :P

And he sounded badass !!

If the live forever new bodies project is a failure, why are they prioritizing it over the theme park? Failed project plus theme park where thousands of rich people were slaughtered = -$$$. 

Maeve wasn’t in this episode. 

32 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Maybe wife's life insurance did not cover suicide?  Taking the wrong pills sounded more like an accident

I dont think super wealthy husbands rely on their wives’ life insurance. 

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34 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Why is everyone an asshole? Why are these people so fucking vague and cryptic about everything? Ed Harris has basically spent two seasons just quoting ambiguous phrases.

Oh boy, so true. It's basically the most frustrating part of this show for me, but it happens a lot on television. People say things like "What are we doing here?" and the answer is "Our last wings melted too fast...we're seeking wings that will take us closer to the sun." In real life, the guy asking the question says "What the fuck are you talking about? Seriously, what SPECIFICALLY are we doing in this office right now? In plain english! I don't even report to you!" Though I guess that's why I don't write TV shows. That, and total lack of talent or commitment. 

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On 5/14/2018 at 8:58 AM, mac123x said:

If Delos Corp was going to sell Robot-immortality (once they've perfected it), why would they need to surreptitiously collect the guests' DNA?  And if they are planning on copying guests' brains into duplicate-host bodies against their will... to what end?

The only thing that makes sense to me is that certain folks within Delos want to secretly replace the rich and powerful with identical hosts, facilitating their eventual takeover of the real world.

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1 hour ago, Kokapetl said:

If the live forever new bodies project is a failure, why are they prioritizing it over the theme park? Failed project plus theme park where thousands of rich people were slaughtered = -$$$. 

As we saw in season 1, Theme Park was running just fine with Ford as the head of theme park.  William's project is separate from the park, even hidden from the park employees.  The immortality tech is William's investment in the future of Delos. It is normal for companies to invest in R&D.

Ford turning the host to slaughter rich people was never part of business plan, theme park or otherwise.  Plus, Delos company seem to care more about the data stored in Abernathy than rescuing the rich people still trapped in the park.  So whatever $$ lost is still small compared to that data.

 

1 hour ago, Kokapetl said:

I dont think super wealthy husbands rely on their wives’ life insurance. 

I never said rely on, it was just extra income.  Even without insurance, "taking wrong pills" still sounds better than "slitting her own wrist".  Rich people like to save face, yes?.  

Edited by DarkRaichu
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29 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

As we saw in season 1, Theme Park was running just fine with Ford as the head of theme park.  William's project is separate from the park, even hidden from the park employees.  The immortality tech is William's investment in the future of Delos. It is normal for companies to invest in R&D.

Ford turning the host to slaughter rich people was never part of business plan, theme park or otherwise.  Plus, Delos company seem to care more about the data stored in Abernathy than rescuing the rich people still trapped in the park.  So whatever $$ lost is still small compared to that data.

I think there are 3 things going on. 

1. Ford and the Theme Park which is the Face/Front of West World. 

2. William's rich people immortality project, highly secretive (from Ford, even though he found out, because he knows everything and Delos Board) R&D.

3. Delos CEO/Board/Charlotte's steal Ford's IP (host code/tech) force Ford out of the Park, Delos assumes total control of Park.

William was (I think) Chairman of the Board by the time Charlotte/Delos decided they needed to take control of the Park and kick Ford out. William didn't really seem to care about Charlotte's schemes because he was more interested in the Maze.

I don't know the timeline for when MiB visited the final version of Jim but, I would assume it was very close to the start of S1.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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On 5/14/2018 at 9:52 AM, Blakeston said:

I'm not crazy about the big revelation that there's a secret plan to grant eternal life to the elite few.

This subplot of eternal life is very far off plot for a series based on Westworld. I don't like it. The writers should have kept with the plots of the themes of the parks and the stories of the hosts in those parks. I asked this question before but do not think I received a reply. Was this season written by totally different writers than season one? It is so off track with this DNA thing. 

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8 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

This subplot of eternal life is very far off plot for a series based on Westworld. I don't like it. The writers should have kept with the plots of the themes of the parks and the stories of the hosts in those parks. I asked this question before but do not think I received a reply. Was this season written by totally different writers than season one? It is so off track with this DNA thing. 

This. I'd love to know. I hate what's going on with the parks this season - basically only shooting it's like watching a western but.. what happened to my favourite show? There's no coming back from this and I hate that change :( Oh and I miss Hopkins so so much!

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2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I asked this question before but do not think I received a reply. Was this season written by totally different writers than season one? It is so off track with this DNA thing. 

Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy are credited with writing all but one of the episodes in Season 1.  There are a few episodes that they wrote together, otherwise, Nolan or Joy worked with another writer.  Episode 3 of Season 2 was written by two different writers but Nolan or Joy are credited with writing the other three episodes of S2 we've seen so far.  

I vaguely recall an interview at the end of Season 1 in which Jonathan Nolan said something to the effect of Season 2 looking like a different kind of show, because the way they were able to tell their story in S1 wasn't something he thought they could do again in the next season.  Perhaps that's what you're experiencing.  

The DNA thing feels like something that was in the background of the story they told us last season, and now they want us to know that it's important to their overall story.  

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5 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think there are 3 things going on. 

1. Ford and the Theme Park which is the Face/Front of West World. 

2. William's rich people immortality project, highly secretive (from Ford, even though he found out, because he knows everything and Delos Board) R&D.

3. Delos CEO/Board/Charlotte's steal Ford's IP (host code/tech) force Ford out of the Park, Delos assumes total control of Park.

William was (I think) Chairman of the Board by the time Charlotte/Delos decided they needed to take control of the Park and kick Ford out. William didn't really seem to care about Charlotte's schemes because he was more interested in the Maze.

I don't know the timeline for when MiB visited the final version of Jim but, I would assume it was very close to the start of S1.

Yep.  It made sense that Ford and William had agreement so as long as the park was financed, Ford could freely do #1 and William #2.

Julliet was likely a member of Delos board and when she died, whatever support/backing given to William crumbled and his pet project got defunded.  Other than his immediate family member, who would want Delos Sr back after being absent / dead for 20 years??? per that quote: "you only live as long as the last person who remembers you"
Without immortality project, Delos' remaining assets in WW are the guests information + DNA databank.  The current Delos board chairman (presumably Emily) realized the data gave Ford too much leverage and told Theresa/QA lady & Charlotte to transmit/move the data out of WW*.  This data is now stored in Abernathy.  I think the new Delos board is going to close the park once they get the data.  Knowing this, Ford flipped his finger by releasing the hosts to kill most of Delos shareholders.

ETA: *This part in italic was not a theory, that was pretty much the explanation Charlotte gave to Theresa when they met in Charlotte's room (Hector was there too ;) ).  Ford most likely learned about it via eavesdropping through Hector (I thought it was weird how they kept Hector in frame during this scene. It made sense now)

2 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

Jonathan Nolan and Lisa Joy are credited with writing all but one of the episodes in Season 1.  

Btw Lisa Joy also directed this episode

Edited by DarkRaichu
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8 hours ago, Blakeston said:

It's possible that William told people that his wife took the wrong pills, because that sounds better than "she slit her wrists." But it wouldn't make sense to use that as an excuse in a world in which all disease has been eradicated.

Until proven otherwise, I'm voting for continuity error.  I can understand MiB concocting a "took the wrong pills" cover story, except he was telling the story to Teddy (I think.  Might have been Lawrence).  He'd have no reason to lie to a host, who he knew wouldn't remember anyway, and the reason he was telling the story was that he didn't know his wife committed suicide until his daughter told him.  He was confessing to Teddy (or Lawrence) that he didn't even realize his family was scared of him.  That whole scene becomes pointless if he knew his wife killed herself.

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10 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Btw Lisa Joy also directed this episode

Indeed.  I feel like I'm the last person to notice these things but I happened to catch her name in the opening credits.  

Perhaps there was some thematic resonance to the scenes with MiB and Lawrence and some other part of the story but none of them left much of an impact on me.  However, I did think the scenes with William and Cylon!JamesDelos were quite good.  I wonder if there's an interview in which Lisa Joy talks about why this episode appealed to her.  

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15 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:
16 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

IIRC last season MiB said his wife took some pills 

I don't really remember it from last season but, the images from this week made me think Slit Wrists. Guess we'll find out, maybe they just went with dramatic images.

Maybe William's wife did take some pills. And maybe real Grace/Emily slit her wrists and her bot remains, with some serious daddy issues.

Edited by MJ Frog
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I like this season and find it easier to follow than the first season. 

Why was Delos Bot surprised at his reflection after his dance party? 

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6 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

William was (I think) Chairman of the Board by the time Charlotte/Delos decided they needed to take control of the Park and kick Ford out. William didn't really seem to care about Charlotte's schemes because he was more interested in the Maze.

William began as Delos, Inc. staff -- he was Executive VP when he was engaged to Juliet and first visited the Park. He presumably became CEO upon the retirement of James Delos, but is now on the board of Delos Inc., and the majority shareholder of its subsidiary, Delos Destinations. Charlotte has the odd title of Executive Director of the Delos Board: not a traditional title for either a top executive or a board officer.

So who's running the show? Who decided to shut down the immortality project (along with the Parks, its luxe and lucrative front business) after the 149th bad robot? Is there a Delos, Inc. CEO/Board Chair we haven't met yet -- two people, or one? And will that prove to be Emily, as @DarkRaichu suggested? Or is it still William?

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This week on "I, Reboot"

The previouslies bring us back to William persuading Delos, the man, not the company, to keep supporting Westworld. There is also reference to the possibility of immortality in an artificial body, then the retirement party, with its ambiguity over whether the retirement was entirely voluntary.

The Rolling Stones start singing "Playing with Fire" as the camera takes a tour of a luxury efficiency apartment. Or cell, perhaps? The music is coming from a ridiculously pretentious piece of retro yuppy analog hardware. Everything is smothered in white fur. A single goldfish in a bowl is a strong contrast. We see Delos going about his day inside: eating, exercising, urinating, etc. Oh, and smoking. A lot.

He's having a cup of coffee when a major tremor hits him. He observes his hand spilling the half and half all over the table with a certain amount of bemusement. Looks as if his illness has progressed.

William shows up. They make a bit of smalltalk, Delos with the passive agressive tone of a patient under the tyranny of doctor's orders. Which is what he is. He's awaiting his date with the mind uploader, which it is implied, is still quite experimental.

William says the next step is a baseline conversation, which by the way, is what they're having now. Delos says, so what-- to prove i'm still me by having the same conversation afterwards? He's not impressed by the idea.

William hands him a folded piece of paper. He reads it as the scene changes. I bet it's a transcript of that very conversation, which therefor indicates that the thing has been done, and congratulations, that's a brand new factory fresh set of polycarbonate lungs you're gunking up now!

Forward into the present, or something close to it in the show's timeline. The Man in Black is riding, followed by a complaining Lawrence. They come upon a railroad workers' camp. The workers are laying down new tracks, using people for cross ties. MIB looks at the scene without sympathy. He remarks that the tracks are going the wrong direction and wonders if this indicates more players in the endgame.

He decides that the best route now is through Los Burros, where Lawrence has family. Did Ford arrange that?

Clementine is still dragging Bernard. She leaves him at the entrance to a cave, along with a rifle. I like Clementine, give her more screentime, dang it! And more lines. But nope, she walks off ignoring Bernard's questions. At least he seems to have recovered some of his motor functions. Maybe she gave him a milk topping off on the way. He picks up the rifle and enters the cave. Why?

He finds a camp, with modern debris. Oh, hi, Elsie. She's chained there. And not happy to see him. Of course, the last she remembers, he was choking her out in that secret manufacturing vault. He shoots the lock off the chain, then she grabs the gun and points it at him. He starts shaking again as he pulls out his diagnostic tablet. He also insists that it wasn't him that hurt her he was being compelled by Ford. She hasn't been clued in on this particular semi open secret. She doesn't understand when he tries to explain that Ford has changed the game and now there's no First Law. Bernard falls and convulses as Elsie picks up the tablet. Btw, good acting there on the convulsions. If it were me, the director would probably have had to tase me.


Elsie reads the tablet. She says you rotated out? When did you rotate out? She's not surprised to discover he's a robot, or even that he's a substitute for a real person. So at one point she must have been privy to more info than most people at her level get. Of course she never met Arnold so she thinks that the Bernard she first met was real. She agrees to put him in safe mode. She says she's not going to break him. Yet.

Bernard drops into the robot dream state. He watches one of the drones drop a load of eyeballs. Then a drone making cupcakes. Eww. He wakes up. Elsie has tied his hands. She says she's made adjustments but he'll die without the milk. Ah, it's called cortical fluid.

She's going to wait for a rescue, he tries to disabuse her. He says no one is coming for us. Surprisingly she doesn't object to him including himself on the "us" side. He says she has to fix him. She says she doesn't have the resources. He invokes a memory of himself going into the cave previously and declares there's a facility in there. And that's why Clem brought him here.

Grab your dice and check for secret doors! Or you know, just check your memories again. Move rock, reveal handle. Turn handle, reveal elevator. He doesn't remember where it goes. They get in.

Aha, another secret annex. With several slaughtered techs. Elsie is suprised to observe that this place can print control units. Presumably that's supposed to be a limited and highly controlled function, as opposed to the facilities that make bodies. Bernard is checking his memory again. He remembers watching a control unit being made.

Elsie has never seen a drone before. Bernard says it won't harm her unless she threatens it. She shoots it anyway. Bernard starts to explain about the unauthorized guest snooping project, but starts to convulse again. In spite of her reservations, Elsie starts to refill him.

Meanwhile, back among the ghost warriors, our plucky heroine who escaped the tiger last time, is brought in. Another prisoner says not to worry, they'll be rescued. But she observes one of the mercenaries among the captives. Oh, that means that the ghost warriors have modern equipment now. Hey, India lady knows the ghost warrior language, indicating she's been there before and spent some time before going off to join the mad dogs and englishmen. Those of you who speculated that she's MIB's daughter give yourselves a high five. The merc says that they are not actually killing humans, however much they may rough them up. He says wait to be evacuated. She says she's not going to wait, plus she isn't planning to leave.

MIB and Lawrence enter Los Burros. It's deserted.  They take a table at the cantina. Oh, there's a bartender in attendence. He tries to do one of his canned sequences. MIB says i haven't shot anyone yet, which i take to mean that the bartender is acting out a script for when he's under threat, like say a guest wants to pose as a bad guy. Oh, i see, there's already a bad guy here, and he's coming fast. Hey, MIB, this may be a solo mission for you, but i recommend you shoot first. Which is what he tries to do, but there's a second lurker. And a third. It's the surviving confeds that Teddy cut lose last time. MIB asks how they got in that bruised and bedraggled condition. They freely declare that they were doublecrossed by "some bitch named Wyatt". MIB responds "Good for her".

And there's the rest of the townfolk, locked in the church. I'm not a fan of traditional westerns but i think that's a cliche. Oh, there's Lawrence's daughter. Isn't she the one who once told MIB that the Maze was not for him? The confed lieutenant believes the town has hidden supplies and intends to shoot people until they're handed over. Lawrence doesn't want his daughter to see him shot down. He tries to bond with MIB, who says his own daughter might feel differently. Then Lawrence tells MIB where the weapons are, in an unmarked grave in the churchyard, and suggests that tonight, when the invaders are drunk, they make a break for it. Stupid Lawrence, how do you know he won't just sell you out? Yup, that's what he does. And says he can help the confeds find the way to Glory.

Time jump time. We are back with the pretentious turntable. Huh, it's Roxy Music, but i'm not familiar with that song. Mr. Delos is dancing. He's happy and healthy. He goes to get some coffee. His hand trembles a bit but the half and half goes in the cup. Shouldn't body switching clear everything up? Or is this another loop? Yes it is. William is here and they exchange the same greetings. Delos has no memory of that previous encounter. This time we see Delos reading the transcript. And yes, that's what it is. Delos figures it out. William tells him he's been dead for 7 years. And also his wife is dead, but his daughter Juliet, William's wife, is fine, and the two of them have a daughter. Unfortunately, the new body isn't ready for prime time yet and Mr. Delos will have to stay inside a while longer. He starts to protest and the tremors start up. It's similar to what later happens to Bernard, so maybe they haven't perfected the milk yet. William seems genuinely sad about it. A tech says he made it to day 7 this time so that's progress. Then they disintegrate the body. Time to start over.

Back to the future. Or present. Or whatever it is. The confeds are stocking up. Oh hey, there's their old friend, nitroglycerine. Lt. takes a whiff. The bartender spills some beer, which just makes him more afraid. Not neurological, just nerves. Still, that's 3 characters with coordination problems. There's a whole lotta shaking going on this episode. Lt. offers to show him how to develop a steadier grip. He has him balance a shot glass of nitro on the back of his hand and tells him to walk a dozen paces. He makes it! I pause the show to predict that Lt. will now shoot the glass. He does. The bartender's hand is blown off and he collapses. The townsfolk cringe and the confeds laugh.

Night time. The ghosts are leading their captives by torchlight. They are going to meet someone described as "the first of us", who will decide the fate of the captives.

In the old days, all the indians in westerns had a hidden squad of drummers to feed the tension. And the drummers had only one beat: DAH Dum Dahdah DAH Dum Dahdah. The Ghost warriors honor that tradition with their own drummers. India lady manages to cut her bonds. She grabs a torch and hits someone with it, then runs away.

The mercenary has a knife to his throat. One of the ghosts puts lips to his ear. "You will only live as long as the last person who remembers you." Profound.

Bernard wakes up. He thanks Elsie for fixing him. She still doesn't trust him, but feels she might need him. She realizes now that Delos Corp has secrets that people like her weren't supposed to know. That processor diagram for instance, it's like nothing she's seen before. Bernard recognizes it as the same type as he saw when examening Peter Abernathy. It's much larger than anything used in the park. Of course it would be, if it's intended to hold the persona and memories of a biological human who's not fresh out of a vat. Bernard says he has trouble trying to access his memories, sometimes he gets lost. Elsie says his memories are unaddressed. As a former CompSci major, i think she means unindexed. Regardless, what it means is that he can't tell what order they originally happened in. He then goes into a flashback of operating a smashed control panel back before it was smashed. He watches a control unit being built. Back in the present (for some value of that term) he tries to explain to Elsie that he thinks this place is not for making hosts. It makes the same bodies, but the code is very different. He can't figure it out. He reminds me of a friend i had who had aspergers. Sometime he would have two congruent ideas in his head but needed someone else to connect them for him. Alas Elsie is not able to do that for Bernard. Oh, there are the cupcakes! Or whatever they are, maybe they're brain cores. Elsie wants to go deeper into the facility. He says don't. Is he afraid to see what he can't bring to realization? She says she wants to see whatever they're making. Yup, Bernard says "maybe we don't want to know". Or is it Ford saying that therough him? Of course she insists. He calls to her as she works the door pad. She ignores him. He wonders if he's lost in a memory again.

Bernard struggles with his memories. He begins to understand that this already happened and that there is something bad about what they found. He remembers the techs, alive and busy. He remembers Elsie giving up on the pad and blasting the lock.

Night and rain in Los Burros. The confeds are beating Lawrence. Lt. offers him a drink of nitro. I remember back in the 60s when leftwing terrorists would often blow themselves up trying to use the stuff. But the formula this fake 1870 setting has is quite stable. Lt. carries it around like a good luck charm. He pours some more in front of MIB. He's trying to get a rise out of him. Are you upset at how we're treating your friend? He's not my friend and we're wasting time. Lt. says he thinks MIB is disturbed by all the death he's seen. But Lt. is never bothered because death is an old friend of his. In fact, he's been dead recently. That would be when Dolores killed him then had him reactivated. Nitro isn't subject to such niceties, pal. He forces Lawrence's wife to dance with him. Then he gives her the glass of nitro and suggests she give it to her husband. She walks out with it, terrified.

Oh, MIB is having a flashback. Water dripping. In Los Burros, but interspersed with water dripping somewhere else. A modern faucet and feet frantically running up the stairs. Are we about to see the moment William put on the black hat for good? Are we going to find his wife dead of suicide in the bathtub? Unpause.

MIB walks out into the flooded street of Los Burros. Inwardly he's running up those stairs. Lawrence's wife and daughter are crying. No. He's still sitting across from Lt. who's checking his pistol. MIB says death's decisions are final. You think you know death. You don't. You didn't recognize him sitting across from you all this time. Then he suddenly slashes Lt's throat, takes his gun, and starts shooting his way through the gang.

No First Law, the robots are trying to kill him for real, which is just how he likes it. Fortunately these are not awakened robots, aware that the limits on their speed and accuracy are just suggestions. Still, he is outnumbered. But he corrects that.

Lawrence's wife is crouching with the nitro. He takes it from her. Lt. crawls into the street. MIB makes him drink the nitro, then hands a rifle to Lawrence. Lawrence shoots Lt, blowing him up.

Back at the efficiency apartment, looking at the goldfish. Dummy, i only just realized that it's a metaphor. Goldfish memory. Robot loop. Delos pours half and half. There's only the barest suggestion of a tremor. He does not recognize William, because he's aged so much. This time we hear what the real problem is. Delos's mind is not able to accept the new body, no matter how functional it is. Apparently the engineers and programmers have been trying to get past this point for a long time. They've made some progress, it now takes 35 days before Delos's mind starts shutting down.

But William has lost confindence in the project. He wonders if Delos as a person is even worth bringing back. He's better as a revered memory. William also confirms that Juliet killed herself. Delos angrily starts calling for Logan. William says he's dead too, overdose. William leaves as Delos throws a tantrum. The techs want to scrub but William says to watch to the bitter end, there might be some useful data.

Back in, some other unindexed time period, Elsie goes through the door. The light in there is emergency system red, except for a couple of overhead florescents that blink fitfully. Elsie sees a shape through a glass enclosure. Is it beyond psychotic Delos #149, still active somehow? Bernard, who may or may not actually be there, cautions her. She goes straight to the controls. It says security lockdown, but it accepts her password to override. So much for compartmentalized security. The doors open, and she proceeds with the rifle at the ready. Did Ford set this up too? This seems like a Hari Seldon level of prognostication.

The place inside is a wreck. "Playing with Fire" can be heard, or at least part of it. "Don't play with me" endlessly skipping. The tech is inside, dead. Someone is on the exercise bicycle. "Hello?" Elsie calls with the gun raised. Someone gets off the bicycle. The camera is taking its own good time in showing us who it is, but i suspect that's just a ploy to make us think it's going to turn out to not be Delos. Or is it a double fake? Hey, what if it's Ford? Unpause. It's Delos. His face is striped with blood. He says he's all the way down and can see all the way to the bottom. Does that mean if you don't scrub a human infused robot, it works through the breakdown? Maybe, but maybe not. Delos has a big sliver of glass in his hand. He charges and knocks away the rifle before Elsie can fire. Then he and Bernard are fighting so even if Bernard isn't sure, Delos believes he's actually there. Bernard knocks Delos through a wall. Delos falls and can't get up. Bernard looks down. Delos says that there is no god, just the devil and what we think of as god is just the devil's reflection. Elsie and Bernard leaves. Elsie activates the termination function. She says please tell me that was a host and not a human. He says i think it was both. Finally, he figures it out!

This episode is way long. I hope we can get back to Maeve. Can she compose a haiku to save her life?

Bernard says that while the Mr. Delos project was unsuccessful, he thinks Delos the corporation is going to keep trying. Elsie has a definite opinion about that. "There gonna get us all killed so some *&^%$#@! can live forever? $#@! that!" She wants to go to the mesa and contact someone outside. Bernard says wait, he thinks he's figured something out. The previous time he was there was because Ford wanted him to print out another control unit. He has to find out what it was for. He also claims he's in full control of himself now. Oh yeah? Prove it by getting rid of the glasses! Elsie says she'll go with him if he promises not to lie or hurt her again.

Time for another memory flash. This time he remembers how the techs died. It was him. He ordered the drones to kill them. That's how come the tray of eyeballs spilled it they were on a table that a body was hurled on to. Then he ordered the drones to kill themselves. Why? And why'd he miss the last one, then? He remembers that one of the techs was still alive and he remembers finishing him off with a head stomp. He then tells Elsie that everything is fine, which might actually not be a lie.

Daytime in Los Burros. MIB prepares to leave. I though Lawrence would be staying but, he's not only coming along, there are other townsfolk who've volunteered to come with him. The daughter comes up to him. Message from Ford? "I remember who you are, William. One good deed doesn't change anything." MIB says he's not in it for good deeds, he's here to play the game "to the bone". She says he still doesn't understand and if he's looking forward he's looking in the wrong direction. MIB rides off like a classic western loner, despite having Lawrence and the others following.

A silhouette rides out of the sun towards him. Is it Dolores? Nope, it's India Lady. She says "Hi, Dad".

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8 hours ago, Pallas said:

William began as Delos, Inc. staff -- he was Executive VP when he was engaged to Juliet and first visited the Park. He presumably became CEO upon the retirement of James Delos, but is now on the board of Delos Inc., and the majority shareholder of its subsidiary, Delos Destinations. Charlotte has the odd title of Executive Director of the Delos Board: not a traditional title for either a top executive or a board officer.

So who's running the show? Who decided to shut down the immortality project (along with the Parks, its luxe and lucrative front business) after the 149th bad robot? Is there a Delos, Inc. CEO/Board Chair we haven't met yet -- two people, or one? And will that prove to be Emily, as @DarkRaichu suggested? Or is it still William?

Interesting so there could be a shadow player that we haven't met yet who put all of this in motion.

Thanks for clearing up the roles. I only vaguely remembered the S1 scene between William/Charlotte, I thought she went to him because he was the head honcho

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1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I only vaguely remembered the S1 scene between William/Charlotte, I thought she went to him because he was the head honcho

And that may be right! But whatever an Executive Director of the Board is, she probably either reports to all the Board members, or is the CEO's liaison to them. She'd be attentive to William in any case.

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Maybe the wrist-slitting in the bathtub was a failed attempt?

Zahn McClarnon will always be the reservation cop Mathias from Longmire for me.  

I was also expecting Lawrence to say "motherfucker" again, like he has twice previously when MiB takes care of business.

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10 hours ago, Pallas said:

William began as Delos, Inc. staff -- he was Executive VP when he was engaged to Juliet and first visited the Park. He presumably became CEO upon the retirement of James Delos, but is now on the board of Delos Inc., and the majority shareholder of its subsidiary, Delos Destinations. Charlotte has the odd title of Executive Director of the Delos Board: not a traditional title for either a top executive or a board officer.

Charlotte is a lackey, maybe #1 lackey but still expendable to the board

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30 minutes ago, DarkRaichu said:

Charlotte is a lackey, maybe #1 lackey but still expendable to the board

I agree but I don't think that Charlotte is aware that she is expendable. And, if so, that has interesting possibilities.

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On 5/14/2018 at 5:26 PM, Gobi said:

Would not surprise me if Prohibition World was one of the parks we haven't seen yet.

NuckyBot vs Van AldenBot

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16 hours ago, mac123x said:

Until proven otherwise, I'm voting for continuity error.  I can understand MiB concocting a "took the wrong pills" cover story, except he was telling the story to Teddy (I think.  Might have been Lawrence).  He'd have no reason to lie to a host, who he knew wouldn't remember anyway, and the reason he was telling the story was that he didn't know his wife committed suicide until his daughter told him.  He was confessing to Teddy (or Lawrence) that he didn't even realize his family was scared of him.  That whole scene becomes pointless if he knew his wife killed herself.

 

14 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

Maybe William's wife did take some pills. And maybe real Grace/Emily slit her wrists and her bot remains, with some serious daddy issues.

 

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any indication there was definitely a wrist getting slit here. I thought we just saw someone in the bathtub while it overflowed. Taking the pills could have caused her to fall asleep and drown (e.g. Whitney Houston). The assumption would have been an accident (she took a pill that made her sleepy or accidentally overdosed) but there is also the possibility that she took the pills with the intent to commit suicide. I thought it was pretty clear that it was ruled accidental/assumed accidental but that his daughter confronted him because she believed it was suicide instead. Nothing about the bathtub precludes that scenario.

 

ETA: I have not watched the scene again so please let me know if I forgot something about the bath that did imply that. It's very possible I DID miss something. I realized after I posted that I was unclear about that.

Edited by The Companion

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1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any indication there was definitely a wrist getting slit here.

I did watch the scene again last night, and it's subtle, but there does appear to be blood on whose-ever hand that is. They caught that in the recap as well. I think my theory is unlikely, but I do find it interesting that in the previouslies the MiB mentions pills, but the person in the bathtub appears to have slit her wrists.

ETA: Well, I just re-read the recap, and they DO NOT mention blood in that scene. I thought I saw it, but I could be wrong.

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1 hour ago, The Companion said:

Maybe I missed something, but I didn't see any indication there was definitely a wrist getting slit here. I thought we just saw someone in the bathtub while it overflowed. Taking the pills could have caused her to fall asleep and drown (e.g. Whitney Houston).

I could have sworn there were blood drops mixed in with the water drops.

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