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S06.E23: Life Sentence


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1 minute ago, lemotomato said:

Thanks for continuing to ignore my point that BS is already a fugitive for past crimes.

What's clear is that the show is determined to ignore logic to keep KC around for some godforsaken reason. Which you're fine with, and I'm not.

Because she wasn't a fugitive. Team Flash kept her locked up in their own custody the first time and Oliver had Argus take her last year. CC didn't know she was part of the attacks w/Zoom. Argus doesn't always operate in the light so unless the only ones who could take her is Argus.

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16 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Thanks for continuing to ignore my point that BS is already a fugitive for past crimes.

What's clear is that the show is determined to ignore logic to keep KC around for some godforsaken reason. Which you're fine with, and I'm not.

BS is a mass murdering psycho, but the show is ignoring it therefore she really isn't guilty of anything and hey she looks like KC!

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19 minutes ago, tv echo said:

On the bright side, next season can only go up from here.

That's true but MG really left behind a scorched earth. I wonder if he did it on purpose to force keeping the image of the show he wanted.

I also wonder if he  let Beth have any say in what kind of set-up he left her or if he forced her to clean up whatever mess he left.

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3 minutes ago, Chaser said:

BS is a mass murdering psycho, but the show is ignoring it therefore she really isn't guilty of anything and hey she looks like KC!

YAAAASSS QUEEEN!!1! #RedemptionForBS

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(edited)
17 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I also wonder if he  let Beth have any say in what kind of set-up he left her or if he forced her to clean up whatever mess he left.

I wonder if Beth will have any real say in what goes on next season considering Gugggenheim is still "consulting" producer. Or is that just a title they gave him as a consolation? 

I can't even talk about how godawful this episode it. You guys have covered everything. I thought that last scene with Oliver & Felicity was finely acted by Stephen and Emily but it didn't engage my emotions because I was too mad at Oliver regressing to his old self. I went from super bored for most of the episode to raging mad in 5 seconds. I couldn't even feel sad over Quentin because of the stupidity of his storyline and the proliferation of birds/ex-birds with him. Ugh!

Oh, and we've always joked about KC looking like a robot in a lot of her scenes. This time, it looks like her wires were getting short-circuited:

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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Just now, SmallScreenDiva said:

I wonder if Beth will have any real say in what goes on next season considering Gugggenheim is still "consulting" producer. Or is that just a title they gave him as a consolation? 

Showrunner trumps consulting producer. It's basically a consolation title and option to bring him in if Beth doesn't come through. Beth has all the same say he and WM had for the show previously.

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1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I'm so invested in Oliver and Felicity, it's hard for me to just quit. And as angry as I am about this episode, it is hopefully the last time MG and WM screw up everything. I'll have to see if Beth and the new writers are going to keep treating my favorites as emotional punching bags before I decide.

I am too! And I'm so fond of you guys! Seriously if there was no fandom I reckon I would just hightail it! 

I feel like they keep throwing me a few nice treats before kicking me in the gut. Rinse and repeat! But I stay in the hopes I might get cake or something! Not healthy!!!!!

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I have to give a huge Thank You to all the posters who post in the Live Thread, not just this week, but every week.  Getting a head's up on what horrors await each week has been the best thing ever.  I usually read the live thread while watching something else but of course, I chose this week, in honor of the finale, to go in blind.  Ugh.  Even with fastforwarding a good chunk (read: most) it still took me 25 minutes to watch because I had to keep stopping to yell at the tv.  Because it hasn't been said enough, she's not your freaking daughter, Q.  Good gravy.  This show is so dumb.  I did love going back to read the live thread, y'all are hilarious.

As for the much anticipated Olicity scene, I agree with others who've said they appreciated the acting, but the scene itself was overshadowed by how idiotic the situation was.  Plus, whatever the combination of stage direction in the script and direction from Bam, it really failed that scene.  I initially though Oliver must be handcuffed to the desk and Felicity wasn't permitted to touch him but in comes William and Oliver pops right out of his seat.  So no contact between a wife and husband being separated for who knows how long?  For as tactile as these two actors usually are, it came across as really odd.

Then poof, Oliver's in a supermax, just like that (and a supermax that looks suspiciously like a regular prison).

I know logic and Arrow have often been on different planes of existence, but this was bad even by their usual standards.

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He didn't even hug William. Left him sitting on a chair. Seriously WTF!

I want to know if MG and WM decided to sh@t all over this before they left or if they are genuinely THAT bad! No one can be THAT BAD surely?????

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I know we're probably supposed to believe that Oliver didn't tell Felicity because he knew she'd talk him out of it or try to find another way (crazy that!) but it really did feel like he cared more about saying sorry to the newbies than talking to his wife. And I HATE that because it's just not true. The Olicity they've built this season has been amazing and solid and probably the best part about this mess so Oliver's behavior here still doesn't make any sense to me. And I know he's made unilateral decisions before but I really felt like he'd learned his lesson. I guess not? IDK. The last thing I want is more Olicity drama so part of me hopes it's resolved pretty quickly.

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(edited)

I think we're supposed to think that Oliver values the opinions of Felicity and Diggle so much that he didn't want to talk it over with them because they would tell him not to do this but really it makes it look like he so stupid he does things he knows are stupid just to do them.

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I wonder if Beth will have any real say in what goes on next season considering Gugggenheim is still "consulting" producer. Or is that just a title they gave him as a consolation?

 

I take comfort in the fact that it was Beth and Berlanti in the room when they were telling SA what is going to happen next season, not MG.

36 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I want to know if MG and WM decided to sh@t all over this before they left or if they are genuinely THAT bad! No one can be THAT BAD surely?????

I think they genuinely are that bad.  But there is also a lot of pissiness in how MG left it, forcing Beth to have to deal not only with Diaz and the Longbow Hunters (really, who cares other than fanboys?) as well as Black Siren and NTA, the situation of Oliver yet again doing things on his own that have a lot of consequence on Felicity, and worst of all William and Felicity being TARGETED FOREVER as associated with the Green Arrow.

Unless Beth finds a way to dial it all back. It would be a miracle.

Edited by statsgirl
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(edited)

Had to watch the show again with my brother. He immediately said apology tour. Hated it. 

 

The scene with the lasers had the exact and I mean the exact same stunt as last week. Last week O&F ran out the door as bombs were going off and they both fall and slide. This time R & and FBI girl run out and fall and slide the same way with bombs going off.

 

I get it there are only so many stunts but the very next week?

Edited by BunsenBurner
I’m thinking about too many things.
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(edited)

I am so fucking done with this show ending on cliffhangers that are very obviously going to be reversed at the first sign of trouble. 

This is Liang Yu blowing up all over again. Or, you know. a very recent Snappening. 

And Diaz is still around and well??? Must we slog through another season with this failure of a big bad?

Edited by mrspidey
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(edited)

MG’s explanation is just an excuse for not bothering to come up with a good reason for Oliver going to prison. If Oliver had told Felicity he would have had to explain his dumbass decision. It’s soooooo lazy and of course once again robs Felicity of any opportunity of expressing her emotions regarding Oliver making yet another decision that leaves her with a giant mess to deal with. 

Edited by leopardprint
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6 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Sure, because who would want to see that?

16 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

The FBI can't even make a deal right. It's not like they were competent enough to get rid of Diaz on their own, so their solution is to imprison the guy who got closest?? /insert confused gif

I liked much more the spec of working for the FBI in prison. That had potential. This is just beyond dumb.

I’m still holding out hope they reveal that to be the case and Oliver didn’t knowinlgy leave his family forever and left the hellhole of the city he loves so much to be “defended” by the witless wonders. The fact that he ended up in a supermax without any due process gives me hope that this is a set up and the real deal is him working for the FBI inside the prison.

14 hours ago, SleepDeprived said:

My biggest laugh of the night was when I realized that Curtis got bupkus on the goodbye front. LMAO! He's so damn useless, I don't know why he's still around. But then I realized that if Watson hadn't said that the FBI transport was late, Felicity wouldn't have gotten a goodbye from Oliver, too. Whether or not Watson was fibbing to give Felicity and William a little bit of time talk to Oliver in the holding room, I don't know. But it makes me angry that Guggenheim/Mericle couldn't even let Oliver and Felicity have a proper goodbye scene and yet they had all the time in the world to let Oliver apologize to almost everyone else (for everything that's not his fault, at all).

I'm so, so annoyed. Do y'all feel like Guggenheim and Mericle were really trying to fuck everyone over with this finale?
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This season sucked but I always hoped they could turn things around before the hiatus. I know this is Arrow and I really should've known better but hope springs eternal in the human breast and all that... If Marc and Wendy really torched this finale because they weren't continuing on with the show then, man, that is so petty. Even if they didn't mean to write it that way and this was really the story that they could, to the very best of their abilities, come up with then damn. They are terrible at this!

Frankly, I’d respect their writing abilities more if this was on purpose. If they thought a final hour of their hero needlessly apologizing to people who absolutely don’t deserve it, protecting them while ruining his and his family’s lives, Quentin calling BS baby (!!!!), DDDiaz skulking around like a sullen two year old... is what this season needed to end in style, I have no words.

Seriously, I haven’t been crazy about the last two finales either, but this takes the cake. I miss the days of S1-3 finales when I was emotionally engaged. This mostly went between are you kidding me - are you finally going to kill him - can we get something good, please? Anything.

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Speaking of the directing, one of the reasons why the last Olicity scene annoyed me (besides Oliver being dumb) is that they were standing pretty far apart and that makes no sense to me. This is the last time they're going to see each other before Oliver gets put in Supermax, they're one of the most touchy feely couples on TV and I'm supposed to believe that they're okay holding hands across a table like she's visiting him in prison? That makes no sense! I doubt it's an acting issue, or else it would have come up before (plus the acting in the scene was great), so why would a director stage them like that? It doesn't fit the moment and it doesn't fit the characters either. 

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21 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Who is that?

An insider. LOL! I don’t really know but she was behind getting some members of the crew to donate to the Olicity Bench.

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18 minutes ago, doesntworkonwood said:

Speaking of the directing, one of the reasons why the last Olicity scene annoyed me (besides Oliver being dumb) is that they were standing pretty far apart and that makes no sense to me. This is the last time they're going to see each other before Oliver gets put in Supermax, they're one of the most touchy feely couples on TV and I'm supposed to believe that they're okay holding hands across a table like she's visiting him in prison? That makes no sense! I doubt it's an acting issue, or else it would have come up before (plus the acting in the scene was great), so why would a director stage them like that? It doesn't fit the moment and it doesn't fit the characters either. 

Same,I'm just not getting why have it be so weird.Like who thinks a couple who believe they will be separated for life wouldn't kiss or hug or say ily.It didn't seem natural even tho the acting was good.Just a really dumb idea to put a table between them in that moment and stage it like that.

Edited by tangerine95
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(edited)

For a finale that was hyped as being emotionally exhausting, the only emotion I feel is anger at how they wrapped up a largely disappointing season.  I don’t know if that’s what they were going for, if was an accidental outcome of poor writing and story planning, poor directing and editing choices by Bamford or Marc just decided to burn everything down on his way out the door.  

Thank god for the five month hiatus! 

Edited by kes0704
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1 minute ago, tangerine95 said:

Same,I'm just not getting why have it be so weird.Like who thinks a couple who believe they will be separated for life wouldn't kiss or hug or say ily.It didn't seem natural even tho the acting was good.Just a really dumb idea to put a table between them in that moment and stage it like that.

So if they cut the emotional F&O scene then why should I come back next season? I wonder if SA & EBR realize they cut the scene, if they did? It would be a good question to ask at one of the fan fests. 

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(edited)
8 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

So if they cut the emotional F&O scene then why should I come back next season? I wonder if SA & EBR realize they cut the scene, if they did? It would be a good question to ask at one of the fan fests. 

Maybe idk how much they cut.But I'm surprised SA and EBR hyped that so much and said it's intimate and stuff.It wasn't that special imo and they had much better scenes in the past two episodes alone.Just look at 3.20 for a great goodbye scene for a couple about to be separated forever.I can see it maybe from an acting POV because they were good but as fan watching I was underwhelmed which is not usually the case with big emotional olicity scenes.

Edited by tangerine95
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(edited)

Bamford probably wanted the minutes for his long, unnecessarily drawn-out rooftop fight in the dark between Oliver & Diaz.  

Btw, one reviewer said that, if Oliver didn't want to kill Diaz, he should've used his boxing glove arrow to knock Diaz out. Boom, and done.

Edited by tv echo
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1 hour ago, doesntworkonwood said:

I doubt it's an acting issue, or else it would have come up before (plus the acting in the scene was great), so why would a director stage them like that? It doesn't fit the moment and it doesn't fit the characters either. 

Because Bamford sucks. He really has no idea what he's doing. 

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I don't know if it's the fault of MG & WM or of Bamford but at this point I really have zero sympathy for Oliver because he didn't talk it over with Felicity first.

She signed up to be the wife of the mayor of Star City and a secret vigilante; she didn't sign up to spend an indefinite time in hiding as a single parent and then have a target on her back for the rest of her marriage to an outed vigilante.

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(edited)
2 hours ago, way2interested said:

If that conversation had happened with Oliver clearly chained to the table or behind a glass wall, it would have been devastating, but happening in a room where both of them were free to move around and had privacy and then for him not to go to her and then not even to mention her specifically in his speech about keeping everyone safe came off bad.  She's just lumped in with any random joe off the streets that he needed to save.  Oliver is making a huge sacrifice but he's not acknowledging the burden he's put on her and William or even expressing how much it hurts him to leave.     It's not realistic for who they are or where they are.  I don't know what they could have cut that would have made the scene better.  We can pretend they had their proper goodbye offscreen but in a finale where they are supposed to be milking the pain of Oliver being sentenced for life away from his wife and son, they screwed up big time.   

I honestly think they didn't show a hug, I love, or a goodbye kiss or a goodbye of any kind because we sort of got that scene during his trial.  But the reason it worked then would have been the reason it really worked in this episode as well because it's honest human reaction and true to the characters and the circumstance.  It being similar to what had recently been done would not have detracted from the emotional punch.    

Of course, even if they had managed to include a touching goodbye, we still have the huge problem of Oliver unilaterally making this huge life-altering choice. And ultimately the fail falls at Diaz's feet since if they'd succeeded in making him what the characters just kept saying about him being so big and scary and unstoppable, then we would have a motive behind Oliver making such a crappy deal.   

They can clear up the problem of Oliver not talking to Felicity beforehand with Oliver confessing something along the lines of him not being able to face what he was losing or the promises he was breaking to them or even that he isn't capable of saying goodbye to Felicity.  The thing about being afraid she would talk him out is more problematic since that only works if he had a good reason to make the deal and the only way it would be a good idea is if he thought the imminent threat Diaz brought to Felicity and William was so overwhelming there was no other way to keep them safe.  If I bought that at all then I could accept his actions, but they couldn't sell Diaz so they can't sell Oliver's choice. 

I mean, Oliver, I get being willing to sacrifice his life but he sacrificed Felicity and Williams as well, not just depriving them of him, but of their future safety by outing himself as the GA publically.  That is so extreme!  And if yes, Oliver thought there was no other way to fight the threat, he would unilaterally make that choice and I'd get it.  

But it's fricken one dimensional Diaz.  Even taking over the whole city he never came off as a genuine fear-inspiring threat, just some guy that had gotten ahead of them and they were going to have to work together to bring him down.  Which they only just had gotten back together to do. 

Going to Watson and trading Oliver's freedom and his family's freedom and their future safety is too extreme compared to the danger level.  He felt a responsibility to save the city but it's not like Diaz was going to blow up the whole city or was systematically targetting innocents if they didn't stop him immediately.  Diaz wasn't even hurting regular people, only going after Oliver and company.  So the deal Oliver made was either motivated by his abject fear to his family or his family matters less to him than random strangers being stuck with a corrupt government for a bit longer that so far hadn't radically impacted their day to day life.  The consequence to the city was just having to wait longer while they go through other means to prove it and stop Diaz.  

So, of course, there's a huge disconnect emotionally between the audience and Oliver's actions.  They just don't make sense.  

My only fanwank is that John and the newbs beat up his self-esteem so badly that he was convinced his family was better off without him.  In which case I hate them all so much more.  

Edited by BkWurm1
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7 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I also don't know why the bothered to bring Sara in if she wasn't going to get to say goodbye to her father. If he was going to die off-screen she could've found that over the off season break. Was it really to meet NotYanny? That didn't do much for me. She should've spent time with her real family. The only thing I liked was Sara hugging Felicity instead of her not sister. I was worried that's who they would have comfort her. 

I'm with you.  I was like "they brought Caity Lotz in for this?"  (I went on YouTube last night and found the Sara hallway scene.)  And I did like the hug - I've always wanted more Saralicity friendship and they've never given anything but crumbs.  But other than that..... why?  I thought they brought her in to give Sara some final scenes with (living) Quentin - I've always loved their relationship.  But no.  Was it really just to meet BS?  If so, hard pass.  Not like this.  When I first heard about CL coming on for the final, I was so hoping I'd get to see Sara kick her ass.  Disappointment all around. Lol.

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(edited)

I usually seek out spoilers for all my shows, but this season for whatever reason, I haven't done so for any of my shows.

So I went into last night's episode completely blind, not knowing that Quentin was gonna die for that asshole BS. And that just pissed me off. I honestly wanted to punch the FUCK out of fake Laurel. I'm so SICK of seeing any and all versions of Laurel Lance, just because some idiot from the network thinks Katie Cassidy is the network's sweetheart. Ugh.

STILL hate the fucking newbies, with the exception of Curtis. I like his friendship with Felicity, and watching them "geek out" together.

Dinah and Rene can get hit by a truck for all I care about those dumbasses.

Quentin got g***** with his death scene big time. I was hoping that Sara would come back and they'd have a huge emotional scene right before he dies, but of course not. Because they wasted the emotional scene on NOT HIS DAUGHTER! 

The Quentin and Oliver scene actually had me tear up because I love how their dynamic/relationship has changed over the course of the show. Quentin went from hating/blaming Oliver for Sara's death, and seeing him as just an asshole playboy, to seeing Oliver as a son to him and Oliver seeing Q as a father. Let's also not forget Q's wonderful scenes with Thea the last time they shared scenes.

Moving on, Diaz sucks. End of fucking story. Oliver should've put an arrow in this asshole's head the moment he figured out that Cayden James was just a figurehead. 

The hallway scene where we learned that Quentin died, I love the hug between Sara and Felicity. We haven't had any friendship scenes between them in ages.

Onto Olicity. Their scenes were nice, but not at all like I had hoped. As others have pointed out, why the fuck didn't Oliver hug/hold Felicity and William, console them both, and kiss his wife goodbye? What kind of shit is that? Oh, and Oliver, STOP WITHHOLDING INFORMATION FROM YOUR WIFE, YOU MORON!

Edited by Laina
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20 minutes ago, jaye.elle said:

I'm thinking this was deliberate to allow Roy to return to Star City... If so, I can roll with that. The Tommy thing was silly though.

It probably was which still doesnt make sense since "Tommy" proclaiming to be GA should've cleared all that up. But that's Arrow for you.

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I think what really bothers me is that I feel like, at least in terms of demonstrably giving a flying flip about the feelings of his loved ones, they nearly regressed Oliver not to Season 4 levels but to almost pre-island Ollie levels. I mean, he's not cheating and he genuinely believes he's doing the right thing but it's all just so beyond how rational humans think relationships work that it's ridiculous. It amounted to "Hey, honey, guess what? I'm being arrested and you get to raise my kid in protective custody, away from everyone else you love. Oh, it was my idea and has been the plan for days. Days that I've spent apologizing to literally everyone but you and my son despite repeatedly promising both of you that you won't lose me. Why are you upset?"

And all in service of the belief that a guy who might have made a passableish villain of the week is more powerful/terrifying than anyone Oliver has faced before. Which, just to be clear, there's not enough NO! in the world for.

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I can't believe I correctly predicted how the season would end a couple of Episodes ago right here in this board. I said knowing these assholes in charge, the season was gonna end with Oliver and the people who always believed in him screwed over or worse while the Godddam Newbs, Dig and BS get off free.. and lo and behold Oliver is in Jail, Felicity and William are in ARGUS Protective Custody after having to see the man she loves/his father go to Jail and Quentin Is fucking dead, While two of the worst POS Villians ARE STILL ALIVE. GRRRRRRRR I'm so glad Guggentroll and Merichole are gone, and I'm willing to believe they created this shit cause they are Petty and childish 

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(edited)

Let’s pretend I am going to say how great the finale was(laughing maniacally) and that the writers and directors were able to give us a creepy scary evil villain but I can’t. 

Neither the writers, the directors nor the actor playing Diaz were able to pull it off. They all told us he was evil but none of them succeeded in showing us his his true villainy. Unfortunately we the viewers have seen and were led quite nicely to believe that other villains of seasons past were far superior in their creepiness than Diaz will ever be and unfortunately mumbling really destroys that as well.

Funny thing, to me anyway, Rene is more of a villain than Diaz for quickly giving up Oliver to the FBI and being such a s**tbag about it. We were being shown this for many episodes. Both are shown to be thugs but that’s nothing in the scheme of the season. 

The writing for Oliver was obviously written for plot. Apology Tour anyone?  If written correctly the leadership that he showed would have made the finale great. Leadership is the lonely position that he’s held for the past 6 years. It’s about sacrifice it’s thankless and it’s hard and he did what he felt was right to take down this thug. Here’s the problem with this we’ve seen this for 6 years and now all of a sudden no one wants him to be their leader. They had to do it for plot. They tried to destroy our sense of righteous indignation on behalf of Oliver by telling us it was wrong to feel that way that all the misfitNTA and Diggle were in the right. It took away any sense that what he did was right and proper because it was for plot. We the viewers know that he wouldn’t do that to Felicity without giving her a heads up. They have come to far and have shown us that they communicate and for plot they take it all away.

This back and forth of doing plot over characterization between the writers and the actors makes it impossible for them to to show us that this finale should make sense. 

Diaz should have died. There were too many opportunities for his death but plot prevailed. NTA should probably have died their stories were just not that compelling. Why does the show need 2 metas with the same powers?  Why do we need metas st all. We were promised no super powers. Curtis is able to throw his orbs yay?  That’s his fighting ability?

We, the audience, want someone who will lead and we’ve enjoyed Oliver for 6 seasons. But the writers have given Oliver Yo-yo syndrome (today he’s a brilliant strategist but tomorrow he’s an absolute idiot) it’s been 6 long years and the writers seemed to have come to the conclusion telling us but not showing us is their way of destroying everything we’ve been viewing since the beginning. They made Oliver grovel one too many times in this finale  

Poor Lance and BS, the material they’ve been given has sucked all season. The death of Lance was a travesty of writing for an OG actor. What a horrible way to let him die and to miss saying good-bye to Sara. 

The only redeeming scene to me was between Oliver and Lance. What was it a minute or so?  

To sum up the finale should have been great but the Apology tour ruined that right away. That suitcase with the GA suit and the neon lighting inside it was absurd. The fact fact that all of a sudden the suit wasn’t the reason Diggle was angry was ridiculous. The one bright light was Anatoly and his giving himself up other than that nothing else made sense. In the real world Diaz would have been dead very quickly.

Finally did he ever apologize to Felicity? If he did it never computed in my brain  

Watching this show last night and today made me feel embarrassed for the actors and made me itchy all over. It just was not good. 

Edited by BunsenBurner
Typing this on my phone was weird.
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I mean, if it was some superfluous ship scene it's whatever, but they cut out pretty much anything moving about Oliver knowing and acknowledging what he was giving up by making this deal. It was like he was going away awaiting trial, not THE REST OF HIS LIFE. There wasn't any urgency or finality to it at all. Terrible decision. 

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2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

So there were some cuts made in the episode:

Imagine needing to cut 7 minutes and you decide to cut into the major emotional scene between the leads. If anything, that should've been the most important scene/moment. I mean, did we need to see that FBI lady freak out that she was gonna die? There was easily other things that could've been cut.

Well it was important to show the same running and bombing scene as they had the week before. 

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(edited)

IMO Oliver and Felicity's goodbye scene was the emotional crux of the whole episode because Oliver was going to prison for life and this was the last time he'll see his wife and son for a while, presumably, and on top of that he hadn't even told her. Why on earth they'd cut anything from that moment is beyond me. 

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BTW Bamford seems to have tweeted a bit more explaining his decisions. I'm not sure how much was cut from the O/F scene, it seems like maybe other things were cut too. IDK. Either way, bad decisions all around!

Edited by Angel12d
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Of course dude bros Bamford who got his position through nepotism and literally panned a camera on Caitys ass when she was walking in a scene in the past and gives off an allergic to anything feminine vibe would cut from a necessary emotional scene while keeping all his action shots with his lame ass equally dude bros dickish mumbly villain.

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(edited)

I think about how non-Mirakuru'd Slade was more intimidating and scary in his boring episodes this season (that are masterpieces in retrospect) and TPTB are really trying to tell me DDDiaz is the biggest bad to ever bad? Except for that super evil group he had to join that folded in 30 seconds. Or the new big bads I'm supposed to be scared of? 

I think it was @apinknightmare who said in the live thread or elsewhere that the gaslighting was out of control this year. 

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Edited by calliope1975
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(edited)

Gaslighting seems to be how they make us see their vision.  Because they certainly aren't writing it.

2 hours ago, BunsenBurner said:

Well it was important to show the same running and bombing scene as they had the week before. 

And redeeming Rene with that phone call to his daughter and then saving the FBI agent.  Making NTA look good >>>>>>>>>>>> OTA real emotion.

Edited by statsgirl
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