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Finals, Training Camp and Social Media

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4 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

In the Season 12 cameo shoot episode, Kelli said Keyra had an athletic type build (no long, lean legs, boots taken up most of her leg to her knee, and thick thighs showing up on camera.) She made it because Kelli liked her dancing. She did look the same from last season, and Keyra did look like the heaviest vet at the swimsuit fittings.

A vet may have a good solo, but the solo is a small part of the finals audition. How she looks in the uniform and on the field's big screen plays a big part in a vet coming back or not. She may have been outdanced and/or the majority of the finalists now TC Candiates look better than she does. She did say she did not make it to TC before because of weight. To be honest about it, I was surprised they took her on the squad in the first place when other TC Candidates were cut for weight or shape were in better shape and better dancers in earlier seasons than Keyra was.

I'm a long time follower of the DCC and I'm aware of the steps it takes to try to become a DCC and all of the K&J do's/dont's/looks/etc. However, to me Keyra has the same issue that Candy had(I think that is her name, she married a golf player and was on the squad with Brooke) short leg syndrome and the boots were not flattering and they were both thick in all the wrong places for a DCC. Candy left the DCC on her own accord and was not cut. Both Candy and Keyra can dance. I just honestly think that Judy never liked her from the beginning and she made it known that she didn't. I really hope they tell us why but they will probably just blame it on weight.  

Sorry if I totally forgot her name...Candy is just stuck in my head.

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4 minutes ago, DCCFAN71 said:

I'm a long time follower of the DCC and I'm aware of the steps it takes to try to become a DCC and all of the K&J do's/dont's/looks/etc. However, to me Keyra has the same issue that Candy had(I think that is her name, she married a golf player and was on the squad with Brooke) short leg syndrome and the boots were not flattering and they were both thick in all the wrong places for a DCC. Candy left the DCC on her own accord and was not cut. Both Candy and Keyra can dance. I just honestly think that Judy never liked her from the beginning and she made it known that she didn't. I really hope they tell us why but they will probably just blame it on weight.  

Sorry if I totally forgot her name...Candy is just stuck in my head.

Kandi Harris was a third year vet who retired after Season 3. I think she was the lowest ranked vet in Season 3 due to weight issues. I remember a preview in Season 3 where Judy said they never cut a vet so late in TC. When the squad was finally announced, Kandi was crying and was being hugged by other vets.

In my opinion, I think Kandi was more attractive and a much better dancer than Keyra was. She may have been warned about her weight during the season. Posters can say Christina and Savannah should be grateful three vets were cut at finals, and Holly and Erica left the squad during TC, but I think Keyra should be grateful also, and I think being good friends with Cersten and a cousin of Jacie help her in the long run.

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1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

I think she got a second chance from Kelli because Kelli respected the fact she was a teacher and knew how hard her schedule was.

I agree, I think I remember Kelli actually saying this to Selina when she called her in the office last season.

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3 hours ago, Cheerocracy said:

Objectively, Yuko is adorable and Cassie had a nice body.

Agreed

Just now, Shan18 said:

Agreed

Gahhh this site is acting up on me. Sorry for the double response

I know its been mentioned a lot about fairness with weight cuts but in my opinion I don’t think any vet has ever came back to audition looking as big as Selina. Some a bit think but not near as out of shape (dcc standards) as she looked.  Am I wrong and not remembering someone? 

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11 minutes ago, Shan18 said:

Agreed

Gahhh this site is acting up on me. Sorry for the double response

I know its been mentioned a lot about fairness with weight cuts but in my opinion I don’t think any vet has ever came back to audition looking as big as Selina. Some a bit think but not near as out of shape (dcc standards) as she looked.  Am I wrong and not remembering someone? 

I had problems Sunday with the site to point I was ready to scream.

In the case of possible out of shape vets, I think there are a few like Hannah, Veronica and Allie did not look good at finals when they were called out for weight. I have not seen a picture of Selina at finals from last Friday.

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1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

Kandi Harris was a third year vet who retired after Season 3. I think she was the lowest ranked vet in Season 3 due to weight issues. I remember a preview in Season 3 where Judy said they never cut a vet so late in TC. When the squad was finally announced, Kandi was crying and was being hugged by other vets.

In my opinion, I think Kandi was more attractive and a much better dancer than Keyra was. She may have been warned about her weight during the season. Posters can say Christina and Savannah should be grateful three vets were cut at finals, and Holly and Erica left the squad during TC, but I think Keyra should be grateful also, and I think being good friends with Cersten and a cousin of Jacie help her in the long run.

Kandi had surgery around that time.  I don't know when she had it, so if she wasn't strong in her solo or couldn't do the jump split, maybe that is why she was low.  And I think that is also when Nicole and Dara flunked the written test. 

And in my opinion, Kandi is one of the best dancers they have ever had.

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23 minutes ago, Shan18 said:

I know its been mentioned a lot about fairness with weight cuts but in my opinion I don’t think any vet has ever came back to audition looking as big as Selina. Some a bit think but not near as out of shape (dcc standards) as she looked.  Am I wrong and not remembering someone?

I recall when Breelan was auditioning for her 2nd year they did a close-up of her stomach jiggling when she danced.

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5 minutes ago, scorpio1031 said:

Kandi had surgery around that time.  I don't know when she had it, so if she wasn't strong in her solo or couldn't do the jump split, maybe that is why she was low.  And I think that is also when Nicole and Dara flunked the written test. 

And in my opinion, Kandi is one of the best dancers they have ever had.

I do remember Kandi at practice, but she was not dancing. I think she had a tail bone injury. And yes, I agree Kandi being one of the best dancers they ever had. She was adorable and the all around DCC to me.

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I agree with you, @ByTor.  Breelan was the main one I was thinking of for weight gain, but there have been others.  With Allie, I think it was more of how her body is shaped rather than actual weight gain.  She's boxy rather than slender like the rest of the girls so ANY weight gain on her, especially around the middle, looks like a lot.  We've also commented a LOT about how the "accepted" DCC body shape has changed over the years this show has been on.  Girls like Brooke Sorenson, Kandi Harris, Meredith Oden, and Erica Jenkins, while amazing dancers in their own right, are more "womanly" with hips and curves while nowadays, it's ruler- or stick-straight with few to no curves.

The majority of us look at the "early" years (early in terms of the show) and see how amazing and memorable those dancers are/were while, in recent years, the girls are seen as boring, blah or blenders.  We don't see the personalities, the talent or the diversity of those early squads nowadays.  Part of that is the jumbotron or whatever it's called.  Yes, it brings the field up to those in the top bleachers who have to use field glasses/binoculars just to see that there are people on the field, but it also puts pressure on the girls to be stick-skinny.  Another part of that is that K/J/C have put these girls into a very unhealthy atmosphere for getting to, or maintaining, a healthy weight for each individual girl.  From the little I've seen on the show and from what I've heard elsewhere (including here), K/J/C don't care as much about the girls' health (mental or physical) as much as they do about appearance in uniform among other things.

And now, I'll get off my soapbox because people already know how I "hate" on K/J/C due to their lack of knowledge (and that they don't care to educate themselves) on the topics of nutrition (especially in dancers), how metabolism changes, and many other things that would be beneficial for these girls.

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5 minutes ago, EricaShadows said:

Breelan was the main one I was thinking of for weight gain,

Now that she's away from that atmosphere, she looks better than ever:

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7 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Now that she's away from that atmosphere, she looks better than ever:

She's beautiful! 

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I always thought Paige looked the worst the year that she, Veronica, and Hannah were in trouble for weight. I believe she had actually had the most weight gain at 13 pounds. She was really jiggly in the midsection and her face was noticeably puffy. I know there were rumors that she was going through her divorce so they went a little easy on her. She ended up getting back in shape, and for a while I thought she was actually dangerously skinny.

I can’t comment on whether Paige looked worse than Selina did this year until I see the footage on the show. Honestly I can’t tell that Selina looked as bad as everyone is saying she did from the limited video footage and pictures we’ve seen. Not saying she wasn’t heavier than she should have been, but I just need more video/photo evidence to get a better read on it.

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4 hours ago, Jennv said:

Positive 

I saw her, too. I rewound it back as well. I was surprised. I'm thinking she is early 30's. I though someone said she was 29/30 when she made it, which was three years ago. 

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8 hours ago, go4luca said:

I kept hoping they'd bring her back and have it be like what happened to Kelli when she was told she didn't have to audition again because she didn't have anything left to prove.

Jinelle is an All Star this year according to @ShellyB

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39 minutes ago, Raccoon said:

I always thought Paige looked the worst the year that she, Veronica, and Hannah were in trouble for weight. I believe she had actually had the most weight gain at 13 pounds. She was really jiggly in the midsection and her face was noticeably puffy. I know there were rumors that she was going through her divorce so they went a little easy on her. She ended up getting back in shape, and for a while I thought she was actually dangerously skinny.

I can’t comment on whether Paige looked worse than Selina did this year until I see the footage on the show. Honestly I can’t tell that Selina looked as bad as everyone is saying she did from the limited video footage and pictures we’ve seen. Not saying she wasn’t heavier than she should have been, but I just need more video/photo evidence to get a better read on it.

I cannot understand why Hannah was cut, and Paige was safe from being cut. Maybe Hannah was called out for weight during the season, but I thought she was a better dancer and was more attractive than Paige was. No rhyme or reason behind a lot of the cuts.

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7 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

I cannot understand why Hannah was cut, and Paige was safe from being cut. Maybe Hannah was called out for weight during the season, but I thought she was a better dancer and was more attractive than Paige was. No rhyme or reason behind a lot of the cuts.

I think it was because Paige was told once and she lost the weight.  Hannah had a problem thru out her rookie year, and when they mentioned it to her during TC in her second year, she seemed to not understand what the problem was.

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Regarding the jobs: I remember Kelli telling Danielle and the one TCC who quit her pharmaceutical rep job that they had people eager to hire DCC’s if they needed those connections.

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Hannah did get weight warnings her rookie year, so being on their radar for weight should not have been a surprise to her when she started her 2nd training camp. She also was one of the last vets called into camp at finals that year, so she had to know that she was on at least somewhat thin ice. I'm not saying she wasn't blindsided by the cut (I agree with others that they were making an example of her), but I think she may have felt that she was such a favorite hot blonde star dancer her rookie year that she had more wiggle room for warnings than she did. She gained 11 pounds her rookie year to the start of year two. Selina may well be 10-15 pounds heavier than her rookie year, and she knew she was on weight watch. Good for her for pulling off DCC for three years, and I hope she has more positive memories and feelings of accomplishment than bad feelings about the experience or herself right now. 

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7 hours ago, karendlt said:

I THINK she will be 31 this year

ugh. the bangs. I'd love to see a different style on her

She is very beautiful, but I am not feeling the bangs either

Edited by mcmrdh · Reason: changed my thought
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7 hours ago, M1977G said:

Good for her for pulling off DCC for three years,

Didn't Selina do 2 years?

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10 hours ago, ByTor said:

Now that she's away from that atmosphere, she looks better than ever:

That girl could sit right next to me and I wouldn't know it was Breelan!

7 hours ago, M1977G said:

Hannah did get weight warnings her rookie year, so being on their radar for weight should not have been a surprise to her when she started her 2nd training camp. She also was one of the last vets called into camp at finals that year, so she had to know that she was on at least somewhat thin ice. I'm not saying she wasn't blindsided by the cut (I agree with others that they were making an example of her), but I think she may have felt that she was such a favorite hot blonde star dancer her rookie year that she had more wiggle room for warnings than she did. She gained 11 pounds her rookie year to the start of year two. Selina may well be 10-15 pounds heavier than her rookie year, and she knew she was on weight watch. Good for her for pulling off DCC for three years, and I hope she has more positive memories and feelings of accomplishment than bad feelings about the experience or herself right now. 

Amen!  I wish for her that she had taken the hint and not tried out.  I hate it when the cut vets have to leave something that they were so proud of on a negative note!

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16 hours ago, Jess14 said:

Regarding the DCC requirement to have a job, it seems like the schedule over the last 2 weeks is a good reminder why it’s difficult for many of them to have a full time job. Last week, a girl would’ve had to take off at least 2 days off for interviews and then solos/field performance (and I’m sure many took off at least one other day to prep). Now, this week, they leave on a Tuesday for the Bahamas, and I assume will be gone the rest of the week. Then, when they get back, training camp starts, so they have to be there every night. That’s tough for a real 8/9 to 5 full time job, especially one where the boss couldn’t care less that [insert cheerleader] is a DCC and expects her to put in the same time and effort as every other employee.

Several of the girls have even quit jobs once TC started to focus their time solely on TC. 

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12 hours ago, EricaShadows said:

I agree with you, @ByTor.  Breelan was the main one I was thinking of for weight gain, but there have been others.  With Allie, I think it was more of how her body is shaped rather than actual weight gain.  She's boxy rather than slender like the rest of the girls so ANY weight gain on her, especially around the middle, looks like a lot.  We've also commented a LOT about how the "accepted" DCC body shape has changed over the years this show has been on.  Girls like Brooke Sorenson, Kandi Harris, Meredith Oden, and Erica Jenkins, while amazing dancers in their own right, are more "womanly" with hips and curves while nowadays, it's ruler- or stick-straight with few to no curves.

The majority of us look at the "early" years (early in terms of the show) and see how amazing and memorable those dancers are/were while, in recent years, the girls are seen as boring, blah or blenders.  We don't see the personalities, the talent or the diversity of those early squads nowadays.  Part of that is the jumbotron or whatever it's called.  Yes, it brings the field up to those in the top bleachers who have to use field glasses/binoculars just to see that there are people on the field, but it also puts pressure on the girls to be stick-skinny.  Another part of that is that K/J/C have put these girls into a very unhealthy atmosphere for getting to, or maintaining, a healthy weight for each individual girl.  From the little I've seen on the show and from what I've heard elsewhere (including here), K/J/C don't care as much about the girls' health (mental or physical) as much as they do about appearance in uniform among other things.

And now, I'll get off my soapbox because people already know how I "hate" on K/J/C due to their lack of knowledge (and that they don't care to educate themselves) on the topics of nutrition (especially in dancers), how metabolism changes, and many other things that would be beneficial for these girls.

I cannot love this enough!  I’ve often thought exactly what you’ve written so well - today’s teams seem much less memorable than those before, and the weight issue is a major reason.   Thank you for taking the time to write this!

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18 hours ago, Smplsimon said:

Kashara was a little heavy when she joined the squad that's true, but she was also a powerhouse dancer.  Victoria Kalina, on the other hand, is both fat and a terrible dancer.  The judges this year were shut down when they tried to raise the issue of her weight.  It pays to have the right mom, clearly.  Just ask Dayton, Cassie, and Victoria!

How and where is she fat? I'm so confused.

16 hours ago, karendlt said:

I THINK she will be 31 this year

ugh. the bangs. I'd love to see a different style on her

Yeah she needs a new weave. That one wasn't doing her any favors.

11 hours ago, scorpio1031 said:

I think it was because Paige was told once and she lost the weight.  Hannah had a problem thru out her rookie year, and when they mentioned it to her during TC in her second year, she seemed to not understand what the problem was.

I also think Paige was going through her divorce at the time and there was a bit more sympathy for her. Plus, as you said, she corrected it quickly.

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3 hours ago, ByTor said:

Didn't Selina do 2 years?

Selina was on the team for two years.

I wonder if Kelli regrets having sympathy for Paige going through her divorce during her second year and letting her stay with the team after she ended up dating a Cowboys player while she was still a DCC. They cut other girls for weight and look what happen with Jenna and Holly for breaking the do not have anything with a Cowboys player rule while you are on the squad. What was so special about Paige that she was able to stay on the team after gaining weight and dating a player. I do not think it is fair to the other girls who were cut for weight because poor Paige is going through a divorce, and she got away with breaking a rule later on.

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1 hour ago, LadyMsJay said:

How and where is she fat? I'm so confused.

giphy.gif

I don't see it either.

Edited by ByTor
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1 hour ago, bigskygirl said:

Selina was on the team for two years.

I wonder if Kelli regrets having sympathy for Paige going through her divorce during her second year and letting her stay with the team after she ended up dating a Cowboys player while she was still a DCC. They cut other girls for weight and look what happen with Jenna and Holly for breaking the do not have anything with a Cowboys player rule while you are on the squad. What was so special about Paige that she was able to stay on the team after gaining weight and dating a player. I do not think it is fair to the other girls who were cut for weight because poor Paige is going through a divorce, and she got away with breaking a rule later on.

If they had known about it while she was cheering, guarantee she would have been sent packing

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41 minutes ago, ByTor said:

giphy.gif

I don't see it either.

I wish I was fat like her!! 

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On 5/12/2018 at 11:06 AM, LegallyReasonable said:

This is a product of racism unfortunately. The team has a “look” to maintain to appease their fans. 

the team has a "look" to maintain because the goal is to make sure that every fan has a woman on the team that they relate to or find attractive or enjoy watching dance. Years ago I heard a pro dance director refer to it as "a girl for every fan". That's not racism, that's a successful marketing tool.

NFL cheerleaders are a marketing tool - that is the sole purpose. Like it, don't like it, it's a fact. So when a director is looking at the makeup of a team, she is trying to weigh who is the best dancer vs who is the best ambassador vs who is the best leader vs who will actually fit in that tiny uniform vs who is mature enough to handle the role and follow the rules vs who has the work ethic and dedication required. So all of that plus how many redheads/brunettes/blondes/poc are already on the team is all part of the decision. Then you have to consider who shows up to tryouts - on the team in my city there are usually only a handful of poc who show up to tryouts that have the dance ability required. Last year they took a woman who struggled to keep up dancewise, another who struggled all year to fit into the uniform (and was pulled from the field several times) and one who had a nasty attitude and rolled her eyes at the director all the time. Would they have made it if they were not POC? Doubtful. Even still, comments get made all the time about how few poc are on the team and some believe the team should be 100% people of color because the arena is in an urban setting.

Bottom line - you try to keep the general makeup of the team to mirror the makeup of your fanbase but also, you can't put people on the team who don't show up to tryouts. Again, because it's a marketing tool, not a platform for racism. Many of you think you know the ins and outs of Christina's position on the team but none of us do. She may struggle with flexibility but maybe she kills it in every other possible area. Maybe she's #1 on the team in everything else. That matters. 

Sorry but the idea that people are being accused of racism by others who have never once been the director of a pro team (some have never even been a dancer) and have never even MET the people They are accusing, let alone know them well enough to understand their thought process, infuriates me.

Edited by fan1999
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15 hours ago, ByTor said:

I recall when Breelan was auditioning for her 2nd year they did a close-up of her stomach jiggling when she danced.

Kali from an earlier season came back soft and thicker than her rookie season. Her routine was weak and she wore a long loose button down shirt over shorts that the judges called her out for in deliberations (Jay specifically I believe) She was cut. 

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45 minutes ago, fan1999 said:

Last year they took a woman who struggled to keep up dancewise, another who struggled all year to fit into the uniform (and was pulled from the field several times) and one who had a nasty attitude and rolled her eyes at the director all the time. Would they have made it if they were not POC? Doubtful. 

Who are these people?

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32 minutes ago, fan1999 said:

the team has a "look" to maintain because the goal is to make sure that every fan has a woman on the team that they relate to or find attractive or enjoy watching dance. Years ago I heard a pro dance director refer to it as "a girl for every fan". That's not racism, that's a successful marketing tool.

NFL cheerleaders are a marketing tool - that is the sole purpose. Like it, don't like it, it's a fact. So when a director is looking at the makeup of a team, she is trying to weigh who is the best dancer vs who is the best ambassador vs who is the best leader vs who will actually fit in that tiny uniform vs who is mature enough to handle the role and follow the rules vs who has the work ethic and dedication required. So all of that plus how many redheads/brunettes/blondes/poc are already on the team is all part of the decision. Then you have to consider who shows up to tryouts - where I'm from there are usually only a handful of poc who show up to tryouts that have the dance ability required. Last year they took a woman who struggled to keep up dancewise, another who struggled all year to fit into the uniform (and was pulled from the field several times) and one who had a nasty attitude and rolled her eyes at the director all the time. Would they have made it if they were not POC? Doubtful. Even still, comments get made all the time about how few poc are on the team and some believe the team should be 100% people of color because the arena is in an urban setting.

Bottom line - you try to keep the general makeup of the team to mirror the makeup of your fanbase but also, you can't put people on the team who don't show up to tryouts. Again, because it's a marketing tool, not a platform for racism. Many of you think you know the ins and outs of Christina's position on the team but none of us do. She may struggle with flexibility but maybe she kills it in every other possible area. Maybe she's #1 on the team in everything else. That matters. 

Sorry but the idea that people are being accused of racism by others who have never once been the director of a pro team (some have never even been a dancer) and have never even MET the people They are accusing, let alone know them well enough to understand their thought process, infuriates me.

So. Saying that a practice is the product of racism is not calling individuals or the organization itself racist. I don’t think that anyone involved is racist based on what I’ve seen. I don’t think the Cowboys organization is racist. Race is taken into account in  the same way as hair color, height, and body type. They are operating in a world where race is unfortunately a factor. 

However, quotas or targets for women of color is a PRODUCT of racism because they would not be necessary if racism wasn’t a factor. An unrelated example is affirmative action which also would not exist without racism/sexism/ableism...etc. You’re right. It is what it is. All things considered, it’s completely reasonable for the DCC to have fewer women of color as a whole based on their fan base and the look they want ??‍♀️. 

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16 minutes ago, DancingNurse said:

Who are these people?

I stated in the sentence that they are part of the team from where I'm from. I edited to say the team from my city so it's more clear. I was giving an example of the vast difference between what the fans think they know and what actually is taking place. 

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1 hour ago, Kayce said:

Kali from an earlier season came back soft and thicker than her rookie season. Her routine was weak and she wore a long loose button down shirt over shorts that the judges called her out for in deliberations (Jay specifically I believe) She was cut. 

I forgot about her.  That, plus (if I remember correctly) no improvement on her kicks got her off the squad.

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14 minutes ago, fan1999 said:

I stated in the sentence that they are part of the team from where I'm from. I edited to say the team from my city so it's more clear. I was giving an example of the vast difference between what the fans think they know and what actually is taking place. 

Isn’t suggesting that the director only took the 3 POC in your example because they are POC the exact same thing that you apparently are taking issue with in other people’s posts? I don’t know what team you’re referring to but I would assume that there have been white girls who made the team who were not in great shape, had poor attitudes, or weren’t the best at learning not retaining choreography. I’m further assuming that the implication for why those girls made it not that they’re white, but please correct me if I’m wrong. It should also be noted that in DCC world, the majority of strugglers who have made it, at least since the show started, have not been POC.

At the end of the day though, it seems like most people (everyone?) agrees that yes, looks, including race is a factor in who makes the team. Whether there is a negative connotation put on the decision makers seems to be what is at issue....

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T

10 minutes ago, LegallyReasonable said:

So. Saying that a practice is the product of racism is not calling individuals or the organization itself racist. I don’t think that anyone involved is racist based on what I’ve seen. I don’t think the Cowboys organization is racist. Race is taken into account in  the same way as hair color, height, and body type. They are operating in a world where race is unfortunately a factor. 

However, quotas or targets for women of color is a PRODUCT of racism because they would not be necessary if racism wasn’t a factor. An unrelated example is affirmative action which also would not exist without racism/sexism/ableism...etc. You’re right. It is what it is. All things considered, it’s completely reasonable for the DCC to have fewer women of color as a whole based on their fan base and the look they want ??‍♀️. 

That's kind of splitting hairs - the process is a product of racism but the organization and actual people who developed it, put it in place and execute it aren't being called racist? They are two sides of the same coin, imo, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. 

I also didn't say (or mean to imply) that they had a quota or target -other than the natural one imposed by trying to hit all areas of the fanbase while still staying in their budget - it's much more abstract than that and again, doesn't have anything to do with the existence of racism. for all any of us know, they put every poc who showed up and met their criteria into training camp.  Either way, they are not targeting, discriminating or limiting anyone because they believe poc are inferior to caucasian women and their decisions aren't in an effort to placate anyone who does think that.  They put every single woman on that team for the same reason - because they hope a portion of the fanbase will relate to her. It's the same reason whether the candidate is white or she's black or she's Japanese or Irish or blonde or rail thin or bigger boned or short or tall.

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5 hours ago, Opine said:

That girl could sit right next to me and I wouldn't know it was Breelan!

Amen!  I wish for her that she had taken the hint and not tried out.  I hate it when the cut vets have to leave something that they were so proud of on a negative note!

I agree. But Selina was warned on national television. In a way, maybe Selina was subconsciously done with DCC?

Just now, Cheerocracy said:

I agree. But Selina was warned on national television. In a way, maybe Selina was subconsciously done with DCC?

oops. i just read "not tried out". yes yes i agree.

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3 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

Isn’t suggesting that the director only took the 3 POC in your example because they are POC the exact same thing that you apparently are taking issue with in other people’s posts? I don’t know what team you’re referring to but I would assume that there have been white girls who made the team who were not in great shape, had poor attitudes, or weren’t the best at learning not retaining choreography. I’m further assuming that the implication for why those girls made it not that they’re white, but please correct me if I’m wrong. It should also be noted that in DCC world, the majority of strugglers who have made it, at least since the show started, have not been POC.

At the end of the day though, it seems like most people (everyone?) agrees that yes, looks, including race is a factor in who makes the team. Whether there is a negative connotation put on the decision makers seems to be what is at issue....

No, not to the extent (or anywhere close to it) that these women did. If 150 poc had shown up to tryouts the way 150 Caucasian women did, I don't believe the women I mentioned would have made it to training camp. I really feel like you are twisting the point that I was making, which is that these decisions are made for marketing reasons and the public/fans think they understand the process but they usually don't. I don't disagree with the decision to include those 3 women. It's important from every aspect - but you can't blame the organization or the director for who shows up at auditions. 

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30 minutes ago, fan1999 said:

No, not to the extent (or anywhere close to it) that these women did. If 150 poc had shown up to tryouts the way 150 Caucasian women did, I don't believe the women I mentioned would have made it to training camp. I really feel like you are twisting the point that I was making, which is that these decisions are made for marketing reasons and the public/fans think they understand the process but they usually don't. I don't disagree with the decision to include those 3 women. It's important from every aspect - but you can't blame the organization or the director for who shows up at auditions. 

I’m not trying to twist anything. I’m just trying to figure out how suggesting that people shouldn’t accuse K&J of taking race into account (which seems to be all anyone did based on what I saw) meshes with simultaneously stating that the 3 POC in your city only made it because they were POC. Taking into account race is taking into account race. Whether you wrap it into marketing or looks or whatever, it is what it is. People aren’t colorblind. For the record, i don’t think that “not being colorblind” equals racist. It’s just not pretending like you don’t see what you see. 

Edited by Jess14
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Just now, Jess14 said:

I’m not trying to twist anything. I’m just trying to figure out how suggesting that people shouldn’t accuse K&J of taking race into account (which seems to be all anyone did) meshes with simultaneously statinh that the 3 POC in your city only made it because they were POC. Taking into account race is taking into account race. Whether you wrap it into marketing or looks or whatever, it is what it is. People aren’t colorblind. 

Racism isn't about being colorblind or not. It's about discriminating against someone because you think you are superior to them just because of your race. Someone suggested K&J broke the law by keeping Christina and cutting 2 vets who are poc. Other people were suggesting that qualified vets were cut because they were poc and even offered up Christina not being cut as proof of that. I believe someone even stated that Caucasian women are given more leeway than poc on the team when it comes to meeting standards. There have also been comments made about how few poc made it to tc this year. My original comment was addressing those comments and wasn't to imply that the poc on my city's team shouldn't have made it -  it was to showcase that there are a hundred factors that go into the process and to target just one of those factors as "the reason" is unfair to the people making the decision. I used the poc on my city's team as an example specifically because it was the direct opposite of what people are claiming happened with dcc to showcase that the process can help or hurt anyone's chances to make a team and isn't tied to racism. They each struggled far more than any other woman on the team in the area I mentioned (just as Christina seems to struggle with flexibility) but they each had another factor that was far more important to the team than the one they struggled with and that was the fact that a section of the fanbase could relate to her. If there had been a greater number of oriental or AA or Hawaiian or middle eastern women who showed up at tryouts, the women who did make the team very well could have been passed over - or not. No one knows because there are 100's of factors and the prioritization of those factors changes from candidate to candidate. I don't know what Christina's X factor is - but for someone to suggest that K&J are breaking the law by keeping her over the other two vets is baseless.

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9 minutes ago, fan1999 said:

I don't know what Christina's X factor is - but for someone to suggest that K&J are breaking the law by keeping her over the other two vets is baseless.

This I agree with. I do employment law, and the odds of a discrimination claim succeeding in this case is close to zero. However, i just don’t see the big deal about the rest. We argue about looks, weight, hair, connections all being relevant in who makes the team. It’s regularly stated on here that different girls are held to different based on a variety of reasons. I don’t see why we need to clutch our pearls if race is stated is stated as one of those reasons. I think if only a few woc showed up, K&J might take them if it meant not having any woc on the team otherwise. Likewise, if over half of the team could be composed of woc based on talent, I still don’t think the team would be made up of half woc. I don’t think either scenario makes them racist by any means, but I think it shows that they take into account race, like they do everything else. 

Ill move on though because I think we’re talking past each other.

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On 5/12/2018 at 12:19 PM, Stagecoach said:

I could never tell Rachel, Molly, and Miranda apart last season.

Don't feel bad, it looks like the show couldn't tell them apart either lol lol

(far left says Miranda, but it is indeed Molly)

image.thumb.png.c15ef7311670cbd3f03379146a43c74c.png

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3 minutes ago, evasworld123 said:

Don't feel bad, it looks like the show couldn't tell them apart either lol lol

(far left says Miranda, but it is indeed Molly)

image.thumb.png.c15ef7311670cbd3f03379146a43c74c.png

That's funny.  Kind of like the one year when they tried to make it look like Amy was the last one called but Whitney was sitting right behind her. Then they showed them all standing and guess what, There was Whitney.

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1 minute ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

Miranda's the one with the wonky boob job, but you can only tell in certain pictures

True, Lol. Molly has definitely not had a boob job.

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19 hours ago, EricaShadows said:

I agree with you, @ByTor

The majority of us look at the "early" years (early in terms of the show) and see how amazing and memorable those dancers are/were while, in recent years, the girls are seen as boring, blah or blenders.  We don't see the personalities, the talent or the diversity of those early squads nowadays.  Part of that is the jumbotron or whatever it's called.  Yes, it brings the field up to those in the top bleachers who have to use field glasses/binoculars just to see that there are people on the field, but it also puts pressure on the girls to be stick-skinny.  

I don't disagree with this but I also think the show plays an unfortunate roll in the decrease in talent as well. As I said in an unrelated post, you can't put women on the team who don't show up and not nearly as many girls show up as they used to. A few years ago I thought it was just a result of women with no chance weeding themself out so they didn't get poked fun of on the show but for the last 4 years I've personally known someone (or plural) at tryouts and from what they have communicated, I think it's just an across the board decline. 

Look at HTC - they have a massive turnout every year and just about every team in the NFL has a larger turnout than DCC now. The one thing they all have in common is that none of them broadcast a reality show covering the tryout process. I think MOST of the women who tryout do so because it's a long time dream that happens to be a reality show, not the other way around. I think the reality show and accompanying message board and social media hoopla is a major downside for a lot of dancers. Year after year girls and women become more aware of the publicity and criticism heaped on women who just audition and less and less of them want to be subjected to that. If you just want to dance and aren't looking to catapult off your dcc status into something "bigger", the process of auditioning probably holds little appeal. And even if you brave the process and make the team, you are on a much bigger national stage as an individual now than in the past.

There will always be the girls who do it anyway and I don't think the turnout will dip anymore than it has but I just don't think you'll see girls like Kelli Q anymore - girls who tryout 5, 6 + years - because it's way too public. Look at Cristi. She's been talking dcc since she was a kid and she molded her whole life till now around trying out. I have no doubt whatsoever that if the process was more private she would keep going or that if the process and been as "public" then (public and private aren't really the right words but that's the best I have right now) as it is now, Kelli Q probably would have quit trying long ago. For sure, most of the girls bring the attention on themselves but I think many of the girls who tryout now don't see it coming or don't think it will happen to them. 

i could be totally off but it's something I've been thinking on and off for the last couple weeks after I had a conversation with a couple of girls who had previously wanted to tryout for DCC in the next few years. They all dance on pro teams now and dcc was their next step. They were all in agreement that they are moving away from the idea of doing it now and when I asked why they said that they loved dancing on a pro team and the occasional incident of being recognized off the field or the little perks here and there with their employer or local businesses is fun but to have their whole life under a microscope - even after they are done dancing - is not something they want. They just don't want to trade their calm and still pretty private personal lives for that spotlight just to do the same job. 

Edited by fan1999 · Reason: Grammer
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I definitely think some girls try out just to be on the show to get their 15 minutes of fame. There are always a couple of girls that like to hog the camera and be the center of attention.

Lol if the number of girls who tried out are scarce, it wouldn't suprise me if CMT were to hire a few girls to fill in the numbers.

Edited by Cody701
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