S16.E15: Duncan Hunter, Ethan Hawke, Robert Reich, and Michael Render

[formerlyfreedom]

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Rep. Duncan Hunter, Ethan Hawke, Robert Reich, and Michael Render

[GHScorpiosRule]

That’s an hour I won’t get back. Hunter was just another delusional fool. And Killer Mike just monopolized the entire show.

I wanted to hear more from Reich.

Enough with how Awful Hillary was and that Bernie was robbed. Shut up, Mike.

New Rules was better this week.

[GoldenGirl90]

Duncan Hunter? Yuck. 

DH: We don’t want immigrants bringing their problems here.

Most Normal People: THE FUCK?!

Edited May 12, 2018 by Alexis2291

[Mystery Author]

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And Killer Mike just monopolized the entire show.

I felt like I was trapped inside a Trump rally. The audience applauded his every word (well, maybe not when he said he didn't vote for Hillary)!

And he PREACHED. Then along came Ethan Hawke and HE preached.

Guess I don't have to go to church for a while.

Yes, New Rules was better.

[navelgazer]

Yet another sausage fest, but only five.  I guess Bill couldn't find a woman to fill the one slot he always saves for one. 

I was a little proud of Bill.  During the Duncan Hunter interview at the top of the show, Hunter tried to go to the Clinton Foundation as an example of something that should've been better investigated and Bill came right back at him and said you crossed the line and that's total bullshit.  I applauded. 

Overtime was all Duncan Hunter, though.  I wish he hadn't stuck around. 

[CaliCheeseSucks]

I can't even make it past the Duncan Hunter interview. Ten seconds of him b.s.-ing with regard to mocking McCain, I want to break something.

[Robert Lynch]

Duncan was horrible. Supporting a man like Trump who was a draft dodger, thinking that Trump was somehow manipulated badly because of the Russia investigation, supporting Trump pulling out of the Iran nuclear deal, bringing up Obama or Hillary to the mix, among other things. Another Republican who thinks their shit don't stink. Well, Duncan, it does.

Killer Mike was too much for me. He was all defensive against Reich's take on what to do about gun control and he brought up a prison inmate still at prison to back his flimsy claim. What was that about?

[Caseysgirl]

I wish Robert Reich was able to speak more. Killer Mike doesn't allow anyone else to talk and his physical presence is so intimidating. He appeared at times to be overpowering Reich when he talked.

[Tiggertoo]

Terrible show.

Duncan Hunter made me want to throw something at my TV.  Sure, it’s one thing for tough marine/army guys to sit around and rib each other.  I’m sure dark humour helps.  But the crap flying at John McCsin is a totally different matter.  When he wouldn’t even concede on that, I gave up thinking he would say anything worthwhile.  I appreciate hearing from the other side, but please make it informed and intelligent.

I’ve never heard of Killer Mike but I didn’t enjoy him and yeah, way too much from him,  He couldn’t even be bothered to vote?  You lost me right there, buddy.  More Reich please.  It was a funny visual having them side by side like that.

[lovinbob]

3 hours ago, Caseysgirl said:

I wish Robert Reich was able to speak more. Killer Mike doesn't allow anyone else to talk and his physical presence is so intimidating. He appeared at times to be overpowering Reich when he talked.

I always love to hear from Reich, so I agree on that, but I didn't find Michael Render's physical presence to be intimidating. Unfortunately they must have given him a special chair to accommodate his size that made him far taller than Reich, which was a mistake on the producer's part. But the conversation was incredibly respectful and calm, not intimidating at all.

As far as his message goes, Render brought up some points that I hadn't previously considered, regarding gun control--about the African American community being affected first and worst. Doesn't change my opinions about the need for better gun safety measures, but it was context I hadn't considered. I wish Reich had had a clearer message about assault weapons.

And of course I completely disagree with Render about Hillary, and it was annoying to me that Bill seemed so overly deferential.

Ethan Hawke was kind of a character. It was as if no one had ever given him a chance to talk until this interview!

I forgot to mention New Rules, which was the reason I came on here to post. I loved what Bill had to say about Trump being a mobster. Spot on. I have been having that same, dawning revelation. Growing up in New York, I always hated Trump and thought he was tacky and classless, but I never new how two-bit his operation was. I hope Trump gets wind of Bill's comments and gets super-pissed.

Edited May 12, 2018 by lovinbob

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, navelgazer said:

I was a little proud of Bill.  During the Duncan Hunter interview at the top of the show, Hunter tried to go to the Clinton Foundation as an example of something that should've been better investigated and Bill came right back at him and said you crossed the line and that's total bullshit.  I applauded.

Yes this was a guest whom you need to cut off and call bullshit and the confrontational approach was was appropriate unlike last week. I actually thought it was pretty good until he fell back into the old "you're so brave for showing up" at the end. And then followed up during Overtime by being so impressed that he says whatever he wants without being embarrassed. It's not courage to lie and sling slurs without regret - it's psychopathology. The same thing he criticizes so much from Trump. And the same thing that lets him deny global warming or racism and everything that Bill was so upset about. You can politely thank someone for appearing without stretching the definition of bravery beyond all reason.

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, Tiggertoo said:

Terrible show.

Duncan Hunter made me want to throw something at my TV.  Sure, it’s one thing for tough marine/army guys to sit around and rib each other.  I’m sure dark humour helps.  But the crap flying at John McCsin is a totally different matter.  When he wouldn’t even concede on that, I gave up thinking he would say anything worthwhile.  I appreciate hearing from the other side, but please make it informed and intelligent.

I’ve never heard of Killer Mike but I didn’t enjoy him and yeah, way too much from him,  He couldn’t even be bothered to vote?  You lost me right there, buddy.  More Reich please.  It was a funny visual having them side by side like that.

God yes. I wished Bill had asked if it bothered him that his own party would happily call him a coward and lie about his service record if he dared to stop defending Trump. Trump wasn't joking when he said McCain wasn't a hero and yes, the guy on Fox News claiming that McCain broke under torture and betrayed everyone is there because the right is fine with that. They don't actually respect peoples' behavior in combat at all.

I don't doubt his willingness to put himself in danger, shoot people or torture people in what he sees as a defense of his country, but then he comes home and happily sells the whole thing out to two-bit con men and mobsters.

[IvySpice]

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Hunter tried to go to the Clinton Foundation as an example of something that should've been better investigated and Bill came right back at him and said you crossed the line and that's total bullshit.  I applauded. 

I screamed at the TV, "Damn right!" Bill was all: "You're breaking the deal!" He sure was. Did someone have a timer going to see how long a Trump apologist can talk about THE CURRENT PRESIDENT'S CRIMES without bringing up any unemployed grandmas in Chappaqua? Did he make it 3 minutes?

But it all makes sense. Trump's people think it's OK to welch on a signed deal, whether they're dealing with Iran or Bill Maher. Bill Maher ought to know better than to trust these people to keep their word. Bill may learn that they can't be trusted, and unfortunately, the other countries are learning that about us, too.

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Unfortunately they must have given him a special chair to accommodate his size that made him far taller than Reich

Robert Reich is 4'11", one inch taller than the medical definition of a little person. He'd look pretty small next to Bill, too.

[babs1226]

I really mostly enjoyed this episode except for maybe the asshat at the beginning.  I like Robert Reich and Michael Render.  I liked hearing Michael's perspective, as a black man, about what's going on in our country.  I did not hear him say he didn't vote, only that he didn't vote for Hillary.  He was a leading surrogate for Bernie during the campaign, and based on his comments about his conversation with Bernie that morning, he's very involved in the political process.  I also enjoyed hearing from Ethan Hawke and his views on environmental issues.  I never go to the movies, but I will make it a point to see his new film.  If talking about things that should matter to all of us is preaching, then preach brothers.

[Gemma Violet]

10 minutes ago, IvySpice said:

Robert Reich is 4'11", one inch taller than the medical definition of a little person. He'd look pretty small next to Bill, too.

And he has a great sense of humor about it, too.  I remember him once speaking at some function and when the topic came up as to whether he was being considered for a certain position, he said, "I'm on the short list."  The crowd laughed.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

2 hours ago, IvySpice said:

Bill Maher ought to know better than to trust these people to keep their word. Bill may learn that they can't be trusted, and unfortunately, the other countries are learning that about us, too.

 

He should know by now that guests like Hunter are disingenuous liars who will do whatever they can to change the topic from Trump to whatever their Breitbart-provided talking points direct. There is literally no point to hosting people like Hunter except to give them yet another opportunity to spew b.s.

I skipped ahead to the panel and was annoyed that Killer Mike was allowed to hijack the segment like that. Did he have an interesting point of view, sure. But where was Bill (or Reich) pointing out the NRA's silence on the death of African-American gun owners at the hands of police, for instance? There have been some notable examples of the NRA failing to rally behind the rights of a gun owner, when that gun owner is a person of color. I'm hard pressed to believe Bill would let any other NRA shill get away with going on like that without any serious pushback for so long. 

Revisiting the Bernie well is just tiresome and I'm over the excuses from Killer Mike and others like him for refusing to vote for the only candidate with a chance to stop Trump from becoming president (especially when Bernie himself was emphatic that his supporters give her their votes). I wish at the end of "New Rules," when Bill said, "If you sold your soul to get protection from these two grandmas, the big pussy is you" - he had punctuated his point by turning and specifically staring at Killer Mike. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by CaliCheeseSucks

[iMonrey]

Lord, where do I start with that asshole Duncan Hunter? First of all, no sane person in the intelligence community believes you get reliable information with torture (or, "mean interrogation," or whatever you want to call it). People who say otherwise are just inhuman. You don't automatically deserve respect just because you served in the military. Some people sign up just because they want to go and shoot "towel heads." Hunter seems like that sort. He is utterly absent of humanity.

If the military was "chronically underfunded" during Obama's term, how is it we were still spending 10 times more on it than the next 15 countries put together? Aren't Republicans always saying we need to spend less when it comes to taxes? Maybe it's the same problem with the military - maybe we're spending that money on the wrong things, like tanks the Pentagon doesn't even want, instead of - Oh I don't know - benefits for veterans, etc.

What exactly do we gain by pulling out of the Iran deal? Hunter conceded it put Iran ten years away from building a bomb so isn't ten years better than no years? This guy is saber-rattling exactly the same way Cheney and Rumsfeld were before Iraq. He thinks Iranians are going to greet us as liberators.

If Trump "didn't know what was going on" with all these criminals he hired, doesn't that mean he's ridiculously incompetent? I mean, either he's a criminal or he's stupid, so which one of those things do you want him to be?

Once he brought up Clinton it was game over. I can't believe anyone is desperate enough to still try using that smoke screen.

As for "Killer Mike" - ugh. He's the same victim to paranoia as any other gun nut. He thinks he needs his guns because the government is going to take away his guns. And when they come for his guns, he's going to hold them off, with his guns. Yeah, let me know how that works out for you buddy. I'm so sick of people who think the government is going to take their guns. That's called paranoid delusion. The only way we will ever decelerate the proliferation of guns in this country is with some kind of voluntary buy back program like they had in Australia.

And sorry, Mike, I know you want to be part of the solution but you're actually part of the problem if you refused to vote for Clinton. These people actually still think, after two  years of Trump, that we wouldn't have been any better off with Clinton. They seem to be confusing the presidency with a monarchy. Do you want justice for the African American community? Then you want a Democrat in the White House appointing justices. Not Trump. As the Wizard of Oz would say, you seem to be a victim of disorganized thinking.

Warning! Don't even bother with Overtime, it's just more Hunter bullshit. 

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It's not courage to lie and sling slurs without regret - it's psychopathology. 

Exactly. Bill pointed to Hunter and said "that's why they win elections, because they're not pussies." WTF? They're liars and they're assholes. Is that what you think Democrats need to be, to win?

[attica]

My head exploded when Bill harrumphed that Schneiderman got "me too'd". As if being held to account for strangling women is just another tantrum by the pc police. Yeah, he followed it up with the bipartisanship of misogyny, but that line seemed to me a throwaway, a sop. 

I take Mike's point about the extra pressure  put on the black community by police, but a pre-purchase  background check is as neutral as can be. We could start with that. We could spend more time, attention,  and resources to reform policing. We do something. 

I once was at a party attended by Reich, and had a lovely conversation with him. He is charming and funny. And because it feels like I should mention  it, he did not sexually harass me, even after a few cocktails. A low bar, to be sure, but here we are. 

[atlantaloves]

Well, I, for one, loved Bill's end of the show rant about The Mob and Drumpt. It was epic. 

[Victor the Crab]

Eat shit and go fuck yourself, Killer Mike! You're a big part of the reason why Drumpf is in the White House, because you think your precious idol Bernie didn't get the Democratic nomination you thought he deserved because Hillary and the mean Democrats stole it from him, even though Hillary got more than three million more votes than the old coot. So you didn't go vote for her. Karma needs to crack your skull open.

Anyone else think Bill nailed it with his Vito Corleone impression?

[b2H]

3 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

Anyone else think Bill nailed it with his Vito Corleone impression?

That was absolutely classic.

[lovinbob]

6 hours ago, Victor the Crab said:

Anyone else think Bill nailed it with his Vito Corleone impression?

One of the best I have seen. I didn't know Bill had it in him. 

[Maherjunkie]

Killer Mike's point was...black people need to have guns in case they have to confront the govt because it's worked out so well?...

[ganesh]

21 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Enough with how Awful Hillary was and that Bernie was robbed. Shut up, Mike.

And there's your perfect being the enemy of good. Not only was Clinton going to be good, she was actually qualified. No, they're weren't more than two choices, Mike. 

I don't get why the kids can't walk out of school to protest school shootings just because you own guns. He lost me with his logic.

16 hours ago, Robert Lynch said:

Duncan was horrible.

I thought Bill was good with staying on his theme - how does a veteran support Trump. And I don't think Hunter was actually lying, which means he's delusional. We was inaccurate about the Iran deal, and you just can't compare Iran with DPRK. You literally can't put low enriched uranium on a missile and call it a nuclear bomb. That's why Obama assembled a diplomatic team with a NUCLEAR PHYSICIST on it. I don't think people get the "ten years away from the bomb" either. Next year it would still be ten years away. It's moving goalposts. And there's clauses in the deal that don't sunset. 

I cannot imagine that he saw illegal immigrants being registered to vote. Why didn't you stop them or report the incident. 

14 hours ago, Tiggertoo said:

I appreciate hearing from the other side, but please make it informed and intelligent.

That's the problem. Everyone says "oh listen to one another." Well, there's one side that can't accept basic facts. What am I supposed to do with that. 

13 hours ago, lovinbob said:

I wish Reich had had a clearer message about assault weapons.

Me too. Because when Mike asked why he can't have access to the same weapons that the cops do, the correct answer is, then they shouldn't have them either. Mike also didn't really refute how the assault weapons law had mass shootings go down really either. 

13 hours ago, lovinbob said:

I loved what Bill had to say about Trump being a mobster.

He's a bad mobster maybe, but he's no real mafioso. He's the thug that works for one of the low level made men and thinks he's hot shit. The mafia has a code of silence. 

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

You don't automatically deserve respect just because you served in the military. Some people sign up just because they want to go and shoot "towel heads." Hunter seems like that sort. He is utterly absent of humanity.

Or, I had a friend who joined for the healthcare. Hey, good for you, but yeah, I'm not a "thank you for your service" guy. 

10 hours ago, iMonrey said:

As for "Killer Mike" - ugh. He's the same victim to paranoia as any other gun nut. He thinks he needs his guns because the government is going to take away his guns. And when they come for his guns, he's going to hold them off, with his guns.

To be fair, I think he was saying more like, when the cops come to shoot be for just being black, I'm going to shoot back. 

[IvySpice]

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Anyone else think Bill nailed it with his Vito Corleone impression?

He didn't get any laughs -- I think the audience was silent with amazement. I didn't know he did impersonations. It was first class.

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I once was at a party attended by Reich, and had a lovely conversation with him. He is charming and funny. And because it feels like I should mention  it, he did not sexually harass me, even after a few cocktails. A low bar, to be sure, but here we are. 

I ate pizza with him and hung out on a dorm common room floor with 16 other undergrads in (gulp) fall 1998. He was super brilliant and clever and kind and seemed to really care about us learning from the experience. He's a great teacher.

[sistermagpie]

17 minutes ago, ganesh said:

To be fair, I think he was saying more like, when the cops come to shoot be for just being black, I'm going to shoot back. 

That's what it sounded like he was saying to me and that seemed bizarre. Was he just announcing that he had a gun to shoot police? How does he think that would work out? Or was he saying that the police don't protect him so he needs the gun to protect himself against murderers? (Like Bill apparently has a gun in case he's going to be killed by someone?) I don't think the NRA would have his back if the former was his position.

I also didn't get why he thought gun laws being racist meant that opposing gun control was going to help that. It doesn't mean that more laws=more inequality. It just means whatever laws there are are tilted in favor of some and against others. He mentioned Stand Your Ground as being enforced unequally and that was a law that gave people more freedom to shoot people. So why does he think less gun control keeps things more equal? If laws always affect his community first and worst, that applies to a lack of gun control too.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

That's what it sounded like he was saying to me and that seemed bizarre. Was he just announcing that he had a gun to shoot police? How does he think that would work out? Or was he saying that the police don't protect him so he needs the gun to protect himself against murderers?

I thought he was basically saying that he would shoot the cops. Bill tried to bail him out by saying 'well, sometimes in poor neighborhoods the cops aren't arriving quickly and you might need to protect yourself.' I'm fairly certain that Killer Mike probably lives in a nice place with a good security system, so have your gun, but I think you'll be ok. Maybe where he grew up it was like that, but that wasn't what he was saying. I can even buy his point about why can't I have the same guns the police have? Why can't we having a training program and different classes of licenses then? I have a license to drive my Subaru, but I can't just hop in a semi and haul on over to San Diego or wherever. He's clearly gaining prominence as a political voice, but pointing out what's wrong is only half of it. So, what do we do then? No gun laws? That's clearly not a solution because we have mass shootings every other week. 

I can take his point that the people making the laws aren't people who look like him or have his life experience, so the laws they are making might not protect people with his background or where he grew up. Back a diverse group of candidates then. Get more people like you where you grew up to vote. Tell them what you think it is important. Get those people in on the local level. 

It's unfortunate, but getting stuff done takes a long time and politics requires some hard choices. Getting more people to vote can really change things though. It's precisely the people that didn't vote who are getting overlooked. 

[scrb]

Hunter under investigation for campaign finance violations.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/09/duncan-hunter-republican-california-midterms-572911

His daddy is trying to save his seat but it's a district full of stupid people.

[ottoDbusdriver]

7 hours ago, scrb said:

Hunter under investigation for campaign finance violations.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/09/duncan-hunter-republican-california-midterms-572911

His daddy is trying to save his seat but it's a district full of stupid people.

Per that article, apparently some voters think that the father and the son (the current Congressman) are the same person, that kind of tells you something about the district.

[iMonrey]

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I don't get why the kids can't walk out of school to protest school shootings just because you own guns. He lost me with his logic.

Bill interviewed two of the Parkland shooting survivors just a few weeks ago, and they took great pains to point out they came from gun-owning families themselves. But Mike told his kid not to march in the protest because they own guns? One doesn't preclude the other. But then, Mike seems to be an "all or nothing" kind of guy, like how he refused to vote for Hillary. He thinks he's taking a stand or making a point, but he's actually just part of the problem.

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I cannot imagine that he saw illegal immigrants being registered to vote. Why didn't you stop them or report the incident. 

And if "they" (who's "they" - the Democratic party?) are signing up illegals to vote, in his district, presumably so they'll vote for Democrats, then how did he, a Republican, win the seat?

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I think the audience was silent with amazement. I didn't know he did impersonations. 

Bill actually does a fairly decent Trump too.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

But Mike told his kid not to march in the protest because they own guns?

That's what he said on the show, and then went on a huge monologue but really didn't connect the one with the other. He never really mentioned anything about school shootings. He (correctly) pointed out that African-Americans are getting the brunt of abuse. But I'm just not getting how his 'let's just arm everyone' is a workable solution.

I wish people would just be honest. You like guns. Maybe it's because of where you grew up. I honestly don't care. Owning guns is legal. You're priority is keeping them. Fine. Do you agree mass shootings are a problem? Ok. Let's all just agree on some fundamental basis and then we can fix what's wrong. 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

But then, Mike seems to be an "all or nothing" kind of guy, like how he refused to vote for Hillary.

So because you couldn't vote for an actually qualified candidate because your friend lost, millions of people are going to lose healthcare or access to much needed job training programs and scotus got one step closer to overturning Roe. And guess who is going to suffer the most from these policies. #WorstAndFirst Right? You just can't be that way in politics. Get over yourself, pal. 

Is Clinton perfect? No, and that's irrelevant. Is she likeable? I absolutely don't care. Is she qualified? Anyone who says no is delusional. She's a little too hawkish for my tastes, and I don't know if she'd be as pro-nuclear as I'd like, but there was no hesitation for me when I cast my vote for her. 

Bill's Trump is ok. I think Trevor Noah's is best because he plays it like a petulant child. 

I wish they actually pressed Hunter on his 'illegals' nonsense. How much did you win by? What exactly did you see?

Edited May 13, 2018 by ganesh

[magdalene]

Maher was spot on in the final section. Most enjoyable part of the show alongside the conversation with Ethan Hawke.  Duncan Hunter was unbearable and Killer Mike wasn't much better on the other end of the political spectrum.