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S03.E24: A Devil of My Word

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2 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

There were segments that I didn't like, like Maze making amends with Linda (it felt unearned somehow) or Maze having trouble fighting against two guys (sure, maybe it was the drugs in her system (come to think of it, can demons be drugged?).

I didn't have a problem w/ the Maze-Linda scene, since we at least saw Maze had concern for Linda when Cain threatened her. I do agree about the question of whether a demon can be drugged. On top of that, this was the next morning. How long do drugs stay in a demon's body? Still, once she beat the two guys, she also managed to beat up the rest of the room in order to get out of there and get to Linda. Which made me glad that Maze got her groove back at the end. 

I'm also bothered by Cain saying that he wouldn't end up hell because he didn't feel guilt over anything he'd done. If that's the rule, then think of all the vicious, evil people who don't end up in Hell because they don't have a conscience. Or they feel entitled to everything no matter who else gets hurt. 

However, I can definitely take this as a series finale. The last two episodes were good. 

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Cain stuck her with the stuff that was meant for Amenadiel and we don't know if he topped her up later, off screen.  They've never really explored her weaknesses, on the show, they've said she doesn't have a soul but they've never said what would kill her.  Sweet that she took out all those bad guys, though.

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12 minutes ago, CuddlerOfDragons said:

Cain stuck her with the stuff that was meant for Amenadiel and we don't know if he topped her up later, off screen.  They've never really explored her weaknesses, on the show, they've said she doesn't have a soul but they've never said what would kill her.  Sweet that she took out all those bad guys, though.

Yeah, I've wondered at that before. Especially since her wounds from fighting the mooks didn't seem to be healing right up, I'm inclined to go with 'she is susceptible to harm by mortal means, she just usually kicks humans' asses before they can land a blow'.

Edited by Emma9

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3 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Also, I agree that Chloe had finally accepted the truth in that roof and she knew he was the Devil before she saw his face.

I agree it was implied that she was at least starting to accept the truth. But just hours before she was giving Lucifer a speech about how she was enabling his celestial metaphors and persona and enough was enough, it had to stop. So if she hadn’t seen his face she probably would have talked herself out of believing and decided she was being silly. 

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I think that the immortals can be drugged justadd easily as the next person,  it probably just takes more.   Otherwise these people are wasting a ton of whiskey to drink as if it's just water.

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I think Trixie thought Maze was wearing a Halloween mask. Although kids understand more then we think.

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20 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

The reveal to Chloe was not what I imagined and a tad anticlimactic. I expected something more heroic and exuberant.. 

I think that it was doomed to be anticlimactic for the simple reason that this is at least the third time they've used this cliffhanger.  That they actually followed through this time didn't do anything other than make me realize that I no longer care what happens between Chloe and Lucifer.  And I did care the first couple times.  I remember being excited to see what happened with Chloe when Lucifer packed up his apartment and when he got kidnapped and dumped in the desert.  This time I basically reacted with realization that I was ok with the show being cancelled if they thought that ending would make me excited to tune in for another season.

It would have been much harder to take the cancellation if they had set up something intriguing about Lucifer's celestial family.

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12 hours ago, heisenberg said:

Twitter is going mad with:  #SaveLucifer  and  #PickUpLucifer.  With the amount of followers  I would not be surprised to see the show coming back.

Tweets have absolutely zero effect on renewal or cancellation -- no more than sending trash to a network does.  All the network cares about is revenue, and that means advertisers have to get their money's worth.

10 hours ago, Rushmoras said:

Pierce is showing emotions, so he must be guilty. Brilliant deduction, Chloe. You're a regular Thomas Barnaby (or Sherlock Holmes, whatever you prefer).

Actually, it was a good deduction, even if not "brilliant".  To use your example, if one saw Sherlock Holmes getting choked up over someone who is not Irene Adler, one would know that something is amiss.

7 hours ago, Loandbehold said:

I'm also bothered by Cain saying that he wouldn't end up hell because he didn't feel guilt over anything he'd done. If that's the rule, then think of all the vicious, evil people who don't end up in Hell because they don't have a conscience. Or they feel entitled to everything no matter who else gets hurt.

When Cane said "I don't regret a single thing", I wish Lucifer would have said something like "Good Dad, do you think you're the first sociopath we've had in Hell.  If someone doesn't have a conscience when they come in, we gift them one free of charge!  Enjoy!"

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8 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I think Trixie thought Maze was wearing a Halloween mask. Although kids understand more then we think.

Either could be the case. Trixie is young and imaginative enough that I could see her accepting Maze being a demon into her worldview without breaking stride. (Which could have been handled interestingly as she got older, especially because most of the adults around her would likely have been 'in' by then.)

 

3 hours ago, jhlipton said:

When Cane said "I don't regret a single thing", I wish Lucifer would have said something like "Good Dad, do you think you're the first sociopath we've had in Hell.  If someone doesn't have a conscience when they come in, we gift them one free of charge!  Enjoy!"

That's bugged me ever since they first introduced the mechanics of hell. People being tortured by specific/personalized scenarios is one thing, but I find it hard to believe that either A) there's no such thing as an evil person with no remorse in this universe or B) Lucifer would be happy to preside over a system wherein such people receive no punishment.

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2 hours ago, Emma9 said:

That's bugged me ever since they first introduced the mechanics of hell. People being tortured by specific/personalized scenarios is one thing, but I find it hard to believe that either A) there's no such thing as an evil person with no remorse in this universe or B) Lucifer would be happy to preside over a system wherein such people receive no punishment.

Despite probably being a million years old its obvious Lucifer doesn't know as much as he thinks he does and he's only learning a few crucial truths about himself and the world now.  Also, he has been in exile from his own kind for an awful long time. I get the impression his "holidays" to earth over the centuries were only of reasonably short duration before the start of the series.

We also haven't seen yet why he is called "light bringer". I guess the sword was only part of that. Perhaps this will play into the final story wrap up if they manage to get a season 4. The fans are very active in both twitter and facebook at the moment.

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6 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Tweets have absolutely zero effect on renewal or cancellation -- no more than sending trash to a network does.  All the network cares about is revenue, and that means advertisers have to get their money's worth.

They do seem to be paying more attention to social media - which can have a noticeable impact on ratings via word of mouth. (eg Stranger Things and True Detective), but old style networks like Fox only stick to the Neilson boxes and will continue to fade away. They won't go backwards on their cancellation of Lucifer no matter how much of a storm is raised in social media, and I get the impression nobody expects that to happen.

However, I have to say as a season finale series 3 had a truly excellent last two episodes, though it was a very rocky and uneven path to get there. This series seems to work much better with a shorter season, and I've grown to prefer more tightly written shorter seasons in TV shows.

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23 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I still have no clue why Chloe's so special, unless by special they mean the must boring woman in the universe. Maybe Lucifer's father is punishing him by creating such a dull woman for Lucifer to fall in love with.

I think that's a mystery to most people.  I had thought the "special" might have had some development this year but it had nothing to do with Caine's mark removal in the end. It just makes Lucifer weak and maybe stupid and fatally attracted.  Its terribly vague.  I have to say that Lauren German is the weakest of the cast members as far a characterisation is concerned. She really doesn't seem to hold a candle to Tom Ellis.  The only other actor that really has had his screen energy is Tricia Helfer though I know she rubs a lot of people the wrong way.

Having said that I did enjoy this season despite the noticeably bad episodes in the second half of the season. I found it interesting that the ones that Tom Ellis pointed out as being good were usually the pick of the crop. He seems to know a good script when he reads one and will do his best with the poor ones.

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22 hours ago, Ria said:

He’s the evil Sinnerman, then it’s dropped. 

For the first several episodes, I thought it was "Cinna-man".  Like it would end up being a deranged manager of a Cinnabon franchise.

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2 hours ago, terrymct said:

For the first several episodes, I thought it was "Cinna-man".  Like it would end up being a deranged manager of a Cinnabon franchise.

Better Call Saul...

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Man, it almost felt like an entire new writing team just took over for the final two episodes, because this was a surprisingly solid ending for the season.  Too bad we had to go through a bunch of poor ones to get to it.  And by then, the show has lost enough viewers that FOX decided to cancel it.  I guess the phase "Better late than never" doesn't apply to every situation!

I kept hearing that there was going to be some kind of big cliffhanger that would sour everything, but it honestly wasn't that upsetting.  While it would be interesting seeing the show go forward with Chloe finally in the know, her finding out isn't a bad way to end the show for good.  I thought it was going to end with someone important dying or something.

Glad Maze survived and made amends with Linda.  Now, she just needs to apologize to Trixie, dammit!

A good episode for Dan and Kevin Alejandro.

No Amenadiel was kind of a bummer, but I guess he's busy getting Charlotte settled up in heaven!

Happy Pierce is done for.  He truly is delusional if he thinks not feeling any regret means he did nothing wrong and is going to heaven.

I guess it won't be out of the realm of possibilities if someone else picks this show up, but if this is truly the end, it's too bad because while this season was a major misfire, I think it is still salvageable, especially with the set-up for next season.  But if it does come back, they really need to asses this season and learn not to make the same mistakes again.

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Yeah, the show never quite regained its footing after season 1 -- oh, there were moments but that feeling of effortless, stylish ease was hard to recapture.

Until now. *sigh* What a lovely finale.

Mazekeen, drugged and desperate, hacking thu a roomful of professional thugs to protect her first & best friend. Never even asking herself why. Because her best friend is in danger, that's why.

A demon who loves. How can such a being not have a soul?

And finally, we're thru with Cain. It wasn't a bad idea, as season story arcs go, but the execution was horrible, and the character was kinda repulsive. So I was glad to see it end, and end with such a bang.

Cain's sin wasn't just his brother's murder, it was a selfishness that knows no limits, just an eternal spiral of self-pitying rationalization tthat he used to justify any action, no matter how horrible; but Lucifer finally stops rationalizing, stops blaming everyone else for who he is; Lucifer finally accepts his own devil AND his own angel and saves the day. And Chloe finally sees his face, albeit his melted-crayola face, not his awesome flaming red-skull face from season one.

Ah, Chloe. I was in the minority who always liked Lauren German and thought she did the best she could with the ridiculous, utterly inconsistent crap they gave her to play. So I liked that moment of frozen realization as the last four years of her life snap into a completely new, bizarre focus:

It's all true.

Man, I would have loved to have seen more. Especially the next conversation between Chloe and Linda -- that would have been gold.

Goodbye, show. You promised much. You achieved it occasionally. You went out magnificently!

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12 hours ago, katmax said:

Despite probably being a million years old its obvious Lucifer doesn't know as much as he thinks he does and he's only learning a few crucial truths about himself and the world now. 

But that shouldn't matter.  God, the creator of Hell, would know that there are psychopaths and sociopaths and others like them from day 1 for whom a "your guilty conscience" would hold no threat at all.  That's why this version of Hell only works if those without a conscience are gifted one when they arrive.

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11 hours ago, jhlipton said:

But that shouldn't matter.  God, the creator of Hell, would know that there are psychopaths and sociopaths and others like them from day 1 for whom a "your guilty conscience" would hold no threat at all.  That's why this version of Hell only works if those without a conscience are gifted one when they arrive.

Sociopaths and other physical mental problems really short circuit this whole logic of people essentially making their own decisions about Heaven/Hell.  I don't think you'll ever get a full rule book for it out of any TV series, though Lucifer has been more consistent in sticking to what rules it creates than a lot of other fantasy series I've seen. (Grimm I'm looking at you) - All of these series require a large dose of not asking too many questions if you want to enjoy them when you watch them. In real life most of these cases would be sunk by forensics or the cops done for corruption before you got too far.

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3 hours ago, katmax said:

Sociopaths and other physical mental problems really short circuit this whole logic of people essentially making their own decisions about Heaven/Hell.  I don't think you'll ever get a full rule book for it out of any TV series

That's one of the problems with Biblical Hell.  If there are only two outcomes, Heaven and Hell, then all sins are equal -- swearing gets the same punishment asa genocide.  Once you accept that dichotomy, it's impossible to make a rule book that makes any sense.

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I agree with everyone who says this should have been a winter finale episode. I did love Lucifer crashing through the window all bloodstained wings and Wrath of Lord of Hell.

I’m finding that 22/23 episodes is too much for most of the shows I watch. More and more I’m leaning toward 10-13 episode seasons because in most cases I think it forces tighter storylines and far fewer filler episodes. I think this season suffered from that and it’s too bad because there was some potential there.

One thing I’m really going to miss is the music: I’ve lost count of the number of songs I now own because of this show. 

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Damn... That show started out so strongly and ended up petering out only in the third season :( I agree that the final episodes redeemed the season somewhat, but after how bad most of season 3 had been, the bar was pretty low.

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I always enjoyed this series so much and then reading today on the Supernatural board that it had been canceled (in reply to a comment I made), really disappointed me because after that season finale things could only get so much better than ever before.

 

I don't think The CW would be a good fit as shows there tend to be watered down as teen, corny and cheesy dramas so if we're left between the show being permanently canceled or shifting to CW.. leave it 'asleep,' then.

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On 5/17/2018 at 8:55 PM, sharifa70 said:

I agree with everyone who says this should have been a winter finale episode. I did love Lucifer crashing through the window all bloodstained wings and Wrath of Lord of Hell.

I’m finding that 22/23 episodes is too much for most of the shows I watch. More and more I’m leaning toward 10-13 episode seasons because in most cases I think it forces tighter storylines and far fewer filler episodes. I think this season suffered from that and it’s too bad because there was some potential there.

One thing I’m really going to miss is the music: I’ve lost count of the number of songs I now own because of this show. 

Agreed. 22-24 episodes per season really seems excessive these days as shows tend to be better off with 10-13 episodes instead. South Park too is now only just 10 eps which works for me.

 

The show Supernatural for example still follows that insane amount of chapters (not as bad as a daily soap opera program) but I eventually caught up with the most recent episode. Plus, I have a list of shows and which I've seen so I don't get myself lost with the whole thing.

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Is the worldview of Lucifer that of the Torah/Old Testament? 

At the very least we have Cain and Abel.  Does that mean Adam, Eve, the  Garden of Eden, Noah and the flood are all real in the Lucifer universe?  What about other events/characters described in Judeo-Christian bible? 

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Lucifer made some reference early on about being the burning bush Moses spoke with.

There are binary belief systems that draw the balance differently than "if you've sinned at all, you're out." The ancient Egyptian religion, for one.

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On 5/16/2018 at 5:27 PM, thuganomics85 said:

But if it does come back,

Why is it limited to coming back via a USA network or seller of video?

What if it were to come back in Australia, with Lucifer and Maze inserted into the time frame of the prisoner transport?  

What if it were to come back in Korea when the Japanese invaded and enslaved? 

And not with US producers and with a different show runner? 

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2 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Why is it limited to coming back via a USA network or seller of video?

What if it were to come back in Australia, with Lucifer and Maze inserted into the time frame of the prisoner transport?  

What if it were to come back in Korea when the Japanese invaded and enslaved? 

And not with US producers and with a different show runner? 

Well, it's a question of who currently owns the rights, and who wants to pay to buy them. Those ideas sound different enough that someone could avoid the exorbitant licensing fees and just create a new series. 

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I recently re-watched the whole run, and this turned out to be a much better show when I removed myself from the week-to-week watching, culminating in this episode. Other than the "what makes a demon loopy for 12+ hours" problem, I loved it. Lucifer has moments of complete self-realization; we get some peace for Charlotte; Dan is strong and purposeful; Chloe finally sees the truth; Maze shows up for Linda, who is perfect in the moment. I cannot wait to see what comes next on Netflix. 

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I re-watched the series (well, I admit to skipping some annoying Cain-Chloe stuff in season 3, but otherwise, yes, I re-watched the series, LOL) over the past few weeks, and tonight I re-watched this episode before viewing the season 4 premiere. 

I just wanted to pop in to say that Lucifer unfurling his wings and flying down the stairs to confront and battle Cain/Pierce (after he brings Chloe to safety) still looks REALLY COOL. Love it!

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That whole sequence from unfurling his wings to make the shield and then breaking through the window to slaughter everyone was killer. 

I was like, she *has* to find out now. Though she seemed very nonplussed. 

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The wing-shield was a very epic visual.  Great way to end the season proper (excluding the tack-on eps).

I sometimes hit a little bit of a logic bump that Chloe wore a bulletproof vest to the confrontation with Pierce, didn’t tell Lucifer that she did (because he seemed flat out panicked when she first got shot), and also didn’t insist that he wear one if she put one on, but that’s a minor point, because him cradling her as he weathered all those bullets was such a meaningful act of devotion.  I wish Chloe could have seen him in that moment, what he was willing to do for her.  I know they wanted to end on an ambiguous note with the reveal and so postponed it for her to see only the devil face, but I just would have liked to have seen how it would play out if she were conscious of his “good” side there.

I liked Smallville well enough back in the day, and I’ll always have a soft spot for Tom Welling because of it, but I thought his acting was very wooden in this final scene.  Each time I watch it, I find myself wondering what a better actor could do with it.

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