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ottoDbusdriver

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. in the Media

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Yes, it's the show's lead in that's killing it. ABC made the right call putting together it's Wednesday night "family sitcom" block, it's paid off well for everyone involved. I'm not sure what they're holding back for midseason when Selfie and Manhattan Love Story get cancelled. Though I don't watch it, I think the best pairing it has is Once Upon a Time, shows that capitalize on Disney IP.

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Guest Accused Dingo

Personally i think it never recovered from esrly season 1 drop off. If they want to get viewers to watch they need to do something drastic. Hell or even funny like a Commercial apologizing for a slow first season, "but check us out now....still no superheroes but at least better than season 1" or something like that.

Edited by Accused Dingo

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http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/10/29/agents-shield-brett-dalton-ward-escape-spoilers/

 

EW interview with Brett Dalton: Can Ward Ever Be Redeemed?

 

THE ANSWER SHOULD BE NO. A THOUSAND TIMES NO. But like I said in the episode thread, the hacky stupid nature of TV writing these days forces us to ask the question.

 

Ward told Skye the apparent truth about her father. He also said his brother is a master manipulator. Can Ward ever be trusted or is he just desperate to get out of that cell?

He has not told a single lie this entire season. I would like to think that there’s a reason for that. I’m not saying that he’s telling the entire truth, but he has not told a single lie. The real question is not even if he’s telling the truth or not, because that is happening, but why? I don’t know the answer 100%, but I had an idea where they are going. It’s fascinating because it’s such an interesting journey. It’s not your typical redemptive arc. It defies expectations.

The use of the words "redemptive arc" has me putting my hands over my ears and screaming LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.

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I'd love to see Ward undergo a redemptive arc, where he tries to start to atone for his crimes and leave his past behind and because of his feelings for Skye. He hands over a few HYDRA operations to SHIELD and it starts to look like maybe the team will accept him again, and then he's abruptly gunned down by Bobbi on orders from high because they are goddamned spies and only an idiot would let him come back into the fold.

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Any attempt to redeem Ward would just be further eroding any goodwill most people have for AoS (in my opinion). Most people, and generally kids, tend to want heroes to root for - not complicated murderers who blackmail their way back into the group because they have valuable intel. 

 

It makes me think of what George Lucas tried to do with young Darth Vader in the first Star Wars animated 'toon... When Disney got control of the franchise, someone finally had the sense to realize "Hey, this character is going to grow up to be a mass murderer and child killer (!).  Maybe we don't want to make him some kid's role model."  .. And they dropped Anakin Skywalker like a radioactive rock... (in my opinion)

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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Well this the true goal is to redeem him and get him back on the team (and in Skye's pants), then the writers are doing a terrible job. Each episode just digs the hole deeper, increases his crimes, and the other characters are only more resolute in their very reasonable decision never to trust him again. It really makes you wonder: on a show called Agents of SHIELD, is it going to turn out that the Agents are the real villains and the Hydra-murderer is the hero? I sincerely doubt it.

Edited by kitlee625
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Any attempt to redeem Ward would just be further eroding any goodwill most people have for AoS (in my opinion). Most people, and generally kids, tend to want heroes to root for - not complicated murderers who blackmail their way back into the group because they have valuable intel. 

The term is "bad boy woobie" and enormously popular characters like Spike, Chuck Bass and Damon Salvatore fit the trope. Well, Chuck (from Gossip Girl) never killed anybody, but he did try to rape a couple girls. And he sold his girlfriend for a hotel. But then he was redeemed because he got shot. Damon killed and raped girls and suddenly he was "redeemed" because...uh. Well, I'm not really sure how, and I don't watch Vampire Diaries anymore, but before I quit he had become 100 percent woobified AND had a romantic relationship with Elena (the lead female on TVD). That show got to be insane -- to the point where there was no difference between the villains and heroes and everyone became a killer. Who the heck do you root for?

 

So. I don't know what they have in mind for Ward here, but I can tell you this is why people are asking about a Ward redemption and worried about it. He just killed a guy (the guard) in the last episode and the first question is, CAN WARD BE REDEEMED?

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It's the actor playing Ward who's saying this, though, and I've noticed a strong tendency in interviews with actors to view their own characters from a very sympathetic standpoint -- comes of needing to get inside the character's head to play them, I guess, but often seems to lack perspective.

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Did we ever get an answer on whether Dalton knew Ward was going to turn in the initial episodes of the series? I'm asking because if he did, then he might be right about an redemptive arc - otherwise it's just wishful thinking, IMO. 

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Tbh I feel like that was a missed opportunity. I mean, Marvel is notorious on the secret keeping, and I get keeping it a secret from the other actors so it doesn't influence their performance, but you'd think that an actor could have added nice layers to the character if he/she had known from the beginning that the character was had a hidden agenda. Of course Brett Dalton has said in interviews that he would not have been able to play the role had he known from the beginning, so maybe it was the right call.

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And we have a new low: 1.5 and 4.27 mln viewers. I'm starting to think the show won't survive to the next season.

 

This show is time-shifted like crazy. The L3s (which networks do care about) that have leaked are good, and the L7s put it on par with the NCIS franchise in the demo.They'll probably also look at how it does once S1 hits Netflix later this month. It's an example of a show that has a more modern viewership that watches TV on its own terms. That's not going to change, and overnights only tell a part of a story with shows like this.

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The network doesn't really care about L3 or L7, though. Overnight is where the money is. They just write those rating to make the shows look better, but bottom-line is, a relatively expensive 9 pm drama with 1.5 simply won't survive on ABC (and the ratings will probably be even worse come spring).

Edited by FurryFury

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If ABC wasn't part of the Disney Media giant I'd be more inclined to worry about the overnights, but I've got to think Disney see's more value in the show than just how much ad revenue it's kicking out on TV. It's younger audience is more inclined to take it in through alternative formats and they know that. Having the engaged audience for the Movies, which is the real money maker for them, is the key.

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The network doesn't really care about L3 or L7, though. Overnight is where the money is. They just write those rating to make the shows look better, but bottom-line is, a relatively expensive 9 pm drama with 1.5 simply won't survive on ABC (and the ratings will probably be even worse come spring).

 

 

If ABC wasn't part of the Disney Media giant I'd be more inclined to worry about the overnights, but I've got to think Disney see's more value in the show than just how much ad revenue it's kicking out on TV. It's younger audience is more inclined to take it in through alternative formats and they know that. Having the engaged audience for the Movies, which is the real money maker for them, is the key.

 

Yeah, Traveller519 points to why the overnights aren't the only number that matters to a show like MAoS. In this case, since it's produced by the same network that airs it, ABC has a much larger stake in the future of the show (the same reason NBC's shown so much more love to Parks and Recreation than to Community). The overnights affect ad rates, but these days shows have much longer lifespans, and the studios/networks have to consider the whole picture. There's revenue from product placement within the show, iTunes/Amazon sales, streaming rights, syndication, and DVD/Blu-Ray sales. And that's why the L3s/L7s matter -- they may not have an effect on ad rates, but they point to how long a lifespan a show might have and future profits they make through these other avenues. Ad rates are now just once piece of a larger puzzle.

Edited by kennyab

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The network doesn't really care about L3 or L7, though. Overnight is where the money is. They just write those rating to make the shows look better, but bottom-line is, a relatively expensive 9 pm drama with 1.5 simply won't survive on ABC (and the ratings will probably be even worse come spring).

They do care about those DVR numbers a bit, otherwise they wouldn't pay for them. They also care about online viewing nowadays. You see more product placement during shows because networks know people are DVRing shows and fast-forwarding through commercials. Or watching online, where the effect of commercials is probably next to nothing.

 

Note that ABC did not hesitate to cancel Selfie -- which was produced by Warner Bros. SHIELD produced by ABC so ABC will be more forgiving of its ratings.

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ABC is such a tiny peice of the Disney empire and it's frequently reported that it is rarely discussed by the board. AoS may lose money for the network and/or the studio, but it will stay on the air because it keeps Marvel on the air weekly and the network is unlikely to do any better, especially in those hard to reach men's demos, with another show.

ETA: if the show is indeed going to introduce and delve into The Inhumans, then this show will probably be on the air until that movie comes out in the fall of 2018.

Edited by Tiger
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ABC is such a tiny peice of the Disney empire and it's frequently reported that it is rarely discussed by the board. AoS may lose money for the network and/or the studio, but it will stay on the air because it keeps Marvel on the air weekly and the network is unlikely to do any better, especially in those hard to reach men's demos, with another show.

 

That's a good point.  AoS can be very bland, but it is a solid, constant way to keep Marvel in people's minds.  It also introduces the films to AoS fans who haven't seen them yet. 

 

Plus, I can't see them canceling their only TV show when the WB has The Flash, and Arrow, while FOX has Gotham.

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They might not cancel the show, but they could replace most of the cast with c-list canonites. A part of me wonders if the reception to that idea is what they're testing the waters for by adding Bobbi. If you've got b-listers like Daredevil on Netflix, which isn't even a real network, maybe flexing their comic muscles on major television could be the ratings grab they'd go for eventually.

 

Or they could try something crazy with the timeslot like switching around stories similar to what they're going to be doing with Agent Carter in a few weeks. You could have 6 weeks each of AoS, Agent Carter, something Inhumans related and something else interspersed into a total of 24 episodes a season and it would be all killer no filler Marvel Comics entertainment. But this isn't the 70's or the BBC so that's even less likely than outright cancellation.

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Or they could try something crazy with the timeslot like switching around stories similar to what they're going to be doing with Agent Carter in a few weeks. You could have 6 weeks each of AoS, Agent Carter, something Inhumans related and something else interspersed into a total of 24 episodes a season and it would be all killer no filler Marvel Comics entertainment.

That honestly would not surprise me. Agent Carter is just one example of how networks are showing that they're willing to be flexible with scheduling and doing more mini-series and shorter runs instead of the standard 22-episode season. They're also scheduling more like cable networks nowadays, running their shows in big blocks almost like two-mini seasons rather than interrupting them with reruns every two weeks or so.

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Aos ratings down approx. 6% compared to last week -- when it also ran against a re-run of NCIS.

18-49 rating dropped from 1.8 to 1.7 and total viewers dropped from 5.4 to 5.2 million viewers (so I guess not many extra viewers tuned in to watch the fall finale).  The re-run of NCIS had nearly double the viewers of AoS.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/12/10/tv-ratings-tuesday-supernatural-the-mindy-project-the-voice-drops-the-flash-forever-down/337548/

 

ETA: corrected rating number per note by @kennyab

Edited by ottoDbusdriver

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Aos ratings down approx. 6% compared to last week -- when it also ran against a re-run of NCIS.

18-49 rating dropped from 1.8 to 1.6 and total viewers dropped from 5.4 to 5.2 million viewers (so I guess not many extra viewers tuned in to watch the fall finale).  The re-run of NCIS had nearly double the viewers of AoS.

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/12/10/tv-ratings-tuesday-supernatural-the-mindy-project-the-voice-drops-the-flash-forever-down/337548/

 

1.7, not 1.6. And total numbers are pretty irrelevant in this type of comparison. They're two shows with some overlapping demographics, but populations with vastly different viewing habits. NCIS has a large older fanbase that's used to watching TV at a certain time and keeps the same patterns week after week, and it's TV that follows a certain formula most every episode -- people like that and find it comforting (and that's not a knock, good on them hitting on a winning combo).

AoS has a younger audience that streams and buys DVDs, it has a sci-fi bent, meaning it's automatically cutting out a population of viewers, and it's serial nature makes it harder to watch an individual episode in isolation, leading some to binge watch.

 

NCIS and AoS are apples and oranges. Procedurals tend to have a built-in advantage when it comes to traditional ratings. ABC/Disney/Marvel knows this. Advertisers know this. AoS really isn't in competition with NCIS, despite sharing a time slot.

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Remember what tvbythenumbers says about this: it's not about outrunning the bear, it's about outrunning the other guy running from the bear.

 

As long as SHIELD's rating stay relatively stable, it's fine.  It will always be behind NCIS and possibly even behind reruns of NCIS, but NCIS is the most successful CBS show not called "The Big Bang Theory."  SHIELD's ratings are middle-of-the-pack for an ABC show, so unless some amazing midseason replacements come in, it probably gets renewed and sticks around for at least two more seasons to hit the magic number for syndication.

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Remember what tvbythenumbers says about this: it's not about outrunning the bear, it's about outrunning the other guy running from the bear.

 

As long as SHIELD's rating stay relatively stable, it's fine.  It will always be behind NCIS and possibly even behind reruns of NCIS, but NCIS is the most successful CBS show not called "The Big Bang Theory."  SHIELD's ratings are middle-of-the-pack for an ABC show, so unless some amazing midseason replacements come in, it probably gets renewed and sticks around for at least two more seasons to hit the magic number for syndication.

I never got into the numbers game but as a middle aged man wouldn't NCIS draw the Matlock/In The Heat of The Night crowd, the shows my parents watched when they were my age? I find that I am aging my watching of Major Crimes fits that mode. That I was a Marvel and not DC kid makes Agents a go to comics show when I am likely to shift the others where I don't have basic knowledge of the fictional universes

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I never got into the numbers game but as a middle aged man wouldn't NCIS draw the Matlock/In The Heat of The Night crowd, the shows my parents watched when they were my age? I find that I am aging my watching of Major Crimes fits that mode. That I was a Marvel and not DC kid makes Agents a go to comics show when I am likely to shift the others where I don't have basic knowledge of the fictional universes

 

It's funny, because I almost compared NCIS to Matlock yesterday when talking about the numbers. Great minds.

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It's funny, because I almost compared NCIS to Matlock yesterday when talking about the numbers. Great minds.

I compared it to Heat of the Night myself because how the little police department in Heat kept growing exponentially. first from five officers then that five were all Captains and Sergeants, and in NCIS from flying coach and nobody ever hearing about them to the lead agency which handles everything having to do with national security

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I never got into the numbers game but as a middle aged man wouldn't NCIS draw the Matlock/In The Heat of The Night crowd, the shows my parents watched when they were my age? I find that I am aging my watching of Major Crimes fits that mode. That I was a Marvel and not DC kid makes Agents a go to comics show when I am likely to shift the others where I don't have basic knowledge of the fictional universes

 

Police procedurals do draw an older crowd.  For example, CSI and Law & Order SVU get more total viewers than Agents of SHIELD, but fewer in the 18-49 demographic.  The audience for NCIS does skew older, but still gets more 18-49 viewers than SHIELD.  The last time a new episode of SHIELD went up against a new episode of NCIS: New Orleans, NCIS:NO had about 50% more viewers in the 18-49 demo, but almost 300% more in the "total viewers" category:

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/11/19/tuesday-final-ratings-the-voice-the-flash-marry-me-adjusted-down/329480/

 

So the NCIS shows are getting a few more young viewers and a LOT more older viewers compared to SHIELD.  The younger viewers are what CBS cares about, and why the NCIS shows will be on for years to come.  CSI on the other hand is floundering even though it has more total viewers than SHIELD.  This will probably be the last year for CSI, but SHIELD is probably safe if the ratings stay where they are.

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From the print issue of the new TV Guide Dec. 22, 2014 - Jan. 4, 2015 Double Issue (Cover: Cheers & Jeers, 2014's Best & Worst in TV):

Double Agents
Art imitates art as S.H.I.E.L.D. gets a comic book tie-in

Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. won't return to ABC until March 3, but fans can still get level 8 access to the adventures of Special Agent Phil Coulson and his team during the hiatus.  On December 31, Marvel Comics releases the first issue of a S.H.I.E.L.D. comic book.  Several characters created for the TV show - including Agents May (above), Fitz, and Simmons - will make their comic debut in the monthly titles.  The stories won't  directly tie in to the series' current plotlines, but the comic "shares the DNA of the TV characters," promises writer Mark Waid.  "The big difference is that we have no budgetary restrictions.  That was the marching order from Marvel: Do the TV show, but if you need to set an issue in deep space or in Atlantis at the bottom of the ocean or with a hundred superheroes, feel free." - Rich Sands

 

Then S.H.I.E.L.D. #2 goes on sale on Jan. 14, 2015.
EXCLUSIVE Marvel Preview: S.H.I.E.L.D. #2, Guest Starring Ms. Marvel
By Jamie Lovett   12/12/2014
http://comicbook.com/2014/12/12/exclusive-marvel-preview-s-h-i-e-l-d-2-guest-starring-ms-marvel/

Edited by tv echo

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  • ABC’s “Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.” ranked No. 1 in its hour (tie), beating original comedies on Fox by 31%  and NBC by 55%.

     

  • “S.H.I.E.L.D.” drew its 2nd-largest audience and equaled its 2nd-highest Adult 18-49 rating since its season premiere 11 weeks ago – since 9/23/14. In fact, the show held steady week to week in viewers.

     

  • The ABC drama improved its hour year to year by 29% in Total Viewers and by 21% in Adults 18-49.

 

Week of December 8

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The ABC drama improved its hour year to year by 29% in Total Viewers and by 21% in Adults 18-49.

 

 

It also improved in quality but we won't say that out loud.  

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Edward James Olmos Comes to Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

Olmos will play Robert Gonzales, whose debut this spring in “Marvel’s Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.” will have massive repercussions for Director Coulson and his team.

 

“Edward James Olmos brings an amazing gravitas to any role he inhabits, something we knew we needed for Robert Gonzales,” said Executive Producer and Marvel’s Head of Marvel Television, Jeph Loeb. “When Olmos first appears on our series, everyone will have to take notice--including our favorite Agents.”

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I am so excited to Edward James Olmos. I loved his Admiral Adama on BSG, and I think he's an awesome actor. Even when they're used for just single appearances, I feel like the guest stars have been great this season and really brought a lot to the show.

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Related to both AoS and Agent Carter:

 

ABC defends 'Agent Carter' ratings

 

Addressing the performance of its other Marvel drama, Agents of SHIELD, along with Carter, Lee said: “SHIELD is actually a great and powerful show for us, [it’s 18-49 demo rating with seven days of DVR playback playback] pops up to a 3.0, it brings in a male audience for us and it’s creatively really strong now. We left a great cliffhanger at the end of Christmas and now it’s going to come back with some fantastic storylines. And to have Agent Carter in the [sHIELD hiatus] gap doing sort of double what we were doing there last year is great for us.”
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ADAMA! YAY! 

 

Although, when he was in Dexter I was super excited! And well.. it didn't last long. Granted, Dexter should have been canned by then anyway. 

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Last night's Skye-centric promo did not make me think, "Yes, that's the show I've been missing."  So far, I'd prefer to rewatch Agent Carter episodes.

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Last night's Skye-centric promo did not make me think, "Yes, that's the show I've been missing."  So far, I'd prefer to rewatch Agent Carter episodes.

 

Well, given the mid-season finale, I kind of think Skye is the elephant in the room.  Fleshing that out this next episode makes sense to me.

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And at least she's not "HERE IS MY AWESOME NEW POWER THAT WILL ENABLE ME TO SOLVE ALL PROBLEMS." She's scared and it looks like everyone else might be scared of her.

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I still can't understand the Skye-hate, and I'm usually on the hate-bandwagon when it comes to fandom scrappies like Laurel or Katrina or whoever. Anyway, I agree, it makes sense that she would be featured heavily in the next episode, considering the events of the midseason finale.

Edited by FurryFury
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It seems that for some viewers, any Skye screentime is too much. I don't think that the majority of viewers feel that way, though; I've only seen that much outright hatred at TWoP (where it seemed like 90% of the posters hated Skye, although I always got the feeling that people who liked her didn't bother to speak up amongst all the shouting about how awful she was) and to a lesser extent here (which makes sense because a lot of TWoPpers came over here). It seems like more people like her (or at least are neutral about her) this season, though, probably because Coulson has stopped telling everyone how great she is every five seconds, and the cast has expanded and focused more on different people each episode.

 

I'm glad they're going this way with Skye's power, really. I would hate it if someone on this show got a superpower and almost instantly mastered it. I like that they gave Skye a power that could be useful but also isn't so amazing that she could single-handedly save any mission. Most of the team's missions require finesse, not the ground shaking and cracking. Of course, Skye could eventually develop the ability to focus her seismic powers on a tiny target like someone's heart (as Quake has in the comics) or brain, but I'd assume that's a long way off.

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I still can't understand the Skye-hate, and I'm usually on the hate-bandwagon when it comes to fandom scrappies like Laurel or Katrina or whoever. Anyway, I agree, it makes sense that she would be featured heavily in the next episode, considering the events of the midseason finale.

It's strange for me too. I usually agree with the hated characters. But I like Skye and am interested in her upcoming storyline.

And it does look like the team is afraid of what she can do now. Which should also be interesting.

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I don't currently hate Skye, but no matter how much the show has improved, they have not won my trust.  They sucked before, they can suck again.  Since I don't read comic books and I didn't sign onto the show for superpowers, this development by itself is not enough to hook me.  Especially since Chloe Bennett has yet to wow me as an actress.  Ruth Negga, on the other hand -- I'm more interested in seeing Raina's story than Skye's.

 

Short version:  It's not the what, it's the how.

Edited by ChelseaNH
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