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S08.E20 Again With This: Beverly Hills, 90210 Violates Val, Again

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Interesting timing that this episode comes right after the Cosby conviction. It was rape in 1998 on a soap opera, but some people are still questioning and victim-blaming 20 years later...the more things change, the more they stay the same. 

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Interesting timing that this episode comes right after the Cosby conviction. It was rape in 1998 on a soap opera, but some people are still questioning and victim-blaming 20 years later...the more things change, the more they stay the same. 

Not only that, they're also getting started on Donna's own opioid addiction storyline. I would say 90210 is prescient, but like you said, it's more like the more things changes...

On a lighter note, who says the Cirque du Soleil isn't good for a date?

Simpsons cirque.png

Edited by MerBearStare
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I remember the date rape storyline but didn't remember it was Noah's brother and that it was Sam Anders doing it.

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Did Donna actually have sex with Noah? I mean, I don't why I care but considering they kept Saint Donna a virgin for 217 years before finally "giving in" (barf) to David, are they then continuing the misogynistic melodrama by having her sleep with every new BF because, clearly, once someone has sex once they're now damaged goods obligated to put out on the reg (double barf).

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32 minutes ago, STOPSHOUTING said:

Did Donna actually have sex with Noah? I mean, I don't why I care but considering they kept Saint Donna a virgin for 217 years before finally "giving in" (barf) to David, are they then continuing the misogynistic melodrama by having her sleep with every new BF because, clearly, once someone has sex once they're now damaged goods obligated to put out on the reg (double barf).

I didn’t get a misogynistic vibe, and I think this is realistic in Donna’s case. Her whole virginity stance was largely due to her Catholic upbringing and parental expectations. Once she got over that (hypocritical) mental block, she was free to explore.

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I hated this story line so much... I think soon we get the classic Kelly "look, I'm trying to apologize" Taylor. It's all victim blaming with a dash of Perry Mason at the end. But if remember correctly, Noah doesn't get in any trouble for what happens right?

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I think there is some throwaway line where David gets all mad that he "waited" for years (which meant cheating on her and then breaking up and dating everyone) while Noah gets to hop right in.  I am pleased a little that Donna seems to want to get to know Noah a little before they have sex.  

I'm a little squinked out how nowadays shows seem to go from first kiss to full on sex within seconds.  Like no foreplay, just a few kisses then pants are OFF.  Who does that?! (is this what the kids do now?)

Later, doesn't Donna have an affair with a fireman and Kelly says something about she (Kelly) only has had sex with people she's in love with.  

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Is anyone surprised that Noah's brother is a rapist/sexual predator/all-around sleazo? That's literally the ONLY role I've ever seen him play.
*SVU (Surprise! He drugged women and then raped them. Obviously didn't learn his lesson.)
*One Tree Hill (only stat rape and she was totally into it, but still not cool)
*Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman (creepy stalker- and yes, I totally watched that show, sorry...)
*Revenge (no sexual assault that I can recall, but he was definitely a sleazo up to no good)

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3 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I think there is some throwaway line where David gets all mad that he "waited" for years (which meant cheating on her and then breaking up and dating everyone) while Noah gets to hop right in.  I am pleased a little that Donna seems to want to get to know Noah a little before they have sex.  

I'm a little squinked out how nowadays shows seem to go from first kiss to full on sex within seconds.  Like no foreplay, just a few kisses then pants are OFF.  Who does that?! (is this what the kids do now?)

Later, doesn't Donna have an affair with a fireman and Kelly says something about she (Kelly) only has had sex with people she's in love with.  

The bolded isn't a new thing. I'm 43 and remember watching soap operas and nighttime soaps/dramas (Dallas, Falcon Crest, L.A. Law) when I was a kid and seeing actors do that. I remember being very confused as to why people who were paired together had their first kiss, and then immediately tore each other's clothes off and fell into bed. Cut scene. Fade in on afterglow with actors covered by a magic sheet.

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I don't know if it was intended but after Donna finally gave it up to David , I noticed her character was much more bitchy all the time . That role used to just be Kelly's while Donna was labeled the Saint by the crew . 

Also , I get that her dad was in charge of the show ... but it was pretty laughable that every very hot guy was in love with Donna and found her to be so irresistible ( looking at you cliff ) .. ( and many others ) 

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17 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I am pleased a little that Donna seems to want to get to know Noah a little before they have sex.

They had sex several episodes ago, which I know because I am a degenerate and made a gif for the Visual Aids.

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I know David didn't wait to have sex with her like he said he did..He cheated on her and dated several other people.... but I do get why he was mad at Donna for moving on so quickly. She made a whole stink during the prior season to everyone about how much she loved David and how she knew he was the one... yet when they broke up, she moved on within seconds and got into another serious relationship. I know these things happen and David forged her check .. Instead of talking it out with the "love of her life", she just jumped in another guys bed asap. And then we we had to deal with her dating / fighting with Noah for the next 2.5 seasons and David moping around feeling sorry for himself. And nothing was worse than cousin Gina being added to the show.

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Once again this show has some ok ideas and just let's it go to crap.  Exploring the issue of consent is fantastic (esp with the complexity of a past lover and a woman who may have been sexually experienced vs the classic virgin scenario) but the show doesn't carry it through and it's a whole he said/she said, oopsie you were drugged thing.  But at the end of the day, Val didn't give consent to Noah, right?  

Does Donna forgive Noah because he was drunk? Why isn't fidelity more of an issue to Donna given the fact that both Ray and David cheated on her?  

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I knew those rape accusation bongos sounded familiar:

(go to 39:57 if the video doesn't automatically) 

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On 5/1/2018 at 3:47 PM, Carmen MacCodykins said:

*One Tree Hill (only stat rape and she was totally into it, but still not cool)

OMG - he was Nathan's Uncle Cooper!  I could not place him.  Thank you!

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Did Donna actually have sex with Noah? I mean, I don't why I care but considering they kept Saint Donna a virgin for 217 years before finally "giving in" (barf) to David, are they then continuing the misogynistic melodrama by having her sleep with every new BF because, clearly, once someone has sex once they're now damaged goods obligated to put out on the reg (double barf).

Did anyone watch Marvel's Runaways? I really liked the first season, but when Gert and Chase hook up (granted, in a moment when they thought the world was about to end), I was shocked when they maybe had sex immediately? I mean, this is a semi-nerdy high school kid making first contact with her long-time crush, and what, they fuck? Still shaking my head at that one.

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I know we talked about it upthread, but what's wrong with folks just kissing and maybe making out a little, instead of kissing and then, sexy time?  I only watched a couple of episodes of Girls and was surprised to see how quickly they jumped into sex and how often it was so bad.  

The only thing good about Gina is Vanessa M.  That girl is gorgeous.  And, given what happens on the show, is a testament to how freaky genetics can be.  

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10 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I know we talked about it upthread, but what's wrong with folks just kissing and maybe making out a little, instead of kissing and then, sexy time?  I only watched a couple of episodes of Girls and was surprised to see how quickly they jumped into sex and how often it was so bad.  

This rings true to me because that's how college and my 20s were. Bad sex especially. TMI.

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11 hours ago, Halo said:

This rings true to me because that's how college and my 20s were. Bad sex especially. TMI.

I guess that's part of the "realness" of Girls.  It's better than the "afterglow" that you see on most soaps. 

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1 hour ago, Sarah D. Bunting said:

We may not have, as we record these fairly far in advance -- apologies! We're back 5/14. 

No, we did.

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Thanks to both of you! Glad to know it's not a problem with my phone / software / whatever.  See you 5/14 and thanks for all the fish.

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On 5/2/2018 at 9:01 AM, CurlyATX said:

Once again this show has some ok ideas and just let's it go to crap.  Exploring the issue of consent is fantastic (esp with the complexity of a past lover and a woman who may have been sexually experienced vs the classic virgin scenario) but the show doesn't carry it through and it's a whole he said/she said, oopsie you were drugged thing.  But at the end of the day, Val didn't give consent to Noah, right?  

Does Donna forgive Noah because he was drunk? Why isn't fidelity more of an issue to Donna given the fact that both Ray and David cheated on her?  

No Val didn’t consent to Noah. She was incapable of consenting to anyone given how roofies work. 

I haven’t listen to this podcast yet but my BIG problem with this storyline is that they do not stay true to how a roofie works. They acting like it’s being really drunk, knowing what’s going on but your reflexes are slower.  Val would’ve been knocked out cold, unconscious etc while Noah was penetrating her. Even if Noah mistook her initial attention to him as “flirting” ie when she reached out for balance, he didn’t notice he was thrusting into an unconcious woman?!! Even if he didn’t think she’d been drugged, her being completely passed out, wouldn’t he be concerned she was sick or something?! Or was it more that he thought she passed out and didn’t care he just wanted to get off?! It’s disgusting poor Val. 

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On 5/1/2018 at 2:03 PM, CurlyATX said:

I hated this story line so much... I think soon we get the classic Kelly "look, I'm trying to apologize" Taylor. It's all victim blaming with a dash of Perry Mason at the end. But if remember correctly, Noah doesn't get in any trouble for what happens right?

Nope Noah doesn’t get in trouble. 

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