S02.E03: Virtù e Fortuna

[formerlyfreedom]

There is beauty in who we are. Shouldn't we, too, try to survive?

 

[AimingforYoko]

So, the lady in the cold open went from being threatened by Indians (and a tiger) to threatened by Indians. Don't think I didn't see what you did there, Westworld.

[Primetimer]

As one (maybe two) other parks are revealed, our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP breaks down Westworld's latest feline attacks, decapitations, and betrayals!

View the full article

[ShadowHunter]

Finally some movement with Teddy.  

Good to see you again Felix. 

At least Maeve included Hector going into the real world with her this time.  The scene where he was saying he loved her but the lines were written were good. 

I liked the interaction with Peter and Dolores. 

[mac123x]

Park 6 = Rajworld I guess?  I was getting an Edwardian vibe from the costumes of the other guests (dude in a white straw hat was the spitting image of Teddy Roosevelt).

 

Other than that, I was pretty bored.  I'm indifferent to Dolores's story, and her eventual rift with Teddy is snzzzzz.  Sorry, I fell asleep.   I will give it this -- her desire to keep Peter Abernathy at least had a double motive.  She's sentimental about his role as one of her fathers, but she's also pragmatic about his value to Delos.  That makes her a little more practical than Maeve's quixotic quest to rescue a little girl who will have no fucking idea who she is why oh why did they give their best actor this stupid plot?  Gah.

 

Bernard seems to be leaking brain juice again, and oh noes, Clementine knocked him out before he could resupply!  Will he or won't he get new milk before time runs out?  Yeah, we've already seen him in scenes that occur later chronologically, so not a lot of tension there.

 

Delos seems to have relented and sent in the rescue even though "the package" hasn't been delivered yet.  Charlotte's plan to smuggle the IP out via a host's brain doesn't hold up under too much scrutiny.  One host brain can contain all the code, and we've seen that the brains are small white cylinders maybe 4-5" in diameter.  Just put the data in a brain, pop it out of the host and stick it in her luggage.  Problem solved.

[Dev F]

2 hours ago, mac123x said:

Delos seems to have relented and sent in the rescue even though "the package" hasn't been delivered yet.

In the earlier timeframe, the rescue forces weren't from Delos, were they? They refer to them as QA -- meaning they're the in-house security forces, right?

All in all, I thought this was a fun but overly plotty episode, with so much going on that it missed some opportunities to explore the characters or ruminate on interesting ideas. I was especially disappointed in how Rebus was portrayed after Bernard monkeyed with his virtue settings. He immediately became a straightforward white hat spouting chivalrous cliches -- but why would the designers have programmed him with such cliches in the first place? It would've been much more interesting to see him awkwardly improvving a virtuous persona around his existing villainous character.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Dev F

[TobinAlbers]

Sizemore got some character background so he's a dead man walking. Adored Sizemore saying Hector's lines. But I will also contend that while Hector is reciting lines he was programmed with that he may still be applying the words associated with love/devotion correctly to what his newly awakening sentient brain perceives as love/devotion for Maeve.

Dolores's disappointment in Teddy failing her test made me chuckle. The look on her face was 'Damnit, Teddy, get with the program already'. William/ MiB appears to more and more in tune with Dolores' current disposition than Teddy.  And damn, girlfriend isn't inspiring loyalty in anyone. She'll use you to get what she wants- closer to world domination.

It was so nice to get the peeks at Colonial IndiaWorld and SamuraiWorld bleeding over their borders and the awakening virus also causing the hosts in the other worlds to also rebel. The woman survived that fall with a tiger pawing at her. She's made of tough stuff. Would be a hoot if she's William's daughter.

I like how trains are a common entry into both West and India World and we saw the train tunnel entrance that led back into HQ. Is the HQ we saw only for Westworld with the other parks having their own HQs and crews that are all wondering WTH is going on at Westworld? Do they even know? 

[WatchrTina]

Well that was entertaining if . . . puzzling.  I'm not sure why Dolores felt the need to shoot all of the solders from the fort.  And I don't understand How Armistice got a new arm after hers was crushed in the season 1 finale.  I guess those two techs she had tied up fixed her up with a new one under threat of being shot? 

As for the woman who escaped from "India" and then ran in to those really scary Indians -- well, her luck really sucks, doesn't it?

Speaking of those Indians -- I got the sense that they knew immediately that the story designer than Maeve has kidnapped was human.  Why can the androids sometimes tell the difference between humans and androids and sometimes not?  I'm talking about Bernard, who most of the 'bots seem to think is human.  He must be special in some way -- his hand-print got him into that bunker in S02E01 and I got the sense that it was safeguarded to allow in only humans and not any of the park 'bots (the 'bots inside were all the generic, all-white, low-tech models). But despite those safeguards, the lock let Bernard in. So the Park's security system identifies him as human.  Something is up with that.  I presume it's something Robert did, still playing out.

 

10 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

The woman survived that fall with a tiger pawing at her. She's made of tough stuff. Would be a hoot if she's William's daughter.

Oooooooh that would be AMAZING.  I hope that is true.

Edited May 7, 2018 by WatchrTina

[Ellaria]

Meh on this episode. The opening scene was initially confusing. I kept asking my son if he was sure that it was Westworld. At least we know that the hosts in the other parks are rebelling, too.

There was a little too much of Dolores and the various groups of “hosts that will die soon but don’t know it.” Teddy seems to be growing a spine so that can only mean an eventual conflict with Dolores. I enjoyed the scenes with her and Peter. There was an authenticity to those scenes that was missing in much of the other interactions.

Didn’t care for the scenes of Maeve & Company in the bunker. Seemed more like a Mission Impossinle movie than Westworld. At least Armistice and Felix are back.

Have no idea what is going on with poor Bernard. And what did he see after unlocking the “key” in Peter’s analysis. I think that Charlotte is not ready to handle whatever is going on with Peter.

[dgpolo]

23 minutes ago, mac123x said:

That makes her a little more practical than Maeve's quixotic quest to rescue a little girl who will have no fucking idea who she is why oh why did they give their best actor this stupid plot?  Gah.

Given Maeve's control over the hosts, I don't think that is going to be a problem.

 

10 minutes ago, Dev F said:

All in all, I thought this was a fun but overly plotty episode, with so much going on that it missed some opportunities to explore the characters or ruminate on interesting ideas.

On the other hand I enjoyed it a lot more than last weeks focus on Dolores.

 

7 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Dolores's disappointment in Teddy failing her test made me chuckle. The look on her face was 'Damnit, Teddy, get with the program already'.

Interesting choice of words. My thoughts were that maybe this incident was helping Teddy 'wake up', by exercising his own 'free will' and making a decision without Dolores' 'programming'

[Lithogirl]

Thank God Jonathon Tucker made it. And next week, apparently meets up with the Man in Black.

[WatchrTina]

3 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

Given Maeve's control over the hosts, I don't think that is going to be a problem.

But didn't we just see that Maeve's control is failing?  She couldn't make the Indians forget they saw her.

[Dev F]

3 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Speaking of those Indians -- I got the sense that they knew immediately that the story designer than Maeve has kidnapped was human.  Why can the androids sometimes tell the difference between humans and androids and sometimes not?  I'm talking about Bernard, who most of the 'bots seem to think is human.  He must be special in some way -- his hand-print got him into that bunker in S02E01 and I got the sense that it was safeguarded to allow in only humans and not any of the park 'bots (the 'bots inside were all the generic, all-white, low-tech models). But despite those safeguards, the lock let Bernard in. So the Park's security system identifies him as human.  Something is up with that.  I presume it's something Robert did, still playing out.

While it's clear that Robert did a bunch of stuff to monkey with the security systems -- as evidenced by the fact that guns can kill people now and hosts can wander from park to park -- I think people are misunderstanding what was going on with the Delos bunker. The idea was that Arnold wasn't considered special by the bunker's security system, which is why he had to touch the handle in order to register his DNA.

Basically, the bunker opens only to high-ranking Delos personnel like Charlotte, but she can in turn authorize other people to enter the bunker with her. Grabbing the door handle along with her is what grants that authorization, by registering the companion's DNA and telling the drones, "If you detect someone in the bunker who has this DNA signature, don't attack them, because Charlotte said they could come in."

[TrininisaScorp]

As a Desi, the moment it opened, I yelled "fucking hell, it's the British Raj period".  Of course, THAT is the period of Indian we are going to see.  Freaking colonizers (thanks, Black Panther)!   The gal in the beginning is interesting though, I imagine she will be important later.  I do like that we know more than just Westworld are in open rebellion (#GoTs).   Can't wait to see more of Shogun World.

Man, the Delores and Peter scenes while he was glitching out were well done.  It felt so sad, like a daughter talking to her dementia-ridden father.   

I'm trying to figure out this whole Bernard thing.  People have to know he is a host, right?   Like, they are using him in some way to keep connected to the rebelling hosts?  

Poor Teddy.   Delores is inadvertently making some of the hosts choose between one master (her) or another (humans).  By doing what he wants to do (or is it his programming?!), Teddy crosses her master plan, so he'll die because of it.  

[dgpolo]

Where did Dolores pick up all those Ninja looking guys?

What was Sylvester carrying?

[mac123x]

1 minute ago, dgpolo said:

Where did Dolores pick up all those Ninja looking guys?

What was Sylvester carrying?

Those men are from the Wyatt narrative last season.  Teddy described them as not really men, but not animals either.  Immune to pain, because they think they're already dead.  Something like that.  Angela was part of their group.

 

Sylvester was carrying a McGuffin to be revealed later.  Looked like it couldn't have weighed too much, or he would have been carrying it differently and whining about how heavy it was.

Edited May 7, 2018 by mac123x
added

[LittleIggy]

Still don’t give a bleep about Delores. Clementine didn’t look “woke.” She looked spaced out.

[numbnut]

23 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

Still don’t give a bleep about Delores. Clementine didn’t look “woke.” She looked spaced out.

Dolores needs some layers as Wyatt. I'm also tired of Charlotte's face -- she has this perpetual look of "I've done this whole robot rebellion thing before and I'm over it." Maybe Clem can't be woke after being lobotomized? The blond (name?) and the other rebellious hosts seem robotic. Why did their personalities vanish? The opening was a nice change but the woman's interest in the male guest was risky -- he could be sexing up hosts because he's diseased and unfuckable in the real world. It was also weird that the hosts killed the guests, left in silence and returned to finish their attack. I agree that Maeve's mission isn't very compelling.

Edited May 7, 2018 by numbnut

[Auntie Anxiety]

55 minutes ago, mac123x said:

 

Sylvester was carrying a McGuffin to be revealed later.  Looked like it couldn't have weighed too much, or he would have been carrying it differently and whining about how heavy it was.

I thought it might be the flamethrower.

Found this episode kind of boring. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm glad that Armistice finally showed up -- complete with a new replacement arm

[Teitr Styrr]

It Looked like Bernard downloaded what was in Abernathy into himself, right? Tess is gonna be pissed! If that was what happening anyway. Bernard mighta been just trying to get a top off of fluid I guess.

I think maybe Delores let Teddy make his own decision so he could learn to start making his own decisions. We'll see.

I hope that woman from the opening scene makes it. She's feisty!

ETA: Crap! Forgot to say I was tickled pink that Armistice is back! She is also feisty! 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Teitr Styrr

[Pippin]

Well, I'm fascinated but full-blown gonzo confused. And totally hooked.

It makes total sense that Raj/India World would be set during the British Colonial period; power, empire, dominance --all part of the "mindset" (for lack of a better term) that those who come to this park crave.

I was cheering for the tiger, BTW. I loathe big game hunting and those who practice it --they're all bloody cowards as far as I'm concerned, and I'm sorry that beautiful animal (even if not real) died and that bitch lived. I was yelling at the screen while she was running from the cat, "Now you know how it feels! Not so much fun now, is it?!!" I should only wish this would happen more often in real life. (I never said I was nice!)

So I'm guessing Peter gets away somehow, yes?

I've read some of the theories on Reddit; I won't repeat any because my brain is still trying to unscramble itself. Still, I think this is half the fun of this show: all the theorizing that goes on!

[LittleIggy]

@Pippin, totally agree with you about big game (or any unless you need to to survive) hunting.

[magdalene]

Armistice! So happy to see her again. She was certainly one of my favorites in the first season - "the gods are pussies".

Is it too obvious to arrive at the conclusion that Teddy will be killed by Dolores eventually? And that's how he ends up a floating body in the water?

Edited May 7, 2018 by magdalene

[gatopretoNYC]

Darn, I was so sure at the beginning that the woman was a younger Theresa.

[Sentient Meat]

2 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

As a Desi, the moment it opened, I yelled "fucking hell, it's the British Raj period".  Of course, THAT is the period of Indian we are going to see.  Freaking colonizers (thanks, Black Panther)!   The gal in the beginning is interesting though, I imagine she will be important later.  I do like that we know more than just Westworld are in open rebellion (#GoTs).   Can't wait to see more of Shogun World.

Man, the Delores and Peter scenes while he was glitching out were well done.  It felt so sad, like a daughter talking to her dementia-ridden father.   

I'm trying to figure out this whole Bernard thing.  People have to know he is a host, right?   Like, they are using him in some way to keep connected to the rebelling hosts?  

Poor Teddy.   Delores is inadvertently making some of the hosts choose between one master (her) or another (humans).  By doing what he wants to do (or is it his programming?!), Teddy crosses her master plan, so he'll die because of it.  

I'm not Indian but I thought the same thing... I wonder if they'll have an antebellum Civil War Django Unchained zone too.

Then again, if you go into the past... whether it's Raj land, or Samurai land, or Westworld... it's always going to be problematic for anyone who isn't the male ruling class.

I saw a cable going from Abernathy into Bernard, so I assume he tried to upload the file to himself... I'm just not sure if he was able to finish, or if he got a corrupted version of the files.

[Bannon]

That was really,really, boring. One of the most ineptly shot battle scenes I've seen in a long time. Yeah, I know there are several explanations for it, in terms of internal logic within the story, but visually, it was like watching paint dry, and that is never a good thing.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Bannon

[dr pepper]

Just started watching. Gonna give my reactions as they come up.

01. Somehow i find the concept of Rajworld more disturbing than that of Westworld. But that might just be because i have a better idea of what sort of events could occur there than i did when the show began.

02. Ok, now they have pellet guns, which robots react to as if they were real guns, whereas they only sting humans. You use them to determine if the sex you're about to have is part of the experience, or if you've scored with another tourist.

03. And, hmm, either they are using real elephants, or they've got star wars level cgi there and eveyone's just sitting on giant cradles.

04. "These violent delights have violent ends." So apparently Ford has been messing with the programming here too. Cue the Sepoy Mutiny!

05. So, they have real guns as well as the pellet shooters. Good to know.

06. And of course, there's a tiger! So is it still programmed to merely pretend to eat people?

07. Ah, this is the tiger that will be found later in Westworld. So the robot uprising is simultaneous.

08. And now back to corporate damage control and the mercenaries.

09. The mercs are too butch for their own good. They think they understand the level of risk they're facing. I think they're wrong.

10. Ah, even with the mercs here, we're still at no one gets to leave until they find Peter Abernathy.

11. "He seems to keep slipping away from us." That refers to Peter, but also a sly reference to Bernard's glitchy memory.

12. Ah, that's a good D&D ploy. Separate the boss from the others, and use mind control to make him switch sides.

13. Too bad they didn't take the time to change Peter.

14. Finally, Dolores meets the boss of the confeds. There are an awful lot of them, considering that the guests come in singly or in small groups. I wonder how the confed storyline was supposed to go originally.

15. Hey, it's Maeve's little buddy, Clementine. I'm glad to see her, but surprised to see her in this faction.

16. It occurs to me that Westworld's terraforming is as advanced as its robotics.

17. Maeve and Hector and a reluctant Sizemore are searching for her old setting. Oops, the park didn't completely scrub the ghost warrior storyline, after all.

18. Double oops, Maeve's admin access doesn't apply to them.

19. And, back underground we go!

20. Maeve makes good use of her frustration routines.

21. Meanwhile back at confed hq, Bernard and Peter are brought in. Does Dolores remember that Peter is her father? Yes. Does she remember that Bernard is her mentor? If so, she doesn't show it.

22. Dear old Dad has exceeded his parameters and tries to drop back into his loop.

23. Sizemore is offended to see Maeve and Hector, two "loners", being a couple. I think that's because that's some of his own programming that they're bypassing.

24. Apparently his sense of wrongness is greater than his fear because he actually presumes to scold them.

25. Maeve quickly deduces that he was attempting to rewrite his own life and project it onto Hector. She finds him pathetic and it shows.

26. Ah, Dolores does remember Bernard.

27. She tells him she is truly free, asks him to fix her father, and declares her ambition to take control of the park.

28. Bernard wants to disabuse her by telling her how much bigger the real world is. My guess is she's going to remind him that's she's been out there. Yup.

29. "There is beauty in what we are, shouldn't we too, try to survive?" Robot existentialism. Or maybe another of Ford's lines.

30. Meanwhile back in the tunnels, Maeve hears machine guns ahead. She decides it's time for the better part of valor.

31. A human with a machine gun runs by, having lost to a robot with a flame thrower. They watch him burn, then join her.

32. Ah it's Armistice! But she's not seeking any truces now. She's got Felix and the other tech (Silvester, i think) captive in one of the work rooms.

33. Sylvester keeps yelling "grenade!" Is he trying to set off the destruct they put in Maeve last season?

34. Armistice had one of her arms stuck in a door during the initial uprising. She cut it off so she could shoot a few more humans. She has now replaced it with one of the mechanical ones the park was using before they switched to more humanlike bodies.

35. Bernard is playing medic. He can tell that Peter has a huge file in him that's unrelated to his persona. It seems to take him a few seconds to realize that that must be what Charlotte was after. He tells Dolores that and says that this makes Peter a liability.

36. Meanwhile Charlotte makes it back to the cleanup crew. She commandeers a squad and some body armor.

37. Back at the fort, the scouts report incoming enemy. Dolores advises them on a defensive strategy. The confed boss doesn't like it, says they don't retreat. On the other hand, he is willing to use mines. And those are the crudest kind of mine, just nitroglycerine and wires so probably invisible to modern sensors.

38. Bernard is still working. Peter can't seem to get the "violent delights" quote right. Bernard finds something. "One time use key". We don't get to see what it unlocks.

39. The confeds await the attack. The wooden barracades won't do any good.

40. The hell? The mercs are approaching on foot!

41. The confeds are doing the "whites of their eyes" hold, but of course the mercs have the advantage of range and start blasting away. Oh, there are the buggies.

42. The confeds start to lose their 19th century minds as they experience the machine gun fusillade. They follow their programming and go down as they're hit. The attackers close in on the gate.

43. Dolores keeps her calm. So does Charlotte.

44. The door to the infirmary is blown down. Bernard quickly unplugs his tablet from Peter and shrinks into a corner. Two mercs drag Peter away, apparently not noticing Bernard.

45. Dolores signals her crew. Then she rushes off when she sees her father is captured. She ignores bullet hits. She and Teddy kill two mercs but Charlotte races away with Peter.

46. The confed leader calls for a retreat but most of his troops are left outside when the gates close. And Dolores's are inside. They shoot through the gate, killing mostly confeds. The confed leader realizes too late that his people were just a sacrifice in her plan.

47. And there goes the nitro!

48. Bernard attempts to leave but his motor functions are deteriorating. Clementine conks him with a rifle butt and hauls him away.

49. The battle is over. The confed leader is furious, says his men's blood is on Dolores's head. She says "truth is, we don't all deserve to make it." Guess some robots are more equal than others.

50. Any fallen robots that still have "life" signs get bayonetted until they stop. Surviving confeds are lined up to be shot.

51. A confed officer attempts to convince Teddy that they two of them have a lot in common, except that Teddy doesn't really know what he wants.

52. Teddy claims not to buy the argument, but then he lets everyone go. Dolores saw that and seems perturbed. Hey, your boyfriend is showing what appears to be autonomy, just like you-- shouldn't you be happy for him?

53. Long shot of the empty territory that apparently separates the parks. It looks alot like the Grand Canyon, just without any life. Zoom to a body of water. Oh, there's the tiger again. And the womans whose kiplingesque vacation was so rudely interrupted. The tiger is dead, or at least in dead mode. The woman is alive. Sobbing and sputtering, she drags herself out of the water. Uh oh, she's not alone. It's those pesky ghost warriors again!

54. Another nature scene, this time with a thick pine forest. It's snowing on Maeve and company. Sizemore complains of the cold. Felix says they're near "the north edge of the park at the Klondike narrative". Experience Klondike! Run from giant bears! Get into a knife fight over the last can of beans! Or eat your dogs before they eat you! And bring home a lump of gold that's worth less than the cost of a single day of your adventure! Then head to the nearest modern hospital to get treated for advanced frostbite before your toes fall off!

55. With that information, Sizemore believes he knows the right direction to get to Maeve's homestead. But whats that? A campfire?

56. Sizemore digs into a mound of snow and finds a head in a helmet. He runs back to Maeve. "We have to get out of here right now!" She shushes him, then looks towards a sudden sound.

57. There's a samurai rushing towards her, sword extended.

Edited May 7, 2018 by dr pepper

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, sweet Teddy, you are too noble for Dolores' means. I have to admit that when she told him to take Jonathan Tucker out back and shoot him with everyone else, I was thinking of Ned Stark's edict that the one who passes the sentence should be the one to carry it out. Dolores obviously has no issue with violence, so was she just too lazy to shoot all those guys herself?

6 hours ago, numbnut said:

I'm also tired of Charlotte's face -- she has this perpetual look of "I've done this whole robot rebellion thing before and I'm over it."

I have not been a fan of Tessa Thompson since I saw her on Veronica Mars. But she was only 21 and it was her second acting role, so I tried to cut her some slack. I saw her a few years later on Copper and she had the same monotone voice and blank expression that I remembered from VM. She shows a little more acting skill on Westworld, but she just does nothing for me. I have found her unconvincing in everything I've seen her in. She's very pretty so I can see why people would want to have her face in the cast but her acting falls really short for me. I just don't buy her as a badass or a high powered executive here.

7 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

As a Desi, the moment it opened, I yelled "fucking hell, it's the British Raj period".  Of course, THAT is the period of Indian we are going to see.  Freaking colonizers (thanks, Black Panther)!   connected to the rebelling hosts?   

As soon as I saw where they were, I was like REALLY? Then I realized that since the park seems to cater to rich white clients, of course that's one of the fantasies they want to live out. Facepalm!

[Haleth]

Felix!  Sylvester!  And Armistice!  Great to get the band back together!  Sizemore looked ridiculous in his costume, complete with donkey.

I'm still mostly bored with Dolores's storyline.  But it was interesting to see Teddy make an independent decision to be compassionate rather than kill all the soldiers.  Given that we've seen him drowned with all the others it doesn't seem likely that he can convince Wyatt to dial back the revenge at all costs thing.  Dolores's scenes with Peter were outstanding.  I can't imagine how difficult it must be for the actor to portray Peter's scrambled mind convincingly, but he does it so well. 

Maybe if Bernard can repair him Peter can reason with his daughter.  

So now we have WestWorld, an India world, Shogun world, and a Klondike narrative.  How in the world does one park have such a different climate (snow!) only a few miles from the desert?  Miracles of technology I guess.

9 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

As for the woman who escaped from "India" and then ran in to those really scary Indians -- well, her luck really sucks, doesn't it?

And you think YOU had a bad day.  LOL

9 hours ago, Dev F said:

I was especially disappointed in how Rebus was portrayed after Bernard monkeyed with his virtue settings. He immediately became a straightforward white hat spouting chivalrous cliches -- but why would the designers have programmed him with such cliches in the first place? It would've been much more interesting to see him awkwardly improvving a virtuous persona around his existing villainous character.

Good point.  But it was funny seeing Ogg as a good guy for a change.

[Pallas]

12 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

The woman survived that fall with a tiger pawing at her. She's made of tough stuff. Would be a hoot if she's William's daughter.

She is listed as Grace, played by Dutch actor Katja Herbers. That doesn't mean she's not Emily. She has William's insider's attitude: knowing, jaded, creative, cynical, possessive and matter-of-fact about the place. Along with maybe a hint of his addiction. It seems she comes often and she comes alone. 

[Bannon]

To me, the robots have always been more interesting than the people on this show, but even the robots are kind of boring now. Maeve was more interesting when she was on her journey of discovery.

[WatchrTina]

16 hours ago, dr pepper said:

26. Ah, Dolores does remember Bernard.

But does she know he's a 'bot?  Bernard is the character that most confuses me.  The human's treat him like he's human and the 'bots . . . well I'm not sure.  When Clementine drags him away she does it in the same way she dragged that other human to the gate so I think she think's he's human (and now a captive.)

The Peter Abernathy 'bot was being treated like a captive human at the start of the episode so I guess the 'bots can't tell them apart.  But then I'm back to my question of why the Ghost Warriors tried to claim the designer that was pulling Maeve's mule.  I assumed they knew he was human.  

Sigh.  This show.  It is complicated.

Edited May 8, 2018 by WatchrTina

[zobot81]

For the life of me, I can't figure out what's missing from this season. On paper, I should be enjoying it as much as the first one, but so far, it just feels like the pacing is too...fast. And somehow, that's boring?  There used to be masterful use of silences and non-violence, to build tension. Now it seems like the opposite is true -- a LOT of talking and violence is making me ambivalent.  I hope it changes, for my sake. I might be in the minority, though...

[Ellaria]

There is a theory running around on Reddit that Ghost Nation is programmed to assist when humans in the park *may* be in trouble. That could explain why they wanted Sizemore. Could also explain why they “kidnapped” Stubbs last season. Since there is also a scene in the trailer that may fit with this theory, it would have been part of Ford’s initial programming.

It would also explain their presence when the woman from IndiaWorld washed up on the banks of the river. 

And this would make sense - sort of an internal security force.

[Pallas]

9 hours ago, Teitr Styrr said:

It Looked like Bernard downloaded what was in Abernathy into himself, right? Tess is gonna be pissed! If that was what happening anyway. Bernard mighta been just trying to get a top off of fluid I guess.

I think maybe Delores let Teddy make his own decision so he could learn to start making his own decisions. We'll see.

Yes, I think Bernard downloaded the encrypted file, which I'm guessing requires a Host OS. Dolores reached him (as Dolores, not Wyatt). Reached him and what she (or Wyatt) hoped might be the bit of Arnold in him. 

And yes, I think letting Teddy choose whether or not to obey her was Dolores's attempt to school him: to raise him from a child. She's going to need him to be capable of leading the Hosts without her.

[FearofJello]

Initially in RajWorld I thought it was a flashback and it was young Theresa, the hair, smoking and mannerisms. She also seemed to know a lot about how the hosts operate. The tiger brought it to the current (?) time frame since they said nothing had ever crossed borders before.  Still wonder if it could be young Theresa and one of the past incidents.

[numbnut]

17 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

For the life of me, I can't figure out what's missing from this season. On paper, I should be enjoying it as much as the first one, but so far, it just feels like the pacing is too...fast. And somehow, that's boring?  There used to be masterful use of silences and non-violence, to build tension. Now it seems like the opposite is true -- a LOT of talking and violence is making me ambivalent.  I hope it changes, for my sake. I might be in the minority, though...

I'm starting to worry that the show is headed toward Walking Dead territory, where all-out "war" is just a series of speeches (telling us what we already know) and a few skirmishes.

[theartandsound]

10 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

 

Oooooooh that would be AMAZING.  I hope that is true.

I thought that when she washed up on the shore she would look up and there was William would be and she would say "Dad?" or something and cut to black.

[Sakura12]

40 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

But does she know he's a 'bot?  Bernard is the character that most confuses me.  The human's treat him like he's human and the 'bots . . . well I'm not sure.  When Clementine drags him away she does it in the same way she dragged that other human to the gate so I think she think's he's human (and now a captive.)

The Peter Abernathy 'bot was being treated like a captive human at the start of the episode so I guess the 'bots can't tell them apart.  But then I'm back to my question of why the Ghost Warriors tried to claim the designer that was pulling Maeve's mule.  I assumed they knew he was human.  

Sigh.  This show.  it is complicated.

Delores knows that Bernard is a bot, because she asked him how much of the man he's based on (Arnold) is in there. She also knows he knows how to fix the bots that's why she made him try to fix her "father".  

[zobot81]

9 minutes ago, numbnut said:

I'm starting to worry that the show is headed toward Walking Dead territory, where all-out "war" is just a series of speeches (telling us what we already know) and a few skirmishes.

That would be a cliff-dive off of an A+ ledge, towards an F- chasm of death.

Dear, God, let's hope not!!  x_x

[Pallas]

1 hour ago, WatchrTina said:

4 hours ago, dr pepper said:

26. Ah, Dolores does remember Bernard.

But does she know he's a 'bot?  

Yes. She asked Bernard if he contained a part of his creator. And then she told him -- seeming to speak of him, as well as the Hosts -- "There's beauty in what we are."

Of course, the first statement could have been religious: context that would have been part of the world-view of both Dolores and Wyatt. And the second statement could have been the calculated plea of a sentient, intelligent, beautiful creation to a human she imagines would be sympathetic -- someone who was also once a creature of Ford's will.

But then she tells Bernard that he's never been out of the park, while she has. She knows. 

[TobinAlbers]

54 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

There is a theory running around on Reddit that Ghost Nation is programmed to assist when humans in the park *may* be in trouble. That could explain why they wanted Sizemore. Could also explain why they “kidnapped” Stubbs last season. Since there is also a scene in the trailer that may fit with this theory, it would have been part of Ford’s initial programming.

It would also explain their presence when the woman from IndiaWorld washed up on the banks of the river. 

And this would make sense - sort of an internal security force.

Now that would indeed be an interesting twist. Hosts that are working to protect the humans. Even more interesting would be if they evolved to want to protect the humans without Ford's programming and became a real threat to Dolroes' plan.

Sizemore catching up with Felix and Sylvester's season 1 exploits with Maeve and realizing he's just the latest human puppet at her service will be fun. The other thing Sizemore, Felix, and Sylvester allow for is humans seeing the humanity in the hosts; Dolores/Wyatt is the face of their vengeance while Maeve is the face of their compassion. William believed in their humanity until he got burned; that may be his arc is to get to that level of belief/acceptance again.

[Pallas]

9 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

William believed in their humanity until he got burned; that may be his arc is to get to that level of belief/acceptance again.

Replying in the "Bigger Questions" thread. 

[DarkRaichu]

It was a boring episode by my account, except for the new woman in Rajworld in the opening.  Speaking of which, I want to see/visit Rome/CaesarWorld :P

How did Delos security /extraction team land on the beach again?  In ep1 Delos specifically refused Charlotte's request for help since she did not have Abernathy.  This episode, Charlotte confirmed (2 weeks later) that she still did not have Abernathy.  Methinks either Delos was tricked into changing their mind OR somebody/something more important than data in Abernathy's head was trapped in Westworld

So Peter Abernathy was like Maeve's daughter, meaning Dolores also got a host she "felt" (programmed?) to have strong parent/child attachment.  To me that was the part that really dragged down Maeve's character, same case with Dolores. :P 

Spoiler

It dragged down the story because this whole parent/child attachment did not make sense to me.  The hosts could have manufactured another host that looks like the parent/child and put the said parent/child's programming into that new host.   Afterall they already rebuilt Maeve in season 1.

Hmm, maybe I just spoiled the Westworld series finale :D :D :D

 

Dolores was just as ruthless as her creators / users.  Using the hosts as shield just proved that. 

Hey Dolores said the word "splendor".  Thanks to last episode, this word is like an earworm to me now.  I can't help but notice when anyone says it.

 

 

10 hours ago, numbnut said:

The blond (name?)

Angela

 

4 hours ago, dr pepper said:

57. There's a samurai rushing towards her, sword extended.

It was a ninja / assassin 

 

10 hours ago, numbnut said:

Maybe Clem can't be woke after being lobotomized?

Somehow I do not think Clem is 100% team Dolores. 
Per last episode, this whole thing is still Ford's game.  It would make sense for him to have measures to protect his favorite host.  And yes, I am saying Bernard is Ford's favorite, just like Dolores was Arnold's.  

Edited May 7, 2018 by DarkRaichu

[Ellaria]

1 minute ago, TobinAlbers said:

Now that would indeed be an interesting twist. Hosts that are working to protect the humans. Even more interesting would be if they evolved to want to protect the humans without Ford's programming and became a real threat to Dolroes' plan.

From a practical standpoint, it makes sense that some hosts would be programmed to be on the lookout for guests in trouble. It is a way of avoiding all sorts of issues.

Definitely agree that it would more interesting if they have now evolved beyond their initial programming and stand in opposition to Dolores. It is going to be really dull if all the hosts either fall in line with Dolores or are killed by her.

I’d like to see some hosts making choices to not kill and destroy...basically choosing not to repeat the choices that many of the humans/guests made. While Maeve’s mission is different from Dolores, she has caused a lot of destruction.

[arjumand]

25 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

Now that would indeed be an interesting twist. Hosts that are working to protect the humans. Even more interesting would be if they evolved to want to protect the humans without Ford's programming and became a real threat to Dolroes' plan.

 

 

12 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

From a practical standpoint, it makes sense that some hosts would be programmed to be on the lookout for guests in trouble. It is a way of avoiding all sorts of issues.

Definitely agree that it would more interesting if they have now evolved beyond their initial programming and stand in opposition to Dolores. It is going to be really dull if all the hosts either fall in line with Dolores or are killed by her.

 

I like this idea - at first I thought it might even explain why Dolores killed the Ghost Nation host in the first episode. Then I remembered that she also killed the entire army she ostensibly went to recruit. Ugh, Dolores.

Thinking about that - the hell? Why would she do that? I thought she needed an army or whatnot. I honestly don't know what Dolores is about anymore, except revenge. 

Quote

 

I’d like to see some hosts making choices to not kill and destroy...basically choosing not to repeat the choices that many of the humans/guests made. While Maeve’s mission is different from Dolores, she has caused a lot of destruction.

 

Yeah, it would be great if Ghost Nation were the truly sentient hosts in the park, responding to the revelation of the truth with "Yes. We know. (Eye roll)". It would also justify the fact that they ignored Maeve's commands, which worked on all the other hosts. 

I'm finding all these 'peripheral' storylines more interesting than the one we're supposed to be interested in, Dolores and her band of not so merry men. 

[Sakura12]

I wonder how many of these bots are truly awake, meaning know they are a bot and not just changing their narrative.  I think it's only Delores, Mauve, Teddy, Bernard, Armistice and Hector.  Maybe Angela, but we haven't seen her enough to know. I don't think Clem is awake, just following orders. 

So these parks are basically give you the ability to time travel to the past without traveling through time.  Of course they's choose the colonization times, it was made by rich white men. I wouldn't be surprised if their was a Civil War world. 

That would be great if that woman in RajWorld was William's daughter. She's got his survival powers. If it is she probably grew up listening to her father's obsession with Westworld and figured westerns were boring and wanted to find her own world to play with. 

Edited May 7, 2018 by Sakura12

[The Companion]

10 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

I'm glad that Armistice finally showed up -- complete with a new replacement arm

I hoped she was coming back soon. There was no way she was going to suffer an off-screen death (not that a death means much in this show anyway), but I was worried she was going to be sidelined until deep in the season. 

9 hours ago, Pippin said:

It makes total sense that Raj/India World would be set during the British Colonial period; power, empire, dominance --all part of the "mindset" (for lack of a better term) that those who come to this park crave.

I was cheering for the tiger, BTW. I loathe big game hunting and those who practice it --they're all bloody cowards as far as I'm concerned, and I'm sorry that beautiful animal (even if not real) died and that bitch lived. I was yelling at the screen while she was running from the cat, "Now you know how it feels! Not so much fun now, is it?!!" I should only wish this would happen more often in real life. (I never said I was nice!)

 

Something about Colonialism World complete with big game hunting was particularly gross in a way that fit this show. 

9 hours ago, gatopretoNYC said:

Darn, I was so sure at the beginning that the woman was a younger Theresa.

Me too. Something about the way she was positioned and the way she was smoking was so evocative of her that I suspect we were all supposed to ask that question. 

4 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, sweet Teddy, you are too noble for Dolores' means. I have to admit that when she told him to take Jonathan Tucker out back and shoot him with everyone else, I was thinking of Ned Stark's edict that the one who passes the sentence should be the one to carry it out. Dolores obviously has no issue with violence, so was she just too lazy to shoot all those guys herself?

I think it was a test, and one that he failed in her mind. I like that Teddy is starting to have some autonomy in a way that will set up conflict between the two characters. For Teddy, going against his loyalty to Dolores is pretty groundbreaking. 

2 hours ago, Haleth said:

So now we have WestWorld, an India world, Shogun world, and a Klondike narrative.  How in the world does one park have such a different climate (snow!) only a few miles from the desert?  Miracles of technology I guess.

Red Dead Redemption has an area in the mountains with snow. I assumed this was basically the same thing. It is supposed to be in the Rocky Mountains. 

1 hour ago, zobot81 said:

For the life of me, I can't figure out what's missing from this season. On paper, I should be enjoying it as much as the first one, but so far, it just feels like the pacing is too...fast. And somehow, that's boring?  There used to be masterful use of silences and non-violence, to build tension. Now it seems like the opposite is true -- a LOT of talking and violence is making me ambivalent.  I hope it changes, for my sake. I might be in the minority, though...

I wonder if the disconnect for a lot of people is that it is jumping around so much in time and location. The time jumps were less noticeable in the first season, and therefore less jarring. It also feels like a lot of information coming at you at once (which I think is intentional to recreate the host POV where the past, present and future are muddled). It doesn't bug me, but I see a lot of people who are unhappy with the season complaining about being taken out of the story by the time jumps. 

There was a lot I loved this episode. Maeve and Hector continue to be adorable. I can't believe how hard I ship them (and I am not a shipper in general). I thought it was so sweet that Maeve just basically shrugged off the criticism that Hector's words weren't his own. I also enjoyed her needling Sizemore. 

I was glad the gave Dolores (and really ERW) a scene with some emotional impact. We got to see more than the Wyatt character that she is hiding behind a bit. I found myself tearing up in her scene with her father and I loved the discussion of "I will" vs. "I may." I think her end game is a little muddy, which is making it hard to understand her willingness to sacrifice a bunch of "her kind" but I think there is more than meets the eye. 

Something about Clem is just so sad. I think it is because the actress does such a good job with the vacant look. I would love to see her get her own arc at some point. 

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Ellaria Sand said:

There is a theory running around on Reddit that Ghost Nation is programmed to assist when humans in the park *may* be in trouble. That could explain why they wanted Sizemore. Could also explain why they “kidnapped” Stubbs last season. Since there is also a scene in the trailer that may fit with this theory, it would have been part of Ford’s initial programming.

It would also explain their presence when the woman from IndiaWorld washed up on the banks of the river. 

And this would make sense - sort of an internal security force.

Ah, and that would be why they could ignore Maeve's commands. Makes sense.  And maybe why in last season when they attacked Lawrence's gang young William was able to escape. 

17 minutes ago, The Companion said:

Something about Clem is just so sad. I think it is because the actress does such a good job with the vacant look. I would love to see her get her own arc at some point. 

I feel so bad for Clementine. She still has no choice, Dolores is using her as much as the guests did.