Lost In Transition - General Discussion

[GoldaVining]

So many feelings.... this show has really brought up baggage for me.

I was terrified for Leslie and Stacey when they first showed the party for the grandma at the local grocery coop. Looking around at all the miserable faces in that room did not prepare me for the supportive reaction that came next. I was furious with Leslie's shithead cousin (or whoever he was) for asking about Leslie's penis in front of the entire extended family. What the hell was that? Make Leslie cry and then comfort her, that's great, thanks. It turned out to be good for everybody in the end, but who does that? He was admitting this situation was awkward as hell but immediately starts out basically, "So your penis, what are you doing with that?" Gross.

I loved the grandmas in this episode. Lawren's grandma -- Awwwww. Love her! And Leslie's grandma too. Leslie's uncle was shy, but supportive. I like it.

A poster mentioned this regarding a previous episode, but these women are now dealing with the giant ball of bullshit of what "feminine" should look like. Although I am female by birth, I have always felt like an imposter, like a linebacker in a prom dress. I have never felt the "right kind of female" for the world. I gave up at an early age (like 12) and just refuse to participate in it. I was regularly called a dyke in high school, no doubt because I wore a New York Rangers hockey jersey most days. Ha! My father regularly shamed me, my sister, my mother, and even his own mother and sister for being "stupid females". Anything remotely female or feminine was ridiculed and clearly stated to be of no value. So I have this battle in my brain between what I imagine is my need to look feminine for society (or be called a dyke) or look/act feminine and be shamed and called "stupid female" by my father. No way to win. I refused to participate in the bullshit and found a husband who doesn't even realize that all of this exists in the world. Whatever. I'm glad it is a non-issue in my house because it is pointlessly exhausting.

Example of extreme bullshit: When I was 11, I got in trouble for showing "toe cleavage" in my mary jane church shoes. YES, my insane evangelical christian parents said TOE CLEAVAGE . I was told to go put on white socks and cover up my scandalous toe cleavage. When I was in my 20's, my boyfriend refused to go out to dinner with me unless I painted my toenails or put on closed-toe shoes because a women can't go out in public with bare toenails. I was 118 pounds when we started dating. At 120 pounds, he told me if I hit 125 pounds he would drop me. These are just a couple of examples, folks. There's so much more!

Good luck, ladies!

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

I wonder if Troy's 1st makeover was actually sabotaged by Cindy - the lady who did this last episode did a fantastic job, however he does need to learn to walk more graceful.  I do hope that Stacy finds herself, prefer without the selfish asshole Leslie. Karen is a bitch, felt she went overboard with the ex-wife. I almost feel that Beverly was forced into selling the house because Karen wanted a clean slate and the cash from the sale. Out of all of them, I think Lawren needs the most counseling. Everyone seemed overjoyed with their now being able to present what they have always felt, except her, too me, she still comes across sad. 

[configdotsys]

There was some kind of conversation going on during the "jailbreak on the lawn." Someone said, "Where is she going?" And then a voice said, "She's going on the lawn. She refused to move." I thought Bev may have refused to move her car so bitchface Karen could get out but that was nowhere in the show and it did not appear that Karen's car was blocked in any way. They should have cut that scene it out of the show if they weren't going to explain it.

Bev looked so sad in the house going through that box with her back to the other two assholes. I felt so terribly, genuinely sorry for her. I know she has very likely contributed a great deal to the dysfunction in the home but seeing Karen be just so mean to her pissed me off. 

55 minutes ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

I almost feel that Beverly was forced into selling the house because Karen wanted a clean slate and the cash from the sale. Out of all of them, I think Lawren needs the most counseling. Everyone seemed overjoyed with their now being able to present what they have always felt, except her, too me, she still comes across sad. 

I think you are probably right. Bev could have made the divorce hell for Karen. She could have said it was fraud, demanded alimony, filed that she wanted to keep the house, and more. But she didn't. I don't know if it's because since she abdicated all responsibility for being a grown up in that house with regard to finances and big decisions, she is just clueless or what. She looks so lost. 

[Adiba]

7 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

Ok, Cindy she said she is in her 60s.

Yeah, she was in an abusive marriage (she said in her TLC bio) for around 30 years and with Troy for about 10 years— in her 60s seems right.

5 hours ago, Mollysmom said:

It's not about his look, it's about his mannerisms and the way he moves, the way he carries himself. He totally has extremely  male/masculine mannerisms. I think he is confusing this with wanting to be a cross-dresser. 

I thought this about Troy/Lucy, too. He said he was basically fine with his genitalia and liked that it “worked” regarding sex—so I did wonder if he would want to fully transition. I think Cindy was trying to be OK with Troy cross-dressing and living part-time as Lucy (I’ve seen documentaries where couples had this arrangement)— but I think she’ll have a difficult time if Troy decides to fully transition and live full time as Lucy.

[Teri313]

Maybe I'm confused. Was there something wrong with what NinaH said?

[Jen M]

Omg thank you all for these comments. I haven't laughed this hard in months! I'm screaming the same things at the tv as I'm watching! Freaking hysterical

[PupCal]

9 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

 

Therapy is also required for HRT. I had 3 sessions. It used to be that one had to live like their chosen gender for a year before HRT was approved, but that requirement was abolished just a few years ago. 

It's not always required. A lot of clinics are doing the informed consent model which waives the therapy requirement.

[For Cereals]

On 7/9/2018 at 5:58 PM, princelina said:

people need to be assured that their lawyers will show up in court and not be sitting at home in wet clothes because they're too depressed to dry their penis. 

Okay, because I’m 9, this cracked me up!  Tears running down the sides of my face...

[chickenella]

On 7/9/2018 at 1:22 PM, Thisgirllovespasta said:

On 7/9/2018 at 12:09 AM, PupCal said:

All right TLC that's enough of this music.

I was thinking the same thing. There were also weird camera pan outs while the music was playing. I have never noticed it before on this show. Last night seemed it excessive. 

I also noticed the strange pan outs. Me thinks they were trying for a dramatic finale.

Gosh, there wasn't any happy endings here. Or closure. Even Stacy, the one who I thought was the most accepting to Leslie's transition, even said she didn't know who she was anymore. Jennifer too, I wonder how long her and Lawren will last. It was heartbreaking when she said, "I didn't see any trace of my husband." when seeing Lawren's makeover. How do you deal with that? You married a man then you're married to a woman, quite a change, no longer the same person, but they still are kind of. I don't think I could deal. So many questions.

Speaking of birth certificates, I wonder if Cindy has a copy of Lucy's? I would re-check the birthdate on that one. BTW, I think Lucy is a good looking guy, no matter what age. He actually looks just like a customer at my job, and Cindy speaks exactly like a woman I work with so I enjoyed watching these 2 the most.

I'm glad Bev is away from that controlling asshole finally. I don't recall needing to keep a birth certificate on hand for insurance. Bev, go get another certified, stamped, sealed or whatever birth certificate and be done with the jerk, don't give her another moment of your time. I don't know what to think of the dynamics between her and the twerpy kid, I didn't like that child's attitude, just like the father, I guess. I wish Beverly the best for beginning a new, independent life.

[chickenella]

11 hours ago, Visaman666 said:

Estrogen on it's own has some of those effects, but it is the testosterone blockers, namely, Spirolactone that  kills the male sex drive. Spirolactone is an acne medication, but it is used, off label, to block testosterone.

Several years ago I was put on spirolactone when I first started showings signs of heart failure, it's used as a diuretic (to reduce water retention). As a female is put my sex drive in overdrive! Wow. It also stopped any acne I had, and reduced any unwanted hair on my face, didn't need to pluck or bleach anything at the time. (It's not so bad now, just bleach my stache once a week). I would LOVE to get on that again, but I'm on a cocktail of other heart meds which are working fine so I don't want to upset the apple cart.

[Guest]

On 7/9/2018 at 9:45 AM, TaraS1 said:

My god, how I despise Karen and Cas.  Total assholes, the both of them.  I especially can't stand Cas constantly pontificating to Beverly in that calm, condescending, lecturing tone of a snot-nosed kid who thinks they know everything because Twitter told them so.

Cas is basically a product of Tumblr, which has a big community of trans kids who are high school/college aged. I'm sure the sense of community is great, but as high schoolers are wont to think, every adult is a fucking idiot and they are the most enlightened people in the planet. Combine this with Tumblr/Twitter's overblown moral superiority and victim complex and you get a Cas, although it's rare to find someone willing to be that smug and insufferable in real life when you can't hide behind an avatar. 

On 7/9/2018 at 12:44 AM, Giant Misfit said:

Lawren (a gainfully employed, upper-middle-class attorney): I need bottom surgery but it's very expensive so I probably can't have it right now.

vs.

Leslie (an unemployed, impoverished human sad trombone who lives in a broken down trailer): I need bottom surgery—and I have an appointment for a consultation next month! YAY!

LMAOOO at "impoverished human sad trombone." This is totally true but they both actually have similar issues with extreme emotional regression and wallowing in their own misery. That final shot of Lawren's family showed everyone, including the kids, looking so withdrawn and drained. It seems like Jennifer and the kids hold their breath walking on eggshells every day waiting to see how Lawren's mood is and blame themselves for her depression because she talks about it constantly and uses it to justify ignoring her family. That's exhausting and unfair to them. Teenagers shouldn't have to constantly worry that their middle aged parent is suicidal.

On 7/9/2018 at 2:00 AM, Lizzing said:

The saddest thing on the show was the end, when Stacey said she didn't know who she was any more.  As a non touchy-feely person, even I wanted to give her a hug.

As others have said, Leslie is in a perpetual state of arrested development and always will be. The transition is just another excuse to avoid adult responsibilities and caring for her kids. Her response to everything will always be "but I'm having surgery/recovering/on hormones/depressed/etc.!" Nothing is ever her fault. Stacey is such a loving woman and I'd marry her in a heartbeat. Her proposal made me tear up. Leslie takes her for granted and always expects her to pick up all the slack. I agree with the poster who said she'll always be Stacey's extra child. Sadly, Stacey realized too late that she married a directionless, entitled townie and playing house and having kids soon after high school, while fitting an 18-22-year-old's perception of adulthood, doesn't inherently give your life passion or meaning. On top of that, her wife is an empathy black hole who will always make everything about herself and her struggle.

[Irlandesa]

7 hours ago, GoldaVining said:

I loved the grandmas in this episode. Lawren's grandma -- Awwwww. Love her! And Leslie's grandma too. Leslie's uncle was shy, but supportive. I like it.

Leslie's grandmother was rocking those pronouns. 

2 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Sadly, Stacey realized too late that she married a directionless, entitled townie and playing house and having kids soon after high school, while fitting an 18-22-year-old's perception of adulthood, doesn't inherently give your life passion or meaning. On top of that, her wife is an empathy black hole who will always make everything about herself and her struggle.

Starting around the baby drama, I started to suspect that Stacey likes being the put upon wife very very much. There was just a subtle difference to me in how Jennifer pushed her feelings down in a desperate attempt to save her spouse while Stacey highlighted both how Leslie was done wrong and how that led to the burden she had to bear. 

Cindy grew on me throughout the series.  I felt for her because she really didn't want to loser her partner but I respect that she was trying to lay down firm boundaries that she didn't feel she could accept being with a woman.  She liked men and male parts.  So I don't blame her if she was relieved when Lucy didn't get hormones.  I think I'd like a follow up on them because, while it looks like that moment was the end for them, that didn't seem to be the case when they were on People Live.

That brings me to another point, I'm kind of surprised we didn't get a little "where are they now" update. 

[ChristmasJones]

Given all the limitations that any reality show has, I thought this was a good series. I think it will be very thought-provoking for many people because family members of all ages were involved to some extent or another. From 80 year old grandmothers to toddlers, all of these people were grappling with what it means to have a transgender family member.  Its one thing to have ideas or beliefs about transgender people in the abstract, but its a totally different thing when it involves someone you love, and I think this show did a decent job of portraying that.

Its too bad that the producers have to engage in manipulations, though. I always feel I would be just as interested in these stories without all the fireworks. But I guess they feel they need enough drama to get ratings.

Years ago I thought I would never go on a reality show because I wouldn't want to be filmed. But I've come to realize that the filming isn't really the worst part. Its the editing. They can create almost any story they want with creative editing and paint a picture of your life that doesn't match you very well at all. That is why I can't get my emotions too invested with who is the villain and who is the victim, etc, because I know the producers are manipulating so much behind the scenes. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I didn't sense that anyone was wrongly portrayed by editing.  It seemed to me that they tried to show the cast in the best light possible.  The producer even goes over and hugs Karen in an attempt to comfort her and showcase her humanity, which, I thought was quite generous.  A proper apology, show of remorse and explanation from her was fitting. I didn't appreciate her interrupting that.  And, I thought the drama was pretty real too.  I never felt that the cast was encouraged to act one way or the other.  The only thing that I thought was off was that most of the wives and family members were very accepting of the transitions.  I find that a little hard to swallow. 

[configdotsys]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 The only thing that I thought was off was that most of the wives and family members were very accepting of the transitions.  I find that a little hard to swallow. 

I wondered about this at the ambush of Leslie's friends in the redneck bar. I hate people who say, "If x happened to me, I would/wouldn't react that way...." The truth is, we have no idea how we would react to anything unless we are there, but in tiny town America, with a population that has not been exposed to much in the way of out gay people, trans folks and so on, it's hard to believe the sort of matter of fact way that people took this news. I'm thinking of Leslie's reveal here. 

There is also the matter of people being aware that they are being filmed at these reveals so they might force a reaction that is more camera friendly than if they were throwing back beers sans cameras. There is also the very real possibility that these people knew in advance and were asked to react on camera so the information was not a surprise to the friends/relatives.

I thought Leslie's friend/cousin/whoever that was that was asking the extremely personal questions was rude to do so in front of the family and cameras, but there is another part of me that thinks that was the most authentic reaction that was filmed. That relative also made my gaydar explode. But then I think that the producers probably set up those questions because truthfully, audience members that have never met a trans person or know much about hormones and surgery would be wondering those exact same things. I wondered a lot too and once I heard the doctor talking to Lucy about the effects of beginning hormone therapy, I realized that anyone who believes that trans people are looking to start a new fad, or are doing this for attention, or because they are bored with their lives are just clueless maroons. 

I hope this gets another season with a brand new cast and one that is a bit more varied. If they stick with these people, it will turn into a Teen Mom type situation in which the show loses its original purpose and becomes about drama: Bev trying to find new love, the struggles of raising two young children with minimum wage jobs, etc.

Edited July 11, 2018 by configdotsys
clarity

[Guest]

I just want to add that I want to sue Cindy for personal injury after being forced to hear "I bend over and you go boing." It's been weeks and I haven't been able to scrub that mental image from my head.

It's weird that the producers routinely scolded Bev for refusing to call Karen the right name/pronouns, but let Cindy do the same to Lucy the entire season without comment. I guess it's because Lucy hadn't begun transitioning yet and Bev was purposefully misgendering out of spite? Still, it's obvious that Cindy was trying to compartmentalize Lucy as Troy's hidden drag persona or something, which feels just as harmful. Also, Karen's a raging asshole but I also strongly dislike Bev. She's painfully airheaded and has all the common sense of a 14-year-old girl, and if drunkenly hitting on that 20-something at the end was any indication, she's on the cusp of a very cringey midlife crisis that will probably be coupled with a drinking problem.

Speaking of big age gaps, it still cracks me up that Cindy was so proud of herself for scoring Troy as a hot young boy toy or something. I cannot BELIEVE Lucy is 15 years younger than her. She looks older than Cindy, especially when presenting as male. Chain smoking really fucks you up.

Re: "why didn't this show feature trans men?" maybe they will next season, but to me the answer is obvious: it's just not as titillating. Culture and society is so overinvested in manhood and masculinity that there's a horrified fascination with a "man" willfully "choosing" to become a woman and perform femininity, which we're conditioned to view as weak and embarrassing, but particularly so coming from a masculine subject. So much of this show relied on the humiliation of the cis wives "are you a LESBIAN now? how will sex work? what about the PENISSSSS?!?" because they're effectively losing everything cis straight women are taught to value in their relationship, mainly the idea of a strong, masculine partner. In their minds (or at least Bev and Cindy's), all that's left is a whirlpool of shame. The show seems to be playing both sides in simultaneously trying to humanize their struggle, but also gawk at how they didn't realize, how poorly their wives pass, and how embarrassing it is that they've now fallen into accidental gay relationships as straight women. I know Stacey's bi and by far the most accommodating, but it's still the same spectacle with Leslie.

In contrast, many trans men "start out" as lesbians with long term girlfriends. Some lesbians do break up with their now-boyfriends who decide to transition because they only want to date women, but when you're already in the LGBT community or already bi/attracted to men, acceptance is easier. I'm assuming sex doesn't change much because tons of lesbians use the mythical strap-on all the time lol. And unlike estrogen, going on T (testosterone) sends your libido through the roof, so if anything your sex life is going to massively improve as long as your partner is up for it. The fear factor of having no/"weird"/dick free sex drove about 60% of the drama on this show (90% for Cindy/Lucy). All this to say the producers would probably be scrambling for narrative if the transitions were reversed.

[SevenCostanza]

1 hour ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

She's painfully airheaded and has all the common sense of a 14-year-old girl, and if drunkenly hitting on that 20-something at the end was any indication, she's on the cusp of a very cringey midlife crisis that will probably be coupled with a drinking problem.

That's not a good path she'll turn into another Molly and end up on a future season of 90 Day Fiance.  I hope not for her sake. I hope she finds some inner strength and cuts back on the bar hopping.

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, SevenCostanza said:

That's not a good path she'll turn into another Molly and end up on a future season of 90 Day Fiance.  I hope not for her sake. I hope she finds some inner strength and cuts back on the bar hopping.

lol and one of her is too many! Poor Hailey is going to be Olivia 2.0.

[Specialneedsmom]

23 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

IF there is another season, I would prefer that they have an all new cast.  This time have some transgender men.  When people are on reality shows for too long, it seems that they continue on with issues for questionable reasons.  The cast may do better to move on with their lives.  

Maybe, one episode of where they are now in a couple of years would be good.  I hate to be negative, but, I just can't envision the orginal wives staying in these marriages, if they are not getting their physical needs met and if their spouses are fully living as women. To me, these wives have talked themselves into how it's going to work out, due to financial and societal reasons.  I suspect that Beverly may have had the most realistic response.  She went with her truth and I respect that.  I fear that for the others.......their journey may end similarly.  

I agree on a new cast, but I don’t see how they could do F to M with a straight married couple.  A straight man would be out of there like a bullet if his wife said she was a man.  Lol.  Maybe with a lesbian couple.  I think this showed portrayed transgender people in not a great light.  Karen and Leslie were super self-centered and oblivious to the pain they caused their partners.  Troy and Cindy both need to stop smoking.  Gender doesn’t matter if you get lung cancer.  And my heart broke for Jennifer.  I wonder once these trans women feel comfortable in their new identities if they will want to date men?  And I hope Stacy finds someone who appreciates how truly sweet she is.

[SunnyBeBe]

You have a point about how the husbands might respond if their wife said that she was transgender, but, that would be interesting too.  Of course, would they participate in the program?  Still, I think it would be nice to see both types of transition.  

[configdotsys]

I'm wondering if it's necessary that everyone on the show has to be part of a couple. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who have no one or who depend on siblings/cousins/parents to help them along. I read a book last year called Becoming Nicole about a transgender teen who had surgery and her father was my favorite in the book. He was trying so hard to understand and never for a second doubted Nicole or anything but it was not something he could truly understand.  I guess you'd have to read it but I could feel his struggle. I wonder if there would be room on this show for a grown person and their family's response or is TLC wanting married couples because, as Snarkenthusiast said: 

2 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

The show seems to be playing both sides in simultaneously trying to humanize their struggle, but also gawk at how they didn't realize, how poorly their wives pass, and how embarrassing it is that they've now fallen into accidental gay relationships as straight women.

[Guest]

Just a reminder: The spirit of this show was meant to focus of people in varying stages of gender transition. While Lucy may still present as male, for the sake of discussion, and in adherence to the GLAAD guidelines posted in this forum announcement, the chosen pronoun when discussing Lucy is "she." Please also refrain from speculating whether Lucy is just "in drag." Lucy, from what we have seen on the show, is in transition and however she chooses to present herself is up to her. 

If you have any questions, please PM me. Thanks!

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Just a reminder: The spirit of this show was meant to focus of people in varying stages of gender transition. While Lucy may still present as male, for the sake of discussion, and in adherence to the GLAAD guidelines posted in this forum announcement, the chosen pronoun when discussing Lucy is "she." Please also refrain from speculating whether Lucy is just "in drag." Lucy, from what we have seen on the show, is in transition and however she chooses to present herself is up to her. 

If you have any questions, please PM me. Thanks!

Noted! Apologies if my previous post was hurtful to anyone. To clarify, I wasn't insinuating that I personally think Lucy is "in drag" or any less authentically a woman because of her presentation, just observing that Cindy seems to cope by perceiving her that way and it's strange that the producers let the repeated misnaming/misgendering of Lucy happen when they stood up for Karen and tried to correct Bev on numerous occasions.

[princelina]

12 hours ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I just want to add that I want to sue Cindy for personal injury after being forced to hear "I bend over and you go boing." It's been weeks and I haven't been able to scrub that mental image from my head.

It's weird that the producers routinely scolded Bev for refusing to call Karen the right name/pronouns, but let Cindy do the same to Lucy the entire season without comment. I guess it's because Lucy hadn't begun transitioning yet and Bev was purposefully misgendering out of spite? Still, it's obvious that Cindy was trying to compartmentalize Lucy as Troy's hidden drag persona or something, which feels just as harmful. Also, Karen's a raging asshole but I also strongly dislike Bev. She's painfully airheaded and has all the common sense of a 14-year-old girl, and if drunkenly hitting on that 20-something at the end was any indication, she's on the cusp of a very cringey midlife crisis that will probably be coupled with a drinking problem.

Speaking of big age gaps, it still cracks me up that Cindy was so proud of herself for scoring Troy as a hot young boy toy or something. I cannot BELIEVE Lucy is 15 years younger than her. She looks older than Cindy, especially when presenting as male. Chain smoking really fucks you up.

Re: "why didn't this show feature trans men?" maybe they will next season, but to me the answer is obvious: it's just not as titillating. Culture and society is so overinvested in manhood and masculinity that there's a horrified fascination with a "man" willfully "choosing" to become a woman and perform femininity, which we're conditioned to view as weak and embarrassing, but particularly so coming from a masculine subject. So much of this show relied on the humiliation of the cis wives "are you a LESBIAN now? how will sex work? what about the PENISSSSS?!?" because they're effectively losing everything cis straight women are taught to value in their relationship, mainly the idea of a strong, masculine partner. In their minds (or at least Bev and Cindy's), all that's left is a whirlpool of shame. The show seems to be playing both sides in simultaneously trying to humanize their struggle, but also gawk at how they didn't realize, how poorly their wives pass, and how embarrassing it is that they've now fallen into accidental gay relationships as straight women. I know Stacey's bi and by far the most accommodating, but it's still the same spectacle with Leslie.

In contrast, many trans men "start out" as lesbians with long term girlfriends. Some lesbians do break up with their now-boyfriends who decide to transition because they only want to date women, but when you're already in the LGBT community or already bi/attracted to men, acceptance is easier. I'm assuming sex doesn't change much because tons of lesbians use the mythical strap-on all the time lol. And unlike estrogen, going on T (testosterone) sends your libido through the roof, so if anything your sex life is going to massively improve as long as your partner is up for it. The fear factor of having no/"weird"/dick free sex drove about 60% of the drama on this show (90% for Cindy/Lucy). All this to say the producers would probably be scrambling for narrative if the transitions were reversed.

Hello!  Your post is funny but I would like to respectfully disagree/argue with almost all of it :). But not the first paragraph :D. That's where we definitely coincide.

Bev was purposefully misgendering out of spite

Bev "purposefully misgendering out of spite"?  I would go with Bev calling her husband her husband.  She married a man named AJ and had two children with him.  That is who her husband AJ is to her.  I am happy to call Karen "her" and speak of her as a woman named Karen, but I can guarantee you that if Mr. P decided to come out as transgender, he would forever be known as my husband the "he" when I was talking about him.

(Sidebar comment to anyone who expected a "happy ending" out of this show - maybe some of these families will have one a few years down the road, but I don't see having one now as realistic.  These people entered relationships as men, did things like fathering children and promising forever, and now expect the women they married to be just fine with them deciding they are women?  Sorry, but no.)

Speaking of big age gaps, it still cracks me up that Cindy was so proud of herself for scoring Troy as a hot young boy toy or something. I cannot BELIEVE Lucy is 15 years younger than her.

No argument here either :)

"why didn't this show feature trans men?" maybe they will next season, but to me the answer is obvious: it's just not as titillating. Culture and society is so overinvested in manhood and masculinity that there's a horrified fascination with a "man" willfully "choosing" to become a woman and perform femininity, which we're conditioned to view as weak and embarrassing, but particularly so coming from a masculine subject. So much of this show relied on the humiliation of the cis wives "are you a LESBIAN now? how will sex work? what about the PENISSSSS?!?" because they're effectively losing everything cis straight women are taught to value in their relationship, mainly the idea of a strong, masculine partner. In their minds (or at least Bev and Cindy's), all that's left is a whirlpool of shame.

If you changed every "gender word" in this paragraph to the opposite, your point would remain, and had they featured trans men, your paragraph would stand.  Would men whose wives decided they were men be any different?  Humiliation of the cis husbands - are you GAY now? - they would certainly be losing everything men are taught to value in their relationships with their wives, mainly the idea of a feminine partner.  All that would be left in their minds would also be a whirlpool of shame.

The show seems to be playing both sides in simultaneously trying to humanize their struggle, but also gawk at how they didn't realize, how poorly their wives pass, and how embarrassing it is that they've now fallen into accidental gay relationships as straight women.

This I don't know what to make of - If Mr. P should come out as transgender, would be his inability to "pass" be my biggest concern?  Or my fear that I have accidentally become gay?  Can one accidentally become gay?  I have been told that people are born that way.  Or is that only true unless their heterosexual partner  reveals themselves as transgender?  Then the partner becomes gay regardless of how they were born?  Not trying to be a jerk here - my point is that I think these wives' problems are much deeper that that their partner doesn't present as a beautiful woman on first try, or that they are afraid of people thinking they are lesbians who couldn't do any better.  IMO, those things are the least of their concerns.

In contrast, many trans men "start out" as lesbians with long term girlfriends. Some lesbians do break up with their now-boyfriends who decide to transition because they only want to date women, but when you're already in the LGBT community or already bi/attracted to men, acceptance is easier. I'm assuming sex doesn't change much because tons of lesbians use the mythical strap-on all the time lol. And unlike estrogen, going on T (testosterone) sends your libido through the roof, so if anything your sex life is going to massively improve as long as your partner is up for it.

As a person who doesn't know much, I still think this would make for an interesting show.  Lesbians who only want to date women would offer a perspective that I would find interesting.  Lesbians with partners who take hormones and become sex fiends would probably be as embarrassing as Cindy, but still part of the story.  

The fear factor of having no/"weird"/dick free sex drove about 60% of the drama on this show (90% for Cindy/Lucy). 

I feel like I'm having to stick up for these women when I don't even like them that much - but if we are telling the story of their husbands coming out as transgender, wouldn't this be a huge part of it?  Why would a woman who's been married/in a relationship with a man for years want to suddenly start having weird, dick-free sex with them?  Why is it a negative on her if she doesn't want that?  Even if she decides to live with it because she loves the husband, shouldn't we expect that it will at least be discussed/come up as an issue?  

Again, I am not trying to be argumentative or snark on a fellow poster. I do find this thread both intriguing and frustrating. @SnarkEnthusiast I would be interested to hear your thoughts, and if you are tired of this post - no hard feelings there either :) 

[Muffyn]

I don't see the transgender women as necessarily expecting their wives to stay with them.  Per the show, Lawren was severely depressed (and most likely still depressed given her muted affect) prior to coming out to Jennifer.  Part of the fear she expressed was that her wife would leave.  Troy/Lucy wants Cindy to stay, but has acknowledged that they may not be able to make it work.  Leslie had more of an expectation that Stacy might stay if, as has been stated on social media, Stacy is bisexual.  

The show never said that Bev chose to leave.  I suspect Karen decided that transitioning was a good time to drop Bev too.  They have such a horribly toxic relationship.  They are also at the point where their kids are out of the house.  Many have said how people should wait so they don't hurt their kids.  I know it's tough to think I might say something neutral to good about Karen. but she played her role as husband and father until her kids were grown.  Of course, she played that role horribly, so . . . not the most positive review.  

I know many transgender persons, some who were able to keep their relationships when they transitioned and many who were not.  I think the show did show this transition as being hard on everyone in the family.  If anyone was dealing with major depression, that is also hard on the family.  However, people don't choose depression.  It happens and it is very difficult to deal with.  When someone is stuck in a depressed mindset, I don't expect them to snap out of it or not let it affect the way they are coping with life.  It can be a long way from depressed to okay.  

[Pepper Mostly]

19 hours ago, configdotsys said:

I'm sure there are plenty of folks who have no one or who depend on siblings/cousins/parents to help them along. I read a book last year called Becoming Nicole about a transgender teen who had surgery and her father was my favorite in the book. He was trying so hard to understand and never for a second doubted Nicole or anything but it was not something he could truly understand. 

I loved that book! Nicole's dad was hit with a bolt from the blue and was so honest about his feelings. In the end he was a strong advocate for his daughter and other trans teens. Great story and a great family.

Another great story from the parent of a transgender child is Jon Ralston's wonderful article: https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/child-i-love

[Kroliosis]

On 7/10/2018 at 11:11 AM, Visaman666 said:

 

Therapy is also required for HRT. I had 3 sessions. It used to be that one had to live like their chosen gender for a year before HRT was approved, but that requirement was abolished just a few years ago. 

I think therapy requirements vary by location/state.  My nephew is 19 and transitioning (FtoM) and did not require any therapy in order to get the necessary hormones a year ago.  There was a brief consultation & that was it.  He was also told therapy wasn’t required for top surgery.  He was presenting as a man maybe for a month or two before getting the hormones.  This was in DC. 

[ShaNaeNae]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 3:15 PM, Crystal Cc said:

Does anyone know how to donate to Stacy and Leslie's life? I would like to help this family. 

They have a Go Fund Me, started by Leslie.  I found it on their FB page, Leslie Cook.

It's been driving me crazy all this time trying to figure out who Stacy reminds me of.  While on the OutDaughtered forum, I thought of who it is.  Last fall, TLC had another multiples show on called Hodges Half Dozen.  The mom and Stacy could be sisters.

[DGRGRL]

Let me tell you about Troy and Cindy. Cindy isn't an aerospace engineer; she works for an aerospace company but just orders parts. Second she isn't a working mom. From what I understand all of her kids are grown and out of the house. As for Troy, did you notice he never stated what he does for a living...answer mooch off Cindy.  I haven't seen Cindy in several years and fron all accounts Troy could never hold a job, he would quit and in one case got fired and of course filed a wrongful termination lawsuit. Always borrowed money and manipulated her but she allowed it. So ask yourself how did they hear about auditions for a show that featured transgender unless sneaky lowlife Troy was thinking of a way to make a quick buck? Think about the timing...snowflakes in Colorado, winter time and Troy drops this bomb on her and with 5 months they are a show? He somehow found out, probably sitting home, Cindy's house by the way, he doesn't own crap, while she's at work and he's looking for a reality show so he got the idea that he could insult the transgender community by sharing their pain. Yeah for a buck. Nice truck Troy by the way, who paid for it?  The Cindy in the show is the Cindy I remember, pretty spineless and always the victim and Troy capitalizes on it. I am disappointed she put herself out there in the cheat scheme and buying into Troy's BS. And the whole sex craze thing turned my stomach. I am relieved I left the company and not having to be around her, lost any amount of respect for her. And as for her friend? Her name is Wanda, yes another moocher that can't get her act together. 

[AVM]

On 7/9/2018 at 12:58 AM, PupCal said:

What kind of insurance needs your birth certificate anyway?

Proof of identity, citizenship and age

First, your health insurance premiums will be determined in part based on your age and zip code of residence, so proof of both your date of birth and current address will help providers calculate your potential rates according to the health plan you choose.

Most insurers will just need one that displays your date of birth and identity, plus another certifying your citizenship, or a document that proves both (like a passport):

Current driver’s license or photo ID. If you don’t have a driver’s license, an official photo ID will do for insurance carriers; if not from the Department of Motor Vehicles, an ID card from a federal, state or government agency, or a school ID card also qualifies.

Your birth certificate (U.S. or overseas) or proof of adoption records

A current passport is another way to verify your ID, U.S. citizenship and your age in one document.

Other optional documents, like marriage records, proof of military service, and official birth records from a hospital or doctor

You’ll need to provide some of the above documentation (like marriage or birth certificates, or adoption records) to prove the number of dependents in your household if you’re shopping for family coverage. i would not trust Karen with my last nights newspaper..

[configdotsys]

1 hour ago, AVM said:

Proof of identity, citizenship and age

First, your health insurance premiums will be determined in part based on your age and zip code of residence, so proof of both your date of birth and current address will help providers calculate your potential rates according to the health plan you choose.

They already had insurance so that ship sailed. When you are applying for a policy, driver's license, marriage license, etc. a BC may be required to proof of identity, but once that documentation is provided and the policy written, it's no longer needed unless you close out that policy and get a new one.

Karen was an asshole: "Do you want insurance or a birth certificate." Fuck you. That BC is her property. He made it sound like the law requires that the BC remain in his possession or something. Looked like a total power move to me.

If they are divorcing, what insurance is he talking about anyway? Their kids are over 18 and I don't think you can insure your divorced spouse on your work plan but I don't know. Any insurance people here that can clarify? Wouldn't the divorce decree provide a clean break of everything since there are no minor children involved?

Edited July 13, 2018 by configdotsys

[AVM]

8 minutes ago, configdotsys said:

They already had insurance so that ship sailed. When you are applying for a policy, driver's license, marriage license, etc. a BC may be required to proof of identity, but once that documentation is provided and the policy written, it's no longer needed unless you close out that policy and get a new one.

Karen was an asshole: "Do you want insurance or a birth certificate." Fuck you. That BC is her property. He made it sound like the law requires that the BC remain in his possession or something. Looked like a total power move to me.

If they are divorcing, what insurance is he talking about anyway? Their kids are over 18 and I don't think you can insure your divorced spouse on your work plan but I don't know. Any insurance people here that can clarify? Wouldn't the divorce decree provide a clean break of everything since there are no minor children involved?

"Wouldn't the divorce decree provide a clean break of everything since there are no minor children involved?" Both their children are under 26 years of age and can remain on the parents insurance plans, until that age is reached.

[AZChristian]

Beverly may qualify to be kept on via COBRA, but that's only for 3 years.  She needs to get a good job with a company that provides her with her own insurance.  Mostly, she needs to have NO need to communicate with her former husband.

[configdotsys]

1 hour ago, AVM said:

"Wouldn't the divorce decree provide a clean break of everything since there are no minor children involved?" Both their children are under 26 years of age and can remain on the parents insurance plans, until that age is reached.

My point was about Beverly and why Karen needs to have in her possession Bev's birth certificate if they 1) have had insurance all these years, and 2) divorcing. Hard to believe Karen will be providing insurance for Bev after the divorce. I'm not even sure she can provide it to her if divorced. There's also the obvious: give Beverly her BC which is her property and request it if at some future date it's needed to secure insurance. The kids are another matter entirely and if on Karen's plan, that's fine. Nothing was mentioned about the kids' BCs. 

Edited to add: Not snarking on you at all @AVM. I was just very curious about this whole insurance thing.

Bev is definitely like a helpless child, but I just cannot stand Karen and think she was just being a total bitch here. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by configdotsys
Clarification.

[Adiba]

Why couldn’t Karen have told Bev that she (Karen) only needed the BC temporarily for the insurance company and would return it once it was no longer needed? I really didn’t  understand Karen’s anger and obstinacy in this situation. I believe much of Karen’s anger is misdirected at Bev. 

I do realize that being transgender and the accompanying processes involved are not easy. However, Bev didn’t cause Karen to be transgender nor did she create a society that makes coming out and transitioning difficult—she herself is a product of said society. Karen made a choice to marry Bev and have children with her.

Yes, Bev needs to figure things out for herself, but that will be an ongoing process—not one that happens overnight. I hope Bev herself does not fall into a depression or rely on booze to numb the pain she is feeling. She seems as if she is ready to crack, imo.

[Guest]

@princelina I actually agree with all your rebuttal points except the Bev pronoun issue, but YMMV. ;) All of your scenarios would be interesting! I guess it's more accurate to say the show relies on heteronormativity and how transitioning impacts that relationship model. In this particular incarnation though, because women are the cis partners, I feel like there's much more pressure on them to be accommodating, whereas if cis straight dudes had wives transitioning to husbands, they'd be expected to bolt from the first ep.

[Jeanne222]

I am finding this show most interesting.  I thought I would watch just one episode but am hooked on these families going through transition.

[OrchidThief]

Oh for heaven's sake, just order replacement BC and SS card and stop wasting time on the drama.

[Teri313]

Why does Karen HAVE to have a copy of Bev's birth certificate because of insurance? I've never heard of anything like that. Then Karen tries to make Beverly feel stupid for not understanding that. And THEN gets mad at Bev and blames her for making Karen look bad. I don't get it. I do believe that Karen is controlling, and is now trying to turn things around and say that Bev always "threw" the responsibility for finances and discipline in Karen's lap. They are two completely different people, and people like Karen wouldn't feel comfortable NOT being in control of those things - especially finances. I think Karen is trying to get some sympathy and rewrite history. I also think that Cass needs to stay out of the parents' relationship/breakup.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Teri313

[ChristmasJones]

On 7/12/2018 at 5:42 PM, DGRGRL said:

Let me tell you about Troy and Cindy. Cindy isn't an aerospace engineer; she works for an aerospace company but just orders parts. Second she isn't a working mom. From what I understand all of her kids are grown and out of the house. As for Troy, did you notice he never stated what he does for a living...answer mooch off Cindy.  I haven't seen Cindy in several years and fron all accounts Troy could never hold a job, he would quit and in one case got fired and of course filed a wrongful termination lawsuit. Always borrowed money and manipulated her but she allowed it. So ask yourself how did they hear about auditions for a show that featured transgender unless sneaky lowlife Troy was thinking of a way to make a quick buck? Think about the timing...snowflakes in Colorado, winter time and Troy drops this bomb on her and with 5 months they are a show? He somehow found out, probably sitting home, Cindy's house by the way, he doesn't own crap, while she's at work and he's looking for a reality show so he got the idea that he could insult the transgender community by sharing their pain. Yeah for a buck. Nice truck Troy by the way, who paid for it?  The Cindy in the show is the Cindy I remember, pretty spineless and always the victim and Troy capitalizes on it. I am disappointed she put herself out there in the cheat scheme and buying into Troy's BS. And the whole sex craze thing turned my stomach. I am relieved I left the company and not having to be around her, lost any amount of respect for her. And as for her friend? Her name is Wanda, yes another moocher that can't get her act together. 

Just to clarify- you are a former co-worker of Cindy's?  Where did you hear about Troy? Was that directly from Cindy, or office gossip?  Just curious!

[KitKat58]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:07 PM, KBrownie said:

WTF!?  

Just give Beverly her fucking birth certificate for Christ's sake!  Who is Karen to hold on to someone else's birth certificate and tell Karen that she can just go get another one?  It doesn't belong to you.

And STFU Cas.  "You can just get another one.  It's not that hard."  It's so obvious that Cas is just using this to get back at Beverly.  Neither you or your father make those transitioning very empathetic as you both come off as selfish, passive-aggressive, narcissists.

I couldn't agree with you more! It is all about control on Karen's part. Ex Marine and a motorcycle buff explains quite a bit. I was married to a man that was controlling, and I eventually kicked him to the curb and just let Karma take over from there.

[DGRGRL]

Don't feel bad for Troy and Cindy, it was a scheme concocted by him to make a buck. I used to work with Cindy several years ago and all she did was complain that Troy couldn't keep a job and she had to pay everything. She bailed him out of credit card debt and he constantly borrowed money. She owns the house they live in and pays no rent, just sits home surfing the internet looking for a way to make money without actually getting a job, well he found one.  I heard she said she is an aerospace engineer, uh no. She works in the aerospace industry but by no means is she an engineer. I didn't watch many episodes but the ones I saw, I could see the BS from both of them. I can almost guarantee Troy isn't transsexual, not even a cross dresser. He has that persuasive personality that can manipulate just about anyone, mostly Cindy whom went from one abusive relationship to another. Troy just has a different method. I am taken back Cindy is that stupid and selfish to fall for it and embarrass her children and grandchildren. Not to mention making her coworkers uncomfortable with her proclamation how much she loves sex and all kinds of wieners. So much for mentoship. I was told by people who still work with her they were told by managements to respect her privacy. Seriously? What price for respect and dignity, I guess taking advantage of a painful situation true transgenders experience and  capitalize their pain for a buck. Shameful. 

[configdotsys]

On 7/13/2018 at 1:59 PM, OrchidThief said:

Oh for heaven's sake, just order replacement BC and SS card and stop wasting time on the drama.

Or, to Karen: Oh for heaven's sake, just give Beverly her BC and SS card and stop wasting time on the drama.

Bev is something of a helpless child, which I agree is completely her fault. She probably has no clue how to obtain basic documents or anything because she left all of that to Karen during the course of the marriage. Couple that with Karen's coming out as trans, the dissolution of their marriage, the cruel way Karen and her kids treat her, having to pack and move and divide property while being hovered over and almost gleefully pecked at, and you end up with someone on the precipice of collapse. Something as small as a birth certificate could be the thing that makes her finally crack under it all. Like others have said, I hope she does not take daily refuge in a bar. 

[SunnyBeBe]

10 hours ago, DGRGRL said:

Don't feel bad for Troy and Cindy, it was a scheme concocted by him to make a buck. I used to work with Cindy several years ago and all she did was complain that Troy couldn't keep a job and she had to pay everything. She bailed him out of credit card debt and he constantly borrowed money. She owns the house they live in and pays no rent, just sits home surfing the internet looking for a way to make money without actually getting a job, well he found one.  I heard she said she is an aerospace engineer, uh no. She works in the aerospace industry but by no means is she an engineer. I didn't watch many episodes but the ones I saw, I could see the BS from both of them. I can almost guarantee Troy isn't transsexual, not even a cross dresser. He has that persuasive personality that can manipulate just about anyone, mostly Cindy whom went from one abusive relationship to another. Troy just has a different method. I am taken back Cindy is that stupid and selfish to fall for it and embarrass her children and grandchildren. Not to mention making her coworkers uncomfortable with her proclamation how much she loves sex and all kinds of wieners. So much for mentoship. I was told by people who still work with her they were told by managements to respect her privacy. Seriously? What price for respect and dignity, I guess taking advantage of a painful situation true transgenders experience and  capitalize their pain for a buck. Shameful. 

Isn't it possible, that Lucy just didn't reveal the secret that she was transgender until the show allowed it?  I'm trying to imagine going through all of that if it wasn't true.  It just seems like a lot of emotional investment and time.  

[configdotsys]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Isn't it possible, that Lucy just didn't reveal the secret that she was transgender until the show allowed it?  I'm trying to imagine going through all of that if it wasn't true.  It just seems like a lot of emotional investment and time.  

Yeah. It's hard to believe that Troy (as a guy) decided to drum up this whole thing. Cindy should win an Oscar if she was in on this because I would be floored if she was acting. Also, that horrible woman that was interfering in the early episode, that friend of Cindy, she didn't keep anything down. I would guess she would have said, "Troy's [pre-Lucy] a bum. Who's going to pay for this? Cindy?" or some such thing.

Then again, you just never know what people are willing to do to get attention, money, on TV, whatever. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by configdotsys

[OldButHappy]

On June 4, 2018 at 1:01 PM, mellowjoi said:

 

Millennium, I love you for telling it like it is.  I'll continue to watch if you'll review each episode with the truth about what should have happened.  Your recap was spot on.  

 

Seriously.  I kept thinking, "At what part of the transitioning process do they remove that massive sense of entitlement??"

On July 12, 2018 at 8:42 PM, DGRGRL said:

 

Let me tell you about Troy and Cindy. Cindy isn't an aerospace engineer; she works for an aerospace company but just orders parts. Second she isn't a working mom. From what I understand all of her kids are grown and out of the house. As for Troy, did you notice he never stated what he does for a living...answer mooch off Cindy.  I haven't seen Cindy in several years and fron all accounts Troy could never hold a job, he would quit and in one case got fired and of course filed a wrongful termination lawsuit. Always borrowed money and manipulated her but she allowed it. So ask yourself how did they hear about auditions for a show that featured transgender unless sneaky lowlife Troy was thinking of a way to make a quick buck? Think about the timing...snowflakes in Colorado, winter time and Troy drops this bomb on her and with 5 months they are a show? He somehow found out, probably sitting home, Cindy's house by the way, he doesn't own crap, while she's at work and he's looking for a reality show so he got the idea that he could insult the transgender community by sharing their pain. Yeah for a buck. Nice truck Troy by the way, who paid for it?  The Cindy in the show is the Cindy I remember, pretty spineless and always the victim and Troy capitalizes on it. I am disappointed she put herself out there in the cheat scheme and buying into Troy's BS. And the whole sex craze thing turned my stomach. I am relieved I left the company and not having to be around her, lost any amount of respect for her. And as for her friend? Her name is Wanda, yes another moocher that can't get her act together. 

 

Please forgive me, but, as I read this, I just kept flashing on.....

[Spike]

On 7/9/2018 at 6:51 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

 I can;t imagine that they would give Lucy all those hormones if she is smoking.  That's a lot of hormones.  I thought that it was very dangerous to smoke while taking them.  When, I was on the pill, I was told that smoking was NOT allowed, as it could cause strokes. And, that's what the hormones are, right? Estrogen.  Same hormone, just in larger doses

I thunk part of the reason that Lucy looks way older than 50 is the smoking.

[Spike]

On 7/10/2018 at 10:50 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

Interesting information.  

I don't believe that Lucy is only 50 years old either.  More like 60.  How old you think that Cindy is?  She seemed like she was in that age range too.  Certainly past menopause.  Any way that she would still have that high of a libido?  Hmmm.....she sure seemed jazzed up about it. That's for sure. 

I think Cindy is 65 and part of the reason she is upset is that it is harder to find a man at that age then 13 years earlier when she met Lucy.   Much less a younger one like  we are told Lucy is (the jury is out on that one, may have been a hard life so Lucy just looks like Cindy’s peer).

[Scarlett45]

On 7/20/2018 at 6:15 PM, Spike said:

I think Cindy is 65 and part of the reason she is upset is that it is harder to find a man at that age then 13 years earlier when she met Lucy.   Much less a younger one like  we are told Lucy is (the jury is out on that one, may have been a hard life so Lucy just looks like Cindy’s peer).

The men do die first- it’s not a myth. My grandfather lived to be 89 and outlived his wife by almost 30yrs. You have no idea how many gorgeous widows made him pies around the holidays....around the south side of chicago we went to collect his baked goods!

[Crazy Bird Lady]

On 7/13/2018 at 5:11 PM, Teri313 said:

Why does Karen HAVE to have a copy of Bev's birth certificate because of insurance? I've never heard of anything like that. Then Karen tries to make Beverly feel stupid for not understanding that. And THEN gets mad at Bev and blames her for making Karen look bad. I don't get it. I do believe that Karen is controlling, and is now trying to turn things around and say that Bev always "threw" the responsibility for finances and discipline in Karen's lap. They are two completely different people, and people like Karen wouldn't feel comfortable NOT being in control of those things - especially finances. I think Karen is trying to get some sympathy and rewrite history. I also think that Cass needs to stay out of the parents' relationship/breakup.

Absolutely. Kids do tend to "choose" one or the other when their parents split up, especially when they're in their teens, but Cass was already estranged from Beverly and it seems like now she has completely cut the cord. So sad, especially since Beverly had been trying to reach out to her and show acceptance of her choices. 

 

So sad.

Has this show been canceled??