S06.E20: Shifting Allegiances

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Oliver turns to an old friend to help battle Diaz; Rene is out of the hospital but has a hard time readjusting to life as Wild Dog; Lance discovers something shocking about Black Siren.

 

[KenyaJ]

Are these people shitting us with this?

[mtlchick]

There was a fight.  Someone allegedly won, but it sure as hell wasn't us.  And WAY too much time on the NTA.

[BkWurm1]

I really did enjoy Oliver and Anatoly but the rest was either pointless NTA/DIggle crap or the dumbest plot ever with BS and Quentin to date.   

Reddit is going to love this one.  

3 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Are these people shitting us with this?

This has to be trolling.  Two seconds short of her whole appearance.  I hope EBR enjoyed her time off.  

Edited April 27, 2018 by BkWurm1

[ladylaw99]

1. I was bored

2. Diaz is a Fucking coward, pardon my French

3. Thank you Rene, I am back to swearing like  sailor

4. Trial set up is stupid

[insomniadreams88]

Boring.

Diggle apologizing to the newbies was crap. WTF. 

I honestly don't remember any of the newbies' scenes.

BS is scared of Diaz because ... ? BS hasn't screamed him to death because ... ? 

Lance was being smart for all of 0.2 seconds. I miss the Lance of 618. I liked that Lance. 

Oliver vs. Diaz was a letdown. It took until episode 20 to get to that? Stupid.

I liked Oliver and Anatoly's scenes. 

Having a few seconds of Felicity? Who thought that was a good idea? Ugh.

[apinknightmare]

In the 6 years I've watched this show, I've sat through some really dumb shit. But this is by far the dumbest of it all. FLUSH IMMEDIATELY, SET US FREE

[BunsenBurner]

This is again another bad episode. I really don't think there are any redeeming scenes except for maybe Anatoly. Everyone else was bad. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by BunsenBurner

[statsgirl]

I think this episode was worse than the last one. Because the Diaz/BS episode was just about characters I didn't care about. This episode had characters I do care about (Diggle and Anatoli) acting in terrible ways.

I HATE that Diggle apologized to NTA this episode and all they did was be smug and then try to flip him to their side.

I HATE that Anatoli was so stupid to even think for a minute that Diaz was the better ally.

And I can't believe that the writers think I'm so stupid as to feel sorry for BS, afraid of Diaz, when she's been killing people left, right and centre all season.

[Primal Slayer]

This is a very bittersweet kind of episode. I really enjoyed it, it was very good but  the writers have done a poor job setting everything up which is where the major points have to be taken away. 

Siren seeing Diaz having no qualms about burning people alive has her shook and now she is afraid to go against him even when it comes to Quentin. All good, fine, but what is stopping her from using her Siren Scream and just taking him down? If the writers wanted to take this path with her (which I am totally fine with) then there has to be something more that is stopping her from retaliating. Even a simple line while talking to Quentin "I've thought about screaming his brains out but he has sonic dampeners stopping me" BOOM, I can work with that. Makes sense. But they never give it to us.

The Oliver/Diaz fight was good, I enjoyed it so I am happy that they had Diaz end the fight by being dirty and using all of this as a driving force for Anatoly to shift his allegiances.  Though I a guessing the dude doesn't know that Diaz killed Cayden while he was helpless to do anything? Or does he get a pass since he was willing to sacrifice everyone?

The return of Rene...I was annoyed that they had him suit up so quickly and seeminly forget that his daughter could be an oprhan so I was happy that they went the PTSD angle and had him sit out part of the episode. Though of course they had to us with Zoe telling her father "it's fine, go be a hero, I'll be good with the consequences" 

[Lantern7]

Diaz: Mumble mumble, life ain't fair.

Oliver: He has no honor!!

Anatoly: Yeah, but I'm gonna be rich. That's the plan, at least until something breaks within me, and I sacrifice my life for yours.

Oliver: You read spoiler sites?

Anatoly: Nyet. It's just really obvious.

Quentin: Wait . . . .you're with Diaz?!?

Laurel: Shit, I knew you wouldn't get it after I lost my "COMPLETELY AMORAL" sweater. Also, I'm scared of him.

Rene: I'm back, Hoss!!

(ten minutes later)

Rene: I got shell shock, Hoss!!

Diggle: I'm sorry for the way things broke down.

Curtis: Wow, that's mighty big of you. [Actually, the character wouldn't say it like that. It would take about twenty secondsfor him to spill that out, with "Should I shut up? I should shut up" being implied]

Diggle: You do realize that once Diaz is gone, I'm going to shove those spheres down your throat, right? You shut down my damn arm.

Curtis: Yes, of course. And thank you for not saying-

Diggle: Hey, I'm the rock of this show. That means I have a little more class.

Oliver: I'll break your fuckin' neck!!

Diaz: Knife beats headlock!!!!

Anatoly: Soooooooo conflicted.

Diaz: You know, fuck the whole "loser leaves Star City" thing.

Oliver: That's awfully genero-

Diaz: Nah, I'm gonna have my corrupt cops arrest you, put on a trial in a kangaroo court, and send you to prison while I run Star City all but officially.

Oliver: How have you gotten this far?!?

Diaz: I think the less motivation and personalility a villain has on this show, the further he gets. Damien and Prometheus were awesome compared with me.

Felicity: Holy smokes, I still exist!

William: Me too! Do we still get paid for seven seconds of screentime?

Oh, and Rene's daughter knows about her dad's alter ego, and she's okay with it. "It" being "shooting dudes." Political implications aside, how is that unique? At least use non-lethal ordinance or something, Hoss.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Lantern7

[KenyaJ]

After 220, 320, 420, and 520 being awesome, I'm pissed that this was 620.

I was going to say that the writers have completely lost the plot, but the problem is that this season is all plot, plot, plot, with characters being sacrificed left and right to make the plot happen. And it's not even a good plot, which makes it that much worse.

[JJ928]

The only good part out of the maybe 20 mins that I watched, were Anatoly/Oliver. I ff most of this and I could tell it sucked lol.

[tennisgurl]

Not since Once Upon a Time have I seen characters as truly repugnant as NTA treated as purly sympathetic and likable. Not that these three are as bad as the baddies of Once, but holy crap I have no idea why we`re supposed to give a shit about these three hypocritical, smug, assholes. I hate them, and, worst of all, I hate that they're having Felicity and Diggle apologize to them and act like they were the ones who were in the wrong, while NTA refuse to apologize or take any responsibility for all the awful things they've done, and just sit their smugly. If they found Olivers body dead on the street after being brutally tortured to death, these three fucks would laugh at his corpse and kick it a few times. And Diggle Feleicity would apologize to NTA for his corpse blocking their path to Jitters. 

Fuck all three of them. And fuck this show for trying to drag Diggle down to their level. 

[Angel12d]

My main takeaway from this episode is that the newbies are still THE WORST and they deserve a brutal death. Immediately. Rene continues to be insufferable and smug and refusing to apologize to Diggle made me want to punch him. And watching Diggle apologize to the people who disabled and injured him was infuriating. The fact that they continue to stand there and act like they're owed apologies just makes me hate them even more. I literally can't hate them any more than I do though? Where do I go from here?! I've reached my limit! 

[BkWurm1]

10 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

The only good part out of the maybe 20 mins that I watched, were Anatoly/Oliver. I ff most of this and I could tell it sucked lol.

You really didn't miss anything if you just stuck to scenes with Oliver and Anatoly.  BS is too afraid of Diaz to go against him for no reason given and Quentin is supporting her in her delusion and nothing the NTA and Diggle did will ever affect anything going ahead.  It was all busy work and filler.  

I honestly don't get the thought process behind this episode beyond the Oliver and Anatoly stuff which was really good IMO.  So watchable. 

There was also that one moment where Anatoly points out beating on a man that can't defend himself was cowardly, and Diaz looked pissed and Anatoly just is the man.  No flinching. 

Ugh. I would have hated to have Anatoly go so far they can't bring him back but he would have made an awesome big bad.     

Edited April 27, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Angel12d]

I'm still so confused by the personality transplant that Diggle has had in the last 3 episodes. He doesn't want to work with the newbies either, which okay good. They can choke. But it seems like he just wanted to be the leader and give orders and that's just...yikes. No. I don't like that. He was never like that. Quit making my faves OOC! I'm tired. 

[JJ928]

I saw the last 10 mins or so bc I ran out of ff time, but I muted when the noob or Siren were on.

[JamieLynn832002]

Well, that was painful. The only scenes I even sort of cared about were Oliver and Anatoly. Unless actively rooting for NTA's deaths in all their scenes counts as caring then I cared a lot.

[Angel12d]

Also what is up with Black Siren suddenly being scared of Diaz just because the dude burned a guy alive? THIS DOESN'T EVEN MAKE ANY SENSE. She can just canary cry his brains and be free. I do not understand any of it.

And her claims that she knows men who are evil and full of anger just fall flat because she's been on a murdering spree this season and taken plenty of enjoyment out of that. This redemption of hers?

[catrox14]

I legit read that title as 'Shitting Allegiances".  And thought...that probably works, too.

[tennisgurl]

So, unlike last week, there were a few good things this week. I liked the stuff with Oliver and Anatoly (even if Anatoly really backing a loser like Diaz is ridiculous) and the fact that Oliver got himself caught as a way to talk to Anatoly and try to reason with him. They really work well together, and I thought their dynamic was both funny (Anatoly just opening his beer when he sees his men all knocked out) and affecting (the whole scene in the cell), and it was great just to see an interesting relationship that makes some sense based on previous events. 

I already ranted about NTA (HAAAAAATE), so onto Diaz. I just dont get why we should care about this guy or see him as a threat. This guy is supposed to be so scary? After seeing so many actually scary villains, now we get some random thug with a gun and an overpriced suit? Who needs to cheat to beat Oliver? He isnt "The Dragon" He`s "The Punk Ass Bitch". 

And Black Siren being scared of him is just too stupid for words. She wants him gone? Just drop a building on him! It would take five seconds! And I hate that "redeeming" her comes across as Crazy Quentin having to save poor abused BS now, who is too helpless to save herself. Bitch please! That doesn't make her redeemable, it just takes what was once a somewhat cool villain and makes her a passive plot device. Its so paternalistic and poorly handled. 

I just have no idea why the show wants to spend so much time with such awful characters. So much of this week was spent with awful NTA, who are literally the worst, and Diaz and BS, who are ridiculously uninteresting and not at all as threatening as they should be. They keep telling us that NTA are good guys and we should like them, and that Diaz is scary and we should take him seriously, but they dont SHOW us any of this. What we are being shown is lining up with what we`re being told. Its ridiculous. 

[BunsenBurner]

The CW needs more shows since going to 7 days per week, correct?

Are TPTB doing a backdoor pilot for the Black Canary and her gang?  

It’s the only thing I can come up with to make any sense out of all of this. 

[mxc90]

Diggle never should have apologized to those three assholes. Didn't they turn off the tech in his hand a few episodes back? Digs should have had ARGUS execute them on the spot. 

I was hoping the drone took out the truck and Curtis at the same time. 

Diaz didn't make sure the document was notarized.

Very nice fight scene.

[GHScorpiosRule]

46 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

The only good part out of the maybe 20 mins that I watched, were Anatoly/Oliver. I ff most of this and I could tell it sucked lol.

This is EXACTLY what I did-just watched the Oliver and Anatoly scenes and fast forwarded the rest of the shitastic episode. When I lifted my finger and heard Diggle FUCKING APOLOGIZE, I pressed down again. The smug could still be seen. And that there was no anger or Diggle punching Stutterbark in the face for hacking the chip in his arm and disabling him??!!???????????

So, it’s okay for Diggle and Wild Dong to compartamentalize being Daddy and still vigilante, but not Oliver?!’ GTFO with that BULLSHIT.????

If I didn’t already know this show was renewed, after watching this, I’d think the writers were trying to get the show canceled.

Edited April 27, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[apinknightmare]

I'm so glad that Oliver got himself captured on purpose, and that he and Anatoly know each other well enough that Anatoly recognized what Oliver was doing and gave him a chance, and that Oliver wasn't just being a moron. More of this please, show. Much, much more. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by apinknightmare

[Angel12d]

I was sad Felicity wasn't really in this episode but that moment of her opening her arms to William to comfort him was so sweet. I can't believe they've made me love their cute little Queen family. It's literally the only good thing about this season. 

[UNOSEZ]

I know I'm in the minority but I enjoyed the episode..  Seeing as I don't have a hate-boner for the newbies.. It was actually nice to see teamwork and leadership... And a win for the good guys... Good moments tween Diggle and Rene who always had a nice bond before all this madness... I don't mind diggle apologizing cuz that feels like something he would do ( the situation did get way outta control)  but I wish the writers woulda had them apologize for their part in it as well... Especially Curtis for the Chip thing ( I know why he did it and I know he didn't really wanna go down that road)  but he did and it was a shitty thing to do... Maybe you that's coming... Also liked Zoe being the anti-william who's 2 second appearance to whimper into Felicity 's shoulder made me angry.. She knew what was up wit her padre and she was down...  I liked argue not screwing up and I even having one of them talk.. Dude seemed cool. Don't mind Laurel being petrified of Diaz.. Comic books are filled with villains who have much stronger subordinates who could kill them if they wanted but don't... As always I love anatoly and Ollie.. Those two crazy kids are always entertaining... 

I wish that promo didn't spoil what it spoiled... What jerkoff let that happen... I guess the surprise will be the how of it all.  Looking fwd to next week

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I was sad Felicity wasn't really in this episode but that moment of her opening her arms to William to comfort him was so sweet. I can't believe they've made me love their cute little Queen family. It's literally the only good thing about this season. 

I know. The thing I thought was going to be the absolute worst turned out being the best - probably only because the rest of the show is mostly crap, but still. I'm surprised. 

[Angel12d]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

I know. The thing I thought was going to be the absolute worst turned out being the best - probably only because the rest of the show is mostly crap, but still. I'm surprised. 

They really turned it around. The kid actor still isn't the best but he has improved and he's better in scenes with EBR. I was actually somewhat dreading having William on the show but I think it has worked, mostly, (aside from that episode where he followed Oliver out into the field, that was dumb). They really feel like a solid family unit.

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

They really turned it around. The kid actor still isn't the best but he has improved and he's better in scenes with EBR. I was actually somewhat dreading having William on the show but I think it has worked, mostly, (aside from that episode where he followed Oliver out into the field, that was dumb). They really feel like a solid family unit.

Yeah, his acting is terrible but I don't care because - surprisingly - for most of the season he hasn't been responsible for stupid, unnecessary angst and his presence facilitates some relatively cute stuff. He can stay. 

[Angel12d]

People who can stay:

1. Oliver
2. Felicity
3. William
4. Diggle (he's on thin ice though)

People who can die in a brutal, painful fiery death:

1. Dinah
2. Rene
3. Curtis
4. Mumbling Droning Diaz

[Lantern7]

46 minutes ago, BunsenBurner said:

The CW needs more shows since going to 7 days per week, correct?

Are TPTB doing a backdoor pilot for the Black Canary and her gang?  

It’s the only thing I can come up with to make any sense out of all of this. 

I can't see that. The furthest I see is Curtis joining the Legends, but Gideon can probably whip up spheres like his with no effort. Also, given how Diaz was all "Life ain't fair," I think Curtis' days are numbered. Remember, he is the guy wearing the jacket with "FAIR PLAY" on the sleeves. Just speculation on my part . . . and something for you to hope for. :P

Oh, and another Laurel popped up on The Flash. One more for Quentin to get weird about. Maybe the next big Arrowverse crossover will be "Crisis Of Infinite & Useless Laurels."

Edited April 27, 2018 by Lantern7

[statsgirl]

Anatoli, Quentin and Raisa can also stay.  BS can stay only if 1) she's not redeemed, 2) she's recurring and 3) she stays away from Quentin.

[Lady Calypso]

I have words about NTA, but I'm realizing that I don't want to waste my words on those three. So I'm just going to blow past all of that and talk about the bromance that is Oliver and Anatoly growing again. It's being rekindled, and I couldn't be happier. Anatoly still has a ways to go to make up for what he's done, as Oliver has, but I hope the two can work things out. 

And...that's about it for the positives of the episode. Cool; I guess I'm done with my review.

(Because no way am I getting started on Siren/Diaz/Quentin).

[insomniadreams88]

Didn’t Black Siren mock E1 LL in 510 or something? I could see Earth-X Siren doing the same with the BS who’s scared of Diaz. 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Didn’t Black Siren mock E1 LL in 510 or something? I could see Earth-X Siren doing the same with the BS who’s scared of Diaz. 

WHen didn't she mock E1 LL lol. But her major thing against her is getting killed and she aint ending up in a grave.

[statsgirl]

Let's talk about Diaz's inferiority complex.  He spends his life trying to get to the big boys table just for the sake of getting there. He buys a suit that costs thousands of dollars made of vicuna, which he doesn't even know what it is but he wants it because it's really expensive.  For thirty years, he obsessed about getting revenge on a teenager who bullied him.  He challenges Oliver to a fight, and when he's losing he cheats and stabs him with a knife.

Looks to me like he's suffering from what a friend calls SDS (small dick syndrome).

[Mellowyellow]

I wouldn't even watch this episode for free from alternative sources let alone try to stream Arrow on the app like I did last season. 

I'm sad it's broken our steak of good 20th eps in the season. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, BunsenBurner said:

The CW needs more shows since going to 7 days per week, correct?

Are TPTB doing a backdoor pilot for the Black Canary and her gang?  

It’s the only thing I can come up with to make any sense out of all of this. 

I'd support that.  Wouldn't watch it but I'd root for that.  

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I wouldn't even watch this episode for free from alternative sources let alone try to stream Arrow on the app like I did last season. 

I'm sad it's broken our steak of good 20th eps in the season. 

Yeah, it's very sad.  Even just the streak of Arrow finally getting it's act together and being good toward the end of the season has been broken. 

This show has been spotty as hell all year long.  Without Olicity I probably would have dropped it.  

Edited April 27, 2018 by BkWurm1

[catrox14]

I love that Anatoly was watching baseball. That should have been the first clue that he was gonna turn on Mushmouth.

[catrox14]

Awww, I love "That man was my friend".  I want them to be friends again.  Ollitoly 4 Ever

[BunsenBurner]

All season long the writers and MG/WM have done nothing but try and destroy the original members of Arrow the TV show. Oliver, Felicity, Diggle, Lance and BS/LL have been written terribly. Somehow TPTB/writers thought they were writing NTA, Cayden James and Diaz in a way to make the viewers like NTA and fear the villains. It has failed spectacularly. If they don’t fix this by the end of the season there will be no one left to watch the 7th season. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by BunsenBurner

[Chaser]

Mmmm I would actually say Oliver and Felicity have been written pretty solid (aside from the whole apology bullshit). Diggle was going good but totally imploded. NTA/Lance/BS have been written horribly. All crazy, hypocrisy, psycho. 

We are just being told differently. 

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

I love that Anatoly was watching baseball. That should have been the first clue that he was gonna turn on Mushmouth.

I really hope that by the end of the season Anatoly does totally turn.  Right now he tried but the plan failed.  So he's back to a holding pattern I guess but now I have hope.  I don't get how they can do his redemption so naturally and believable and have just a million swing and a misses with BS. 

I do think by the end of the season she's going to be dubbed "redeemed" while having done almost nothing to deserve it. (and then hopefully go back to E2)  And honestly, if they insist on going there, it should have been done better.  What's so frustrating is this wouldn't even be hard to do without warping Quentin's characterization.  Instead, they just brought on the crazy all year long amping it up every time while BS plays him.  But now she's super duper really scared and daddy is going to save her?  This is embarrassing to everyone involved.  

[lemotomato]

42 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I really hope that by the end of the season Anatoly does totally turn.  Right now he tried but the plan failed.  So he's back to a holding pattern I guess but now I have hope.  I don't get how they can do his redemption so naturally and believable and have just a million swing and a misses with BS. 

I think it's partially because of the actor, but also because the writers enjoy writing for one character and not the other. David Nykl has always made Anatoly likeable, even though he's a ruthless mob boss. It's the opposite case with KC/LL.

[bijoux]

Now I get Dig's decision to leave OTA. ARGUS offers surveilance. That's unlike anything OTA ever did! Mind blown. Got it now. And then you naturally work less with them than with three incompetent assholes. Everything finally makes sense. The least they could have done was throw in some Lyla to counteract this crap.

Is Rene the most powerful villain of all? Because those are some pretty impressive mind bending skills. You expect me to thank you for saving my ass? Bwahaha. But I'll be gracious enough to let you apologize to me for a situation in which I was to blame. Poor Zoe for being stuck with him. I really do like the actress they have playing her. Is she maybe trying to get rid of Rene by pushing him out in the field?

The Quadrant needs better jewellery. That ring is horrible. But I guess it matches his tacky suit. How in God's name does that cost over $100,000? Can someone please be honest with me, is he actually supposed to be the comic relief? Because his muscles are getting bigger? He's Brock from She's All That!

In fairness, I did like Oliver and Anatoly's plot. I'm almost willing to ignore Oliver being able to catch an international flight while one bail in a corrupt city, and then helping Russia's drug trade. Here's hoping that they make up in the next three episodes and Anatoly maybe strikes out on his own since he seems to be done with Bratva. 

Who was the pretty lady at the end of the episode? She looked vaguely familiar.

[KillahBee007]

Welp, I watched this episode and it had WAY too much of the n00bs. WHY IS DIGGLE APOLOGIZING? The Anatoly/Oliver stuff was good. 

Diaz punching Oliver while he’s chained up? Or stabbing Oliver while he had him down?  LMFAO. Oh ok. He’s a bad man. My goodness, I miss Prommy. He’s a terrible villain. 

 

What a boring episode. 

[bijoux]

Not that I want Oliver hurt, but his eyes really are beautiful (tm Brock Hudson) here.

[thuganomics85]

Intentionally or not, this episode really had a "Well, we're airing during premiere night for Avengers: Infinity War, so, really, do we need to put any effort here?"

Outside of the Oliver/Anatoly scenes; which really were great; this episode was a big old mess.  Diaz has truly become a victim of "tell, not show", because every time they (or, really, Black Siren) keep telling me how scary and dangerous he is, I'm just confused.  In what way is he that special?  He doesn't have the intensity and physical presence that Slade had.  He doesn't have the charm and Machiavellian schemes that Malcolm had.  Nor the unpredictability or psychotic presence Chase had.  Or, hell, the fucking magical powers Damien did that could really wreck shit up.  Even freaking Cayden had the presence of someone whose intelligence and computer skills would be hard to top (and, again, being played by freaking Michael Emerson!)  But Diaz?  No, I'm not seeing any of it.  And yet I really feel like this show wants me to think he's the best of the best now.  I honestly really do think that someone in the writer's room is obsessed with Kirk Acevedo and is trying to make him a thing.

But anyway, so basically Diaz and Oliver have a brawl, which even includes Diaz saying lines that clearly are trying to make him this show's version of Bane (ha!  Dream on!), only for Oliver to beat his ass, resorting to Diaz have to cheat like a punk.  Yeah, so scary!  But now his grand plan is to use his power to have Oliver's bail revoked and his trial pushed up.  Because after the "brilliance" of watching Barry in prison on The Flash, why not do the same here?!  But at least this leads to Anatoly realizing he's on the wrong side, so hopefully he'll do something about this soon.  And not die while doing so.

I can even get into the Quentin/Black Siren stuff anymore.  Just stupidity all around here.

But hey: Rene is back!!!!  All is right in the world!  He comes back as his normal cocky, shit-talk Oliver self, and Team Noobs decided to go after Diaz's shipments.  Instead, they get themselves caught in the crossfire and almost taken out, until Diggle and Argus save their sorry asses.  Which leads to Diggle freaking apologizing to a whiny Rene. I give up.  This isn't Diggle.  The real Diggle has been captured, and this is a wimpy, indecisive Clone, who can't think for himself.  But the show tries to make me cry for him as he suffers PTSD or some shit, but I don't care.  I really, really don't care.

Oh, hey, Felicity shows up for a second!  Hi, Felicity!

Seriously, I know they are in different comic book universes, but if Thanos really wants to wipe out half of the population, I know which half he could take from this show.  What a stinker it has become.