S07.E11: All In

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Saul's mission is a go. The clock ticks on the Keane administration.

Promo:

Clip:

[DesertCyclist]

One of the best episodes in quite a while.

[WaltersHair]

I know everyone is probably watching Westworld, but I'm watching this. Didn't buy it. Russia needs to keep out of our government and we need to keep out of theirs (MHO as always).

I'll go only so far, but the Boy Child Computer Nerd in his mother's basement hasn't been true since it was floated back in the 90's (I was there). I've heard it might be true now as millennials can't afford to live on their own or won't. I'll leave room for the near impossibility that one guy's loose lips lead to an impeachment and near Russian civil war. And they're playing fast and loose with time zones here as well. Daytime in both countries?

Was really loving this season too.

[TimWil]

Budapest looks lovely. 

[parandroid]

38 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I'll go only so far, but the Boy Child Computer Nerd in his mother's basement hasn't been true since it was floated back in the 90's (I was there). I've heard it might be true now as millennials can't afford to live on their own or won't. I'll leave room for the near impossibility that one guy's loose lips lead to an impeachment and near Russian civil war. And they're playing fast and loose with time zones here as well. Daytime in both countries?

Well....its more unrealistic than that. People don't disclose classified information in a non-classified setting. Threats like "I'll call the attorney general" will just get laughed at if happening within the confines of a house. And those monitors (presumably doing what Saul and his team had tasked him with), would certainly not be in his house.

But the thing that had me grinding my teeth the most was Carrie's Mission Impossible actions on the balcony. Urgh. Can it get any worse than this? Repeat after me: This show is not 24. Its DNA is about what the intelligence analyst can do rather than what the gun-toting ex / current Navy Seal can do. If you want to see what the Navy Seal can do, there is a show on CBS showing exactly that. The core of the scene should have been the beautifully written confrontation with Carrie and Simone, where Carrie changed the outcome without a gun in hand. The rest of it was action porn.

Oh, and Max having the floor plans for the interior of GRU hq. *eye roll*. What is this - La Femme Nikita? Shame on you Homeland show runners for descending to such drek.

Edited April 23, 2018 by parandroid

[The Bullpen]

Eh, maybe I'm just easy.  I guess I have a soft spot for this show.  The floor plan bugged me more than the balcony stuff -- that certainly was action porn, and I was all about it.  Homeland always has these sorts of finales with some crazy stuff going down.  I found the whole thing massively entertaining.  For me, the biggest annoyance in the episode was Boy Child Computer Nerd and how easily he was scared into spilling the beans.  I agree that that was stupid and unrealistic.

The actress who plays Simone is really beautiful... she looked great in that blonde wig!  I wish her character had more agency, though I suppose deciding to get the hell out of dodge with the Americans was an example of her asserting her free will.  Still a little too "damsel in distress" for my tastes, especially considering she's completely vile.

[scrb]

11 minutes ago, parandroid said:

Well....its more unrealistic than that. People don't disclose classified information in a non-classified setting. Threats like "I'll call the attorney general" will just get laughed at if happening within the confines of a house. And those monitors (presumably doing what Saul and his team had tasked him with), would certainly not be in his house.

But the thing that had me grinding my teeth the most was Carrie's Mission Impossible actions on the balcony. Urgh. Can it get any worse than this? Repeat after me: This show is not 24. Its DNA is about what the intelligence analyst can do rather than what the gun-toting ex / current Navy Seal can do. If you want to see what the Navy Seal can do, there is a show on CBS showing exactly that. The core of the scene should have been the beautifully written confrontation with Carrie and Simone, where Carrie changed the outcome without a gun in hand. The rest of it was action porn.

Oh, and Max having the floor plans for the interior of GRU hq. *eye roll*. What is this - La Femme Nikita? Shame on you Homeland show runners for descending to such drek.

Yeah that was the most preposterous episode I've seen.

First of all, that Keane would okay this mission.  On the surface, the National Security Advisor goes to Moscow to complain that Russians did mean things?

Secondly, so Clint caves that easily.  The woman is trying to bring down the Keane administration and she threatens to go to Keane's Attorney General?  Why would the AG help Paley, who can only call hearings.  He's got no particular pull with the AG.

Third, what Paley's chief of staff did is treason, since the show would have us believe that Keane sanctioned the mission.  In the Cold War days, US intelligence watched the Soviet embassy around the clock.  But she's going to walk up to the Russian ambassador right out in front and blab everything?

Meanwhile the Russian intelligence know Saul, Carrie and pretty much everyone on the plane but they let these men walk in with all those weapons?  And they can run a covert operation in the hotel room with a dumb mosquito net?

They were going to "surprise" the Russians and exfiltrate her out of Russia?

And then when the original plan breaks down, they could bait a Russian general into attacking their intelligence headquarters?  How do they get his money, hackers?  So Saul sanctioned a crime?  To confiscate $300 million from US banks like that takes an act of Congress.  So of course it was illegal but if it was that easy, banks would be losing millions or billions all the time.

Now that the Russian general is going to hand deliver Simone, since he wants his money back, why would Carrie rush in there to try to grab her first?  That makes no sense either.  I can see notOleg killing her, to protect his operation.  But surely the general was going to try to get her first.

I guess in the finale they want to set up a showdown between Carrie and notOleg.  What Hollywood tripe.

 

If they want to try to associate the plot with some geopolitical happenings, they have to make it plausible, yet they have so many instances of implausible actions that none of it resembles the real world,

OK, if Jason Bourne causes chaos in Morocco, the fallout isn't going to be that great.  If Carrie and her band is going to cause chaos in Russia, under the cover of an operation that the president of the US authorized, there's going to be HUGE fallout.

That's why you can't believe any of it.

[Lemons]

41 minutes ago, The Bullpen said:

Eh, maybe I'm just easy.  I guess I have a soft spot for this show.  The floor plan bugged me more than the balcony stuff -- that certainly was action porn, and I was all about it.  Homeland always has these sorts of finales with some crazy stuff going down.  I found the whole thing massively entertaining.  For me, the biggest annoyance in the episode was Boy Child Computer Nerd and how easily he was scared into spilling the beans.  I agree that that was stupid and unrealistic.

That was some awesome Russian action.  Did they shoot the episode in Russia?  

[Tom2008]

Loved the episode. I agree it is one of the best in a long time.

[chocolatine]

11 minutes ago, Lemons said:

That was some awesome Russian action.  Did they shoot the episode in Russia?  

Nope. It was Budapest, Hungary. Didn't look remotely like Moscow, and I laughed at the notion that the palatial villa with enormous infinity pool was supposed to be a "dacha". Dachas are usually rustic country cottages.

This show never films in unsafe locations. They episodes set in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, or Lebanon were all filmed elsewhere.

[TrininisaScorp]

You know what?  I enjoyed it.   I'm glad I had about 1.5 hrs between this show and Westworld b/c Westworld was sublime and I needed to cleanse my palate before Homeland (or any show).    

I loved the series of events in this one and the cool action sequence re: getting Simone.  After all of Ls this season, it is nice to see the start of a win.  Let's see how it plays out!

I get that it was totally preposterous, but it was fun, silly, dramatic TV and I really liked it. 1 more episode! 

[Bannon]

To each their own. To me, there was way, way, way (WAY!) too much enormously preposterous stuff to enjoy the episode, so much that I'm not going to take the time to detail it. The shame of it is that there are elements of a good story here, but the writers don't trust the audience enough to write it without a lot of tired action movie cliches, and contrived bullshit. It's regrettable.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Yeah that was the most preposterous episode I've seen.

First of all, that Keane would okay this mission.  On the surface, the National Security Advisor goes to Moscow to complain that Russians did mean things?

Secondly, so Clint caves that easily.  The woman is trying to bring down the Keane administration and she threatens to go to Keane's Attorney General?  Why would the AG help Paley, who can only call hearings.  He's got no particular pull with the AG.

Third, what Paley's chief of staff did is treason, since the show would have us believe that Keane sanctioned the mission.  In the Cold War days, US intelligence watched the Soviet embassy around the clock.  But she's going to walk up to the Russian ambassador right out in front and blab everything?

Meanwhile the Russian intelligence know Saul, Carrie and pretty much everyone on the plane but they let these men walk in with all those weapons?  And they can run a covert operation in the hotel room with a dumb mosquito net?

They were going to "surprise" the Russians and exfiltrate her out of Russia?

And then when the original plan breaks down, they could bait a Russian general into attacking their intelligence headquarters?  How do they get his money, hackers?  So Saul sanctioned a crime?  To confiscate $300 million from US banks like that takes an act of Congress.  So of course it was illegal but if it was that easy, banks would be losing millions or billions all the time.

Now that the Russian general is going to hand deliver Simone, since he wants his money back, why would Carrie rush in there to try to grab her first?  That makes no sense either.  I can see notOleg killing her, to protect his operation.  But surely the general was going to try to get her first.

I guess in the finale they want to set up a showdown between Carrie and notOleg.  What Hollywood tripe.

 

If they want to try to associate the plot with some geopolitical happenings, they have to make it plausible, yet they have so many instances of implausible actions that none of it resembles the real world,

OK, if Jason Bourne causes chaos in Morocco, the fallout isn't going to be that great.  If Carrie and her band is going to cause chaos in Russia, under the cover of an operation that the president of the US authorized, there's going to be HUGE fallout.

That's why you can't believe any of it.

If you wrote a story that entailed pitting Rusdian oligarchs against one another, with hundreds of millions of dollars at risk, in order for one or both to do the CIA's bidding, that's possibly interesting, but you have to take the time to write the story well; it can't be developed within the confines of one episode.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As I sat down to watch this episode after Westworld, I realized that I don't really care what happens next (I found myself wondering why I was watching this before Killing Eve) but that I'm just here because this is the penultimate episode of the season.

The only interesting part was the Carrie/Simone switcheroo with the wigs.

[Ina123]

I like to just enjoy TV. I suspend disbelief because it's entertainment. Even though I knew Carrie would get her target, I was on the edge of my seat. I really loved this episode. It flew by. But, like I said, I can just sit back and enjoy even with the impossibilities.

[teddysmom]

Best episode of the season.

[preeya]

GMAB: All the "on-line" computer stuff is total bullshit.

Hacking/stealing $300,000,000. from US Banks in the blink of an eye: a total farce.

Three minutes in Russia and they "have eyes" on the entire country and inside protected buildings.

All that in the penultimate episode. I fear what's in store for next week.

Edited April 23, 2018 by preeya

[Pike Ludwell]

26 minutes ago, preeya said:

GMAB: All the "on-line" computer stuff is total bullshit.

Hacking/stealing $300,000,000. from US Banks in the blink of an eye: a total farce.

Three minutes in Russia and the "have eyes" on the entire country and inside protected buildings.

All that in the penultimate episode. I fear what's in store for next week.

With the slow moving drama, they'd been doing ok this season making it not look like "24" again. This week they almost out-"24'd" "24" in terms of preposterous action and technical stuff.

[attica]

Based on her building-climbing skills, I think we may learn that Carrie trained at Treadstone.

[scrb]

2 hours ago, preeya said:

GMAB: All the "on-line" computer stuff is total bullshit.

Hacking/stealing $300,000,000. from US Banks in the blink of an eye: a total farce.

Three minutes in Russia and they "have eyes" on the entire country and inside protected buildings.

All that in the penultimate episode. I fear what's in store for next week.

Yeah they exaggerated what hackers can do.

Hackers have done plenty of damage, as we know from the past couple of years in this country.

And Russia is able to do a lot of damage through online tools, so they wouldn't need to send notOleg into the US to wreak havoc.

Or for that matter, for Carrie to go into Russia to pull off a preposterous covert operation.

But of course this show isn't about hacking, unless when it's convenient.  Carrie is the star of the show, not Max.

[Quark]

Bloody fantastic episode.

Simone looks great in a blond wig ;).

[preeya]

I figured it out. This was episode S07E11.

In gambling 7-11 = craps, thus this piece of CRAP episode.

[Bannon]

I don't recall seeing such deep divisions about the quality of an episode, for any episode thread, for any show, on this site, that I have read. That's interesting to me, and I don't know what to make of it, other than the obvious, that people have very different expectations with regard to television drama.

[WaltersHair]

21 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I don't recall seeing such deep divisions about the quality of an episode, for any episode thread, for any show, on this site, that I have read. That's interesting to me, and I don't know what to make of it, other than the obvious, that people have very different expectations with regard to television drama.

For me, Homeland has always been a show grounded in truth. Last night's plot felt almost wholly contrived. I think there are a finite number of times you can suspend disbelief before the story tips into lala land.

Or, it's a reflection of our times.

[Pike Ludwell]

This is my favorite season of the entire series. I like it because they got away from the whole "24" thing and went 10 episodes with a slow moving drama with good character building and an interesting WH plot. Yes if you have a "thing" about Carrie on medications, or a "thing" about the twists and turns of her face, or a "thing" about the kid plot, then yes, you would not enjoy it. For the final 2 episodes I'm willing to suspend a little disbelief and watch the action unfold.

[Bannon]

19 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

For me, Homeland has always been a show grounded in truth. Last night's plot felt almost wholly contrived. I think there are a finite number of times you can suspend disbelief before the story tips into lala land.

Or, it's a reflection of our times.

Oh, I didn't like the episode at all, and it kind of irritates me, because I do think there are elements of a good story here. Exploiting divisions among divisions within the Russian government, via the personal wealth of the leaders, is an interesting idea. Convincing a Russian intelligence operative that she is more safe in American custody, than living in Russia where so much of the Russian leadership sees her as a potential liability. Yvgeny's speech, outlining 30 years of building Russian resentment towards the foreign policy of the United States, after the Cold War, was a terrific representation of real world attitudes of many in the Russian political elite. The bones of great story telling are here.

In the end, though, these writers just ask me to ignore too many plot developments that simply cannot happen, or to ignore what are, to me,  really tired, boring, cliches. In comedy or fantasy, I really don't ask for anything to be too grounded in reality. In a show like this, however, if the writing just continually asks me to completely ignore complete departures from the real world, it loses me. They may as well just give Carrie the powers of Wonder Woman.

16 minutes ago, riverclown said:

This is my favorite season of the entire series. I like it because they got away from the whole "24" thing and went 10 episodes with a slow moving drama with good character building and an interesting WH plot. Yes if you have a "thing" about Carrie on medications, or a "thing" about the twists and turns of her face, or a "thing" about the kid plot, then yes, you would not enjoy it. For the final 2 episodes I'm willing to suspend a little disbelief and watch the action unfold.

I can't think of any television show where I enjoyed that they had The President of the United States as a recurring character. It always rings false to me, for some reason.

[slowpoked]

Preposterous or not, last night's episode was its most entertaining in awhile. I was truly on the edge of my seat waiting on whether they will get Simone or not. 

Is Paley's COS just a power hungry person, or is she on some conspiracy as well? What did she mean by "this is better for both you and me"? Did she just mean, just by reason of saving face, or is there a greater plan in play?

Max was such a badass directing that mission.

But as much as last night's episode was great, I think the great suspension of disbelief could have been avoided had this season chose to set up the proper storylines correctly, instead of what ended up this season. O'Keefe's storyline could have been done in 2 episodes. Franny could have been dealt with much earlier, or maybe something during the off-season. That hacker dude that went nowhere. If the season chose to set up the Russian interference storyline longer, the development of the trio of Dante, Simone and Yevgeny, more interactions between Saul and his Russian counterparts, more in the government knowing about this, instead of just Paley being hush-hush, etc., etc., this season would have been much better, and it would lead to a better payoff to the episode last night. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by slowpoked

[Bannon]

28 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

Preposterous or not, last night's episode was its most entertaining in awhile. I was truly on the edge of my seat waiting on whether or not they will get Simone or not. 

Is Paley's COS just a power hungry person, or is she on some conspiracy as well? What did she mean by "this is better for both you and me"? Did she just mean, just by reason of saving face, or is there a greater plan in play?

Max was such a badass directing that mission.

But as much as last night's episode was great, I think the great suspension of disbelief could have been avoided had this season chose to set up the proper storylines correctly, instead of what ended up this season. O'Keefe's storyline could have been done in 2 episodes. Franny could have been dealt with much earlier, or maybe something during the off-season. That hacker dude that went nowhere. If the season chose to set up the Russian interference storyline longer, the development of the trio of Dante, Simone and Yevgeny, more interactions between Saul and his Russian counterparts, more in the government office knowing about this, instead of just Paley being hush-hush, etc., etc., this season would have been much better, and it would lead to a better payoff to the episode last night. 

On that we agree. This season should have been much better. Just some pretty dumb writing errors.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Bannon

[snarts]

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

Oh, I didn't like the episode at all, and it kind of irritates me, because I do think there are elements of a good story here. Exploiting divisions among divisions within the Russian government, via the personal wealth of the leaders, is an interesting idea. Convincing a Russian intelligence operative that she is more safe in American custody, than living in Russia where so much of the Russian leadership sees her as a potential liability. Yvgeny's speech, outlining 30 years of building Russian resentment towards the foreign policy of the United States, after the Cold War, was a terrific representation of real world attitudes of many in the Russian political elite. The bones of great story telling are here.

In the end, though, these writers just ask me to ignore too many plot developments that simply cannot happen, or to ignore what are, to me,  really tired, boring, cliches. In comedy or fantasy, I really don't ask for anything to be too grounded in reality. In a show like this, however, if the writing just continually asks me to completely ignore complete departures from the real world, it loses me. They may as well just give Carrie the powers of Wonder Woman.

So much this.  Great plot, lazy writing. Plus, I feel like so much of the first 10 episodes were filler and now they're cramming everything in. I was astounded as I watched the intro last night and heard it was second to last episode of the season. 

[Pike Ludwell]

I wonder if it will end like some other seasons, with things basically wrapped up early on: they get Simone to the U.S. and she clears things up. The senator looks like a fool. The prez gets the veep to resign. She gets the cabinet thing straightened out. Then we follow Carrie as she eats in a restaurant, goes shopping, etc.  for 20 minutes. Then in the last couple minutes something happens so we have an idea what next season will involve.

[crookedjackson44]

I most liked when Keane, told she had been usurped by the VP, stood still, thought about it a while, and then left the Oval Office.  Like a real person who cared about the position would do.

[Pallas]

I'm inclined to think that after Carrie delivers Simone to Washington, Veep/Acting President Warner will save the day. He'll prove himself the patriot, not Paley. Paley had a choice between partisanship and patriotism, and chose the former, along with refusing to out himself as a Useful Idiot. But Warner has been straight with everyone from the get-go. Someone in the executive, legislative or judicial branches needs to step up against the idea of a Russian-sponsored, not-at-all bloodless coup.  Someone has to recognize that it won't stop with success.

HOMELAND has been willing to end seasons with catastrophes -- personal and/or national -- that sometimes exceed whatever miracle Carrie managed to pull out of her hat. But a successful Russian coup in which all but the President, her chief of staff, Saul and Carrie are at least indirectly complicit?

Keane may be every bit as flinty as she needs to be, and a frequent captive of her own insularity. But the forces against her include high-ranking traitors, Senator Pontius Pilate, Alex Jones O'Keefe,  Dar(th) Adal, and as their one sympathetic member, an FBI double agent. I'm with her. And I think Warner will be, too. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

Note to self:  When visiting foreign land under sketchy circumstances, be certain to carry a varied selection of wigs in jacket pocket.

[Milburn Stone]

Just watched it. My pulse is racing and adrenaline is coarsing through my veins.

[scrb]

3 hours ago, riverclown said:

I wonder if it will end like some other seasons, with things basically wrapped up early on: they get Simone to the U.S. and she clears things up. The senator looks like a fool. The prez gets the veep to resign. She gets the cabinet thing straightened out. Then we follow Carrie as she eats in a restaurant, goes shopping, etc.  for 20 minutes. Then in the last couple minutes something happens so we have an idea what next season will involve.

Thing is, getting Simone out is a real long shot.

Even if they succeed, getting out of Russian airspace without being shot down, putting Simone on national (global) TV testifying to the Russian plot would humiliate the US as a whole, maybe escalate to military action.

In season 4, Saul and Carrie took a lot of losses to Tasneem, the ISI agent.  Farah was killed that season as well as the boy that Carrie bedded down.

Yet she waltzed away at the end of that season with a shit-eating grin and there wasn't a damn thing Saul and Carrie could do about it.  You know, Pakistan has nukes and the US wouldn't be able to do much within Pakistan's borders.

But they think they can go into Russia and mess with them and get out?  If Saul and Carrie really wanted to "get" someone in an unfriendly country, you'd think Tasneem would be at the top of that list.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Thing is, getting Simone out is a real long shot.

Even if they succeed, getting out of Russian airspace without being shot down, putting Simone on national (global) TV testifying to the Russian plot would humiliate the US as a whole, maybe escalate to military action.

In season 4, Saul and Carrie took a lot of losses to Tasneem, the ISI agent.  Farah was killed that season as well as the boy that Carrie bedded down.

Yet she waltzed away at the end of that season with a shit-eating grin and there wasn't a damn thing Saul and Carrie could do about it.  You know, Pakistan has nukes and the US wouldn't be able to do much within Pakistan's borders.

But they think they can go into Russia and mess with them and get out?  If Saul and Carrie really wanted to "get" someone in an unfriendly country, you'd think Tasneem would be at the top of that list.

Based on this episode, there is practically nothing which is physically impossible for Saul, Carrie & Co.. Might as well just fly Simone out Neo-Style, like in The Matrix. Heck, just have a magic door, with Washington D.C. on the other side.

[ahpny]

Quote

The actress who plays Simone is really beautiful... she looked great in that blonde wig! 

Quote

Note to self:  When visiting foreign land under sketchy circumstances, be certain to carry a varied selection of wigs in jacket pocket.

Despite the preposterousness of many aspects of the episode, as many have commented, I found it still quite compelling and enjoyable.

But I have to say the spillover between The Americans, which I’m watching pretty much at the same time as this, continues to create weirdness with Oleg/Vasily undermining American security in the respective shows in disparate decades in similarly dubious circumstances. In what I’m sure wasn’t any intentional further parallel to The Americans, now we have bewigged spooks running amok in a critical operation. Wigs have always plays an amusingly significant role on The Americans, and now they’ve reached Homeland well. If we had had a time portal, perhaps Carrie and Elizabeth Jennings (from The Americans) could trade tips on the best wigs and how to wear them.

[slowpoked]

15 hours ago, scrb said:

Thing is, getting Simone out is a real long shot.

Even if they succeed, getting out of Russian airspace without being shot down, putting Simone on national (global) TV testifying to the Russian plot would humiliate the US as a whole, maybe escalate to military action.

In season 4, Saul and Carrie took a lot of losses to Tasneem, the ISI agent.  Farah was killed that season as well as the boy that Carrie bedded down.

Yet she waltzed away at the end of that season with a shit-eating grin and there wasn't a damn thing Saul and Carrie could do about it.  You know, Pakistan has nukes and the US wouldn't be able to do much within Pakistan's borders.

But they think they can go into Russia and mess with them and get out?  If Saul and Carrie really wanted to "get" someone in an unfriendly country, you'd think Tasneem would be at the top of that list.

Yeah, Season 4 was probably the first season that I remember where Homeland took a "loss". I was rooting for them to get something to avenge that embassy ambush, but alas, like real life, you can't win them all. 

[Lady Iris]

I read the comments here yesterday before watching the episode and couldn't wait to see which side I'd fall on with it since most either liked it or not so much. I really enjoyed it.

Would Yevgeny have eventually turned on Simone? I wonder if we'll find out.

Friggin Senator Paley and his person have got to GO! Only worried about their own asses.

Saul, oh Saul. I just love Saul. That scene with the general in the restaurant had me cackling. I rewound it 3 times. Mandy Patinkin just kicks ass. For some reason last night, watching this episode I was acutely reminded of how awesomely he played Inigo Montoya. Ok, fangirl moment over. Thank you.

Edited April 24, 2018 by Lady Iris
Edited to add: forgot to mention my coworker who also watches Homeland did not care for the episode so I thought it was interesting the divide continues.

[roughing it]

On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 12:24 PM, slowpoked said:

Is Paley's COS just a power hungry person, or is she on some conspiracy as well? What did she mean by "this is better for both you and me"? Did she just mean, just by reason of saving face, or is there a greater plan in play?

Isn't she Dante's ex wife?  sorry I get confused sometimes with this show.  I'm guessing she was working with Dante, so yes, in on the conspiracy.  Happened to land the job with Paley, the village useful idiot.

[Pallas]

18 hours ago, roughing it said:

Isn't she Dante's ex wife?  sorry I get confused sometimes with this show.  I'm guessing she was working with Dante, so yes, in on the conspiracy.

No, not Dante's ex-wife, who still works at Treasury. We've seen Paley's assistant before: when we first met Paley, in the restaurant kitchen, when Carrie was setting up the meeting with Dante; then when Paley came back from the situation-room read-in. I'm not certain she's in on the plot, rather than out for herself. Though her being present at critical moments and her leaping out of the car to inform the Russian Ambassador was suspicious, I grant you. 

[roughing it]

Thanks for keeping me straight, Pallas.  I swear I need cliffs notes or something to keep up.

[Lady Iris]

I thought that was Dante's wife too come to think of it.

[acid burn]

8 hours ago, ahpny said:

But I have to say the spillover between The Americans, which I’m watching pretty much at the same time as this, continues to create weirdness with Oleg/Vasily undermining American security in the respective shows in disparate decades in similarly dubious circumstances.

I noticed a couple eps ago that Yevgeny's patronymic is Olegovich. Then I did the math and realized he's too old to be *that* Oleg's son.

6 hours ago, Lady Iris said:

Would Yevgeny have eventually turned on Simone? I wonder if we'll find out.

He did turn on her at the end, right?

Edited April 25, 2018 by acid burn

[preeya]

7 minutes ago, acid burn said:

I noticed a couple eps ago that Yevgeny's patronymic is Olegovich. Then I did the math and realized he's too old to be *that* Oleg's son.

He did turn on her at the end, right?

 

The way I saw it, he was going to kill her.

[acid burn]

1 minute ago, preeya said:

The way I saw it, he was going to kill her.

Yep, me too. He didn't look happy about it at first when he was at the door with the gun, but once he saw she'd escaped he was pissed and ordered that she not make it out of the city.

[slowpoked]

Upon rewatch, something stuck to me that didn't at the first time. When Paley first approached Dar Adal, he said someone leaked the covert ops information to him. Who is that leak? And will we ever find out who that leak is??

There were only very few people who knew about this operation, as Keane have kept it as close to the vest as possible. The only person I can think of at this point is Wellington. I never thought he was in on the conspiracy and I genuinely think he's been at Keane's side, and like most of you, think there's even an unrequited love there. But who else would leak it to Paley? 

[lostmydamnmind]

On 4/23/2018 at 8:38 PM, crookedjackson44 said:

I most liked when Keane, told she had been usurped by the VP, stood still, thought about it a while, and then left the Oval Office.  Like a real person who cared about the position would do.

Right? It's the most human the presbot has ever been.

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Upon rewatch, something stuck to me that didn't at the first time. When Paley first approached Dar Adal, he said someone leaked the covert ops information to him. Who is that leak? And will we ever find out who that leak is??

There were only very few people who knew about this operation, as Keane have kept it as close to the vest as possible. The only person I can think of at this point is Wellington. I never thought he was in on the conspiracy and I genuinely think he's been at Keane's side, and like most of you, think there's even an unrequited love there. But who else would leak it to Paley? 

Unless I'm missing something, the answer is simple. Paley's Chief-of-Staff got the info from Saul-computer-genius-who-lives-in-his-mother's-basement, and she gave it to Paley.

[slowpoked]

39 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Unless I'm missing something, the answer is simple. Paley's Chief-of-Staff got the info from Saul-computer-genius-who-lives-in-his-mother's-basement, and she gave it to Paley.

No, that was after Paley talked to Dar Adal. The first scene of the episode was Paley visiting Dar in prison. Dar led them to the computer guy after telling them "find the Russian experts, there aren't a lot of them". I actually thought Paley and his COS would find Saul's lady friend first, not the computer guy. 

So let me rephrase - Paley didn't know about the covert ops as it is being carried out. That wasn't the information that was leaked to him. He only knew there was a convoy to Russia and the passengers of the plane. He said someone leaked the passenger list to him. Then asked Dar for why there would be a convoy to Russia that includes Carrie and her CIA Kabul team. So who leaked that passenger list?

Edited April 25, 2018 by slowpoked