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S05.E03: Groovy Baby

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How cute is Chelsea's dog??? There was a very brief clip in the season premiere of him running on his leash, pulling Chelsea on a skateboard.

I am not a fan of Patricia.  It seemed kinda weird/rude when she told Cameran that she's throwing her a party but she (Cameran) has no say over the guest list.  I understand not wanting Kathryn in her home, so if that's the case then have the party elsewhere or make it a surprise party.

Also she turned her nose up at Craig's sweet hostess gift.  There was one pillow in there - white with a red crab print - that I would totally have bought for my own home.  So cute!  You go on with your sewing machine Craig!

Are Thomas, Shep, and Jax from VPR trying to invent a new strain of super-gonnorreah?  Condoms, Rose!  Condoms condoms condoms!!

(hey that Golden Girls quote works on two levels bc of Shep's last name lol)

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Since both Cameran and Patricia dissed Craig re his gifts, and his sewing is something Naomie keeps mentioning, I wonder if that’s purely a producer-driven storyline.

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7 hours ago, queenjen said:

lordy lord, this just popped up on a bravo facebook group. JD's legal woes. Seeing Liz is not named, i hope this is all on him. Still, it's apparently her money that has been blown through. Oh gosh, then the very first one, under the Court Agency, seay Ravenal magistrate. Anyone know what this means? is there a courthouse or district named after the Ravenals also?

jd legal.jpg

 

The town of Ravenel is located about a 30 minute drive southwest of downtown Charleston.

 

EntranceSign1.JPG

Edited by ProudMary
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Naomie is a very angry young woman, spoiled and with control issues. She needs remedial lessons on how to grab reality TV screen time without coming off like a lunatic. She was completely unhinged at the baby shower. Kathryn-Lite.

When we see her, Danni is always slumped over with messy eyeliner, like she's depressed or something.

Others have said it here - the producer manipulation and staging is off the charts. There is very little organic behavior left on the show. I miss the original format of long chats and lighthearted moments.

When Elizabeth and JD showed up at the shower, it appeared that production pulled them in at the last minute, put them together, and shoved them through Patricia's door. I wonder why Elizabeth went along with it.

Observations: Thomas' dad said he was "moving out of Faber House." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faber-Ward_House 

In the midst of his stupid ramblings Thomas said a very smart thing (regarding a marriage and more babies). He stated that he was being very careful to protect his children. I think Ashley is a passing flirtation. Thomas wanted "scion babies," which he already has.

Kathryn seems restrained and awkward with her children. I noticed she said "they were all trying to bond."

Whitney is uncomfortable in his own skin and I assume had a bit of an awkward childhood, trying to fit in. Under those tracksuits he is extremely thin.

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20 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

The town of Ravenel is located about a 30 minute drive southwest of downtown Charleston.

 

EntranceSign1.JPG

Dang. It is interesting. It must interresting to have a bridge and a town name with your family name.

Pardon my ignorance, But was the family slaves holders?

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The Ravenels were French Huguenots, and at one time there were a lot of Huguenots in the South Carolina area (I worked for one from another part of SC). The Huguenots fled to America and other places to escape religious persecution. Don't know about Ravenels and slave-owning. The loathsome practice was prevalent in much less wealthy families - small planters for example.

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On 4/21/2018 at 9:39 AM, zoeysmom said:

Naomie is a control freak and that is what control freaks do-they have the house, the car and get to dictate the terms.  Craig had his own car and for all the Craig driving Naomie's folks cars-what did we see maybe four times he was driving the car and mostly with Naomie?  Pretty common for a couple to use one person's nicer car and almost a must on a show about people with money.  With Craig under her roof she had control of being in the scenes being filmed.  Craig also enabled Naomie to earn money while being filmed.  Without Craig there would be no Naomie on Southern Charm.  I think she is very worried that if she can't have the constant interaction with Craig she will be relegated to Jennifer status Season 6.  

Ding, ding, ding - I think we have a winner.

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2 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

In the midst of his stupid ramblings Thomas said a very smart thing (regarding a marriage and more babies). He stated that he was being very careful to protect his children. I think Ashley is a passing flirtation. Thomas wanted "scion babies," which he already has.

If this were true, Ashley would not have met the kids and spent time with them only a couple months into their relationship.

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Understood. But Thomas rushes into relationships and thinks he's in love, then he changes his mind. Plus, I do think he uses Ashley to annoy Kathryn and to puff up his ego.

Behind the scenes he has been careful. For example, he successfully fought for custody and beat back Kathryn's request for child support beyond the state allowance. He paid for housing at first, then stopped doing that when Kathryn was so unstable. He forced controls over Kathryn's time with the children and sobriety evaluations.

It's possible he's looking for a wife/social hostess/home manager/mother whom he can stick out at the plantation with the children and then go about his merry way. Maybe Ashley is down for that. He will extract some kind of rigid, controlling agreement with her, as well as a pre-nup, before he marries her.

Edited by pasdetrois
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3 hours ago, pasdetrois said:

The Ravenels were French Huguenots, and at one time there were a lot of Huguenots in the South Carolina area (I worked for one from another part of SC). The Huguenots fled to America and other places to escape religious persecution. Don't know about Ravenels and slave-owning. The loathsome practice was prevalent in much less wealthy families - small planters for example.

Thanks :)

with all that talk about plantation this, plantation that. It made me wonder..

1 hour ago, pasdetrois said:

Understood. But Thomas rushes into relationships and thinks he's in love, then he changes his mind. Plus, I do think he uses Ashley to annoy Kathryn and to puff up his ego.

Behind the scenes he has been careful. For example, he successfully fought Kathryn's request for child support beyond the state allowance. He paid for housing at first, then stopped doing that when Kathryn was so unstable.

It's possible he's looking for a wife/social hostess/home manager/mother whom he can stick out at the plantation with the children and then go about his merry way. Maybe Ashley is down for that. He will extract some kind of rigid, controlling agreement with her, as well as a pre-nup, before he marries her.

This is so interesting, he is a throwback to the 1950.

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1 hour ago, pasdetrois said:

Understood. But Thomas rushes into relationships and thinks he's in love, then he changes his mind. Plus, I do think he uses Ashley to annoy Kathryn and to puff up his ego.

Behind the scenes he has been careful. For example, he successfully fought Kathryn's request for child support beyond the state allowance. He paid for housing at first, then stopped doing that when Kathryn was so unstable.

It's possible he's looking for a wife/social hostess/home manager/mother whom he can stick out at the plantation with the children and then go about his merry way. Maybe Ashley is down for that. He will extract some kind of rigid, controlling agreement with her, as well as a pre-nup, before he marries her.

IMO, this doesn't reflect his carefulness, it demonstrates him using his considerable wealth & (family) power to clean up his messes.

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4 hours ago, jumper sage said:
  On 4/21/2018 at 6:39 AM, zoeysmom said:

Naomie is a control freak and that is what control freaks do-they have the house, the car and get to dictate the terms.  Craig had his own car and for all the Craig driving Naomie's folks cars-what did we see maybe four times he was driving the car and mostly with Naomie?  

On the show yes, but it happened when they weren't filming on their InstaStories and such he was living there and driving her car not only when he was filming and he was never shown driving a car before she showed up. He was always getting picked up or calling a taxi/uber because he couldn't be bothered to wake up on time to get to work (the show or the slimely lawyer he was working for) and he would always forget his wallet whether it was to go drinking with the boys oe having Cam buy his ass some taco bell. 

Hell even Gizmo which made a lot of people change their mind about Craig because he was in some scenes with him is actually Naomi's parents cat. 

Edited by biakbiak
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I can’t imagine how dumb Ashley is if she thinks having a baby with TRav is going to result in her living the life of luxury. Just look at what it got Katherine. 

When I lived in SC there was a Ravenel elementary school in our district. Guess it was good I opted for private Montessori!

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5 hours ago, biakbiak said:

On the show yes, but it happened when they weren't filming on their InstaStories and such he was living there and driving her car not only when he was filming and he was never shown driving a car before she showed up. He was always getting picked up or calling a taxi/uber because he couldn't be bothered to wake up on time to get to work (the show or the slimely lawyer he was working for) and he would always forget his wallet whether it was to go drinking with the boys oe having Cam buy his ass some taco bell. 

 

He was always driving a Mercury during the first season.  I only know this because I just did a rewatch.

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I find Thomas Ravenel to be repugnant.  If what we see on camera is remotely accurate, then it is clear to me that any attraction women have for him is directly tied to his hip pocket.  IMO, Ashley is simply auditioning for whatever aspirations she may have for her future.  I refuse to believe that any woman with even a modicum of self respect* would actually pursue T Ravenel for anything beyond being an underwriter for those aspirations.  I don't find his interaction or relationship with his children to be endearing, but more like he was their (sometimes) doting Uncle that visits every once-in-a-while.   Whether spawning children with Kathryn was purely accidental or slightly on purpose, he is merely doing what parents are supposed to do; provide for their children.  He is already his father's doppelganger, and it would appear that he is rushing headlong into becoming the apple that didn't fall far enough from that tree.  

*Where Kathryn is concerned, I believe she has some degree of self respect, but I also believe her to be emotionally or mentally deficient, thereby canceling hampering her ability to make good judgements.

Edited by SuprSuprElevated · Reason: 'canceling' was an unfair word
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Kathryn looks so much better at a normal weight.  I was watching the marathon of Bravo and she was once so skinny -- almost sickly skinny.  

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On 4/20/2018 at 8:02 AM, Sun-Bun said:

These young guys not working and just living like they’re on permanent vacation...it seems sad. I do enjoy Austen’s scenes out at bars because I’m also a fellow craft beer snob/expert and I’ve tried every single one of those brews he drinks. If he was sick of being a mere beer rep, maybe he needs to go apprentice at a local brewery and gain some knowledge on the craft if he really is that passionate about the tasting, brewing and marketing of beer. And he should go back to school and get a certification for being a master brewer and/or beer sommelier for a local restaurant if that’s his true passion. But then again, that would take actual WORK...

Spoiler

They filmed a "beer tasting" event for Austen this season. If that will make it to TV, who knows? But I think that's just more for show for his "storyline" rather than something substantive actually happening in real life. 

It's clear he was seduced by Shep's lifestyle - hanging out at bars every night, looking for chicks to bed, not showering until he needs to get out of the house, etc. - but realized that lifestyle cost a LOT of money which he didn't have. So he's hitching his wagon so bad with Bravo. Working like you mentioned above wouldn't give him that kind of lifestyle. His passion is to be like Shep, not to create his own beer. 

By my count, Ashley has proposed to Thomas twice now, and we're only 3 episodes in. Either this is a heavily producer driven manipulation, or if not, who knows how many other times Ashley has proposed to Thomas without a camera. 

Edited by slowpoked
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I just felt like Naomie was upset over Liz's treatment by JD (even Chelsea called him a con artist)- and too young to know not to unleash her anger at JD about it.  I found her brave and passionate-- just young!  When I was 25, I had to learn the hard way that when a married friend complains to you about their spouse, you can support them in the moment, but you have to be very careful about going further.   

Same thing with the Patricia situation-- Naomie doesn't know that in Patricia's world, Patricia's allowed to excommunicate Kathryn, and no one (certainly not a 25 year old) is supposed to say anything about it.  I thought Naomie had major balls and was a good friend for trying to speak to her on Kathryn's behalf.  She is just passionate, and maybe a bit too bold, but her heart seems to be in the right place.    

So I felt proud of her for speaking truth to power and standing up for women mistreated by the likes of JD (who -- phew!-- has quite the trail of lawsuits behind him), Thomas, and Patricia.

I'll take my seat at the team Naomie table (party of one).  :-)

Edited by OhGromit
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4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Kathryn looks so much better at a normal weight.  I was watching the marathon of Bravo and she was once so skinny -- almost sickly skinny.  

Just like the new girlfriend is now. 

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On 4/20/2018 at 8:33 AM, Xcptnl said:

Naomie needs to shut up.  Why is she arguing with Craig when they are no longer together?  She had no say on what he does now.  And what’s up Shep 2.0?  Did he quit his job or get fired?

Seriously.  She annoys the fuck out of me.  Who would want to be with such a screeching harpy?  

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On 4/22/2018 at 2:31 PM, LIMOM said:

Thanks :)

with all that talk about plantation this, plantation that. It made me wonder..

This is so interesting, he is a throwback to the 1950.

Indeed, Thomas was born in 1962 in a very "old South" area and family. He seems very much to want the type of home life he grew up with, dad going out to work (and do his own things) with mother staying home and putting dinner on the table. 

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34 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Indeed, Thomas was born in 1962 in a very "old South" area and family. He seems very much to want the type of home life he grew up with, dad going out to work (and do his own things) with mother staying home and putting dinner on the table. 

I think he’s actually worse. A misogynist and narcissistic. 

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54 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Indeed, Thomas was born in 1962 in a very "old South" area and family. He seems very much to want the type of home life he grew up with, dad going out to work (and do his own things) with mother staying home and putting dinner on the table. 

18 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

I think he’s actually worse. A misogynist and narcissistic. 

 

Except his parents divorced when he was 10 (dad remarried 2 years later) so even his mom couldn't stand his bloviating obnoxious father. I think Thomas and father are a lot alike. They mask their misogyny, narcissism, classism, and bigotry as solid traditional conservative values.

Edited by HunterHunted
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On 4/22/2018 at 10:17 AM, pasdetrois said:

Naomie is a very angry young woman, spoiled and with control issues. She needs remedial lessons on how to grab reality TV screen time without coming off like a lunatic. She was completely unhinged at the baby shower. Kathryn-Lite.

When we see her, Danni is always slumped over with messy eyeliner, like she's depressed or something.

Others have said it here - the producer manipulation and staging is off the charts. There is very little organic behavior left on the show. I miss the original format of long chats and lighthearted moments.

When Elizabeth and JD showed up at the shower, it appeared that production pulled them in at the last minute, put them together, and shoved them through Patricia's door. I wonder why Elizabeth went along with it.

Observations: Thomas' dad said he was "moving out of Faber House." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faber-Ward_House 

In the midst of his stupid ramblings Thomas said a very smart thing (regarding a marriage and more babies). He stated that he was being very careful to protect his children. I think Ashley is a passing flirtation. Thomas wanted "scion babies," which he already has.

Kathryn seems restrained and awkward with her children. I noticed she said "they were all trying to bond."

Whitney is uncomfortable in his own skin and I assume had a bit of an awkward childhood, trying to fit in. Under those tracksuits he is extremely thin.

The house that his father is moving out of (Faber House) is in such deplorable condition.  Don't go by the picture on the wiki site.  Now being renovated.  Think that the city got on Authur's case about the condition of the property.  He is the most horrible 92 year old looking.  Could have been the hard life he has lived.

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17 minutes ago, cameron said:

The house that his father is moving out of (Faber House) is in such deplorable condition.  Don't go by the picture on the wiki site.  Now being renovated.  Think that the city got on Authur's case about the condition of the property.  He is the most horrible 92 year old looking.  Could have been the hard life he has lived.

Or karma. 

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21 hours ago, OhGromit said:

I just felt like Naomie was upset over Liz's treatment by JD (even Chelsea called him a con artist)- and too young to know not to unleash her anger at JD about it.  I found her brave and passionate-- just young!  When I was 25, I had to learn the hard way that when a married friend complains to you about their spouse, you can support them in the moment, but you have to be very careful about going further.   

Same thing with the Patricia situation-- Naomie doesn't know that in Patricia's world, Patricia's allowed to excommunicate Kathryn, and no one (certainly not a 25 year old) is supposed to say anything about it.  I thought Naomie had major balls and was a good friend for trying to speak to her on Kathryn's behalf.  She is just passionate, and maybe a bit too bold, but her heart seems to be in the right place.    

So I felt proud of her for speaking truth to power and standing up for women mistreated by the likes of JD (who -- phew!-- has quite the trail of lawsuits behind him), Thomas, and Patricia.

I'll take my seat at the team Naomie table (party of one).  :-)

I agree with you regarding the support of married friends and bringing up past issues.  However, telling Patricia - - or anyone else - - who they should or should not have in their home is out of line.  That's a completely different thing to me.  Whether anyone likes Patricia or not, she's giving an event in her home and it's not anyone else's place to tell her what she should serve or who she should invite.  Cameron might have gotten away with requesting or suggesting that Kathryn be invited, since it was a shower for her but Naomie?  Who the hell is Naomie?  

I'll go back to my initial post where I said I think Naomie is an asshole.  She should worry about herself and herself alone.  Quit starting shit with JD -- I get that she's friends with Elizabeth but did Elizabeth ask her to be her pit bull?  Shep's birthday party wasn't the time or place.   If she wants Kathryn to be included in a baby shower for Cam, host one.   Quit beating up on Craig.  There's a reason the two broke up.  If he enjoys sewing, let him sew to his heart's content.  It's none of her business anymore.  

I say this as someone who liked Naomie in previous seasons.  But she's truly not coming off well so far this season.

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21 minutes ago, psychoticstate said:

I agree with you regarding the support of married friends and bringing up past issues.  However, telling Patricia - - or anyone else - - who they should or should not have in their home is out of line.  That's a completely different thing to me.  Whether anyone likes Patricia or not, she's giving an event in her home and it's not anyone else's place to tell her what she should serve or who she should invite.  Cameron might have gotten away with requesting or suggesting that Kathryn be invited, since it was a shower for her but Naomie?  Who the hell is Naomie?  

I'll go back to my initial post where I said I think Naomie is an asshole.  She should worry about herself and herself alone.  Quit starting shit with JD -- I get that she's friends with Elizabeth but did Elizabeth ask her to be her pit bull?  Shep's birthday party wasn't the time or place.   If she wants Kathryn to be included in a baby shower for Cam, host one.   Quit beating up on Craig.  There's a reason the two broke up.  If he enjoys sewing, let him sew to his heart's content.  It's none of her business anymore.  

I say this as someone who liked Naomie in previous seasons.  But she's truly not coming off well so far this season.

It might be a case of misery loves company. Naomie just broke up with Craig.

As far as Naomie advocating for Kathryn to Patricia, Good luck with that. 

Of course now all is well. But, I suspect that Patricia did not like being told what to do especially by a young woman and  during a nice event.

She needs to do better however she seems to be coming from a good place, imo.

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On 4/23/2018 at 2:36 PM, OhGromit said:

I just felt like Naomie was upset over Liz's treatment by JD (even Chelsea called him a con artist)- and too young to know not to unleash her anger at JD about it.  I found her brave and passionate-- just young!  When I was 25, I had to learn the hard way that when a married friend complains to you about their spouse, you can support them in the moment, but you have to be very careful about going further.   

Same thing with the Patricia situation-- Naomie doesn't know that in Patricia's world, Patricia's allowed to excommunicate Kathryn, and no one (certainly not a 25 year old) is supposed to say anything about it.  I thought Naomie had major balls and was a good friend for trying to speak to her on Kathryn's behalf.  She is just passionate, and maybe a bit too bold, but her heart seems to be in the right place.    

So I felt proud of her for speaking truth to power and standing up for women mistreated by the likes of JD (who -- phew!-- has quite the trail of lawsuits behind him), Thomas, and Patricia.

I'll take my seat at the team Naomie table (party of one).  :-)

Party of two ?

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Naoimi is making sure to earn her spot on this show moving forward despite her and Craig's breakup. It was ironic that she literally laughed at the idea of Shep giving her relationship advice but here she is single and telling a married man of how many years about how to be better in his relationship. I don't know both sides of the situation and haven't looked into JD's money situation but I wouldn't be surprised if she was totally right about what she said but what she did was a sign of immaturity. When you're dealing with a friend's partner, you need to be careful how you tread, especially when that friend has children with that person. If you want to be a supportive friend, you can remind them of their worth, but you have to draw the line where you say or do anything that would make your friend feel like shit about themselves because they didn't choose the way you think they should have. Their situation is complicated which is why it should have never have been a confrontation in the first place. It was her own fault she felt embarrassed after Liz showed up with JD and she did in fact care more about how it made her look than it did that her friend was seemingly being tricked by JD's scumminess. There's quite a bit I do like about Naoimi but between her talking down to Craig and JD and then approaching Patricia, it is a sign of being a bit controlling but she seems like a smart girl and I do think that's something she may learn with time on how to better navigate socially under those social strains. 

Not surprised that Patricia didn't invite Katheryn but I think it's a pretty shitty thing to throw a party for someone and leave off people on the guest list that you know the guest of honour would want there. What's the point in hosting someone if you're basically saying that your needs are priority? Simply don't do it then. Also, why the hell did Craig add the pieces of the incomplete teddy bear in the bag? Maybe he wanted to make it a funny story but wasn't able to explain it so instead of it being a joke that everyone got to laugh about, everyone just laughed at him instead. 

I don't really care to investigate what exactly JD did. His association with Thomas is enough for me to believe he's a shady character. And no way I believe that Ashley is in this relationship with good intentions. She lures over a man that's on TV, she moves to his hometown soon after meeting him and he's putting up her rent....Thomas you're an idiot. Thomas is too smitten to with women to make good choices. He looks for all of the wrong things and then is surprised that he didn't land the dutiful arm candy trophy wife. But I will say, Ashley looks like she may just be willing to play the part. She also seems desperate as hell with her baby talk so early into things. 

I'm totally fine with no Landon. i hope she isn't making her way into the season down the stretch. 

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On 4/23/2018 at 2:36 PM, OhGromit said:

 

I'll take my seat at the team Naomie table (party of one).  :-)

 I will sit at that table with you! 

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On 4/22/2018 at 8:37 AM, Kiki777 said:

How cute is Chelsea's dog??? There was a very brief clip in the season premiere of him running on his leash, pulling Chelsea on a skateboard.

I am not a fan of Patricia.  It seemed kinda weird/rude when she told Cameran that she's throwing her a party but she (Cameran) has no say over the guest list.  I understand not wanting Kathryn in her home, so if that's the case then have the party elsewhere or make it a surprise party.

Also she turned her nose up at Craig's sweet hostess gift.  There was one pillow in there - white with a red crab print - that I would totally have bought for my own home.  So cute!  You go on with your sewing machine Craig!

Are Thomas, Shep, and Jax from VPR trying to invent a new strain of super-gonnorreah?  Condoms, Rose!  Condoms condoms condoms!!

(hey that Golden Girls quote works on two levels bc of Shep's last name lol)

I can't stand Kathryn but if Cameron wanted her there isn't that her right it's her baby shower. I thought it was rude of Patricia to only invite the people she wanted.   I've only thrown 2 baby showers. One for my sister I asked her  for a list of friends and family she wanted there. She handed me a list of around 100 people lol. I handed back and asked her to cut it down by at least half . I told her she didn't win the lottery she was having a party for her new baby, lol. The second was for a young woman I worked with who didn't seem to have much and not too much family around.  Again, I asked for a list of her friends and family. She only had about 2 people, so I asked if it was ok to invite some of my family and friends  (I promised they gave great gifts). If she had said no, I would have been fine if it was just her grandma and great aunt and couple other women from work. I just wanted her to get as many gifts as possible. 

 I get not wanting to be around Kathryn.  I'd rather do almost anything instead of hanging with Kathryn ...but then again I'm not filming a reality show with her.

Edited by Coffeewinewater
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I really wonder if Thomas hired Ashley to fake being in love with him, suggest they marry and have children - their scenes are beyond sickening.

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4 minutes ago, nexxie said:

I really wonder if Thomas hired Ashley to fake being in love with him, suggest they marry and have children - their scenes are beyond sickening.

Yes, why would a nurse in good professional standing lower herself to his level. 

She is so thin in some photos I’ve seen. Anorexia or a cocaine habit? She’s lost t least 10-15 lbs since filming this. She’s with Thomas, duh. 

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1 hour ago, AuntDahlia said:

 I will sit at that table with you! 

Cheers!  :-) 

2 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

Party of two ?

Party of three now, cheers!  

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I'm sure it's not that Cam really wanted Kathryn there, but that she didn't wish to exclude her. Patricia hosted the party in her her home and has the final say of who she wants to cross her threshold. I'm willing to bet that Cam's family or "real" non-reality show friends threw her other shower/s. Maybe she could invite her then? If someone is hosting something for me, like a shower, I see that as kind of a gift to me, so I wouldn't be insistent on anything, and especially not who the host wants in her home. 

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6 hours ago, zenme said:

I'm sure it's not that Cam really wanted Kathryn there, but that she didn't wish to exclude her. Patricia hosted the party in her her home and has the final say of who she wants to cross her threshold. I'm willing to bet that Cam's family or "real" non-reality show friends threw her other shower/s. Maybe she could invite her then? If someone is hosting something for me, like a shower, I see that as kind of a gift to me, so I wouldn't be insistent on anything, and especially not who the host wants in her home. 

Meh, it could go either ways. 

If Kathryn is paid by scenes, it sucks. If she gets a flat fee, Patricia was right to deny her access to her house as Kathryn was a bit problematic last year.

Since, they are now friendly. It is no longer an issue, imo. And not for nothing, Kathryn is Patricia fifty years or so younger.

so there.

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9 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

Meh, it could go either ways. 

If Kathryn is paid by scenes, it sucks. If she gets a flat fee, Patricia was right to deny her access to her house as Kathryn was a bit problematic last year.

Since, they are now friendly. It is no longer an issue, imo. And not for nothing, Kathryn is Patricia fifty years or so younger.

so there.

Are they really?  I don't keep up with these people off show. It's not like they are houswives or something , lol.

Edited by Coffeewinewater
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15 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Now hang on a moment...

Just how wonderful do you expect a 92-yr old to look?

I've seen 96 year old men recently who look a lot better than him.

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12 hours ago, OhGromit said:

Cheers!  :-) 

Party of three now, cheers!  

Scootch over!! I'm in! Also, I know I'm not the cheese that stands alone in thinking Patricia is not as special as she & some thinks she is. She is mean as fuckall.

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19 minutes ago, DrSparkles said:

Scootch over!! I'm in! Also, I know I'm not the cheese that stands alone in thinking Patricia is not as special as she & some thinks she is. She is mean as fuckall.

Under the guise of “Bless your heart”. 

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3 hours ago, LIMOM said:

And not for nothing, Kathryn is Patricia fifty years or so younger.

I will NEVER believe this line of thought, sorry.

Yes, Patricia herself was a scion and beautiful young woman who did indeed have a child with a wealthy and well-established man also, but that’s where the comparison ends. People seem to forget that Patricia is also well-traveled and extremely educated—-she obtained a B.A. Magna Cum Laude in 1964 and then a master's degree in 1965, both in Art History and Archaeology. She was a lecturer in art history at George Washington University and lived for many years in Georgetown, where she later owned and ran Arcadia, a private art dealership that handled major paintings. She’s also a world-class entertainer and has won numerous awards for her philanthropy and notable works around the community and otherwise.

Unlike Kathryn, she also wasn’t a baby mama; she married three times to three great men and by all accounts her first two divorces were amicable; her final marriage to her now deceased husband was almost like a fairy-tale, at least according to her book.

I love me some Patricia, so it just feels like an insult to see such an admirable lady compared to a trashy baby mama with no job or education.

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@Sun-Bun You make some good points but Patricia herself has stated that Kathryn reminds her of herself many years ago. I agree there is no comparison in the accomplishments department. 

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14 hours ago, Coffeewinewater said:

I can't stand Kathryn but if Cameron wanted her there isn't that her right it's her baby shower. I thought it was rude of Patricia to only invite the people she wanted.   I've only thrown 2 baby showers. One for my sister I asked her  for a list of friends and family she wanted there. She handed me a list of around 100 people lol. I handed back and asked her to cut it down by at least half . I told her she didn't win the lottery she was having a party for her new baby, lol. The second was for a young woman I worked with who didn't seem to have much and not too much family around.  Again, I asked for a list of her friends and family. She only had about 2 people, so I asked if it was ok to invite some of my family and friends  (I promised they gave great gifts). If she had said no, I would have been fine if it was just her grandma and great aunt and couple other women from work. I just wanted her to get as many gifts as possible. 

 I get not wanting to be around Kathryn.  I'd rather do almost anything instead of hanging with Kathryn ...but then again I'm not filming a reality show with her.

I would agree that your approach is would be considered respectful and proper etiquette. If you're hosting an event in honour of someone else, the guest list should be representative of the guest of honour, not the host of the event. I get that Patricia has history with Kathryn and dislikes her. She could have put it aside or even hosted the event somewhere else if she didn't want Kathryn in her home. Even if she refused to have Kathryn there, Patricia could have addressed the situation with Cam in a way that didn't suggest that Cam was being out of turn for even suggesting having a say in the guest list because that wasn't rude of Cam to bring. I do think Cam handled it well upon Patricia's response. She didn't impose, understanding that Patricia was gifting her the party, but she also called Kathryn up to let her know that she may not get the invite and in fairness, Kathryn handled it well too.

However, in fairness to Patricia, Kathryn has spent all of her previous seasons on this show being unable to be in a room with Thomas without going off on him, regardless of setting. She seems be good (so far) but she'll have to earn the trust and respect of her detractors and that means showing consistently mature behaviour. Maybe then Patricia will take notice and give her a chance....or maybe not. Will depend on how Kathryn plays this.

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On 4/20/2018 at 8:14 PM, queenjen said:

I know a lot of commenters have taken Naomi to task for the Liz and JD situation. I look at it and see this younger woman, really young, learning about boundaries. She's got this friend, Liz, who has confided to her girlfriend, Naomi, how bad the marriage is, and her husband is in terrible trouble financially and it's looking self induced, and all those stories she's been ignoring like a Good Wife? It seems they are true. And Naomi has comforted her through the grief and the rage etc. We all know that this is not going to end well. Everyone in a relationship knows how this dynamic goes and has to learn to walk the line between going to their friends for solace and comfort in the teeth of marital issues, but then once the marriage is sweet and dandy again (or not, even if they are just fronting as JD and Liz may be, but it could be because children/family/credit rating who knows) they have this friend who knows all the dirt and is potentially still furious on their behalf.

A lot of people, including Liz, were furious with Naomi for 'taking away Liz's voice and making her look helpless'. I think this was a bit ungracious of Liz, to say btw. Naomi is still very young and she hasn't been married, has no children and her experience with breakups that we've seen, Craig, is that of a 'young' relationship. So. Here's the thing. We're at a stage, with the #metoo movement and light being shone on domestic violence... a lot of women learn not to speak up for exactly the reasons above. Yes. He's treating me terribly RIGHT NOW but that can change and all of this will be forgotten. It gets to the point with a lot of women in dire relationships that they become isolated and they learn not to confide in their friends. It's a really tricky situation.

Women need to support women here. I don't have the recipe for how to do this, and abusive relationships (whether physical/emotional/FINANCIAL etc) are characterised by lots and lots of blow ups, and a cycle of abuse, remorse, forgiveness. In the 'forgiveness' stage, you want the world believing it's all good, because you need to believe it yourself. Supporting someone through this, even if, like Naomi, you feel you can see the writing on the wall, becomes tiring. And repetitive. And you feel unheard. And you go into bat only to have it blow up in your face like it did this episode. Shep and Craig counselled her as much: 'keeping up appearances is important in the South'. (I'm NOT going to comment on the mansplaining in this context). 

Given how it's turned out for Naomi, who do you think Liz can turn to next time there's a crisis in the marriage? That is what occurred to me, watching this young woman learn to STAY OUT of domestics. And this is not a good thing, it seems to me.

She is young and luckily just learned a really important lesson about relationships.  Do not get involved in THEIR issues by taking on the bad spouse.  That said Liz needs to know you do not tell your partners worst traits to your friends and family if there is any chance you will get back together or you want them to not judge the partner.  Unless Liz asked Naomi to intervene I can see her being mad at Naomi for the way she treated JD.  Liz is old enough to be her own mouthpiece and Naomi did take her power away.  I feel that unless the partner is a danger to their friend or their kids, its best to give advice, listen to your friend, be supportive, but do not fight their battles.  If the partner is abusive, report him/her, provide a safe haven for your friend.  Liz may not turn to Naomi now because she cannot trust her.  Naomi cannot fix their relationship and she could have just made it much more contentious.  *Naomi* blew the confidante type relationship she had with Liz because she couldn't control HER emotions and do the best thing for Liz.  Which is support.

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I’ve said it before, but I really agree that Kathryn reminds Patricia a little too much of herself - behind all the high society bullshit, Pat is a gold-digger who uses whatever tools she has to land her rich target. 

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

@Sun-Bun You make some good points but Patricia herself has stated that Kathryn reminds her of herself many years ago. I agree there is no comparison in the accomplishments department. 

Well, she certainly has landed more rich men - and has the rings to prove it!

Edited by nexxie
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Just because Patricia is educated and worked in the art world doesn't mean she isn't a gold-digger. I definitely think she is one.

The reason Cameron didn't object to Kathryn being left off of the guest list is that the shower was solely for the show. I'm sure Cameron's "real" baby showers were held privately, with family and real friends.

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10 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

Just because Patricia is educated and worked in the art world doesn't mean she isn't a gold-digger. I definitely think she is one.

I am not a big fan of Patricia's but I am not sure of this statement.  Given her educational/career background she probably was in a much wealthier dating pool.  She was also quite beautiful and I am sure was considered a good catch in her own right and I am sure many wealthy men pursued her. 

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