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Season 6: A Charming (?) Rey of Sunshine


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I think you're right but that's a weird way to cope with an execution. But like you said, the writers needed something for Rey. I'm on Van Buren side. That's not part of my job so I'm not going. 

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The affair just made Rey into a big(ger) hypocrite, especially given his sanctimonious speech in "Bitter Fruit" about how parents are better off staying together for the sake of the child.

Although...he wasn't exactly wrong about how children in divorced families tend to slip through the cracks because their parents are too busy fighting, cheating starting their new lives, etc, to pay attention to their kids. Especially given how often it happened on this show (Bitter Fruit, Homesick, Dazzled, Panic, Avatar...)

But to be fair that wasn't just because of the divorce itself, it was because the parents were selfish assholes. His Holiness might want to take that factor into consideration.

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Just saw "Jeopardy" for the first time since it aired -- found it On Demand after I missed it in the cycle last week on cable.  And Louis Zorich just died a week or two ago, so I had been paying attention to his cases as they aired -- I had forgotten he was the judge caught in bribery in this episode.  Adam Schiff/Steven Hill was just wonderful in all his scenes in this episode, especially that final phone call. 

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Adam Schiff was always a terrific character and Steven Hill was a brilliant actor who could say a lot with very few words.

Jeopardy was one of Schiff’s best episodes, he was awesome throughout, interesting to see him when he realizes something is wrong after Hines tosses the case, and talking to Hines at the fancy lounge and realizing something was definitely wrong with him, and then interrogating Hines in the police station, the only time we ever saw Adam Schiff at the sqaudroom, and then at the end when he goes from happy that McCoy had put the guy away to melancholy after getting the call that Hines committed suicide and then telling Kincaid to go ahead and pour him his drink.

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No matter what else Curtis did wrong, he'll always have some redemption for what he does at the end of Damaged. He's next to Lennie when they find Kathy's body and when Lennie cries "she was my baby Rey"...What am I gonna do?" Rey says "you're coming home with me tonight. Partner".

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9 hours ago, cfinboston said:

No matter what else Curtis did wrong, he'll always have some redemption for what he does at the end of Damaged. He's next to Lennie when they find Kathy's body and when Lennie cries "she was my baby Rey"...What am I gonna do?" Rey says "you're coming home with me tonight. Partner".

I'll (begrudgingly) agree about Rey there. But 99% of the time, he was so damned pious and set my teeth on edge.

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10 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I'll (begrudgingly) agree about Rey there. But 99% of the time, he was so damned pious and set my teeth on edge.

Me too. I wonder how he wasn't punched and often.  He said so much crap it was hard to believe that people weren't taking swing at him and often.

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BLAH!

Here we go with Sanctimonious and Self-Righteous Rey Curtis.

Why did I think it took awhile before he started with his own beliefs influencing how he did his job?

I really liked that Lennie wasn't too happy with having a new partner.

It sort of makes up for his not having Mike's back in the Movie That Never Happened!

But I'll never forgive Jack for being an asshole about it.

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24 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

BLAH!

Here we go with Sanctimonious and Self-Righteous Rey Curtis.

Why did I think it took awhile before he started with his own beliefs influencing how he did his job?

I really liked that Lennie wasn't too happy with having a new partner.

It sort of makes up for his not having Mike's back in the Movie That Never Happened!

But I'll never forgive Jack for being an asshole about it.

If you are talking about the ending of Pride, Jack was not an asshole. He was just being a realist, Logan’s actions had consequences, and rightfully so. If you are talking about the god awful movie well I don’t know, it’s been ages since I’ve seen that pile of shit and Jack had only one scene in it.

I’ve seen several season 6 episodes lately and yeah Curtis got on my nerves from the start, I was annoyed by how it seemed like every episode women were coming on to him, and yeah he was sanctimonious and self righteous right off the bat. Briscoe’s conversation with Curtis in Curtis’ first episode when he wasn’t happy that his life was the topic of conversation at Curtis’ dinner table was pretty amusing.

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Just now, Xeliou66 said:

If you are talking about the ending of Pride, Jack was not an asshole.

No. I was talking about Jack's attitude in The Movie That Never Happened! Yeah it was only one scene, but everyone from the series, who worked and knew Mike, acted as if he was a dirty cop, who got punished and got off lightly. Which is rich, considering in either this season or maybe it was Season 7, how Lennie kept defending that dirty cop played by Kevin Conway.

And his prediction for Mike getting 2-5 years in Staten Island was waaaay off. Mike was stuck there for 10 years!

I know I'll be nitpicking and snarking while watching this season. One of the better episodes, "Encore" is coming up, and it's always good to see Larry Miller. And the team finally gets Dobson.

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9 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

Anyone watching L&O on WE? I'm getting back into watching the show again and it looks like WE will skip the rest of season 6 after "Hot Pursuit" and jump to season 7 tomorrow. Do they normally skip episodes? 

I was just coming to post about this! I’m bummed because they skipped over “Encore”!!!

Since I just got this network back, I don’t know if this is an exception, because they’ve aired seasons 1-5 without skipping.

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1 hour ago, Arcadiasw said:

Anyone watching L&O on WE? I'm getting back into watching the show again and it looks like WE will skip the rest of season 6 after "Hot Pursuit" and jump to season 7 tomorrow. Do they normally skip episodes? 

I know the channel also shows the entire catalog of Criminal Intent sometimes, and other times, skips episodes. So that may be the same for the Mothership. Its sister channel, Sundance, is airing up to mid S6 next week for CI (out of 10 seasons), and then also circling back to S1. (I know Sundance also shows the Mothership; unsure if it has the entire show like WE touts, but that channel also seems to show a lot of the same Mothership episodes again and again, or so it would appear when I tune in on that channel!) So their rationale, or lack thereof, is very arbitrary.

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1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I was just coming to post about this! I’m bummed because they skipped over “Encore”!!!

Since I just got this network back, I don’t know if this is an exception, because they’ve aired seasons 1-5 without skipping.

I just saw "Coma" last week and was looking forward to "Encore" this week, too. 😭

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On 2/12/2018 at 3:34 AM, Xeliou66 said:

Adam Schiff was always a terrific character and Steven Hill was a brilliant actor who could say a lot with very few words.

Jeopardy was one of Schiff’s best episodes, he was awesome throughout, interesting to see him when he realizes something is wrong after Hines tosses the case, and talking to Hines at the fancy lounge and realizing something was definitely wrong with him, and then interrogating Hines in the police station, the only time we ever saw Adam Schiff at the sqaudroom, and then at the end when he goes from happy that McCoy had put the guy away to melancholy after getting the call that Hines committed suicide and then telling Kincaid to go ahead and pour him his drink.

I liked his commanding presence when he comes into the squadroom. As soon as they see him, everyone quietly leaves. Boss move.

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2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I was just coming to post about this! I’m bummed because they skipped over “Encore”!!!

Since I just got this network back, I don’t know if this is an exception, because they’ve aired seasons 1-5 without skipping.

Sundance, WE and BBC America are all in the same time period.  It looks like they're going to try to shake up which channel shows which episode.  Encore is on BBC America on 12/15 at 6 p.m. Eastern. I know that Sundance and we are sister channels.  I guess BBC Am is too?

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1 minute ago, Door County Cherry said:

Sundance, WE and BBC America are all in the same time period.  It looks like they're going to try to shake up which channel shows which episode.  Encore is on BBC America on 12/15 at 6 p.m. Eastern. I know that Sundance and we are sister channels.  I guess BBC Am is too?

I checked Sundance and they’re airing Season 8. They typically air Seasons 7-20; or 13-20; very rarely do they air the early seasons. Guess I’m doing back to recording all networks.

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1 hour ago, Arcadiasw said:

I liked his commanding presence when he comes into the squadroom. As soon as they see him, everyone quietly leaves. Boss move.

I saw that episode again today and I love that scene - it was the only time Schiff ever visited the police station, and I liked how he just quietly stood in the doorway and without saying anything, let everyone know that he wanted to be alone with the crooked judge. Schiff was great in this episode, he didn’t let his friendship with the judge blind him to what was going on, he met with the judge and then looked in to how he had ruled on past cases and realized something was off. And his scene confronting the judge in the interrogation room was awesome, Schiff was disgusted with him for his corruption.

That is a great episode with a lot of great scenes, and I liked Jack’s argument in court about reinstating the murder charges because justice shouldn’t be sold to the highest bidder. 

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2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

I liked his commanding presence when he comes into the squadroom. As soon as they see him, everyone quietly leaves. Boss move.

BOOM! Icing on the cake was Schiff telling them to turn off the audio so he could talk to Hynes in private.

When I first saw this, my heart nearly broke when I thought Hynes was the same judge in “Indifference”. But it was just the same actor. That judge was Erdheim.

Whew! BBCA still airing this season, but this Wednesday resumes with episode 8, so that’s no too bad. Because I didn’t care for Paranoia, but DAMN! “Humiliation” is a good one (episode 7).

 

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Were they laying the groundwork for Claire's whining ambivalence/conflict with the death penalty in "Savages"?  So that when she went tromping around in "Aftershock" from the squad to visiting her stepfather, to finally deciding to meet Jack in the bar, wouldn't seem like her thoughts on the death penalty came out of nowhere?

First, if you're going to work for the State's Attorney/DA's office/etc., you have to know that the death penalty is something that will be visited and used in those states that have them. Did Claire think because there was a moratorium on it in NY, it was "safe" to work there? What with her arguing with Jack over it. It was annoying.

And ooh! I'd forgotten (in my bitterness) that we got a nice shout out of Mike Logan in "Savages" too! When Lennie was telling Rey about the time he and Mike went after some guy who had already killed two people and when they ran him down, dude didn't shoot them or something. I don't think it was from a previous episode, but it was nice to have a mention of Mike, without shitting on him.

Hell. The only time Mike let his temper get the best of him with a suspect, was in "Confession" when he coerced Max's murderer to confess to killing him. And even then, temper wasn't riding him, but grief. Yet, Rey has attacked, choked suspects, and let parents hit their kids, with no repercussions, except for Van Buren tearing him several assholes.

So I didn't appreciate her line about reminding Lennie what his "former partner's" temper landed him. Technically, that bigoted asshole of a murdering councilman wasn't in custody when Mike punched him in the face. I've always found him doing that out of character. It would make more sense if he'd punched a child molester or abuser, than a bigot, since he himself was an abused kid.

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"Blood Libel" aired yesterday on BBCA.

We get the now standard PSA that's airing on all networks for episodes dealing with racism and bigotry.

Throughout the entire episode, "K***" is used without it being bleeped out, yet at the end, when Jack gets in Hastings' face, "K***" is bleeped out?!

I'm not a fan of "Remand" because, and this is very shallow, we see the return of Talia Balsam. I don't know if she's played the same character in all the episodes she's appeared in.

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I watched "Trophy" during lunch break.

As much as I dislike Diane, she really zeroed in on the fact that Claire and Jack were sleeping together.

And really, Jack getting all butthurt because Claire didn't support him 100% when he is guilty of using the law to not provide exculpatory evidence if he can get away with it. I can't remember if the Rowland case was a made up name or referring to another episode, like "Act of God" was by Diane's defense attorney. I do remember how Jack skated really close to suborning perjury in "Bitter Fruit" when he lead the killer's mother to pretty much lie. Just to use it as leverage to get past the motion to dismiss.

This is an example of while I like Jack, I prefer Ben Stone. Ben didn't cut corners or try to justify his actions when he was playing hardball, like in "Old Friends".

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4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I watched "Trophy" during lunch break.

As much as I dislike Diane, she really zeroed in on the fact that Claire and Jack were sleeping together.

And really, Jack getting all butthurt because Claire didn't support him 100% when he is guilty of using the law to not provide exculpatory evidence if he can get away with it. I can't remember if the Rowland case was a made up name or referring to another episode, like "Act of God" was by Diane's defense attorney. I do remember how Jack skated really close to suborning perjury in "Bitter Fruit" when he lead the killer's mother to pretty much lie. Just to use it as leverage to get past the motion to dismiss.

This is an example of while I like Jack, I prefer Ben Stone. Ben didn't cut corners or try to justify his actions when he was playing hardball, like in "Old Friends".

The Roland case was the case from Competence in season 5, Zach Roland was 1 of the 2 kids who robbed Van Buren at the ATM. McCoy didn’t want to turn over the statement of the mentally challenged girl that Zach knew, I can’t remember what specifically was in the statement, but the defense got wind of it and the judge ordered him to turn it over and said while she wasn’t happy with McCoy she didn’t think it was worthy of sanctions. I really liked the references to both that episode and Act of God, really good continuity, and yeah Jack skirted the line several times and crossed it a couple of times, but overall I love him and he’s my favorite of the DA’s and my favorite character along with Schiff. Stone was great as well and it’s interesting to contrast how Ben and Jack did things.

In Bitter Fruit, I completely agreed with what Jack did, he didn’t do anything illegal, he did put words into the killer’s mother’s mouth, but he never would’ve put her on the stand, he just used it to get the victim’s mom who arranged the whole thing to take a plea. I really hated that worthless bitch of a woman, as Jack said she hated her husband more than she loved her daughter, and as a result her daughter was dead. She got off easy with only 6 years for kidnapping and then murdering an accomplice. That is a great episode. 

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20 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

The Roland case was the case from Competence in season 5,

D'OH!!! Right.

21 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

In Bitter Fruit, I completely agreed with what Jack did, he didn’t do anything illegal, he did put words into the killer’s mother’s mouth, but he never would’ve put her on the stand, he just used it to get the victim’s mom who arranged the whole thing to take a plea.

But he would have been in trouble had the defense decided not to agree to a plea. He couldn't have put her on the stand if they'd gone to trial. There was no guarantee of a plea agreement.

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15 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

D'OH!!! Right.

But he would have been in trouble had the defense decided not to agree to a plea. He couldn't have put her on the stand if they'd gone to trial. There was no guarantee of a plea agreement.

Yes he would’ve been in trouble, that’s why he had to give a lenient plea deal. But still it’s better that the witch of a mom got some time in prison rather than no time, the judge who let her off with a slap on the wrist and time in a halfway house for killing the kidnapper when they thought she was a vigilante was one of the softest judges ever.

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Ahhhh, “Charm City”, an episode that makes all our cops, and Van Buren AND Claire and Jack the biggest hypocrites and the proverbial black kettle.

It would make more sense for them to be portrayed this way if they were the guest stars on a different show!

Even in his first episode, Rey didn’t stop questioning the suspect they had in “Bitter Fruit”! There were a number of episodes where the cops continued to question even AFTER the suspect asked for a lawyer.

Even Schiff was shown to be pissed because the cops screwed up and the evidence and confessions got thrown out.

So Jack, Claire, and Van Buren can just miss me with acting as if they always follow the protocols and law.

Van Buren was a huge disappointment with her acting the cop who didn’t want to share or work with another jurisdiction because she wanted the collar.

Oh YUCK! It’s POD!Paul! in “Custody”!

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"Custody"

So it turns out that Paul didn't stay with the large corporate law firm he went to after leaving the DA's office (according to Stone in the deleted scene), but is a sold practitioner? At least, that's what he told Jack--about how he didn't have the money or people to run investigations, blah, blah, blah, like the DA's office did.

Huh? The DA's office doesn't have the kind of budget to do what big law firms can do. But that's neither here or there; it was a line that Pod!Paul! could throw in Jack's face.

 

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I watched Encore tonight, the follow up to Coma, and I love this episode, I thought Coma was just decent, a decent but not great episode, but Encore is fantastic. Great, in depth case, I like how the detectives investigated the murder at the start not knowing Dobson was the victim’s husband, then how they linked Dobson to Cruz, and then finally how they figured out Dobson’s new girlfriend had gotten Cruz back to the country. A lot of great investigative and legal work, and Dobson was a compelling villain, I loved Schiff’s “Romeo, thy name is Dobson” line, something about that line and Schiff’s delivery was really great. Great episode. 

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Maaan. I'm going to have to get this season on dvd. I wasn't able to pay attention or enjoy "Encore" when it aired on BBCA yesterday, because some scenes kept freezing and lines were muted--not a censor thing, but technical glitch thing. It was fucking annoying.

I've noticed something else too, after Mike left; Lennie became more and more willing to violate suspects' civil rights when questioning them. I blame it on Rey.

The whole 27's hypocrisy is in full effect when they act all holier than thou in "Charm City", as if they don't violate suspects' civil rights wily-nilly. Then it's back to the same old same old in future episodes.

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I watched Bitter Fruit today, this is a great episode, a lot of good twists and good detective work. One thing stood out to me at the end - when the kidnapper’s mom says her son called the victim’s mom when the victim was injured, wouldn’t phone records either prove or disprove the story? It was implied that the kidnapper’s mom wasn’t telling the truth, as McCoy basically spoon fed her what she should say so he could get Karen Gaines put in prison, but wouldn’t phone records prove whether or not a call was made from the kidnapper to Karen Gaines? If she didn’t receive a call, that would’ve proven the mom’s story a lie and the charges might’ve been dismissed. Of course the prosecution could always say they were using burner phones or a payphone, but I was just wondering about that call as Gaines denied having received a call and so it seems like her lawyer would’ve pushed harder on that issue.

Anyway, it’s a great episode, I liked all of the detective work done, and I thought Karen Gaines was still fortunate with her sentence, she orchestrated the kidnapping of her daughter which led to her daughter’s death then killed the kidnapper to cover it up and she would only serve 6 years. If Lennie hadn’t noticed she went to the same clinic as the kidnapper’s boss she might’ve gotten away with it.

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On 12/7/2021 at 10:28 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Were they laying the groundwork for Claire's whining ambivalence/conflict with the death penalty in "Savages"?  So that when she went tromping around in "Aftershock" from the squad to visiting her stepfather, to finally deciding to meet Jack in the bar, wouldn't seem like her thoughts on the death penalty came out of nowhere?

First, if you're going to work for the State's Attorney/DA's office/etc., you have to know that the death penalty is something that will be visited and used in those states that have them. Did Claire think because there was a moratorium on it in NY, it was "safe" to work there? What with her arguing with Jack over it. It was annoying.

It wasn't a moratorium (as it is now).  The previous statute had been struck down by SCotUS in the 1970s, and New York had no death penalty (thankfully, IMO) until a new law  went on the books in 1995.  Several pre-S6 episodes depend on this:  "Vengeance" and "Act of God" are two that spring to mind.

So I'm not going to blame Claire for not immediately quitting her job the moment Pataki signed the bill.  It would be natural for her to take a few months to decide that this was, in fact, morally intolerable and it was time to open up that florist's shop (or whatever she and Brooke Smith talk about in "Savior") after all. JMO.

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On 12/6/2021 at 9:45 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

On 12/6/2021 at 9:45 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

When I first saw this, my heart nearly broke when I thought Hynes was the same judge in “Indifference”. But it was just the same actor. That judge was Erdheim.

Louis Zorich was a terrific actor and perfect for the judge parts. (I was also excited to see both he and his wife Olympia Dukakis appear on Retro TV's reruns of the long-defunct, NYC-based NBC soap The Doctors - separately, and in episodes from the late 1970s.) Here's my favorite story about them, from Mr. Zorich's 2018 obit in the NYT:

In 1991 Mr. Zorich spoke of the one play he and Ms. Dukakis had done that he would not want to revisit: Edward Albee’s “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?” They played George and Martha, the warring couple at the play’s center, in a 1979 production in Montclair and, he said, had gotten a little too into their characters.

After playing the show for a few weeks, he said, he marched into her dressing room and asked, “Why are you going after me like that?,” only to hear her explain that she was merely playing the role. After another week or two, she confronted him with the same sort of accusation.

“I’ll never forget that,” he said. “We almost got divorced.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/02/obituaries/louis-zorich-familiar-actor-on-tv-and-stage-dies-at-93.html

Getting back to S6, overall I thought it was a more cohesive season than S5 even though Rey Curtis was insufferably self-righteous (and I personally enjoyed seeing him taken down a peg or two). At the time, what was the reaction of "Aftershock", given that it departed from format so much? 

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It's kind of interesting watching Rey in nearly every episode so far roughly handle suspects and witnesses because you can see that Briscoe and especially Van Buren have their careers flash before their eyes every time Curtis shove a drug dealer up against a wall. No way they want another Logan incident.

 

Though I wonder what they would think of someone like Stabler from SVU who would actually beat up perps.

 

And in Bitter Fruit the mother shooting the kidnapper and murderer of her daughter during the arraignment is still shocking even though I knew it was about to happen. I think because all the other arraignments are so mundane that I don't take much notice of them, so when something out of the ordinary happens during that time I can't help but be a little surprised. Though I wonder if it would have been better story speaking if she wasn't involved in her daughter's kidnapping. Just have her be a grieving parent out for revenge.

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Maybe it's just me, but I definitely saw shades of Curtis' hot-heateded mix of self-righteousness in another franchise Latino cop - SVU's Nick Amaro. Both had their "sexiness" beat over the viewers' heads in futile attempts to forget OGs Logan and Stabler.

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Aftershock seemed to be Law and Order doing an episode of Homicide life on the street. Where it's all character interaction and philosophical musings. 

Sad to see Claire die like that. What I found interesting was how she was talking about how she would hate to die like the guy she had just seen being executed. Knowing the exact time you're going to die. And her death at the end is like the most random death possible with the car crash.

Rey didn't really put up even a token protest when he cheated on his wife. He just went ahead and did it.

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Encore was on today, I love this episode, while I thought the “first part” of the storyline, Coma in season 5, was just average, Encore was fantastic, really great plot and Dobson was a memorable villain. I liked how in the first part of the episode they didn’t even know Dobson was the husband of the victim and then how they tied all of it together. Really diabolical plot with how Dobson got his girlfriend to lure the hitman back to the country to try to direct suspicion away from him.

I love Schiff’s “Romeo thy name is Dobson” line, such a memorable line and his delivery was perfect as always. And Jack and Claire asking Dobson’s new girlfriend if she really wanted to be Mrs Dobson #3 after showing her pictures of the first 2 Mrs Dobson’s. Great episode. 

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On 5/26/2022 at 4:28 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Encore was on today, I love this episode, while I thought the “first part” of the storyline, Coma in season 5, was just average, Encore was fantastic, really great plot and Dobson was a memorable villain. I liked how in the first part of the episode they didn’t even know Dobson was the husband of the victim and then how they tied all of it together. Really diabolical plot with how Dobson got his girlfriend to lure the hitman back to the country to try to direct suspicion away from him.

I love Schiff’s “Romeo thy name is Dobson” line, such a memorable line and his delivery was perfect as always. And Jack and Claire asking Dobson’s new girlfriend if she really wanted to be Mrs Dobson #3 after showing her pictures of the first 2 Mrs Dobson’s. Great episode. 

I love that episode. Yeah, they had no idea who the husband was for so long. I like how they accidentally figure out that Dobson was behind everything when McCoy remarks that when Cruz came back it was the final nail in Dobson's coffin.  I also love Cruz's girlfriend trying to dash into the room to beat up the girlfriend.

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10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love that episode. Yeah, they had no idea who the husband was for so long. I like how they accidentally figure out that Dobson was behind everything when McCoy remarks that when Cruz came back it was the final nail in Dobson's coffin.  I also love Cruz's girlfriend trying to dash into the room to beat up the girlfriend.

Yep it’s a great episode, it worked really well how they didn’t know who the victim’s husband was during the first part of the investigation, then how they connected all of the dots and figured out how Dobson set it all up. I liked where they figured out Dobson’s girlfriend lured Cruz back to America. 

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17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yep it’s a great episode, it worked really well how they didn’t know who the victim’s husband was during the first part of the investigation, then how they connected all of the dots and figured out how Dobson set it all up. I liked where they figured out Dobson’s girlfriend lured Cruz back to America. 

So do I. It was a great scene followed up by the end when Dobson walks into the office so arrogant because he was sure he had gotten away with it again. Only for it to all come falling down. I love Jack asking his girlfriend how Dobson could possibly have a murderer's girlfriend's number and how he would know which box the money was in. I also kind of hope given how he tried to frame the mobster for it that doesn't end well for him in jail either.

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While I have access to WE, I just rewatched 6.5 "Hot Pursuit" with Amanda Peet, who I mistook for Amy Brenneman, or else I might not have watched. 

There's a twist at the end; a reveal that Leslie wasn't really as bad as we thought (which Claire had thought all along) but Jack does not see it until Leslie and her Mom are arguing as if there is no one else in the room. This leads to the final remarks between Jack and Adam that clearly show Jack's change of heart:

  • [JACK] Her family's hired a new squad of psychiatrists for the sentencing hearing. They've got a stack of filings this high making the case for leniency.

    [ADAM SCHIFF] There's no law that says you have to oppose them.

    [JACK] You should have seen her with her mother, Adam.

    [ADAM] I'll pass.

    [JACK] But it cuts both ways. She became a killer to get at her mother or she was vulnerable to coercion by Leon Trapp because of her mother.

Perhaps because of Amanda Peet's line delivery, the significance of the dialog between Leslie and her mother did not come across to me on previous viewings. I put in ellipses (. . .) to omit a few lines that it seemed weren't even delivered correctly:

  • [MELNICK] Man two, Jack. I'm giving you a gift.

    [JACK] I'll give you one. Man one. She does the maximum.

    [MELNICK] Concurrent?

    [JACK] Mmm-hmm.

    [LESLIE] What does that mean?

    [MELNICK OR JACK?] You'd be eligible for parole in eight years.

    [LESLIE] Forget it.

    [?] Leslie.

    [LESLIE] This was your idea, not mine.

    [JACK] If your client wants to take her chances...

    [LESLIE] . . . Mom, I was kidnapped, remember?

    [DAD?] It went too far, Leslie. I can't bail you out this time. 

    [MOM?] Maybe if you hadn't bailed her out those other times . . . .

    [LESLIE] In one of those articles Leon showed me, it said you were moving on with your lives. I was gone a few days, and it's like, "Next."

    [MOM] Don't be ridiculous.

    [LESLIE] You think I'm guilty, because I smoked a little pot and wouldn't date those eunuch preppies you were always bringing around.

    [MOM] Of course not. You always preferred trash.

    [LESLIE] You think I wanted Leon Trapp to tie me upside down to the bed, unzip his fly...

    [MOM] Leslie!

    [LESLIE] Oh! I'm so sorry to embarrass you by getting raped. . . .I think you were happier when you thought I was dead.

    [MOM] (GASPING) You're the one who would rather die...Admit it! Than live decently. Admit it! Why don't you do the right thing for once in your life?

    [LESLIE] Oh, my God, Mother. I'm not making any deals. I didn't do anything wrong.
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(edited)
8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

While I have access to WE, I just rewatched 6.5 "Hot Pursuit" with Amanda Peet, who I mistook for Amy Brenneman, or else I might not have watched. 

There's a twist at the end; a reveal that Leslie wasn't really as bad as we thought

Oh yes, she was. She was guilty!guilty!guilty!

She referred to the bartender at that place by his nick name, Willy? Billy? And when Jack called her on it, she tried to play it off as a typical short version for William. Which no. Jack threw out several other short names for William.

Leslie was a fucking piece of work and Yours Truly had no sympathy when she was found guilty.

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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Hot Pursuit is a great episode that left the viewer kind of contemplating - I thought Leslie deserved to be found guilty, she definitely picked the location for the first robbery/murder, she was complicit, but I’m not sure how harsh of a sentence she should get given that Trapp did kidnap her. I really liked the ending scene between Jack and Adam.

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32 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Hot Pursuit is a great episode that left the viewer kind of contemplating - I thought Leslie deserved to be found guilty, she definitely picked the location for the first robbery/murder, she was complicit, but I’m not sure how harsh of a sentence she should get given that Trapp did kidnap her. I really liked the ending scene between Jack and Adam.

I wonder if a different actress and/or director would have left us feeling more sympathetic towards Leslie by the end ——which I think was intended by the writers. 

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6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I wonder if a different actress and/or director would have left us feeling more sympathetic towards Leslie by the end ——which I think was intended by the writers. 

Not for me. If another actress had spoken the same dialogue, and acted as directed as a spoiled ass entitled brat, I would feel the same.

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I just watched Savages, the first episode of the show where they sought the death penalty as the law had just changed, good episode. I felt no sympathy for Sandig, he was a crook who murdered a detective because the detective had discovered he was a money launderer. I didn’t have an issue with him receiving the death penalty, murdering a police officer to keep your crimes from being discovered is a very heinous crime, Sandig may have been well educated and had a respectable front but he was nothing but scum. All of the characters reactions and opinions were interesting.

Curtis behaved like a punk, he assaulted the drug dealer in interrogation and then gave Van Buren attitude when she rightfully chewed his ass out, I really didn’t like Curtis a lot of the time.

I liked the detective work in tracing the money and figuring out it was Sandig and not Quinlan who shot the detective. 

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10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just watched Savages, the first episode of the show where they sought the death penalty as the law had just changed, good episode. I felt no sympathy for Sandig, he was a crook who murdered a detective because the detective had discovered he was a money launderer. I didn’t have an issue with him receiving the death penalty, murdering a police officer to keep your crimes from being discovered is a very heinous crime, Sandig may have been well educated and had a respectable front but he was nothing but scum. All of the characters reactions and opinions were interesting.

Curtis behaved like a punk, he assaulted the drug dealer in interrogation and then gave Van Buren attitude when she rightfully chewed his ass out, I really didn’t like Curtis a lot of the time.

I liked the detective work in tracing the money and figuring out it was Sandig and not Quinlan who shot the detective. 

I hated Curtis. He was an ass most of the time. I'm glad he left and we got Green who was the best.  Another thing I didn't like was how so many women were always coming onto or flirting with Curtis. It's a pet peeve of mine in books and shows when they have or state all women love him or all men love her. No, not every woman does. I do like Van Buren chewing him out and reminding Lennie what happen with Logan which is a good point. I like the different opinions about the death penalty being reinstated. They were typical with Jack for it and Claire against it. I think Adam's point made the most sense. If you don't use it for the most serious crimes what's the point?  

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6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I hated Curtis. He was an ass most of the time. I'm glad he left and we got Green who was the best.  Another thing I didn't like was how so many women were always coming onto or flirting with Curtis. It's a pet peeve of mine in books and shows when they have or state all women love him or all men love her. No, not every woman does. I do like Van Buren chewing him out and reminding Lennie what happen with Logan which is a good point. I like the different opinions about the death penalty being reinstated. They were typical with Jack for it and Claire against it. I think Adam's point made the most sense. If you don't use it for the most serious crimes what's the point?  

Oh yes I hated how they constantly had women flirting with Curtis, it got so irritating, they tried to shove it down our throats just how attractive we were supposed to find Curtis. And yes he was a sanctimonious jackass much of the time, his attitude really irritates me, and I always liked when Curtis got put in his place. 
The characters reactions about the death penalty being reinstated were interesting, I have mixed feelings about the death penalty myself and I thought each character made interesting points about it, but I didn’t feel any sympathy for Sandig, and I didn’t buy his remorse act, I think he was just sorry he got caught, he liked living his comfortable lifestyle and had no problem committing crimes to fund it, and he had no problem executing a police officer who might expose him. He was a sack of shit. 

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20 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Oh yes I hated how they constantly had women flirting with Curtis, it got so irritating, they tried to shove it down our throats just how attractive we were supposed to find Curtis. And yes he was a sanctimonious jackass much of the time, his attitude really irritates me, and I always liked when Curtis got put in his place. 

Yeah they over did it. Sure some women and men would probably find him attractive. But not every woman. Most women have a type and some would be turned off by his attitude. I like the actor and found him hot in other roles like in Miss Congeniality by I didn't find him hot as Rey. He oozed jackass before he even spoke.

Quote

The characters reactions about the death penalty being reinstated were interesting, I have mixed feelings about the death penalty myself and I thought each character made interesting points about it, but I didn’t feel any sympathy for Sandig, and I didn’t buy his remorse act, I think he was just sorry he got caught, he liked living his comfortable lifestyle and had no problem committing crimes to fund it, and he had no problem executing a police officer who might expose him. He was a sack of shit. 


It really was. It was a really big change in their jobs and I liked that it was addressed and how they reacted to it. I'm not sure Lennie's right about only someone looking at death having nothing to lose. I think someone looking at life in jail also has nothing to lose. I'm fine with life in prison for most crimes and murders but there are some crimes that are just so horrible that I think the murderer deserves the death penalty.  

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