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Season 5: Say It Ain't So! Good-bye Detective Michael Logan


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3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

It was unintentional foreshadowing, but "Second Opinion" aired on WE last night, a.k.a. Jack McCoy's arrival, and the episode with the breast cancer patient who dies with cyanide emanating from her body, and it was sort of prescient to see Van Buren eating pizza with Logan and Briscoe, talking about what she'd do if she ever got "the Big C".

Obviously, she did get it years later, but it was funny how she told Logan and Briscoe that she'd be spending it with her hubby and kids and not eating pizza with them. (And when she did get it, she and her husband had split and she still worked! Best laid plans...)

Just so odd how this turned into foreshadowing...

And that convenient plot line was something I detested. Because what little we saw of Anita's husband and family life, it was a good and loving one. I don't see why they couldn't just recast her husband with Ernie Hudson if the show wanted him that much. And though it may be nitpicking, she had ovarian cancer, not breast cancer--and it was breast cancer she was referring to when she had that conversation with Lennie and Mike in "Second Opinion."

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35 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And that convenient plot line was something I detested. Because what little we saw of Anita's husband and family life, it was a good and loving one. I don't see why they couldn't just recast her husband with Ernie Hudson if the show wanted him that much. And though it may be nitpicking, she had ovarian cancer, not breast cancer--and it was breast cancer she was referring to when she had that conversation with Lennie and Mike in "Second Opinion."

I know the cancer was different. But, IIRC, the three were discussing cancer in general terms since the victim was dying, so it did still sort of apply.

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3 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I know the cancer was different. But, IIRC, the three were discussing cancer in general terms since the victim was dying, so it did still sort of apply.

I'd have to rewatch, but I'm almost positive that Van Buren said that if she ever got it, it being breast cancer, because that was what Mike couldn't understand--why so many of the women they spoke with, refused to get treatment or something, and what would she do if she got the big C.

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Yeah, it was breast cancer, because Anita pokes at Mike about it - "What was the first thing you noticed about little Susie who sat across the aisle from you in school?" "C'mon, I was thirteen years old!" And Lennie goes, "Oh, and everything's changed since then, right?"

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Thanks! Still, it applies, as it discussed what Van Buren would do if she got cancer. It's something that the discussion happened fairly early on (hey S5 is still early out of 20 seasons!) and it sadly came to pass, even if in another form.

I also don't get why the show had Van Buren's marriage go to hell, but maybe it was believed it would open more avenues for the character. Seems like the show had it out for happy relationships! (I know, happy equals boring, but it's still noticeable.)

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Well, I think being a cop could be hard on a marriage, especially if you had charges under you.  Yeah, it would've been nice to have her marriage last, but I think it was realistic that it may not have.  

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On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 9:55 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Thanks! Still, it applies, as it discussed what Van Buren would do if she got cancer. It's something that the discussion happened fairly early on (hey S5 is still early out of 20 seasons!) and it sadly came to pass, even if in another form.

I also don't get why the show had Van Buren's marriage go to hell, but maybe it was believed it would open more avenues for the character. Seems like the show had it out for happy relationships! (I know, happy equals boring, but it's still noticeable.)

Happy equals boring because the writers are lazy.

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 WThe only marriage to last in the Mothership was that if Cerretta. And his wife was played by the same actress that played Mafia Don Frank Massucci's wife. 

Cragen had a happy marriage-UNTIL Wolf decided to kill his wife when he appeared on SVU. Max had a happy marriage-until the show killed him off.

Schiff had a long happy marriage-until the show killed his wife off in "Terminal."

And of course Rey. Aaand the show killed her off, too!

Did I miss anyone?

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On another note, from the Actors In Other Roles in the Criminal Intent forum:

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Courtney B. Vance is in the episode, "Rage", from Season 5 of the Mothership on WE as I type.

Ah yes, The One Where Carver Kills Somebody. 

Seriously, though, I can't with that character. Greer may have been filled with anger for a reason, but using that as an excuse for murder (and trying to make it look like suicide on top of that) doesn't work for me. I couldn't believe it when he told Mike that not only was he better than some punk who'd robbed a 7 - Eleven, he was also better than Mike.

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1 hour ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

On another note, from the Actors In Other Roles in the Criminal Intent forum:

Ah yes, The One Where Carver Kills Somebody. 

Seriously, though, I can't with that character. Greer may have been filled with anger for a reason, but using that as an excuse for murder (and trying to make it look like suicide on top of that) doesn't work for me. I couldn't believe it when he told Mike that not only was he better than some punk who'd robbed a 7 - Eleven, he was also better than Mike.

But it made me love his shocked/bewildered look at the end when he was found guilty. I think with some other African-Americans on the jury, he was sure he would walk. So it was good to see Greer face cold hard reality.

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2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

On another note, from the Actors In Other Roles in the Criminal Intent forum:

Ah yes, The One Where Carver Kills Somebody. 

Seriously, though, I can't with that character. Greer may have been filled with anger for a reason, but using that as an excuse for murder (and trying to make it look like suicide on top of that) doesn't work for me. I couldn't believe it when he told Mike that not only was he better than some punk who'd robbed a 7 - Eleven, he was also better than Mike.

The delusional often think like that.

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5 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

On another note, from the Actors In Other Roles in the Criminal Intent forum:

Ah yes, The One Where Carver Kills Somebody. 

Seriously, though, I can't with that character. Greer may have been filled with anger for a reason, but using that as an excuse for murder (and trying to make it look like suicide on top of that) doesn't work for me. I couldn't believe it when he told Mike that not only was he better than some punk who'd robbed a 7 - Eleven, he was also better than Mike.

Not to mention the the fact that he CHEATED his way to the top at that business, and used that same bullshit to justify it. He was nothing but a two-bit con artist.

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(edited)

So I’m finishing up watching this season and this just hit me and had me 🙄🙄🙄🙄:

That Claire was such an awesome assistant D.A. which had Jack thrilled she would now be working for him now that Ben was gone.

Especially since she had barely a year’s experience in that position and made more mistakes than awesomeness.

Also noticed the way she carried herself and that they changed her character-she was a lot more confident and Jill portrayed her as an ADA with more experience. This confidence was missing at the end of season four.

The second thing that had me 😒😒😒 was her line to Jack when she first met him was telling him that she would not join the list of assistants who he’d had sexual relationships with while they were still his assistants. And it took less than 10 episodes before they were sleeping together. The line of Jack’s in “House Counsel”  to Claire at the end-“I wouldn’t be good company tonight” showed me that.

And I noticed that she and Jack gave the vibe that they were equals instead of him technically being her supervisor. Even with Adam, she was more confident-sitting next to him on the sofa, leaning in when trying to convince him of a strategy.  Or even arguing with him and Jack.

It was like she was a different character or that more than a year had gone by since she joined the office.

I will always love Mike’s defense of Van Buren in “Competence”, especially with that racist douche of the chief of DICKS.

It also just emphasized the line about Mike having a problem with her rank in a skirt more ridiculous and a line that should never have made it to air.

 

 

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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"Competence" was the first great Van Buren episode, and SEM brought it. I had to laugh at the opening where Van Buren's sons are chatting in the car after she gets out to use the ATM, and they agree that Shaquille O'Neal "makes too many commercials". This was 1994. The more things change, huh? 😂

I would have liked to see a follow-up to "Seed". The disgusting doctor got away with it, and I would have liked to see the kids have to deal with the mess he put them in. We got the unusual twist of the Chinese Wall, allowing Jack and Claire to investigate separately. Jack's investigation leads him to a lab tech.

Jack: Isn't it odd that so many of these babies are carriers?

Tech: Well, it's either cause for an article in The New England Journal of Medicine, or...

Jack: They're all related.

The expression of horror on Jack's face really said it all, didn't it?

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I saw White Rabbit today - unusual episode but I like it, mainly for the courtroom scenes with Bill Kunstler, it was cool that he played himself in this episode, the courtroom scenes were very entertaining.

Next up, Competence, a great feature for Van Buren, it was nice to see her take center stage. It’s interesting how Logan was the one who immediately took up for Van Buren and wanted to investigate to clear her while Briscoe had his reservations. I liked how Logan stood up for Van Buren to that Captain Burnett who was being a prick. It was a different type of episode, but it was really good and I loved Van Buren’s scenes. I liked her scene at the end with Jack when Jack said if it was his father who had been mugged at the ATM he would’ve shot both kids, and Van Buren asks if he would’ve dragged him in front of a grand jury, and Jack says “damn right. I would’ve gotten an indictment too!”. It was one of the first scenes between Jack and Anita.

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I'm still playing catch up and am up to "Family Values" right now.

But as I've stated before, whenever I watch the premiere, "Second Opinion" I have mixed feelings. Because I was just out of college when it aired, and in the rewatches over the past 7 and a half years, I get extremely angry because I've been there, and have been in remission for that long.

I don't know if in 1994, male oncologists were condescending as the one woman whose husband took her off the snake oil concoctions that Haas was peddling and had her get the mastectomies and reconstructive surgeries. But I hate how they wrote that DEATH was preferable to having the surgeries and chemo. It still enrages me.

But Jack's introduction was so smooth and seamless. And I have to say I got it wrong--it was ADAM who was singing Claire's praises to Jack, not Ben. Still, my reaction is the same: PUHLEAZE.

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3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But as I've stated before, whenever I watch the premiere, "Second Opinion" I have mixed feelings. Because I was just out of college when it aired, and in the rewatches over the past 7 and a half years, I get extremely angry because I've been there, and have been in remission for that long.

I don't know if in 1994, male oncologists were condescending as the one woman whose husband took her off the snake oil concoctions that Haas was peddling and had her get the mastectomies and reconstructive surgeries. But I hate how they wrote that DEATH was preferable to having the surgeries and chemo. It still enrages me.

I don’t blame you. As much as I want to feel sorry for those women because cancer and chemo sucks, I wanted to smack them upside the head. You can live without sex. You CAN’T live if you’re dead. 

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(edited)

Huh. I thought they'd fixed the errors as to what precinct our cops worked out of, yet, in "Precious" during one of the scenes questioning Marty, the CHUNG-CHUNG! Tag we got was "33rd Precinct" instead of 27th Precinct.

It's also interesting that it was Mike who thought something wasn't kosher with these two, and that Lennie and Van Buren just wanted to brush it off; I loved his "You're the mommies and daddies here" and you're telling me nothing looks suspicious? (paraphrasing the unquoted line.)

Judge Leon!!!!!

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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Bad Faith was just on, this is a great episode, one of Logan’s best episodes and a strong case, Father Joe was such a despicable piece of shit. Really nice to see Cragen again and I liked the scene between him and Logan at the restaurant, that was really good. It was puzzling that Cragen said he had a 14 year old in this episode, although it was later confirmed on SVU he never had children and he never mentioned having children when he was a regular on L&O - one of the few examples of very poor continuity in the franchise.

Like I said though, very compelling case and a good feature for Logan. 

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8 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

Just saw Purple Heart. I feel sorry for the wife. Killing the husband and hit man was wrong but geez they were jerks.

I didn’t feel sorry for the wife at all - she was extremely cold blooded killer who killed for money The husband wasn’t the greatest by any means but he didn’t deserve to die, she should’ve just divorced him, and she killed the hitman just to eliminate a witness and so she wouldn’t have to pay him the rest. She wasn’t sympathetic at all IMO.

Purple Heart might be my favorite season 5 episode, a really intricate plot with a good investigation and really good trial scenes. I loved how McCoy got the wife to take the stand so he could call the rebuttal witness, by telling the defense he would change his theory of the crime, that was really good legal maneuvering. Terrific episode.

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17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn’t feel sorry for the wife at all - she was extremely cold blooded killer who killed for money The husband wasn’t the greatest by any means but he didn’t deserve to die, she should’ve just divorced him, and she killed the hitman just to eliminate a witness and so she wouldn’t have to pay him the rest. She wasn’t sympathetic at all IMO.

Purple Heart might be my favorite season 5 episode, a really intricate plot with a good investigation and really good trial scenes. I loved how McCoy got the wife to take the stand so he could call the rebuttal witness, by telling the defense he would change his theory of the crime, that was really good legal maneuvering. Terrific episode.

No he didn't deserve to die but I can understand her frustration at her husband. The money was the last straw in a long list of issues between them and divorcing would've killed her business or set it back with the money she'll have to give her husband. Better option than killing sure but I just felt sorry at the hard work she put into her business and her husband was hurting and not helping. It's a similar situation some couples have dealt with. 

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38 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

No he didn't deserve to die but I can understand her frustration at her husband. The money was the last straw in a long list of issues between them and divorcing would've killed her business or set it back with the money she'll have to give her husband. Better option than killing sure but I just felt sorry at the hard work she put into her business and her husband was hurting and not helping. It's a similar situation some couples have dealt with. 

I just didn’t feel for her at all - she was ice cold and it seemed like she would kill anyone who got in her way. The husband wasn’t great but she should’ve just divorced him, she probably should’ve done so a long time ago. Everything about the wife was just very cold blooded.

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(edited)
35 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

I just didn’t feel for her at all - she was ice cold and it seemed like she would kill anyone who got in her way. The husband wasn’t great but she should’ve just divorced him, she probably should’ve done so a long time ago. Everything about the wife was just very cold blooded.

I'm still behind, so haven't rewatched this yet. But I seem to recall that she didn't divorce him because then she'd have to pay him alimony, as she was the one earning the money. Hence her decision to put a hit out on him.

I just love Lisa Gay Hamilton.

I will say this about the show in general and this season specifically: I love all the "reunions" between Sam Waterston and the guest stars who he was in in other movies or shows. Like "Virtue" had him smiling at Regina Taylor's Sara Maslin, since they didn't really have any substantive scenes together that weren't in the courtroom. They starred in "I'll Fly Away" that ended about a year before he joined this show.

And I especially loved Jack's closing argument to demonstrate that Talbert really raped Sarah--that she didn't have a choice, so no consent. I just loved how he said "I'm the DA" after each hypothetical threat and how he would have been able to get away with hypothetical crimes.

I think I posted this before, but either the writers told Jill to take Claire in this direction, or they changed her character, but in about 9 months, she went from inexperienced to not being sure of herself, to getting in Jack's face, and arguing with both him and Adam this season.

I can't tell if it's because they probably got involved by episode 10 ("House Counsel") or that's how it seemed to me, or the writing. She never argued with Ben that way. With Jack, it's more...intimate and as if they've known each other a long time, which wasn't the case at all. It's at the end of this episode, after Jack's old friend, who became a mob mouthpiece, is found guilty, that he tells Claire to take the next elevator because he wouldn't be "good company."

But my absolute favorite line in "Scoundrels" has got to be Jack repeating Tappin's line: "Heavens to Betsy, Claire. What a dreadful idea."

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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On 3/9/2022 at 12:27 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm still behind, so haven't rewatched this yet. But I seem to recall that she didn't divorce him because then she'd have to pay him alimony, as she was the one earning the money. Hence her decision to put a hit out on him.

I just love Lisa Gay Hamilton.

Yeah, she said something like she kept trying to lift them up into a better life, but he was always dragging them down. That everyone loved the guy because he was so charming and always ready for a good time, etc. "When he stole that money from me? It was not charming." Jack does tell Claire that money was her cue for passion, but at the same time it's hard to entirely fault her when he was doing things like getting drunk with friends the night her restaurant was getting an important review, and they were so loud and obnoxious that the reviewer left without finishing the meal they'd ordered.

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On 3/7/2022 at 8:49 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I don’t blame you. As much as I want to feel sorry for those women because cancer and chemo sucks, I wanted to smack them upside the head. You can live without sex. You CAN’T live if you’re dead. 

So do I. They were choosing death over a body part and more time with their family.  Both of my grandmothers' died of cancer. They would have cut it off themselves if it meant they'd have more time with their family. 

On 3/8/2022 at 5:53 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Bad Faith was just on, this is a great episode, one of Logan’s best episodes and a strong case, Father Joe was such a despicable piece of shit. Really nice to see Cragen again and I liked the scene between him and Logan at the restaurant, that was really good. It was puzzling that Cragen said he had a 14 year old in this episode, although it was later confirmed on SVU he never had children and he never mentioned having children when he was a regular on L&O - one of the few examples of very poor continuity in the franchise.

Like I said though, very compelling case and a good feature for Logan. 

I agree. That was such a good episode. Father Joe was such a horrible person. 

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There seemed to be a lack of passion in this season. Too many of the cases just seemed a bit dull to me.

It was nice to rewatch Jack's first season. Tbh it's not obvious but I did sense a sort of closeness between Claire and Jack that suggested something more than work colleagues. When I first watched this season I had no idea that Claire and Jack were sleeping together. Because I was just watching it for the cases. But re-watching the show I could see how it could be possible that those two were in a relationship. Though I thought Jack worked much better with Jamie or Abby in terms of a professional relationship than he did with Claire.

 

My favourite episode of the season was the one where Jack had to go up against his old lawyer friend. At the end when the lawyer was convicted it made me wonder if Jack, along with mourning the fate of someone he knew, was thinking whether he'd have done the same thing if he was in the defence lawyers position. There seemed to be a lot of similarities between them. The confidence, a sense of wanting to win so badly they can't see the forest for the trees. Maybe Jack was thinking he'd probably get too involved in the Mafia too if he was in his friend's position.

Mike Logan's exit doesn't really make sense to me. Like I know why he left, because you can't just punch somebody. But the lead up to the punch was interesting because I could see no motivation for the assault. Sure, the politician was awful, but Logan as a police officer would have dealt with the scum of the city. And he hadn't been punching them. So for him to just hit the politician just seemed a bit out of place.

 

Bad faith makes more sense as a leaving episode for Logan. I could see him leaving from the events of the episode more clearly than the finale of season 5.

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I think Logan was extra pissed off in Pride because the defense had made him look bad and smeared his character and made him look like a bigot, and then the politician yelling homophobic shit outside the courthouse was just the last straw for him. I thought Logan’s exit was fine, Logan always had a fiery passion that sometimes boiled over and I bought it that he might slug the scumbag councilman. I just wish the final scene of the episode had been of Logan with Van Buren and Lennie, instead of Jack/Claire talking about Logan.

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7 hours ago, Columbo said:

There seemed to be a lack of passion in this season. Too many of the cases just seemed a bit dull to me.

It was nice to rewatch Jack's first season. Tbh it's not obvious but I did sense a sort of closeness between Claire and Jack that suggested something more than work colleagues. When I first watched this season I had no idea that Claire and Jack were sleeping together. Because I was just watching it for the cases. But re-watching the show I could see how it could be possible that those two were in a relationship. Though I thought Jack worked much better with Jamie or Abby in terms of a professional relationship than he did with Claire.

 

My favourite episode of the season was the one where Jack had to go up against his old lawyer friend. At the end when the lawyer was convicted it made me wonder if Jack, along with mourning the fate of someone he knew, was thinking whether he'd have done the same thing if he was in the defence lawyers position. There seemed to be a lot of similarities between them. The confidence, a sense of wanting to win so badly they can't see the forest for the trees. Maybe Jack was thinking he'd probably get too involved in the Mafia too if he was in his friend's position.

Mike Logan's exit doesn't really make sense to me. Like I know why he left, because you can't just punch somebody. But the lead up to the punch was interesting because I could see no motivation for the assault. Sure, the politician was awful, but Logan as a police officer would have dealt with the scum of the city. And he hadn't been punching them. So for him to just hit the politician just seemed a bit out of place.

 

Bad faith makes more sense as a leaving episode for Logan. I could see him leaving from the events of the episode more clearly than the finale of season 5.

 

7 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think Logan was extra pissed off in Pride because the defense had made him look bad and smeared his character and made him look like a bigot, and then the politician yelling homophobic shit outside the courthouse was just the last straw for him. I thought Logan’s exit was fine, Logan always had a fiery passion that sometimes boiled over and I bought it that he might slug the scumbag councilman. I just wish the final scene of the episode had been of Logan with Van Buren and Lennie, instead of Jack/Claire talking about Logan.

I always wondered if Logan was also still dealing with issues brought up two episodes back with the priest. The crappy politician was just the last straw in a couple of very bad weeks. 

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8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I think Logan was extra pissed off in Pride because the defense had made him look bad and smeared his character and made him look like a bigot, and then the politician yelling homophobic shit outside the courthouse was just the last straw for him. I thought Logan’s exit was fine, Logan always had a fiery passion that sometimes boiled over and I bought it that he might slug the scumbag councilman. I just wish the final scene of the episode had been of Logan with Van Buren and Lennie, instead of Jack/Claire talking about Logan.

But Logan should have been used to looking bad. He knew the score when it came to court stuff. Plus homophobia never had been a trigger point for Logan before.

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7 minutes ago, Columbo said:

But Logan should have been used to looking bad. He knew the score when it came to court stuff. Plus homophobia never had been a trigger point for Logan before.

Logan always had issues with authority figures though, especially smug scum like Crossley. And I think Logan was pissed that the defense implied he was a bigot and that he was a bad detective, and I think Crossley screaming at the protestors outside the courthouse just set Logan off and in the heat of the moment he acted. I bought it, you may have a different opinion, that’s fine, but I bought it.

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3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Logan always had issues with authority figures though, especially smug scum like Crossley. And I think Logan was pissed that the defense implied he was a bigot and that he was a bad detective, and I think Crossley screaming at the protestors outside the courthouse just set Logan off and in the heat of the moment he acted. I bought it, you may have a different opinion, that’s fine, but I bought it.

Logan has always seemed fine with authority figures though.

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8 minutes ago, Columbo said:

Logan has always seemed fine with authority figures though.

I don’t agree with you there - I think he always had a negative view of authority figures and higher ups, he never liked them. Remember how he was with that Captain Burnette in Competence when being questioned by him for one, and there were other instances as well. Logan had a habit of clashing with higher ups and authority figures who abused their position always pissed him off. Again just my opinion but I always thought Logan had issues with authorities.

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9 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don’t agree with you there - I think he always had a negative view of authority figures and higher ups, he never liked them. Remember how he was with that Captain Burnette in Competence when being questioned by him for one, and there were other instances as well. Logan had a habit of clashing with higher ups and authority figures who abused their position always pissed him off. Again just my opinion but I always thought Logan had issues with authorities.

Not so much as authorities that were rank and file, as much as authority figures/brass from internal affairs. The asshole captain in "Competence" was internal affairs. We knew, or learned that Mike didn't have the best childhood: mom abused him; and this season we learned that Krolinsky tried to molest him; that both his parents were alcoholics. But that he loved his father. And he was a horndog!😅

I can't remember when I read that this season would be Mike/Noth's final season. Middle of the season? But there were some really strong episodes for him. And I still call bullshit that Mike had to work in Staten Island for 10 fucking years for punching a murder suspect-even if he was an ex-cop/soon to be ex-councilman. He wasn't acquitted. There was a mistrial. Jack just didn't have the guts to try him again.

Yes, Mike had a temper. But aside from going over the line in threatening a confession out of the guy that killed Max, Mike only got physical with one suspect--and now the episode where he was pushing the suspect against the wall is a complete blank--but the suspect kept saying they couldn't charge him because of double jeopardy over and over again, and he wasn't  the murderer after all. Other than that, he was a damned good and honest cop. 

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3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not so much as authorities that were rank and file, as much as authority figures/brass from internal affairs. The asshole captain in "Competence" was internal affairs. We knew, or learned that Mike didn't have the best childhood: mom abused him; and this season we learned that Krolinsky tried to molest him; that both his parents were alcoholics. But that he loved his father. And he was a horndog!😅

I can't remember when I read that this season would be Mike/Noth's final season. Middle of the season? But there were some really strong episodes for him. And I still call bullshit that Mike had to work in Staten Island for 10 fucking years for punching a murder suspect-even if he was an ex-cop/soon to be ex-councilman. He wasn't acquitted. There was a mistrial. Jack just didn't have the guts to try him again.

Yes, Mike had a temper. But aside from going over the line in threatening a confession out of the guy that killed Max, Mike only got physical with one suspect--and now the episode where he was pushing the suspect against the wall is a complete blank--but the suspect kept saying they couldn't charge him because of double jeopardy over and over again, and he wasn't  the murderer after all. Other than that, he was a damned good and honest cop. 

Wannabe was the episode where Logan got physical with the suspect who got off on an earlier crime. Also in Wedded Bliss he got aggressive with suspects and Phil warned him twice about it. Logan’s temper was a part of his character, I like him a lot as well but his temper was a part of his character from the start.

As for not retrying Crossley, I don’t think they could’ve gotten a conviction, they had no strong piece of evidence against him, and I think they thought it was best not to waste money on a new trial. 

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It's interesting watching the cases unfold with the limited amount of time available in terms of getting across information to us, the audience. Because obviously we'd miss some subtle and more nuanced aspects.

 

I think there was no way they would be able to convict Crossley unless new evidence came to light.

 

Also the rage episode with it's black rage defence was probably the worst episode of the season. Very insulting.

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39 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

It really was. The only saving grace was Courtney B. Vance's performance.

And from that, Vance likely was cast as Criminal Intent's ADA Ron Carver. The Dick Wolf Casting Agency was good at casting from guest roles.

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23 hours ago, Columbo said:

It's interesting watching the cases unfold with the limited amount of time available in terms of getting across information to us, the audience. Because obviously we'd miss some subtle and more nuanced aspects.

 

I think there was no way they would be able to convict Crossley unless new evidence came to light.

 

Also the rage episode with it's black rage defence was probably the worst episode of the season. Very insulting.

interesting pov, here's a different one from tv tropes, not mine though, was wondering your thoughts on it

 

Benjamin "Bud" Greer (who was played by future Law & Order: Criminal Intent star Courtney B. Vance) from the episode "Rage", which the basis of the story is taken from the Long Island Subway killer, Colin Ferguson. Even if he was on the snobbish side, his character was this because he was unfairly rejected by both Black and White society for as long as he remembered and his boss/victim was an unlikable, money-hungry, racist jerkass who it was difficult to care about, unlike Ferguson who slaughtered random people.

 

was mixed on the episode myself

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59 minutes ago, balmz said:

interesting pov, here's a different one from tv tropes, not mine though, was wondering your thoughts on it

 

Benjamin "Bud" Greer (who was played by future Law & Order: Criminal Intent star Courtney B. Vance) from the episode "Rage", which the basis of the story is taken from the Long Island Subway killer, Colin Ferguson. Even if he was on the snobbish side, his character was this because he was unfairly rejected by both Black and White society for as long as he remembered and his boss/victim was an unlikable, money-hungry, racist jerkass who it was difficult to care about, unlike Ferguson who slaughtered random people.

 

was mixed on the episode myself

Wait, was the victim racist? 

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1 minute ago, Columbo said:

Wait, was the victim racist? 

Bud Greer claimed he was - he claimed the victim called him the N word and told him to go back to Africa before he killed him. But that’s the only evidence of the victim being racist and Greer could’ve easily been lying to score points with the jury. 

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6 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Bud Greer claimed he was - he claimed the victim called him the N word and told him to go back to Africa before he killed him. But that’s the only evidence of the victim being racist and Greer could’ve easily been lying to score points with the jury. 

True, he could have been.

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On 2/20/2022 at 12:02 AM, Prairie Rose said:

I would have liked to see a follow-up to "Seed". The disgusting doctor got away with it, and I would have liked to see the kids have to deal with the mess he put them in.

What's hilarious is that they had a Logan episode in CI that was called Seeds and started with the SAME PLOT. And he didn't reference this! Higher on the creepy factor is I just saw an article in the NYT about doctors doing this back in the 60s/70s...

On 3/6/2022 at 3:58 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I saw White Rabbit today - unusual episode but I like it,

Love the investigation on this one (although Logan was too young to be at war protests).

On 3/7/2022 at 7:43 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm still playing catch up and am up to "Family Values" right now.

Is that the one with the reporter who's murdered because that is one I never remember who the killer was and why...

 

On 3/15/2022 at 10:51 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I just wish the final scene of the episode had been of Logan with Van Buren and Lennie, instead of Jack/Claire talking about Logan.

yes!

 

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12 minutes ago, ML89 said:

What's hilarious is that they had a Logan episode in CI that was called Seeds and started with the SAME PLOT. And he didn't reference this! Higher on the creepy factor is I just saw an article in the NYT about doctors doing this back in the 60s/70s...

The Mothership episode was based on a doctor in Virginia who did this. He actually was convicted. Now why couldn't Show use the real life ending where the victims got JUSTICE? I remember the radio station I was interning at when the verdict came in. We got a LOT of listeners complaining because the verdict interrupted that gas bag Rush Limbaugh's show.

14 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Is that the one with the reporter who's murdered because that is one I never remember who the killer was and why...

No. "Family Values" is the one that stars a very young Sarah Paulson who had an affair with her stepfather, who murdered her mother. And he was having an affair with someone else, and that someone else thought it was twu wuv too, and initially lied to give him an alibi.

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50 minutes ago, ML89 said:

Is that the one with the reporter who's murdered because that is one I never remember who the killer was and why...

Can you give more details about this episode? Because the only episode I remember with a reporter being murdered was Anchors Away and that was in season 19.

Edited by Xeliou66
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3 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Can you give more details about this episode? Because the only episode I remember with a reporter being murdered was Anchors Away and that was in season 19.

I think maybe @ML89 might be thinking of the one where that tabloid reporter was murdered. He had threatened to expose a story about the main suspect’s wife, who had been killed? That she has an abortion? Or maybe the one about that one reporter who was killed because he was going to expose someone-turned out the daughter who was 15, killed her mother; but the brother got charged. And her lawyer argued she couldn’t be charged as an adult because she was 15, even though now, she’s 35. And she was having an affair with some mob goon and hasn’t been raped by him. But those were in later seasons, I think.

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1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I think maybe @ML89 might be thinking of the one where that tabloid reporter was murdered. He had threatened to expose a story about the main suspect’s wife, who had been killed? That she has an abortion? Or maybe the one about that one reporter who was killed because he was going to expose someone-turned out the daughter who was 15, killed her mother; but the brother got charged. And her lawyer argued she couldn’t be charged as an adult because she was 15, even though now, she’s 35. And she was having an affair with some mob goon and hasn’t been raped by him. But those were in later seasons, I think.

In Juvenile, the season 9 episode where the reporter was shot because he was going to expose the daughter killed her mother when she was a teenager, the reporter survived being shot in that one, he didn’t die, her brother shot him and went to prison for attempted murder but turned on his sister when he realized the truth about her but the ending revealed the sister was acquitted anyway. That’s a good episode. The other episode you mention is season 8’s Tabloid, where the woman got chased into traffic by the tabloid guy and was run over and her husband shot him after he got off with a slap on the wrist. 

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