Season 5: Say It Ain't So! Good-bye Detective Michael Logan

[GHScorpiosRule]

The only thing I can be grateful for is that they didn't kill Mike off.

 

At least we didn't know until the show was renewed that Noth would be leaving.

 

I was supremely pissed, but have to admit, this season, aside from "Indifference", had some great Mike centric episodes, "Bad Faith" to name one.

 

And of course, we met Jack McCoy, new EADA.

[radishcake]

Season 5: Episode List

 

1 Second Opinion 1994-09-21
2 Coma 1994-09-28
3 Blue Bamboo 1994-10-05
4 Family Values 1994-10-12
5 White Rabbit 1994-10-19
6 Competence 1994-11-02
7 Precious 1994-11-09
8 Virtue 1994-11-23
9 Scoundrels 1994-11-30
10 House Counsel 1995-01-04
11 Guardian 1995-01-11
12 Progeny 1995-01-25
13 Rage 1995-02-01
14 Performance 1995-02-08
15 Seed 1995-02-15
16 Wannabe 1995-03-15
17 Act of God 1995-03-22
18 Privileged 1995-04-05
19 Cruel and Unusual 1995-04-19
20 Bad Faith 1995-04-26
21 Purple Heart 1995-05-03
22 Switch 1995-05-17
23 Pride 1995-05-24

[FormerMod-a1]

I don't know why, but I'm watching Seed right now.  This one bugs me to no end.  None of the parents cared that Dr lied to them?  And impregnated them all with his old sperm?  And now all these kids are living near each other.  But they wont't testify against them? They made some lame arguments about being happy to have a baby - blah blah blah.  But they can be happy with their baby, love them completely and still be mad as hell at the doc and testify against him.  Gah

[radishcake]

That one was so creepy @aquarian1 yuck. 

[ChlcGirl]

I hated losing Ben this season.  While I am more like McCoy - driven by passion and pretty comfortable with juuuuust skirting acceptable behavior - I would rather have a moral, grounded man Like Stone as a DA.

Edited July 1, 2014 by ChlcGirl

[ChlcGirl]

And also? I always felt totally skeeved out with Claire and McCoy boning. So unprofessional.

[FormerMod-a1]

And now I'm watching Switch.  The Multiple Personality Disorder perp.  It is so full or such eyeroll cliches.  

 

I'm beginning to think maybe I don't like this season that much*.  It seems I'm either annoyed with the perps or the victims.  

 

*But I still prefer it for my background noise/comfort TV to so much else that's on.

[ChlcGirl]

Is Switch the one with the woman who kills her psychiatrist?  With Bobby and Nancy as two of her personalities?

[FormerMod-a1]

Yes, that's the one.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Is Switch the one with the woman who kills her psychiatrist?  With Bobby and Nancy as two of her personalities?

 

For all its clichés, I love Francie Swift.  This was the first time I ever saw her.  And despite how cheesy it was, I loved how Nancy said she gave the dr. her award "with gratitude."

Edited July 1, 2014 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't know why, but I'm watching Seed right now.  This one bugs me to no end.  None of the parents cared that Dr lied to them?  And impregnated them all with his old sperm?  And now all these kids are living near each other.  But they wont't testify against them? They made some lame arguments about being happy to have a baby - blah blah blah.  But they can be happy with their baby, love them completely and still be mad as hell at the doc and testify against him.  Gah

 

And I just finished watching it and couldn't agree more. And not only that, on a purely shallow level, it looks like Noth's hair is starting to look like its normal, gorgeous self. Not sure what he did over the hiatus, but when this season premiered, he'd done something to hack his hair from the sides and top. Me no likey!

 

And that doctor was beyond skeevy. And I actually reported on the real life case that it was about! Two years prior, when I was an intern at the local news radio station. I remember how soooooo many folks got pissed when we interrupted Rush Lumdouche's radio show (syndicated) to announce the verdict in VA, that the doctor was found guilty. Oh, how I wish that that had been the case here as well.

 

I also watched "House Counsel" or whatever the hell it was with Lieberman's lawyer, who was supposedly an old friend of Jack's who got into bed with the mob he was defending. Jessica Walters played Koppel's wife. And this one line she said, made me think, man, is it just on television that the wealthy really are over the top entitled?  When Lennie and Mike came to arrest him, they were having a party, but they didn't act like the Gestapo or beat up or anything, but the way Hannah? Anna? stalking into the precinct, accusing them of "terrorizing" them in their home, my eyes rolled so, so hard.

 

And this episode was also a good example of how Stone comes out a better ADA than McCoy. McCoy, who gives Vincent Pastore's murderer, only five years for killing four people, because he agreed to give Furini immunity for any crimes he admitted to when testifying against Koppel. Adam was in fine form with his sarcasm, and Jack's all like "I had NO IDEA that he killed all those people" when he gave him immunity, and Adam comes up with this gem, because it was SO TRUE:

 

"Your blood was streaming downward toward somewhere south of the border" when Jack made the deal, meaning Jack was thinking about his dick, and just winning. And not thinking with his head that houses his brain!

 

Watching "Wanna Be" now and:

"They're all alike with their Irish Tempers and they always lose control..." from the killer's father, and Jack jumps in with:

 

"Harrigan did it because he's a Mick? detective Logan is a Mick, I'm a Mick, Sir... (trying to use Stone's phrase, eh?)"And if you don't shut up, I'LL lose Control and throw you out of the room!"

 

While Logan sits there all calm, his fingers steepled over his mouth. Then Jack looks at the kid, Stewart and tells him to take off his cap.  I think it's later in the episode, when they gather more punk kids, when Mike knocks off a cap of one of their heads! I just fucking love this scene!

 

ETA: and it wasn't just one cap or hat! Hee! Mike went down the line and flicked off a cap/hat on two or three!  Loved that the last we see of him, is Mike grabbing one punk by the collar and saying "Let's you and me have a conversation" and takes him out.

Edited July 2, 2014 by GHScorpiosRule

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm feelin' mghty lonely here...ain't anyone else watching Mike's final season on Sundance??!!!!

[Princess Sparkle]

And now I'm watching Switch.  The Multiple Personality Disorder perp.  It is so full or such eyeroll cliches.

 

 

I never thought I'd say this, but I actually thought SVU handled this much better with Alternate.  I'll admit though, I can't remember if the perp in Switch was faking or not like there were on SVU, but at the very least, Cynthia Nixon was a much better actress.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Princess Sparkle

[GHScorpiosRule]

I never thought I'd say this, but I actually thought SVU handled this much better with Alternate.  I'll admit though, I can't remember if the perp in Switch was faking or not like there were on SVU, but at the very least, Cynthia Nixon was a much better actress.

 

No. Megan, in "Switch" wasn't faking it.  And like I said upthread, though it was eye-rolling, Francie Swift really did a good job playing three different people.

[FormerMod-a1]

I just saw the end of Precious.  I never understood the husband.  "You're a good person, I just don't know why you do this"  WTH???  Your wife has been killing your babies!  I can kind of maybe see understanding she has a psychological problem, but COME ON!  He was just so passive, and supportive?  It took pregnancy number 3(?) and baby 4(?) to want to "get her help"???  (There was an adoption in there somewhere, but I forget the exact numbers). 

[WendyCR72]

I just saw the end of Precious.  I never understood the husband.  "You're a good person, I just don't know why you do this"  WTH???  Your wife has been killing your babies!  I can kind of maybe see understanding she has a psychological problem, but COME ON!  He was just so passive, and supportive?  It took pregnancy number 3(?) and baby 4(?) to want to "get her help"???  (There was an adoption in there somewhere, but I forget the exact numbers). 

 

I remember this episode. And all I could think of was how SPINELESS the husband was. And co-dependent. I mean, this woman MURDERED YOUR KIDS. The whole thing was just...sad. And disturbing.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Do NOT get me started on "Precious", though I have to admit, they got the casting so PERFECT with Julie Boyd.

 

Let me backtrack a bit, as I was watching "Second Opinion" which hit pretty close to home, since the last time I saw it, I couldn't really relate.  (Bear with me, y'all, as I feel most of you are friends from the old board and other forums).  Watching this, just makes me...I don't know, grateful that things have changed so much and are a lot better for those of us who get Breast Cancer, which I was diagnosed with two months ago, today, actually. I pretty much was practical about it and didn't care if I had to lop off a breast, so did the surgery and am currently undergoing chemo. (I'm fortunate--we caught it early so prognosis is good).

 

Ahem.

 

Back to the episode. I'd like to think that the one scene where that wife told Claire how there were cameras and multiple people in the room while taking pictures of her was creative, dramatic license, because that was not my experience; nor was there any condescension.  Then again, this was also almost 20 years ago. 

 

That said, my grandmother had to have surgery and she wasn't "massacred" like a lot of the women in this episode said they didn't want to be. I know because I took care of her post-surgery.

 

I guess I don't really have a point, except to say, how now that I KNOW, I can never see this episode in the same light, and I'm TOTALLY on Jack's side against Nancy Haas, that bitch.

 

Sorry for the TMI.

[Spartan Girl]

No I totally agree, ScoripoRule.  I hated how the women in that episode complained about being "massacred"; I understand why they might feel that way, but it's better than being DEAD, for goodness' sakes.  And lots of women have had breast surgery that went on to live completely healthy normal lives!

Best of luck and prayers to your grandmother.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Spartan Girl

[GHScorpiosRule]

No I totally agree, ScoripoRule.  I hated how the women in that episode complained about being "massacred"; I understand why they might feel that way, but it's better than being DEAD, for goodness' sakes.  And lots of women have had breast surgery that went on to live completely healthy normal lives!

Best of luck and prayers to your grandmother.

 

 

Thanks SpartanGirl, My Grandmother is fine. Her mastectomies took place 15 years apart 20 years ago, and she didn't do the chemo.  It's me who has to deal with the chemo for the next few months.

 

But yeah, the fact that these women would rather be dead than live with a not so perfectly shaped breast aggravated me to no end.

[Spartan Girl]

Good luck to you too, ScorpioRule.  I hope everything works out for you as well.

[Maherjunkie]

Rey of light Curtis comes on today on WGN.  I guess I'll be thumb twiddling at 2pm for awhile.

[wanderingstar]

Watching Mike Logan's last episode. Daniel Hugh Kelly is typecast in my mind as only playing bad guys - largely because of his various roles in this franchise! Occupational hazard, I guess.

[Maherjunkie]

What network was this, Gillian?

[wanderingstar]

Maherjunkie, I believe it was TNT.

[Maherjunkie]

Thank you.  I hear the words "Mike Logan's last episode" and automatically the Diana Ross classic "Touch me in the morning" comes to mind.

[dalek]

GHScorpiosRule, i agree with you about the mastectomy episode.  I kind of wonder if the (probably all male) writers room had massively out of date medical information that they were working with.  My mom had breast cancer back in 1981.  Because she was node positive, in addition to the modified radical mastectomy, she also underwent chemotherapy afterwords.  The procedure in no way "massacred" her, although the chemo was certainly unpleasant.  She's been cancer free for 33 years.  At that time, after the procedure, she was in the hospital for 3 days afterwards.  I have to wonder if the writers were picturing the original radical mastectomy procedure, which in addition to removing the whole breast, basically excised everything in the immediate vicinity and it was not unheard of for a woman to lose the use of or be severely limited in her ability to use the arm on the side where the breast was removed.  But by the time of the Law and Order episode, no one was performing a radical mastectomy and lumpectomies were an option and if you were node negative you probably weren't doing chemo.  

 

which is not to make light of the loss of a body part and the damage chemo and radiation can do, and any surgery has its risks, but as presented in the episode, I thought it made the women who opted for for the "alternate" treatment as a first recourse look kind of stupid and hysterical.  

[wanderingstar]

I always forget how disturbing an episode "Performance" is. 

[Arcadiasw]

While I don't support murder or murder for hire I can understand why some characters on L&O resort to that such as the case in "Purple Heart." I would've been so pissed if my husband took $15K out of our account without consulting me let alone using the money to pay a loan shark not to mention the other things he did that hurt her as she was starting her business.
 

[GHScorpiosRule]

There was something weird going on with Noth's hair in "Bad Faith."

 

During his testimony, his hair was combed back, and I don't know if it was the lighting, but it looked like that wonderful mane of his was streaked with gray--something that would have made more sense if he were 10 years older.  Then, with the finale, "Pride" we I was able to see he had his gorgeous hair back again. Wonder if "Bad Faith" was filmed last.  

 

Still, it was odd; it was only in that episode it looked that way; because even when he returned, he only had the slight greying at the temples, which, just looked sexier. Because, the rest of the hair? Still there.

[wanderingstar]

And also? I always felt totally skeeved out with Claire and McCoy boning. So unprofessional.

I wasn't skeeved out about it, but I was also very meh on their relationship. 

Edited February 7, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[WendyCR72]

Thank you.  I hear the words "Mike Logan's last episode" and automatically the Diana Ross classic "Touch me in the morning" comes to mind.

 

And Noth actually got that sort of honor twice, as there's the same blurb whenever his last L&O: CI episode comes up in the guide.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I wasn't skeeved out about it, but I was also very meh on their relationship. 

 

 

I'll be honest: their relationship totally went over my head. It wasn't until Season 7's episode where Jack went after that drunk driver that clued me in.  And upon several rewatches, I see it.  And from the dialogue, I didn't see Jack and Claire as being together just to have sex; there was emotion behind it, which is why the term "boning" bothers me. For me, when someone is boning, I see it with none of the more tender emotions involved.  And even upon rewatches, it doesn't skeeve me out, but I do side-eye Jack, that he always ends up having relationships with every single assistant. It stopped after Claire, thank goodness.

[wanderingstar]

I'll be honest: their relationship totally went over my head. It wasn't until Season 7's episode where Jack went after that drunk driver that clued me in.

 

Same here. And like you, it's only upon re-watch that I notice all the allusions to it. I also agree that their relationship seemed to be more than sex for its own sake. I'm just indifferent to the pairing. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

And even upon rewatches, it doesn't skeeve me out, but I do side-eye Jack, that he always ends up having relationships with every single assistant. It stopped after Claire, thank goodness.

 

Which was likely just as well, since Neal was still on the periphery of Jamie's life, and I can only imagine what that little creep would have done about his ex getting involved with her boss. Although the idea of Jack trying to make a move on Abbie is oddly hilarious, at least if you're me.

[wanderingstar]

Although the idea of Jack trying to make a move on Abbie is oddly hilarious, at least if you're me.

I can only imagine the bitchface Abby would have given him if he'd tried it. And yes, that does make me chuckle.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[GHScorpiosRule]

So, "Performance" was on last week, I think it was, and I have to say, I really love how near the end, after the original verdict was overturned, Jack had the entire basketball team arrested.  One of Shane's (rapist played by Peter Facinelli) buds, and co-rapists, Ethan Quinn cooperated. But not willingly. What made me laugh, and it really shouldn't have considering the crime and how it still affects me whenever I hear Corrie's screaming No, before her face is muffled and then Shane shoots the gun, is how Ethan's father Tells HIM to tell the truth. Why does it make me laugh? Because Ethan's father is like a head and a half shorter than Ethan. Yet, even though Ethan is bigger, he's afraid of his Daddy, and tells the truth, after saying nothing for the first minute or so.  It's something I apprecciated and still do appreciate, that there are parents out there, who still have control over their children.

 

Unlike the rapist's father.  Who said the girls were asking for it.  No wonder Shane didn't think he did anything wrong or that raping Corrie, was just him, "helping her" get over her "cold feet."  Even when Jack and Claire get him to admit he raped her, and he says "yeah, I raped her" whatever. You can tell he doesn't believe he raped her.

 

But two years? For first degree rape?

[radishcake]

how it still affects me whenever I hear Corrie's screaming No, before her face is muffled and then Shane shoots the gun, 

 

But two years? For first degree rape?

Oh man, the faces when the detective's see her open the door too. Damn. I can't watch this one any more because of her screaming. It's such a good episode too. Honestly though I'm surprised he didn't get time served. Two years for a rape is a lot of jail time sadly.

[Arcadiasw]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 5:26 PM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

 

Which was likely just as well, since Neal was still on the periphery of Jamie's life, and I can only imagine what that little creep would have done about his ex getting involved with her boss. Although the idea of Jack trying to make a move on Abbie is oddly hilarious, at least if you're me.

I imagine Abbie giving Jack the same look she had in "Sideshow" when she learned about Diane Hawthorne's relationship with Jack. Her facial expression was hilarious! 

[Arcadiasw]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 0:22 AM, Gillian Rosh said:

Same here. And like you, it's only upon re-watch that I notice all the allusions to it. I also agree that their relationship seemed to be more than sex for its own sake. I'm just indifferent to the pairing. 

Only when I caught "Trophy" in syndication did I suspect a relationship and when it was confirmed, I was "Um, okay." Even though it started in "Second Opinion" where Jack was the pursuer here, I wonder if it started while Claire worked for Ben. I imagine Jack probably attempted to make conversations with Claire off screen like in the office kitchen getting coffee. Jack went to Adam and requested Claire be assigned to him as soon as Ben resigned. Claire was smart doing her homework on Jack but whatever unfavorable opinion she had about Jack and his relationships with female assistance changed because she was obviously comfortable with Jack changing his clothes in front of her. Yeah, there was a door but what male boss changes in front of his female coworker like that? This wasn’t the Mad Men era. No way would Jack do that in front of Jamie or Abbie.

I don’t think it was just sexual. Maybe in the beginning it was but I also don’t think it was a deep relationship leading to forever. ‘Trophy’ in my opinion was the beginning of the end of Jack and Claire. By the end of season six, Claire was clearly over them and ready to move on but Jack wasn’t willing to let go until he had no choice with her death.

 

Even though I was indifferent to the relationship, I do chuckle at how the actors played it at times. There were episodes where things were reference that made you think of Jack and Claire's relationship. I think it was the Au Pair episode where Jack, Claire and the defendant attorney were in the office and attorney mentioned kids to Claire and she said she wasn't having any anytime soon and the cameras cut to Jack smiling as if he was in on the joke.

[Ailianna]

Can you imagine the fan boards if there had been an internet back then?  People arguing endlessly over each look and comment, and if it meant something or was just TPTB trolling fans, and the people saying that "obviously they're doing it!" versus "clearly they are too professional to sleep together while working together!"  It would have been interesting to see the discussion, before it was confirmed in "Aftershock." 

[Arcadiasw]

There was a Jack or a Jack and Claire fansite from years ago that studied each look or touch between Jack and Claire. I thought that was a stretch but with social media now, it would've been insane especially as we see how passionate some fans can be online about characters. Team A over Team B and meshing the names together, starting fights over fictitious characters. Ross and Rachel from Friends and Niles and Daphne from Frasier was already popular. Imagine if there was twitter, tumblr or facebook then when these shows were on.

[Arcadiasw]

Caught "Wannabe" this morning. As funny it was seeing Logan flip off the hats of the boys in the interrogation room, I think we missed some comedy gold when Logan  interrogated a smart mouth child off screen.

[Spartan Girl]

I don't like "Wannabe" on the basis that I feel like they were trying to make us feel sorry for the killer just because he was poor and Irish. Yes, the kids and their families were snobs but he killed a man on his daughter's birthday and his dad was accessory after the fact. Nothing justifies that. And yet we're supposed to empathize with him just because he's too "noble" to rat out the other punks that helped him? Please.

[Ailianna]

I think it's part of the L&O DNA that we are supposed to understand, in many episodes, what drove the person to it, and even empathize with their situation but without necessarily excusing the behavior.  And I think we were also supposed to be disgusted by the rich families.  (Though I can't really recall any episode that made rich people seem like they could also be decent people.)  The only time it kind of works on me is the episode where 80 year old Lonnie Jackson kills the younger man who cheated him out of the house he had worked his whole life to buy and live in.  I still don't agree with the killing, but I think Mr. Jackson would have been a formidable man at any time.

In real life, most murders are the result of stupidity and pettiness, with a dash of inferiority and need for ego thrown in.  But that doesn't make good TV,

[Cobalt Stargazer]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don't like "Wannabe" on the basis that I feel like they were trying to make us feel sorry for the killer just because he was poor and Irish. Yes, the kids and their families were snobs but he killed a man on his daughter's birthday and his dad was accessory after the fact. Nothing justifies that. And yet we're supposed to empathize with him just because he's too "noble" to rat out the other punks that helped him? Please.

As many issues as I have with Jack, I liked the way he snapped at the lawyer who was talking about the kid's 'Irish temper'.

"Oh, Harrigan did it because he's a Mick? Detective Logan's a Mick. I'm a Mick, sir, and if you don't shut up, I'm going to lose control and throw you out oof the room."

That said, the kid's decision to take the entire weight of the crime because of some bullshit about his individualism? Yeah, stupid, particularly when the father he admired so much was practically pleading with him not to throw his life away. Its a nice thought on paper, but in practice it doesn't work for me.

[Spartan Girl]

Plus, and I hate to say it, but all he did was prove all the snobs right about him being a punk delinquent.

[Maherjunkie]

On 3/13/2016 at 4:18 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

 

 

But two years? For first degree rape?

If he had  been a swimmer in this day and age it would be 6 months.

On 7/9/2016 at 0:49 PM, Arcadiasw said:

Caught "Wannabe" this morning. As funny it was seeing Logan flip off the hats of the boys in the interrogation room, I think we missed some comedy gold when Logan  interrogated a smart mouth child off screen.

Word.  Didn't really care for this ep except for the fact that Logan was in it a lot.  But I still don't know what a circle jerk is.

[editorgrrl]

On July 17, 2016 at 4:42 AM, Maherjunkie said:

Didn't really care for this ep [season 5 episode 16, "Wannabe"], except for the fact that Logan was in it a lot.  But I still don't know what a circle jerk is.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/lexicon_valley/2016/06/21/what_exactly_is_a_circle_jerk.html

Mike asks, "What did the kid do, stage a circle jerk in the locker room?" To which Lennie responds, "Worse—probably brought some of mom's corned beef and cabbage to the school tea party."

[Maherjunkie]

I can't believe they let that on tv!  I had to look up frugging too.

[WendyCR72]

It was unintentional foreshadowing, but "Second Opinion" aired on WE last night, a.k.a. Jack McCoy's arrival, and the episode with the breast cancer patient who dies with cyanide emanating from her body, and it was sort of prescient to see Van Buren eating pizza with Logan and Briscoe, talking about what she'd do if she ever got "the Big C".

Obviously, she did get it years later, but it was funny how she told Logan and Briscoe that she'd be spending it with her hubby and kids and not eating pizza with them. (And when she did get it, she and her husband had split and she still worked! Best laid plans...)

Just so odd how this turned into foreshadowing...