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S04.E18: A Dark Knight: That's Entertainment

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The Arkham inmates are still running freely in Gotham and they're only getting more difficult to catch. Gordon develops a plan, but reluctantly has to turn to Bruce for help. Meanwhile, Barbara finds out just how far her new friends are willing to go for her.

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When Barbara was in the vault I thought "Hey do you think her parents would finally be proud of her?"   When Tabitha got kicked out and met the mysterious dudes who probably work for the no women in charge group I thought her parents would think "Of course Barbara would be a false profit."  

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Not the greatest of episodes, but there have been worse.

I laughed at the music festival. Kind of...lackluster.

I do like that the first Batmobile is a Mustang, though.

I'm curious how they manage to save Oswald. Probably won't get the details. That way they won't have to explain it.

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43 minutes ago, WritinMan said:

I do like that the first Batmobile is a Mustang, though.

Bulletproof to boot!  And I had to smile that Alfred made Bruce a Bundt cake.  I'll fanwalk that was his favourite kind as a kid. 

I was yelling at the TV "No Jeremiah!  DO NOT OPEN THE---ah well.  It was bound to happen." 

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More awesomeness this week. Fave tiny part . . . Jerome's band "playing," and one lady getting into it. She's aware that he's insane, his cohorts are only slightly better, and that she could die at any second. But, fuck it, have fun if you're gonna go out. Die with a smile on your face. Maybe Jerome had the right idea.

Awesome that Bruce is becoming great again. He's gonna feel dumb when he finds out the guy he killed isn't dead-dead. So many months wasted in his own private abyss. Meanwhile, Barbara goes off the deep end. Y'know, again. Remember the episode of The Simpsons where Homer gets into Thomas Edison and doesn't shut the fuck up about it? Same deal, only Homer doesn't have a crew to kill anybody that tells hi to can it. Of course Tabitha feels betrayed, and her new friends immediately drug her. Oh, and there's a portrait of Ra's and Barbara from 400 years ago. Hey, why not? Seriously, cross Gotham with Legends of Tomorrow, and no one would notice. Lucius and Ray could try to technobabble each other into submission, Firefly and Mick could compare souped-up flamethrowers, and Sara could clean up the city in two days.

RIP Jerome. They said he was dead. There was a body. That said, he's probably sharing a secured hospital room with Sofia. I like Dominic Monaghan . . . .but if Jeremiah collapses, forms a cocoon  around himself, and doesn't burst out until the end of the series? That would be for the best.

Oswald saves the day! Love how he causes lots of bullshit, yet he's unable to deal with the bullshit from everyone else. "Can I just be the crime lord of Gotham?!? Fuck it, I won't give out licenses to commit crimes! Say what you will about me, but at least I don't get my jollies exploding heads! Too messy, Jim!!!"

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At the music festival, when Jim and the other cops pull up, Jerome's band is playing the 1966 Batman theme.  And Jerome's whole death sequence, right down to the green plaid pants, was a tribute to Nicholson's death in 1989.

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34 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Fave tiny part . . . Jerome's band "playing," and one lady getting into it.

That was hilarious! I guess when you go to a music festival in Gotham, you kind of half expect something like this to happen and just go with it. Gotham gonna Gotham. I do wonder what a Gotham music festival would be like. A mix of indie rock, polka, and big band? 

Penguin to the rescue! I figured that his partnership with Jerome and his merry band of nutballs wouldn't last very long. Penguin isnt exactly a picture of mental health, but he isnt a batshit crazy anarchist. He wants to run Gotham, not watch it burn. I also enjoyed him and Jim meeting up and working together a bit. I always enjoy their scenes. 

So Jerome is dead for real now? Sure...

The first Batmobile is a Mustang! Awesome! Bruce is already becoming more Batman by the day. 

Of course Babs goes nuts with power in about five minutes, and Tabitha smells a rat. I admit, I would enjoy watching the melodramatic LoA drama with Tabby in the background just groaning and rolling her eyes. 

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So, now some other mysterious group shows up and claims that Barbara's Ra's was actually a fake and they're working for the real one!  And they've just taken Tabitha, who will probably have some motivation to join (once that knock-out stuff wears off!), since Babs didn't just dump her, but let her new buddies beat her ass.  This whole plot is getting nuttier by the minute!

Is Jerome finally done for?  I'm thinking yes, and that his brother will now go on to become the real Joker, since he just got hit with the "special gas" at the very end.  His plan was also thwarted thanks to Oswald of all people, but that still leaves Tetch, Crane, Freeze, and Firefly all out, running amock.  So many possibilities!

The worst think Jerome did tonight was ruin Bruce's little birthday meal with Selina with his antics.  Well, maybe not the worst thing, but still a low blow.  Way to kill the romance, Jerome!

So, Peter McRobbie's the new mayor.  Yeah, lets see how long that will last!

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I’m with Tabby on not being down with the League of Shadows bullshit. But I don’t know if her new friends are any better. A part of me kinda hopes that painting is a fake and was all set up to get Babs on board. But I guess Ra’s himself will be back soon and we’ll know. 

Jerome was pretty damn good, I am really looking forward to seeing if they can make Jeremiah just as good or better. 

Baby Batmobile, brought to you by FORD. (Though I’m fine with that - if Ford wants to throw money at the show to help keep it on the air, it’s all good).

Oswald helps save the city and Jim is still kind of a dick to him. I hope once he was back on terra firma Oswald had someone drive him over to Jim’s house so he could burn it to the ground.

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Yeah, I enjoyed this one. Maybe a bit over the top but what "Gotham" episode isn't? Jerome finally gets the send off he richly deserves but manages to 'live on" through his brother, who I think we can all safely assume will be the eventual Joker. Cameron Monaghan is really fun to watch as Jerome and I swear at times in this episode I can see him channeling Jack Nicholson-who has always been my favorite Joker-until now. Poor Oswald, Jerome and his minions were too crazy even for him. I liked the level of disgust in his voice when he described Jerome's lack of interest in money and power to Gordon. Speaking of which Gordon was....well, Gordon. Not particularly annoying or maybe he's finally just growing on me. Not enough Harvey but there never is.

As for the Barbara plotline. ::Sighs:: I love Erin Richards. I loved the way she played Barbara at the end of season one and through most of seasons two and three. Cray-Cray Babs is a joy to watch. This version bores me to tears. Tabitha is boring me to tears. Enough with this storyline already.

Bruce and Alfred celebrating Bruce's birthday were gold, as was Selena's party crashing. I really like that family dynamic.

 

7/10

Edited by Philbert
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34 minutes ago, Philbert said:

Yeah, I enjoyed this one. Maybe a bit over the top but what "Gotham" episode. Jerome finally gets the send off he richly deserves but manages to 'live on" through his brother, who I think we can all safely assume will be the eventual Joker. Cameron Monaghan is really fun to watch as Jerome and I swear at times in this episode I can see him channeling Jack Nicholson-who has always been my favorite Joker-until now. Poor Oswald, Jerome and his minions were too crazy even for him. I liked the level of disgust in his voice when he described Jerome's lack of interest in money and power to Gordon. Speaking of which Gordon was....well, Gordon. Not particularly annoying or maybe he's finally just growing on me. Not enough Harvey but there never is.

As for the Barbara plotline. ::Sighs:: I love Erin Richards. I loved the way she played Barbara at the end of season one and through most of seasons two and three. Cray-Cray Babs is a joy to watch. This version bores me to tears. Tabitha is boring me to tears. Enough with this storyline already.

Bruce and Alfred celebrating Bruce's birthday were gold, as was Selena's party crashing. I really like that family dynamic.

 

7/10

Cameron Monaghan is absolutely brilliant in these roles; he even looks like he is having the best time of his life.  RIP Jerome. 

I cannot get into the Demon's head storyline at all.  I totally agree that crazy Babs is the best version of Barbara; Erin Richards played that so well.  I don't really know what purpose Tabby serves either; I would much rather see Harvey get the screen time devoted to this storyline. 

I love Alfred's scenes with Bruce.  Glad to see that they are back on track. 

And I agree there's never enough Harvey.  Gotham needs a Harvey-centric episode; Season 1 was the last time we saw this. 

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Bruce going in for the hug with Alfred was everything. I loved it.

All I wanted was for C.M. to play The Joker, as he did such a standout job as the proto-Joker I couldn't imagine enjoying anyone else in the part on Gotham.

So I guess in this version of the Bats story, Jerome kind of gives birth to both The Batman ("The Gentle Art of Making Enemies") and The Joker. That's why they had the funhouse of mirrors in the previouslies.

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The things I find interesting about this show apparently no one else does.  At least not enough to write compelling stories over long periods of time.  I get that the main characters are always going to be Jim, Bruce, and Penguin but (and this is an unpopular opinion) I wouldn’t mind if they all took a back seat for a few episodes and let some of the supporting cast have some fun for more then one or even (gasp) two episodes in a row.

Instead of the stupid Jerome plot I would have loved to see what Lee and Riddler were up to.  Add Penguin to it and you have an entertaining triangle of either doom or mayhem.  Probably both.  Now Thats entertainment.

Am I the only one who thinks the dudes who kidnapped Tabby are of the “No woman can be Demon Head”  variety.  Unless the alt-Demon Head is actually James Callis  any other man is exceptionally tone deaf.  A female Demon Head is an amazing storyline and unless the dude is actually the false one I will hate it so much it might turn me off the show.

There I said it.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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I loved Selina showing up at poor lonely Bruce's birthday and the bullet proof mustang that Alfred got him. Perhaps they should take it to Lucius to make some upgrades. :D 

So Barbara's a past life wife of Ra's. Well that explains why he choose her. I was wondering about that. Now the No girls allowed club took Tabitha to real or fake Ra's. 

Still hate the Jeremiah is the actual Joker storyline, now his lame backstory is he got blasted with crazy laughing gas by his twin and is now the Joker.  I liked Jerome just being crazy and I liked what we saw of his backstory. I saw the Joker in him without anything special being the cause. Jeremiah is just going to be a repeat except we can call him the Joker. 

Lee and Ed should've been robbing banks when all this was going on. No one would've been paying attention to them. 

Edited by Sakura12
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10 hours ago, mtlchick said:

I was yelling at the TV "No Jeremiah!  DO NOT OPEN THE---ah well.  It was bound to happen." 

Perhaps I am just seeing things, but it looked like  Jeremiah was working on a component that is used in a future version of the Batmobile.  That sure looked like the cone flaming  end of the 1966 model.

Surely, Alfred can do better than a bundt cake for Bruce's birthday cake.  And nothing but a drizzle of frosting? 

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1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

The things I find interesting about this show apparently no one else does.  At least not enough to write compelling stories over long periods of time.  I get that the main characters are always going to be Jim, Bruce, and Penguin but (and this is an unpopular opinion) I wouldn’t mind if they all took a back seat for a few episodes and let some of the supporting cast have some fun for more then one or even (gasp) two episodes in a row.

Instead of the stupid Jerome plot I would have loved to see what Lee and Riddler were up to.  Add Penguin to it and you have an entertaining triangle of either doom or mayhem.  Probably both.  Now Thats entertainment.

I think that’s what we’re getting next week. I don’t have any spoilers, but just based on episode descriptions, I think Jeremiah lays low for an episode or two, and we’ll see what Ed and Lee are up to. But Jim (unfortunately) never takes a backseat. It’s in the contract.

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5 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Surely, Alfred can do better than a bundt cake for Bruce's birthday cake.  And nothing but a drizzle of frosting? 

Bruce is so rich he can have anything, anytime.

Maybe he just really likes bundt cakes?

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2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Instead of the stupid Jerome plot I would have loved to see what Lee and Riddler were up to.  Add Penguin to it and you have an entertaining triangle of either doom or mayhem.  Probably both.  Now Thats entertainment.

I agree with this.  I am not a big fan of the Jerome/Jeremiah Joker storyline

At times it is kind of hard to hate Penguin.  In this episode, he was kind of the comic relief,  I can envision him still circling the river.

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I guess Jerome is now dead for real this time and Jeremiah will take on the Joker mantle. Fine by me, loved the last scene.

The main diversion was amusing enough but I loved that Oswald was actually the one to stop the laughing gas from infecting the city while Gordon was a bit more competent this week.

Babs being in over her head with this Demon's Head stuff was predictable but it seems like Tabitha has probably been taken by a worse bunch than Babs followers at the moment.

Nice little scenes with Bruce, Alfred and Selina with the former's birthday as well, 8/10

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I guess I am sitting at my own table, because not only is the Babs story line boring me, but I am over the Penguin and Ed. I do still like Tabitha and Lee but hate the path their story is going. And shocker, I am a fan of Jim. Of course their needs to be more Harvey. Bruce, Alfred, and Selina are among my favorites too. 

And. lastly, I liked Jerome's brand of crazy. It is the most authentically Gotham crazy: JUST BATSHIT! However, I am on the fence with why they are switching to Jeremiah, especially without establishing that Jeremiah was just as batshit crazy as Jerome before being sprayed with the gas. It just made more sense (if my canon of the relationship between Batman and the Joker is right) that the history of Batman and The Joker be intertwined, and I thought that is what they were trying to establish with Bruce and Jerome (although not very well). Jeremiah is no more intertwined with Bruce as say Oswald or Ed are. So....

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1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Surely, Alfred can do better than a bundt cake for Bruce's birthday cake.  And nothing but a drizzle of frosting? 

I'm not much of a frosting fan, to the point that I end up scraping it off more often than not, so I assume Bruce has similar preferences.  The way the scene was presented it seemed like Alfred's bundt was part of the yearly celebration, so I think he just makes a really good one and Bruce never wanted anything else.

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Bruce can't even celebrate his birthday without being held hostage by a madman! I love that he really has become a big damn hero now after months of spiralling in alcohol and partying. Also - BATMOBILE!

I burst out laughing when Penguin rang Jim reminding him he was still on the blimp.

It's like they've completely pulled back on Alfred in the last number of episodes. He didn't appear in a few episodes and in a few others he was in it for 2 minutes. I don't know why this is - I foolishly believed they were going to give him more focus this season.

I hope Jeremiah is a good Joker. I'm not sure how I feel about the implication that he's just a creation of Jerome's though.

And...Ra's al Ghul isn't dead for good to the surprise of absolutely no one!

Edited by superloislane
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I was yelling at the TV "No Jeremiah!  DO NOT OPEN THE---ah well.  It was bound to happen." 

Me, watching Jerome open WHAT IS CLEARLY A TRAP: "You brought this on yourself. "

Seriously, the guy's so paranoid about his brother that he built an underground labyrinth and has Ecco running point in a truly shitty apartment (YOU COULD DO BETTER BY HER, DUDE) and he, having literally just walked in the door from his maniac sibling's latest elaborately ridiculous head-blowing off attempt to murder him, sees a mysterious package on his desk and, knowing his security has been previously breached by his erstwhile bro's equally lunatic followers, just proceeds to open it up with nary a nevermind? MORON. 

(Yes, they at least set up Bruce offering him a grant and Jerome put Wayne Enterprises on the tag, but please. I knew paranoia. Paranoia was a friend of mine, You, sir, are a disgrace to paranoia.)

But anyway! This one was okay; more a lot of bits than a cohesive whole, like when you put off going to the grocery store and end up eating a bunch of odds and ends out of the fridge for dinner, but still, enjoyable. 

Jerome's backup band of nutters was surprisingly tight! Better than the lame-os who were playing when they took the stage. I wonder when they practice? I also wonder who in the hell would attend any public offering in Gotham these days, but I guess if you've made your peace with living there, rock out.

Awww, Bruce and his bundt cake! Bundt cake is surprisingly difficult to make well, and that frosting was perfectly dripped over it, so yay Alfred! Also, fantastic choice of birthday present. Bruce looked so delighted I wondered if he was going to lose his virginity to that car! Not that I blame him.

Selina's popping to say many happy returns and score dessert was easily one of the best bits of the episode, especially when Jim and Lucious drop by to ruin everything and tell him he's got to risk getting his head blown off. The entire time they're talking all serious, Selina's in the background eating! Never misses a bite! Hey, Gotham is Gotham, but cake is cake, amirite?

Penguin, I am TOTALLY on your side r.e., driving a BLIMP. As a fellow non-driver, his panicking as he swerved about the sky was way too on the nose for my comfort level. I seriously wonder if Robin drives in real life (and have they ever shown Penguin driving?) I love how he was  counting on Jerome being a one hit wonder and really freaking out when he realized that he truly had no boundaries or limits and didn't care if the entire city was a heap of rubble. (This was especially underlined when Scarecrow melted the first blimp pilot, then Hatter asked if the other guy could fly the thing by himself. Wrong order of priorities, guys.) Oswald's disgust at Jerome's lack of respect for money, power, and structure is hilarious, and how it puts him on Jim's side of things--I am a humble, honest criminal, Jim! Also, I'm living pretty damn openly for somebody who escaped Arkham and you never arrest me so we clearly see eye to eye on most subjects!

Bab's power trip is getting a little boring; most power trips are. And Tabby really has nothing to do because she's always written as somebody's girlfriend. Her brother's (BLECH), Butch's, Barbara's. She and Selina barely interact at all even when she's supposed to be mentoring her. The whole Demon's Head thing is shaping up to be kind of a waste of time, but if it ends up giving Erin Richards something to do, okay.

Edited by Snookums
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I loved the bundt cake because it was perfectly iced. I assume Alfred watches a lot of The Great British Bake Off. Mary Berry would certain approve of that cake. 

Other things I noticed on rewatch - Alfred’s story about Bruce being obsessed with building a secret house for his new wagon, the fact that the Joker was born on Bruce’s birthday, and the rando who yelled out “Who cares!” when Jerome was going on about his terrible childhood (and for half a second I thought it was Jim who yelled that, and that I was going to have to make him my favorite character).

Also noticed how much the GCPD continue to suck - Jim doesn’t evacuate the crowd until the blimp shows up. I thought it was because Jerome had threatened to kill people in then crowd, but nope. Just hadn’t occurred to Jim. And then after Jerome landed on that car and even though the place was crawling with cops, no one secured the scene and people were just picking at Jerome’s corpse. It took Jim climbing down off the roof to come over and shoo people away.

Oswald can drive (he stole a police cruiser last season and I’m pretty sure he stole Jim/Harvey’s car at one point in season two), I think Oswald doesn’t drive as a matter of principle (he’s no one’s errand boy anymore. People drive him around now). Still doesn’t make driving a blimp any less daunting. 

But also, while Jim and Harvey were being dicks leaving him up there, he IS a criminal (honest or no), and Jim left him in possession of an assload of toxic gas. Oswald could have found another way down and taken off with what was a pretty serious biological weapon.

As for Tabs, she should have noticed by now that whenever Babs gets a taste of real power, she kicks her to the curb. You’d think that she’d just move on.

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letter-f.jpg

I don't really know what to say about this.

I'm not going to go through the usual beats, like why anyone would entertain the thought of even visiting Gotham and attending a music festival, let alone living in the city.

I don't believe there's even much I can say about this episode's content, because, yet again, it's more "crazy for the sake of crazy" and, yet again, there's no story.

Well, OK...it was cool to see the proto-Batmobile. Predictable it's a Mustang.

(Though, really, shouldn't it have been a Thunderbird?)

I also really like Bruce and Selina. Really wished the show began with the two of them being amateur vigilantes that eventually grow into the "real thing" later. This show has monumentally wasted their collective talents.

I'll also echo what others have said and thought the Jeremiah gas-out was a cop-out. I would have liked it better if Jerome drove Jeremiah so crazy that Jeremiah killed him with his bare hands. That would be infinitely more satisfying- and compelling- a reason for Jeremiah to eventually become "The Joker". Not just because it makes the transfer that much more personal and feels way less forced, but it would also be a microcosm of what this show was supposed to be- a slow descent from order to crazy, from structure to anarchy and from good to bad.

So Jeremiah getting clunked with laughing gas? Colour me unimpressed.

Oh, and I fail to see what's so "empowering" about this League of Shadows storyline. First, Barbara got the position only because a man gave it to her. Then all the League does is treat men like pinatas, which will satisfy some Tumblrinas but no one else. Then there's this stuff with Tabitha- either Ra's is going to stab Barbara in the back and "the men" take back control of the League or Barbara defeats Ra's and delivers some diatribe about "girl power" this show hasn't earned the right to give.

I hope I'm wrong, but I've never known this show to be really good with nuance or storycraft, especially since it's heyday in S1.

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I won't talk about how little Bullock was in this episode. That's apparent.

What I will say is that Bullock has been monumentally wasted as a character.

I know, that's also apparent...but, bear with me.

Here's the thing about Harvey Bullock- Donal Logue plays him with such warmth and feeling that all the bad things the character has done and is known for kind of get set aside.

I fanwank that Bullock does what he does because the city has crushed him to the point where has to be shady because he has no other choice, and secretly it pains him that the city is doing the same to Jim.

However, is it arguable that the show has established this in any capacity? I don't think so.

I've said it many times before: this show should have centred around Jim and Oswald as "proto-Bats" and "proto-Joker", with every other character organized along those lines.

Obviously, Bullock would be paired with Jim. Maybe Bullock's first act of the series would be the arrest of Falcone, bringing a finality to his enduring struggles to "clean up Gotham" and now that Falcone has been brought to heal, Bullock can finally say that he did that.

Except that the same day Falcone is thrown in the slammer the Wayne parents are murdered, and this mysterious "Penguin" takes responsibility for it, sending an ominous message that Gotham is going to spiral back into the chaos it had just emerged from.

Bullock realizes the battle with Falcone took too much out of him, so he mentors Jim to take on the Penguin, preparing him every step of the way in this long battle.

Only that, in the shadows, is the Joker, and the knowledge that Jim will have to eventually mentor Bruce for the battle that he will eventually have to take up because Jim sees what will happen in the future.

The Joker in this case may not be the real threat that Oswald presents in real time, but he'll be a ticking time bomb- you just know one day he will be the threat.

I envision a show that's still a procedural- perhaps with "arcs of episodes" instead of self-contained single episode stories- with perhaps the show's final act being Oswald's arrest by Jim...but with Bruce taking up the Batsuit because The Joker finally exploded the same day Oswald got arrested.

Maybe that's more of a movie than a series...but it at least gives the story a focus. One this show has lacked for far too long.

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and the rando who yelled out “Who cares!” when Jerome was going on about his terrible childhood

I thought I was the only one who heard that! Yeah, Jerome sure loved the sound of his own voice.

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Jim, Jim, Jim, it's not "murder" to kill a psychopath.  When Jerome is hanging on the pole, just say "There's a third option" and shoot him in the head.

Hell, I would have viewed the hostages as goners and plugged Jerome right from the get-go.

On 4/12/2018 at 6:20 PM, WritinMan said:

I'm curious how they manage to save Oswald. Probably won't get the details. That way they won't have to explain it.

Doesn't Tetch's "spell" break if someone's been knocked unconscious?  I think that happened to Harvey a few episodes ago.  If so, when he wakes up, he can fly the blimp.

On 4/12/2018 at 7:05 PM, mtlchick said:

I was yelling at the TV "No Jeremiah!  DO NOT OPEN THE---ah well.  It was bound to happen." 

That was 17 kinds of stupid, and totally out of character.

On 4/13/2018 at 7:36 PM, superloislane said:

Ra's al Ghul isn't dead for good to the surprise of absolutely no one!

 

"It's Gotham, Jim."

5 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

this show should have centred around Jim and Oswald as "proto-Bats" and "proto-Joker", with every other character organized along those lines.

I'm not sure how you mean "proto-" here, since in your version Jim mentors Bruce and Penguin mentors the Joker.

14 hours ago, Snookums said:

Selina's popping to say many happy returns and score dessert was easily one of the best bits of the episode, especially when Jim and Lucious drop by to ruin everything and tell him he's got to risk getting his head blown off.

I would have Bruce telling Jim and Luscious that Jerome won't kill any of the hostages, and lose his leverage, until Bruce shows up.  "So pull up a chair and celebrate my birthday!"

Edited by jhlipton
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On 4/13/2018 at 5:59 AM, Miss Dee said:

So I guess in this version of the Bats story, Jerome kind of gives birth to both The Batman ("The Gentle Art of Making Enemies") and The Joker. That's why they had the funhouse of mirrors in the previouslies.

My apologies if it was a prior page in this thread where I saw it mentioned, but this also means that the Joker was "born" on Batman's birthday.

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10 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I'm not sure how you mean "proto-" here, since in your version Jim mentors Bruce and Penguin mentors the Joker.

Well, in my version baby Bats and baby Joker are not the main hero/villain pair (Jim and Oswald are) and don't yet have the tools that would allow them to be.

I also figure that since Oswald embraces "the crazy" while still liking order, he's the perfect "bridge from the orderly Falcone to the uh, "batsh@#" crazy Joker.

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20 hours ago, Kostgard said:

the fact that the Joker was born on Bruce’s birthday

Oh yeah!

20 hours ago, Kostgard said:

Jim doesn’t evacuate the crowd until the blimp shows up. I thought it was because Jerome had threatened to kill people in then crowd, but nope. Just hadn’t occurred to Jim.

I'm pretty sure Jim actually did say they needed to get those people out of there but Jerome threatened to kill the hostages if he did so Jim couldn't. (I can't believe I'm defending Jim Gordon's police work! That's never happened before)

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10 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Well, in my version baby Bats and baby Joker are not the main hero/villain pair (Jim and Oswald are) and don't yet have the tools that would allow them to be.

I also figure that since Oswald embraces "the crazy" while still liking order, he's the perfect "bridge from the orderly Falcone to the uh, "batsh@#" crazy Joker.

That makes sense.

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On 4/15/2018 at 2:57 PM, superloislane said:

I'm pretty sure Jim actually did say they needed to get those people out of there but Jerome threatened to kill the hostages if he did so Jim couldn't. (I can't believe I'm defending Jim Gordon's police work! That's never happened before)

At first yeah, but once the hostages were no longer an issue Gordon yells for everybody to evacuate and they just... stand around screaming instead of getting the hell out of there.

Oh show... you just had to be predictable didn't you? Everybody guessed from the moment Jeremiah appeared that he was going to take over the Joker shtick from Jerome. Don't even bother writers, you're not going to outdo Jerome as a proto Joker or actual Joker, you don't have it in you.

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2 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

Don't even bother writers, you're not going to outdo Jerome as a proto Joker or actual Joker, you don't have it in you.

At the very least the writers could have made "the transfer" more poignant by driving Jeremiah crazy instead of using a cheap cop-out like laughing gas.

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Jim, quit being so self righteous - Oswald came to you with Joker's plan. Why are you saying "If you're not going to help..."? What exactly did you know of what the Joker was planning before Oswald risked his life to talk to you?

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:26 PM, Snookums said:

Selina's popping to say many happy returns and score dessert was easily one of the best bits of the episode, especially when Jim and Lucious drop by to ruin everything and tell him he's got to risk getting his head blown off. The entire time they're talking all serious, Selina's in the background eating! Never misses a bite! Hey, Gotham is Gotham, but cake is cake, amirite?

Aww, Selina, you do care (even if you can't say it)! But it's totally in character for her to go, "Bruce, why are you such a martyr? Hey, free cake!"

Glad Tigress didn't take down the three assassins. I know she's badass, but the others are meant to be too. Though it's disappointing that, even as the head of a supersecrit criminal organisation, Babs still isn't her own person. And I guess TPTB weren't lying that Jerome wasn't the Joker (...probably), but that's a pretty lame answer. Though unless his brother objects... insist on a cremation!

Couple of reminders of older DC serieses - we had, "Look - up in the sky!" (Is it a bird? Is it a plane? Is it superman? No - it's a blimp full of toxic gas!) and the villains insisting on kidnapping Bruce Wayne in the 60s TV show (usually to draw out Batman - which did always work, but not quite how they expected).

On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 11:53 PM, Kostgard said:

Also noticed how much the GCPD continue to suck - Jim doesn’t evacuate the crowd until the blimp shows up.

Well, when they don't have any lines, they're easy to forget... I was more disappointed in the SWAT team who sent their snipers in without any cover. I'd prefer them to be bought off TBH, but they're just as incompetent as every other cop in Gotham.

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 1:52 PM, Sakura12 said:

I liked Jerome just being crazy and I liked what we saw of his backstory. I saw the Joker in him without anything special being the cause. Jeremiah is just going to be a repeat except we can call him the Joker. 

Agreed. Bad guys can't just be crazy, they have to be the reincarnation of the wife of an ancient evil or drugged up by their crazy brother. Couldn't we just have somebody who's evil just because?

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On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 2:20 AM, WritinMan said:

Not the greatest of episodes, but there have been worse.

I laughed at the music festival. Kind of...lackluster.

I do like that the first Batmobile is a Mustang, though.

I'm curious how they manage to save Oswald. Probably won't get the details. That way they won't have to explain it.

I can just see David Mazouz on a billboard for Ford. At the end Jim tells Oswald they'll get the reserve blimp pilot to talk him down, probably ditch it at sea and have Oswald picked up by the Coastguard 

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 4:06 AM, MarkHB said:

At the music festival, when Jim and the other cops pull up, Jerome's band is playing the 1966 Batman theme.  And Jerome's whole death sequence, right down to the green plaid pants, was a tribute to Nicholson's death in 1989.

Complete with a huge balloon(s) filled with deadly gas?

On ‎13‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 5:25 AM, Kostgard said:

I’m with Tabby on not being down with the League of Shadows bullshit. But I don’t know if her new friends are any better. A part of me kinda hopes that painting is a fake and was all set up to get Babs on board. But I guess Ra’s himself will be back soon and we’ll know. 

Jerome was pretty damn good, I am really looking forward to seeing if they can make Jeremiah just as good or better. 

Baby Batmobile, brought to you by FORD. (Though I’m fine with that - if Ford wants to throw money at the show to help keep it on the air, it’s all good).

Oswald helps save the city and Jim is still kind of a dick to him. I hope once he was back on terra firma Oswald had someone drive him over to Jim’s house so he could burn it to the ground.

Jim sees what Oswald is, a cowardly opportunist, nice to see him dangle for once. Interesting that he feels the need to hide him from Harvey?

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On ‎14‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:26 PM, Snookums said:

Me, watching Jerome open WHAT IS CLEARLY A TRAP: "You brought this on yourself. "

Seriously, the guy's so paranoid about his brother that he built an underground labyrinth and has Ecco running point in a truly shitty apartment (YOU COULD DO BETTER BY HER, DUDE) and he, having literally just walked in the door from his maniac sibling's latest elaborately ridiculous head-blowing off attempt to murder him, sees a mysterious package on his desk and, knowing his security has been previously breached by his erstwhile bro's equally lunatic followers, just proceeds to open it up with nary a nevermind? MORON. 

(Yes, they at least set up Bruce offering him a grant and Jerome put Wayne Enterprises on the tag, but please. I knew paranoia. Paranoia was a friend of mine, You, sir, are a disgrace to paranoia.)

But anyway! This one was okay; more a lot of bits than a cohesive whole, like when you put off going to the grocery store and end up eating a bunch of odds and ends out of the fridge for dinner, but still, enjoyable. 

Jerome's backup band of nutters was surprisingly tight! Better than the lame-os who were playing when they took the stage. I wonder when they practice? I also wonder who in the hell would attend any public offering in Gotham these days, but I guess if you've made your peace with living there, rock out.

Awww, Bruce and his bundt cake! Bundt cake is surprisingly difficult to make well, and that frosting was perfectly dripped over it, so yay Alfred! Also, fantastic choice of birthday present. Bruce looked so delighted I wondered if he was going to lose his virginity to that car! Not that I blame him.

Selina's popping to say many happy returns and score dessert was easily one of the best bits of the episode, especially when Jim and Lucious drop by to ruin everything and tell him he's got to risk getting his head blown off. The entire time they're talking all serious, Selina's in the background eating! Never misses a bite! Hey, Gotham is Gotham, but cake is cake, amirite?

Penguin, I am TOTALLY on your side r.e., driving a BLIMP. As a fellow non-driver, his panicking as he swerved about the sky was way too on the nose for my comfort level. I seriously wonder if Robin drives in real life (and have they ever shown Penguin driving?) I love how he was  counting on Jerome being a one hit wonder and really freaking out when he realized that he truly had no boundaries or limits and didn't care if the entire city was a heap of rubble. (This was especially underlined when Scarecrow melted the first blimp pilot, then Hatter asked if the other guy could fly the thing by himself. Wrong order of priorities, guys.) Oswald's disgust at Jerome's lack of respect for money, power, and structure is hilarious, and how it puts him on Jim's side of things--I am a humble, honest criminal, Jim! Also, I'm living pretty damn openly for somebody who escaped Arkham and you never arrest me so we clearly see eye to eye on most subjects!

Bab's power trip is getting a little boring; most power trips are. And Tabby really has nothing to do because she's always written as somebody's girlfriend. Her brother's (BLECH), Butch's, Barbara's. She and Selina barely interact at all even when she's supposed to be mentoring her. The whole Demon's Head thing is shaping up to be kind of a waste of time, but if it ends up giving Erin Richards something to do, okay.

Are we sure Bruce is still 'unknown of woman', did we not see him in bed with 2 nubile hotties during his prince Hal phase? Plus I wonder as to the relationship between her and Selina now that she's a big girl? Not that this would probably stop Tabby given her upbringing

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1. I miss Mayor James, his replacement just doesn't cut it for me. Guess we need a new Police Commissioner? (although why does he wear Sgts stripes? And why hasn't he a gun?).

2. So the Batmobile is a Ford? I wonder if sales will go up after this? They say you couldn't get a Trans Am for love nor money during Knightrider.

3. Love the scene where all the assassin girls bow down to worship Babs and she looks at Tabs as if to say 'You too?' and Babs looks tempted for a moment.  

4. My, my Selina looks so grown up these days, when she blows the candles out on Bruce's cake I kept thinking she'd ask him 'What did you wish for?' and he leers at all the cleavage she shows doing it and replies 'It came true' . Sad she had nothing else to do, maybe help Harvey take out Jerome's henchmen?

5. Notice how Jim is happy to use Oswald as his informant but keeps it secret from Harvey? 

6. So Scarecrow kills the blimp co-pilot and THEN Tetch asks the other guy can he pilot it alone? 

7. Bruce takes Firefly all by himself. Did Alfred not come with him?

8. So, no more Jerome? Well TIG and Babs just inherited a load of demon magic? Frankly if I were Jim I'd have Jerome cremated and scatter his ashes to the 4 winds. 

9. Sad to see Babs and Tabs break up, you feel for Tabs, she obviously loves her little pseudo-family/love triangle and now Bashir has ruined it all for her. She does pretty well against the assassins considering but you wonder why she has such a hard time accepting the cult when she was part of one herself?  

10. Nope, the picture does not look like Babs and I doubt Bashir will let her down gently. 

11. I expected some clever name for the band performing like 'The Heftis' but no. 

12. So now we have the Joker? Or is this just another mislead?

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On rewatch I noticed a lovely little touch, as Bruce and Jim and Lucius have their ultra serious discussion at Wayne Manor Selina continues to cheerfully finish off his birthday cake. Also if they really used that much PE4 on the exploding necklaces the concussion would immediately kill everyone on the stage. 

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The birth of Joker 2.0 seems like a cheap way to show the rise of the Joker... again.  What aspect of the Joker does Jeramiah bring to the table?  So he basically becomes crazy because of a bunch of poison gas?  Such character depth.  

The Barbara stuff isn't very interesting.  

I liked Penguin actually being helpful for once.  Jim could have shown a tad more appreciation.  

Bruce should have been kicking himself for being responsible for even more people dying.  

I did like his birthday party, though.  It was also nice to see Bruce gaining some business sense and acquiring some talent.  Too bad the talent just went south.

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