Unpopular Opinions

[IWantCandy71]

21 hours ago, UYI said:

Her recent admission on 60 Minutes that she didn't even finish middle school (and that she doesn't even have a GED) explains SO much (and I'm someone who can take or leave her, depending on the day). 

I don't think you have to finish school to be smart, and of course finishing school doesn't automatically make you bright. But not finishing these days in America is just LAZY. And I'm even talking about those who are "of a certain age". I mean, there are still people alive who HAD to quit school and help the family by working. Those people I give a little more slack, because most of them may feel there's not much point since they are collecting social security. But there are so many resources out there for furthering your education. Bragging about not finishing school at her age just makes her look... lazy, apathetic, rebellious. Just for starters.

[Irlandesa]

10 hours ago, JustaPerson said:

I think @methodwriter85 was referring to when Jimmy Kimmel took a group of stars to surprise some people at a theater across the street. Armie Hammer def would have gotten an invite to the Oscars, given that he was in one of the films nominated for Best Picture. 

I think so too.  I also don't think it was as 'spontaneous' as Kimmel made it seem...in that the people who got up to go were asked by him.

[UYI]

2 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

I don't think you have to finish school to be smart, and of course finishing school doesn't automatically make you bright. But not finishing these days in America is just LAZY. And I'm even talking about those who are "of a certain age". I mean, there are still people alive who HAD to quit school and help the family by working. Those people I give a little more slack, because most of them may feel there's not much point since they are collecting social security. But there are so many resources out there for furthering your education. Bragging about not finishing school at her age just makes her look... lazy, apathetic, rebellious. Just for starters.

And not only that, but it makes me question her parents' judgement, too. I think she said she was 14 when she left school. Is that even LEGAL? So when she was a series regular on The Bill Engvall Show as a teenager, she didn't need an onset tutor like other child stars do, because she had already left school? The mind boggles. Even if her parents were sure that this was her calling, they should have at least urged her to either finish high school, or wait to leave until she was 16 (which I thought was the earliest age you could legally drop out of school, unless it varies by state). I genuinely don't get it. 

Edited March 6, 2018 by UYI

[Athena]

59 minutes ago, UYI said:

And not only that, but it makes me question her parents' judgement, too. I think she said she was 14 when she left school. Is that even LEGAL? So when she was a series regular on The Bill Engvall Show as a teenager, she didn't need an onset tutor like other child stars do, because she had already left school? The mind boggles. Even if her parents were sure that this was her calling, they should have at least urged her to either finish high school, or wait to leave until she was 16 (which I thought was the earliest age you could legally drop out of school, unless it varies by state). I genuinely don't get it. 

I think Lawrence also suffered from social anxiety (as did Emma Stone) and acting/performing became an outlet. It sounds like Lawrence's parents probably didn't know how to help her and saw that acting was the only thing that alleviated her issues. She may have had an on set tutor. California law dictates that there are exceptions made for children who drop out and parental permission and tutoring are some exceptional reasons. From the way child actors have spoken about on set education, it really is what the performer puts into it. So it may have been that they legally stated they would provide her a tutor but she ultimately stopped attending any classes.  

[IWantCandy71]

16 hours ago, UYI said:

And not only that, but it makes me question her parents' judgement, too. I think she said she was 14 when she left school. Is that even LEGAL? So when she was a series regular on The Bill Engvall Show as a teenager, she didn't need an onset tutor like other child stars do, because she had already left school? The mind boggles. Even if her parents were sure that this was her calling, they should have at least urged her to either finish high school, or wait to leave until she was 16 (which I thought was the earliest age you could legally drop out of school, unless it varies by state). I genuinely don't get it. 

I think it's 16 or 17 in most states without a parent's consent. Younger than that, yes I do believe in every state, your parent has to consent to you withdrawing from school for it to be legal. I don't know much about her, honestly. Maybe she did sit in with a tutor from time to time, but still. Bragging about not furthering your education, especially when you know some of your fanbase is younger girls, is just inexcusable. But I guess at least she's not being a hypocrite about it ? LOL Trying to find a silver lining here.

[Danny Franks]

On 07/03/2018 at 2:18 PM, IWantCandy71 said:

I think it's 16 or 17 in most states without a parent's consent. Younger than that, yes I do believe in every state, your parent has to consent to you withdrawing from school for it to be legal. I don't know much about her, honestly. Maybe she did sit in with a tutor from time to time, but still. Bragging about not furthering your education, especially when you know some of your fanbase is younger girls, is just inexcusable. But I guess at least she's not being a hypocrite about it ? LOL Trying to find a silver lining here.

Sadly, it's not new. Celebration of ignorance has been something of a trend in the media for some years now. Particularly in the trashy, tabloid media that benefits from ignorance. There are plenty of celebrities, particularly reality TV 'stars', who seem unceasingly proud of being stupid, and play it up in media appearances. I don't know if people like it because it makes them feel nonthreatening, or if intelligence has been painted as a sign of superiority and smugness.

And I always go back to the sneering comments a few years ago, about Anne Hathaway being "ambitious", "grasping", "superior" and other things, most of which came because she didn't hide the fact she had a brain, and she took acting seriously. Meanwhile, Jennifer Lawrence was falling down stairs at awards shows and being feted to the skies.

[ShadowHunter]

I like Batman Returns more then Batman.  I do like that movie a lot but thought the sequel was better.

I don't hate Batman Forever  in fact its a bit of a Guilty pleasure. It's not as good as the first two but it's miles better then Batman and Robin. Kiss From A Rose is to me an epic song.

Edited March 10, 2018 by ShadowHunter

[xls]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 9:37 PM, Spartan Girl said:

I don't think The Shape of Water is that great. I couldn't really

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ship those two after it eats her neighbor's poor cat

Ewww! I hate him now!

[xls]

I hate the way Wonder Woman is such a bald-faced rip-off of Xena Warrior Princess! SM. 

The stunts they pulled blow-by-blow directly from the TV show, looked so fking PHONEY  done with the CGI instead of real stunt people!

I tried to watch it but couldn't get through more than a few minutes here and there 

[starri]

5 hours ago, xls said:

I hate the way Wonder Woman is such a bald-faced rip-off of Xena Warrior Princess! SM. 

Wonder Woman has had the same basic story for over 75 years.

[Blergh]

5 hours ago, starri said:

Wonder Woman has had the same basic story for over 75 years.

Yeah, I wondered why the WW fans weren't protesting Xena en masse.

[HunterHunted]

18 hours ago, xls said:

I hate the way Wonder Woman is such a bald-faced rip-off of Xena Warrior Princess! SM. 

The stunts they pulled blow-by-blow directly from the TV show, looked so fking PHONEY  done with the CGI instead of real stunt people!

I tried to watch it but couldn't get through more than a few minutes here and there 

I'm assuming you're referencing the beach battle. While it has some CGI and compositing, the vast majority of it was done using practical stunts and obviously so. Not only did they have real people doing the stunts, they trained a bunch of civilians aka not stunt people to be the Amazons--athletes, police officers, a model or two.

[starri]

UO:  Shelby was a selfish asshole who forced her son to grow up without a mother and condemned her own mother to suffer the consequences of going through life with a single kidney because she just HAD to have her own biological child.  Also, she was a bridezilla.

[aradia22]

@starri Wait, who is Shelby?

Quote

And I always go back to the sneering comments a few years ago, about Anne Hathaway being "ambitious", "grasping", "superior" and other things, most of which came because she didn't hide the fact she had a brain, and she took acting seriously. 

If I was going to choose words to describe what people didn't like about her at the time it would be "ungrateful," "entitled," "desperate," "fake," and yes, "superior" but to the fans of her earlier movies. I don't think people were put off by her taking acting seriously. Inside the Actors Studio would not be popular if people were put off by that kind of thing. 

[Crs97]

Shelby is the daughter in Steel Magnolias.

[GaT]

7 hours ago, starri said:

UO:  Shelby was a selfish asshole who forced her son to grow up without a mother and condemned her own mother to suffer the consequences of going through life with a single kidney because she just HAD to have her own biological child.  Also, she was a bridezilla.

LOL, this is really funny.

[ribboninthesky1]

On 3/9/2018 at 5:56 PM, Danny Franks said:

And I always go back to the sneering comments a few years ago, about Anne Hathaway being "ambitious", "grasping", "superior" and other things, most of which came because she didn't hide the fact she had a brain, and she took acting seriously. Meanwhile, Jennifer Lawrence was falling down stairs at awards shows and being feted to the skies.

I've been chuckling at the bolded for several minutes. 

9 hours ago, starri said:

UO:  Shelby was a selfish asshole who forced her son to grow up without a mother and condemned her own mother to suffer the consequences of going through life with a single kidney because she just HAD to have her own biological child.  Also, she was a bridezilla.

Shelby had no business getting married, at least not to Jackson.  I haven't seen the movie in a long time, but I also thought that she wanted to have a baby as a way to "make things better" in her marriage.  I mean, damn, had they even been married a year and already had problems? Just dysfunctional all around. 

[Popples]

2 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Shelby had no business getting married, at least not to Jackson.  I haven't seen the movie in a long time, but I also thought that she wanted to have a baby as a way to "make things better" in her marriage.  I mean, damn, had they even been married a year and already had problems? Just dysfunctional all around. 

They had problems before they got married. When Shelby's getting her hair done before the wedding, she admitted she and Jackson fought about having children when they went skinny dipping.

"My colors are blush and bashful". Sorry, it's usually the first thing I think of when someone brings up Steel Magnolias.

[ribboninthesky1]

Ha! And M'lynn's retort, "Her colors are 'pink' and 'pink.'" Sally Field's delivery is everything.  

14 minutes ago, Popples said:

They had problems before they got married. When Shelby's getting her hair done before the wedding, she admitted she and Jackson fought about having children when they went skinny dipping.

Yep, I remember.  Going through with the marriage resolved nothing. They were a mess.    

And since we're on Steel Magnolias UPOs: M'lynn's speech after the funeral fell flat to me. I get that parents expect their children to outlive them, but in Shelby's case, that made absolutely no sense.  

Edited March 22, 2018 by ribboninthesky1

[Dandesun]

We watched that movie in my dorm, all crammed into the small lounge on the third floor and the whole fucking thing felt like some sort of penance for me. I have no fond memories of that movie because it was well known how much I loathed Julia Roberts and it was the third or fourth movie we watched starring her in a little over a month. I was over. it.

I burst out laughing when she died in Steel Magnolias. I think I fist pumped, too. I take it back... that was the fond memory. That and the looks of horror from the other girls.

[Wiendish Fitch]

I refuse to see Steel Magnolias. As someone born in the North (Massachusetts), but who's lived in the South since the age of 7, I get sick to death of hearing about how Southern women are strong and beautiful, Northern women are weak and ugly, blah, blah, blah... FUCK THAT. The Northern women are my family are beautiful, strong, and amazing in every conceivable way, especially my late grandmother, and anyone who says otherwise is on my shit list for life. How fucking dare anyone make such ignorant, moronic generalizations.

 

And I agree, Shelby was a selfish c*** who deserved to die. 

Edited March 22, 2018 by Wiendish Fitch

[Browncoat]

As I remember, Jackson and Shelby fought about kids because she wanted them and he didn't -- and the main reason he didn't is because he knew how hard it would be on her (and that it might kill her).  I agree, though, that she was selfish -- she didn't need to try to repopulate the world.

The play was written to demonstrate not that southern women are strong relative to women in other regions, but strong relative to the men surrounding them.  They could have been women anywhere, but the author and his family just happened to be from the south.

Anytime I see a pink room, I usually describe it as painted blush and bashful.

[wallflower75]

3 hours ago, Browncoat said:

As I remember, Jackson and Shelby fought about kids because she wanted them and he didn't -- and the main reason he didn't is because he knew how hard it would be on her (and that it might kill her).  I agree, though, that she was selfish -- she didn't need to try to repopulate the world.

The thing I keep thinking when I think about Shelby is how spoiled she was.  Only daughter in the family, several years older than her brothers--so she had years as the only child.  No doubt protected like she was fine china due to her health problems.  No doubt indulged--the wedding wouldn't be "blush" and "bashful" without her parents paying for it, now would it?  She wants what she wants when she wants it.  Shelby wants a baby.  She's convinced they'll never be able to legally adopt because of her health, but what about the other options out there?  Jackson was looking into the possibility of "buying" a baby.  They could've hired a surrogate.  They could've been foster parents.  But no.  Shelby wanted a baby, and she got tired of waiting.  She'd never been denied anything she wanted, so why should she be denied a baby because it might kill her?

This discussion is actually making me think better of Jackson.  When Shelby says that she thinks having the baby will help out their marriage, I always got the impression that he was cheating on her.  M'Lynn's reaction cemented that impression.  But now, going back to what they fought about before the wedding, it makes me reconsider what was causing their marital trouble.  Not that Jackson might not have been cheating on her--I think the seeds for that impression were planted by Nancy Beth at the reception when she insinuates that she's slept with Jackson.  But if he was cheating on her, I figure Shelby would've left him and come home crying to her parents.

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, starri said:

UO:  Shelby was a selfish asshole who forced her son to grow up without a mother and condemned her own mother to suffer the consequences of going through life with a single kidney because she just HAD to have her own biological child.  Also, she was a bridezilla.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thought that.  

[starri]

12 hours ago, Browncoat said:

The play was written to demonstrate not that southern women are strong relative to women in other regions, but strong relative to the men surrounding them. 

The men really do not come off well, do they?  I think the only one who comes across even somewhat positively is Drum, and even he seems a bit dim.  I imagine it's Tom Skerritt's charisma that sells it.

I think some of Shelby being hateful is due to Roberts.  When Lifetime remade it with an African American cast a few years ago, she was played by Phylicia Rashad's daughter Condola (Phylicia played Clairee), and I remember liking her a lot more.  Well, some.  The "real" Shelby, Robert Harling's sister Susan, was apparently even worse off than her fictional counterpart, and spent a lot of her time after giving birth in the hospital and not with her son.

In spite of all that, I do think it's a pretty good movie, and I think that's almost entirely due to Dolly Parton being awesome in anything.  Although the first Off Broadway and Broadway productions had Margo Martindale playing Truvy, and I'm going to some day invent a time machine so I can go back and see that.

Also, I'm sure an entire generation of drag queens were inspired by the story.  Sally Field's son Sam tells a story about going on a date with a man who ran a website called Drink Your Juice, Shelby.

Edited March 23, 2018 by starri

[Crs97]

My parents saw the play Steel Magnolias when it first started traveling and talked about how wonderful it was.  Then my mom saw the movie and couldn’t stop talking about how disappointing it was.  In the play, the men never appear.  According to her, one of the many flaws of the movie was scrambling to give the men lines and have them speak.

[UYI]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:54 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

I've been chuckling at the bolded for several minutes. 

Shelby had no business getting married, at least not to Jackson.  I haven't seen the movie in a long time, but I also thought that she wanted to have a baby as a way to "make things better" in her marriage.  I mean, damn, had they even been married a year and already had problems? Just dysfunctional all around. 

"That Jackson? He's one big, hanging man."--A guest to Shelby at her WEDDING RECEPTION. 

On 3/22/2018 at 4:59 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

I refuse to see Steel Magnolias. As someone born in the North (Massachusetts), but who's lived in the South since the age of 7, I get sick to death of hearing about how Southern women are strong and beautiful, Northern women are weak and ugly, blah, blah, blah... FUCK THAT. The Northern women are my family are beautiful, strong, and amazing in every conceivable way, especially my late grandmother, and anyone who says otherwise is on my shit list for life. How fucking dare anyone make such ignorant, moronic generalizations.

 

And I agree, Shelby was a selfish c*** who deserved to die. 

I'm so sorry you've had to hear that! I've NEVER heard that, certainly not the second part. Not to mention that it leaves out Midwestern women, Southwestern women, Pacific Northwest women, and whatever the hell I am being from Maryland (a Mid-Atlantic woman, I guess). 

Of course, you already how I feel about blonde women (ahem) being generalized as dumb or generic, so there you go. :)

[Bastet]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:22 AM, starri said:

UO:  Shelby was a selfish asshole who forced her son to grow up without a mother and condemned her own mother to suffer the consequences of going through life with a single kidney because she just HAD to have her own biological child.  Also, she was a bridezilla.

I posted the same thing (minus the Bridezilla part) a couple of years ago.  As I prefaced it then, I know she's based on a real person, and if the real family doesn't feel that way about Susan, why should I feel that way about Shelby, but still - I think she was selfish as hell.  She knew she wasn't supposed to get pregnant because of the life-threatening risk it would pose to her heatlh, but she was so damn set on having "a child of my own" that she went out and did it anyway - partly to save her dying marriage to an asshole - and then, gee, look, it indeed took her out -- but not before requiring her mom to give up a kidney to try to save her.

One of the reasons I love Ouiser so much is her being the one person at the Christmas party to understand how M'Lynn feels about the pregnancy announcement.  Everyone else is just nattering on about how Shelby will prove the doctors wrong - And, why, would that happen exactly?  Because she's nice and wants it so much?  Sorry, that is not how the world works - and, yay, babies, and Ouiser is the one sitting there saying, "This baby is not exactly good news."

And, yeah, she left behind a kid who never really knew her (in reality, she was in hospital for so much of the time she was alive after his birth that he hardly saw her, because he wasn't allowed in the ward) and who had to grow up knowing he was, in a way that is not his fault, an agent of her death

On 3/22/2018 at 2:24 PM, Browncoat said:

As I remember, Jackson and Shelby fought about kids because she wanted them and he didn't -- and the main reason he didn't is because he knew how hard it would be on her (and that it might kill her). 

 

No, they both wanted kids.  She was concerned about not being able to bear one herself, and he told her that didn't matter - they'd adopt, "we'll buy 'em if we have to."  But he was over the moon when she got pregnant, despite the danger to her.

The real Jackson (I can't remember his real name) was a total ass, but it's only hinted at in the film when Shelby tells M'Lynn she's pregnant (he comes off well other than that, which is a nice touch by Robert Harling towards his nephew not to make a play/movie that disparages the kid's dad, when their marriage wasn't the point).  M'Lynn is appalled that he thinks it's just hunky dory she's going to risk herself this way, and sees what's up when Shelby says she thinks having a baby will help a lot of things (meaning their marriage). 

In reality, he married someone else a hot minute after Shelby died, and the kid was calling the stepmom "Mommy" - it's what spurred Harling to write the play, to keep his sister's memory alive since in real life he felt like she was being erased.  Through writing it, he realized what a strength these women were to each other, not just in times of crisis, but in their daily lives.  So that became a huge focus of the story.

[scarynikki12]

As far as adoption and buying a kid are concerned, Shelby does make a comment about "no one is going to give a baby to someone with my medical record" in response to M'lynn's adoption inquiry.  This led me to believe that they did look into it and were told that there wasn't much chance of getting picked.  Also, even with Jackson's "we'll buy them if we have to", I can also see that not having appeal for Shelby.  Sure they could do it, and Jackson no doubt had the money to make it happen, but buying children is tremendously unethical and illegal and I can't see Shelby going along with that.  She was selfish but she wasn't a monster.  The best thing she should have done with regard to her health is become a foster parent, volunteer for children's charities (where she could even try to do her part in stopping the aforementioned selling of children), and lived long enough to see the advancements in diabetes treatment.  She and Jackson would no doubt have gotten divorced had she lived but maybe her second husband would come with a few kids from a previous marriage or she could have been a late in life adoptive parent (a la Sandra Bullock who adopted her first at age fifty) since the medical advancements in diabetes may not have been an obstacle anymore. 

I've always been of the mind that Shelby's pregnancy wasn't planned, since they implied that she and Jackson had looked into adoption, but that she found out and quickly decided not to terminate and hope for the best.  The way she tells M'lynn without telling M'lynn that her marriage is in trouble and the pregnancy may solve their problems always struck me as a hint that Shelby and Jackson may not have seen their first anniversary without it.  Jack Jr was the reason they stayed married past their first year.  They don't go into much detail so it's equally possible that Shelby was secretly trying to get pregnant the whole time but I've always interpreted otherwise.

My movie UO is that The Big Easy is not only a terrible movie but that the chemistry between the leads is marginal at best, and the less said about  the horrifying accent that Quaid uses the better.  What the hell is that?  He'd have been better off just doing a standard Southern accent rather than the Cajun/Creole...THING that he did.  Maybe he could have generated better chemistry with Barkin if he wasn't so focused on sounding stupid.  Chemistry and bad accents aside, the story itself doesn't work for me.  Barkin investigates, and discovers, that several cops are corrupt.  This includes Quaid, and he does get arrested, but he doesn't get tried or convicted because the corruption results in destroyed evidence.  Then they get married and we're all supposed to cheer this on.  If he'd turned out to be working for Internal Affairs, then great, but he was literally caught accepting bribes.  He was a dirty cop.  But, because Barkin's character wanted to bone him, she stops investigating him and get gets away clean.  I hate this movie.

[Shannon L.]

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

Everyone else is just nattering on about how Shelby will prove the doctors wrong -

Minor nitpick (because I agree with everything else you wrote.  I liked the movie, but not what Shelby did), the line was "And the doctors said that Shelby couldn't get pregnant!  I guess she showed them!" and M'lynn responded "The doctors didn't say that Shelby couldn't get pregnant, they said she shouldn't get pregnant.  That's a big difference".  Then, their faces fell and they got quiet because they realized the gravity of the situation.  That's when Dolly's character tried to cheer them up with "well, we just have to look at the bright side here...." [/paraphrased]. 

Another movie UO that might just be the most unpopular of all with a particular set of movie fans  :)   We're making our way through the Marvel movies again with a friend who hadn't seen more than a few over the years.  Now, I have to watch GOG2 again (that's this weekend), but this past weekend, we watch Dr. Strange, and, while I reserve the right to change my mind, from what I remember of GOG2, I liked Dr. Strange better. 

[Joe]

23 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

Another movie UO that might just be the most unpopular of all with a particular set of movie fans  :)   We're making our way through the Marvel movies again with a friend who hadn't seen more than a few over the years.  Now, I have to watch GOG2 again (that's this weekend), but this past weekend, we watch Dr. Strange, and, while I reserve the right to change my mind, from what I remember of GOG2, I liked Dr. Strange better. 

I don't like Cumberbatch, so I skipped Dr Strange. I skipped Ragnarok too, and wish I'd skipped Ant-Man. While I felt that GOTG2 was lacking, it was better than some. My mildly controversial MCU opinion is that I really like Iron Man 3.

[Blergh]

I liked Shelby in Steel Magnolias (and all the female protagonists). My UO is re the rip-off similar genre movie Divine Secrets of Ya-Ya Sisterhood, not only did  I think that the whole bunch of older women were just self-justifying narcissists but also I REALLY wished that the victimized daughter of their clique whom they were trying to guilt trip and brainwash had charged them and her fiance with kidnapping and REALLY eviscerated  her mother  and charged her as an accessory!  What I got out of it was that she told the TRUTH and they hated it being made public so they did THAT to her. BOO!

[Shannon L.]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

My mildly controversial MCU opinion is that I really like Iron Man 3.

Really? That's UO?  I really liked IM3, too.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

Really? That's UO?  I really liked IM3, too.

Very much so. For the treatment of Iron-Man's arch enemy  really riled the nerds. For the record I am an okay with the movie and will watch if it turns up on TV but not buy a home copy reviewer

[Bastet]

6 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

Minor nitpick (because I agree with everything else you wrote.  I liked the movie, but not what Shelby did), the line was "And the doctors said that Shelby couldn't get pregnant!  I guess she showed them!" and M'lynn responded "The doctors didn't say that Shelby couldn't get pregnant, they said she shouldn't get pregnant.  That's a big difference". 

Yes, but while they never return to the "What do they know?" attitude about doctors once they have that little bit of sense thrown at them, they still revert almost immediately to "It'll be fine."  Which is stupid.  WHY will it be fine?  M'Lynn just told them she is not supposed to get pregnant because of the threat to her health, and now she's gone and done just that.  What magical power does Shelby have to defy the reality of her situation?  None, of course.  It will not be fine.  She is going to wreck her fragile health and jeopardize her life.  Those are the facts, and they acted like Shelby being sweet and stubborn would change them, and that, yay, a baby was the important part. 

I love the movie despite Shelby's selfishness and the others' delusions, but that entire Christmas party section of the film has me yelling at the TV.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Bastet

[UYI]

12 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

As far as adoption and buying a kid are concerned, Shelby does make a comment about "no one is going to give a baby to someone with my medical record" in response to M'lynn's adoption inquiry.  

See, I take that as her giving her up on the adoption process early on, rationalizing that her health would disqualify them from being able to adopt a child (even if she's not sure that's true or not), using it as a convenient excuse so that she could do things "the right way" and have a biological child...consequences be damned.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I could see her doing that. 

Edited March 26, 2018 by UYI

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

See, I take that as her giving her up on the adoption process early on, rationalizing that her health would disqualify them from being able to adopt a child (even if she's not sure that's true or not), using it as a convenient excuse so that she could do things "the right way" have a biological child...consequences be damned.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I could see her doing that. 

I agree.  She says, "If I could adopt one, I would," but she's so on about having "a baby of my own" that I'm not sure I believe her.  I think she wanted to give birth, despite all the medical warnings against it, made a cursory effort at becoming a parent another way, and was somewhat relieved when she "had to" get pregnant instead - especially when their marriage was rocky and she felt (accurately or not, and I think accurately) that Jackson really wanted her to do things the "normal" way, too.  "I want a child of my own.  I think it would help things a lot."  She's always wanted that, and now she thinks it will save her marriage, so she's going for it.

So, based on that and the rest of the way she talks about both her and Jackson's reactions, there is no way it wasn't an intentional pregnancy.  (I also have no doubt that his excitement over her pregnancy, especially so early in the process, means he was not, "No, Shelby, let's not do this; it's not worth the risk to you, we'll explore other avenues and figure something out" concerned about her.  I think he wanted a wife/mother of his children more than he wanted Shelby in particular.)

"I'd rather have 30 minutes of wonderful than a lifetime of nothing special."  How profoundly sad that she was willing to die - and put her family through losing her - in order to be a biological mother for a short time rather than to become a mother a different way or, horrors, not be a parent but expand her work with children, because she thought life as a non-parent was "nothing special," despite all she had going for her.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Bastet

[Popples]

10 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I love the movie despite Shelby's selfishness and the others' delusions, but that entire Christmas party section of the film has me yelling at the TV.

The Christmas party does have the best line in the film: "If you can't say something nice, come sit by me."

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, Popples said:

The Christmas party does have the best line in the film: "If you can't say something nice, come sit by me."

Ha!  Yes, I should say the entire Shelby-related part of the Christmas party.  Because there's also the lead-in to that, with Clairee saying "They all look like they've been carved out of cream cheese," and Ouiser's reunion with Owen Jenkins ("I'm not as sweet as I used to be" is the best, but I love the whole thing, starting with her asking him if he shrunk).

Edited March 26, 2018 by Bastet

[Browncoat]

15 minutes ago, Popples said:

The Christmas party does have the best line in the film: "If you can't say something nice, come sit by me."

I use that line a lot in real life.

[Shannon L.]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

Very much so. For the treatment of Iron-Man's arch enemy  really riled the nerds. For the record I am an okay with the movie and will watch if it turns up on TV but not buy a home copy reviewer

And this is why I'm glad I know nothing about the comics.  I can walk into these movies with no expectations and enjoy them for what they are.  I mean, I understand why someone who loves the comics would not like these changes, but as someone who likes to read and has to deal with most movies being different than the book, I can just shrug that kind of thing off.

@Bastet, I understand what you mean and I agree that they could have been a bit more caring in that moment. 

[Athena]

Please continue your discussion in the movie thread. Thanks!

[Shannon L.]

On 3/26/2018 at 6:29 AM, Shannon L. said:

Another movie UO that might just be the most unpopular of all with a particular set of movie fans  :)   We're making our way through the Marvel movies again with a friend who hadn't seen more than a few over the years.  Now, I have to watch GOG2 again (that's this weekend), but this past weekend, we watch Dr. Strange, and, while I reserve the right to change my mind, from what I remember of GOG2, I liked Dr. Strange better. 

Quoting myself because I watched GOG2 again last night.  It was only the 2nd time I'd seen it.  Before, the only UO I stated about it was that I thought there was too much baby Groot and, while he had his moments, I wasn't as charmed as him as others.  I was afraid to say that I didn't care for the movie because it was getting so much love ("it's even better than the first one!") that I thought maybe I went in with my expectations too high and missed something.  But?  Nope.  Still didn't care for it at all.  It was visually beautiful (except that cheesy first fighting sequence over the credits) and it had some really moving serious moments, but I found most of the humor forced and even more juvenile than the first one (which had some juvenile humor, but was mostly clever, imo).  I list it way down towards the bottom with my least favorites. 

[Joe]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

Quoting myself because I watched GOG2 again last night.  It was only the 2nd time I'd seen it.  Before, the only UO I stated about it was that I thought there was too much baby Groot and, while he had his moments, I wasn't as charmed as him as others.  I was afraid to say that I didn't care for the movie because it was getting so much love ("it's even better than the first one!") that I thought maybe I went in with my expectations too high and missed something.  But?  Nope.  Still didn't care for it at all.  It was visually beautiful (except that cheesy first fighting sequence over the credits) and it had some really moving serious moments, but I found most of the humor forced and even more juvenile than the first one (which had some juvenile humor, but was mostly clever, imo).  I list it way down towards the bottom with my least favorites. 

I see that as fine. I much preferred the first GOTG. The second one seemed to be missing something. But I still preferred it to Civil War or Ant-Man.

[cpcathy]

The first GOTG is the only superhero type movie that I will watch. It is truly enjoyable, but the second one was not as good.

[Spartan Girl]

I have an UO about Black Panther: Erik Kilmonger was nothing special.

Dont get me wrong, Michael B. Jordan's performance was great (and that body didn't hurt either), but all the Twitter/Tumblr posts proclaiming that "Kilmonger was right" makes me roll my eyes so hard it gives me a headache. It was pretty clear from the get-go that for all his talk about "fighting for his people" was bullshit. He didnt care about anyone, Wakandan or American or whoever. He just wanted power and revenge, which was evidence in how he burned all the vibranium once he had the Black Panther powers. He wanted Wakanda to take over countries, but he obviously didn't give a shit how Wakanda would maintain power once he was gone. Hell, he didn't even really care about his girlfriend/accomplice; he had no problem shooting her when Kluger had her at gunpoint (not that I felt sorry for her either).

What happened to his dad was awful, but it doesn't justify anything he did. Loki had a family that loved him, but that didn't make him any less of a petulant entitled asshole either.

[Apprentice79]

48 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I have an UO about Black Panther: Erik Kilmonger was nothing special.

Dont get me wrong, Michael B. Jordan's performance was great (and that body didn't hurt either), but all the Twitter/Tumblr posts proclaiming that "Kilmonger was right" makes me roll my eyes so hard it gives me a headache. It was pretty clear from the get-go that for all his talk about "fighting for his people" was bullshit. He didnt care about anyone, Wakandan or American or whoever. He just wanted power and revenge, which was evidence in how he burned all the vibranium once he had the Black Panther powers. He wanted Wakanda to take over countries, but he obviously didn't give a shit how Wakanda would maintain power once he was gone. Hell, he didn't even really care about his girlfriend/accomplice; he had no problem shooting her when Kluger had her at gunpoint (not that I felt sorry for her either).

What happened to his dad was awful, but it doesn't justify anything he did. Loki had a family that loved him, but that didn't make him any less of a petulant entitled asshole either.

Not to mention, his father started this mess in the first place by betraying Wakanda.  What pushed him to do that despicable act? was it Erik's mother?  Was she the stressor?  Plus, if N'Jobu felt that Wakanda needed to change it's policy of isolationism, why didn't he challenge his brother T'Chakka, for the throne. Or better yet, why didn't he present his ideas about helping the outside world to the council and his brother.  Bringing, his son Erik/N'Jadaka to Wakanda could have been the impetus for change.  He is both an outsider and a Prince.  He should have had them bond with his son.  It could have allayed their fears about engaging with the world. I am pretty sure there were other war dogs out in the world that had had families with outsiders.  They probably would have supported N'Jobu's ideas for a change.  Nakia bonded with people in the world and she wanted Wakanda to change it's policy.  

I do understand Erik's motivations, but, like you said, he was a dictator. He only cared about himself, revenge and his power.  He was a threat to the world and T'Challa had to stop his madness. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Apprentice79

[Wiendish Fitch]

Re: Killmonger

I agree that Killmonger is an exceptionally well-written character, and Michael B. Jordan deserves every last bit of praise for his portrayal, but all these think pieces proclaiming he's "right" bother me, too. 

Are Killmonger's motivations understandable? Oh, hell, yes. He was a victim of awful circumstances beyond his control, and he unflinchingly addresses the problems of racism and isolationism. It makes perfect sense how and why he ended up the way he did.

 

That said, Killmonger is still a villain. Yes, racism is a widespread problem, but does that justify that Killmonger is a terrorist and a murderer who hurt and killed innocent bystanders? Hell. No.

Were Wakanda's isolationist ways right? Well, that's a hairy debate that would monopolize this topic, but as Apprentice79 pointed out, Nakia also challenged Wakanda's policies, but was still able to love her country and work with others peacefully when it counted. 

Not only can I not justify Killmonger's acts of terrorism, I also can't ignore that he's just a hypocritical, short-sighted bully and tyrant. In addition to burning the vibranium (screwing Wakanda and himself over, the idiot), and he throws his weight around with random Wakandan citizens who have literally done nothing to him. He's willing to hurt or kill anyone, man or woman, young or old. He makes grand proclamations about using vibranium and the Black Panther powers for the greater good, but look at what he does with them the moment he gets them: he rivals Goliath in terms of indiscriminate bullying and cruelty. Yeah, brave new world you're making there, pal.

Black Panther still gets points from me, because unlike friggin' Magneto (who gets forgiveness and second chances like patients get free toothbrushes at the dentist's office), Killmonger gets a vast, complicated, but ultimately satisfying arc where the consequences of his actions are addressed, and he eventually pays accordingly. I also appreciate that T'Challa had both compassion and good sense in regards to Killmonger's ways, and decides to learn from both their mistakes and aim for a positive change.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Wiendish Fitch

[Spartan Girl]

I don't really think he cared that much about his dad in the end either. Recall the dream sequence scene with him and his dad in their apartment: "No tears for me?" "People die every day, that's just the way it is." Yeah, and you killed a bunch of them, asshole.

1 hour ago, Apprentice79 said:

Not to mention, his father started this mess in the first place by betraying Wakanda.  What pushed him to do that despicable act? was it Erik's mother?  Was she the stressor?  Plus, if N'Jobu felt that Wakanda needed to change it's policy of isolationism, why didn't he challenge his brother T'Chakka, for the throne. Or better yet, why didn't he present his ideas about helping the outside world to the council and his brother.  Bringing, his son Erik/N'Jadaka to Wakanda could have been the impetus for change.  He is both an outsider and a Prince.  He should have had them bond with his son.  It could have allayed their fears about engaging with the world. I am pretty sure there were other war dogs out in the world that had had families with outsiders.  They probably would have supported N'Jobu's ideas for a change.  Nakia bonded with people in the world and she wanted Wakanda to change it's policy.  

 

 

THANK YOU.

At least Ghost N'Jobu acknowledged he fucked up as a father, admitting he should have taken Erik back to Wakanda and made sure he had the best life possible instead of selling out his homeland. No such remorse from Erik. And while his final words about burning him the ocean with his ancestors were poignant, part of me was left unmoved. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[spaceytraci1208]

On 3/26/2018 at 9:56 AM, Joe said:

I don't like Cumberbatch, so I skipped Dr Strange. I skipped Ragnarok too, and wish I'd skipped Ant-Man. While I felt that GOTG2 was lacking, it was better than some. My mildly controversial MCU opinion is that I really like Iron Man 3.

I do too! It still makes me chuckle when I think about The Mandarin's real name being "Trevor"