S10.E01: Gouls Just Wanna Have Fun

[zoeysmom]

5 hours ago, SCS said:

 

Wasn't that what she said about Sonja while the cast was on holiday a few years ago? Sonja (judging from her on-camera antics over the years) probably enjoyed the comment, laughed wildly, guzzled 6 too-many drinks, climbed upon the nearest available bar and let her dress fall off.

Actually Sonja said of all the comment made about her on the show Carole's comments about her "butt fucking" was the one that hurt the most.  Carole made the reference more than once and Carole laughed at Sonja until she apologized for just making up a story. Of course it was a couple of seasons later.  Of course it is Carole's favorite topic as evidenced by her bringing it up again last season.

[film noire]

12 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

She does have her fans, that's for sure. She also had a failed talk show, a failed radio show 

Her Q rating/score (for likeability) during the talk show was only 10  (Ellen had triple that, Whoopi  was in the mid twenties, and Wendy Williams was at 5).

Edited April 9, 2018 by film noire

[ryebread]

6 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

Well, pedophile is also a more severe accusation because it is actually a crime. 

Again, my point >> you and I think calling someone a pedophile is a horrible thing. Worse than calling someone a slut. Chances are, you and I wouldn't associate with someone who called us that. Carole feels differently. That's the point.

Quote

Being a slut isn't a crime.  

To be honest, I wouldn't tolerate being in the presence of someone who screamed that I was a slut, either.  Or a prostitution whore. Which, IIRC, is still illegal in 49 states, I might add. Alls I'm saying is, that these women put up with a lot for the fame and the paycheck. Me? Wouldn't do it. I've got a family to think of. 

[ryebread]

All this talk about sluts, reminded me of this:

Carole sez re: Halloween, "But let's be honest.  It's a day that all women can dress up as sluts and feel good about themselves."

C'mon, Amelia. Saying that dressing scantily is dressing as a slut isn't even the worst part of that statement. That women have to do so to feel good about themselves? 

Oy.  Girl power.

[Minzy]

I saw it more as being able to dress how they wanted for a night and not feel judged for doing so by society.

In theory, anyway.

[ryebread]

9 minutes ago, Minzy said:

I saw it more as being able to dress how they wanted for a night and not feel judged for doing so by society.

In theory, anyway.

Possibly. I was just surprised that Writer Girl didn't use her words better. And then after she said it, her nervous laugh and the way she shifts her eyes makes it look, to me, like she knew she done messed up.

Which, if there was consciousness there, at least there's that.

[Minzy]

Either that or she was paraphrasing Mean Girls. Which, somewhat apt.

[ghoulina]

18 hours ago, Ellee said:

I don’t know, Ryebread .... she called her a ‘pedophile’ .... I couldn’t get passed that I don’t think.  

All the other name calling stuff I could get passed.  That one ... nope. 

Agree. While "bitch" and "whore" aren't nice names, they're typical names that one calls a woman when pissed off. They're overused, almost to the point of having no meaning. Context. Beth was mad, she was ranting, she called names. When Lu called Carole a pedophile, they weren't in some big fight. She was deliberately being slanderous and it was really gross. 

 

17 hours ago, lezlers said:

Yep.  And this board isn't a true representation of the viewing public.  She's pretty hated here, but beloved in many other places.  Not many people get three Bravo shows if everyone hates them.  Count me as someone who likes her.  She does some cringy things sometimes, but what HW doesn't?  I think her entertainment value and wit far outweigh any negatives.  I know I'm not alone, or she wouldn't be as successful as she is.  

Yes. This is a snark board, so it's not often that any ONE person is largely loved. I am one of the few left who likes Beth, but I do think out in the world she has a larger percentage of fans than would be represented here. My mother, for instance, loves Bethenny. 

[Jel]

32 minutes ago, Minzy said:

I saw it more as being able to dress how they wanted for a night and not feel judged for doing so by society.

In theory, anyway.

Initially, I took it as LVP-style "British humour" -- the jabby joke. But I see what you are saying here -- and this way works, too, with the jab at society's expense, vs. the ladies'.

I like your version better, Minzy. 

[jaybird2]

On 4/8/2018 at 11:01 PM, RedDelicious said:

I thought it was because Gouls was closer to "Girls" than G houls?

i think it was  because cindy lauper sung like that.  she has a very statenisland/nj acent.  please, no one take offence!!  i have a souhthern accent and live in nj so i sound odd lol.

 

i meant i live in ny!!

Edited April 11, 2018 by jaybird2
correction

[ryebread]

18 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

When Lu called Carole a pedophile, they weren't in some big fight.

Yet, here we have Carole and Luann going on vacation together.

And Luann, "complete WHORE!" consoling a sobbing Bethenny in the Berks because Bethenny is enduring torture. TORTURE!

These women are a different breed. I think we can all agree on that. 

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

Agree. While "bitch" and "whore" aren't nice names, they're typical names that one calls a woman when pissed off. They're overused, almost to the point of having no meaning. Context. Beth was mad, she was ranting, she called names. When Lu called Carole a pedophile, they weren't in some big fight. She was deliberately being slanderous and it was really gross. 

 

Yes. This is a snark board, so it's not often that any ONE person is largely loved. I am one of the few left who likes Beth, but I do think out in the world she has a larger percentage of fans than would be represented here. My mother, for instance, loves Bethenny. 

Does Carole have a guilty conscience or something about her behavior that would define her as a "pedophile" or perhaps Writer Girl can understand much like claiming someone was engaged in "butt fucking" (when they were not-or more alarmingly how closely did Carole violate Sonja's privacy to make such a determination) that Luann or whoever made the claim was referencing Carole dating a man 22 years her junior.  I would think she could understand someone using exaggeration to make a point.Carole got upset when Luann referred to Adam as "Sonja young".  It is amazing to me how some people every word they say is taken so literally and others can claim  (and then recant) she saw a cast mate engaged in butt fucking, which was couched as being illegal in 37 states.  

Oh look some of Carole's greatest hits in hypocrisy:  http://www.realitytea.com/2016/04/29/carole-radziwill-defends-friendship-bethenny-frankel-retweets-slams-luann-de-lesseps/  Regarding just when did Luann call Carole a pedophile? A viewer called Carole out on her nonsense behavior of claiming a retweet is not the same as tweeting, but she laughed it off by claiming Luann deserves it because she called her a pedophile. Anyone remember this?! Anyone?! I mean WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?! Luann said a lot of egregious things (as did Carole), but I don’t recall this one, which Carole mentions every single day like Baby with a bone! 

Isn't the saying-like a dog with a bone?  I didn't realize babies were given bones.
 

[lightninggirl]

On 4/4/2018 at 9:32 PM, farmgal4 said:

It was during that Snapchat that I realized Bethenny may have no true friends.

She has her driver, so that counts ... right!!!???

[HunterHunted]

19 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

Lots of hate for LuAnn on the boards,  but she was the only housewife chosen for "Before They Were Housewives" which people seemed to enjoy.

I can still hate Luann, find her to be a pretentious image obsessed asshole who makes excuses for loathsome behavior by men and still admit that she's lived an interesting life.

House of Hilton spends quite a number of pages digging into Big Kathy, but it doesn't make her not horrible. She's terrible, but fascinating.

I've always gotten the sense that a lot of Luann's gay fans view her as a camp figure. That the juxtaposition of her prententions and the reality are part of her appeal. Alls I know that women who are to the manor born, don't have Luann's grammar.

31 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Does Carole have a guilty conscience or something about her behavior that would define her as a "pedophile"

If someone called me this, I would be LIVID and I've never dated anyone less than 2 years my junior. Guilty conscience?!?!? Please. The insult is disgusting and Luann is disgusting for making it.

[SCS]

10 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Actually Sonja said of all the comment made about her on the show Carole's comments about her "butt fucking" was the one that hurt the most.  

 

My gosh, wouldn't it have angered her? Embarrassed her? But hurt her feelings? If Sonja's feelings were hurt, IMO,  it's only because Carole made her the butt (!) if a joke. And this is Sonja-nothing-is-too-extreme-if-it-raises-my-profile-Morgan, yes? If there had been a positive response of Bow down, Sonja! and Assume your position, Lady Morgan!, Sonja would have had t-shirts and mugs printed. hired a venue and hosted a Burly-Q called "Illegal in 37 States" or whatever the number was. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by SCS
it appears the number is 37 based on a post above this one

[sasha206]

On Carole's butt fucking comment.   Is anal sex between consensual partners really that salacious?  Does it mean Sonja is really a whore if she were to enjoy that?  What is amusing about it to her?  Our society really does have some strange views on anal sex.

10 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

If someone called me this, I would be LIVID and I've never dated anyone less than 2 years my junior. Guilty conscience?!?!? Please. The insult is disgusting and Luann is disgusting for making it.

I certainly wouldn't blame Carole for being livid about being called a pedophile for dating a younger man.  However, her younger man wasn't that young so it's clearly hyperbole.  Still, it was nasty.  That said, Carole's always disliked LuAnn -- counseling her on Native American issues, etc., being upset for being one-upped by Lu, etc.  I think she secretly enjoys Lu's crash and burning.  Not that I blame her.

[politichick]

2 hours ago, jaybird2 said:

i think it was  because cindy lauper sung like that.  she has a very statenisland/nj acent.  please, no one take offence!!  i have a souhthern accent and live in nj so i sound odd lol.

Ghouls is a Halloween reference since Dorinda was having a Halloween party. 

While it would have been nice of Sonja to say hello to everyone, and it was weird that she didn't, shouldn't the hostess greet her guests? And why did/does Dorinda get so drunk? She's a mean drunk, too.

Bethenny's friends may not want to be on this show. Kevin has been with her for a long tie and she probably considers him to be like family. She still has her boarding school friends and probably several others.

Please, please, please: No Jill Zarin back in the cast!

Luanne;'s costume was horrible. Now she wants everyone to feel sad for her because she married the douchebag everyone told her to not marry, just like she wanted everyone to be jumping for joy for her during the courtship/marriage. Should she get the best room on the next trip because she got divorced?

[HunterHunted]

14 minutes ago, SCS said:

My gosh, wouldn't it have angered her? Embarrassed her? But hurt her feelings? If Sonja's feelings were hurt, IMO,  it's only because Carole made her the butt (!) if a joke. And this is Sonja-nothing-is-too-extreme-if-it-raises-my-profile-Morgan, yes? If there had been a positive response of Bow down, Sonja! and Assume your position, Lady Morgan!, Sonja would have had t-shirts and mugs printed. hired a venue and hosted a Burly-Q called "Illegal in 37 States" or whatever the number was. 

 

8 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

On Carole's butt fucking comment.   Is anal sex between consensual partners really that salacious?  Does it mean Sonja is really a whore if she were to enjoy that?  What is amusing about it to her?  Our society really does have some strange views on anal sex.

I think the combo of sloppy seconds, anal, the bushes, and Johnny Depp lookalike  managed to push it from a thing where Sonja felt she was in on the joke to a thing where she was the butt of it. Pun a little bit intended. However, I still think it's far more dignified than her caburlesques and her recent wardrobe malfunction. I don't have an issue with Sonja having consensual sex with a willing dude.

[sasha206]

3 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

 

I think the combo of sloppy seconds, anal, the bushes, and Johnny Depp lookalike  managed to push it from a thing where Sonja felt she was in on the joke to a thing where she was the butt of it. Pun a little bit intended. However, I still think it's far more dignified than her caburlesques and her recent wardrobe malfunction. I don't have an issue with Sonja having consensual sex with a willing dude.

I will say that I wish Sonja wasn't as over the top sexual as she is.  By that I mean, she leads with her sexuality and talks about it so much that it seems like she rarely ever says no.  Fortunately, she didn't give that creepy Aviva Drescher's dad the time of day.  Speaking of the dad, I'm surprised it took a second season before Carole seemed disgusted by Aviva's dad.  For someone so socially aware, I'm surprised she wasn't vocal about his disgusting antics from day 1 of his arrival.  I was disappointed in her with that.  I think all the housewives with the exception of Ramona really poo--poo'd Sonja's comment about him rubbing his erection on her. It was almost as they figured, well, it's Sonja.  She's a whore anyway!

[HunterHunted]

That dismissal of George harassing Sonja was just about the grossest these women have ever been. It was repellant and they were assholes.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Does Carole have a guilty conscience or something about her behavior that would define her as a "pedophile" or perhaps Writer Girl can understand much like claiming someone was engaged in "butt fucking" (when they were not-or more alarmingly how closely did Carole violate Sonja's privacy to make such a determination) that Luann or whoever made the claim was referencing Carole dating a man 22 years her junior.  I would think she could understand someone using exaggeration to make a point.Carole got upset when Luann referred to Adam as "Sonja young".  It is amazing to me how some people every word they say is taken so literally and others can claim  (and then recant) she saw a cast mate engaged in butt fucking, which was couched as being illegal in 37 states.  

Oh look some of Carole's greatest hits in hypocrisy:  http://www.realitytea.com/2016/04/29/carole-radziwill-defends-friendship-bethenny-frankel-retweets-slams-luann-de-lesseps/  Regarding just when did Luann call Carole a pedophile? A viewer called Carole out on her nonsense behavior of claiming a retweet is not the same as tweeting, but she laughed it off by claiming Luann deserves it because she called her a pedophile. Anyone remember this?! Anyone?! I mean WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?! Luann said a lot of egregious things (as did Carole), but I don’t recall this one, which Carole mentions every single day like Baby with a bone! 

Isn't the saying-like a dog with a bone?  I didn't realize babies were given bones.
 

Didn't Carol have a dog and a couple of cats all named Baby?  It seems like there was a scene where Bethenny was visiting and wondering why a writer was so uncreative with pet names.  I'm not sure if it was Baby though. 

Edited April 9, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[heatherchandler]

On 4/5/2018 at 1:23 PM, JAYJAY1979 said:

Luann should have been demoted for her behavior... her keeping an apple and a spot on the cast is rewarding her for her bad behavior.

 

 

No one should lose their job, their livelihood because of a Halloween costume.  I mean, that is crazy.

 

On 4/5/2018 at 10:03 AM, Higgins said:

So my bronzer is offensive? How about if I become tan from sun? Is that offensive too?

 

Ha!  If bronzer is offensive, then I am SUPER offensive.  I am a bronzer addict, and I don't care!

 

On 4/7/2018 at 8:47 PM, Jextella said:

 

I'm bummed to hear about Lindsay from Summer House.  Fool.  Just when I was starting to like her.  

What happened with Lindsay?  

 

 

2 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

 

Oh look some of Carole's greatest hits in hypocrisy:  http://www.realitytea.com/2016/04/29/carole-radziwill-defends-friendship-bethenny-frankel-retweets-slams-luann-de-lesseps/  Regarding just when did Luann call Carole a pedophile? A viewer called Carole out on her nonsense behavior of claiming a retweet is not the same as tweeting, but she laughed it off by claiming Luann deserves it because she called her a pedophile. Anyone remember this?! Anyone?! I mean WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?! Luann said a lot of egregious things (as did Carole), but I don’t recall this one, which Carole mentions every single day like Baby with a bone! 

Isn't the saying-like a dog with a bone?  I didn't realize babies were given bones.
 

"Baby" is her dog's name.

[Minzy]

Quote

Should she get the best room on the next trip because she got divorced?

"I got divorced AND I spent the night in jail. I deserve the best room."

[KungFuBunny]

8 minutes ago, Minzy said:

"I got divorced AND I spent the night in jail. I deserve the best room."

Does it really matter that Luann gets the best room?

She's just going to have a random hookup in someone else's room - not necessarily even another HW's

Then she's going to kill you all!!!

Edited April 9, 2018 by KungFuBunny

[jaync]

Quote

She [Beth] was completely inappropriate herself, but then forced her employees to get up and "dance sexy."   

She did the same to her birthday party guests a few seasons ago, and it was cringey. If you have to order people to dance at your party? Then it's a shitty party.

Quote

Ramona's costume was my favorite. Hair, make-up, perfection.

Mine, too. That the look was from the "Oops..." video was totally fitting for Ramona, too.

Quote

It was strange that Sonja didn't approach the group. But when Dorinda in her TH asks in a baby voice:  "Was Wocco afwaid to come over and say hawwo to us?", alls I could think of was: Um, yeah, Dorinda.  When you're drunk and loudly aggressive, you are frightening.  Hide the knives.

Seriously. When Dorinda acted bewildered as to why Sonja didn't reach out to her over the summer, I was like, "Drunky, please...you hate Sonja."

Quote

Her ridiculous video after Cookie's death and her blubbering on the sidewalk at Bobby's funeral was her "someone does or says something funny so I have to fling myself to the floor and roll around and laugh to show that my laughter is more relevant than their funny moment". She has to be acknowledged more than the funny or dying. 

Quote

However, do people buy her products if they hate her personality on TV?

Very unlikely, because why would they when there are plenty of other low-cal options available where the face of the brand doesn't turn them off? Also, it's not like this show gets a swarm of new viewers every season, so she's essentially pushing her products on the same audience over and over again. Those already buying her SG stuff will probably continue to do so, but I highly doubt even her stans double or triple down on their SG purchases while the show is airing.

I bet it made her itchy that her swill wasn't featured in some way at Dorinda's party.

[sasha206]

10 minutes ago, jaync said:

She did the same to her birthday party guests a few seasons ago, and it was cringey. If you have to order people to dance at your party? Then it's a shitty party.

Mine, too. That the look was from the "Oops..." video was totally fitting for Ramona, too.

Seriously. When Dorinda acted bewildered as to why Sonja didn't reach out to her over the summer, I was like, "Drunky, please...you hate Sonja."

Very unlikely, because why would they when there are plenty of other low-cal options available where the face of the brand doesn't turn them off? Also, it's not like this show gets a swarm of new viewers every season, so she's essentially pushing her products on the same audience over and over again. Those already buying her SG stuff will probably continue to do so, but I highly doubt even her stans double or triple down on their SG purchases while the show is airing.

I bet it made her itchy that her swill wasn't featured in some way at Dorinda's party.

When Bethenny was on Shark Tank, I was amused by her comments "what would prevent a larger company from taking your idea and..."  I mean, her entire line could be replicated by anyone.  And she didn't even invent the wheel in the first place -- most of her Skinny Girl products have been in existence for YEARS before she hit it big.  I'm of the mindset that the reason she actually hit it big was because of the name and the cute logo only.  Maybe the Skinny Girl alcoholic products were revolutionary (although where they really?), but everything else in her line is just a spinoff of stuff already in existence.

Edited April 9, 2018 by sasha206

[ZaldamoWilder]

When do ya'll sleep?  Lol! 

On 4/6/2018 at 7:43 PM, SCS said:

 

But my reply that you're quoting was in response to another post in which discrimination litigation, the courts  and law policy were being referenced in relation to Lu's ridiculous self-bronzing job, a connection that I don't see. My reason for bringing in Ramona et al is simply that all the peeps I mentioned have engaged in behaviors more in keeping with the law and courts. I cannot comment to Apollo as I had checked out of ATL before his stuff went down and don't know enough about what he did ( I visit that thread rarely, usually when someone mentions something that sounds interesting). As for Teresa G, I was actually thinking of some of her aggressive actions eg, chasing Danielle through the club or flinging Andy about, not the Giudices' financial crimes, punishment for which may very well have been hastened by the show but not the primary reason they got busted since they could have been on the Feds' radar for awhile (<< that was a rambling sentence, sorry!)

 

Re the Bravo contract: Every so often the idea that the women can't sue each other comes up; however, contracts can be invalidated if the plaintiff's atty can prove a valid reason to do so.  A friend actually signed that manner of contract and sued (successfully) after she was assaulted in a work situation. She told me the premise was based on surprise -- that she had signed the contract with the very reasonable belief that she was safe from assault and clearly was not. I am sure there are attorneys and others on here who can explain it better ( @Celia Rubenstein, I have no idea if you're an atty but you sure as hell have a solid grasp on legalities so your input is always welcome!) I wonder if these women don't push it because they would lose their employment and be thrust back into anonymity and has-been status, which, for most of them, would be like a little death. Also the more current contracts may indicate up front that the signee is at risk of assault, which, if accurate,  is just all kinds of weird that anyone would agree to that.

So, for me, it's not that deep but I agree with you that individual interpretation plays a big part.

thread moved on SCS, I just wanted to say I gotcha.   I didn't quote who you quoted (as if I know how) but her original point (I believe) was even when litigating, intention only plays so big a role before the crime simply is what it is.  IOW, it's good for the purposes of measuring degrees, not guilt or innocence.    As much stuff as has happened across the franchise, I'd be shocked if they could sue each other.  I don't know if you watch atl but Kenya and Porsha hate each other with the fire of a thousand suns.  Kenya would've dragged that ass into court by now on a nuisance claim alone lol. 

On 4/6/2018 at 10:01 PM, RHJunkie said:

Unfortunately, the video doesn't like that I'm Canadian so I can't see the video, lol. 

I've seen instances where people took offense at costumes that they felt weren't in true light of the person the costume was supposed to represent, therefore it was characterized as offensive and making a mockery of and this was without anything done to the skin so I wouldn't say it's exclusive just to darkening the skin, but the latter is usually the most common grievance that we see. 

Even though I can't see the video, from the title, I 100% concur with that sentiment. I don't think it's at all necessary to imitate the colour of someone's skin in an effort to be 'authentic' in your costume. I would never do it, and I would advise anyone against it and would try to reasonably explain why they shouldn't. That said, while there are many things you can give side eye to, I don't believe they are all offensively equal and I don't agree with societal reaction treating them as equal. As I pointed earlier in this thread, historically, blackface has a more sinister connotation then simply painting one's skin. So given the assumed intent of the person, I don't agree with treating that person who dressed up as their favourite singer or actor equal to the white man who decades ago painted his face in an effort to intentionally demean the black people and culture through the way he imitated their speech and behaviours. I've seen all kinds of costumes that imitate other cultures as well and include painting one's skin white, red, yellow, etc. and if we are to understand that race isn't a costume (again, which I totally agree), then why is there a disproportionate amount of instances where it's the 'blackface' that gets called out and not the others? I saw online that one person's defense is that when a non-white person paints their face white and imitates a white man (even mockingly), it's not the same as a white man simply dressed as Tiger Woods with tanned skin because white people aren't a minority and don't have to deal with systematic oppression. That's a slippery slope if we begin feeling comfortable enough to infer that because you're white, you can't ever experience racism or discrimination from others. So when I see this happening to all races yet the media pounces on the black costumes, it comes across as more of a media grab that aids political correctness than it does about educating people that race isn't a costume because this isn't exclusive to people who dress up as black people and paint their skin. Personally, it takes a bit to get me emotionally riled up to the point where I would describe myself as being 'offended'. So on my scale of things, this isn't offensive to me, but it's certainly a teachable moment. 

I'm holding a fund raiser for Cancer research, there are keynote speakers and guests of honor up on the dais.   After one of the presentations, questions are being taken.  You raise your hand and say:  AIDS is important also, why can't we talk about the funds and R&D it would take to wipe out AIDS?   

1) The fact that other potentially terminal diseases are just as important as Cancer needn't be stated, it's a default assumption.  

2) This room full of people here today about Cancer research does not eliminate whatever concern they may have for AIDS. 

3) Waiting to use one group's grievances as the opportunity and platform to point to why another group's grievances have not been highlighted redirects the conversation and seeks to invalidate the primary group's grievance.   There is nothing stopping you from holding an AIDS fund raiser.    I think the examples you mentioned were Kabuki and the Wayans Brothers' White Chicks.   Your question was why aren't they as objectionable?   Mine is who says they aren't?  Object if they're shitty but don't Kanye mic grab and wait until I'm getting my award to be like:  are ya'll shitting me, Beyonce had one of the best albums of the year, ya'll giving this to Taylor for real?   <---- you see why that wasn't cool?   I wish the video would play for you, it articulates it much better than I'm capable.  The bottom line is it isn't that slippery  Don't try and make the shit fair, it doesn't have to be fair and, if you're (general you) familiar with the underlying reasons the offense is offensive, it can also never be equal.   

[Mrs peel]

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:41 AM, HunterHunted said:

That and being married to an antisemite. Victoria's n-bomb and now this. They sound like terrible people to be around.

Personally, I can't fault Luann for the fact her ex-husband apparently is an anti-Semite (though I don't recall seeing any indications of that, though he did appear to be a jerk); nor that her daughter once used the n-word.  Both are objectionable, but she doesn't have complete ability to control others.  On the scalping and "woo woo", she was responding to Carole complaining that Luann - who apparently is part Native American - referenced being an American Indian.  I think Luann can use whatever term she wants for her own ethnicity.  YMMV.

[Mrs peel]

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 11:08 AM, Natalie68 said:

I thought it sounded fantastic as well!  When you think about it it's not much different from living in your own rental with staff.  The rent (last year) was said to be $7K/mo.  Apartments she looked at cost about the same.  But with the hotel she gets hotel staff.  Seems like maybe a cost savings?  Anyway, she has $ and if I had her $ I would be lazy AF.

I like having my own things around too much to live in a hotel.  And I have far too much "stuff" to fit into a hotel suite.

[RHJunkie]

6 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

When do ya'll sleep?  Lol! 

thread moved on SCS, I just wanted to say I gotcha.   I didn't quote who you quoted (as if I know how) but her original point (I believe) was even when litigating, intention only plays so big a role before the crime simply is what it is.  IOW, it's good for the purposes of measuring degrees, not guilt or innocence.    As much stuff as has happened across the franchise, I'd be shocked if they could sue each other.  I don't know if you watch atl but Kenya and Porsha hate each other with the fire of a thousand suns.  Kenya would've dragged that ass into court by now on a nuisance claim alone lol. 

I'm holding a fund raiser for Cancer research, there are keynote speakers and guests of honor up on the dais.   After one of the presentations, questions are being taken.  You raise your hand and say:  AIDS is important also, why can't we talk about the funds and R&D it would take to wipe out AIDS?   

1) The fact that other potentially terminal diseases are just as important as Cancer needn't be stated, it's a default assumption.  

2) This room full of people here today about Cancer research does not eliminate whatever concern they may have for AIDS. 

3) Waiting to use one group's grievances as the opportunity and platform to point to why another group's grievances have not been highlighted redirects the conversation and seeks to invalidate the primary group's grievance.   There is nothing stopping you from holding an AIDS fund raiser.    I think the examples you mentioned were Kabuki and the Wayans Brothers' White Chicks.   Your question was why aren't they as objectionable?   Mine is who says they aren't?  Object if they're shitty but don't Kanye mic grab and wait until I'm getting my award to be like:  are ya'll shitting me, Beyonce had one of the best albums of the year, ya'll giving this to Taylor for real?   <---- you see why that wasn't cool?   I wish the video would play for you, it articulates it much better than I'm capable.  The bottom line is it isn't that slippery  Don't try and make the shit fair, it doesn't have to be fair and, if you're (general you) familiar with the underlying reasons the offense is offensive, it can also never be equal.   

I totally get what you're saying, but in reading back my post that you quoted, I feel I need to clarify a few things because I think my responses may have been an amalgamation of thoughts based on posts I made throughout this thread but not all were in response to you (I tend to forget that I'm not always responding to the same person and I forget to restate a point before elaborating, I just assume my position is already understood).

When I referred to only blackface (and this would also apply to cultural appropriation) getting disproportionately called out, I wasn't referring to it disproportionately called out by individuals, I meant by the media. I think I referenced it later on in my post but I should have done so earlier because reading it back, I can see how it's interpreted as 'black people only complaining about blackface even though it happens to others'. That wasn't my intention with that comment. I whole heartedly agree with everything you said in your post. It's why movements like #alllivesmatter and #bluelivesmatter are so damaging, it's a protest of another group's protest that aims to discredit their message and issues that they're trying to rectify within their communities. And to also clarify my personal position, speaking up for one social cause doesn't make an individual beholden to speak up for all. Their silence doesn't mean that they don't agree with other issues of racism, cultural appropriate, prejudice, etc., but it's completely natural that we lend our voices to the causes that we are most passionate about and that's often directly related to issues that personally affect us and/or our family and friends.

Earlier in this thread I was acknowledging that the way the conversation happens is many cases is not helpful to the cause. It often has the opposite effect. Particularly when someone feels they haven't done something malicious. The reference to White Chicks and the response that I provided from someone on Twitter was provided as a mild example of conversations that I think just leads to circular arguments and in the end, the offender still has no idea why their words or actions are offensive. When you know someone has done something out of ignorance and not maliciousness, I think those are the people that are easier to reach. When they feel attacked and severely judged for their ignorance, I think it heightens the likelihood that they secretly (or obviously) become one of those people who start pointing the finger at the other side for being offended rather than acknowledging how they are responsible for offending them and understanding why it's hurtful. Many of the references I made are exactly what the other side says when they hear stories of a woman who dressed up one of her favourite singers and darkened her skin for 'authenticity'. Sure, there are some who know and don't care, but there's a lot of people who are extremely tone deaf to history and social issues and it honestly hurts me to see how easily conversations get degraded into screaming matches and trading insults because two sides don't spend enough time listening to one another because they're too busy focused on the point they want to make. An important message gets lost in the chaos. This is where I think the media fails people because they should be using their platform to discuss the overall significance of these issues, not isolated incidents. While I can't see the video you posted, I think maybe everyone who responds to such a cause should watch videos like the one you shared so that they know how to address these incidents in a way that's measured but still effective.

And to clarify, I only get offended by things that I think are intended to be malicious, but that don't mean it can't be stupid and Luann's costume was definitely a stupid decision.

[ZaldamoWilder]

5 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

And to clarify, I only get offended by things that I think are intended to be malicious, but that don't mean it can't be stupid and Luann's costume was definitely a stupid decision.

girl I totally get it.   you were clear the first time, I think this is the statement that sums up our (philosophical?) differences - intent doesn't usually matter to me because it doesn't alter the outcome.  

[RHJunkie]

6 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

girl I totally get it.   you were clear the first time, I think this is the statement that sums up our (philosophical?) differences - intent doesn't usually matter to me because it doesn't alter the outcome.  

Totally fair and I respect that. Perhaps a more agreed upon point is that if you want to say and/or do racist, ignorant or stupid shit, you're going to learn a hard lesson one way or another, lol.

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 minute ago, RHJunkie said:

Totally fair and I respect that. Perhaps a more agreed upon point is that if you want to say and/or do racist, ignorant or stupid shit, you're going to learn a hard lesson one way or another, lol.

Pleasure doing business with ya.   :D

[sasha206]

23 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

girl I totally get it.   you were clear the first time, I think this is the statement that sums up our (philosophical?) differences - intent doesn't usually matter to me because it doesn't alter the outcome.  

Off topic, but if that is you in your profile pic, you are GORGEOUS!  I only say "if that is you in your profile pic" because you look like you should be in movies!

[HunterHunted]

1 minute ago, Mrs peel said:

Personally, I can't fault Luann for the fact her ex-husband apparently is an anti-Semite (though I don't recall seeing any indications of that, though he did appear to be a jerk); nor that her daughter once used the n-word.  Both are objectionable, but she doesn't have complete ability to control others.  On the scalping and "woo woo", she was responding to Carole complaining that Luann - who apparently is part Native American - referenced being an American Indian.  I think Luann can use whatever term she wants for her own ethnicity.  YMMV.

I can and will fault her. I'm a Black woman. I don't get that luxury to stay silent about the ignorant shit coming out of the mouths of those in my life because...and they came for me. It's not long before the ignorant shit starts hitting closer to home. Luann was the one who said on camera that that Alex wouldn't like that Jacques is Jewish. If bigotry actually bothers you, don't marry a bigot. If bigotry actually bothers you, don't record a confessional about how your ex is an anti-semite and then giggle. My siblings and I don't use racist epithets because my parents were adamant that it is unacceptable to judge people by their race. What I'm left with is that racism and bigotry weren't deal breakers for Luann. Her daughter didn't learn the lesson from Luann and it certainly was never reinforced by Alex. So you are correct, that Luann can't do anything to truly control the language and behavior of others, but it doesn't look like she did a whole hell of a lot negatively reinforce behaviors she disapproved of. 

Luann is a woman of Native American/First Nations ancestry who can pass as white. From her references of it on the show she's not especially plugged into that part of heritage, which is why she thought the scalping and war whooping were hilarious. They are not. 

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/other-things-said-about-american-indians-on-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/tonights-real-housewives-features-misinformed-debate-over-un-racist-remark/

As the author(s) of pieces above states, Luann is free to use whatever terms she wants for her ethnicity. However, she is not free to traffic in offensive stereotypes like war whooping and scalping.

Even if I can write off the fact that Jacques affectionately called her his "wild savage" her utter cluelessness of how offensively that might come off is stupifying. People can be weird and transgressive in their bedrooms, but I don't need to hear that in the real world. That also tells me that her "real" friends don't ever consider these issues because she would have figured out a long time ago to watch her mouth.

Similarly as much as I like Dorinda, I would never trust her based on the situations with the coat and the coffee cup. When people show you who they are, believe them.

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

No one should lose their job, their livelihood because of a Halloween costume.  I mean, that is crazy.

I'm going to disagree. No one should lose their job over this costume. I can imagine a number of others that are so offensive and in certain types of employment that you might say "Yeah, you don't get to keep your job" when the pictures pop up on Facebook: teacher who dresses as a pedophile pedafile* priest, dressing as a Nazi, or a klansman.

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Ha!  If bronzer is offensive, then I am SUPER offensive.  I am a bronzer addict, and I don't care!

Bronzer in and of itself is not offensive. That is Luann's a purposeful misinterpretation of what the issue is, which is bronzer intentionally used to achieve a darker skin color in order to impersonate a person of color is  ok.

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

What happened with Lindsay? 

@RedDelicious mentioned that Lindsay on Summer House got a really dark spray tan and said in her Instagram stories, "guys, I'm black!!".

*I'm always going to make fun of Luann misspelling pedophile.

[crgirl412]

14 hours ago, Minzy said:

Nah, not really. It probably means they just haven't found the right format, IMO.

3 seasons is pretty decent for a reality TV show.

I mean, who knew a show about Lisa Vanderpump baby-sitting a bunch of "pretty" STD factories would be a hit and last this long? Some formulas work, others don't.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!  Best description of Vanderpump Rules ever!!!!!

14 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

I am guessing that LVP and her crew are genuinely interesting enough to people to sustain a reality show. 

Bethenny and Fredrik, Yolanda, Eddie and LeAnne not so much.

Oh my God, no they aren't.  They are gross and remind me of one of those knock off shows on E!  They make LVP look like a very, very bad business owner and manager.  I think there is stuff going on between Giggy Vanderpump and Wacha Cohen to keep it on the air. 

[ZaldamoWilder]

31 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Off topic, but if that is you in your profile pic, you are GORGEOUS!  I only say "if that is you in your profile pic" because you look like you should be in movies!

Off-off topic, lol that’s me.  Thanks girl that’s super sweet.  

 

[JakeyJokes]

8 hours ago, ryebread said:

All this talk about sluts, reminded me of this:

Carole sez re: Halloween, "But let's be honest.  It's a day that all women can dress up as sluts and feel good about themselves."

C'mon, Amelia. Saying that dressing scantily is dressing as a slut isn't even the worst part of that statement. That women have to do so to feel good about themselves? 

Oy.  Girl power.

Blame Tina Fey. Halloween having a "slut rule" in which girls can dress in skimpy attire and not feel bad about it was perpetuated in Mean Girls 13 years ago.

[zoeysmom]

19 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

I can and will fault her. I'm a Black woman. I don't get that luxury to stay silent about the ignorant shit coming out of the mouths of those in my life because...and they came for me. It's not long before the ignorant shit starts hitting closer to home. Luann was the one who said on camera that that Alex wouldn't like that Jacques is Jewish. If bigotry actually bothers you, don't marry a bigot. If bigotry actually bothers you, don't record a confessional about how your ex is an anti-semite and then giggle. My siblings and I don't use racist epithets because my parents were adamant that it is unacceptable to judge people by their race. What I'm left with is that racism and bigotry weren't deal breakers for Luann. Her daughter didn't learn the lesson from Luann and it certainly was never reinforced by Alex. So you are correct, that Luann can't do anything to truly control the language and behavior of others, but it doesn't look like she did a whole hell of a lot negatively reinforce behaviors she disapproved of. 

Luann is a woman of Native American/First Nations ancestry who can pass as white. From her references of it on the show she's not especially plugged into that part of heritage, which is why she thought the scalping and war whooping were hilarious. They are not. 

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/other-things-said-about-american-indians-on-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/

https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/tonights-real-housewives-features-misinformed-debate-over-un-racist-remark/

As the author(s) of pieces above states, Luann is free to use whatever terms she wants for her ethnicity. However, she is not free to traffic in offensive stereotypes like war whooping and scalping.

Even if I can write off the fact that Jacques affectionately called her his "wild savage" her utter cluelessness of how offensively that might come off is stupifying. People can be weird and transgressive in their bedrooms, but I don't need to hear that in the real world. That also tells me that her "real" friends don't ever consider these issues because she would have figured out a long time ago to watch her mouth.

Similarly as much as I like Dorinda, I would never trust her based on the situations with the coat and the coffee cup. When people show you who they are, believe them.

I'm going to disagree. No one should lose their job over this costume. I can imagine a number of others that are so offensive and in certain types of employment that you might say "Yeah, you don't get to keep your job" when the pictures pop up on Facebook: teacher who dresses as a pedophile pedafile* priest, dressing as a Nazi, or a klansman.

Bronzer in and of itself is not offensive. That is Luann's a purposeful misinterpretation of what the issue is, which is bronzer intentionally used to achieve a darker skin color in order to impersonate a person of color is  ok.

@RedDelicious mentioned that Lindsay on Summer House got a really dark spray tan and said in her Instagram stories, "guys, I'm black!!".

*I'm always going to make fun of Luann misspelling pedophile.

Luann has said she did not use bronzer to darken her skin she always uses it:

I would like to clear the air, I love and respect Diana Ross, this was my tribute to her I was showing my sincere admiration. I in no way altered my skin color and I did not mean to offend anyone.

And from Bethenny's twitter feed:

Tweet to Bethenny: Luann’s in blackface, please talk about that

I was literally with her partying til 3 am & never noticed. @DorindaMedIey came over the next week & told me. Now watching I noticed. I was buzzed.

Seems strange.

It seems odd that Bethenny would not have noticed Luann's skin color.  Bethenny isn't exactly a Luann fan.

[njbchlover]

9 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Off-off topic, lol that’s me.  Thanks girl that’s super sweet.  

 

 

Oh, ZW - you are a TRIPLE THREAT....hysterically funny, exceptionally smart and downright beautiful!!  :-)   Given those traits, I think it's safe to assume you will not be chosen to replace a housewife of any franchise, anywhere!   (And I mean that as a BIG compliment!)   

[jaync]

Quote

I am guessing that LVP and her crew are genuinely interesting enough to people to sustain a reality show. 

Yep, VR's longevity is due to it being one of the most consistently entertaining and highly rated shows on Bravo. Many a HW would give their left tit to have such a successful spin-off.

Quote

It seems odd that Bethenny would not have noticed Luann's skin color. 

That was odd, especially since Beth considers herself to be an honorary WOC.

[Jel]

26 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Off-off topic, lol that’s me.  Thanks girl that’s super sweet.  

 

That gif is adorable, and apt, because you really do have all the crowns, ZW.

[sasha206]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

 

@RedDelicious mentioned that Lindsay on Summer House got a really dark spray tan and said in her Instagram stories, "guys, I'm black!!".

*I'm always going to make fun of Luann misspelling pedophile.

Oh geez, I HATE Lindsay from Summer House.  Actually, I hate them all on Summer House, especially those obnoxious twins.

[HunterHunted]

2 minutes ago, sasha206 said:

Oh geez, I HATE Lindsay from Summer House.  Actually, I hate them all on Summer House, especially those obnoxious twins.

Summer House is what you watch when you want to be reminded that the chucklefucks on Vanderpump Rules could be less likeable.

[tvfanatic13]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:08 AM, bichonblitz said:

So I'm assuming once the camera's stop rolling none of these women see each other? For like 8 month stretches at a time? Except maybe the new friendship between Carole and Tinsley and the couples trip they took quite a while ago?

I think Scott must have realized Tins is a little too batshit crazy for him and he jumped head first in to that fire too quickly, now he's slowly backing away. Smart move, Scott!

Carole and Adam's relationship is sad to me. I think she really loved him but would never admit how deeply she felt because she knew the age difference was too much and he would eventually grow tired of her, it was just a matter of time, so she puts on this brave liberated woman schtick of liking her cake, too. Meanwhile, she's really hurting.

I love the backdrop of NYC and I love watching the truly wealthy lifestyle they live. Spending summers in France, or the Hamptons, living in a 5 star hotels having every whim catered to. Their style, their fights. Everything! 

My thoughts exactly Bichonblitz. None of these women are "friends." It is painfully obvious that they have nothing to do with each other between seasons. 

[SuprSuprElevated]

37 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Summer House is what you watch when you want to be reminded that the chucklefucks on Vanderpump Rules could be less likeable.

I've never watched Summer House, and I stopped watching VPR somewhere in the 2nd season.  Thank you for affirming my choices.  

[crgirl412]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Summer House is what you watch when you want to be reminded that the chucklefucks on Vanderpump Rules could be less likeable.

This is SO true!!!!! 

[Minzy]

Quote

Oh my God, no they aren't.  They are gross and remind me of one of those knock off shows on E!  They make LVP look like a very, very bad business owner and manager.  I think there is stuff going on between Giggy Vanderpump and Wacha Cohen to keep it on the air. 

Maybe if she gets another spin-off, Bethenny should set the show at SG, surround herself with a bunch of horny vapid 20 and 30something employees and interns, while she walks around with a (SK branded) red solo cup all the time?

[diadochokinesis]

9 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

Personally, I can't fault Luann for the fact her ex-husband apparently is an anti-Semite (though I don't recall seeing any indications of that, though he did appear to be a jerk); nor that her daughter once used the n-word.  Both are objectionable, but she doesn't have complete ability to control others.  On the scalping and "woo woo", she was responding to Carole complaining that Luann - who apparently is part Native American - referenced being an American Indian.  I think Luann can use whatever term she wants for her own ethnicity.  YMMV.

But you have to consider that Lu was being complicit by staying with the Count all those years knowing that he was an anti-Semite.  It tends to give off the idea that she is ok with anti-Semitism.  For example, I couldn't marry a racist because I abhor those values.  I couldn't even be friends with a racist. 

8 hours ago, JakeyJokes said:

Blame Tina Fey. Halloween having a "slut rule" in which girls can dress in skimpy attire and not feel bad about it was perpetuated in Mean Girls 13 years ago.

So, that was also referenced in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (season 2) during their Halloween episode back in 1997 when Buffy told Willow that she should get slutty because it is the one time a year that girls can get slutty without recrimination.  Willow then dressed as a ghost (with the slutty costume underneath which was great because hijinks then ensued). 

Tl,dr: Slutty costumes for Halloween have been around forever because hey, let's shame women and make them feel like their bodies should be hidden away because heaven forbid a man be responsible for his actions. 

[Ki-in]

20 hours ago, sasha206 said:

I will say that I wish Sonja wasn't as over the top sexual as she is.  By that I mean, she leads with her sexuality and talks about it so much that it seems like she rarely ever says no.  Fortunately, she didn't give that creepy Aviva Drescher's dad the time of day.  Speaking of the dad, I'm surprised it took a second season before Carole seemed disgusted by Aviva's dad.  For someone so socially aware, I'm surprised she wasn't vocal about his disgusting antics from day 1 of his arrival.  I was disappointed in her with that.  I think all the housewives with the exception of Ramona really poo--poo'd Sonja's comment about him rubbing his erection on her. It was almost as they figured, well, it's Sonja.  She's a whore anyway!

Carole seems pretty enamored with George here, calling him her hero and flirting with him:

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-5/videos/caroles-first-squirting-orgasm