Josiah and Lauren: He Has To Marry Somebody

[Temperance]

3 hours ago, Christina87 said:

I feel bad that Josiah and Lauren are constantly asked about pregnancy, too. Pregnancy is the duggars' brand, and I wouldn't feel one iota bad or Jessa or Jill to be asked constantly about it, since they have run their mouths into oblivion about how holy it is to procreate for Jesus the second you get married, how you have to leave it up to God, how you have to be joyfully available, and just their smugness about their pregnancies / births that they've had. People hounding them about pregnancies doesn't bother me one bit, and I even feel on the fence about joy / Kendra. As for the rest...Jinger and Jeremy said babies were in their five year plan, so they shouldn't be harassed. John and Abbie have stayed quiet about it. Josiah and Lauren specifically said that they were going to take it slow once they got married. How much plainer can they be? I hate that just because some members of the family are smug "I'm better than you because I breed constantly for Jesus" types, that the others get harassed too. 

Both Joy and Kendra have said they are leaving how many kids they are going to have up to God. Joy said it before she got married and seems to have realized they need to take it slow since the c-section. When Joy and Kendra and Jinger were asked about it during a joint interview session, Joy said "she and Austin love children so they would see." Kendra said "we're leaving it up to God." 

[Temperance]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm guessing that comment was about something other than baby making. It seems Lauren became pregnant on their wedding night and that's not "taking it slow" in regard to pregnancy.

Josiah is right in that the public is curious about when Duggar couples are expecting children. Their parents show was called 19 Kids and Counting. The adult children's show is called Counting On. If he wants privacy regarding his marriage and future children he has options, as do his siblings and siblings-in-law.

I didn't get the impression that Josiah was complaining. It seemed he was explaining they opted to go public about the miscarriage to avoid the uncomfortable and sad explanation of having to say why they're not pregnant.

I tend to agree with this although I'm not sure how far along she was. I though she was due around when Jessa is due so after the first month of marriage. 

It is very hard to rid oneself of the kool-aid that family planning and birth control are morally wrong*. Both Josiah and Lauren were raised IBLP and they will have difficulty deciding to do things differently. 

*Editing to add: There is no wrong with either family planning or birth control. People should make whatever decisions are right for them.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Temperance

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Didn’t Michelle say when there was no Jubilee heartbeat “the lord giveth and the lord taketh away”?

I remember that. 

[Sew Sumi]

6 hours ago, SabineElisabeth said:

I didn't realize any of the Duggars ever used him as their doctor?  In fact, I thought that idea was brought up then dismissed as just more pot-stirring gossip someone threw out there, trying to get something to stick. 

Derelict went to him when they were trying to figure out why he was vomiting all the time. I think he referred them to the allergist who told Derelict that he's allergic to just about everything.

2 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Didn’t Michelle say when there was no Jubilee heartbeat “the lord giveth and the lord taketh away”?

Yes, that's what she said on camera.

[ginger90]

Jill was told to get further testing on her carotid artery, during Derick’s gagging appointment, I believe.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, ginger90 said:

Jill was told to get further testing on her carotid artery, during Derick’s gagging appointment, I believe.

That's right. I'd forgotten about that. At any rate, that was Fedosky.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[babyhouseman]

6 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

I feel sort of bad for her...she’s a teenager in an arranged marriage in a cult that bases a woman’s worth on how many babies she produces. Now this happens.

Statistically, someone in this vast clan was going to have fertility issues. I can only hope the cult is supportive.

One of the Bates daughters has struggled with infertility for years. Infertility is hard enough without being in a babymaking cult. 

[Lunera]

They went to a morning talk show to talk about the miscarriage and push the new season.

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Lunera said:

They went to a morning talk show to talk about the miscarriage and push the new season.

Wow, there is absolutely no love or warmth between Josiah and Lauren whatsoever. Si's body is stiff and he didn't even turn towards his wife or offer a gesture of affection when she got emotional talking about the miscarriage. They're newlyweds, ffs. They come across like a middle-aged couple seething with twenty years worth of resentment.

Was Lauren seeing a doctor? She couldn't even answer how far along she was. It sounds like the pee stick turned blue and she got a bad period a few days later.

They are officially the weirdest and saddest couple of the bunch, and that's saying a lot....

Edited February 13, 2019 by BitterApple

[ginger90]

“All the other couples, and their little lives”. Oh my.

[jcbrown]

9 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

“All the other couples, and their little lives”. Oh my.

Unintended accuracy there, I'd think.

[Saylii]

I don’t think it was a wedding night baby at least.  The picture of the two of them at the pro-life banquet was posted to IG 10/25 and everyone thought she looked pregnant there.  I also can’t see Lauren showing up fresh to a pro-life event days after a miscarriage.  I’m thinking it happened that last week in October, especially since they basically went dark until Christmas.  Based on her comments, she was probably about 6-7 weeks pregnant.

[Sew Sumi]

She announced the pregnancy on Mechelle's birthday, 9/13. In the talk show interview, Lauren said she miscarried shortly after. So, I think that she miscarried sometime in late September. They were very cagey about when it happened and how far along she was, other than "first trimester."

[Saylii]

Hmm, they said in one of the magazine articles it was October.  Guess it was early October then.  Or they peed on the stick at Michelle’s birthday.  I could see that being a fun party trick in that family.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Saylii

[Sew Sumi]

If that's the case, then Lauren had that Mamma in the Making tee shirt stashed away waiting for its time. Frankly, that wouldn't surprise me, given her entire identity from here on out is tied to her fertility.

[louannems]

48 minutes ago, Saylii said:

I don’t think it was a wedding night baby at least.  The picture of the two of them at the pro-life banquet was posted to IG 10/25 and everyone thought she looked pregnant there.  I also can’t see Lauren showing up fresh to a pro-life event days after a miscarriage.  I’m thinking it happened that last week in October, especially since they basically went dark until Christmas.  Based on her comments, she was probably about 6-7 weeks pregnant.

Lauren said when she miscarried, she saw her baby in the toilet.  At 6 weeks, wouldn't she have just seen mentrual blood in the toilet?  And do even Christians believe that these very early miscarriages go to heaven?

[Sew Sumi]

Josiah said both in the TV interview and the IG post that they hoped to "see their baby in heaven someday."

[cmr2014]

51 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

If that's the case, then Lauren had that Mamma in the Making tee shirt stashed away waiting for its time. Frankly, that wouldn't surprise me, given her entire identity from here on out is tied to her fertility.

I'm sure it was a wedding gift from a Duggar,

[cmr2014]

27 minutes ago, louannems said:

Lauren said when she miscarried, she saw her baby in the toilet.  At 6 weeks, wouldn't she have just seen mentrual blood in the toilet?  And do even Christians believe that these very early miscarriages go to heaven?

Of course she would have. I just double checked and an embryo is the size of a sweet pea at 6 weeks. I think she "believed" that she did, but I doubt that she actually did.

[JoanArc]

Based on that thumbnail, and the two minutes I watched before getting irrationally pissed, Josiah is looking more and more like Josh 2.0. Josh-siah?

Quote

Lauren said when she miscarried, she saw her baby in the toilet.  At 6 weeks, wouldn't she have just seen mentrual blood in the toilet?  

Using Jinger metrics - the size of a sweet pea - she could have, maybe, thought she saw something. Wishful thinking, most likely. I suppose she could've one-upped Jessa and had 'twins'.

Quote

Josiah said both in the TV interview and the IG post that they hoped to "see their baby in heaven someday."

And talk about/do what? "Hey, remember that time I gave you mild nausea? Didn't I have a nice tail?

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

And talk about/do what? "Hey, remember that time I gave you mild nausea? Didn't I have a nice tail?

Well, that's about as substantive a conversation as Duggars ever have, I'd imagine .... So, yeah....And of course they'd all tell each other how much they admire the way they love the Lord....That line of talk'ld take up a millennium or so. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Churchhoney

[JoanArc]

23 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, that's about as substantive a conversation as Duggars ever have, I'd imagine .... So, yeah....And of course they'd all tell each other how much they admire the way they love the Lord....That line of talk'ld take up a millennium or so. 

I'm sorry, it's just their idea of heaven is so ridiculous. Go out play soccer with Moses for the next three billion eons, kids, then we'll get on the heavenly microphones an trade stilted cliches through a few heat deaths of universes...

(If anyone wants to be deliciously tortured - read the later Left Behind books that are set on post-Jesus return earth, and Heaven. Everyone is incapable of feeling any emotion but joy. Bible heroes visit people and robotically speak. Animals gratefully like up to be slaughtered for food. It's really an ironic hell. The Duggar house is pretty much that version of heaven-on-earth.)

Edit: Oh, and something that bothered me - why no funeral? No ammo can? No big production? It was a person, right?

Edited February 13, 2019 by JoanArc

[Lukeysboat]

18 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

Didn’t Michelle say when there was no Jubilee heartbeat “the lord giveth and the lord taketh away”?

It’s a verse from Job. 

[Barb23]

9 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

I'm sure it was a wedding gift from a Duggar,

Probably Anna.  Remember she & the little M's made that horrid baby mobile for Derek & Jill? 

I wonder if Anna feels a little jealous that Josiah & Lauren are getting all the attention incl talk show appearances about their miscarriage when her & Smuggs just got a blurb about Anna's miscarriage?  (Which I think was the better way to do it.)

9 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

Of course she would have. I just double checked and an embryo is the size of a sweet pea at 6 weeks. I think she "believed" that she did, but I doubt that she actually did.

She also mentioned "losing their only child" like it was a 5 year child that died. 

[BitterApple]

19 minutes ago, Barb23 said:

She also mentioned "losing their only child" like it was a 5 year child that died. 

Lauren strikes me as a bit of a drama queen. I feel bad for what happened, but something about her is so off-putting.

[leighdear]

14 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Lauren strikes me as a bit of a drama queen. I feel bad for what happened, but something about her is so off-putting.

Agreed.  She is still a teen, so of course the more dramatic, the better.  And it seems her main exposure to this family has all been media influenced, televised and in the popular press.  She definitely seems to have absorbed more of their " C-list celebrity culture" than say Austin or Kendra.  

[jukie]

Whoa that clip of them on the morning talk show, I don't even think they like each other let alone love each other.  The blatant lack of chemistry, and zero compassion or empathy shown by Josiah is heartbreaking.  I am sorry even if someone I didn't know was talking about something and got very obviously upset I would comfort them, even just a hand gesture or at least focus on them.

[TresGatos]

4 hours ago, JoanArc said:

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Edit: Oh, and something that bothered me - why no funeral? No ammo can? No big production? It was a person, right?

Lauren said when she miscarried, she saw her baby in the toilet. 

Did she flush or go fetch a fish net?

[libgirl2]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I'm sorry, it's just their idea of heaven is so ridiculous. Go out play soccer with Moses for the next three billion eons, kids, then we'll get on the heavenly microphones an trade stilted cliches through a few heat deaths of universes...

(If anyone wants to be deliciously tortured - read the later Left Behind books that are set on post-Jesus return earth, and Heaven. Everyone is incapable of feeling any emotion but joy. Bible heroes visit people and robotically speak. Animals gratefully like up to be slaughtered for food. It's really an ironic hell. The Duggar house is pretty much that version of heaven-on-earth.)

Edit: Oh, and something that bothered me - why no funeral? No ammo can? No big production? It was a person, right?

I had read a couple of the books and was curious about how they would handle Christ's return. It was awfully done. I remember one of the characters saying "Wow, its Jesus!"  or "I can't believe its Jesus" or something like that. 

[Snow Fairy]

I had a misscariage at 7-8 weeks and yes, you can see gestational sac with embryo, it is not uncommon. I know when my came out, but I just did not want to look at that :(

And I saw a baby on ultrasound, it had a heartbeat then

[Oldernowiser]

Grieving is such an individual thing. It could be that all her hopes were pinned on a baby. It doesn’t seem like she’s all that thrilled with her marriage and these women aren’t allowed anything else but JESUS.

So as much as I think this is a private matter that should not be talk show or People magazine bait, I have to try to remember how hard it can be when hopes are taken away.

[Jynnan tonnix]

23 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Grieving is such an individual thing. It could be that all her hopes were pinned on a baby. It doesn’t seem like she’s all that thrilled with her marriage and these women aren’t allowed anything else but JESUS.

So as much as I think this is a private matter that should not be talk show or People magazine bait, I have to try to remember how hard it can be when hopes are taken away.

I suppose, if some of the sense we are getting of these two from the body language, etc, is accurate, she may feel that a baby is the only way that she will have some actual love in her marriage.

[Churchhoney]

11 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

Of course she would have. I just double checked and an embryo is the size of a sweet pea at 6 weeks. I think she "believed" that she did, but I doubt that she actually did.

Sounds right to me. That "sweet pea" description was driving me crazy....Don't they mean just a damn green pea? A "sweetpea" is a flower that's way bigger than a green pea. What the HECK?

Anyway, I looked further. .... And it seems that the little curled-up creature that's a 6-week embryo is between about one-tenth of an inch in diameter and one-quarter inch in diameter.   

Very small and hard to notice, although, obviously, possible. 

Edited February 13, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, jukie said:

Whoa that clip of them on the morning talk show, I don't even think they like each other let alone love each other.  The blatant lack of chemistry, and zero compassion or empathy shown by Josiah is heartbreaking.  I am sorry even if someone I didn't know was talking about something and got very obviously upset I would comfort them, even just a hand gesture or at least focus on them.

Remember the body language on the Megyn Kelly interview when Jill broke up and Jessa sat nearby apparently unmoved? (I don't watch them, so I think I remember people saying this happened. If not, sorry about the error.) 

In any case, though, I don't think exhibiting physical, verbal or any other kind of empathy to another person struggling is something that the Duggars have imbibed with their mother's milk, if you get my drift. 

As for whether they actually feel the empathy inside but don't act on it, I do think that's possible. So I wouldn't go nearly so far as to say they have no empathy. It's never been modeled for them in any way, shape, or form, though, as far as I can tell. 

So if that is actually the case, it would certainly inhibit some people from ever showing it or even letting themselves know they feel it.

Plus, hasn't actual sniping already been seen between Lauren and Josiah -- mainly coming from Lauren's side? If you already were inhibited about reaching out to someone, you felt sadly disconnected from them even though you were married to them (which a lot of people posit they both do), and that person has said some snide things to you that suggest she doesn't like you either, all of those things would make you unlikely to reach out, I would think. (especially with tv cameras all around)

Edited February 13, 2019 by Churchhoney

[Saylii]

You can definitely tell there’s something in the blood clots when it all comes out.  I wouldn’t necessarily call it “the baby” but there can be parts of tissue/placenta/uterus shredding that you can visibly see.

I sincerely hope that Josiah, JB, and Daddy Dwain are supportive of her getting prenatal care in the future.  She probably wasn’t far enough along for any real appointments, but she should meet with an OB now and get situated before her next pregnancy.  Hopefully it was a one-off situation and she will have healthy babies.  But coupled with her other health problems she may need professional support to keep a baby to term. 

[Natalie68]

17 hours ago, BitterApple said:

Wow, there is absolutely no love or warmth between Josiah and Lauren whatsoever. Si's body is stiff and he didn't even turn towards his wife or offer a gesture of affection when she got emotional talking about the miscarriage. They're newlyweds, ffs. They come across like a middle-aged couple seething with twenty years worth of resentment.

Was Lauren seeing a doctor? She couldn't even answer how far along she was. It sounds like the pee stick turned blue and she got a bad period a few days later.

They are officially the weirdest and saddest couple of the bunch, and that's saying a lot....

It's a video talking about a sad event but I gotta say I am not feeling Lauren.  I had this opinion before I watched that video.  

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Anyway, I looked further. .... And it seems that the little curled-up creature that's a 6-week embryo is between about one-tenth of an inch in diameter and one-quarter inch in diameter.   

Very small and hard to notice, although, obviously, possible. 

She could have seen the sac as she passed it.  

Quote

yolk sac should be seen on transabdominal scanning when the mean sac diameter (MSD) is 20 mm or at a gestational age of 7 weeks and is usually seen endovaginally with an MSD of 8-10 mm or gestational age of 5.5 weeks.

At 7 weeks it's a bit over 3/4 of an inch so is easily visible.   She didn't say in the interview I watched how far along she was so if she made it that far, she would have been able to see products of conception as they're termed sometimes.   

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Sounds right to me. That "sweet pea" description was driving me crazy....Don't they mean just a damn green pea? A "sweetpea" is a flower that's way bigger than a green pea. What the HECK?

Anyway, I looked further. .... And it seems that the little curled-up creature that's a 6-week embryo is between about one-tenth of an inch in diameter and one-quarter inch in diameter.   

Very small and hard to notice, although, obviously, possible. 

85% chance they name the baby Sweet Pea Duggar.

[xtwheeler]

On 2/12/2019 at 9:45 AM, Oldernowiser said:

I feel sort of bad for her...she’s a teenager in an arranged marriage in a cult that bases a woman’s worth on how many babies she produces. Now this happens.

Statistically, someone in this vast clan was going to have fertility issues. I can only hope the cult is supportive.

Given this cult blames sexual abuse on a 5 year old's somehow "alluring" behavior, and a husband trying to bang women of disputed virtue on his wife, I feel certain that they blame miscarriage on the woman. She wasn't yet good enough for one of Jesus' army. 

[Westiepeach]

So I watched the video. She is hanging onto him for dear life. Every question that was asked, Lauren looked to “Si” before she answered. He never acknowledged her at all. Sheesh. They really don’t like each other. At all. 

[Christina87]

I'm a Christian and definitely believe it's possible that these super early term pregnancies go to heaven, as they are a life. I've always imagined them turning into children and playing with each other until they get the chance to know their parents, by that's just my wishful thinking. I don't presume to know, but the Duggars think they know everything, and could never be wrong. I also think they clearly don't differentiate between a six-week-old fetus and an 95-year-old man. They're both equal to them, while most of us would consider them very different things. The fetus was not old enough to feel pain, so while it is sad, it's not the same as delivering a preemie who may suffer, or losing your five-year-old in a painful accident. I have no qualms with them looking forward to meeting their child in heaven, but the way they turn everything so preachy turns me off. 

[cmr2014]

11 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Edit: Oh, and something that bothered me - why no funeral? No ammo can? No big production? It was a person, right?

I was thinking the same thing! I'm genuinely sorry for them -- for their loss and for many other reasons, and I don't want to sound glib about this, but yeah. This was their "baby" and they make such a huge deal about its personhood from the moment of conception -- then she just flushes it down the toilet? I thought the funeral for a fetus in an ammo box was sad and weird and wrong, but it was at least consistent with what they insist they believe. If they genuinely believe that this embryo was the exact same thing as a baby or a child, then I can't imagine simply flushing it away.

2 hours ago, xtwheeler said:

Given this cult blames sexual abuse on a 5 year old's somehow "alluring" behavior, and a husband trying to bang women of disputed virtue on his wife, I feel certain that they blame miscarriage on the woman. She wasn't yet good enough for one of Jesus' army. 

If the rumors that Josiah's sexuality are what got him shipped off to Alert are true, then I think this is a rare case where he will shoulder the burden of blame with her. I think that they will assume that Josiah is still having "impure" thoughts, or lacking a "commitment to godly marriage," or is too "feminine to father a child" -- and he bears responsibility for that. Lauren would still, of course, bear ultimate responsibility for not reforming Josiah with her feminine charms and bear the lion's share of the blame for the miscarriage.

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Westiepeach said:

So I watched the video. She is hanging onto him for dear life. Every question that was asked, Lauren looked to “Si” before she answered. He never acknowledged her at all. Sheesh. They really don’t like each other. At all. 

I had a checklist going about how 'Siah is veering into Joshley territory. Then I realized that the Smuggar actually seemed interested in Anna for a bit.

Move along folks, nothing to see here but two people who don't like each other procreating because Jesus.

[Sew Sumi]

At best, the relationship is one-sided. She's always clinging, and he never reciprocates.

[louannems]

6 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

It's a video talking about a sad event but I gotta say I am not feeling Lauren.  I had this opinion before I watched that video.  

I think Lauren married WAY too young, before her sense of identity was fully formed.  She said she waited soooooo long to get married, which was just rediculous.  And she has miscarried her only child, like she is now menopausal! She is playing house with Josiah, eager to be on TV and married to a "celebrity" , decorating her bland house in inoffenssive hotel tones, sitting around waiting  to breed.

[Annb67]

Here's what makes me angry. This happened in October. So now, in February and coincidentally right as they are promoting the new season, they feel led to talk about this and "encourage others". Please.

[Jeeves]

9 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

Here's what makes me angry. This happened in October. So now, in February and coincidentally right as they are promoting the new season, they feel led to talk about this and "encourage others". Please.

Their job is to be on reality TV, and they are being led to "encourage others" on a timeline that serves to promote the show. It's business. Dressed up in Jesus talk.

[jcbrown]

10 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

Here's what makes me angry. This happened in October. So now, in February and coincidentally right as they are promoting the new season, they feel led to talk about this and "encourage others". Please.

I wonder if any Duggarling has any idea what it's like to have an authentic emotion or reaction, given that they were raised to stomp them down within themselves and then trot out party line "feelings" on cue to benefit their parents' teevee career.

I agree--I am angry at them and sad for them simultaneously, that they are continuing to live the intensely damaged lives their parents decreed and they still think they are holier than the rest of us.

[BigBingerBro]

Not that I am defending anything Duggar, but the time element (Oct vs Feb) could be part of the reason Josiah seemed so uncaring and awkward in the interview.  Let's face it, these people can't act.

[Gweilo]

Lauren's probably pregnant again by now.