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ElectricBoogaloo

S03.E13: Will You Play With Me?

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9 minutes ago, coppersin said:

HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO WAIT A YEAR FOR MORE?! (side note: Hale Appleman is gonna rock monster!Eliot)

He will indeed...and ‘Janet’ has a fairy eye

I don’t know how I’m going to wait

Hoping that kiss from the Fairy Queen has some juice 

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Fuck you Fogg!

Fuck you Alice!

Fuck you Library!

Fuck you McAllisters!

And your heart was in the right place, but WTF Eliot?!?!?

And it just occurred to me why the gods fear "Love" that black hole of need monster. That other goddess was busy explaining to Julia that she needed to learn how to ignore the needs and pleas of others. I imagine that the gods can't ignore the needs of that monster. It will need and need until the gods exhaust their powers.

It's going to be tough waiting for next season.

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35 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

HOW THE HELL CAN WE POSSIBLY WAIT UNTIL 2019! I AM IN A GLASS CASE OF EMOTION!!!!!

For real 2019?! Why?! Between this and GOT it's torture!

And this is the second show I watch where all the characters got a memory wipe and reset. So stressful! 

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Honestly, I don't know what to make of this episode there was so much crossing and double crossing going on. I'm going to have to watch it again.

Edited by festivus

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How ironic that Alice, who wanted to give up her memories and live a new life, is the only one that still has her memories, while the rest of the gang, who wanted their old lives back, now have no memories and new lives without magic? Maybe this is how she becomes the Cassandra that Penny met in the afterlife? 

I feel like this could be a divisive episode, but I really loved it, even though I am frustrated beyond measure and pissed beyond belief at Dean Fog and the Library. Not thrilled with Alice either, but I do think she thought she was doing the right thing. She has been unstable all season, and her thinking that magic has done nothing but hurt her and her friends and family was short sighted and self centered, but I could understand why she did it. And now the Library has a monopoly on magic. Great. Maybe our Penny will have to save the day from the inside now. 

Oh my God, Elliot shot the freaking monster god! Because he loves Quentin that freaking much! Dear lord, the fanfic writes itself. Oh, wait, that shit happened in cannon! His face when Q was saying how he was going to sacrifice himself to get magic back and stay with the monster was so heartbreaking, I knew he would do something. 

The new monster is all kinds of creepy. Yeah Hale Appleman is going to kill it as demon possessed Elliot. I just hope they can get it out of him soon, and save everyone from their magic mind wipes. I was so excited for a second that Elliot had his memories, and then...*drops to the ground* "Nooooooooooooo"! I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU CREEPY THING AND NOW Q HAS NO IDEA HOW TO FIGHT HIM AND NO MAGIC AND AHHHHHH!

Yeah, a lot went down. I haven't even gotten to the fairy queen sacrificing herself and her and Fen having a heartfelt moment (who would have imagined?!?!) or that awesome shot of the castle and the lava with that creepy music, and that awesome cover of One Way or Another, or Julia becoming a goddess and giving it up to save everyone and mind wiped Margo being Janet and...

Need to watch again.

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I'm just glad we're (hopefully finally) done with the Fairy Queen, she was on my last nerve.

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Blackspire is in the Upside Down! Prometheus and Julia horcruxed themselves into the seven keys! The Fairy Queen was Aslan! Quentin volunteered to be tribute! The mindwiped Scooby gang needs to become a sense8  cluster (heh, okay, now I'm just making up things that I want to see)!

Man, I love when the show adds all of those pop culture references. It just makes the show THAT much more engaging and fun to watch.

I loved the looks on everyone's faces when Quentin said he had promised to trade places with Ora. While I understand the emotion behind Eliot's plan to save Quentin, he had to know that it wouldn't be as easy as shooting a god with a special god bullet.

I worked at the school library in college and I love that it's a resource and a place of knowledge, but DAMN, the library really thinks they're better than everyone else and that they alone should be allowed to decide who gets to use magic (as well as how much magic they get to use). How do they expect Brakebills to train the next generation of competent magicians who are able to harness and control their powers (and work at the library) if they don't allocate enough magic to let the blue fairy demonstrate a simple spell in class? Loved that Dean Fogg had the forms in triplicate before the librarian even asked for them.

I was so excited for the first two seconds when Eliot found Quentin. Then I realized it was the monster inside Eliot. So where is Eliot's consciousness now that the monster is in his body? Is he trapped inside with him, forced to watch what the monster is doing? Or is he inside but unconscious until the monster leaves his body? And what happened to Ora's body after the monster jumped from her to Eliot?

It seems really dangerous to have all of these magicians who don't know they're magicians wandering around the world. Remember Quentin said he accidentally did magic before Brakebills? What if that happens to any of them and they hurt someone? On the other hand, at least Quentin/Brian seemed happy (or not miserable and depressed). Poor Margo/Janet (!) seemed pretty miserable though. Josh and Julia seemed fine, but poor Kady. I was actually relieved when all she did was hand over drugs. When the tinted window rolled down, I was afraid she was going to be a prostitute.

A few episodes ago, we saw Not Alice as the scribe in the library saying that she wasn't Alice. Does that mean eventually she gets her wish to have her memory erased? At least what the librarian said this week about Alice breaking her deal with the library explained why Not Alice became the scribe.

ETA: In case you want to brush up on your Greek mythology:

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Prometheus was one of the Titans, son of Iapetus (also a Titan) and Clymene, an Oceanid. His brothers were Epimetheus, Atlas and Menoetius. The name derives from the Greek word meaning 'forethought'.

During the Titanomachy, the war between the Titans and the Olympian gods, Prometheus sided with Zeus, helping to overthrow the old gods. Siding with the winning side, Prometheus avoided being punished with the rest of the Titans and was therefore not sent to Tartarus, the Underworld.

In all accounts, Prometheus was presented to be the protector and benefactor of mankind. In an event called Trick at Mecone, he tricked Zeus by asking him to choose between two offerings; beef hidden inside an ox's stomach (something pleasing hidden inside a repelling exterior) or bones wrapped in glistening fat (something inedible hidden inside a pleasing exterior). Zeus chose the latter and hence, a precedent was created in what humans could sacrifice from that moment; so, they kept the meat for themselves and sacrificed bones to the gods.

As a result of the trick at Mecone, Zeus was infuriated and decided to hide fire from mortals as punishment. Prometheus, in an effort to help humanity again, managed to steal fire back and give it to humans. More enraged, the father of gods asked Hephaestus to create Pandora, the first woman, who according to Hesiod, would bring troubles to mankind. He also punished Prometheus by having him chained to a rock, where an eagle ate his liver during the day, and the liver was regenerated during the night due to Prometheus' immortality. He was later saved by the demigod Hercules.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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I did not see that ending coming.  I thought Alice took the mind wipe potion? Did they counter-act it?  Why did Dean Fogg make a deal with the library?

 

So, I'm guessing Penny40 willl bust Alice out of jail. 

 

I have to wait a year to find out?

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1 hour ago, ElleMo said:

Why did Dean Fogg make a deal with the library?

Dean Fogg is all about Brakebills so my guess is that he made a deal with the library to ensure that the school would receive magic so that he could ensure that Brakebills could continue to exist and educate more magicians.

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6 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Dean Fogg is all about Brakebills so my guess is that he made a deal with the library to ensure that the school would receive magic so that he could ensure that Brakebills could continue to exist and educate more magicians.

Which if they waited an extra minute before interfering, Dean Fogg could have had all the magic he wanted for Brakebills without going through the Library.

I am really curious as to what the consequences for a non fairy attacking a fairy considering that a Fairy Queen died for it. It could give Fairies an extreme advantage if non fairies can't hurt them even in self defense. 

Oh Elliot, the monster at the end of the world isn't a God, so using a God killing bullet to attack it was doomed to failure. Silly Rabbit. You could have tried finding a way to visit/talk to Quentin while he was on guard duty, for instance that magic to chat to someone in their dreams Quentins used to talk to Ora.

I wonder if Zelda is happy with control over magic considering the heavy price she paid to obtain it. 

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The last two seasons I actually waited to watch the season finale until the next season was out. Because the penultimate episode seems to end in a more settled moment before the crazy of the finale.  I was thinking of watching the finale this time because the last episode really wasn't all that settled.  But reading everyone's reactions I'm thinking I may hold off anyway.  Sounds like it might be worse to wait after the finale for the next season.

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3 hours ago, wayne67 said:

Which if they waited an extra minute before interfering, Dean Fogg could have had all the magic he wanted for Brakebills without going through the Library.

I am really curious as to what the consequences for a non fairy attacking a fairy considering that a Fairy Queen died for it. It could give Fairies an extreme advantage if non fairies can't hurt them even in self defense. 

That's exactly why I was wondering.  Magic would have been back for everyone so I don't get why Fogg did what he did.  It seemed to come from nowhere.

That fairy deal sounds pretty powerful.  A bit unfair that two people can make a deal that affects all of human kind.

Edited by ElleMo
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It’s one thing for the Fairy Queen or Margo to make a deal on behalf of the people who they rule, but I thought the deal that McAllister and the FQ struck seemed destined to punish the non-fairies. Don’t get me wrong - McAllister is, as the FQ so accurately described, a mediocre, power-hungry girl. But the deal said if ANY creature harmed any fairy. McAllister can’t speak for all humans, let alone all living creatures. There’s no way to guarantee that no one else in all the universe will try to hurt a fairy. What if some random creature in Fillory tosses a book out of a window and a fairy gets clonked on the head? That’s not McAllister’s fault. And even if there is explicitly violent intent against a fairy, if it isn’t done by McAllister or her crony (or with their knowledge/consent), it seems unfair to punish them or anyone but the perpetrator. I’m not on McAllister’s side (especially because I don’t think she has any intention of keeping this bargain anyway) but this seems like an impossible bargain.

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That was something! I can't believe I was so upset over the Fairy Queen's death. I'd started rooting for her once you found what Irene and her family was doing to the fairies. I hope as soon as Margo/Janet gets her memory back she messes up Irene big time. Hopefully that fairy eye will kick in soon.

I'm glad Julia's time as a god is over. It was the only ending I could see working for her if she was going to stay on the show. And it was a way for her to use and get rid of a power that she never really liked because of it's source.

Dean Fogg you are now on my list. Working with the Library and Irene? Stealing the magic and getting yourself screwed in the process? I wish Julia had never fixed his eyes. Alice is also on my list but at least she remembers and is willing to fix what happened.

So we're just done with Penny40? I don't like that. I miss him. Penny23 isn't the same.

Eliot trying to kill the monster for Quentin was so stupid but also sweet. I hope being possesed by the monster doesn't mean he's now dead.

I can't wait for the next season!

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I haven't had a chance to re-watch yet but I do feel confident in saying fuck the library right up in the hole. I especially need that smarmy traveler librarian to get what's coming to him.

I was also more sorry about the Fairy Queen's death that I thought I'd be. I was looking forward to her being on High King Margo's council.

Edited by festivus
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14 hours ago, chrisvee said:

OMG

 

14 hours ago, coppersin said:

HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO WAIT A YEAR FOR MORE?! (side note: Hale Appleman is gonna rock monster!Eliot)

 

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

HOW THE HELL CAN WE POSSIBLY WAIT UNTIL 2019! I AM IN A GLASS CASE OF EMOTION!!!!!

I'm not sure I can add anything even remotely more coherent than that. I wanted to throw my cat at my computer at the end (because he happened to be what I was holding at the time).

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I like that Margo is Janet again.

Other than that, fuck this fucking show. I HATE HATE HATE cliffhangers! I'm going to watch next season, you don't have to always have to end the season with deathsorrowgriefmurderlosscrying. In fact, I want to post this on every single show ever: NO MORE CLIFFHANGER SEASON FINALES. 

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10 hours ago, GaT said:

I'm just glad we're (hopefully finally) done with the Fairy Queen, she was on my last nerve.

Since she got chopped up into little, bitty bits, I think that's a fair assumption at this point.

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Man, I'm really torn about this episode. I understand that they need to set something up for next season and they can't just say "And they all lived happily ever after." But damn. We watched these characters go to hell and back (literally) trying to get magic back and then they all get screwed over. It's really depressing and frustrating. Sure, I see the potential for a really great Season 4 ahead, but I really needed for them to get just a little bit of a win here. 

Quote

It seems really dangerous to have all of these magicians who don't know they're magicians wandering around the world. Remember Quentin said he accidentally did magic before Brakebills? What if that happens to any of them and they hurt someone? 

Can they though? The library has all the magic and only doles it out to the people they want. Schools like Brakebills have to apply and only get rations. So it doesn't seem like any magicians out there can do any magic without going to the library and asking for an allotment of magic.

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1 hour ago, Philbert said:

Since she got chopped up into little, bitty bits, I think that's a fair assumption at this point.

Not on this show.

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 Well,  that was an incredibly frustrating hour to get through.   I really wish Quinton would have just let Alice stay dead.  Unlike Julia who I haven't always liked,  but usually understood,  I just can't with her,  like, every season,  hell, every episode she does something worse. 

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Man, everyone was lining up to sacrifice themselves in this episode!

  • Quentin was going to sacrifice himself in order to free Ora in exchange for getting into the castle to get magic back for the world
  • the Fairy Queen sacrificed herself to strike a deal that will protect all fairies from harm
  • Julia sacrificed her goddess power to re-horcrux the keys and restore magic to the world
  • Alice was going to sacrifice her memories and her entire existence up to this point in order to “save the world” aka ensure that magic didn’t come back 
  • Eliot sacrificed the only god killing bullet known to exist so he could save Quentin from becoming the guardian of the castle and the monster
  • Dean Fogg sacrificed his autonomy in order to guarantee that Brakebills would reopen and continue to train magicians

I’m not saying that all of these sacrifices were smart but everyone made these sacrifices believing that they were doing the right thing for others. 

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I honestly don't know how helping the library steal all the magic helps Dean Fogg. He has to rely on them to supply his school with magical rations just to teach his magicians who then, I assume, will have to spend the rest of their lives begging for scraps from the library just to be able to do magic. What's the point? I could see it if Fogg blamed the students for all his problems thus far but that hasn't really been the case. And what makes the library the most trustworthy guardians of magic anyway? 

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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I honestly don't know how helping the library steal all the magic helps Dean Fogg. He has to rely on them to supply his school with magical rations just to teach his magicians who then, I assume, will have to spend the rest of their lives begging for scraps from the library just to be able to do magic. What's the point? I could see it if Fogg blamed the students for all his problems thus far but that hasn't really been the case. And what makes the library the most trustworthy guardians of magic anyway? 

They're NOT the most trustworthy guardians and that's why I'm looking forward to seeing them go down next season. Loose threads that seem poised to aid our heroes in THAT quest are...

A) Penny40 is not actually dead, nor has he been mind-wiped and all it would take is him reading the right book (any of the other quester's books) and enough magic to put him into Penny23's body (since his memory's been wiped it removes a lot of the ethical issues of doing so... at least long enough to find a better solution). His travelling isn't dependent on Library magic either.

B) Margo/Janet's fairy eye doesn't need Library doled out magic to function and sooner or later she'll see something with it.

C) Fenn may not be a magician, but she's proven plucky and clever and the Fairy Queen whispered something to her before she went to her death that probably relates to how the deal she made is absolutely going to screw over the McAlisters/Library. She knows how to get to Earth and her sympathy for the Fairy Queen is probably going to mean she'll be able to call upon the fairies to aid her at some point.

D) Alice is in need of a redemption arc and has been left in a position where just about the only way to save the rest our heroes is to rise to the occasion.

E) There's a Monster that even the gods are terrified that got loose because of the library's fuck up and its wearing Eliot (and clearly has pre-wipe Eliot's memories) and who knows what sort of powers and is hanging out with Quentin. Provided he gets his memories back (the Monster seems to want him to have his memories and who knows what it can do) and can get the Monster wrangled (the Guardian mentioned that she was able to direct it a bit by convincing it to play games with certain rules) it could do all manner of unspeakable things to the Library.

* * * *

In other words, a whole bunch of ways to get nearly everyone back into the mix and make the Library pay come next season.

The hardest part is the waiting.

Edited by Chris24601
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7 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

It’s one thing for the Fairy Queen or Margo to make a deal on behalf of the people who they rule, but I thought the deal that McAllister and the FQ struck seemed destined to punish the non-fairies. Don’t get me wrong - McAllister is, as the FQ so accurately described, a mediocre, power-hungry girl. But the deal said if ANY creature harmed any fairy. McAllister can’t speak for all humans, let alone all living creatures. There’s no way to guarantee that no one else in all the universe will try to hurt a fairy. What if some random creature in Fillory tosses a book out of a window and a fairy gets clonked on the head? That’s not McAllister’s fault. And even if there is explicitly violent intent against a fairy, if it isn’t done by McAllister or her crony (or with their knowledge/consent), it seems unfair to punish them or anyone but the perpetrator. I’m not on McAllister’s side (especially because I don’t think she has any intention of keeping this bargain anyway) but this seems like an impossible bargain.

Or what if a Fairy attacks someone who is only hurts the fairy in self defense.   Basically if Fairies decided to attack others they wouldn’t be able to defend themselves.  

Evil Elliot is going to be fascinating to watch.  I appreciate Elliots love for Q but his actions have lead to himself and others being seriously screwed.

I really don’t get why Fogg didn’t just let them revive magic and leave the library out of it.   In general I love books and libraries but when I think of The Magicians library I turn into Leslie Knope from Parks and Rec 8854120F-F08F-4694-AD66-0E69B753E6A9.gif.9114f4d6e867dec0b59d6943421be9fb.gif

Edited by Luckylyn
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I forgot about Margo's magic fairy eyeball!!!  Thanks Chris24601!

Really a whole year of waiting is cruel. 

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Heh @Luckylyn I was just thinking that. Normally I too love libraries, but Leslie was sure about this one! I bet when we finally meet the head Librarian above all the librarians and its...Tammy Two! 

I wonder if the monster possessed Elliot because he was the one who shot his last vessel? 

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22 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Because he loves Quentin that freaking much! Dear lord, the fanfic writes itself. Oh, wait, that shit happened in cannon! His face when Q was saying how he was going to sacrifice himself to get magic back and stay with the monster was so heartbreaking, I knew he would do something. 

I KNOWWWWWWWWWWW. Oh my heart.

23 hours ago, coppersin said:

HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO WAIT A YEAR FOR MORE?! (side note: Hale Appleman is gonna rock monster!Eliot)

He totally is but I'm gonna be crying the whole time. 

23 hours ago, chrisvee said:

He will indeed...and ‘Janet’ has a fairy eye

I don’t know how I’m going to wait

Hoping that kiss from the Fairy Queen has some juice 

I forgot the fairy eye!

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I’m not saying that all of these sacrifices were smart but everyone made these sacrifices believing that they were doing the right thing for others. 

Those have to be rewarded - by someone. I thought Iris was full of shit. I think she was there just to thwart the others. I wonder if she's part of a faction of gods that didn't want magic restored because without it, the gods were the only ones with juice.

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9 hours ago, GaT said:

Not on this show.

A fair point but I still think it's a safe bet. Now, if it were "Gotham" we know she'd be back in 2 episodes...because that's how that show rolls :)

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16 hours ago, ElleMo said:

That fairy deal sounds pretty powerful.  A bit unfair that two people can make a deal that affects all of human kind.

It'd make more sense if it was worded "no magician can harm a fairy" since that would at least be more specific and since that woman was on the Magic council, she'd sort of have the authority to make that kind of deal in the first place. Perhaps her position as the Library's cat paw allowed her more reign over non fairies. I don't know, I should stop thinking about this so much.

All I know is that it's going to be a long wait until the next season of Magicians. 

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22 hours ago, treasaigh said:

The last two seasons I actually waited to watch the season finale until the next season was out. Because the penultimate episode seems to end in a more settled moment before the crazy of the finale.  I was thinking of watching the finale this time because the last episode really wasn't all that settled.  But reading everyone's reactions I'm thinking I may hold off anyway.  Sounds like it might be worse to wait after the finale for the next season.

You know, this season has been so well paced that I was looking forward to this. But this was like watching... all of season 2. About halfway through I realised it was all set up. So the "climax" fell completely flat because it was just a plot point of set up for season 4. 

Once the fairy Queen sacrificed herself, I knew that the library was getting magic. But at least fairies would be safe? I don't know, it seems like the Queen let her realm collapse for no reason if she's just going to hand magic to the Faerie slavers. It's consistent with the Queen's MO but it's still frustrating. 

15 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Man, everyone was lining up to sacrifice themselves in this episode!

  • Quentin was going to sacrifice himself in order to free Ora in exchange for getting into the castle to get magic back for the world
  • the Fairy Queen sacrificed herself to strike a deal that will protect all fairies from harm
  • Julia sacrificed her goddess power to re-horcrux the keys and restore magic to the world
  • Alice was going to sacrifice her memories and her entire existence up to this point in order to “save the world” aka ensure that magic didn’t come back 
  • Eliot sacrificed the only god killing bullet known to exist so he could save Quentin from becoming the guardian of the castle and the monster
  • Dean Fogg sacrificed his autonomy in order to guarantee that Brakebills would reopen and continue to train magicians

I’m not saying that all of these sacrifices were smart but everyone made these sacrifices believing that they were doing the right thing for others. 

When the Fairy Queen sacrificed herself, I suddenly realised that every sacrifice on this show has been a bad idea. Every time somebody wants to sacrifice themselves for "the greater good" they get punished for it. But at the same time, I've been upset all season that Julia was rewarded for victimhood while Alice was punished for sacrifice. But now it seems that Julia's "reward" was simply a way for her to do penance. And yes that fits with my personal concept of justice, but I found it really powerful that Julia was handed ultimate powers only to realise it was for her to give away to those she betrayed. 

Ultimately, my biggest problem with this is that it was a bit of a redux of Season 1. And while I thought S1 finale was brilliant, it's a little less brilliant a second time around. 

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1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

But at the same time, I've been upset all season that Julia was rewarded for victimhood while Alice was punished for sacrifice

Julia has sacrificed herself several times during the first 2 seasons.

Could you give expemples of when you see Alice being punished?

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Irene owns Brakebills, right? Our baes got to stay in the house because its ownership was in question (I think because it kept moving?) and then Julia reinstated the wards so Irene couldn't find Brakebills, but it's still hers? So I'm hoping that Fogg realized stopping her and the library wasn't possible at the time and is either hoping to mitigate her damage to the school or is planning to take them down from the inside.

First two finales were titled Have You Brought Me Little Cakes and We Have Brought You Little Cakes, so if we keep the ask/answer theme, next year's finale will be We Will Play With You. I'm also choosing to take this as a guarantee that we'll get six seasons so that the fifth and sixth finales have matching titles as well. ;)

 

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 2:34 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 So where is Eliot's consciousness now that the monster is in his body? Is he trapped inside with him, forced to watch what the monster is doing? Or is he inside but unconscious until the monster leaves his body?

I really want to believe it's the latter, for Eliot's sake as well as any others that will inevitably get possessed to keep us wondering. But I'm guessing Eliot now has a new reason to drink. Though amnesia would give us the chance for another awesome recap like Ember's or Josh's... "So this is what happened this season, er. while that thing was playing hopscotch with your bodies."

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I too was wondering why Dean Fogg would make that deal until I was reminded that Irene owns Brakebills now.  But still why would Irene want to deal with the library?  Why does she care if others have magic unless she’s getting something more from the library .  

Stupid Alice, and very selfish too.  If the others were fine not having magic, they wouldn’t have done the quest.  And now she made things even worse. 

I thought Margo’s fairy eye would come into play when she saw Josh.  I wonder how it will manifest.

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8 hours ago, JonasArm said:

Julia has sacrificed herself several times during the first 2 seasons.

Could you give expemples of when you see Alice being punished?

Alice's sacrifice at the end of season 1 utterly destroyed her. And she only did that because Julia fucked them all over in her quest for power. 

Everything Julia did in the first 2 seasons was self-serving right up until she refused to use the god-killing bullet, which was the first time she paused. Season 3 has been her on a journey to being able to put the greater good first. For someone to go from demanding power to being able to sacrifice that power so others can have it, is amazing character development. I really like what they've done with her overall this season, which is a far cry from the beginning of it where I was annoyed that she was handed all this power after her petulant childishness in the first two seasons.

In fact, in retrospect, while I found this episode anticlimactic and a bit underwhelming, it was in fact the culmination of three seasons of character development rather than three seasons of plot. You could argue that everything would have worked out fine in the end if Quentin hadn't been willing to sacrifice himself. That was the catalyst that caused Alice and Elliot to basically lose their shit. So Quentin once again made the mistake of thinking he was the hero of the story, the one who dies nobly at the end after his hero's journey and once again he was wrong. This was a quest of 8 people, not a quest of 1 and he should have remembered that.

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1 hour ago, AudienceofOne said:

Alice's sacrifice at the end of season 1 utterly destroyed her. And she only did that because Julia fucked them all over in her quest for power. 

Everything Julia did in the first 2 seasons was self-serving right up until she refused to use the god-killing bullet, which was the first time she paused. Season 3 has been her on a journey to being able to put the greater good first. For someone to go from demanding power to being able to sacrifice that power so others can have it, is amazing character development. I really like what they've done with her overall this season, which is a far cry from the beginning of it where I was annoyed that she was handed all this power after her petulant childishness in the first two seasons.

I'll take more time to answer later if I can but I find that to be a very biased POV against Julia.

For correction, Alice become a niffin in season 2 episode 3.

As for Julia, when Reynard appeared he was about to rape Katy and Julia coul have fled but she put herself in his way to give Katy a chance to run... A sacrifice that destroyed her and explains her betrayal at the end of season 1. It was not for power but for revenge.

Edited by JonasArm
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9 hours ago, coppersin said:

I'm also choosing to take this as a guarantee that we'll get six seasons so that the fifth and sixth finales have matching titles as well. ;)

#sixseasonsandamovie y'all! 

Julia, in the first season, while not a bad person, started out as rather self serving. I think she was used to being the one who had it together, while Q was the messed up one, and when he got into Breakbills and she didn't (and as it turns out, that had less to do with her talent and more to do with other stuff anyway) she got upset, and that gave her sense of entitlement and self contentedness that made her hard to like. I could sympathize with her, especially after everything that happened with Reynard, but I do think she could be rather selfish. Her journey throughout the show was seeing how she could use power to help people, and come to fruition this season, where she became a god and gave up significant power to help her friends. 

Of course, pretty much all of the main character started off as selfish, to varying extends. Alice broke rules and endangered people because she wanted to resurrect her brother and thought she was smart enough to handle it on her own, Q thought he was the hero of his own fanboy dream, Margo and Elliot were cheerfully bitchy hedonists, Penny was driven by belligerence, Josh by cowardice and his weed supply, and Kady was just bitter. All of their arcs have been, and I think will continue to be, about using power for selfless reasons, but maybe in ways they dont expect. As others have said, the gang sacrificing themselves seem to create more problems then they solve, but when they actually work together and try to work at things, things go better. Being a martyr can be noble, but sometimes its the biggest sacrifice to stick around and work at stuff.  I think that might end up being the big arc of the show. Magic is great, but you have to use it meaningfully to really use it to its great potential. 

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41 minutes ago, JonasArm said:

I'll take more time to answer later if I can but I find that to be a very biased POV against Julia.

Sure. It's a TV Show. Mileage varies.

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2 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

In fact, in retrospect, while I found this episode anticlimactic and a bit underwhelming, it was in fact the culmination of three seasons of character development rather than three seasons of plot. You could argue that everything would have worked out fine in the end if Quentin hadn't been willing to sacrifice himself. That was the catalyst that caused Alice and Elliot to basically lose their shit. So Quentin once again made the mistake of thinking he was the hero of the story, the one who dies nobly at the end after his hero's journey and once again he was wrong. This was a quest of 8 people, not a quest of 1 and he should have remembered that.

That's a good point about Quentin once again thinking he was the hero of the story. I do think he thought he was doing the right thing with his sacrifice as he felt that everyone had sacrificed something at some point. His mistake was in telling them what he was doing. I could see that he might not have thought it would affect Alice like it did but he should have known not to tell Eliot. He knows that Eliot loves him and would not just accept it. 

 

I understand that Julia was hard to sympathize with but I never could understand the disproportionate amount of hate she got compared to the other characters. They've all done some really stupid shit. The show is basically about these assholes learning and growing and trying to become better people. Alice irritated me way more in the first season than Julia did but I never hated her. 

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40 minutes ago, festivus said:

I understand that Julia was hard to sympathize with but I never could understand the disproportionate amount of hate she got compared to the other characters. 

No matter how badly the other characters behaved, I don't remember any of them trying to kill their best friend and then writing them an "apology" letter about how that friend should apologise to them. That was pretty well when I decided Julia was the absolute fucking worst. I remember when she lost her shade and was actually better behaved. I mean, she still did horrible things but she didn't expect people to apologise to her afterward. 

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