S07.E07: Joe and Kendra Say I Do

[SunnyBeBe]

I laughed a little when Ben expressed how HARD married life is.  i mean, he said it was the hardest thing in your life! lol  Well, I suppose he's never graduated from graduate school, taken the Bar exam, supported himself and child as a single parent, but, I get his point.  To him, it's hard.  lol 

Did you catch what John David said about how the couple should just spend a year alone....no kids for a whole year! That was pretty shocking....I mean coming from a Duggar who lives in the main house. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[humbleopinion]

Amazed that an overly emotional Joy brought up in her speech that quiet Joe was so attuned to her emotional needs.

Was this before and after the Joshly abuse?

Guess the I love yous from her distracted parents were saved for the TLC cameras....

[bigskygirl]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I laughed a little when Ben expressed how HARD married life is.  i mean, he said it was the hardest thing in your life! lol  Well, I suppose he's never graduated from graduate school, taken the Bar exam, supported himself and child as a single parent, but, I get his point.  To him, it's hard.  lol 

Did you catch what John David said about how the couple should just spend a year alone....no kids for a whole year! That was pretty shocking....I mean coming from a Duggar who lives in the main house. 

Someone needs to work with JD because he is not getting with the program. Practice makes progress, and progress makes babies. He probably has seen what is going on with Josh and Derelict and does not want to end up in the same boat.

[SunnyBeBe]

Did anyone watch this carefully or have a DVR?  I didn't see Josh or Derik at the ceremony.  But, I wasn't paying super close attention either. 

Who were the bridal attendants?

[skippy]

12 hours ago, SuzyLee said:

How glorious that all Kendra’s father could come up with to sum up her attributes were her smiles, cheerfulness, and abilities to cook and take care of children.  I think I’m more sad about that than the fact that she’s getting married at “19 and 28 days.”

*sigh*

In their world those qualities add up to perfection.  Independence, intelligence, creativity, ambition...those attributes are not celebrated in their world.

[BitterApple]

36 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

Did you catch what John David said about how the couple should just spend a year alone....no kids for a whole year! That was pretty shocking....I mean coming from a Duggar who lives in the main house. 

The more I see of JD, the more I'm starting to think he's the Boob to Jana's Michelle. Not in the sense that he does a lot of hands-on childcare, but more along the lines of doing "husband" jobs and the physical work of maintaining a house. Neither twin seems too enthused about the prospect of marriage and children, and I wonder if that's because they've already been in those roles for years. 

[skippy]

I love that Joe wrote letters to all his siblings.  I think when Joy thanked him for his support, it may be about his support during/following Josh's abuse of the girls.  I think Joe and Kendra are uncomplicated, sweet, and completely genuine.  I hope they are truly happy.

[nittanyvolleyball]

I appreciate Jessa putting her hair up, but please Jana put your hair up when making any sort of food

[SunnyBeBe]

3 minutes ago, skippy said:

I love that Joe wrote letters to all his siblings.  I think when Joy thanked him for his support, it may be about his support during/following Josh's abuse of the girls.  I think Joe and Kendra are uncomplicated, sweet, and completely genuine.  I hope they are truly happy.

Yeah, but, I think they have been a bubble for years and will likely stay in the bubble. Living so close to the main house.....I can't see them venturing too far from the Duggar lifestyle, thought control, practices, etc.  

[BitterApple]

4 minutes ago, skippy said:

I love that Joe wrote letters to all his siblings.  I think when Joy thanked him for his support, it may be about his support during/following Josh's abuse of the girls.  I think Joe and Kendra are uncomplicated, sweet, and completely genuine.  I hope they are truly happy.

Kendra's laugh grates my nerves, but overall she's a very pleasant, warm person. For his part, Joe seems genuine in his care and affection for her. I think they'e going to be one of the few Duggar couples who will be happy in the long run.

[Barb23]

41 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I laughed a little when Ben expressed how HARD married life is.  i mean, he said it was the hardest thing in your life! lol  Well, I suppose he's never graduated from graduate school, taken the Bar exam, supported himself and child as a single parent, but, I get his point.  To him, it's hard.  lol 

Did you catch what John David said about how the couple should just spend a year alone....no kids for a whole year! That was pretty shocking....I mean coming from a Duggar who lives in the main house. 

I thought his rendition of married life sure had a negative tone considering they haven't been married that long.  It is true when he said you need to realize your spouse is imperfect but that wasn't the line I was expecting.  Doesn't everything in this family (cult)  have to be perfect & wonderful including marriage? 

32 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Did anyone watch this carefully or have a DVR?  I didn't see Josh or Derik at the ceremony.  But, I wasn't paying super close attention either. 

Who were the bridal attendants?

I recorded it & will try to watch again.  I didn't see Josh or Derick either but I wasn't looking that close  except  when they were taking the group family picture & still didn't notice them. I guess Derick was on kid duty with Cathy probably helping, same with Josh & Anna.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, Ben's first words responding to question about advice on marriage was how IMPERFECT you find your spouse!  He included himself too, but, I think it was clear that he was  in way over his head and marriage was really something that he wasn't ready for. Just my impression.  Jessa agreed, but, I don't think she had too many high expectations like Ben did. lol 

I hope they got that electrical connection approved by a certified electrician.  Are they qualified to do that?  I'd be hesitant.  

I did think that Shell looked pretty nice at the wedding.  Her hairstyle was an improvement and she seemed more pulled together.  The dress was too sparkly, imo, but, maybe, Kendra wanted that. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[shoovenbooty]

If nothing else, this episode made me want to make some decent homemade meatballs for dinner tonight.

[bigskygirl]

Just now, shoovenbooty said:

If nothing else, this episode made me want to make some decent homemade meatballs for dinner tonight.

Or run to your healthcare provider and ask for heavy duty birth control, and say thank you to Jesus over and over again because you are not a Duggar or Duggar in-law.

[Jeanne222]

41 minutes ago, skippy said:

I love that Joe wrote letters to all his siblings.  I think when Joy thanked him for his support, it may be about his support during/following Josh's abuse of the girls.  I think Joe and Kendra are uncomplicated, sweet, and completely genuine.  I hope they are truly happy.

I thought the same thing about Joe and Joy.  She was at an age where her sisters took the lead.  Jill and Jessa.  I think Joy needed more than the bible to overcome what Josh did to them and all the publicity and speculation.  I always felt sorry for her.

I too wondered if Josh and Derrick were at the wedding.  They surely are sitting on Josh and ignoring Derrick.  I saw three SIL's sitting in row two but not the other ones.  Must make for 'fun' gatherings.    Jessa, Jinger and Joys husband were front and center SIL's.  Hummm.  Could there be trouble in paradise???

35 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Kendra's laugh grates my nerves, but overall she's a very pleasant, warm person. For his part, Joe seems genuine in his care and affection for her. I think they'e going to be one of the few Duggar couples who will be happy in the long run.

I like Kendra.  She is like a ray of sunshine and I notice how Joe just lights up when he is with her.  Her mother is gorgeous and her father very handsome.  I can't figure out how many siblings Kendra has?  I know the one sister, her maid of honor and i think one little flower girl who showed Kendra her outfit when she was dressed for the wedding.  Are there more?

[Mollie]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I laughed a little when Ben expressed how HARD married life is.  i mean, he said it was the hardest thing in your life! lol  Well, I suppose he's never graduated from graduate school, taken the Bar exam, supported himself and child as a single parent, but, I get his point.  To him, it's hard.  lol 

 

Poor Ben.  You could feel his pain: "Marriage is not easy."  What he meant was that marriage to Jessa is not easy.  He really deserved someone less selfish.  And, someone who could at least keep a very small house clean, learn to cook a little, read a book occasionally and have interests beyond curling her hair extensions. There was no talk of love between the two or for the kids in that talking-heads segment. I bet he caught hell from her after that day of filming. 

[bigskygirl]

5 minutes ago, Mollie said:

Poor Ben.  You could feel his pain: "Marriage is not easy."  What he meant was that marriage to Jessa is not easy.  He really deserved someone less selfish.  And, someone who could at least keep a very small house clean, learn to cook a little, read a book occasionally and have interests beyond curling her hair extensions. There was no talk of love between the two or for the kids in that talking-heads segment. I bet he caught hell from her after that day of filming. 

You get what you bargain or pay for.

[SunnyBeBe]

I don't know if Jessa lacks housekeeping skills, but, if she does, I don't fault her. She's likely tired of keeping house. Likely one of her jurisdictions growing up.  Plus, how motivated can you be when the highlight of the week is shopping with a sibling for used clothes.  Just kidding.  I think they buy new clothes now. lol Still, I can't imagine the life they live.  Granted, they may not know any different, so it's a matter of ignorance is bliss, but, I don't think so. 

[Mollie]

Who is the blonde talking to Miss Cindy and standing next to Jill as a bridesmaid?

 

[PradaKitty]

It might have been a good idea for the bridesmaids dresses all be the same length. (looks like they were all the same length when purchased, but should have been adjusted for the height of each bridesmaid).

Michelle looked very nice. Obviously, someone did her hair.  I would have liked to see her in a cocktail length dress, but after 19 kids, he legs probably don’t look like that hot...

[humbleopinion]

If the bridesmaids are going to wear fugly styles of sandals...then leveling the hems of their dresses is just too much to hope for...

[Churchhoney]

4 hours ago, flyingdi said:

I don't know if it's right to dislike Joe for this.  He could have done whatever he did to protect Joy from bringing the wrath of Jim Bob and Michelle down on herself.  Going by Jinger and Josiah as examples, they don't react well to perceived differences.  Joe could have been doing the best he could in his power to protect Joy.

I agree. I see it both ways all the time. I realize that the kids seem to be trapped. And I feel a lot of sympathy for them.

At the same time it infuriates me that they grow to adulthood being so willing to be total shills for their parents and that it never ever seems to occur to any of them that each person is an individual who has a right to make decisions for himself or herself. That's what "protecting" Joy here amounted to. Pushing her to BELIEVE something that she was struggling with. And to believe it why? Because two stupid, venal mean unthinking assholes believe it. Belief!

Not "Hey, Joy, it's a bad idea to go out and have random unprotected sex with local high school boys! That's dangerous!" But "Hey, Joy, you better BELIEVE just exactly to the letter what Mama and Daddy believe" because...

Because what??? ... Because they'll beat or imprison you or deprive you of food or throw you out on the street or send you to "Journey of the Heart" or "Alert" for more intensive brainwashing for not BELIEVING it? Well, yeah, then he was "protecting' her from something.

But guess what? Most people around here absolutely refuse to believe that the Jim Bob and Michelle actually tangibly abuse their children over stuff like this. (And I don't actually believe that they do much if any of that either, except for the "send to Gotahrdland" part. But if I had a dollar for every time I've read the bullshit comment "Jim Bob loves eez kidz!!!!?" I'd have quite a few dollars. They may not beat these grown up kids but they don't love them either. They don't know what "love" is. They know a lot about the meaning of possessing and controlling someone, though.)

So if you guys are right, then what the hell was he "protecting her" from? Getting into arguments with her parents over their theological beliefs? Beliefs that most people in the world, not just around here, fully recognize as cruel, manipulative antediluvian, individual-killing bullshit. Why the hell shouldn't she get into strident arguments with those two fools over those beliefs? It's about time somebody did. 

So if he was "protecting her" from DISAGREEING ABOUT THEOLOGY with her parents, then, yeah, I feel absolutely comfortable continuing to blast the little idiot. (Not that he didn't MEAN well, probably. Nevertheless, he's still an ass if that's what he was "protecting her" from. And a coward. And someone who respects only power and not the human soul. Somebody who was already near adulthood and was still a brainwashed baby, and brainwashed by two selfish infantile venal idiots.)) 

This is what slavery is made of. People have long thought that it's also a kindness to tell slaves and other downtrodden people to "Just go along with it so you don't get in MORE trouble!"

And now there's a whole lot of general weeping and wailing around here about "poor Joy" "poor Joyless" and how she's had the spunk completely squashed out of her, And because she's such a young unprepared mother who's possibly married to a controlling dumbass and has already risked massive childbirth complications. Etc. Etc.

Well, guess what? By discouraging his sister from DISAGREEING with their parents, he was a major participant in bringing about that outcome, that most people here claim to loathe. 

So what exactly did he ultimately protect her from? Because from where I sit her current life looks pretty much like it's going to shit. 

And since NOBODY seems ever to speak up against JB and M, they're just being increasingly empowered to go on doing what they're doing. And what they do? It's wrong and it's evil. They've raised a bunch of supposed adults now. Time for some of those adults to engage them on the subject of whether their "theology" is right or whether it's very very very very wrong. 

ETA: It's also my opinion that the primary reason no Duggar kid ever speaks up or allows a sib to speak up is because by going with the family line they get on tv and they get money. I expect they're too dim to realize that at this point. But someday, when it's over, some of them probably will realize that it's the tv money that has truly kept them ALL shackled all this time. Some of them will be like their parents forever and want to be shackled. But when the tv money goes away, some of them will realize that that's what's kept them locked in. So TLC and its audience are very much to blame for the fact that this situation continues for ALL the Duggar kidlets, in my view. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

Looks like Jessa wore her trusty fugly brown sandals.

[graefin]

44 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Looks like Jessa wore her trusty fugly brown sandals.

Someone should burn those.

Also, isn't it second nature to add spices to food when you are cooking it? How exactly does one forget to do that, especially when you are following a recipe? These folks have clearly never cooked any sort of real meal in their lives.

[humbleopinion]

The best 2 bucks Jessa has spent at the consignment store was on those fugliest fugly sandals...

[flyingdi]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I agree. I see it both ways all the time. I realize that the kids seem to be trapped. And I feel a lot of sympathy for them.

At the same time it infuriates me that they grow to adulthood being so willing to be total shills for their parents and that it never ever seems to occur to any of them that each person is an individual who has a right to make decisions for himself or herself. That's what "protecting" Joy here amounted to. Pushing her to BELIEVE something that she was struggling with. And to believe it why? Because two stupid, venal mean unthinking assholes believe it. Belief!

Not "Hey, Joy, it's a bad idea to go out and have random unprotected sex with local high school boys! That's dangerous!" But "Hey, Joy, you better BELIEVE just exactly to the letter what Mama and Daddy believe" because...

Because what??? ... Because they'll beat or imprison you or deprive you of food or throw you out on the street or send you to "Journey of the Heart" or "Alert" for more intensive brainwashing for not BELIEVING it? Well, yeah, then he was "protecting' her from something.

But guess what? Most people around here absolutely refuse to believe that the Jim Bob and Michelle actually tangibly abuse their children over stuff like this. (And I don't actually believe that they do much if any of that either, except for the "send to Gotahrdland" part. But if I had a dollar for every time I've read the bullshit comment "Jim Bob loves eez kidz!!!!?" I'd have quite a few dollars. They may not beat these grown up kids but they don't love them either. They don't know what "love" is. They know a lot about the meaning of possessing and controlling someone, though.)

So if you guys are right, then what the hell was he "protecting her" from? Getting into arguments with her parents over their theological beliefs? Beliefs that most people in the world, not just around here, fully recognize as cruel, manipulative antediluvian, individual-killing bullshit. Why the hell shouldn't she get into strident arguments with those two fools over those beliefs? It's about time somebody did. 

So if he was "protecting her" from DISAGREEING ABOUT THEOLOGY with her parents, then, yeah, I feel absolutely comfortable continuing to blast the little idiot. (Not that he didn't MEAN well, probably. Nevertheless, he's still an ass if that's what he was "protecting her" from. And a coward. And someone who respects only power and not the human soul. Somebody who was already near adulthood and was still a brainwashed baby, and brainwashed by two selfish infantile venal idiots.)) 

This is what slavery is made of. People have long thought that it's also a kindness to tell slaves and other downtrodden people to "Just go along with it so you don't get in MORE trouble!"

And now there's a whole lot of general weeping and wailing around here about "poor Joy" "poor Joyless" and how she's had the spunk completely squashed out of her, And because she's such a young unprepared mother who's possibly married to a controlling dumbass and has already risked massive childbirth complications. Etc. Etc.

Well, guess what? By discouraging his sister from DISAGREEING with their parents, he was a major participant in bringing about that outcome, that most people here claim to loathe. 

So what exactly did he ultimately protect her from? Because from where I sit her current life looks pretty much like it's going to shit. 

And since NOBODY seems ever to speak up against JB and M, they're just being increasingly empowered to go on doing what they're doing. And what they do? It's wrong and it's evil. They've raised a bunch of supposed adults now. Time for some of those adults to engage them on the subject of whether their "theology" is right or whether it's very very very very wrong. 

ETA: It's also my opinion that the primary reason no Duggar kid ever speaks up or allows a sib to speak up is because by going with the family line they get on tv and they get money. I expect they're too dim to realize that at this point. But someday, when it's over, some of them probably will realize that it's the tv money that has truly kept them ALL shackled all this time. Some of them will be like their parents forever and want to be shackled. But when the tv money goes away, some of them will realize that that's what's kept them locked in. So TLC and its audience are very much to blame for the fact that this situation continues for ALL the Duggar kidlets, in my view. 

 

I agree with your view but I also don't think parents need to physically abuse their children to show their displeasure with them and that displeasure can feel downright hostile.  Children, even adult children, are predisposed to want to please their parents.  It also seems, the harder ones parent is to please, the harder the child will try.  Its all a mental game to Jim Bob and Michelle and they don't see their kids as adults anyway.

Edited March 27, 2018 by flyingdi

[Mollie]

When Joy was talking about not accepting her parents' religion, she was probably talking about Gothardism and reading the Book of Proverbs every day instead of the books in the Bible which claim to record God's voice.  Joe might have been explaining to her that Gothardism isn't based on the Bible and he might have been sharing with her the things he learned when he studied at a Bible college for a year.  He probably also explained to her that she could marry at 18 and leave Gothardism for good. 

It is interesting that when Joe came back from Bible college that he also was the inspiration for his brothers to start reading the Bible, which sounded like that was something they never did before.

Rather than leading her back into the cult, I think it is possible that Joe was supporting her decision to leave the cult.  That may just be wishful thinking on my part, but Joy's tears were real and visibly affected Jim Bob.   

[Fuzzysox]

4 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

You get what you bargain or pay for.

Remember Bin was forced to get married in order to have the sex. I'm sure he is regretting it ever since. He could have had all the sex he wanted if he was allowed to be a normal boy. I'm not saying that Bin could have been a manwhore but more like Babe where he had sex and he didn't die.

2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

The best 2 bucks Jessa has spent at the consignment store was on those fugliest fugly sandals...

I think those were freebies from when they were doing those Famous Footwear ads within an episode.

[Churchhoney]

29 minutes ago, Mollie said:

 

Rather than leading her back into the cult, I think it is possible that Joe was supporting her decision to leave the cult.  That may just be wishful thinking on my part, but Joy's tears were real and visibly affected Jim Bob.   

Jim Bob's a frigging narcissist and self-obsessed phony who's not affected by anything except things that he interprets as relating to HIMSELF. He doesn't give a shit about Joy's tears except insofar as he perceives them as some sort of paean to his total ownership of the TTH crew and environs. And that includes his continued devotion to the Gothard cult. "Awwww. Jim Bob loves eez kids. He's moved to tears by them." Total 1000 percent bullshit. I'd bet my house and all my retirement accounts that he cares for absolutely nothing but his own fat hypocritical ass. Why is that teary shithead so good at fooling people? He's utter uncaring scum. How is that not completely obvious, tears or no tears? 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Churchhoney

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, that story about how they forgot to put seasoning in the meat before cooking it.....so odd.  I thought they were at home in the kitchen.  Maybe, it was just an oversight, but, they did add salt and pepper, so, how do you forget other spices when making meatballs?  But, as long as Jeremy enjoyed it.  lol 

Can someone tell me what the large brown things were on the wedding cake?  I've never seen brown on a wedding cake before and it was quite alarming, imo.  

[bigskygirl]

14 minutes ago, Fuzzysox said:

Remember Bin was forced to get married in order to have the sex. I'm sure he is regretting it ever since. He could have had all the sex he wanted if he was allowed to be a normal boy. I'm not saying that Bin could have been a manwhore but more like Babe where he had sex and he didn't die.

I think those were freebies from when they were doing those Famous Footwear ads within an episode.

 He should have known no education and/or job and marrying someone who he barely knows along with no birth control equals disaster. He may be seeing the writing on the wall and is taking a hard long look at Smuggar and Derelict and sees he is going to be miserable in the long run. He may also be a little jealous of Jeremy because Jeremy and Jinger are now considered the golden couple instead of him and Jessa. He had his day in the sun at the beginning of the new series, and he is now being tossed aside because Jeremy and Jinger have taken over the title of being the "it" Duggar couple.

Edited March 27, 2018 by bigskygirl

[Jeanne222]

I'm waiting to hear Jim bob cheats.  That would be juicy as hell!

Btw I took one for the team and made meatballs today!  Not 200 but enough for dinner!  I seasoned them too!

[Magoo]

16 hours ago, Pickles said:

Why we're her parents so thrilled when she shoved cake all over his face? I always think that is mean. So much kissing. I guess that is what happens, when you have never kissed prior to marriage. I don't know any of those other Duggar boys. Had no idea who they were! I think Joe and Kendra could not wait to get to the hotel and rip each other's clothes off. 

Agreed - was thinking this same thing last week when they were tubing and thought it was hilarious to try to violently shake the rider off with sharp turns, etc.  We used to tube behind a speedboat back in the day, and not only does it hurt to get tossed off, it can also be dangerous depending on the rate of speed the boat is going, especially if there is more than one person riding.  That water can feel like cement.  It's always bothered me how mean-spirited their so-called pranks are - meant to hurt, humiliate and shame.  Is this their way of releasing some of their pent-up anger and frustration with the shackled lives they're forced to lead?  Gross.

[lookeyloo]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I agree. I see it both ways all the time. I realize that the kids seem to be trapped. And I feel a lot of sympathy for them.

At the same time it infuriates me that they grow to adulthood being so willing to be total shills for their parents and that it never ever seems to occur to any of them that each person is an individual who has a right to make decisions for himself or herself. That's what "protecting" Joy here amounted to. Pushing her to BELIEVE something that she was struggling with. And to believe it why? Because two stupid, venal mean unthinking assholes believe it. Belief!

Not "Hey, Joy, it's a bad idea to go out and have random unprotected sex with local high school boys! That's dangerous!" But "Hey, Joy, you better BELIEVE just exactly to the letter what Mama and Daddy believe" because...

Because what??? ... Because they'll beat or imprison you or deprive you of food or throw you out on the street or send you to "Journey of the Heart" or "Alert" for more intensive brainwashing for not BELIEVING it? Well, yeah, then he was "protecting' her from something.

But guess what? Most people around here absolutely refuse to believe that the Jim Bob and Michelle actually tangibly abuse their children over stuff like this. (And I don't actually believe that they do much if any of that either, except for the "send to Gotahrdland" part. But if I had a dollar for every time I've read the bullshit comment "Jim Bob loves eez kidz!!!!?" I'd have quite a few dollars. They may not beat these grown up kids but they don't love them either. They don't know what "love" is. They know a lot about the meaning of possessing and controlling someone, though.)

So if you guys are right, then what the hell was he "protecting her" from? Getting into arguments with her parents over their theological beliefs? Beliefs that most people in the world, not just around here, fully recognize as cruel, manipulative antediluvian, individual-killing bullshit. Why the hell shouldn't she get into strident arguments with those two fools over those beliefs? It's about time somebody did. 

So if he was "protecting her" from DISAGREEING ABOUT THEOLOGY with her parents, then, yeah, I feel absolutely comfortable continuing to blast the little idiot. (Not that he didn't MEAN well, probably. Nevertheless, he's still an ass if that's what he was "protecting her" from. And a coward. And someone who respects only power and not the human soul. Somebody who was already near adulthood and was still a brainwashed baby, and brainwashed by two selfish infantile venal idiots.)) 

This is what slavery is made of. People have long thought that it's also a kindness to tell slaves and other downtrodden people to "Just go along with it so you don't get in MORE trouble!"

And now there's a whole lot of general weeping and wailing around here about "poor Joy" "poor Joyless" and how she's had the spunk completely squashed out of her, And because she's such a young unprepared mother who's possibly married to a controlling dumbass and has already risked massive childbirth complications. Etc. Etc.

Well, guess what? By discouraging his sister from DISAGREEING with their parents, he was a major participant in bringing about that outcome, that most people here claim to loathe. 

So what exactly did he ultimately protect her from? Because from where I sit her current life looks pretty much like it's going to shit. 

And since NOBODY seems ever to speak up against JB and M, they're just being increasingly empowered to go on doing what they're doing. And what they do? It's wrong and it's evil. They've raised a bunch of supposed adults now. Time for some of those adults to engage them on the subject of whether their "theology" is right or whether it's very very very very wrong. 

ETA: It's also my opinion that the primary reason no Duggar kid ever speaks up or allows a sib to speak up is because by going with the family line they get on tv and they get money. I expect they're too dim to realize that at this point. But someday, when it's over, some of them probably will realize that it's the tv money that has truly kept them ALL shackled all this time. Some of them will be like their parents forever and want to be shackled. But when the tv money goes away, some of them will realize that that's what's kept them locked in. So TLC and its audience are very much to blame for the fact that this situation continues for ALL the Duggar kidlets, in my view. 

Trying to understand. So are you saying it was up to Joe (who might have been a kid himself) to help her disagree with the parents?  I wasn't raised fundy but sometimes as a child I thought I was helping protect my brothers.  Maybe not?

[humbleopinion]

Pastor and Mrs. Caldwell conspired to do the cake prank to counter the thoughts of Joe shoving his penis into their little girl....

[Absolom]

25 minutes ago, Magoo said:

 It's always bothered me how mean-spirited their so-called pranks are - meant to hurt, humiliate and shame.  Is this their way of releasing some of their pent-up anger and frustration with the shackled lives they're forced to lead?  Gross.

That's a large portion of the way their church and their parents have retained control of them with hurt, humiliation, and shame so they perpetuate what they have been taught.

[Westiepeach]

When Husband and I got married, the one thing that was non-negotiable for both of us was neither of us were going to smash the wedding cake in each other’s faces. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Westiepeach
.

[madpsych78]

Yeah, that stood out to me too. Joe did not smash the cake into Kendra's face, but Kendra smashed it into Joe's - with encouragement from her mother!

Joe is the only one who went to college, so it is totally plausible that he learned new things about the Bible that were not of Gothard and passed that to his siblings.

[louannems]

Is Crown College a Gothardite school? Didn't Joe attend Crown?

[BitterApple]

3 hours ago, graefin said:

Someone should burn those.

Also, isn't it second nature to add spices to food when you are cooking it? How exactly does one forget to do that, especially when you are following a recipe? These folks have clearly never cooked any sort of real meal in their lives.

I also remember the girls having no clue how to make mashed potatoes from scratch and for most of us that's like Cooking 101. Even Jana sucks in the kitchen and she's supposed to be the best of them all. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by BitterApple

[SongbirdHollow]

39 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

When Husband and I got married, the one thing that was non-negotiable for both of us was neither of us were going to smash the wedding cake in each other’s faces. 

My husband didn't smash, but he gently dabbed the icing on the tip of my nose, then kissed it off. 

We also saved the top tier of our cake in the freezer for our first anniversary, and ended up devouring it about a month after the wedding when we were craving dessert. LOL. 

[Churchhoney]

Joe's older than Joy, so if she was a teenager old enough to question whether she wanted to believe in her parents' religion then he was an older teenager. And he didn't have shoo her back to mommy's and daddy's exact belief, as he apparently did. 

He could have quietly said, 'Joy, you're in a person who has a mind and heart just like any other person (including our parents). So you have a right to think through BELIEFS and decide what you want to believe. Because beliefs are between you and your own soul and whoever else is in this universe, such as God. They aren't anybody else's business and nobody else has a right to decide them for you. You have to decide on your own. If you're questioning, there's nothing wrong with that. You just keep thinking and considering and praying and reading and meditating, and you'll come out with what's right for you to believe in in the end. I support you completely no matter what you decide. Don't feel any pressure. You're going to be fine." 

But like all the others, he's more likely been fucking weaponized by his for-shit parents to immediately jump on her and push her back to swallowing something she apparently wasn't ready to swallow. 

Just like the "She really just wants to live near a Walmart!" 

It's quite clear that they all reflexively jump in to push their siblings in line. And that not one kid in that family has been left with any concept of individuals having a right to their own beliefs. And, as I said, Yeah, part of me does feel sorry for them being brainwashed in this way. But as time goes on most of me is just disgusted by the fact that not one of them has the balls and the brains to stand up for the idea that people's BELIEFS are their OWN and don't HAVE to mirror mommy and daddy. 

And I'm more sickened by people looking at this from the outside and thinking it's so damn sweet. What it is is a sign that this family has psychologically abused and warped all 19 of its kids to a faretheewell. And there's nothing in the least sweet about it. He wasn't "protecting" Joy, although I'm sure he thought he was. He had been weaponized to keep her -- and anybody else who expressed an individual thought of their own -- in line, just like people in some totalitarian dystopian prison camp. 

People are very happy to bash Josiah for looking old and greasy now, for example. And they're very happy to lament that Joy is now Joyless and has had her life stunted. But what's behind those things? This family machine of weaponized children that constantly enforces highly constrained groupthink under the guise of "protection." 

[luvmylabs]

18 hours ago, Pickles said:

Why we're her parents so thrilled when she shoved cake all over his face? I always think that is mean. So much kissing. I guess that is what happens, when you have never kissed prior to marriage. I don't know any of those other Duggar boys. Had no idea who they were! I think Joe and Kendra could not wait to get to the hotel and rip each other's clothes off. 

I agree.  I've never thought that to be classy or even funny.

[BitterApple]

Joy and Joe embracing after her speech was the only time I've seen a real, full frontal hug between a Duggar brother and sister EVER. I know there's mixed feelings about what kind of influence Joe may have had on Joy, but if the type of "support" she was alluding to was helping her cope with Joshgate, then I can't judge him too harshly.

[Scarlett45]

8 hours ago, louannems said:

I found it so odd that Joe was frequently the first person in the morning to say I love you to Joy.

Mornings were hectic in our family of seven, growing up, and I love you's were not said by anyone in the morning.  At night during tuck-ins, and maybe going out the door for school.

I have two brothers, one a year older, and one a year younger, and neither has ever told me they love me!

I don’t find it odd. Joe is the eldest of the “middle kids”- josh, JD and the J-Slaves were actually raised by the parents but Joseph on down were the first to get buddies. Seeing as how Joe appears to be a naturally warm nurturing person, he was probably the “go to” for the group of kids (down until Jackson) when the sister Moms are busy. 

I don’t have brothers, but I grew up in an extended family where “I love you.” was a part of a standard good bye after a long separation- the male cousins Im closest to have told me they love me. “Luv ya cousin!” in text messages etc. my grandfather and uncles said it regularly to the kids...in some families it’s the norm. 

[tabloidlover]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, that story about how they forgot to put seasoning in the meat before cooking it.....so odd.  I thought they were at home in the kitchen.  Maybe, it was just an oversight, but, they did add salt and pepper, so, how do you forget other spices when making meatballs?  But, as long as Jeremy enjoyed it.  lol 

Can someone tell me what the large brown things were on the wedding cake?  I've never seen brown on a wedding cake before and it was quite alarming, imo.  

I had the opposite impression.   He looked less than enthusiastic and paused a beat before responding to the question "do you like it?"....  

[GeeGolly]

The juxtaposition of the Duggar 19 relationships are bizarre. They are enmeshed and detached all at once. The fact that any sibling gave another sibling warm and kind support is outside of the Duggar norm. They parallel play all the way into adulthood. And if they're not parallel playing they're competing. So it is a bit remarkable when we hear of something that sounds like genuine support.

And really, for all we know Joy was whining about not being able to wear pants and Joe told her that she was lucky to be able to wear skirts in the summer, and Joy was like, "Wow, thanks Joe! That's surreal". I'm guessing it wasn't running away to become a Catholic nun, or an teenage barista. 

[humbleopinion]

So many frontal hugs in the episode...what is going on here?.....

I looked very carefully for Derick...it was a quick pan...blurry and in the shadows of the back pews...

 I saw a slim figure... hog tied, gagged with gaffers tape wrapped around the mouth...so nice Derick could make it to the wedding...

[Chalby]

22 hours ago, woodscommaelle said:

Jana better be fucking getting paid to be their wedding coordinator. But she's probably not.

1

Jana is the only one I enjoy seeing. I have no interest in the others and fast forward through everything because they are painfully boring. I do like Jinger and her hubby and I especially love that she's not popping out babies for a hobby. Jana and Jinger should think of a business to go into, together, and ditch the rest of the related-goofs.

[Chalby]

17 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I seldom watch this show but caught a few bits and pieces tonight, specifically Jessa and Jana making meatballs and the boys making a bench.  And all I could think of the whole time was that this is a group of unattractive (the men in particular), uninteresting people doing mundane things badly while surrounded by a group of bored children.  I know people here watch in order to snark, but there are obviously a few hundred thousand people each week who find this family entertaining.  I don't get it.

I hate to be so superficial, but I thought the same. I wonder if the D family is generous or at least share the $ made during the last ten years? Because some of those Duggars need A LOT of personality to compensate, and you know ma and pa won't allow any unique personalities. So hopefully these boys can at least offer some money to their prospective brides?