S07.E15: Sisterhood

[formerlyfreedom]

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When the Candy Killer attacks, Ivy will have to risk what remains of her family, while Jacinda and Henry grow closer and Roni questions her relationship with Samdi. Meanwhile, Drizella faces an unthinkable challenge in her attempt to join the Witch’s Coven

 

[KingOfHearts]

Nick is obviously Hansel.

[Guest]

I’m clearly not paying enough attention to this show. 

That or I’m drowning in stuff that makes no sense that I never noticed the thing that makes the least sense of all.

If you haven’t guessed, I had a major WTF why didn’t I notice this before moment during the show.

Henry Mills is going to ask out the next woman to walk into the bar.  Mills.  Henry Mills.

Mister if he learns about the curse then he’ll die is the only one on this show that doesn’t have a cursed name.

So David was dying as the curse was cast and woke with no memories.

Henry was dying as the curse was cast and somehow woke with altered memories but the curse forgot to give him a name.

Have they explained this?

[Rumsy4]

Well...I guessed Nick was Hansel/the killer. At last he has something to justify his existence this season, I guess.

I'm glad they didn't kill off Ivy and Ana, and with this, the whole Rapunzel/Tremaine chapter has been closed. This whole plot has been a major misstep, and it's good we're done now. Better late than never, I suppose. 

Henry is soooooooo lame at flirting. Who writes this stuff? And I hate to say this, but that was the most anti-charismatic way to Make an Entrance. The swelling romantic music in the background just brought the dullness of Jacinda's entrance into stark relief. And Henry is exactly the kind of guy who would complain about being "friendzoned" by his crush's daughter. 

I missed the last scene between good-hearted Weaver and the romantic Samdi. 

Next week looks to be exciting. 

14 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Have they explained this?

Hahahahahhaha

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Nick is obviously Hansel.

Its sad that they are so stingy on the budget.  Three sad boxes of chocolates and a rubber mask.  They really should have tricked out that trunk with the tools of a candy killer.  It should have rivaled the Supernatural trunk for implements of death and candy.

17 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I'm glad they didn't kill off Ivy and Ana, and with this, the whole Rapunzel/Tremaine chapter has been closed. This whole plot has been a major misstep, and it's good we're done now. Better late than never, I suppose. 

While I'm glad they didn't kill off Ivy...  Magic beans.  Again?  In this land with no magic where the curse has not been broken, let's use a magic bean to open a portal to sweep the last vestiges of the story they got board with to another realm.  This is why this show deserved to get cancelled.  Lazy. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by ParadoxLost

[KingOfHearts]

Drizella highlights one of the biggest issues plaguing the show at the moment - the character motivations are all over the place. Drizella had the skeleton design of a compelling character, but the writers stumbled way too much on the execution. If you see her as a girl way over her head trying to prove herself, she really works. But when she's a cold-blooded killer, she doesn't. I enjoyed her "tough sassy girl" act as a facade for her inner insecurities. The actress lifted the writing pretty well. At the beginning of this episode, I hoped she would survive with her sister. By the middle, I desired for Anastasia to throw her off the building. She had just tried to murder her sister, asserting that she was only looking out for herself, then minutes later they were bestie sistas forevah. Why would Anastasia trust her at all? Drizella repeatedly betrayed her. That's why I can't buy their reunion and happy ever after.

For most of her time on the show, Drizella was just too stupid to live. She trusted all the wrong people after said people threw her under the bus. And for what? She cast the curse, but she's gone now. That makes the curse even more irrelevant than it already is. Her character arc was pointless. Why even go through the trouble of redeeming her? So she could get rid of a character the writers weren't interested in anyway?

[CCTC]

13 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I missed the last scene between good-hearted Weaver and the romantic Samdi. 

Yes - I was talking to someone and completely missed what happened here.

I completely missed on Nick being Hansel - partially because why do we care since Gretel is dead and Ivy who would have been the only other one who might have been semi-interested in his Hansel identity.  If they were going to make Nick the killer, they maybe could have given him some screen time since October.  Even in this episode he did not really contribute much except the big twist ending.  (Although I guess it does make sense that he is Hansel and wants to kill witches from his childhood trauma).

Jaceida and Henry did not bother me this episode, but they really are the definition of anti-chemistry.  When she walked through the bar door they emanated the heat of a Popsicle  While I might like Henry more than Jaceinda, the anti-chemistry might be more on him.  The expression on his face when he sees her is one of a rather blank expression with a goofy grin.  I think he might be trying to channel some of the innocence and wonderment of original Henry and it really does not give a passionate true love feel.

Ivy really was one of the positives of this season.  It is too bad Lady Tremaine was not more effective or written better, because it could have possibly been a decent arc if people had been fleshed out a little more at the beginning and they had done a better job showing some of the relationships early on.  Regina saying she understood obviously made sense, but seeing Ivy's redemption just made me think that is really how they should have handled Regina in season 2B.  Have her influenced by Cora,but the more she sees and spends time with her the more she questions things and ultimately seeing what she did wrong and actually seeming sincere in her regret.  Instead they had her cackle when her mother threw an innocent lady to her death and had no understanding of why Snow had to do what she did. 

Overall, I actually thought it was a decent episode, although my other petty comment is that Weaver doing the good thing because it will bring him closer to Belle just rang false.  His whole story line just seems like treading water until they can reunite him with Belle and the only reason it exists is because they got the actor for another year, and then did not know what do with him.

5 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Drizella highlights one of the biggest issues plaguing the show at the moment - the character motivations are all over the place

Yes -- they introduce one motive in one episode and then it is completely different later.   Things Tremaine and Cinderella did in the premiere really did not make sense later.  Goethelle is also a bit like  that. what she does in one episode does not really flow with what happens later.  Plus her actions are not always the smartest.  Why betray Ivy - she could have had two gifted witches in her employ and under her influence.  I am surprised she just let the sisters waltz through the porthole without trying to stop and/or kill them.

And yes, most of what happened the first number of episodes of the season ended up being pretty pointless.

[Rumsy4]

11 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

She had just tried to murder her sister, asserting that she was only looking out for herself, then minutes later they were bestie sistas forevah.

What's a little murder attempt or two between sisters? Ask Regina and Zelena.

2 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Weaver doing the good thing because it will bring him closer to Belle just rang false.  

Agree. It sounded artificial. The whole chipped cup motif has been done to death in this Show. It was yet another cheap shot to create Rumbelle nostalgia.

[KingOfHearts]

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

What's a little murder attempt or two between sisters? Ask Regina and Zelena.

That's been a problem with the show since 2B. Murder is akin to telling a white lie or being late to a friend's birthday party.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Overall, I actually thought it was a decent episode, although my other petty comment is that Weaver doing the good thing because it will bring him closer to Belle just rang false.  His whole story line just seems like treading water until they can reunite him with Belle and the only reason it exists is because they got the actor for another year, and then did not know what do with him.

I think Rumple striving to do good to get back to Belle is strictly so the show can ignore how Rumple would handle things that are inconvenient to the plot.

its like when character fail to ask the obvious questions because it was resolve a mystery or conflict.

[Writing Wrongs]

So now anyone and everyone can wield magic? Gretel can turn shit into candy? Alrighty then

Whenever Jacinda opens her mouth, I cringe.  The actress is just terrible.

What the hell happened to my favorite show? Instead of re-doing every past character, they could've moved forward with the ones we already had. I don't like any of these characters, because they are just fake versions of what was done before.  Even the sets and costumes look cheaper. Those sais that Gothel gave Gretel and Drizella looked like papier mache.

I'll be glad when this mess is over.

[thuganomics85]

OK, Ivy/Drizella has easily been one of my favorite things about this disappointing season, but I am so confused over her so-called "redemption."  Because from what I could tell, she was actually fully prepared to let Facilier kill Anastasia, and only changed her mind after it didn't work and suddenly Anastasia still woke up.  And even then, her reasons seem to boil down to "Gothel tricked me", which, yes, true, but that's an excuse that could work for accidentally hurting someone feelings, and not "planning ones murder."  Unless I was suppose to believe that the final card Facilier gave her (that the audience didn't see) showed that it was all an act and she was playing along, but if that is the case, the show really didn't explain it all that well.  Whatever, I guess.  They get their "happy ending", and hopefully Adelaide Kane will find a better gig elsewhere.  My prediction/hope: going back to The CW, and getting on one of the D.C. shows.  Zatanna, perhaps?

The flashback was a little better since Drizella actually wasn't planning on going through with Gothel's bidding, but her hand was forced after Gretel refused to budge.  Kind of a waste of that character, but it was fun seeing Sara Canning in the role, who is one of those actresses that pops up in most Vancouver productions (I remember her best as the lead in Primeval: New World.)

Just when I think the show has found awareness, it doubles back down on Henry/Jacinda, and highlights the void between the two of them.  Just no chemistry there.  Hell, Henry had more of a spark with Nick of all people.

I actually enjoyed the Ronnie/Weaver scenes, because no matter how dumb the writing gets or how annoying their characters can be, Lana Parrilla and Robert Carlyle really are splendid together.

So, the witch killer is Nick.  I know they said that he was Jack in fantasy land, but I agree that he is going to end up being Hansel, since Gretel said Hansel goes by another name now, and it would make sense (I know, for this show, that's saying something!) for Hansel to want to off witches.

[Camera One]

The moment flashback Gretel mentioned her brother, it was obvious that the brother was Nick and Nick was the killer.  When his car tires got flat, it was obvious what we would see in his trunk.  A&E probably patted themselves on the back on such a plot twist.  Too bad Nick has only been a glorified extra and nothing about his jolly BFF past indicated he was a secret psycho (plus Henry was a really bad judge of character).  Killing the Blind Witch made sense for him, and also trying to kill Drizella (because of what happened to Gretel), but what about the doctor?  How did he "wake", anyway.

In the flashback, Gothel's motivations were pretty idiotic.  Drizella had already committed cold-blooded murder of that Prince she was paired with.  Why would she need to prove herself again with a lame "Hunger Games" rip-off?  The entire flashback was ultimately to serve the secret plot twist.  

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

At the beginning of this episode, I hoped she would survive with her sister. By the middle, I desired for Anastasia to throw her off the building. She had just tried to murder her sister, asserting that she was only looking out for herself, then minutes later they were bestie sistas forevah. Why would Anastasia trust her at all? Drizella repeatedly betrayed her. That's why I can't buy their reunion and happy ever after.

This pretty much described my exact feelings as I watched this episode.  After willingly choosing to sacrifice her sister for the magic bean, the character was no longer redeemable.  The fact that they thought our hearts would warm at her exit with Anastasia and she had learned the true meaning of sisterly love was impossible to believe.  It was completely unearned.  She even started blaming Gothel for manipulating her, even though she killed that Prince without Gothel's interference.  So much for taking full responsibility for her actions as she started to do in a previous episode.  

So they completely wasted making Drizella into a more three-dimensional character because... they wanted to make Dr. Facilier a more three-dimensional character?  That he knew all along that Anastasia wouldn't die but needed to siphon off some of her magic, so he could gift it to Roni because he loved her so much?  What a bunch of BS.  The whole lie he gave Drizella was completely unnecessary.   His price for the bean could have been Anastasia gifting him some magic.  

Why didn't one of them go through the portal so they could grab some magic from the Disenchanted Forest and then come back to break the Curse?  Why didn't Rumple just go back with them?  It's not like he's needed in Hyperion Heights.  Why would Gothel just stomp off when Anastasia didn't kill Drizella?  

Speaking of which, when did Anastasia run away from Gothel, anyway?  

So Gothel wants the Dark One's dagger too?  So much for having a more interesting motivation than that.

The slow-motion shots of Jacinda were just so cringeworthy.  I had second-hand embarrassment.  

Henry didn't need to be cheered up.  The loser was perfectly happy playing arcade games.  And why would spending a night with Jacinda's ex cheer Henry up anyway?  The three men hardly had a conversation together to establish their bond.  Again, it was just a setup for the plot twist.

Overall, this episode was a mess, and I think very little of it.  

I forgot to mention I loved seeing Sabine.  I'm so glad she was made a series regular!

Edited March 31, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Why didn't one of them go through the portal so they could grab some magic from the Disenchanted Forest and then come back to break the Curse?  

That was infuriating. These idiots don't deserve to be saved. 

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I forgot to mention I loved seeing Sabine.  I'm so glad she was made a series regular!

It was fantastic they followed up the last episode with a scene of Tilly settling down in Rogers' flat as well.

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

That he knew all along that Anastasia wouldn't die but needed to siphon off some of her magic, so he could gift it to Roni because he loved her so much?  What a bunch of BS. 

But that is what makes him a complex character! With gray areas! And proves he's just a puppy dog inside! The true match for Rongina!!

Edited March 31, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

So Gothel spent an entire subplot in "Knightfall" at the police station messing with Rogers but she actually had nothing to do with the red herring chocolates.  I see this season is going to have great rewatch value.

What exactly does de-Dark One-ization involve anyway?  Why didn't Weaver just give Anastasia the Dagger?  "One day another Guardian will appear".  Oh sure, let's just wait for that.  I didn't realize they were a dime a dozen.

How did Regina find Rumple in that random restaurant destroyed by Anastasia?  No need to explain how characters get from point A to point B.  That's beneath us as writers.

Edited March 31, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

4 minutes ago, Camera One said:

"One day another Guardian will appear"

"And I will stay in the Land Without Magic to find the Guardian, instead of taking the portal back to the magical lands."

[Lady Calypso]

I only watched bits and pieces of the episode, but I feel like even if I had watched the entire thing, I still would have been confused.

I like Ivy/Drizella and am thrilled that she's living (that means my headcanon for post-series of Henry/Drizella can be a thing), but her whole redemption arc is dumb. Anastasia has no reason to trust her sister ever again. Drizella was making excuses still for her actions by the end. Sure, Gothel tricked her several times over, but she still made those choices herself. A good chunk of her apology was about how Gothel tricked her. Sure, she said she was sorry and she made bad choices, but it was always followed with a "but...but Gothel..." 

Also, yeah, echoing the thoughts about Drizella and Anastasia leaving the place without magic, with Ana being the only one with any magic. What, you can't go pop in with magic later on? Maybe give Regina her magic back? Nothing? Now, we gotta waste more episodes with Regina bemoaning how she doesn't have enough magic to break the curse! Good job, Drizella! And no, A&E, having Drizella mention how she's leaving them to clean up the mess and Regina mentioning that they can break the curse on their own doesn't work. 

I'm glad I missed most of the Henry/Jacinda stuff. I cannot believe A&E is still heading full steam ahead on the romance that literally no audience member wants. 

So, it sounds like Nick is Hansel. Ok, then. Sure, why not finally use the actor for something other than a background character. He has barely been in the show as it is, so yeah, why not bring him in finally to make use of him? Gretel said that her brother had left their whole thing with scars on his arms, right? I assume we haven't seen Nick's arms to confirm. However....it's not like we have Drizella around now to confirm that story that she was told in the Disenchanted Forest. So....there's literally no connection or no reason to care. Nick's going to state that he's Hansel and nobody's going to give a shit. It would just be a pointless plot for the characters, anyway. 

I hope Facilier actually finds a way to switch Henry's heart with Jacinda's, lies and says he's cured Henry, and then we can watch Jacinda take the bullet to break the curse. Her mere presence annoys me. I only caught the dumb final scene with her tossing the Flynn coin into the water/alcohol behind her and without much context for what happened there (I was busy watching another show), it seemed stupid as hell.

[Rumsy4]

24 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Gretel said that her brother had left their whole thing with scars on his arms, right? I assume we haven't seen Nick's arms to confirm. However....it's not like we have Drizella around now to confirm that story that she was told in the Disenchanted Forest. So....there's literally no connection or no reason to care. Nick's going to state that he's Hansel and nobody's going to give a shit. It would just be a pointless plot for the characters, anyway. 

No, we haven't seen the scars. I kept expecting to see a shot of Nick rolling up his sleeves to reveal the scars. The candy box ought to have triggered Ivy's memory of Gretel, and as she was grappling with her would-be killer, she could've noticed the scars on his arm. But that would have "ruined" the super shocking reveal at the end of the episode when Nick opened his car trunk and revealed the candy boxes and the mask. And A&E can't bear to ruin their twists. So, the whole Hansel and Gretel thing becomes just a literary wink to the audience.

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I guessed Nick was Hansel/the killer. At last he has something to justify his existence this season, I guess.

Yeah, the moment Gretel gave Hansel's backstory, I figured he'd end up being Jack/Nick, just because there's no one else on the show who fits, they wouldn't bother to say that he goes by a different name now if we hadn't already met him, and that's the only good reason he needed to be part of Operation Bromance, since it's weird to make Henry hang out with friends he doesn't even remember. Making him hang out with Rogers makes sense, given that they were working together to help Tilly, but I wouldn't think that hanging out with the ex and babydaddy of the woman he can't be with wouldn't be conducive to making him feel better about not being with Jacinda, so that bit was clearly plot-driven. I kept waiting for him to roll up his sleeves while shooting pool, but then when he was fixing the car I knew we'd see something in the trunk.

12 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Henry was dying as the curse was cast and somehow woke with altered memories but the curse forgot to give him a name.

Have they explained this?

I think it's strictly because they were trying to repeat the beginning of the series at the end of season six to set up the reboot, and for that to really work, we needed to know that the guy we were seeing was Henry. It wouldn't have had the same impact if the guy we'd seen in the mysterious flashbacks/forwards had opened the door in modern Seattle and the girl we knew was his daughter had said, "Harold Martin, your family needs you." So it was all about creating that moment, but then they were stuck with it. Though I guess it could have worked if she'd said, "Henry Mills, your family needs you," and he'd said, "Who?"

Not only does he get to keep his real name in the curse, but he apparently wrote a book in which the main character was named Henry Mills.

11 hours ago, CCTC said:

While I might like Henry more than Jaceinda, the anti-chemistry might be more on him.  The expression on his face when he sees her is one of a rather blank expression with a goofy grin.  I think he might be trying to channel some of the innocence and wonderment of original Henry and it really does not give a passionate true love feel.

That's part of the problem with taking a child character and aging him into an adult character with an adult storyline. It just doesn't track well. If he tries to be at all like the younger version of the character, then he comes across as a childish adult and it's creepy for him to be in an adult romantic relationship. Even if he just acts like an adult and there's no trace of the previous version of the character, you can't help but think of the kid version. It's different when the primary character is an adult and then we see the child version in flashbacks, but we spent six years with young Henry, and now all of a sudden he's in his 30s (or whatever age -- going by the timeline, he's about 40 now) and dating in one reality and being a husband and father in another reality with no transition at all.

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

This pretty much described my exact feelings as I watched this episode.  After willingly choosing to sacrifice her sister for the magic bean, the character was no longer redeemable.  The fact that they thought our hearts would warm at her exit with Anastasia and she had learned the true meaning of sisterly love was impossible to believe.  It was completely unearned.  She even started blaming Gothel for manipulating her, even though she killed that Prince without Gothel's interference.  So much for taking full responsibility for her actions as she started to do in a previous episode.  

Plus, as we saw in this episode, even before the curse she knew Gothel was playing her. She knew Gothel had set her and Gretel up. She hated feeling forced to kill Gretel to save herself. And yet she still went along with Gothel's plan. We still don't (and probably never will, now) know what Drizella hoped to achieve with this curse. It didn't seem to do any good, and I didn't get the sense that she knew she hadn't achieved what she wanted.

9 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

It was fantastic they followed up the last episode with a scene of Tilly settling down in Rogers' flat as well.

At least we did get a mention that was kind of a follow-up, with him talking about needing to buy more jam now that she was staying with him. Sabine's offscreen role had absolutely nothing to do with her ongoing plot. I guess if Jacinda had been helping her with the food truck, there would have been no reason for her to show up at the arcade, but if Drew had shown up at the restaurant, that would have given Jacinda an excuse to slip away and leave them alone, so that would have at least picked up on one of Sabine's plot threads.

9 hours ago, Camera One said:

How did Regina find Rumple in that random restaurant destroyed by Anastasia?  No need to explain how characters get from point A to point B.  That's beneath us as writers.

Was there even any transition to him being in that restaurant? I was watching it streaming, and sometimes their commercial breaks get out of sync with the shows so that commercials either start appearing before the show's commercial break or the shows suddenly appear in the middle of commercials. That scene just appeared so suddenly after a commercial break that at first I thought it was an insurance commercial before Weaver appeared. The last time we saw him, he was supergluing a teacup. Then suddenly he's in a burned-out building, where Roni has tracked him down. His accent is weirdly all over the map now. As "Weaver" when he's dealing with Rogers, he goes very Cockney (and I've noticed that Rogers tends to drift in that direction, too, in scenes with him), but then he sounded more like normal Gold when talking to Regina.

It's funny, when the episode ended, the next thing that would have autoplayed on the ABC app was the pilot to Wonderland. That would have been quite the contrast. This season makes that pilot look amazing in comparison (and as much as I ended up loving that show, the pilot was kind of weak).

[Camera One]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Was there even any transition to him being in that restaurant? I was watching it streaming, and sometimes their commercial breaks get out of sync with the shows so that commercials either start appearing before the show's commercial break or the shows suddenly appear in the middle of commercials. That scene just appeared so suddenly after a commercial break that at first I thought it was an insurance commercial before Weaver appeared. The last time we saw him, he was supergluing a teacup. Then suddenly he's in a burned-out building, where Roni has tracked him down. 

Weaver with his flashlight in the restaurant was immediately after a commercial break (I remember because I over fast-forwarded and had to go back to the beginning of the scene, but it was just him with the flashlight so I missed nothing).

You did miss an extra scene in the police station.  After Rogers leaves to go to the market, another police officer comes up with a surveillance photo of "the missing girl" (aka Anastasia) in front of a restaurant.  

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Yeah, the moment Gretel gave Hansel's backstory, I figured he'd end up being Jack/Nick, just because there's no one else on the show who fits, they wouldn't bother to say that he goes by a different name now if we hadn't already met him, and that's the only good reason he needed to be part of Operation Bromance, since it's weird to make Henry hang out with friends he doesn't even remember. Making him hang out with Rogers makes sense, given that they were working together to help Tilly, but I wouldn't think that hanging out with the ex and babydaddy of the woman he can't be with wouldn't be conducive to making him feel better about not being with Jacinda, so that bit was clearly plot-driven. I kept waiting for him to roll up his sleeves while shooting pool, but then when he was fixing the car I knew we'd see something in the trunk.

The arms thing was rather pointless, unless they removed a scene that referred to it.  Leaving that reveal for another episode would have been ridiculous.  

If we needed to have a scene with the three bro's, there needed to be a conversation where Nick says he's okay with Henry dating Jacinda.  Henry and Nick never addressed that connection once in the bar.  But presumably Nick knows that Henry is Lucy's real father.  Maybe we'll get more backstory on this, or not.

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That's part of the problem with taking a child character and aging him into an adult character with an adult storyline. It just doesn't track well. If he tries to be at all like the younger version of the character, then he comes across as a childish adult and it's creepy for him to be in an adult romantic relationship. Even if he just acts like an adult and there's no trace of the previous version of the character, you can't help but think of the kid version.

Adult Henry was super child-like in this episode. He looked a bit like Jared when he was playing that arcade game.

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Plus, as we saw in this episode, even before the curse she knew Gothel was playing her. She knew Gothel had set her and Gretel up. She hated feeling forced to kill Gretel to save herself. And yet she still went along with Gothel's plan. We still don't (and probably never will, now) know what Drizella hoped to achieve with this curse. It didn't seem to do any good, and I didn't get the sense that she knew she hadn't achieved what she wanted.

This was another place where the flashback wasn't convincing.  It looked like Drizella was about to dump Gothel to work with Gretel, which suggests she wasn't going to enact the Dark Curse anymore (because why would Gretel help her with that?). 

It seemed like in this flashback Drizella knew full well that Gothel was the witch who caused all her problems in the first place by kidnapping her mother (in previous episodes, it seemed like Victoria kept that to herself so it hadn't been clear).  Yet Drizella still directed all her anger at her mother and none at Gothel?  

So Anastasia was just in that coffin for years?  

Edited March 31, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

The slow-motion shots of Jacinda were just so cringeworthy.  I had second-hand embarrassment.  

 

14 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Whenever Jacinda opens her mouth, I cringe.  The actress is just terrible.

This episode was a cringefest. I can't count how many times I rolled my eyes. From Henry playing Galaga at Flynn's (yes, we get it writers, you wrote Tron: Legacy), to Jacinda's super romantic coin-tossing game, to Drizella using paper lanterns to lure Anastasia. 

Could we stop with Facilier's tarot cards? Reading them seems to be all he does. Why not do voodoo dolls or something? 

Edited March 31, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Worsel]

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I hope Facilier actually finds a way to switch Henry's heart with Jacinda's, lies and says he's cured Henry, and then we can watch Jacinda take the bullet to break the curse. 

8 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Could we stop with Facilier's tarot cards? Reading them seems to be all he does. Why not do voodoo dolls or something? 

Oh Lady Calypso, it would make me so happy if your hope became real.

Kingofhearts, I would definitely be a Facilier fan if he made voodoo dolls of the writers.

[Camera One]

17 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Could we stop with Facilier's tarot cards? Reading them seems to be all he does. 

We don't even need an "expert" like him to read them.  These "tarot cards" actually showed Gothel, Drizella and Anastasia and even the lanterns.  It might as well be a crystal ball.

[kili]

Who goes out for dinner with friend, and when they have to wait for a table, goes over to a bar (barcade) by themselves waiting for their friend to text them that the table is ready? Apparently, Jacinda.

I was hoping that Nick wasn't the killer because he seemed like an interesting character, but I figured he would be because it is too late to add a new character. As soon as Gretel mentioned Hansel was troubled, I knew Nick would turn out to be Hansel. He recovers quickly from being pepper-sprayed.

Why did Nick attack the doctor first? Wouldn't he have gone after the blind witch first? The on that scarred him? Or Drizella or Gothel who  were responsible for his sister's death?

Since it is a sisterhood, why did that guy earlier in the season have the same tattoo? Was he part of the sisterhood at some point?

Everybody's motivations are all over the map. The writers probably think that it makes for a great mystery. To me, it feels lazy. Characters have the motivation they want them to have during the current episode and it may all be different next episode.

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, kili said:

Who goes out for dinner with friend, and when they have to wait for a table, goes over to a bar (barcade) by themselves waiting for their friend to text them that the table is ready? Apparently, Jacinda.

She really is the worst. That was the most awkward contrivance to set up her coming in. As I said above, it would have worked better and continued Sabine's plot threads if maybe Drew had shown up while Sabine and Jacinda were having dinner and Jacinda made herself scarce. Also, wasn't she heading out for dinner when she came by Roni's with Lucy? But the guys were obviously well into their evening out, when they'd gone beyond playing video games and chatting to them hanging out and playing pool, so how long were Sabine and Jacinda waiting for a table?

2 hours ago, kili said:

I was hoping that Nick wasn't the killer because he seemed like an interesting character, but I figured he would be because it is too late to add a new character. As soon as Gretel mentioned Hansel was troubled, I knew Nick would turn out to be Hansel.

It struck me later that they're doing their usual trick of making the victim into the villain. Unless they're doing a weird twist on Hansel and Gretel, the kids were barely escaping a witch who planned to eat them. That would definitely have an effect on them and make them suspicious of witches. Meanwhile, this coven seems to be bad news. You have to be willing to murder to get in it, and they were willing to murder Henry to get the curse cast. The people he's been killing are bad people. Not that going around in a mask and murdering people is good, but they're setting this up like he's a terrible serial killer although he was a victim of one of these people (presumably) and these are bad people. Also, how would he end up with burned arms but not burned hands from shoving the witch into the oven?

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

You did miss an extra scene in the police station.  After Rogers leaves to go to the market, another police officer comes up with a surveillance photo of "the missing girl" (aka Anastasia) in front of a restaurant.  

I did see that part. I guess I just didn't connect the dots between the picture of Anastasia at a restaurant and Weaver in a burned-out building. Did we see the burning happen or has Anastasia been going around burning things offscreen? There's so much about this season that's a blur to me because I'm not caring very much. Why pay close attention when the things that seem important will just be whisked away a few episodes later. Drizella is a good parallel to the Evil Queen story -- she has a change of heart, drops her evil scheme, and skips off to be happy in another world without actually fixing the things she messed up. And I guess Anastasia didn't care to see her stepsister. Did she even see Jacinda/Ella? Or ask about her? She was the older sister before she "died," so she was closer in age to Ella. She "died" saving Ella's life, but it didn't seem like she knew or cared whether Ella was alive or dead.

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I did see that part. I guess I just didn't connect the dots between the picture of Anastasia at a restaurant and Weaver in a burned-out building. Did we see the burning happen or has Anastasia been going around burning things offscreen?

You know what?  I had the same confusion.  I didn't even know he was at that restaurant until he started talking.  It seemed out of nowhere that Anastasia would be randomly destroying buildings for several episodes.  Then again, they never even indicated that Anastasia had run away until Gothel said "I don't know where she is any more than you do" or whatever she said to Drizella.  

Quote

It struck me later that they're doing their usual trick of making the victim into the villain. Unless they're doing a weird twist on Hansel and Gretel, the kids were barely escaping a witch who planned to eat them. That would definitely have an effect on them and make them suspicious of witches. Meanwhile, this coven seems to be bad news. You have to be willing to murder to get in it, and they were willing to murder Henry to get the curse cast. The people he's been killing are bad people. Not that going around in a mask and murdering people is good, but they're setting this up like he's a terrible serial killer although he was a victim of one of these people (presumably) and these are bad people. Also, how would he end up with burned arms but not burned hands from shoving the witch into the oven?

That didn't dawn on me either until you said it.  This show has really done a number on our minds.  But yeah, it's basically taking Percival to the next level.  How would he know to frame Alice?  

Edited March 31, 2018 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

14 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Then again, they never even indicated that Anastasia had run away until Gothel said "I don't know where she is any more than you do" or whatever she said to Drizella.  

I thought Gothel was lying to Drizella for some reason during that scene. But upon further reflection, it's obvious that Drizella knew Gothel was holding Anastasia.

Quote

You know what?  I had the same confusion.  I didn't even know he was at that restaurant until he started talking.  It seemed out of nowhere that Anastasia would be randomly destroying buildings for several episodes. 

We seem to be missing episodes or scenes this season. Stuff happens offscreen but the show acts like we should have known about it.

Edited March 31, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

When did this flashback take place?  While Trepunzel was missing?  

[Rumsy4]

35 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

And I guess Anastasia didn't care to see her stepsister. Did she even see Jacinda/Ella? Or ask about her? She was the older sister before she "died," so she was closer in age to Ella. She "died" saving Ella's life, but it didn't seem like she knew or cared whether Ella was alive or dead.

I forgot that Ella was her stepsister. I have a feeling the writers did too. 

29 minutes ago, Camera One said:

How would he know to frame Alice?  

Unless Gothel was the one framing Alice. It's hard to imagine Nick tailing Tilly and framing her for his serial murders.

17 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

We seem to be missing episodes or scenes this season. Stuff happens offscreen but the show acts like we should have known about it.

Are they still shooting more material than they need for each episode? If so, the missing scenes may be ones getting the chop for lack of time.

[Camera One]

"Once Upon a Time" Jeopardy time.

This was the episode Weaver was quoting from when he said, "As my wife used to say, wandering another path often leads us where we need to go."

[Shanna Marie]

53 minutes ago, Camera One said:

When did this flashback take place?  While Trepunzel was missing?  

I think it was after Regina taught Drizella magic without checking to make sure she was moderately sane, which was soon after Regina and WHook joined up with Henry. So this seemed to have been between the misguided magic lessons, telling Drizella about the Dark Curse, and her murdering the prince and Drizella showing up and making her "prophecy" and being turned to stone.

The next time I go on a girls' night out, it's nice to know that I don't have to stick with my friends while they wait for a table (with what must have been a really long wait). I should just ditch them and go hang out at the bar next door until they text me that our table is ready. Why would I want to actually hang out with the friends I'm going out on the town with?

56 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Unless Gothel was the one framing Alice. It's hard to imagine Nick tailing Tilly and framing her for his serial murders.

Yeah, I think Gothel knows who it is and was framing Alice. Though I'm not sure why she'd want to get in the way of a threat to her group being caught.

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

When did this flashback take place?  While Trepunzel was missing?  

I think it was after Regina taught Drizella magic without checking to make sure she was moderately sane, which was soon after Regina and WHook joined up with Henry.

I think @Camera One was asking about young Drizella and Ana, when they were playing hide and seek. It must have been when Trepunzel was missing. 

Edited March 31, 2018 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I think @Camera One was asking about young Drizella and Ana, when they were playing hide and seek. It must have been when Trepunzel was missing. 

Oh, duh, I totally forgot about that flashback (what I get for watching at 7 a.m., barely awake). Yeah, I think it was when Trepunzel was missing. So Anastasia did the lantern thing to help Drizella find her, and Drizella then used them to send signals to their missing mother, and nobody thought to mention that all this time.

Though now that I think about it, I remember being confused at first because I forgot that Anastasia was the oldest daughter but got stuck at that age by being mostly dead while Drizella grew up. And then Drizella was frozen in stone for eight years and didn't age during that time, but then again, neither did anyone else other than Lucy.

[Camera One]

8 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Young Drizella and Ana, when they were playing hide and seek. It must have been when Trepunzel was missing. 

I was curious about Drizella telling Victoria that it was her idea to use the lanterns.  Let me get this straight... Anastasia knew about this lantern trick all along and thought of using it to find Drizella, but she didn't think of using it to find their mother?

[superloislane]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

It struck me later that they're doing their usual trick of making the victim into the villain. Unless they're doing a weird twist on Hansel and Gretel, the kids were barely escaping a witch who planned to eat them. That would definitely have an effect on them and make them suspicious of witches.

I didn't watch this episode at all but I read the thread to see what was happening on the show these days and I see they're messing with Hansel and Gretel now. There is an entire movie called Hansel and Gretel: Witch Hunters which plays on the idea that after they killed the first witch who kidnapped them, they became experts at killing witches and now get hired to do it as adults and they were very much the heroes of that movie. I see here they were made to be the bad guys.

[Rumsy4]

12 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I was curious about Drizella telling Victoria that it was her idea to use the lanterns.  Let me get this straight... Anastasia knew about this lantern trick all along and thought of using it to find Drizella, but she didn't think of using it to find their mother?

Unless this was after their mother disappeared, and they had just started sending up actual lanterns. So, Ana just conjured up magic ones when they got lost in the woods. Does it even matter? The writers think they're very clever to reuse the lantern motif. That was the only reason for it. :-p

Edited March 31, 2018 by Rumsy4

[statsgirl]

22 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Nick is obviously Hansel.

Obvious that a blind man is a snowstorm could see it as soon as Gretel said her brother was damaged.  (Nice to see Sara Canning and have her help raise the quality of the acting on the s how.) 

The combination of obvious steps and yet illogical writing is one of the two things that are making this season a fail.  The other is the the problematic casting of the characters of Henry and Jacinta and their anti-chemistry.  The original actors were compelling, love them or hate them.  I wanted Snow and Charming to be happy, I wanted Regina and Rumple to face retribution, I got too involved in shipping Emma/Hook and hoping she picks him over Neal for a woman of my age.

With Jacinta and Henry, I honestly couldn't care less if they ever get together. I'm bored whenever they are on screen.

I'm going to miss Adelaide Kane.  I didn't like Ivy, but Kane is a good actress.

Edited April 1, 2018 by statsgirl

[Shanna Marie]

I wonder if JaNiSel knows Drizella killed his sister and that Gothel (and the coven) set it up. That would certainly explain the murder spree beyond just hating witches in general. And in the tradition of this show, the person who killed Gretel got away with no ramifications and gets to live a happy life with her sister. Granted, in her case (unlike Regina's) the killing was in self defense because Gretel was trying to kill her, too.

[Camera One]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

And in the tradition of this show, the person who killed Gretel got away with no ramifications and gets to live a happy life with her sister. 

And in the tradition of this show, the person who killed Gretel got away with no ramifications and gets to live a happy life with someone she had just tried to kill/sacrifice 15 minutes ago.

What are Drizella and Anastasia going to talk about?

ANASTASIA: So Drizella, tell me everything.  What happened after I fell through the ice?

DRIZELLA: Well, Mom killed Dad and then told Ella that the Prince did it so she went to murder him but Mom stabbed him in the back to frame her and then I murdered my fiancé to get back at Mom.  I also tried to poison Ella and Henry's hearts so they could never be together.  Don't worry; it's not that bad.  Mom did it too, to Ella's mother.  And to enact the Dark Curse, I was forced to kill or be killed, so I killed Gretel.  Anyway, right before the Curse, Gothel and I basically gave Henry a death sentence if the Curse ever broke, and the only source of magic in Hyperion Heights was you so now who knows what they're all going to do.  Let's see... what else... I killed this informant guy in Hyperion Heights.  I tried to cuff and steal all your magic but you already know that.  But that's breakcrumbs considering I was willing to let you die so I could live back there, LOL.  And I almost forgot, back in the Enchanted Forest, Mom tore off the wings of a fairy godmother and we later killed her.  But don't blame Mom too much since she mostly did all this to resurrect you. 

ANASTASIA: It's my fault.  I should never have tried to save Ella when she fell through the ice.

DRIZELLA: I forgive you.  Wow, that was cathartic.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

I know there was a throw away line about Regina telling Ivy that she was safe there at the bar, but that is a bit of a plot hole to me.

I wondered if Samdi had placed a protection charm over the bar and I had missed it. It was very odd when Regina claimed the bar was safe.

2 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

Are these villains geniuses with psychic abilities or what?

If the Genie could retroactively create a Wish Realm with real people with real history, anything is possible by magic and hand-waving.

[Camera One]

50 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

It was very odd when Regina claimed the bar was safe.

The reasoning is probably, serial killers don't strike in crowded places?

[Rumsy4]

22 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The reasoning is probably, serial killers don't strike in crowded places?

I guess...

[KingOfHearts]

27 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The reasoning is probably, serial killers don't strike in crowded places?

Maybe Regina suspected it was Facilier and thought he wouldn't do such a thing in her bar...? Without headcanon, it's probably a case of Regina thinking she's powerful enough to protect someone from a serial killer because she's a Mills. We all know Mills are strong, independent women who will do anything to help someone in need. And you know, the power of HOPE.

Edited April 1, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[twoods]

So I guess my Henry/Ivy ship isn’t officially dead? I was still hoping on the chance that Jacinda would go far away and Henry’s happy ending was with Drizella. Blah.

Double blah with Nick being a killer. Not cool, writers. 

[KingOfHearts]

Honestly, this episode offended me so much. I was really pulling for Drizella, then her character got assassinated brutally. Henry and Jacinda are easily the worst couple in TV history, yet we've got to waste time watching them ogle each other with zero chemistry. Nick being the serial killer is completely contrived and totally ruins any respect I had for his character. I thought the Lucy/Regina plot could be interesting, but this episode proved it's not even about them. It's about this guy group that hasn't existed until just now. Gothel is a complete idiot and isn't worthy to be on the same list as Pan, Cora, or Cruella. Like Rumple, her motivations are vague and she doesn't do anything smart. The writers want us to think she's too clever beyond our comprehension as she makes decisions that dumbstruck us. Not even Alice or WHook is enough to pull me in any more. They're barely there and we all know how it's going to turn out. At least in S1, you know Emma and Mary Margaret reuniting wouldn't be the end of their story. There was a juicy extra layer of conflict, but here we're just waiting for the damn curse to break. The poisoned heart thing is way too artificial.

This show just gets me too angry. I'm quitting. It was nice knowing y'all.

[Rumsy4]

3 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

And she was dressed like she was still working under the food truck. I don't know who was doing her make up, but she looked tired

It's like the costume department was going out of their way to make her look underwhelming and her entrance anticlimactic.

6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

This show just gets me too angry. I'm quitting. It was nice knowing y'all.

But...but... @KingOfHearts You can't leave us now!! We all survived Season 6. Season 7 can't get worse...

[KingOfHearts]

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

But...but... @KingOfHearts You can't leave us now!! We all survived Season 6. Season 7 can't get worse...

I'm kidding. Happy April Fools. ;)

We're all in A&E's hell, and there's no escaping now. We'll survive through the power of FRIENDSHIP... no wait, wrong show. I mean HOPE.

Edited April 1, 2018 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

16 hours ago, Camera One said:

And in the tradition of this show, the person who killed Gretel got away with no ramifications and gets to live a happy life with someone she had just tried to kill/sacrifice 15 minutes ago.

There really are a lot of parallels between Drizella and Regina, aren't there? Both cursed an entire society because they were mad at one person. Both had plans to do something awful that got thwarted, and then because they were willing to "sacrifice" themselves after their plans were thwarted and they ended up in jeopardy, they get totally forgiven and face no further repercussions for all the evil they did.

So I guess the moral of the story is that anyone who kills or goes after someone who actually did wrong to them is bad, but if you harm huge groups of people who are utterly unrelated to your issues as a way of getting vengeance on one person, that can be forgiven.

And I can't believe this show is making me sympathize with a serial killer. But when you think about what's going on with him and who he's going after, it's like "well, he has a point, I guess." Meanwhile, we've got Ivy getting sent off to have a happy ending with her sister, with Regina's blessing, in spite of the fact that she's the one who got them all in this mess because she was mad at her mother.

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

This show just gets me too angry. I'm quitting. It was nice knowing y'all.

I'm sorry Dearie, but once you're in this Coven, there's no leaving it.  

[Rumsy4]

15 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm kidding. Happy April Fools. ;)

:-p You got me. hehe

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I'm sorry Dearie, but once you're in this Coven, there's no leaving it.  

Unless the Candy Killer gets you. Muahaha.