S01.E05: First Shot a Winner, Lads

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

A strange illness begins to show itself while another more familiar one jeopardizes the expedition's most valuable resource - its captain's judgment.

 

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder; please limit discussion in this topic to the episode, and take discussion of the actual story or any book related talk to the "True Story of the Frankllin Expedition" topic. Thank you!

[peridot]

The shit has really hit the fan now.  Seeing the monster up close was terrifying!

So we finally got confirmation the monster was bonded to the Inuit man.  It's interesting the monster avenged the man's disrespectful burial.

I'm surprised Hickey's ex was willing to talk to him, the man shit in his bed.  I'm glad the surgeon didn't fall for Hickey's obvious attempt at getting information.

Seeing all the primitive surgeries almost made me hurl.  The amputation at the end had me turning away from the screen.

I like this episode best so far, it had more humor and we could understand the characters better.
 

[patty1h]

After Lady Silence left, Goodsir went to her room and seemed to be looking for something, then picked something between two fingers - what was that?  Crozier stepped down because he was going to be "unwell". Is he losing it or going to try to wean himself off the booze and realizes it's going to be a hard road?

The "bear" is not that scary looking; I think I expected something more supernatural and wendigo-like.   Also, is the redhead trying to woo his BF back with jewelry?

Edited April 17, 2018 by patty1h

[tennisgurl]

Amputations with bone-saws are just the nastiest thing ever. With people getting frost bite left and right, I guess I will have to prepare myself for more of that, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. Gross! Still better than the flogging last week though. 

Interesting conversation with Lady Silence, and we find out that while she has some connection to The Beast, she cant control it. Her dad could, but she cant, or at least, she cant yet. Maybe she was training for it, and thats why she and her dad lived all alone? I also love how she basically just said that they should leave, because this is all clearly a shit show. Granted, I dont know how much of an option that is at this point, but I think the greater point is, why did they come here? Yeah the trade route and Rule Britania, but...was coming out here to the frozen ends of the Earth and risking their lives really worth that much? To stick a flag on some ice, and maybe get from one to place another faster? They clearly had no idea what they were getting into when they came out here, and now they've been forced to commit to something they really had no idea what they were doing. 

The doctor bonding with Lady Silence was nice, as was him trying to pick up more of her language. He seems like a really sweet, well meaning sort of person. I was a bit surprised that Crozier spoke her language reasonably well. Speaking of, Crozier needs to lay off the sauce. Its really not doing his command any favors. Good thing it sounds like he realized that too. 

I do increasingly feel bad for Crozier. He knows he can never really advance very far in his station due to being Irish, his girlfriend wouldn't marry him because of it, and now he is stuck commanding a clearly failing mission, when he pretty much wants to crawl onto the ice and die. 

I bet the monster can shape shift, and we have only seen a tiny sliver of it. Creepy freaking thing though. I wonder if its natural form is more of an ice wendigo or something? I also kind of cracked up when she said it was a spirit, and Crozier was instantly like "For the love of God, that word doesn't leave this room!", as he knows no way could that end well. The crew is on edge enough as it is, and a bunch of wanna be ghost busters freezing to death running around with firearms can only end in bad. 

[SimoneS]

So it is a mutant bear. I changed the channel during the amputation.

The Inuit woman thinks that Crozier wants to die. Is she right? If she is, I am disappointed. I thought that he would fight to the end.

The food looks spoilt which is why Goodsir was testing it on the poor monkey.

[slothgirl]

If anyone didn't already love Goodsir, didn't you just want to cheer when he saw right through Hickey's "charm"? 

"Does this actually work on anyone?" Hee!

I'm afraid for Goodsir though. We had two scenes of him being snarky, which according to the one with the "real" doctor, is out of character. (when he asks if the doctor had EVER been invited to a wedding)  Perhaps his brain is also being affected by something. Or maybe the situation is making him bolder because he has less reason or inclination to remain meek in the face of disaster.

I have so much more respect now for Crozier. I already liked him as a character, but now that he's turned over command to someone he doesn't like or respect because it's the right thing to do while he goes through withdrawal.. plus thinking through so many possibilities to cover (like making sure to give his sidearm to someone else)... yeah.. Crozier's the man. He's set it up that his crew doesn't have to mutiny to take control from him. In a way, it reminded me of Bartlett standing down in TWW when he knew he couldn't make the best decisions for the country while his kidnapped daughter was a factor.

The amputation reminded me of the scene from Gone With The Wind when Scarlett flees her nurse duties as a soldier undergoes an amputation without any morphine because it is all gone. The horror is shielded behind a screen where it is all in sillouette, and we primarily see her reaction and no actual gore. It's the mere thought of it that affects us, not the sight of it.

What were the bead like things that Goodsir found after Lady S left?

I liked seeing the creature finally.

If you have On Demand, select the show, and below the available episodes, there is a series of shorts that include interviews with actors about various scenes. In one of them, the actor playing Hickey describes how he interprets the change in Hickey in the last 2 eps, and why it's come about. Watchign it made me appreciate his acting in the last ep much more, even if I think he's a little "moustache twirling" in this one for my taste. He LOOKS so obviously conniving with his sideways, smug gaze, that I can't believe everyone doesn't see through him right off the bat.

Edited April 17, 2018 by slothgirl

[AuntiePam]

Minor nitpick: If we're going to hear wind howling, shouldn't we also see some things blowing around?  Nothing is moving.  Some things, like the ship's sails and rigging, are probably frozen stiff, but what about the men's caps?  I'm not seeing any chin straps holding them on.

Question about the language:  Are we hearing two different native languages?  Esqimeaux and Lady Silence's language?  Crozier speaks fluently in one language but needs Goodsir to translate in the other. 

[patty1h]

That sailor who was afraid to go below with the dead body because he hears the dead ones singing... cabin fever, reaction to the bad food or Inuit spirits haunting him?

[AuntiePam]

10 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

What were the bead like things that Goodsir found after Lady S left?

According to the AV Club reviewer, they were pieces of lead from the food tins.  She was using them as pencil nibs to draw on the wall.

[slothgirl]

10 minutes ago, AuntiePam said:

 

Question about the language:  Are we hearing two different native languages?  Esqimeaux and Lady Silence's language?  Crozier speaks fluently in one language but needs Goodsir to translate in the other. 

Lady Silence' language is Inuktitut. So it does seem that we are getting 2.

9 minutes ago, patty1h said:

That sailor who was afraid to go below with the dead body because he hears the dead ones singing... cabin fever, reaction to the bad food or Inuit spirits haunting him?

Or maybe just a general tendency towards superstition? Traditionally, there were a lot of stupid superstitions among sailors. I'm surprised that they didn't all go nuts over having a woman aboard even without her controlling some rabid beast-bear. Maybe they aren't worried about milk curdling at freezing temps. (wink)

On the other hand, how can they all NOT have cabin fever? I'VE got cabin fever waiting for this stupid winter here in my area to go away for real, and I actually do go out in the world even though we just had, I kid you not, SNOW again. Arrgg. And I'm not stuck for years in a cramped space with too many people and too little food.. and too much cold. I guess since voyages were always long in those days, and over-wintering was common, that they're somewhat prepared for that. But they're in the 2nd over-winter now, and I'd think they'd all be a little nuts, hearing and seeing things.

Edited April 17, 2018 by slothgirl

[Paws]

I liked the scene of FitzJames (Or whatever Tobias Menzies characters name is) doing the inspections and insisting on them keeping up appearances. That kind of thing is incredibly important to keep people from going nuts. (but also...it’s pointless. They’re all gonna die. Ah, silly man, so optimistic)

So the nice blonde doctor on the one ship (Edith’s fiance from Downton) and the asshole doctor on the other ship look too much alike. In fact all these white guys together make it very difficult to keep track of who’s who. This is what happened to me during Band of Brothers and it was only upon the rewatch that I could  track of all the guys and their names.

Edited April 17, 2018 by Paws

[thuganomics85]

Damn, that got intense!  I honestly thought Blanky/Ian Hart was a goner there.  Glad that he isn't, although he did have to get his leg amputated.  Which, of course, back then meant basically let taking a few swings of whiskey, biting down on a piece of wood, and letting the doctors go to town on your leg with a bone-saw.  Life was rough back then!

Glad Francis is finally addressing his issues with alcohol and is turning leadership over to Fitzjames, until he can hopefully quit cold turkey.  It was clearly effecting how he runs things and how the crew looked upon him.  Jared Harris was fantastic in his final scene in this episode.

Lady Silence has bailed again.  I definitely don't think she's controlling the creature, but I still suspect she knows more then she's letting on.

Goodsir getting a bit snarky was fun.  I still worry for him the most, since he seems like the most decent person on this show.  That usually never ends well for them.

[Sighed I]

Another great episode. I haven't been this riveted by a TV show since Breaking Bad ended. I wasn't sure I could watch this series, becoming attached to the characters, knowing from the onset they're all doomed. I'm so glad I gave it a shot. Yes, I do care about many of them, including minor or supporting characters, quite a bit more than I expected, actually. Yes, I feel a twist of dread in the pit of my stomach every week. And yet, I have to know what happens to these people. Well done, show; I applaud you. ;)

Random thoughts:

Based on Crozier & Company's conversation with Lady Silence about Tuunbaq, I'm wondering if she followed the creature because since it's injured, it may give her an opportunity to "bind" herself to it, or at least establish a relationship, while it's in a weakened state. If she can manage that, she might be able to influence it, if not control it. Given the Prologue in episode 1, it doesn't sound like she's successful in the end, but at this point in the story, I think that may be her intention.

As if I didn't need another reason to love Mr. Goodsir, he calls out Dr. Stanley and Cornelius in delightfully blunt ways: "Has anyone ever invited you to a wedding, Dr. Stanley?" and "Does that really work with anyone, Mr. Hickey?" LOL! I've wanted to smack Dr. Stanley upside the head since the first episode. I think Harry's newfound cheekiness has to do with his growing confidence as he gains more experience, coupled with the stress of their situation putting everyone on edge.

I enjoyed watching Lady Silence nail Crozier. I love the man, but he needed to hear that! Maybe the burgeoning friendship between her and Mr. Goodsir has built up both their courage.

I'm so relieved Crozier's finally going to dry out. I'm just sorry it took Blanky having to lose his leg before he saw the light. With his extensive polar experience, I was thinking/hoping Blanky'd be among the last survivors, but with a missing leg, he won't be going anywhere should they abandon ship. :( I thought he was a goner tonight. The cat and mouse game with Tuunbaq had me on the edge of my seat. Great teamwork on everyone's part.

I understand they need to differentiate between characters, but when it's 52 below and you're talking about exploding teeth, it makes it challenging to suspend disbelief watching our characters outside with fingerless gloves (or none at all!), not having at least part of their faces covered, wearing improper headwear for the elements (or not securing the ones that are). For the most part the show does an incredible job of making you feel the cold, but little details like the above in some scenes, takes me out of the story a bit.

Something is going on with Lt. Little. For the past two episodes he's seemed on the verge of...something. Whatever it is, he's losing his grip. On the one hand he seems fairly loyal to Crozier, on the other he appears on the verge of mutiny, or a nervous breakdown.

Gibson is dickmatized. That's the only explanation I can come up with for allowing himself to be charmed and manipulated by the very man who SHIT IN HIS BED.

As if cutting off a guy's frostbitten toes and the flesh tearing off Tozer's (?) hand weren't enough, we break out the bone saw (I had to look away). Scary thing is, we know it's only going to get worse...

Edited April 17, 2018 by Sighed I

[slothgirl]

When I watched the repeat airing, I was remionded of how much the creature looks like a sloth in the scene where he is on the mast. It's like some cross (physically, not tempermentally) between a polar bear and a sloth so I'm going to call it a giant polar sloth, Hee... I like it and finally getting to see it.

I think Lady S simply took advantage of the confusion in order to escape. Or maybe even to care for the beast. But mostly I thought her motivation was primarily to be away from the sailors, not to be with the Rabid Giant Polar Sloth. She's got to know that she's not as safe on the Terror as she was on the other ship (the name of which is always right out of reach for me and I want to call it the Enigma... but I know that isn't right)

Edited April 17, 2018 by slothgirl

[Sighed I]

5 minutes ago, slothgirl said:

I think Lady S simply took advantage of the confusion in order to escape. Or maybe even to care for the beast. But mostly I thought her motivation was primarily to be away from the sailors, not to be with the Rabid Giant Polar Sloth. She's got to know that she's not as safe on the Terror as she was on the other ship (the name of which is always right out of reach for me and I want to call it the Enigma... but I know that isn't right)

When Crozier and his men were questioning Lady Silence, Goodsir mentioned she hadn't tried to escape or even mentioned leaving during the month she was on Erebus. As Blanky said, she's scared of Tuunbaq too. That's why I think it may be more than her simply escaping the ship. Whether it has anything to do with directly helping these men or not, to me it seems like she feels some sense of responsibility for this creature, or getting it under control somehow.

[shrewd.buddha]

Between clipping off frostbitten toes and amputations without anesthesia, this show really keeps up the squirm factor.

I lost what little sympathy I had for Hickey (whipping boy) when he gave the ring he apparently took from the dead boy to his former tryst partner. Hickey is a real schemer.  I'm guessing the ring will get recognized by Goodsir (who regretted forgetting to collect it to give to the boy's sister) - - and the guy wearing it will not know he was set up by the vengeful Hickey.
It is not as if they don't have enough problems with bad food, bad weather, demon bear, alcoholic captain, resentful second-in-command, and ice crushing the ship... 

[SoSueMe]

A really intense episode. I am loving Goodsir and also the doctor on the Terror. It would have taken enormous courage for Francis to set up his own intervention and detox. The acting is superb. Actually seeing the monster/bear was a little disappointing for me, though. It was not as scary as the image I had conjured in my mind, not even a "bear" necessarily. I agree with @slothgirl , it does have that stretched out, extended look to it. I remember the carved ivory figure that Lady Silence's father owned had the same look. The subplot with Hickey has just got to spell trouble somewhere down the line. 

[Dowel Jones]

8 hours ago, Sighed I said:

For the most part the show does an incredible job of making you feel the cold,

You got that right.  I have taken to wearing sweat pants while watching late at night.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

I think that monkey is a goner.

For dramatic purposes, probably yes, but in real life, animals seem to get away with anything.  That's not a rationale for pointless dumping of food outdoors, for the record.

[Ohwell]

I'm a little confused about the canned food.  Wouldn't it be preserved even more in the cold weather?

[slothgirl]

8 hours ago, Sighed I said:

When Crozier and his men were questioning Lady Silence, Goodsir mentioned she hadn't tried to escape or even mentioned leaving during the month she was on Erebus. As Blanky said, she's scared of Tuunbaq too. That's why I think it may be more than her simply escaping the ship. Whether it has anything to do with directly helping these men or not, to me it seems like she feels some sense of responsibility for this creature, or getting it under control somehow.

She wouldn't have felt as threatened by the men on Erebus. They originally moved her there because of the people on Terror who would want to hurt her. When Fitz said to send her back to Terror, his mates tried to talk him out of it because she's be in more danger there. Erebus also had far more people on it, and a watchful captain who was maintaining order. They also took her stuff from her every day, although I admit I didn't quite get that part. (the timing or the point of it, and it didn't look like they put it where she couldn't get to it

I also wasn't clear on whether they had had any problems or visits from the beast while Lady S was on Erebus. They aren't doing a very good job explaining the passage of time on this show, or at least, I'm not picking up on it. They've been there a year now. It really doesn't seem like it, and I think I only know that from watching the interview clips On Demand. Any mentions of time passage are getting lost in everything else for me.

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Interesting that they did not try and stop the girl from escaping.

No one except Crozier saw her escaping... he was up on the mast and had a view the others didn't. The others who had contact with her never thought she would WANT to escape.. they were the ones who objected to putting her off and letting the beast get her. The rest of them were a little preoccupied at the time.

IMO, she doesn't care a whit about these sailors or the beast harming them, and why would she? They killed her father, kidnapped her, kept her prisoner, and as she says when Corzier is interviewing her, as a culture they use the wind and forest and have no respect for either.

I also don't think she is afraid of the beast... not in the way the Brits are. She has a healthy respect for it and what it is capable of. She said (but that was last year) that it won't obey her. But it also probably won't harm her since it has shown to be a protector by bringing her food.

Since I think the beast is a metaphor, I'm tempted (but don't have time) to see if the beast's appearances are all preceded by something specific. Has it ever attacked Erebus? Why is coma guy still alive? Why did the guy in this episode talk about feeling connected to it and marrying it? It was more than bravado facing his injuries I think. I keep reminding myself not to take everything about the beast as literally as I would if it were a real bear. What (or who!) is the beast really?

10 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm a little confused about the canned food.  Wouldn't it be preserved even more in the cold weather?

good point... once they noticed that some of the food was rotted int he tins, wouldn't it have made sense to move it to a cold spot? Of course, it was probably rotted before they ever got there given how long it would have taken them just to get to Canada. I also don't think it ALL rotted because I seem to recall them saying something about SOME of the food apparently wasn't sealed correctly.

[Sighed I]

33 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm a little confused about the canned food.  Wouldn't it be preserved even more in the cold weather?

It may be the improperly canned food was bad long before they got there, perhaps some of it even before they left England.

Speaking of food, that slop in a can Goodsir fed Jacko just about made me hurl. Not saying it wouldn't be positively mouth-watering if one were on the brink of starvation, but from the comfort of my warm, well-stocked home, ewwww. I do think Jacko is Goodsir's guinea pig, poor little girl. I wonder how long it will take for any symptoms to show? She's much, much smaller than the men, but it's taken years before they started showing obvious symptoms.

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I also don't think she is afraid of the beast... not in the way the Brits are. She has a healthy respect for it and what it is capable of. She said (but that was last year) that it won't obey her. But it also probably won't harm her since it has shown to be a protector by bringing her food.

I don't think she's afraid of Tuunbaq in the way the Brits are either. I suspect the creature wouldn't outright attack her (for now), but I do think she's afraid of its power. It reminds me a little of someone taming a tiger. You might be able to train him to do your bidding, but never turn your back on him. Maybe it's one of those things where if she doesn't get a handle on Tuunbaq now, it could gain even more power until it does end up turning on her and her people. I agree she probably doesn't care about the sailors, aside from Goodsir, but I got the impression her father was in the middle of teaching her to "control" or "moderate" the beast when the Brits showed up and everything went to hell.

[iMonrey]

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I'm a little confused about the canned food.  Wouldn't it be preserved even more in the cold weather?

The problem isn't preservation, it's been tainted by poison. Doesn't matter if it's warm or cold - the cold isn't going to counteract poison. Whatever they soldered the cans with has seeped into the food.

Does Tobias Menzies ever play nice people?

[raven]

16 hours ago, Sighed I said:

I thought he was a goner tonight. The cat and mouse game with Tuunbaq had me on the edge of my seat. Great teamwork on everyone's part.

Me as well.  Blanky was pretty resilient, hanging in there (literally) until the guys got the cannon going.

8 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I hope he didn't turn that monkey into a guinea pig, but I am afraid that is exactly what he has done.  Now whether that was intentional or not, I don't know. 

I think he definitely was intentionally using the monkey as a guinea pig.  He had spoken with the other doctor about lead and was testing his theory. 

Drunken, sad Crozier can still get his ass up to bring Mr. Blanky down.  He still has to be captain even when drinking.  I have respect for him, knowing he's about to go through hell but needing to dry out and telling the other officers about it. 

I thought Hickey was bribing the other guy with the ring since he told him to keep his ears open; he wants to know what the officers are talking about.

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The problem isn't preservation, it's been tainted by poison. Doesn't matter if it's warm or cold - the cold isn't going to counteract poison. Whatever they soldered the cans with has seeped into the food.

Ah, ok, so it's  lead poison.  I forgot about that. 

37 minutes ago, raven said:

I thought Hickey was bribing the other guy with the ring since he told him to keep his ears open; he wants to know what the officers are talking about.

The other guy seems kinda stupid.  I mean, the guy shit in his bed.  Now that I think about it, I think it was quite fitting for Hickey to get his ass whipped.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Ohwell

[raven]

35 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

The other guy seems kinda stupid. 

I think he's a little simple and easily manipulated, plus one of those people who will be all "aw, he didn't meant it".  

Not like Mr. Goodsir, who called Hickey out on his BS right away.

[maystone]

22 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Interesting conversation with Lady Silence, and we find out that while she has some connection to The Beast, she cant control it. Her dad could, but she cant, or at least, she cant yet. Maybe she was training for it, and thats why she and her dad lived all alone? I also love how she basically just said that they should leave, because this is all clearly a shit show. Granted, I dont know how much of an option that is at this point, but I think the greater point is, why did they come here? Yeah the trade route and Rule Britania, but...was coming out here to the frozen ends of the Earth and risking their lives really worth that much? To stick a flag on some ice, and maybe get from one to place another faster? They clearly had no idea what they were getting into when they came out here, and now they've been forced to commit to something they really had no idea what they were doing. 

I think that Crozier, Blanky, and another office whose name I can't remember had the experience and smarts to have avoided all of this tragedy. They were overruled by John Franklin (who had led a previous failed expedition) and Fitzjames who I think had no experience in this sort of adventuring. Crozier was clearly right about heading toward a shoreline and waiting for warmer weather, but pride and rank and class in the form of Franklin's command got them all killed. I wanted to throw something at the TV when Franklin said no to the plan.

I think most men joined the service for wealth and/or social advancement if they were in middle or upper class, or just for the money if they were working class. But yeah, Lady Silence had the right of it when she went off on them like that.

 

21 hours ago, slothgirl said:

If you have On Demand, select the show, and below the available episodes, there is a series of shorts that include interviews with actors about various scenes. In one of them, the actor playing Hickey describes how he interprets the change in Hickey in the last 2 eps, and why it's come about. Watching it made me appreciate his acting in the last ep much more, even if I think he's a little "moustache twirling" in this one for my taste. He LOOKS so obviously conniving with his sideways, smug gaze, that I can't believe everyone doesn't see through him right off the bat.

I don't have On Demand, but I'd love to hear the actors' takes on the show. If it's OK with the mods, could you post about it in the Spoilers and Speculation thread? I cannot get a handle on Hickey's character, so I'm really interested to hear about that one in particular.

Remember the little totems that the Brits found tucked into the hood that Lady Silence's grandfather (father?) wore? That they buried with him? I think those were crucial to binding Tuunbaq to the bearer. She was really distressed that the totems were gone, and I'd guess that's why she's pretty sure she can't control it or even really communicate with it. Also, I don't think anyone on the Terror is going to be calling that a polar bear anymore. Personally, I think it looks a lot like the alien creature from the movie Cloverfield, but still kind of cool.

I'm really loving this show. It's breaking my heart that everyone there is doomed.

[LittleIggy]

Mr. Blanky is a badass!

Bad timing for detox, bro. Told you to ration your booze.

Someone get Jacko a coat! That poor little monkey would be frozen by now. ☹️ BTW, she was Sir John’s pet so why was she on the Terror. Was she exiled there, too? What was Mr. Goodsir doing? He seems too kind to use her as a test subject. Well, at least the poor thing might die an easier death...?

Edited April 18, 2018 by LittleIggy

[jnymph]

Usually I loathe "monster/creature" type shows, but this one is really drawing me in.   

I feel like I'm on the ship with the doomed crew, cold, starving and terrified; yet I can't look away. 

[jaigurudeva]

At last, a name for the creature: tuunbaq. In Inuit religious belief, tuurngait (sing. tuurngaq) are non-human spirits that can be benevolent or malevolent. The tuurngait had their own free will, and could be benevolent or malevolent, but the angakkuq (Inuit spiritual leaders, like shamans) could call on good tuurngait for aid (like spirit guides or ensuring a good hunt/fishing), or manipulate or exorcise evil ones. The role of angakkuq was passed often from parent to child, and both men and women could be an angakkuq.

From this, it's possible Lady Silence's father was in the area of the creature as an angakkuq trying to either call on it or banish it, and he brought her along to also teach her as his successor. This is why she knows about the creature, but is not ready to command or exorcise it. On Erebus, the totems she was carving could have been meant to keep the tuurngaq away. But seeing the totems she drew on the walls on Terror after her interrogation, might she have brought the beast to them to make her own escape?

I hope that, after all this goes inevitably, completely wrong, some of the men (okay, just my favorite characters like Goodsir and Blanky) live to maybe assimilate with Lady Silence's tribe. I know that's probably not gonna happen, but it's just a sliver of hope I can hold on to while we watch their deteriorating situation.

[Captanne]

That is an awesome understanding and explanation of the Tuunbaq myth.  Thanks!

I watched the episode (okay, I read the subtitles) last night and really enjoyed it.  The show is coming together for me and I do wholly attribute that to the subtitles.

I have to admit that I did politely inform the crew that, if they would just pull all the teeth on the Tuunbaq, then Christmas would still happen, Santa would still be able to drive the sleigh, and Rudolph would help steer with his nose.

[blank stare]

[proserpina65]

Okay, so not scurvy, but apparently lead poisoning on an unusual level, even for that era.  Poor monkey!

I found the creature both scary and kind of adorable.  That's weird, right?

Oh man, I was shouting "Not Ian Hart!  He's a good guy!" at the tv.  Like he and Mr. Goodsir are going to survive somehow.  That amputation was the most brutal thing I've seen so far on this show.

I'm with that one guy - I wouldn't want to go down to the hold where they're storing the dead bodies.  I'm bracing myself for them to become zombies or something.  Or maybe his talk about the sailors hearing the dead is a sign of them suffering from botulism for the poorly canned food?  Hell, maybe the creature is just a manifestation of that, and they're really just killing each other.

Please Lady Silence - ask the creature to spare Mr. Goodsir!

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 12:31 AM, AuntiePam said:

According to the AV Club reviewer, they were pieces of lead from the food tins.  She was using them as pencil nibs to draw on the wall.

Ah, so that's what made Mr. Goodsir decide to test the food on the poor monkey!  I wondered about that.

[Earlwoode]

On 17/04/2018 at 3:11 AM, peridot said:

Seeing the monster up close was terrifying!

Really?  I thought it was just a CGI version of a polar bear, lol.  Not scary at all and the fact that it climbed up the mast after Blanky just had me rolling my eyes - it required a lot of suspended belief.   And then it gets hit by a lantern and catches fire and the cannon knocks it down?  They should really make up their minds if this is a supernatural being or just a polar bear on steroids.

 

I gotta say I sympathise even less with Crozier now.  He's a totally irresponsible drunk who has a very big mean streak in him.  He sent poor Blanky outside just out of spite.  No respect or sympathy for him now.  That said, that is my opinion of Crozier - Jared Harris is doing a fantastic job with the character though.  Great performance.  And I know this is unpopular  but I really, really like Hickey.  He seems to be the only intelligent member of the crew who realises they are pretty much doomed and heck, if I were him I'd totally want to know what the officers are doing to get them out of there too.  I've read a few interviews with the guy who plays Hickey who said his character in the series is meant to be very different from the cardboard cutout villain in the book (which I'd never heard of much less read) so maybe that is why he gets my sympathies.   I just love his sneaky smirk, lol!

 

http://home.bt.com/images/the-terror-amc-136425855760302601

[MaryMatts]

On 18/04/2018 at 12:48 AM, iMonrey said:

Does Tobias Menzies ever play nice people?

Yes.  Check out a movie from 2010 called Forget Me Not.  It's on Youtube.  Kind of heartbreaking though.  He also plays Frank Randall in Outlander who is a thoroughly nice guy as opposed to his villainous ancestor Black Jack Randall.  Claire treats him abominably.

[proserpina65]

On ‎04‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 4:38 AM, Sighed I said:

When Crozier and his men were questioning Lady Silence, Goodsir mentioned she hadn't tried to escape or even mentioned leaving during the month she was on Erebus. As Blanky said, she's scared of Tuunbaq too. That's why I think it may be more than her simply escaping the ship. Whether it has anything to do with directly helping these men or not, to me it seems like she feels some sense of responsibility for this creature, or getting it under control somehow.

Have we seen or heard about Tuunbaq attacking the Erebus?  Other than when it went after crew members away from both ships, I think we've only seen it attack the Terror.  I wonder why - is it simply because it was closer to the hole where they dumped Lady Silence's father, or is there more to it?

On ‎04‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 1:01 PM, Ohwell said:

I'm a little confused about the canned food.  Wouldn't it be preserved even more in the cold weather?

If it was properly canned, maybe.  But clearly it wasn't, because there've been mentions of it being inedible.

[Ohwell]

21 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

If it was properly canned, maybe.  But clearly it wasn't, because there've been mentions of it being inedible.

Yes, I've read those earlier mentions about lead being in the food.  

On 4/17/2018 at 8:44 PM, Ohwell said:

Ah, ok, so it's  lead poison.  I forgot about that. 

[SoSueMe]

59 minutes ago, Earlwoode said:

Really?  I thought it was just a CGI version of a polar bear, lol.  Not scary at all and the fact that it climbed up the mast after Blanky just had me rolling my eyes - it required a lot of suspended belief.   And then it gets hit by a lantern and catches fire and the cannon knocks it down?  They should really make up their minds if this is a supernatural being or just a polar bear on steroids.

 

I agree. In a previous episode there was a long shot of the bear hulking away and that was pretty scary. But at this point I'm watching in spite of the special effects bear/monster instead of because of it.  No complaints about anything else, though. It's top-notch.

Edited April 19, 2018 by SoSueMe

[proserpina65]

2 hours ago, Captanne said:

That is an awesome understanding and explanation of the Tuunbaq myth.  Thanks!

I watched the episode (okay, I read the subtitles) last night and really enjoyed it.  The show is coming together for me and I do wholly attribute that to the subtitles.

I have to admit that I did politely inform the crew that, if they would just pull all the teeth on the Tuunbaq, then Christmas would still happen, Santa would still be able to drive the sleigh, and Rudolph would help steer with his nose.

[blank stare]

So I take it that you think the Tuunbaq will bounce?

[proserpina65]

38 minutes ago, Captanne said:

As for the lead in the food -- I just looked up bismuth and it's a heavy metal like lead.  So Goodsir is on the right track.  (In the book, Simmons wrote as part of the narrative that they had a hard time coming up with the funding for the trip so they cut corners on the provisions to save money.  That's why the tinned reserves were tainted.  I don't know whether that's true or something Simmons added.  It sounds reasonable, though, doesn't it.)

See the true history thread.

[Captanne]

I'm going to start calling Tuunbaq, "Bumble".  LOL

The point being -- there are a lot of Abominable Snowman myths and Tuunbaq is just one.  The Yeti, the Sasquatch, and the Bumble are just three that come to mind.  (Even the Sasquatch is a northern and cold-environment phenomenon if not "white furred".  NB:  I think Sasquatch and Bigfoot are the same fella, no?)

[Sighed I]

1 hour ago, proserpina65 said:

Have we seen or heard about Tuunbaq attacking the Erebus?  Other than when it went after crew members away from both ships, I think we've only seen it attack the Terror.  I wonder why - is it simply because it was closer to the hole where they dumped Lady Silence's father, or is there more to it?

If it was properly canned, maybe.  But clearly it wasn't, because there've been mentions of it being inedible.

You know, it occurred to me last night as well--I don't think Tuunbaq has attacked Erebus. It has to be for a reason. Seeing as the man who shot the LS's father was on Erebus, and Sir John was the one who ordered the man's body dumped down the fire hole and they were holding LS there for a month, you would think it'd be focused on that ship. So why has it chosen Terror?

RE: the food. I think it's a combination of lead poisoning as well as improper canning/food poisoning since they have noted some of the provisions are already spoiled/inedible when they open the cans.

[slothgirl]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:21 PM, raven said:

Drunken, sad Crozier can still get his ass up to bring Mr. Blanky down.  He still has to be captain even when drinking.  I have respect for him, knowing he's about to go through hell but needing to dry out and telling the other officers about it. 

Even though it seemed that Crozier's timing on drying out is bad, I just realized (ok.. I'm a little show on all the details) that knowing Blanky would be out of commision (after having disagreed with him so vehemently) probably was the kick in the pants he needed to get his &(*% together. After all, Blanky's the ice master, right? And an important part of the command team (you can't lose too many in command over the long haul or others will start trying to step in). Plus feeling responsible because he sent Blanky outside in the 1st place over a spat where Blanky was right.

On 4/17/2018 at 10:15 PM, maystone said:

I don't have On Demand, but I'd love to hear the actors' takes on the show. If it's OK with the mods, could you post about it in the Spoilers and Speculation thread? I cannot get a handle on Hickey's character, so I'm really interested to hear about that one in particular.

I'm not sure they would be spoilers since the ones On Demand seem to correlate to episodes and get released along with the episode (and don't talk about things to come as I recall). But they aren't part of the episode that you see when watching the actual broadcast, so the mods probably don't want mention of them in the episode thread, because a lot of people wouldnt have seen them. I'm not sure I want to venture into the spoiler thread myself. Although I know about the actual expedition, who knows what they are going to do with this fictionalized story?

4 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

I found the creature both scary and kind of adorable.  That's weird, right?

the sailors hearing the dead is a sign of them suffering from botulism for the poorly canned food?  Hell, maybe the creature is just a manifestation of that, and they're really just killing each other.

Yeah... like I said.. cross between Polar Bear and REALLY giant sloth.

I am looking at it as a metaphor.. or maybe something called into existence. Except that it clearly had been a part of Lady S and her father's lives before the arrival of the new kids in town, so....?

3 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

They should really make up their minds if this is a supernatural being or just a polar bear on steroids.

I've read a few interviews with the guy who plays Hickey who said his character in the series is meant to be very different from the cardboard cutout villain in the book (which I'd never heard of much less read) so maybe that is why he gets my sympathies.   I just love his sneaky smirk, lol!

http://home.bt.com/images/the-terror-amc-136425855760302601

I think they have made up their minds... they just haven't gotten to the part of the story where they tell US.

In that phot of Hickey, the actor looks like he is going to audition for the part of Richelieu in a production of The Three Musketeers.

2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Have we seen or heard about Tuunbaq attacking the Erebus?  Other than when it went after crew members away from both ships, I think we've only seen it attack the Terror.  I wonder why - is it simply because it was closer to the hole where they dumped Lady Silence's father, or is there more to it?

I asked the same question.. Every little detail on this show seems to matter... (like the ring from several episodes ago and Dr GS forgetting to get it off the body, then Hickey getting it out of the coffin) So if it hasn't attacked the Erebus, that is significant. I don't think it's as simple as proximity. It's a giant supernatural polar sloth... I doubt that the distance between ships would be a deterrent. 

Speaking of which.. just how far apart are those 2 ships? We primarily see them from way above and they are small blips.. but I can't get a sense of the distance. In the weather they are currently in at this point, ANY distance could be deadly to travel. But how long did it take to walk from one to the other early on or during what was supposed to be spring?

48 minutes ago, Sighed I said:

You know, it occurred to me last night as well--I don't think Tuunbaq has attacked Erebus. It has to be for a reason. Seeing as the man who shot the LS's father was on Erebus, and Sir John was the one who ordered the man's body dumped down the fire hole and they were holding LS there for a month, you would think it'd be focused on that ship. So why has it chosen Terror?

I think we are all asking the same question (which means that probably they WANTED us to be asking that question right about now) and that it will become a very important plot point very soon.

Edited April 19, 2018 by slothgirl

[AZChristian]

9 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

Oh man, I was shouting "Not Ian Hart!  He's a good guy!"

As one of the world's biggest Harry Potter fans, I had to look up Ian Hart in his role in "The Terror."  He sure doesn't like anything like Professor Quirrell!!!

[Earlwoode]

7 hours ago, SoSueMe said:

7 hours ago, SoSueMe said:

No complaints about anything else, though. It's top-notch.

 

Oh I agree.  I'm enjoying the show hugely.  The acting is top notch and there is a terrible sense of dread and doom hanging over everything.  Me, I wouldn't step off the ship what with the polar bear/being lurking around.  I'm surprised it didn't attack the group that came back from the Erebus to The Terror when they brought back the purloined booze.  Those little lanterns look like they don't light up anything.  And I still think they have to define the polar bear:  either it real flesh and blood and therefore mortal or it is a "spirit" and therefore shouldn't be affected by things like fire and cannons let alone bleed from wounds.

 

Re the canned food:  I didn't realize canned food even existed in 1840?  Perhaps the technique was in it's infancy and that's why the food became tainted?  After all, maybe they didn't even know that lead was poisonous if used in conjunction with food?  Much like it is said the population of ancient Rome was slowly poisoned because they used copper utensils for food preparation.

[Ohwell]

13 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

Re the canned food:  I didn't realize canned food even existed in 1840?  Perhaps the technique was in it's infancy and that's why the food became tainted?  After all, maybe they didn't even know that lead was poisonous if used in conjunction with food?  Much like it is said the population of ancient Rome was slowly poisoned because they used copper utensils for food preparation.

Yes, I was surprised that canned food existed back then.

[North of Eden]

Last week I thought man Jarred Harris can act when he was portraying Crozier's exhaustion but he blew me away with his drunk Crozier. This guy is an actor's actor! I would have completely believed Harris got drunk first and filmed his lines. He was that convincing. I hope he get some kind of nomination out of this role if not the actual award.

Also a couple episodes ago someone was wondering if they used real names...Cornilous Hickey was indeed a REAL person...so I have to believe that the author and the network later had to do extensive legal research to make sure he had no surviving lineage in order to make him a villain. James Cameron took a lot of heat from the family of Officer Murdoch on the TITANIC after showing him gunning down passengers and committing suicide to I am sure AMC didn't want to raise any hackles with Hickey.

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Last week I thought man Jarred Harris can act when he was portraying Crozier's exhaustion but he blew me away with his drunk Crozier. This guy is an actor's actor! I would have completely believed Harris got drunk first and filmed his lines. He was that convincing. I hope he get some kind of nomination out of this role if not the actual award.

In case you aren't aware, Jared Harris is the son of the late Richard Harris.  Richard's last movie role was as Dumbledore in the first two Harry Potter movies.  Many of would have loved to see Jared play Dumbledore in the flashback "Fantastic Beasts" movie series.  He's awesome.  I totally agree with you that he was incredible as the drunk captain.

Edited April 20, 2018 by AZChristian
Typo

[North of Eden]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

In case you aren't aware, Jared Harris is the son of the late Richard Harris.  Richard's last movie role was as Dumbledore in the first two Harry Potter movies.  Many of would have loved to see Jared play Dumbledore in the flashback "Fantastic Beasts" movie series.  He's awesome.  I totally agree with you that is was incredible as the drunk captain.

Well, snap! I didn't know about the relationship but it explains a lot if he learned from a master actor. Thanks for sharing.

[proserpina65]

16 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

Re the canned food:  I didn't realize canned food even existed in 1840?  Perhaps the technique was in it's infancy and that's why the food became tainted?

They started canning food in the UK in 1810-1811.  The British Army and Navy were the biggest customers.  Several Arctic expeditions took canned provisions with them during the search for the Northwest Passage, including Sir William Parry's in 1824 and Admiral Sir James Ross' in 1829.

Just now, proserpina65 said:

They started canning food in the UK in 1810-1811.  The British Army and Navy were the biggest customers.  Several Arctic expeditions took canned provisions with them during the search for the Northwest Passage, including Sir William Parry's in 1824 and Admiral Sir James Ross' in 1829.

Edited to note that the canning process was invented in France in 1809.