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Season Four: Speculation WITH Spoilers

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By photo fox
in Sherlock [V]

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photo fox

photo fox

Once we start getting spoilers for Season 4, let's use them to craft some crazy hypotheses about what it all means.

PLEASE NOTE: If you don't want to see spoilers, be careful entering this topic. Spoilers will NOT be individually tagged in here. If you want to speculate without being spoiled, check out the the Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers topic.

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rereader2

rereader2

Some more in the "sort of spoiler" vein: 

 

A tweet from BBC1: "Element-hairy, my dear Watson!

Filming is now underway on the #Sherlock Special, coming to @BBCOne in 2015." Tweet includes a photo of a clapboard for the Special, with a scribbled mustached face. The mustache shows up in fan-photos, as seen here on hypable; in the same hypable piece is a photo of Benedict with slicked back hair and bowtie.

 

It does look like there will be some Victoriana in there--and I'm dying to know how they're going to work that into their modern-day show!

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Winnief

Winnief

My best guess is an investigation involving some historical re-enactment society so they have to dress the parts to fit in.

THe other explanation is that Holmes goes into his mind palace to solve a Victorian cold-case and in doing so puts him and Watson "at the scene" as it were.

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rereader2

rereader2

THe other explanation is that Holmes goes into his mind palace to solve a Victorian cold-case and in doing so puts him and Watson "at the scene" as it were.

 

Oh, good point--after all, we've been in Sherlock's mind palace and his unconscious brain, we could go into his "reconstructing the scene of the crime" mind.

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rereader2

rereader2

From Mark Gatiss's Twitter feed:

 

 

We Gingers must stick together...#Sherlock

 

And there is a photo of a store window reading "Jabez Wilson, Pawnbroker, Est. 1854"--the name of the redhead in The Redheaded League."

 

How that all fits with the quotes from The Blue Carbuncle and the photos from M. Darcy's post just above, I have no idea whatsoever!

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Peace 47

Peace 47

and (warning - there is a very very disturbing picture in this set)  http://tomandlorenzo.com/2015/02/spoiler-alert-natasha-okeeffe-on-the-set-of-sherlock-christmas-special/

What do you all think is up with this woman shooting herself in a manner nearly identical to how Moriarty did? Since she's apparently walking around with blood on her, she survives the shooting, I guess? It is disturbing and weird, whatever is going on.

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rereader2

rereader2

Oho! So it looks like the special may be a Victorian stand-alone with nothing to do with the rest of the series:

 

“The special is it’s own thing,” Moffat told EW before attending a panel at the South by Southwest conference on Monday. “We wouldn’t have done the story we’re doing, and the way we’re doing it, if we didn’t have this special. It’s not part of the run of three episodes. So we had this to do it – as we could hardly conceal – it’s Victorian. [Co-creator Mark Gatiss] and me, we wanted to do this, but it had to be a special, it had to be separate entity on its own. It’s kind of in its own little bubble.”

Source: EW.com

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rereader2

rereader2

(edited)

Mark seems to have been correcting some tumblr posts and reposts when he tweeted:

 

"@livinlifej90 I said 1895. Also, 'The Solitary Bicyclist'? 'The Bruce Partington Project'? Oh dear."

 

So apparently what he said (in reference to the special) was 

 

"It's set in 1895 for reasons which will become clear”

—

Mark Gatiss on Sunday Brunch talking about the Sherlock Special

 

According to Leslie Klinger (who wrote/edited the New Annotated Sherlock Holmes), there are five stories set in 1895. Four are generally agreed on by a majority of Holmes chroniclers:

 

The Three Students
The Solitary Cyclist
Black Peter
The Bruce-Partington Plans

 

And one on which there is no consensus:

 

Wisteria Lodge

 

The most interesting one to me in this context is the Bruce-Partington Plans, because that was part of the mix in TGG. Hmmmmmmm....

 

And then, there's Wisteria Lodge, which might have something to do with those photos of the woman in bridal gown we saw from Setlock--and The Solitary Cyclist might have something to do with Amanda being seen in cycling clothes.

 

Curiouser and curiouser.

Edited by rereader2
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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

I love that the spoiler thread for the very season we are still awaiting was started 2 years ago.  That's precious.

Has anyone seen the S4 filming pictures for episode 1 of Sherlock, John (with a 4 to 6 month old baby in a strapped-on baby carrier) and Mary with a big (bloodhound?) dog walking through Borough Market?  Thoughts?

S4 Filming Pictures

The children playing the baby are adorable (saw them in other pictures not included in the article above), but I am so unenthusiastic about some kind of comedic situation involving doing detective work with a baby and a dog in tow.

Someone also posted elsewhere on Interwebs about how there seemed to be a scene with Mary possibly giving birth in a car driven by Sherlock, with John in the backseat.  Dramatic birth seems cliche for this show (for any show), but I guess we'll see.

And for episode 2, there were reports of filming at Cardiff University's student union, made to look up like a children's ward of a hospital.  There's a picture of Sherlock looking like death warmed over at that location, and lots of speculation that episode 2 will be a "Dying Detective" adaptation and also involve a sick Watson daughter.

Edited by Peace 47
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Driad

Driad

If you are referring to Toby in the ACD story "The Sign of the Four," he is described as an "ugly long haired, lop-eared creature, half spaniel and half lurcher. "  Not a bloodhound.  

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rereader2

rereader2

I know, but a bloodhound is good visual shorthand for a super-tracking dog. I think it's meant to be Toby--it seems to mean that revisiting "The Sign of the Four" would be a good way for Mofftiss to get to their things-coming-back-to-haunt-you or however they phrased it.

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johntfs

johntfs

They've already done a take on The Sign of Four with "The Sign of Three."  I'd like to see what they'd do with "The Adventure of the Illustrious Client" and see their own take on Kitty Winter.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

It seems that most of the dissemination of spoilers for the new season takes place on people's Tumblrs these days, but I'm still a message board gal at heart.  Because I'm on the mobile site, it's not the easiest thing for me to dig out links and put them here, but the show is apparently towards the end of episode 2 filming (and filming on location at North Gower Street, i.e., the exterior for 221B, this very night).

I guess earlier today, they filmed in the daylight a scene on North Gower Street where extras-as-pedestrians were scrambling away from the 221B front door after reacting to a perceived loud noise (perhaps a to-be-added post-production explosion?).

They also filmed it raining at night in front of 221B later on.  Sherlock apparently followed a woman out of his flat, too.  This lady.  [edit:  apparently the photographer who took the picture is on a tear to have it removed from Tumblr, but here is a news article that also has pictures of the woman and disheveled Sherlock]  That picture of her in the link is from another night of filming with Benedict, though, and not tonight.  Her real-life name is Sian Brooke, and as you can see from the link, the person who posted the info thinks that she may be playing Lady Frances Carfax.  Some pictures show that she has a cane or walking stick.

At or around the time that they filmed the scenes with Sian Brooke in the link above, there were also scenes of Benedict stumbling through a busy street in daylight hours looking sick and disheveled.  There were also "mind palace scenes" on the same road where the apparent stand-in for Toby Jones (who is playing Culverton Smith, the villain from the canon ACD story, "The Dying Detective," per his bio on some casting website) confronted Sherlock on that street.  Other people were sitting around a table hooked to IVs, and yet another scene around that time had a 221B interior two-dimensional backdrop unfurled with Sherlock and Wiggins standing in front of it (presumably to be used for said mind palace scenes).

There were also pictures a couple of weeks ago when they filmed at a modest residence in a neighborhood.  Mary, John, Molly, Mrs. Hudson (hiding handcuffs(!) on her person) and Sherlock filmed all day at this location.  There was an ambulance apparently there for Sherlock because in some takes, he would exit the residence and climb in.  John was described as acting stressed or annoyed and exited the residence to climb into a car.  Sian Brooks was apparently there that day, too, and trying hard to hide her face from anyone taking photos.

Edited by Peace 47
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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

I really have enjoyed Andrew Scott in every appearance that he's made on this show, and so I'm interested to see what is next for him.  I'm just parroting other posts I've read, but the theories run the gamut from mind palace to Moriarty's twin brother (since Moriarty had a brother in the stories and twins were reference in TAB).  I mean, there's definitely a danger of going to that well too many times, but for me, he just works on that show.

What is somewhat intriguing to me is some speculation that I read relating to some action on that beach that wasn't caught in any pictures, I guess, so take it with a grain of salt.  Moriarty (or his minions) approached John and an elderly, taller-than-John fisherman on that beach with guns, and John and his companion raised their arms in surrender.  The person who reported this said that they thought the fisherman was Sherlock in disguise.  That sounds like it could be good.

Someone on the production staff tweeted that they were building a cave set for use next week, and so I might guess that the boys end up (or started out at) in a cave on the cliffs at that beach.

And they also cast both a young Sherlock (confirmed by Moffat's son, who said that he was too old to play the part this time around:  a 6-year-old Sherlock) and apparently, a young Mycroft (which isn't confirmed).  Those Tumblr detectives figured out from some other Twitter of someone who didn't get the part and who looks like this kid that these kids were auditioning for this show.

Edited by Peace 47
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Winter Rose

Winter Rose

I'd been hanging by a thread to the hope that Sherlock only concluded Moriarty was dead because it made sense to him rather than proof, it bugged me when it was suggested Moriarty was so easily duped on the rooftop. But I could see it being twins now just because TAB was so adamant that it's never twins and I'd rather a misdirection than waste the "truth" about Moriarty in a special. But admittedly I'll take him in any form, I love the character. I know he can be OTT but from the commentaries and special features, it sounds like that's exactly what they wanted from him and it's fitting for this version of Sherlock.

What I'm surprised about is Andrew actually being seen on set. I'd think they either wouldn't keep writing confrontations in Sherlock's mind palace because of repetition or, if they wanted to do it anyway, or if he's needed outside the mind palace, that they wouldn't want that spoiled. So whatever's going on with Moriarty, I would've thought if he was anywhere near that set that they'd keep him hidden.

But I'd be guessing if Moriarty's approaching John, as well as Sherlock disguised as a fisherman, that that's not a mind palace scene.

Also, wow, if that kid is playing a young Mycroft then good casting there. He really looks like he could be a young Mark.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

I agree with you that this being mind palace could be repetitive.  And in addition, John chucking Moriarty off the waterfall in TAB was (I think) meant to show Sherlock's method of dealing with his fears (which fears were personified by Moriarty).  That method was to accept help from his most trusted confidante and not take on everything alone.  So there's been a seeming resolution to the mind palace version of Moriarty.

In S3, Andrew Scott filmed (staged?) a short scene shaking hands with Mycroft outside of St. Bart's while they were filming other stuff for "The Empty Hearse," and the cast later said that scene had been filmed only to throw off all the bystanders.  That made some people think that this "Moriarty emerging from a helicopter" scene is also fake, but that makes little sense, given that he would not otherwise be on set, and who would even care except for nerds like me who eat spoilers up with a spoon?  I wonder if that S3 scene will ever turn up in the show, though, since we are not done with Moriarty.

I might think that this helicopter beach scene is a flashback, since we are apparently time-traveling (given the news about casting children-versions of the characters).  Except that if that John and fisherman scene happened, then this couldn't be a flashback.  That takes me back to twin, but it would be a little weird if Moriarty's brother was also a showy criminal mastermind.  On the other hand, at the end of TAB, Sherlock said that there was "no question" that Moriarty was dead, but that more importantly, he knew exactly what Moriarty was going to do next.  So that does frame the issue as being one where someone else picks up the "Moriarty" mantle.

This past week, episode 1 director, Rachel Talalay, posted a picture of the crew gift that she bought the Sherlock crew:  a t-shirt to represent the episode (where the designer drew something based on two producer-approved keywords:  hound and shark).  A shark also appeared in graffiti in the tunnel that they were shooting in for episode 1.  That's strange because Magnussen was the one referred to as a shark, and he's pretty dead, but I wonder if we're not done with him, either.  I always thought it was weird that both Moriarty and Magnussen both emphasized talking about people's "pressure points."  That's a very specific phrase that seems more than just a writer holdover phrase.

Edited by Peace 47
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Winter Rose

Winter Rose

I'm doubtful the helicopter scene is fake too. It could be but that just seems expensive and excessive for a fake scene, whereas I'd imagine the Moriarty and Mycroft handshake probably didn't take much to film. I'm liking the twins theory though. Maybe it could be like The Prestige, willing to live and die by the act.

But if it's a flashback, I have to wonder just how many of them they're doing. I figure a flashback with an adult Moriarty wouldn't have a child version of Sherlock since Andrew and Ben are the same age. So I'd just hope there wouldn't be so many that they distract from the main story.

That's interesting about the shark. I do wonder if they'd really bring back two villains we've been led to believe are dead so maybe they'll just reference Magnussen. He was someone Sherlock found disturbing in a way not even Moriarty was. There might also still be a fallout for killing him now that Sherlock's not going on his suicide mission.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

So if Moriarty's twin is potentially at issue (as we've speculated), that reminds me of what Mycroft said at the end of HLV.  Mycroft wasn't prone to outbursts of brotherly compassion and cited his treatment of "the other one" as evidence of this.  People were wondering at the time if Mycroft and Sherlock had a dead brother or sister, but what if the brotherly compassion that Mycroft failed to show was compassion for Moriarty's brother? And so what if Moriarty's brother is "the other one"?

Steven Moffat spoke at a Nerdist panel at SDCC  (in addition to the Sherlock panel that he, Gatiss and Abbington are doing tomorrow, out of which I really hope that there is a clip tomorrow).  There's just round-ups tweets of what he said for now, but he apparently called episode 3, which he co-wrote with Gatiss, "insane wish fulfillment."

The crew also tweeted about fireworks that they said they had on Cumberbatch's 40th birthday, but I've seen speculation that the fireworks are actually part of the filming for the show, which I think would make sense.

Fingers crossed for a trailer or clip tomorrow!

Edited by Peace 47
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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

I've spent a lot of time on Tumblr today reading trailer theories and whatnot.  (I don't know why, since I've got 6 months to stew on this, but whatever, I have no impulse control.)

As a general note, I think it's interesting that they seem to have scenes from all 3 episodes in this trailer.  The pre-season 3 trailer had scenes only from "The Empty Hearse."  So this gives a bit more flavor to the whole series than we had last time.

Here is a post that has a screenshot of all of our characters in the trailer.  Amanda Abbington did some shooting in Moracco(? or some place in Northern Africa, at least) a few weeks ago (per either her or some crew member's Twitter), and here, she is wearing a hijab.  In HLV, Magnussen's "file" on her showed her with this dark hair (sans hijab), and so I've seen people speculating that this is a flashback to her old life. Could be a present-day Sydney Bristow wig situation, though, too.  That's my instinct--that she's off taking care of unfinished business in the present.  That supports my longstanding assertion that Mary is an antagonist and the real "Moran" of the story, though, so take my biases with a grain of salt.

For the episode 2 issue of Sherlock actually being sick (and not faking like in the ACD story, "The Dying Detective") here is a gif of Sherlock looking like he's totally lost it and is shooting at the wall.  The background has papers all over the floor and generally looks messy.  He seems to be in a bad way.

John is in a car that is hit (although I think the car explosion in the second gif is a separate scene).  I read a few weeks ago that the set designer had tweeted some pics of a water tank and wrecked car, and some were speculating at the time that John was run off the road and into a body of water.

John is standing in front of a hospital bed in the trailer, and this post debunks the thought that it was Sherlock's hospital bed from HLV (since it is clearly a different room, and in addition, although it's not mentioned in the post, that is clearly John's S4 hair).

Moriarty (or Moriarty's twin) is in this too.

Looks pretty good overall.  That "2017" kills me at the end, though.  3 years we will have waited to see how HLV really plays out.

Edited by Peace 47
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IWantCandy71

IWantCandy71

I'll just repeat what I've already said: if they kill off Mycroft, I won't be back for Series 5, but I don't think there will be a Series 5, if they go that far. I think, based on comments I've seen, they are trying to tie things up so that if this is the last one, it will be an acceptable place to stop. And since I think the series has drop by drop gone downhill, that would probably be a good thing. I will watch for Gatiss, and any brotherly moments, but beyond that, I can't say I really care what happens to anyone else.

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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

I was just thinking about how I got a little worked up at the producers in the media thread this summer about their post-SDCC message that they were emphatically not fostering any implications of Sherlock/ John on the show (no matter what fans choose to run wild with in fandom).

And I was thinking about this in in the context of that new S4 trailer that I posted in the trailer thread, because certain people I follow on Tumblr are sure that the "I love you" scene is being said about John, in a romantic way, even if John is standing behind him, and even if that scene is taking place in Sherlock's mind palace.  (That it seems to be in the mind palace is a forming consensus, for whatever reason, perhaps due to the placement of John and Mycroft at each of Sherlock's shoulders, like an angel and devil of a conscience, and these writers growing more and more enamored of the mind palace with each passing season.)

I have followed to a degree the setlockers on Tumblr (those who try to suss out plot details from the tweets and other social media of Sherlock cast and crew) because I've just always enjoyed spoilers for shows that I really like.  Setlockers have made the show's set designer, Arwel Wyn-Jones, a bit of a celebrity because he'll take photos of set objects (or shadowed cast members) and post them as teases that fans go nuts trying to interpret.  (Example:  one time he posted a glass bowl, and you could faintly see Sherlock's and John's reflections in it, and people tried to figure out what episode, scene, costumes, etc., were involved.)  It's a mystery game for an eager online fanbase of a famous detective show.  I personally have no patience for that kind of game, but it is fun and impressive to see what fans come up with.

One thing that Johnlockers really latched onto in S3 was the "elephant in the room" scene in TSoT.  There was extensive discussion that I followed (but actually was personally skeptical of at the time) in certain corners about how Sherlock's love for John was the true elephant in the room, and how all those references to the other incidental cases around that scene were also symbolic of something more between the two.  BBC3's official Tumblr account even engaged with fans on elephant symbols that merged with winking Johnlock references, although that social media curator didn't work on the show itself.  Arwel would tweet about elephants, too, and then I started thinking that if show staffers are playing this game, maybe there is something to the theory (at least until I read Moffat and Gatiss's post SDCC interview).

The thing is (and this is why I'm putting it in the spoiler thread), Arewel still has in the past few weeks continued to tweet about elephant props and references (that's just one link), and there's no way that he isn't aware of how his eager (but very limited and specialized) audience is interpreting that.  And most of the people who work on the show are under strict NDA lockdowns, and so I think the producers are aware of Arwel's role and probably also what the BCC said about the show to this niche fanbase.  (Amanda Abbington once posted a picture of her closed script for TAB, and online sleuths changed the picture contrast to read part of the text of the first script page under the cover page, which turned into a minor PR brouhaha when Abbington snapped at fans online for doing that.  So after that, the producers I think generally have clamped down on what gets out.)

And I was thinking about elephants and what image they are conveying in the context of the trailer, where putting in the line, "I love you," is going to at least send some people's thoughts to the questions: is it a romantic declaration?  Whom is he addressing?  He's already told John he loves him (as a friend) in TSOT, so what makes the "I love you" momentous enough for a trailer?  I know people hate shipping in their favorite shows where it was never presented as an endgame from the start. (I know people are relieved it's not an issue in Elementary, for example, and that back in the day, some people were quite opposed to thought of a Mulder/Scully relationship being inserted into their spooky conspiracy theory show.)

The thing is, it's making me vaguely uncomfortable that you have network social media accounts and set designers fanning the flames of the active online contingent who get the word out about, and spend money on, this show and its merchandise, when TBTB maintain plausible deniability about what this show is doing.  I mean, it is just a show, but lots of people have now viewed the show with some hope that LGBT representation will continue to become more mainstream.

I did mention in the TAB thread that I came away from that episode initially being more convinced than ever that Sherlock was in love with John (the greenhouse conversation with himself about his sexual impulses and also getting high then reading John's blog about the day they met, of which Mary took particular note, being the two things that convinced me all the more).  But I did also think that Gatiss's and Moffat's statements this summer were intended to stamp out anything but a subtextual interpretation of Sherlock's desires.

The emphasis in the two trailers we've seen is about how something dark in Sherlock's past is coming back to threaten him and the people he cares about.  "I love you" could be directed to the long-lost brother that was speculated, or his parents (at least Cumberbatch's father was spotted on-set this go-around), or Mycroft.  (I don't think Mycroft standing behind Sherlock would preclude the statement being directed at Mycroft.)  I don't know: I just have some mixed feelings about where this show might go and how it takes certain portions of its fanbase to that point.

Edited by Peace 47
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IWantCandy71

IWantCandy71

(edited)

 I believe even Gatiss and Moffat know the show will be forever changed by the death of Mycroft, and a huge chunk of the reason Sherlock, both the character and the overall show, is popular, is due to Mycroft's presence and the brotherly relationship. Bringing back Mycroft as a part of the mind palace or as a figment of Sherlock's imagination won't be the same. I think he does die(have thought that with each new series, though) and that's why they have already said it likely be the last series, at least for a very long time.

Edited by IWantCandy71
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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

Fans were so worried about Mycroft in S3, and he came out the other side just fine, but the chatter this season is even stronger than it was before.  Literally everyone whom I follow online is convinced he bites the big one this time.  To that end, the promotional teaser that I just posted in the media thread has various objects floating in the wreckage of a symbolic flood in 221B; one of the items in the background of the picture is Mycroft's umbrella, and people were taking it as a bad sign that Mycroft has symbolically been separated from his brolly.

One of the interviews floating around that Moffat and Gatiss (and others) have been doing (don't have a link at the moment) mentions that the unofficial title of "The Six Thatchers" around the set was "The Three Watsons."  That of course has made people think about "The Three Garridebs" story from ACD canon where Watson is grazed by a bullet, and Holmes loses all his chill about that.

A couple of the early episode advertisements for TST, like the one I posted in the media thread, mention a shocking cliffhanger ending to that episode.  As someone who's definitely closely followed online speculations about the season, I can't imagine what would be so earth-shattering, since everything seems to have been speculated.

I've seen all of the following speculated at some point:  Mary is still a stone-cold assassin who hasn't given up the life; the baby isn't really real (perhaps died), and that clip floating around (where Mary and John are passing the baby around, and Sherlock says that he would prefer to take Mary on cases over John because she is better at it than John is) is just John's nightmare; Morairty is still alive; Moriarty is dead and it's his twin brother we've seen in the clip; Mary is the long-lost third Holmes sibling; Mycroft was cornered into playing both sides of the Moriarty situation and has done something terrible as a result; Sherlock goes blind in "The Lying Detective" (due to Gatiss talking about a "dark" season and being a troll on things like this, coupled with set pictures of Benedict having red eyes and/ or dark glasses on)' .... the list goes on.  I almost can't imagine being shocked.

People who still think that John and Sherlock will end up together have an ongoing joke on Twitter and Tumblr that crew and cast who spill too much in interviews about that endgame get admonished by the producers.  The set designer retweeted one of their jokes about this today (which contained yet another reference to his placement of elephants on set--see my post above).  As I mentioned, that type of teasing would seem to be in very bad taste if the show doesn't ultimately go there:  why string people along?

Edited by Peace 47
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Peace 47

Peace 47

(edited)

BBC iPlayer tweeted this today about the next episode.  The text is:  "#Sherlock's back & he's in love. But who with? And what has he done to his best friends?"  Emphasis added.

I saw on Tumblr that the bus stop lady flirting with our favorite philanderer is played by the same woman who plays "the lady in red" next episode.   During setlock, this woman was seen walking all over London with Sherlock in a long red dress and cane.  Sherlock had in his hands at many times during those sightings a piece of paper.  Might be John's letter from the end of "The Six Thatchers" since we never saw what it said, and if all it said was "Get lost," Molly pretty effectively conveyed that message already.  Edit:  Speculation is that Sian Brooke, the actress playing both the bus stop lady and the lady in red, is playing twins (to tie into the twins mentions in TST and TAB). 

Edited by Peace 47
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