S04.E04: Brainless in Seattle, Part 2

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Liv and Clive discover the murder they are investigating was the work of a serial killer. Meanwhile, Major enters dangerous territory.

Promo:

[UNOSEZ]

I'm glad sale isn't cheating it's just an open relationship..  I hope this isnt the last we see of renegade... I like the dynamic between her and Live.. A real mother kind of figure.. It was cool to just see the crew enjoying themselves at the end..  Angus' church folk are nutbars

[ramble]

I can’t fully express how much I despise the crazy church of Robert Knepper’s. And I can’t watch Knepper with enjoyment any more since the accusations so it adds to my dislike. Ugh. 

[MisterGlass]

This one was up and down.  Ravi's horrible undercover acting always makes me smile, but Liv's brain of the week had worn out its welcome.  I was really thrown off by Major shooting up the bar and menacing people, however shady they might be.  That was way out of character.  Major is supposed to be compassionate, and violent only in defense of others.

I wish they would stop making things awkward for Clive.  He doesn't need more drama.  He's already stuck being the straight man for all the other characters.

[Guest]

Major's wrestler brain seemed more like some weird sailor to me.

[Chicago Redshirt]

So the trouble with the show these days is there are too many subplots and not enough time to let them all have enough space to breathe.

For example, tonight we had:

A. Solving the murder of the week

Seems like it shouldn't be that difficult to figure out where exactly Bruce was. I love a good Ravi sting as much as the next guy, but Bruce presumably could be traced through his internet use, the other coyotes, his vehicles, whatever connection he had to the place with the oven, etc etc. 

Dutch Oven is a reminder of the little jokes the show used to go through.

B. The search for the recently turned zombie and the video

I guess we're supposed to accept that Tucker is indeed a zombie. But how come he hasn't turned blonde and pale? He's had time for some tanning and dye action? I still am holding out hope that he actually isn't a zombie and he's just jumped to a wrong conclusion. 

I don't really understand how the anti-zombie people were so stupid that they wouldn't have instantly put that video on YouTube. 

C. Cozzio

The main good thing about it was Clive calling Liv out.

D. FG/Blaine/Renegade

I am surprised that Renegade took like no precautions to protect herself.  Also, didn't Angus kill the big dude zombie lieutenant of Blaine's? Also, did Blaine ever figure out that Angus is on the loose?

And I get that Blaine crossed with "Liar Liar" is funny, but there's no reason he should act as maitre d' when he is forced to tell the truth. 

I hope Renegade somehow evades getting popsicled or watermeloned. And I hope she gets triple revenge on Blaine - once for turning her, once for murdering Max, and once for ratting her out to FG.

I wonder why Blaine turned her -- doesn't seem like she was rich enough to come up with $25k a month.

E. Liv's romance

I guess it's good that all it takes is a little zombie supremacy to snap Liv out of her romantic delusions and into something approaching her true self. Or maybe it's a function of her having rationed out the romantic brain. 

I got a little bit of the feels for her thinking of her buddies as her soulmates.

I did smile at Major on wrestler brain.  There was a little Popeye going on there. Hopefully, Liv and Major get back together. 

F. FG/Church of Angus

I think this has worn out its welcome. I suppose part of me wonders how much Angus has bought what he's selling and how much he's just off his rocker. But really, it doesn't matter much.

So now FG officially knows that Angus is gathering followers and has named FG the devil. I wonder what their next step will be. 

[thuganomics85]

So, either the writers or Robert Buckley automatically think Macho Man Randy Savage whenever they hear pro wrestler, because it basically felt like Major was him when on those brains.

I'm glad Clive finally did confront Liv over her pushing him to break up with Bozzio.  Even if she was on "romcom brains", she really was being nosey, and it didn't feel like she was even attempting to try and stop herself.  At least she apologize, and now she knows the truth that Clive and Bozzio are actually in an open relationship, even though he clearly isn't happy about it.  I still think this is going to lead to Blaine finding out and offering one of those syringes for a price.

Speaking of which, it was fun seeing him and Don E. on that guy's brains from last week, and being truthful to everyone to a fault.  Surprised they already figured out who Renegade is, and have brought her to Chase.

Ravi was having way too much as fun as "Dr. Alistair." 

Looks like Angus and his flock are being setup to be an obstacle for Fillmore Graves and likely all of the Seattle.  They even got a recruit in the form of the guy that was scratched last week.  I did like that they acknowledge the history between Angus and Major.

[Anela]

I think that Clive should have recognized that there was concern behind what Liv was saying, because she isn't like that (usually). 

My favourite part was the end, with them all dancing, having fun, and Liv saying that she was the luckiest girl, if they were her soulmates. I like that, and that's how I look at life. I'm sick of One True Pairings, even though she and Major really sell a strong love, when they have their moments to express that. When they thought Major was going to die, last season? they even had me swooning, which takes a lot these days. 

Chase Graves gave me the creeps. He reminded me of the aliens on V, when they were looking at the person who would become their next meal. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[mochamajesty]

This felt like a Sex and the City episode. In fact, there were many callbacks to the 90s.

I feel old.

Did Angus kill the tall henchman or just knock him unconscious?  If the latter, then why doesn't Blaine know about Angus the Prophet?

I kept expecting Blaine to confess his love to Peyton while he was on Truth Serum Brain.  In fact, I keep expecting them to run into each other at the club. 

I flinch every time a zombie comes near a human during human/zombie night. I would not feel comfortable in an environment around people who see me as food. I don't care how many drinks I consume.

I like Renegade and I hope that they don't kill her. I still don't get what Chasee wants with her. 

Did not care about the case of the week, at all. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh, no, Chase now has Jeleesa from A Different World!

Major on wrestler brains was so fun. He was definitely channeling the Macho Man Randy Savage.

Loved that Liv heard Savage Garden when she found the vanilla extract. Her Carrie Bradshaw monologue with a side of Bridget Jones at the beginning of the episode was hilarious.

I totally cracked up when she heard Sixpence None the Richer as she was coming down the stairs. Ahhhh, memories of She's All That and Not Another Teen Movie!

The soundtrack alone makes me almost wish that Liv would stay on this girl's brain a little longer. All the 90s touches made me laugh.

I also loved Blaine on the loose lips brain. Not only was he blabbing secrets left and right but he was so genial and upbeat about it. You'd think that every time he let something slip, he'd slap his hand over his mouth or try to cover it up, but nope. He did mention that this was the happiest he'd ever been. The brief Blaine/Don E. conversation about laundry was so perfectly Blaine and Don E. Now how long before Don E. screw Blaine over to steal or sell the remaining cures? And ha at Tanner not realizing he was being underpaid!

Poor Clive. Sometimes that's how open relationships come about - one person wants to and the other person doesn't want to lose the first person so they agree to it and they're miserable. I mentioned this a few episodes ago when Clive talked to Ravi, but seeing Clive talk to Liv about how he's not an open relationship guy just reminded me how far he's come since S1 when he said they should never talk about anything personal. He and Liv definitely have a big brother/little sister vibe where he tolerates her annoying zombie brain of the week quirks but obviously cares about her.

I almost forgot! Major's little zombies in training were making out! Or was Jade making out with Tim Timmerson? It was kind of dark so I wasn't 100% sure who the guy was. I hope it wasn't Tim. I don't want him trying to convince her that Blaine's crazy dad is right.

Edited March 20, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Mr. Sparkle]

59 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, no, Chase now has Jeleesa from A Different World!

<smacks forehead> Of course! That's why she seemed familiar! 

[sacrebleu]

So-- I got a little confused. Didn't Chase think Renegade(??) was the coyote bringing people into Seattle and killing them? or turning them? because I think she turned the one guy (the Parkinson's guy)-- but that's not her main deal. I thought her gig was sneaking humans out (and wouldn't FG want that?)

Liv & Clive caught the coyote bringing people to Seattle and killing them for brains. So what is Chase's beef with Jeleesa? 

I also didn't like that Liv went from basic rom-com addict in episode one to Carrie-clone in episode two-- she was on the same brain was two very different personalities. The only consistency was trying to hook Clive up with the new cop.

I'm really not loving the cult of T-Bag (Angus) 

[dubbel zout]

5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Major on wrestler brains was so fun. He was definitely channeling the Macho Man Randy Savage.

I loved how he was semi-aware of saying things in that weird way when what he was saying was more heartfelt.

29 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

Liv & Clive caught the coyote bringing people to Seattle and killing them for brains.

I loved the sting using Ravi, but a two-part episode for this was a lot of sizzle for a small steak.

As entertaining as it is to watch Robert Knepper devour the scenery, I don't care about his church story. He was more entertaining in the well wearing cement shoes, IMO.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, sacrebleu said:

So-- I got a little confused. Didn't Chase think Renegade(??) was the coyote bringing people into Seattle and killing them? or turning them? because I think she turned the one guy (the Parkinson's guy)-- but that's not her main deal. I thought her gig was sneaking humans out (and wouldn't FG want that?)

Liv & Clive caught the coyote bringing people to Seattle and killing them for brains. So what is Chase's beef with Jeleesa? 

Chase was addressing a problem having to do with the zombie population of Seattle already being too big for the amount of brains that they have been able to import. FG execs an episode or two ago were saying that donations of brains are lower than they expected, and that a lot of the brains they are getting are "falling off the truck." So the last thing that FG needs at this point is more mouths to feed.

Renegade/Mama Leone/Jeleesa (lol) is, according to Chase's talk with Blaine, the coyote who's biggest on smuggling humans into Seattle and turning them into zombies. (This doesn't mean that she doesn't also smuggle humans out of Seattle. She obviously did that when she helped get Hoshi's kid out). We'll see whether Chase wants to just get her to stop, bring her into his organization with the caveat of no more turning people into zombies, use her for intel, or just wants to smash her brains in a public display of what happens to zombies who go against FG.

I'd imagine that FG wants nothing and no one coming into or leaving Seattle without their knowing about it. Presumably part of their deal with the Army is that they keep the quarantine as well as they possibly can. The same apparatus that can get a human out today can get a zombie out tomorrow.

[Ray Adverb]

14 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

I was really thrown off by Major shooting up the bar and menacing people, however shady they might be.  That was way out of character.  Major is supposed to be compassionate, and violent only in defense of others.

This was the worst part.  Fillmore Graves is nothing but violent thugs at this point.  A privately run police force completely unchecked.

 

This whole show is just getting too depressing.  Blaine has the only cure.  A private mercenary group terrorizes the citizens of Seattle with impunity.  The main character of the show is obnoxious and all the zombie brain reactions are becoming utterly overblown.  A zombie apocalypse is beginning.  Nobody takes any of this seriously at all.  The bad guys just keep winning left and right.

 

Did anybody notice the connection between the killer of the week and Blaine?  He was selling those brains to Blaine.  I hope they follow up on this and maybe the killer tries to broker a deal.

[Shenanigan]

The wrestler was fun, but I really wish Major had gone with the drag queen brains.

[Sunshinegal]

I really did like the music in the last two episodes.  I feel like its the '90s all over again.  I mean "truly, madly, deeply" and "kiss me". 

Also, Angus's cult really bores me.  I fastforward through those scenes.  I get why newly turned, desperate  zombies will turn to the religious zealot.  He is giving them brains.  Personally, I'm just bored.  He is not even playing off Blaine or any of the main characters.

[Ray Adverb]

So after Major and his two cronies saw the big cult meeting did they just say "meh" and go home?  Because it seems like important news.

How is something that numerous zombies accidentally stumble upon staying secret?

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, RayAdverb said:

Did anybody notice the connection between the killer of the week and Blaine?  He was selling those brains to Blaine.  I hope they follow up on this and maybe the killer tries to broker a deal.

I don't think we are supposed to think that the Killer of the Week was selling the brains directly to Blaine. We saw in the previous episode that Blaine was buying brains from a guy who gave a rival restaurant Le Dome first choice. And clearly, one of the brains on the menu in last week's episode and this one was the Victim of the Week's. But I'd expect there's at least a degree of separation between Blaine and KOTW.

Which I guess brings up an issue: Why has Seattle PD not rolled up Blaine and arrested him? Before, there were a couple plausible excuses: exposing and arresting Blaine could lead to no one feeding zombies, which could lead to an epidemic and deaths; exposing Blaine means having to reveal zombies are real or him going feral and eating other inmates/guards. 

Those obstacles are now gone.

1 hour ago, Shenanigan said:

The wrestler was fun, but I really wish Major had gone with the drag queen brains.

I think we're to believe that the cadets made the choice of which blue brain and somehow slipped it to him without his noticing. Since they weren't supposed to order blue brains at all, they are probably in trouble.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

In case any of you want to keep up the 90s rom com vibe from this week’s episode:

Savage Garden:

 

Sixpence None the Richer:

 

Smashmouth:

[mjc570]

18 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

 I was really thrown off by Major shooting up the bar and menacing people, however shady they might be.  That was way out of character.  Major is supposed to be compassionate, and violent only in defense of others.

I thought this was completely in character - he had to establish himself and get the information, which he did without hurting anyone.  A less compassionate person might have applied more direct force.

Overall, this was ok - I admit that I like the smart writing and humor, but the plotting is starting to get too convoluted.  I like the case of the week approach, but only if the victim is interesting, the effect on Liv is limited and the case is actually wrapped up.  Rose M. is a great actress, and I love how she adapts to each character, but I'd like more Ravi and Don E.

[Lady Calypso]

Jeez, so much went on, I felt like I watched a double episode in a second parter. 

I still loved the music they incorporated. I thoroughly chuckled at Savage Garden playing when Liv found the vanilla extract. 

I do love when they allow other zombies to be on the wacky brain of the week. Blaine's truth brain and Major's wrestler Randy Savage brain were hilarious. That's what they need to do with Liv more; spread out her being on brain personality overload so that each appearance can actually be funny. I'd love more Major on brains. His teenage girl brain was hilarious, and his wrestler brain is just as funny. Robert Buckley isn't used enough for his comedic acting chops. I'd much rather see Liv and Major go on a brain binging spree and get to play with that, instead of boring prophet stuff with Angus or the FG mess. Seriously, Rose and Robert work well together, so I'm not sure why the show keeps separating Liv and Major as a couple. 

I do think that Major was more forceful with the people at the bar, but he wasn't shooting them and I do think the dynamics within the city have shifted. It was just odd to see, though not incredibly out of character. 

Angus and his cult is still boring to me so I'm basically starting to fastforward, although I did watch Major discovering Angus at the church. I totally forgot their connection, and thoroughly enjoyed Major's confusion with Angus suddenly being this church prophet. 

I did learn that I've been spelling Fillmore Graves wrong this entire time. Two Ls, not one, as it turns out. 

I still feel like Peyton doesn't fit in with this show. I'm not sure why; I do think last season ruined her as a character. However, her smaller moments work well. I loved her, Liv, Ravi, and Major getting to have fun together. That's been a highlight of this two parter.

As for the Renegade/FG stuff, I do actually like Renegade as a character a lot. I just have no idea what Chase's overall plan is with her.

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, RayAdverb said:

This was the worst part.  Fillmore Graves is nothing but violent thugs at this point.  A privately run police force completely unchecked.

It's more off-screen stuff at the moment, but I think Fillmore Graves is checked on a whole lot of fronts. They have to answer to a lot of entities and situations that are not in their control, such as:

1. The U.S. military (and for that matter, global powers). They are living with the full knowledge that if anything gets too out of control, they are going to be bombed out of existence

2. Other zombies. The zombie masses are hungrier than FG can provide for, and whether it's the Angus's Triple Cross Church (heh) or unaffiliated zombies, they are going to have to figure out what to do about them if/when brains become even scarcer than they are now.

3. Seattle PD and other law enforcement. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but at some point those organizations are going to butt heads. Who wins?

4. Internal corruption/incompetence. We've already seen a FG employee working on a black market, and them putting a raw cadet on the street who went into rage mode because her helmet got stolen. So far they seem to not be anywhere near as good at peacekeeping as they used to be at their old mercenary work.

5. The Dead Enders and other hostile humans. There are, say, 300,000 humans with various degrees of hostility toward zombies. The humans don't seem to have qualms about threatening FG soldiers with guns or setting them on fire.

6.  Scientists. The reference to the Darwin Project a bit ago seems like the tip of the iceberg in terms of what the scientific community might do if zombies were real.

7. The legal system. There was a reference to the lawsuit filed by Tucker's family for wrongful death. Again, that is probably the tip of the iceberg. There presumably are 10,000 more people who could file such lawsuits, plus more who could go after FG for creating the conditions that they would be quarantined in New Seattle. 

[Anela]

12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Oh, no, Chase now has Jeleesa from A Different World!

Loved that Liv heard Savage Garden when she found the vanilla extract. Her Carrie Bradshaw monologue with a side of Bridget Jones at the beginning of the episode was hilarious.

I totally cracked up when she heard Sixpence None the Richer as she was coming down the stairs. Ahhhh, memories of She's All That and Not Another Teen Movie!

The soundtrack alone makes me almost wish that Liv would stay on this girl's brain a little longer. All the 90s touches made me laugh.

 

That's who she is! I knew I recognized her from somewhere. You have a  fantastic memory. 

I loved the 90's music. I really miss those years - not just being younger, but the time. I hate feeling old. I'm really edging into "get of my lawn" territory. 

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

did learn that I've been spelling Fillmore Graves wrong this entire time. Two Ls, not one, as it turns out. 

Because they want to fill more graves, get it! I actually think its lame.

I really need an ep are two were Liv isn't on OTT brains because I am starting to really dislike her.

I am so glad that Blaine didnt profess his love for Peyton, I would love it if the show forgot about them completely.

Blaine and Fillmore Graves have really bad intel, I can't believe Blaine doesn't know his dad is walking around and Fillmore Graves should really have informants whp would tell them about movements like Angus's church.

[possibilities]

Shouldn't the company be named, not "Fillmore Graves" but "M.T. Graves" or "Rob Moregraves"? They're taking more out than they are filling in at this point.

[Lady Calypso]

Just now, biakbiak said:

Because they want to fill more graves, get it! I actually think its lame.

My god, I'm an idiot. There's no other explanation as to how I never put that together. 

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

I really need an ep are two were Liv isn't on OTT brains because I am starting to really dislike her.

I've totally forgotten what the real Liv is like. We only get flashes at the beginning and sometimes the end of the episode. Otherwise, it's All Brain All The Time. 

[biakbiak]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

We only get flashes at the beginning and sometimes the end of the episode.

Yeah i spent most of this ep wantimg to FFwd her because I found her so freakin annoying,  I almost wanted Clive to smack her several times and I am not usually one who advocates violence, but then when she blew off Tim Timmerson and they all were dancing and having fun I was reminded that I actually used to like her!

Edited March 21, 2018 by biakbiak

[AllyB]

9 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Shouldn't the company be named, not "Fillmore Graves" but "M.T. Graves" or "Rob Moregraves"? They're taking more out than they are filling in at this point.

Well their initial plot arc culminated in them deliberately infecting over 10,000 people, so their goal throughout season 3 was to figuratively 'fill more graves.' Which actually makes a laughingstock of Major's explanation that seeing a video of an FG soldier infecting a human everyone's worst nightmare. It's nothing more than a tiny sub-fraction of what they did a few months ago.

One thing I felt watching it is that it was super irresponsible of Liv and Clive to let Ravi act as bait. He's the world's pre-eminent zombie cure and vaccine scientist. Realistically they'd probably have some sort of secret bodyguard on him day to day just to make sure he didn't so much as stub his toe. No way would they ever deliberately risk such a valuable person.

[Sunshinegal]

19 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Blaine and Fillmore Graves have really bad intel, I can't believe Blaine doesn't know his dad is walking around and Fillmore Graves should really have informants whp would tell them about movements like Angus's church.

It's either lazy writing or they are making the point that Fillmore Graves and Blaine don't have any control over what is happening in Seattle.  Angus is pretty blatant about his church.  He is not hiding it.  He is trying to recruit members.  I think that Chase at Fillmore Graves is pretty incompetent.  The whole Seattle zombie problem is because he didn't have control at Fillmore.  I think in the end, Chase won't have any control over Seattle either.  He couldn't even feed the zombie population now which is why Angus's church has some appeal.  You have to feed the zombies you have now or they would attack the human population.  If there are no more humans (or hostages) then the US Government or the State of Washington would just nuke you.  

I can understand Blaine.  He doesn't really care about humans or the homeless population.  He just wants to make money.  He won't be looking for intel. 

Wild speculation on my part, but does becoming a zombie make you stupider.  I felt that Liv was smarter in the earlier seasons and Major definitely was (he figured out that Blaine was killing those kids).  i don't think that Chase is that smart either.  The only one with any brains is Blaine.  He went from street hustler to entrepreneur. 

[MisterGlass]

3 hours ago, mjc570 said:

I thought this was completely in character - he had to establish himself and get the information, which he did without hurting anyone.  A less compassionate person might have applied more direct force.

True, he didn't hurt anyone.  However, he used his position and weapons to bully a citizen into compliance.  He didn't try to win hearts and minds, which I think would have been more in character.  He reinforced their stereotype of zombies, and cemented them as enemies.

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Which I guess brings up an issue: Why has Seattle PD not rolled up Blaine and arrested him? Before, there were a couple plausible excuses: exposing and arresting Blaine could lead to no one feeding zombies, which could lead to an epidemic and deaths; exposing Blaine means having to reveal zombies are real or him going feral and eating other inmates/guards. 

Those obstacles are now gone.

Good point.  He's guilty of murder, torture, and extortion.  Plenty of witnesses can now come forward and testify openly against him.  I'm still waiting for Chase to figure out that Blaine infected his brother-in-law, and is part of the reason Fillmore Graves ended up a zombie army.

[dcalley]

17 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

I flinch every time a zombie comes near a human during human/zombie night. I would not feel comfortable in an environment around people who see me as food. I don't care how many drinks I consume.

Yep, and "zombies on the side with the exits, humans on the side with the kitchen" made me think something very bad was about to go down.

[jhlipton]

13 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I loved how he was semi-aware of saying things in that weird way when what he was saying was more heartfelt.

"I know this is a weird thing to yell..."  LOL

12 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Renegade/Mama Leone/Jeleesa (lol) is, according to Chase's talk with Blaine, the coyote who's biggest on smuggling humans into Seattle and turning them into zombies. (This doesn't mean that she doesn't also smuggle humans out of Seattle. She obviously did that when she helped get Hoshi's kid out). We'll see whether Chase wants to just get her to stop, bring her into his organization with the caveat of no more turning people into zombies, use her for intel, or just wants to smash her brains in a public display of what happens to zombies who go against FG.

Yes, take the one black woman in forever on this show and smash her brains.  Nice optics.  Unfortunately, I fear this may be where they're going.

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Yes, take the one black woman in forever on this show and smash her brains.  Nice optics.  Unfortunately, I fear this may be where they're going.

Hey, Jordan (or whatever the zombie cadet's name is) counts for something, no?

I'm not going to beat iZombie up too much over the lack of diversity. As long as there are the occasional characters like Renegade to offset the occasional face-palm (like the walking stereotype black female inmate), I'm good.

As for Renegade herself, my guess is that Chase wants something more important than just squashing her head in. If that was all he wanted, he could have asked Blaine and company to execute her. 

[Affogato]

Loved the opening scene stealling brains off the dirty plates of the rich. 

 in a fairly short length of time we’ve found out where Blaine gets his brains and also that the quality isn’t that amazing. He’s feeling the pinch of the embargo. Fewer astronauts and great athletes. More ordinary people. It doesn’t bode well for his business plan. How much would you pay to experience the brain of a janitor who wants to get her toddler out of Seattle?  The blue brains are like tv shows or movies, but virtual reality. ordinary people arent Blockbuster material.

I suppose that someone will also be found to be culling the donations before they get to the FG factories. If they are in a position to trace the brains they can grab the good ones. 

 I wish the serial killer plot wasn’t resolved with cheap entrapment. I’m in a pickle was funny but in reality there had better be some real evidence.  Also real evidence got by entrapment is still tainted. And it seemed like it should have been harder, somehow. 

Again a flash of acting from Dohring as we apparently move too rapidly to his downfall. I’m starting to care about him a little although.they haven’t given me a reason. Also where is the pupper? 

 I don’t t blame him for coming into the situation unable to finger Carey but he really seems overmatched now.  Meanwhile FG is probably still filled with sympathetic families and kids. Why sont we see more of them? FGshould push the we’re all in this together side of things! And we need to find out more about them.

 It is possible Renegade is the key. He needs a person to see him sympathetically, more time with Major? I can see them as a team, all three of them, trying to find a way out of the mess  I don’t see Liv’s camp doing it right now  

the comparisons with race relations are getting heavy handed but seem muddy. 

Still bored with Liv’s antics. 

Like the religious group. I believe it, although I’m an easy mark —always ready to believe the worst of religion. — I think people would look for comforting group activities and someone to tell them what to do. Fill more graves should be doing this and could. E doing this but odd religions would still pop up. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Affogato

[Chicago Redshirt]

At least in the real world, entrapment is only available as a defense when the person can argue that the government put so much pressure on the defendant or used such questionable tactics that the defendant did things he ordinarily wouldn't have.

That's not the case here. 

You might be able to argue that Bruce was entrapped into coyoting Ravi if he had gone through with it. I don't think that's a winning argument. But the point is moot.  

Bruce pulled a gun on Pickles Ravi and threatened to kill him. With like 8 cops as witnesses. He did that all on his own and he'd be going down for it.

Liv pointed out that he has a burn mark from the Dutch oven where they previously found a bunch of people incinerated.

Presumably additional police work would be done now that Bruce is in custody to link him to his other victims. They would be able, for instance, to obtain search warrants for both his home, his computer, his Internet accounts, and so forth. They presumably would show that he had communications with each of the victims online just before their arrival in Seattle. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Chicago Redshirt

[Miles]

On 20.3.2018 at 4:16 AM, MisterGlass said:

Ravi's horrible undercover acting always makes me smile, but Liv's brain of the week had worn out its welcome.

I'm grwoing weiry of the brain of the week anyway. They are really overdoing it now. The effect was never that pronounced in the earlier seasons. Same goes for Major and his wrestler brain. I wish they'd turn it down a notch again.

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

At least in the real world, entrapment is only available as a defense when the person can argue that the government put so much pressure on the defendant or used such questionable tactics that the defendant did things he ordinarily wouldn't have.

That's not the case here. 

You might be able to argue that Bruce was entrapped into coyoting Ravi if he had gone through with it. I don't think that's a winning argument. But the point is moot.  

Bruce pulled a gun on Pickles Ravi and threatened to kill him. With like 8 cops as witnesses. He did that all on his own and he'd be going down for it.

Liv pointed out that he has a burn mark from the Dutch oven where they previously found a bunch of people incinerated.

Presumably additional police work would be done now that Bruce is in custody to link him to his other victims. They would be able, for instance, to obtain search warrants for both his home, his computer, his Internet accounts, and so forth. They presumably would show that he had communications with each of the victims online just before their arrival in Seattle. 

I think that your definition overplays your hand a little :-) although it seems true that in the US the case is weighed in favor of law enforcement (the person being trapped, contrary to the usual basis of our legal system, may best able to prove they would never normally do what they are being entrapped into doing or that the law enforcement is behaving really really badly).

If I'm reading wikipedia correctly. And no, before I commented I didn't research it. Apparently in Scotland I would have been quite correct.

Smuggling someone in or out of seattle may be criminal? (what would they be charged with? Maybe something like public endangerment?) but a different kind of crime than promising to transport someone via the 'underground railroad' and then killing them.

Also during a zombie apocalypse carrying a gun for self defense and pulling it when you feel threatened is pretty relatable, even for someone who doesn't like people carrying concealed weapons during normal day to day life. Charging him with holding the gun on Ravi really is entrapment.

Then again, who brands themselves accidentally? How weird is that?

My initial impression is that they were trying to find the guy so they could arrest him for the smuggling and then look for proof of the killing part, in which case they wouldn't have needed to send in Ravi in person, it was completely unnecessary. I was overtired, I'm sure I'll watch it again at some point. They had proof he had smuggled people, just not that he had killed them (although they had strong circumstantial evidence that he'd killed them).

Also, where do they think the brains in the restaurants are coming from? They should be 'following the money' and looking for the suppliers with their highly incriminating books. I wonder if that is what Bozzio is doing. Someone has to have half a brain. ahem.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

As for Renegade herself, my guess is that Chase wants something more important than just squashing her head in. If that was all he wanted, he could have asked Blaine and company to execute her. 

Agree, and I don't think someone like Dawnn Lewis would have been cast if Renegade were so expendable.

[Chicago Redshirt]

5 hours ago, Affogato said:

I think that your definition overplays your hand a little :-) although it seems true that in the US the case is weighed in favor of law enforcement (the person being trapped, contrary to the usual basis of our legal system, may best able to prove they would never normally do what they are being entrapped into doing or that the law enforcement is behaving really really badly).

If I'm reading wikipedia correctly. And no, before I commented I didn't research it. Apparently in Scotland I would have been quite correct.

Smuggling someone in or out of seattle may be criminal? (what would they be charged with? Maybe something like public endangerment?) but a different kind of crime than promising to transport someone via the 'underground railroad' and then killing them.

Also during a zombie apocalypse carrying a gun for self defense and pulling it when you feel threatened is pretty relatable, even for someone who doesn't like people carrying concealed weapons during normal day to day life. Charging him with holding the gun on Ravi really is entrapment.

Then again, who brands themselves accidentally? How weird is that?

My initial impression is that they were trying to find the guy so they could arrest him for the smuggling and then look for proof of the killing part, in which case they wouldn't have needed to send in Ravi in person, it was completely unnecessary. I was overtired, I'm sure I'll watch it again at some point. They had proof he had smuggled people, just not that he had killed them (although they had strong circumstantial evidence that he'd killed them).

Also, where do they think the brains in the restaurants are coming from? They should be 'following the money' and looking for the suppliers with their highly incriminating books. I wonder if that is what Bozzio is doing. Someone has to have half a brain. ahem.

Yeah, sorry for being America-centric in my thinking. Even the law here might vary from state to state, but generally, Bruce wouldn't be able to claim that he was entrapped.

I'm operating under the assumption that with the quarantine, there's some level of crime/punishment for violating it, conspiring with others to violate it, etc. We saw FG soldiers summarily shoot a bunch of people in the head at the border. Not sure if they were zombies, humans or what. Not sure if FG is legally authorized to summarily execute people who try to violate the quarantine. 

Bruce clearly wasn't acting in self-defense when he pulled the gun on Ravi. He was threatening to shoot him, unprovoked, and take the money Ravi brought. If Bruce tried to sell the story that he felt threatened by Ravi, there's Ravi and a half-dozen cops to contradict him. (Plus, whoever could feel threatened by Ravi? Let alone a scary buff dude like Bruce) 

Thanks to Liv's visions, she knew what Bruce looked like, and that he had been at the place, and (I believe) that he burned his hand on the Dutch Oven chasing Midwestern Belle. Since the visions in and of themselves are apparently inadmissible, they were indeed fishing for more info with the visions as a lead. 

I'm sure that when Blaine is not on loose-lips brain, he has some plausibly convincing cover story about how all the brains that are served in the restaurant belong to people who have died natural deaths in Seattle, kept in organic conditions, blah blah blah. Most people who might ask aren't going to be super choosy about the source, just as most humans aren't going to want too many details about how their sausage gets made.

[tennisgurl]

Ravi going undercover as an even more British-y British man was definitely a highlight. I still love the character dynamics of the show more that I have ever been super into the crime or the zombie stuff. I mean, those things are great when they have something to do with the characters, but the character stuff is what I like the most. 

So basically, Seattle is filled with various groups of asshole headed for an asshole collision? We have Fillmore Graves, who have some decent people among their ranks, but are basically a private police force holding the city hostage and created a bunch of zombies for their own purpose without really thinking of how they would help all of these zombies function. We have the human extremists, who are asshole who harass and attack innocent zombies. And you now have the zombie extremest cult! Because thats what every delicate powder keg situation needs! Religious nuts! Plus you have Blaine and his criminal organization, and random murderers and asshole running around, the whole thing is a mess. 

I love the 90s music. This brain might be kind of annoying, but I dig her musical taste.

[jhlipton]

22 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Hey, Jordan (or whatever the zombie cadet's name is) counts for something, no?

I was excited about Jordan at first, but they gave her a personality-ectomy, so I pretty much forgot about her.  (The fact that you weren't sure about her name speaks volumes!)

[Anela]

15 hours ago, Miles said:

I'm grwoing weiry of the brain of the week anyway. They are really overdoing it now. The effect was never that pronounced in the earlier seasons. Same goes for Major and his wrestler brain. I wish they'd turn it down a notch again.

I assumed that after that rather dark ending, last year, the story line would change. I think I would have preferred to have seen how they got to where they are now. I wanted to see the aftermath of the season ender. 

[Clanstarling]

On 3/20/2018 at 4:53 PM, Lady Calypso said:

My god, I'm an idiot. There's no other explanation as to how I never put that together. 

I've totally forgotten what the real Liv is like. We only get flashes at the beginning and sometimes the end of the episode. Otherwise, it's All Brain All The Time. 

It took me a while too, and I think I didn't get it until someone spelled it out (as it were) on the forum a while back.

On 3/20/2018 at 8:18 PM, dcalley said:

Yep, and "zombies on the side with the exits, humans on the side with the kitchen" made me think something very bad was about to go down.

Me too.

[AudienceofOne]

On 20/03/2018 at 4:11 PM, Anela said:

My favourite part was the end, with them all dancing, having fun, and Liv saying that she was the luckiest girl, if they were her soulmates. I like that, and that's how I look at life. 

It reminded me of early season 1 when Liv's zombism was almost a metaphor for depression and solving the crimes was a way for her to regain a sense of purpose. There was such a sense of joy at the end of those episodes and I realise that's what I miss.

That actually tangentially reminds me of Mr Robot where extreme loneliness and a feeling of helplessness lead people to do extraordinarily-destructive things just to feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves. That desire - purposes, belonging, companionship - seems to underpin everything that's happening this season. But instead of being joyous, like Mr Robot it's destructive. Unfortunately, I think this says more about what is happening is society more broadly than it does about TV. In that way, for all its silliness, iZombie is one of the more accurate shows out there.

[aradia22]

Why is Russ such an asshole? And if he's not going to be doing anything can they write him out of the show now?

I knew it! It was confirmed when she referenced the Manolo Blahniks. She's not Bridget Jones at all. She's Carrie Bradshaw. If you're going to do a character, get it straight. Those two are nothing alike. 

Oh, boy. I knew it was coming when that guy was filming on his phone. Police brutality/unwarranted deadly force. What the hell is going on with iZombie this season? Why do they think they should take on all these topics (badly)?

Also, why did Chase call the humans "breeders"? Has it been confirmed that two zombies or one zombie and a human can't conceive a child?

Oh Jesus Christ. Of all the scenes to waste time with we've got Tucker and his friends who can't act? 

Lol. I love that Blaine has time for minor evil like not giving Tanner benefits or paying him for overtime. 

Oh God. It feels like a terrible idea for Blaine and Don E. to be spilling all their secrets. Why in the hell would he go out on the floor? Surely the waiters could handle things for a while until he was off the loose lips brain?

Is this the first time they've made that "no" in Babineaux joke?

Oh, so now Angus is anti-Fillmore Graves? I still don't care. They're forcing all these plotlines with the religious cult and the human smugglers and the anti-zombie gangs and now they're forcing them to all fit together. Ugh. It's like watching Crash.

They're really trying to retroactively make Renegade compelling but it feels rushed with a character we just met.

I feel like Captain Seattle/Fisher could really be Major junior. I wish they would develop his character more and maybe let him bond with Major. I'm sad we let go of Major being a social worker again so quickly. 

OH MY GOD. They're seriously just finding Angus/Brother Love's church NOW? What are Fillmore Graves and Blaine doing that they haven't noticed him at all?

I get that they were hungry and he's feeding them and also they're the kind of people who go in for a crazy cult leader but still, the people at the "church" felt more like traditional zombies than the more or less human zombies we're used to seeing on the show. There was definitely something more animal or hive mind-like about the way they were acting. 

Well, at least someone showed up (Major) who could recognize Angus. It's weird that Angus was able to recognize him as both Major and the Chaos Killer but still seemed to be crazy. I don't think we're supposed to believe that his religious fervor is an act he's using to gain power. But evidently his memories can pierce through the crazy. Maybe that's why they've been keeping him away from Blaine.

Catching the serial killer/human smuggler seemed way too easy. 

So they are in an open relationship? Eh...

Wait? Didn't Angus hit ponytail on the head with a hammer? How is he still alive?

I thought the cadets would take the blue brain themselves. Dosing Major was much funnier.

OK, all the 90's songs have been the only good thing about this romantic brain Liv has been on for 2 episodes. Liv imagining kissing Tim vs. kissing Tim in reality is the difference between how I want to be kissed and how guys usually slobber on my face.

"Zombie supremacist"? Oh good God. My eyes hurt from rolling them so hard. Writers, what are you doing to me?

Human/zombie night at The Scratching Post is incredibly... PG-13. Possibly just PG.

[aradia22]

Quote

I was really thrown off by Major shooting up the bar and menacing people, however shady they might be.  That was way out of character.  Major is supposed to be compassionate, and violent only in defense of others.

It didn't bother me. I think it was season 1 when Blaine owned Meat Cute and Major was going after him. He can go off when he lets loose. Major was defending his cadets, FG, and all zombies. I can believe that property damage wasn't at the top of his priority list in the moment. 

Quote

I don't really understand how the anti-zombie people were so stupid that they wouldn't have instantly put that video on YouTube.

I don't understand what magical thing they expected Tucker to do with the phone/video other than it convincing him to kill himself. But couldn't they have just sent him the video and achieved the same end? And also, it's super easy to copy files these days. It's not like when the MacGuffin was a physical object that could be easily destroyed. It reminds me of Crazy Ex-Girlfriend this season where one character has incriminating emails and gives a file of them to another character when he decides to end his blackmail but just as a gesture because they're print-outs of emails. 

Quote

Oh, no, Chase now has Jeleesa from A Different World!

THAT'S who she is! God, I haven't thought about that show in years.

Quote

Renegade/Mama Leone/Jeleesa (lol) is, according to Chase's talk with Blaine, the coyote who's biggest on smuggling humans into Seattle and turning them into zombies. (This doesn't mean that she doesn't also smuggle humans out of Seattle. She obviously did that when she helped get Hoshi's kid out). We'll see whether Chase wants to just get her to stop, bring her into his organization with the caveat of no more turning people into zombies, use her for intel, or just wants to smash her brains in a public display of what happens to zombies who go against FG.

I'm still not sure how he knew that and why in the hell she would be doing that. She's said some vague things about wanting to help people and be useful. But is she really such an idealist and so oblivious that she doesn't realize there will obviously be a finite quantity of fresh brains and increasing the zombie population isn't a smart thing to do when they'll all be fighting over the same scarce resource? She's a zombie herself. (Side note: Does everyone know that zombies go full Romero when they haven't been fed or is it just the core cast... Liv and her friends, Chase, Blaine... who know that?) I do think that realizing that Renegade isn't a man and that maybe she's not as mercenary as he might have guessed might change Chase's reaction to her. 

Quote

So far they seem to not be anywhere near as good at peacekeeping as they used to be at their old mercenary work.

Quote

I think that Chase at Fillmore Graves is pretty incompetent. 

 

I miss Vivian. I actually don't hate Chase as a character but it seemed like Vivian had motivations and an actual plan. Maybe that was why the show killed her. Because they hadn't thought through her plan and keeping her around would mean they would have to explain it all some day. So I don't hate Chase for not really having a handle on things after being thrown into this crazy situation. But I need a more compelling authority figure then. Maybe someone from the actual government. If Chase isn't the Big Bad or the major authority figure, I don't know what function he serves other than being in over his head and helping to feed the audience exposition.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/20/2018 at 7:04 PM, Anela said:

I loved the 90's music. I really miss those years - not just being younger, but the time. I hate feeling old. I'm really edging into "get of my lawn" territory. 

The 90s were a great time period, I miss it a lot (though my musical tastes run more towards Soundgarden and Pearl Jam)

[KaleyFirefly]

On 3/24/2018 at 7:28 PM, AudienceofOne said:

That actually tangentially reminds me of Mr Robot where extreme loneliness and a feeling of helplessness lead people to do extraordinarily-destructive things just to feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves. That desire - purposes, belonging, companionship - seems to underpin everything that's happening this season. But instead of being joyous, like Mr Robot it's destructive. Unfortunately, I think this says more about what is happening is society more broadly than it does about TV. In that way, for all its silliness, iZombie is one of the more accurate shows out there.

I love "Mr. Robot"! Brilliant show, one of the best on TV.