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OnceSane

S06.E14: Watch Your Back

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2 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Gross. It's not a contest, and she wasn't comparing (not the being a bitch and being physically intimidated are all that comparable). Because a woman isn't visibly harmed, she's got nothing to complain about? OK, then! And again, gross. 

Agreed. Disgusting. 

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1 minute ago, ivygirl said:

Stassi’s been a jerk at times, no doubt about it. However, Sandoval has been OTT in his defense of Jeremy seemingly *because* it’s Stassi (whom he loathes) and Kristen (his ex, and we know how he feels about her). He didn’t see Jeremy’s behavior, but he’s probably heard the stories about his record from Ariana. And yet he chooses to blow up at Stassi's choice of words while ignoring the serious underlying issue.

If I were about to date a creeper, I’d appreciate a heads up from friends. 

Stassi a jerk at times? Honey, that's the biggest understatement made of this show and I'm a newbie! What dating? They had drinks one time with a camera crew! What was supposed to happen; him bite and drain her of blood? Please! I just SMH not understanding the outrage when Stassi's been such a rotten human being for so long! Anything short of a physical assault can be waved IMO because she's so FOS! I don't blame Tom and Ariana for defending Jeremy as any friend or sibling would! Stassi would expect the same from her brother and Kristen no matter how rotten her behavior has been! Lets all take a chill pill and be rational for a moment! lol! ;-)

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Obviously when Stassi and Kristin discussed Jeremy with Billi they were not only referring to his creepy behavior at the wedding,( YES it was creepy)  but also his arrest record and protection order violations, they just didn’t disclose that on camera. Of course they told Billi though.  Which means this is producer influenced. Ariana is not getting a good edit this season. 

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Stassi a jerk at times? Honey, that's the biggest understatement made of this show and I'm a newbie! What dating? They had drinks one time with a camera crew! What was supposed to happen; him bite and drain her of blood? Please! I just SMH not understanding the outrage when Stassi's been such a rotten human being for so long! Anything short of a physical assault can be waved IMO because she's so FOS! I don't blame Tom and Ariana for defending Jeremy as any friend or sibling would! Stassi would expect the same from her brother and Kristen no matter how rotten her behavior has been! Lets all take a chill pill and be rational for a moment! lol! ;-)

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Nope.

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So I watched this episode without knowing any prior history on Jeremy.  And I was actually digging how cool and accepting he seemed to be of Billie.  And I really liked what he said to her about her being 'all woman' ect. 

What Jeremy actually said was "Who cares, you are a woman now". Which is not correct. Billie isn't a woman "now", she was always a woman. Transgender women were always women. So he's ignorant af and I hope she called him on that. 

Edited by PetuniaP
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Here is the after show discussion.  http://www.bravotv.com/vanderpump-rules-after-show/season-4/videos/tom-sandoval-knows-why-jeremy-talked-to-stassi-at-katies

Stassi was within her rights to reject Jeremy touching her.  It seems Kristen issue is the volume of people Jeremy was hitting on.  

12 minutes ago, Juliegirlj said:

Obviously when Stassi and Kristin discussed Jeremy with Billi they were not only referring to his creepy behavior at the wedding,( YES it was creepy)  but also his arrest record and protection order violations, they just didn’t disclose that on camera. Of course they told Billi though.  Which means this is producer influenced. Ariana is not getting a good edit this season. 

I am quite certain Billie has watched the show and kept up with the gossip.  Billie still went out with him.  The only thing changing was Billie was once excited and then had to kind of deflated because Jeremy hits on everyone.   

I always wish Katie and Ariana could be friends since Tom and Tom are friends.  Kristen and Stassi just don't seem to be  a good mix with the group any longer.  They seem to thrive on this revenge behavior.  Doesn't Katie see it isn't healthy?

I guess what the polling audience was conveying last night with both the thumbs up to Sandoval and thumbs down to Scheana interfering with Britney and Jax, is these folks need to stay in their own lane. 

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Brittany is acting desperate. The decorated party at Hooters, the drum kit (did she put it together for him?), and now on a glimpse of next weeks episode she’s taking him to Mexico? First it looks like she’s trying to buy his love and second she’s  looks like a doormat. Listening to her mother’s advice is a bit too Duggar-ish for me. 

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Uh Toms defense in the AS is gross. Stassi didn’t look at all comfortable with Jermerys arms around her at all. Shut up Tom!

This episode really bothered me. Since it wasn’t disclosed on camera, as viewers were supposed to take what happened at face value and not the DV charges because we didn’t get any real reference to them but from what I saw, Jermeys behavior was gross.

Also I Again I have to ask.. what was the point of this story? This is a serious issue that the show is trying to make a Stassi versus Ariana and Tom situation. It isn’t. If they wanted their normal fluff episode, they had more footage of Stupid stuff to fill an episode.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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Stassi wasted years in a fucked up relationship with Jax. Then wasted some more years in a fucked up relationship with Patrick. The judgement I detect in her voice when talking about Brittany’s party for Jax is out of place and funny given her dating history. Jax in the romper was entertaining. One thing about the guys in this cast is that they don’t mind being the butt of the joke to entertain others.  

Scheana, shut the hell up. You had a conversation with Jax and managed to make him look like the smart and reasonable one. That’s an impressive feat and not in a good way.

 I don’t have a problem with how Stassi addressed the issue with Billie. It didn’t seem like she was gossiping for the sake of gossiping. She had a first-hand experience with Jeremy that shaped her perception of him. He made her feel uncomfortable and she’s entitled to share that experience with someone who may be going out on a date with him. Of course the context isn’t exactly the same (Stassi wasn’t interested which only magnified how uncomfortable his touching made her, while Billie was interested in him and Billie pretty much confirmed that she was open to intimacy so her response would have likely been different than Stassi) but again, doesn’t mean that Stassi isn’t entitled share her perspective. She wasn’t going off of ‘word around town’.  I don’t agree with Katie using the term ‘predatory’. That term is associated with acts that far surpass unsolicited hugs and conversation so I think it would have served her better to take the extra couple of seconds to describe the situation in another way. It’s also ironic that she accused Ariana of not advocating for women when her best friend Stassi went on a podcast (not sure how the timelines match up) and basically said that the #metoo movement was a witch hunt against men and that no man could make her go down on him (there are a lot of horrible inferences in that statement alone but she made a lot more stupid statements on the matter as well). That said, I don’t think Ariana handled the matter well either. She can’t attest for everything her brother does so to straight up denying it is incredibly wrong on her part. Stassi has her horrible ways but that doesn’t mean I can’t see when she’s being unfairly targeted. Unless there’s more to Billie’s conversation with Lala and Scheana, Scheana’s summary of Billie’s comments seemed exaggerated and totally mis-characterized what Stassi said.

Sandovol, I’ve liked you this season, don’t ruin it with fake facts. Just because Jeremy is Ariana’s brother doesn’t mean that he can’t make mistakes or get into trouble (clearly as his track record would suggest). He totally overstepped the line with how he addressed the situation. Forget what information Scheana shared with the group, Stassi and co. did clarify what was said to Billie and nothing they said accused him of anything heinous. He was going around drunk from woman to woman hitting on them and making physical contact with women who were uninterested in his advances. They didn’t accuse him of raping or sexually molesting anyone.

I’m glad that Brittany did put Jax on the spot. I was also impressed with Jax holding his cool with Brittany when she confessed that she told her dad about him cheating on her. But Jax soon did what Jax does by following up the conversation about his infidelity with things that Brittany does that makes her not perfect (as if her flaws are anywhere near the level of his transgression).  Jax could save himself from a lot of problems if he just learned when the right time is to stop talking. And what’s Scheana doing? She made a big stink about the girls repeating an existing rumour about Rob and she felt that they were interfering in her relationship but she blatantly interferes with someone else’s relationship. I think a good friend is honest but it’s not about imposing your own standards in any way that should make your friends feel lesser than if they don’t listen to you. Telling your friend they deserve better can be done without intentionally making them feel shitty about their situation and in some ways, put pressure on them to make decisions that too influenced by others.

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35 minutes ago, janie2002 said:

The aftershow is skirting that he has a DV record and just saying of he is around hot "biches" all the time he didnt really want her. Idiots, this is why woman keep their mouths shut about gross men, the get told to loosen up, or he could get a hotter girl than you so you should love any attention a man gives you

All that clip did is remind me that those 3 have glossed over, rationalized and lied for each other on more than one occasion. 

Why should this be any different?

And Sandavol with his ,Stassi was sad and pouting because she didn' have a date and there were hotter girls than her there, can just stuff it.

Bleh.

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I really feel for Brittany - she’s been fooled by a con man and believes she’s in love with him, when she’s only in love with the con that reeled her in - she’d be far smarter to listen to her father instead of her fame-enthralled mother.

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13 hours ago, PetuniaP said:

Stasis had EVERY right to call Jeremy creepy and warn Billie. News flash, this kind of thing has gone on between women for centuries. A guy creeps on you, you grin, bear it, and hope it ends relatively quickly and painlessly. Thern you warn your good girlfriends. As someone mentioned #metoo, the only difference is that women are openly talking about predatory men rather than just whispering about it. Stassi didn't call the authorities on Jeremy, she warned a friend who was about to go out with him and consume alcohol. That's literally the definition of being a friend. And her account was factchecked by tape! 

 

Ariana and Tom can take several seats.

I'm actually surprised to find I agree with Stassi and Kristen. I don't think what they said to Billie was out of line, and they didn't even really devolve into exaggerating or humiliating Jeremy to get their point across. And guys do the same thing, too, when a friend is interested in a women with a questionable history. I can understand Ariana not wanting to hear this about her brother but (as always on these shows) the correct confrontation is in private while sober. 

So, does James' dad know George Micheal? Because I couldn't tell from the way people talked about him. Even Lisa couldn't just say, "I've known James' dad for years." She has to say, "I met him years ago in the south of France with George Micheal." I wonder if she ever gets tired picking up all the names she drops. Another reason I'd hate living in LA. It's not enough that everyone is materialistic, they have to TELL everyone about their material possessions/lifestyle all the time. Of course all of this changes if in the next episode James' dad walks in with an awkward looking Micheal Cera. 

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11 minutes ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

Yeah, I am not getting this. Stassi is a shitty person so she has no room to complain when some guy is creeping on her?

No. Absolutely not.

Her bad behavior does not, in any way, justify his behavior.

He was touching her after she said to stop. He was in the wrong in that situation. Period. End of story.

I'm not justifying anything; I just don't care! She's a rotten person who doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt! Stassi isn't one of those people who makes mistakes often; she's calculating and goes out of her way to HURT people! Cry me a river someone pawed her in a drunken state! She ought to be lucky to get any attention with the way she's behaved over the years! ;-(

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24 minutes ago, dosodog said:

All that clip did is remind me that those 3 have glossed over, rationalized and lied for each other on more than one occasion. 

Why should this be any different?

And Sandavol with his ,Stassi was sad and pouting because she didn' have a date and there were hotter girls than her there, can just stuff it.

Bleh.

The thing is production must have known he has was acting slimey, to go back and find a snip of it in the background of a shot

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 "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones",

And do you notice how often the glass house and the stones in these situations are not even remotely equivalent?

Oh, forget it--changed my mind. Disgusting.

Edited by TattleTeeny
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1 hour ago, PetuniaP said:

Nope.

What Jeremy actually said was "Who cares, you are a woman now". Which is not correct. Billie isn't a woman "now", she was always a woman. Transgender women were always women. So he's ignorant af and I hope she called him on that. 

Ahh ok I misheard him then.  And he sucks even more, if that were possible. 

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46 minutes ago, dosodog said:

All that clip did is remind me that those 3 have glossed over, rationalized and lied for each other on more than one occasion. 

Why should this be any different?

And Sandavol with his ,Stassi was sad and pouting because she didn' have a date and there were hotter girls than her there, can just stuff it.

Bleh.

Ugh, seriously? I don't watch the aftershow and this time I'm especially grateful I didn't. My affection for Sandoval has taken a total nosedive. And I don't even like Stassi, but what a fucking neanderthal. 

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Ah, ok - but he didn't until this season - and seems to be collateral damage (to his reputation for 15 mins of infamy)

Jeremy was working at SUR last season.

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Also I wonder if this explains with Katie wasn't at his birthday at the beginning of the season.

Good call - I bet you're right. That was weird how there was never any mention as to why Katie wasn't there.

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And Tom saying “he’s been through a lot these past few months..” they have to know.

I'm curious as to what he meant by that, since the DV charges against Jeremy happened years ago.

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Lets all take a chill pill and be rational for a moment!

...says the one who yells every single sentence. Rich.

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I find twitter to be hard to follow, but apparently Kristin and Ariana are twitter pals, but Ariana and Katie are feuding, and Stassi seems to be silent about the whole episode.  I'm surprised that Stassi isn't commenting on it at all.

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Since Scheana was a bridesmaid,  I wonder if she knew/had previously said more about how Jeremy acted and that's why she booked it out of there so fast so she wouldn't be brought into it

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1 hour ago, Fiero425 said:

I'm not justifying anything; I just don't care! She's a rotten person who doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt! Stassi isn't one of those people who makes mistakes often; she's calculating and goes out of her way to HURT people! Cry me a river someone pawed her in a drunken state! She ought to be lucky to get any attention with the way she's behaved over the years! ;-(

Off topic, but curious. Why do you put a ;-( at the end of every post? Does it mean you're just joking?

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16 hours ago, Mr. Minor said:

The superwoman Lala act is getting tired.

I'm sick of her talking about how BOMB EVERYONES PUSSYS are. Like... great you're such a worldly feminist we get it. Sit down. She's also always trying to fight for what she thinks is right but typically no one even asked her so I don't understand why she feels the need to insert herself into everybody's issues. 

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2 hours ago, PetuniaP said:

Nope.

What Jeremy actually said was "Who cares, you are a woman now". Which is not correct. Billie isn't a woman "now", she was always a woman. Transgender women were always women. So he's ignorant af and I hope she called him on that. 

It's only ignorant if you assume the worst out of what he was saying. His comments came out of a conversation where Billie was speaking about her misgivings about explaining her identity to people. I interpreted his comments to mean that she was fully out and very obvious that she was living her life as a woman therefore she didn't owe an explanation because she's a woman, should be treated as such and that's that. I can't confirm what his knowledge is on gender identity but between the two of us it's clear that it's possible to take a single comment and interpret it both positively and negatively. Maybe if Billie had reacted negatively or felt the need to correct him, I would have agreed that his comment was both intended to be sweet but still ignorant. Given that her immediate reaction seemed to be genuinely appreciative of his words, I'm willing to lean on the side that says that it wasn't an ignorant comment, but it's also not a comment that can stand alone without the context of everything else.

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Jeremy is creepy...James’ dad is even creepier. DJ Muppet Baby might want to consider throwing him a little VP cash so he can do something with those teeth.

And James - “Lackey/Hanger-On” to George Michael does not mean “Manager”. Apparently GM never spoke to him again after like 1998 anyway. You were six - get over it...

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4 hours ago, Otherkate said:

I think - for a change - Stassi was being careful with what she was saying about Jeremy. And I think that's part of why she freaked out and said she was tired of "defending men".

This was a VERY bad look for Sandoval. Honestly, I don't think I can look at him the same way again. He was the perfect example of why women don't report abuse and harassment. Not only did he straight up call them liars, I found his tone to be aggressive and completely outrageous. Fuck him.

Also - Katie, you need a new husband. 

I am not saying I want him cyberbullied, but I hope he's taking it on the chin on SM over this so he at least has to think about his reactions and how he acted in the situation because he really seemed to think he did no wrong on WWHL.

4 hours ago, Fiero425 said:

Poor victimized Stassi! No matter what Jeremy did, it'll never come close to the rotten behavior over such a long period of time by Stassi! She's cried wolf so many times, there are people who couldn't care less what she has to say; even if she's right! You would think she was assaulted or murdered; unless her excuse makers truly are her and Kristen! Hmmm, maybe that's it because I feel like "cry me a river" when it comes to her feeling bad about anything! I won't ever forget the years of her trying to sabotage, punish, and undermine her so called friends which is exactly what some of you are trying to do; notwithstanding proof of Jeremy being annoying! Like none of them get drunk and act a fool! The hypocrisy of it all! ;-(

Besides that, did you see how she was dressed?  She was totally asking for it.  And bitches get what they deserve.

4 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm surprised that Jeremy's behavior at that wedding didn't result in him going home with a bonus prize of a dislocated jaw.  

Especially knowing that Kristen has a mean right hook and isn't afraid to use it at wedding receptions.

2 hours ago, Fiero425 said:

I'm not justifying anything; I just don't care! She's a rotten person who doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt! Stassi isn't one of those people who makes mistakes often; she's calculating and goes out of her way to HURT people! Cry me a river someone pawed her in a drunken state! She ought to be lucky to get any attention with the way she's behaved over the years! ;-(

Wow.

1 minute ago, Jennifersdc said:

Jeremy is creepy...James’ dad is even creepier. DJ Muppet Baby might want to consider throwing him a little VP cash so he can do something with those teeth.

And James - “Lackey/Hanger-On” to George Michael does not mean “Manager”. Apparently GM never spoke to him again after like 1998 anyway. You were six - get over it...

I don't recall seeing James' dad perpetrate any unwanted groping.  I recall him being unattractive and oafish though.  I guess that's worse than repeatedly pawing at women that don't want it and telling them it's okay while you are doing it. 

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40 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

So now not only does it not matter that she was forced into an extra long hug with someone she clearly didn't want to be hugged by, because she's a bitch, so it doesn't matter what happens to her....but now she should be GRATEFUL that a man, any man, is willing to put his hands on her??? Wow. No words. 

 

Why isn't there a nice, middle ground between "I hate my body" and "My pussy is so amazing!"???

lol like my pussy is cute but has a great sense of humor?

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Another small thing that bothers me about this whole situation is that Tom, Aririna, Schena were demanding that Stassi and the other women weren’t allowed to feel uncomfortable with the attention or being hugged(some people don’t like being touched or hugged), it bothers me, you don’t get to decide how other people feel or if something made them uncomfortable. That bothered me so much and yet neither Arinia at dinner or Tom at the apartment listened.

I think stassis been quiet on social media because she’s on a trip right now and probably doesn’t care. Kristen posted on her jnatastory that Arinia unblocked her around the episode airing last night. I haven’t looked into anyone else although on Arinia instastory, he posted she was hanging out with Jermery.

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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And he wasn't just hugging.  In the wedding video Stassi is actively trying to walk away and he pulls her back to him and envelopes her and keeps her from leaving.

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2 hours ago, Fiero425 said:

I'm not justifying anything; I just don't care! She's a rotten person who doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt! Stassi isn't one of those people who makes mistakes often; she's calculating and goes out of her way to HURT people! Cry me a river someone pawed her in a drunken state! She ought to be lucky to get any attention with the way she's behaved over the years! ;-(

So do you mean that given Stassi's history that you think she's exaggerating her experience with Jeremy or are you saying because of her history and who you think she is as a person, it doesn't matter what he did to her because she deserves it for being a horrible person? For the record, I don't personally agree with either of those scenarios but I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here because between those two scenarios, one implies much worse than the other.

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2 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

And he wasn't just hugging.  In the wedding video Stassi is actively trying to walk away and he pulls her back to him and envelopes her and keeps her from leaving.

YES. He was forcing her to stay in the situation when she clearly didn't want to. And that is tame compared to things I read about his DV past. 

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5 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

And he wasn't just hugging.  In the wedding video Stassi is actively trying to walk away and he pulls her back to him and envelopes her and keeps her from leaving.

This has nothing really to do with the actual subject but... I always remember a scene in Big little lies lately where the kids were given a stuffed animal in clas s and told to introduce Themesleves and hug it and one little girl asked if the stuffed animal liked to be hugged. I remember thinking it was odd even commenting on the forums about it being odd that a first grader would ask that. But then I thought about how whenever I’m about to hug someone for the first time, I Either always ask if it’s okay. It’s just something my subconscious does automatically and it isn’t because of anything that happens to me, it’s just.. I know consent is important. And that’s a big thing that irritates me is the fact that both Tom and Aririna demand that the other women’s feelings weren’t important and that no, they didn’t feel that way! 

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5 minutes ago, MrsWitter said:

Unwanted touching isn't "attention"- it's assault. No woman who is assaulted is "lucky." I keep hoping you're just trolling us, but I actually think you seem to hold these horrific, damaging, retrograde ideas that show no understanding of women or the experiences of women in society. This isn't just about Stassi and, despite what everyone on here has tried to explain to you, you can't get that through your head. I guess I really should just go "take a chill pill" since it seems I might need it to get through more of your repetitive  screeching about how horrible Stassi is.  Instead of "it's not about the pasta," we need to all be screaming, "it's not about Stassi!"

This.

At this point, I just wish these scenes were never edited into an episode. It’s an important topic. But it’s not meant to be on this show. I very much doubt we will ever venture back to this topic(if they prove me wrong, then we will see). This show wasn’t meant to do a topic like this or even address it, because next week were back to the gang all in Mexico and Jax and Brittany’s 15th fight and this situation just being another bridge of Stassi versus everyone.

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8 minutes ago, MrsWitter said:

Unwanted touching isn't "attention"- it's assault. No woman who is assaulted is "lucky." I keep hoping you're just trolling us, but I actually think you seem to hold these horrific, damaging, retrograde ideas that show no understanding of women or the experiences of women in society. This isn't just about Stassi and, despite what everyone on here has tried to explain to you, you can't get that through your head. I guess I really should just go "take a chill pill" since it seems I might need it to get through more of your repetitive  screeching about how horrible Stassi is.  Instead of "it's not about the pasta," we need to all be screaming, "it's not about Stassi!"

...and you're doing the same in the opposite direction giving Stassi every benefit of the doubt! Let's agree to disagree; HAPPY? I know I'm over this conversation; we'll never see eye to eye! ;-)

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1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This.

At this point, I just wish these scenes were never edited into an episode. It’s an important topic. But it’s not meant to be on this show. I very much doubt we will ever venture back to this topic(if they prove me wrong, then we will see). This show wasn’t meant to do a topic like this or even address it, because next week were back to the gang all in Mexico and Jax and Brittany’s 15th fight and this situation just being another bridge of Stassi versus everyone.

You've made this point multiple times and I think it is so important. Why the heck did they introduce this storyline briefly only to drop it? They are clearly not capable of handling it in a responsible manner.  Maybe this is Bravo's ham-handed way of "contributing" to the #metoo discussion? I think you're asking such good questions and I don't get it either.  I keep hoping if enough people show some form of outrage, they might actually be forced to discuss it at the reunion, but my hope is probably misplaced.

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You guys!  We all just need to take a minute and put ourselves in Jeremy's shoes and think about how he feels in all this.

I know most women posting here won't need to do the same with Stassi because, sadly, we've probably all lived it or possibly worse.

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Yeah I don’t think we’re giving Stassi benefit of the doubt when we were shown what he did. We saw a clip of what had happened. If the show hadn’t of shown that and it was just Stassi telling the story then that’s where it would be blurry. For me we were shown a moment of what had happened, and from Stassis face, it seemed to be like the moment we were shown was not the first incident, granted that’s my perception but all the same we saw enough where Stassi looked uncomfortable.

And again.. I’m not going to bring up his DV charges, I know about that and I think thoughts on them but I will do what the show asks me and take what I saw at face value. I will also take into account that it must be hard for Tom and Arinia to hear things about her brother but at the same time, let’s say he was being handsy because he had been drinking, as I said in an earlier post, had either Tom or Arinia listened to what the others were trying to say they could have responded differently. It even seemed like Schwartz was trying to say that to Tom, I heard him say something like “it was one night, you know” or something before Tom started yelling in “watch yourself! Check your facts”

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...and you're doing the same in the opposite direction giving Stassi every benefit of the doubt! Let's agree to disagree; HAPPY? I know I'm over this conversation; we'll never see eye to eye! ;-)

 

What exactly is the "doubt" that people are giving Stassi the benefit of? There's a video of Jeremy telling Stassi to stop looking at him strangely and that he'll stop hitting on her now, while locking his arm around her and pulling her close while she looks extremely uncomfortable and tries to pull away. Are we supposed to doubt our eyes and ears? Even without video, I'd believe Stassi, Kristen and Katie because I believe women when they talk about the ways in which their persons have been transgressed by men. Men lost "the benefit of the doubt" long ago. 

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