Who's related to whom? Family trees gone wild

[Silver Raven]

I was thinking about Maggie being Julie's aunt the other day, so I thought I would start this thread to discuss who is related to whom.

Maggie was married to Mickey Horton, who was the brother of Julie and Hope's mother Addy, so that makes Maggie Julie and Hope's aunt (by marriage).  Since Mickey and Addy were also siblings to Bill Horton, that makes Maggie the aunt of Lucas and Jennifer, too.  So she's great-aunt to Ciara, Sean Douglas, Abigail, JJ, and Will.  And great-great-aunt to Thomas, Arianna, and Eli.

John's children are Brady, Paul, and Belle.  Brady is also a first cousin to Ciara and Sean Douglas, because their father, Bo, is his uncle.  That means that Brady is not only the uncle to Claire since his sister is her mother, he is also her first cousin once removed, since Sean Douglas is his cousin.

[Vince1178]

I love the crazy family trees on soaps. Any time they hint at a romantic relationship between two characters, I start to mentally plot out their genealogies just to make sure they are not related. It's insane. Of course, that's never really an issue. But sometimes it's a little too close for comfort in my book.

Take Trip, for example. He is Steve's and Ava's son. So he's not actually related by blood to the two women he's most likely to be paired up with. But Steve is Ciara's uncle through marriage. Which makes Trip her cousin through marriage. And since Ciara is Claire's aunt, Claire is not too far removed from that particular branch of the family tree either. Sure, there's no actual blood relation between Trip and these women, but ... who really wants to date their cousin?

I also think that these tangled family trees cause some (female) characters to be unjustly criticized for dating too many men. Both Gabi and Nicole fall into this camp. I see comments that suggest other viewers find them a bit too promiscuous. But I'd wager that's about the fact they're related by blood to so few characters and are thus able to date more freely. Someone like Abigail, for example, has far fewer options. She's related by blood to Eli and JJ and Trip and Will and Sonny and just about any man in her age bracket besides Chad and Stefan. Meanwhile, Gabi can (and in many cases has) date any of the men I listed.

[JBC344]

My issue with Gabi is that outside of Chad all of her pairings have been with Horton men. 

To me that should be a clear sign to the writers that they need new characters. 

Pairings through marriage don't bother me as mich because you can't be so strict.

Tripp with either Ciara or Claire are fine because they aren't particularly close to Steve and didn't grow up with Tripp. He is more like their aunt's step son than a cousin. 

[FnkyChkn34]

On soap operas, I feel like they basically have to ignore relationships that are only by marriage.  Otherwise, everyone literally would be related to everyone else.  I'm amazed that they usually remember adopted children.  But now that I say that, didn't Stephanie date Max?  Her uncle by adoption?

[Apprentice79]

10 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

On soap operas, I feel like they basically have to ignore relationships that are only by marriage.  Otherwise, everyone literally would be related to everyone else.  I'm amazed that they usually remember adopted children.  But now that I say that, didn't Stephanie date Max?  Her uncle by adoption?

Yes, she did. He also dated Chelsea, his other niece. There is footage of Max, as a kid, holding, Stefanie, as a baby and calling her, his niece. It was jarring, to see them, dating. I thought that it was gross. Max and Frankie getting adopted by Shawn and Caroline was a great story that tied perfectly in Steve and Kayla's love story. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Apprentice79

[FnkyChkn34]

2 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

Yes, she did. He also dated Chelsea, his other niece. There is footage of Max as a kid, holding, Stefanie, as a baby and calling her, his niece. It was jarring, to see them, dating. I thought that it was gross. 

I remember being grossed out too. By both, now that I remember Chelsea also. 

[nilyank]

14 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

But now that I say that, didn't Stephanie date Max?  Her uncle by adoption?

Max dated Stephanie and Chelsea. Both his nieces.

[Apprentice79]

1 minute ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I remember being grossed out too. By both, now that I remember Chelsea also. 

You can look the other way with Chelsea in a way because she did not exist, as he was growing up. However, Stefanie was a big No. He was there when she was born. He probably interacted with her, as she was growing up in LA with Kim and Kayla.

[JBC344]

Off camera Max and Chelsea are still a couple living in London.  Not that this matters but did Caroline and Shawn actually adopt Frankie and Max or just take them in and raise them?  Not that it diminishes their family bond.  I just don't know officially.

[nilyank]

33 minutes ago, JBC344 said:

Off camera Max and Chelsea are still a couple living in London.  Not that this matters but did Caroline and Shawn actually adopt Frankie and Max or just take them in and raise them?  Not that it diminishes their family bond.  I just don't know officially.

They were officially adopted by Caroline and Shawn. It was only many years later that he found out who were Frankie and Max's birth parents.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, JBC344 said:

Off camera Max and Chelsea are still a couple living in London.

That's gross. 

[Apprentice79]

2 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Off camera Max and Chelsea are still a couple living in London.  Not that this matters but did Caroline and Shawn actually adopt Frankie and Max or just take them in and raise them?  Not that it diminishes their family bond.  I just don't know officially.

Yes, they did adopt them officially. Kayla and Steve facilitated that.  Frankie and Max were going to be separated by the system and Steve was determined to keep them together. He did not want them to suffer, the way that he had when he was separated from Jack at the orphanage..

Edited March 9, 2018 by Apprentice79

[JBC344]

Thanks everyone.  I couldn't remember. 

[methodwriter85]

I could have sworn that back in the early says of WilSon, someone mentioned Sonny and Will being cousins. I don't know enough about familial relationships on this show to plot it out, though.

In that case though, it really isn't going to matter. As Dan Savage once put it, two male cousins are only going to be making messes, not babies.

Edited April 17, 2018 by methodwriter85

[plurie]

Sonny's mother, Adrienne, is Jack's sister. Will's father, Lucas, is the (half) brother of Jennifer, who was married to Jack.

[swtrgrl]

6 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I could have sworn that back in the early says of WilSon, someone mentioned Sonny and Will being cousins. I don't know enough about familial relationships on this show to plot it out, though.

In that case though, it really isn't going to matter. As Dan Savage once put it, two male cousins are only going to be making messes, not babies.

 

1 hour ago, plurie said:

Sonny's mother, Adrienne, is Jack's sister. Will's father, Lucas, is the (half) brother of Jennifer, who was married to Jack.

Yeah, by marriage. It's not a thing. And, frankly...they won't be procreating together like a het couple so it wouldn't have mattered really. If they surrogate, etc... it'd be one of their sperm and someone else's egg, etc... no worries. LOL

[JBC344]

Actually the Wilson "related" aspect would actually come more from Victor and Kate.  This backstory of Sonny and Victor being super close would of been during the time that he was married to Kate and Kate was Sonny's Aunt.  Making Will and Sonny step-cousins.  But since TPTB don't acknowledge that Kate and Victor were married for years that relationship never gets mentioned. 

When Sonny and Will first met, they commented that they have heard of each other through Abigail, which while plausible, seemed a little off because they would of already known of each other through Victor during Will and Sonny's childhoods.

[Silver Raven]

Paul is Will's step-uncle.

[Apprentice79]

5 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Actually the Wilson "related" aspect would actually come more from Victor and Kate.  This backstory of Sonny and Victor being super close would of been during the time that he was married to Kate and Kate was Sonny's Aunt.  Making Will and Sonny step-cousins.  But since TPTB don't acknowledge that Kate and Victor were married for years that relationship never gets mentioned. 

When Sonny and Will first met, they commented that they have heard of each other through Abigail, which while plausible, seemed a little off because they would of already known of each other through Victor during Will and Sonny's childhoods.

However, Kate and Victor were not married that long. Plus, Adrienne and Justin did not want to raise their four sons under Victor's influence. Victor's toxic presence nearly destroyed them and Adrienne almost died in a mob hit.  It is why they moved to Texas, where Sonny was born.  That was part of Adrienne's conditions, when she reconciled with Justin. 

I never had a problem with Sonny and Will not having met as kids.  Sonny is much older than him, even though the show downplayed that, when they got together.  It made sense that they knew of each other via Abigail, but, never actually met. Will also lived in Europe with Austin and Carrie, after he shot EJ.  Adrienne, Justin along with their sons moved back to Salem, when Will was Europe. We never actually saw them onscreen. We had Victor referencing his great-nephews, his happiness in having them around.  Then, a few months later, Victor said that they had returned to Texas. I assume that whatever plans that the show had had to cast the boys were scrapped.  A few years later, Sonny was cast and Wilson finally met..

Edited April 17, 2018 by Apprentice79

[JBC344]

2 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Paul is Will's step-uncle.

Once John and Marlena actually marry.

[JBC344]

2 minutes ago, Apprentice79 said:

However, Kate and Victor were not married that long. Plus, Adrienne and Justin did not want to raise their four sons under Victor's influence. Victor's toxic presence nearly destroyed them and Adrienne almost died in a mob hit.  It is why they moved to Texas, where Sonny was born.  That was part of Adrienne's conditions, when she reconciled with Justin. 

I never had a problem with Sonny and Will not having met as kids.  Sonny is much older than him, even though the show downplayed that, when they got together.  It made sense that they knew of each other via Abigail, but, never actually met. Will also lived in Europe with Austin and Carrie, after he shot EJ.  Adrienne, Justin along with their sons moved back to Salem, when Will was Europe. We never actually saw them onscreen. We had Victor referencing his great-nephews, how happy to have them around.  Then, a few months later, Victor said that they had returned to Texas. I assume that whatever plans that the show had had to cast the boys were scrapped.  A few years later, Sonny was cast and Wilson finally met..

Well "how long" is really dependent on how much we factor in SORASING, Phillip's that is.

Also Sonny isn't that much older than Will. Maybe 4 years at the most.

Regardless, my point is that TPTB, have gone out of their way to establish that Sonny and Victor have this special bond and have always been close while Sonny was growing up. In order for that to be true most of that bonding would of had to take place during the years that Victor and Kate were together. 

Them meeting is one thing but they should of been aware of each other through Victor and Kate, especially considering the amount of time Will spent being raised in the Kiriakis mansion. 

[Apprentice79]

6 hours ago, JBC344 said:

Well "how long" is really dependent on how much we factor in SORASING, Phillip's that is.

Also Sonny isn't that much older than Will. Maybe 4 years at the most.

Regardless, my point is that TPTB, have gone out of their way to establish that Sonny and Victor have this special bond and have always been close while Sonny was growing up. In order for that to be true most of that bonding would of had to take place during the years that Victor and Kate were together. 

Them meeting is one thing but they should of been aware of each other through Victor and Kate, especially considering the amount of time Will spent being raised in the Kiriakis mansion. 

True. I get your point.  I did like Abigail being the one that connected them. These days relatives usually find each other on social media, especially, the younger ones. 

It would have also been possible for Wilson to have met as kids and not remember it, since they were so young. I am sure that Justin and Adrienne used to visit Victor with their large brood, when he was married to Kate.  

[RachelKM]

Will spent a significant portion of his youth living with Carrie and Austin in Switzerland. 

[JBC344]

That was only about a 6 month period at most.  It was during the height of the Brady Dimera war and Sami and Lucas sent him there to be safe.  It was right before they slightly SORASED him.

[RachelKM]

Will was in Switzerland from 2007 - 2009. 

[swtrgrl]

Between the "by marriage" and "step" factors, I have zero issues with any PillSon hookups. If Will had grown up with Paul as his step uncle, maybe. MAYBE. But I read too much crazy stuff to be bothered. WilSon didn't grow up together as cousins. Will was in Europe with Carrie and Austin. When he came back to Salem, Sonny had been off gallivanting around the world. 

[nilyank]

5 hours ago, JBC344 said:

That was only about a 6 month period at most.  It was during the height of the Brady Dimera war and Sami and Lucas sent him there to be safe.  It was right before they slightly SORASED him

Lucas sent him to Switzerland. Sami did not find out or get a chance to speak to Will by the time that he already left Salem. Will doesn't come back until Sami is out of witness protection and has Grace with her.

[Apprentice79]

6 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Will was in Switzerland from 2007 - 2009. 

Sonny and his family moved back to Salem during that time. They were unseen, but, referenced. Then, they left. 

[JBC344]

12 hours ago, RachelKM said:

Will was in Switzerland from 2007 - 2009. 

Wow, thanks.  I hadn't realized it was almost two years.  Regardless, two years isn't what I would call a significant portion, but anyway that wasn't my overall point.  Will may have been out of town when Sonny was in Salem for a short amount of time but that doesn't discount my point that both people were in the same family at the same time for many years so it would reason that they would of heard of each other.

Yes, it makes sense that they also heard of each other through Abigail, but at that point they should of already knew whom the other was regardless if they haven't met one another. 

[boes]

12 hours ago, swtrgrl said:

Between the "by marriage" and "step" factors, I have zero issues with any PillSon hookups. If Will had grown up with Paul as his step uncle, maybe. MAYBE. But I read too much crazy stuff to be bothered. WilSon didn't grow up together as cousins. Will was in Europe with Carrie and Austin. When he came back to Salem, Sonny had been off gallivanting around the world. 

Agreed.  They're not related by blood and never will be.  And in this town, step relations come and go very quickly.  

Where I come from, a cousin of a cousin means nothing other than they're not part of your Christmas gift exchange, and you only have to go to their funerals if the after burial lunch spread is good.

[Apprentice79]

43 minutes ago, boes said:

Agreed.  They're not related by blood and never will be.  And in this town, step relations come and go very quickly.  

Where I come from, a cousin of a cousin means nothing other than they're not part of your Christmas gift exchange, and you only have to go to their funerals if the after burial lunch spread is good.

Lol..I agree with that in Salem.

In real life,  I grew up with lots of cousins who are not blood related and it would be gross, if we dated each other.. That is how it is in the Caribbean..