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The Crazed Spruce

S02.E07: AKA I Want Your Cray Cray

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• So while they were able to cure the burn damage they weren’t able to give her the same appearance as before. At least that explains why Jessica did not recognise her own mother. 

• It took until Jessica mentioned Trish should have been in college with her for me to realise that scene was also a flashback. Their fight outside the club was tough :( . Although the fact they came back from that shows the strength of their friendship lol. 

• Sterling was a jerk and an utter user as shown by his willingness to allow those thugs to utilise Jessica, his decision to use her friendship with Trish to try and get money and encouraging her to break into that store. Poor Jessica carrying around the guilt for his death when it wasn’t her fault :( 

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@Wayward Son I wondered if we were also supposed to think that he was using Jessica to get to Trish the whole time. That was certainly the impression I got with all of his “family” talk. All in all, murder is bad, but HulkMom probably did Jessica a favor there.

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I liked young Trish and young Jessica; I mean, they were a mess, but both actresses did a great job. However, the boyfriend feels like an afterthought. 

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3 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I liked young Trish and young Jessica; I mean, they were a mess, but both actresses did a great job. However, the boyfriend feels like an afterthought. 

It really is amazing how much Krysten Ritter was able to make the pre-Killgrave Jessica in the flashback look not only younger but a much happier and well adjusted person. It seemed like it was just her facial expressions and the way she walked and carried seen herself but I totally boughy that she was a lot younger. Reminded me of how Jon Hamm could pull off the same thing in Mad Men flashbacks.

Also intereting how Jessica feels about Trish's substance abuse issues but doesn't seem to have the same feelings about her own drinking issues.

And speaking of Killgrave, interesting that Mom saved Jessica from Sterlin g but wasn't there to save her from Killgrave.

Lastly how could they give us a flashback ep, without an It's Patsy footage?

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I like that Jessica had named Alias Investigations after the guy, even though he turned out to be an ass. It's so strange and sad to see Jessica before Kilgrave. She always had issues, but she used to smile and wear colors and be playful with her boyfriend and want to study. Really well done episode showing the difference. Add Sterling's death to the list of things that hardened Jessica.

 

This is my favorite episode of the season so far. And I'm gonna have that damn song stuck in my head for days now.

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Am I the only one who immediately thought of the opening number to Crazy Ex-Girlfriend when they played the "I Want Your Cray-Cray" video?

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5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It really is amazing how much Krysten Ritter was able to make the pre-Killgrave Jessica in the flashback look not only younger but a much happier and well adjusted person. It seemed like it was just her facial expressions and the way she walked and carried seen herself but I totally boughy that she was a lot younger. Reminded me of how Jon Hamm could pull off the same thing in Mad Men flashbacks.

She really did seem like a young girl in her early 20's. I was impressed, especially the line about how dope the club would be. I remember "dope" was making a big comeback back around the late 00's/early 10's, where I'm assuming this episode is taking place.

Trish did not, but even if her character was chronologically 22 or so, she was really about 40. Girl definitely felt like a Lindsey Lohan. And the "Cray Cray" video definitely had a Duchess Fergie/Blackout Britney vibe.

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Krysten Ritter is a great actress, I've seen her in other things Gia in Veronica Mars and Chloe in Don't Trust the B in Apt 23. Jessica is nothing like those characters. Even when she's playing Jessica pre-Killgrave. Like last seasons flashback I like that Jessica was not a completely different person, she was still cynical and serious in the past, but you could see she was a little more carefree and able to smile more and enjoy herself. 

It's interesting to learn where Jessica got her business name and her leather jacket. It's too bad she didn't know that guy was kind of user. 

Edited by Sakura12
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8 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It's interesting to learn where Jessica got her business name and her leather jacket. It's too bad she didn't know that guy was kind of user. 

 

It would have been hilarious if they had gotten Aaron Paul to play Sterling. Although maybe too hilarious, but he probably could have played that character in his sleep.

Also was Alissa Jones the name of Jessica's mom in the Alias comic? Because Alyssa Jones was Joey Lauren Adams's character in Chasing Amy.

Edited by Kel Varnsen

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29 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It would have been hilarious if they had gotten Aaron Paul to play Sterling. Although maybe too hilarious, but he probably could have played that character in his sleep.

Also was Alissa Jones the name of Jessica's mom in the Alias comic? Because Alyssa Jones was Joey Lauren Adams's character in Chasing Amy.

I think in comics Alisa Jones is her adoptive mom. Jessica was a Campbell before in comics, hence the middle name here.

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1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

It would have been hilarious if they had gotten Aaron Paul to play Sterling. Although maybe too hilarious, but he probably could have played that character in his sleep.

That would've been great. They can keep up the dating each other kills the other going. Lol. 

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Aww poor Jess. Her life sucked. But she's still a good human being.

 

I was cackling at the cringy Patsy Walker music video, LMAO. 

 

But it really is nice to see the great and complicated relationship between Jess and Trish.

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I felt like Sterling really meant he was trying to keep from getting killed/assbeat.  He was one guy, alone, against 3 with no reason to believe help would be there in time.  But he was clearly also a bit of a user living on Jess' powers and trying to find another investor to fleece.

Edited by areca
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What a good way to use a flashback episode. Jumping between Alisa and Jessica/Trish was smart. Knowing more about what Alisa went through help put sympathy on her. Basically being unconscious or in a coma on and off for five years? And then taking probably another several more years to get herself under control before she had to escape in order to see her daughter? Brutal. 

So, Alisa did meet Dorothy and then likely gave her bad advice by convincing her to stick around in Trish's life. Good job, Alisa! 

I do think Stirling was a bit of a user, but I also think he liked Jessica. Either way, it was nice to see her in a relationship, as dysfunctional as it was, before he got killed by Alisa. I doubt he would have been able to take on the three guys alone. I assume they were probably packing, and Stirling didn't seem to use any guns himself. Which is why I think I buy what he told Alisa, that he was stalling for time. It was nice to see how much he did impact Jessica's life, with the Alias Investigations being named after him. 

Also, young Trish looks a lot like Nicole Kidman.

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22 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I think in comics Alisa Jones is her adoptive mom. Jessica was a Campbell before in comics, hence the middle name here.

I only read a few Alias comics so i did not know that.  I also just realized that the word Alias is just this spelling of Alisa with the a and the s swapped.

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Stirling may have been a user a bit but I thought he genuinely liked/loved Jessica. I was waiting the whole ep. for him to die. She was too happy. So of course he had to die.

It was odd seeing Jess looking somewhat happy with life. Normally she is so angry but flash back Jess was actually smiling. Wild.

The last scene with Jess and Trish was really good. Probably my fav. scene of theirs ever.

Interesting to see how she got her leather jacket and name for the PI business.

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On 3/13/2018 at 4:01 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

I only read a few Alias comics so i did not know that.  I also just realized that the word Alias is just this spelling of Alisa with the a and the s swapped.

It was clearly named for the club Sterling was handing out cards for, IMHO.

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Oh, shit, Jessica used to date Connor from Revolution!  Knew he wasn't going to make it out of this episode alive.  Still not sure if he was being sincere at the end with his claims that he was just offering up Jessica to get the guys off of his back.  I do think he truly cared and even loved Jessica, but I did get the sense he wasn't against using her to get what he needed to open the bar.  Still a brutal way to go.  And Jessica blamed herself even though it was actually her mother!

"I Want You Cray-Cray" might be alongside Hakeem's "Drip Drop" from Empire as one of the best bad songs in television history!  So auto-tuned that I wonder if Rachael Taylor sung it herself, since it really wouldn't matter if she had the pipes for it or not.  But like with the song mentioned above, it is totally a song that I think would totally have been a hit in real life considering the way pop songs are now.

So, Alisa really did have to get her face changed due to being so badly burnt by the accident.  Decent way to explain why Jessica didn't recognize her.  Interesting seeing he origin story and where this will lead.  I do think she is sorry for what she did, but I don't blame Jessica at all for not wanting to forgive her.

Loved all the Jessica/Trish stuff.  Krysten Ritter and Rachael Taylor really work well together.

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On 3/12/2018 at 8:56 AM, Sakura12 said:

Krysten Ritter is a great actress, I've seen her in other things Gia in Veronica Mars and Chloe in Don't Trust the B in Apt 23. Jessica is nothing like those characters. 

 

Totally agree,  but then again,  she and Chloe aren't exactly dissimilar.

Edited by Delphi

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Awwww, it was so nice to see Jessica happy and smiling in the flashbacks with Stirling!

I mentioned this when I watched S1, but one of the reasons I didn't bother watching this show initially is because the only thing I'd seen Krysten Ritter in before was Veronica Mars and she was not great. But seeing how easily she changed her demeanor to younger Jessica just shows how wrong I was to base my entire judgment of her acting skills on Gia Goodman. Even though Jessica had the same clothes, hair, and makeup, young Jessica was clearly different in so many ways. Her posture, her attitude, her facial expressions, everything.

Trish also seemed younger but she got the easier task of seeming different because she was high most of the time. I did love when Jessica brought Stirling to the club to meet her and she turned into a squealing teenager who's excited about her friend's new boyfriend (even despite the fact that the last time she spoke to Jessica they were fighting and saying they didn't need each other). She did a good job of making Trish seem immature. She also looked immediately ashamed when Jessica walked into the bathroom and found her with that guy.

Her Britney-esque video was hilarious to watch!

Poor Jessica. Finding out that the mom who you thought was dead accidentally killed your boyfriend who may have been trying to pimp out your powers to some shady guys he owed money to has to be rough.

I think that Stirling genuinely liked Jessica but that he wasn't above trying to use opportunities that came his way through her. I don't think his ulterior motive in dating Jess and letting her move in with him was to meet Trish so he could get her to invest in his club, and I think that even when he suggested meeting her that wasn't his ultimate goal. Given how guarded Jessica was, even with him (not wanting to tell him her middle name), I think he really just wanted to meet her sister to get to know more about Jessica. In both instances, other people brought up the subject first (Jessica mentioned that she hadn't met his family and Trish said that he looked familiar).

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Really enjoyed this episode and it reminded me of why Jessica/Trish is one of my favorite friendships and one of the best TV friendships around.  Agreed about KR, who was convincing as a younger, happier version of JJ. 

Stirling....was definitely a user and it's hard to know whether he really would have (tried) to "pimp" Jessica out or if he was just doing that to get those thugs off his back.  He did seem to convincingly care about her though.  Either way, that whole episode goes further into explaining why Jessica is the way that she is.

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That whole ep was unnecessary. The biological mom is a creation of the doc, already knew that. Jessica has bad taste in men, was adopted and became bitter about her powers years ago. Uh-huh. She and Patsy fought in the past. Yep. A rando died. OK. If we had skipped the entire episode, would we have missed anything important? 

It’s a good thing the doc keeps getting lucky with the needle to the back of the neck of the super powered survivor. 

I still don’t find the villain scary. She is more a victim of what was done to her than a purposeful bad guy. At least so far. 

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I'm never a big fan of flashback episodes, and this one was no different. It was bad.

The stuff with Jessica's mother doesn't interest me much, because I'm not interested in Jessica's mother. She's bad news, no matter how you slice it, and all that's going to happen is her suckering Jessica in before hurting her even more. That's her sole reason for existing. There is no way this season ends with them even attempting to play happy families.

I did like how well Krysten Ritter and Racheal Taylor portrayed younger versions of their characters. Just different body language, slightly different mannerisms and hugely different attitudes. This central relationship is still where the show always feels strongest. But I'm not keen on all the wrinkles they're throwing in, to set up whatever fall out we're going to get at the end of the season. The drug addiction parallels aren't really subtle, and it feels like they're leaning on Trish being substance dependent more than they were on her really, really wanting to be a hero. Which sucks.

Yes, I buy that Jessica has had to protect Trish from herself in the past, but this was just too big a push in the other direction.

I ended up skipping large parts of this, because I had less than no interest in the bad boy barman that Jessica hooked up with. But I'm sorry, you can't introduce a tragically killed boyfriend that has never been mentioned before, at this stage of a show, and expect me to believe it. 

This was always the danger, after Kilgrave was gone. That they'd keep inventing more trauma and tragedy to justify Jessica still being misanthropic. And it's just breaking my suspension of disbelief, because they're laying it on way too thick. It's very disappointing writing.

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On 3/15/2018 at 10:13 PM, areca said:

It was clearly named for the club Sterling was handing out cards for, IMHO.

But didn't the club name and the business cards come after Sterling and Jessica got together. I am just saying that the spelling of Alias and Alisa being so close is no coincidence. 

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I was sure Stirling was going to die by the end of the episode, I just thought it would be by the hands of Kilgrave.

Not usually a fan of flashback episodes, especially when it's the entire episode (or almost) but this one was alright.

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On 3/18/2018 at 9:28 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Poor Jessica. Finding out that the mom who you thought was dead accidentally killed your boyfriend who may have been trying to pimp out your powers to some shady guys he owed money to has to be rough.

Even worse that it wasn't accidental, or at least didn't seem that way in the flashback--Alisa went after Stirling very purposefully after witnessing the exchange with the thugs when he agreed to get Jessica to be their muscle.  But my husband and I disagree about whether Alisa actually confessed killing Stirling to Jessica--I think she did and that the flashbacks were a way to illustrate what Alisa was telling Jessica, as well as to help us understand why Jessica could not forgive her mother now that they were reunited. But my husband thinks the flashbacks were just intended to show the TV audience what happened, and that Alisa held back the most damning information. 

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On 3/21/2018 at 9:34 PM, Ottis said:

That whole ep was unnecessary. The biological mom is a creation of the doc, already knew that. Jessica has bad taste in men, was adopted and became bitter about her powers years ago. Uh-huh. She and Patsy fought in the past. Yep. A rando died. OK. If we had skipped the entire episode, would we have missed anything important? 

It’s a good thing the doc keeps getting lucky with the needle to the back of the neck of the super powered survivor. 

I still don’t find the villain scary. She is more a victim of what was done to her than a purposeful bad guy. At least so far. 

Agreed. I kept checking the time in this episode wondering why it wasn't over yet.

About the only thing that was moving to me was Trish on the floor of the club's bathroom. That poor girl only knows how to use sexual advances to get attention from men and thinks that it's normal and okay. I had a friend in high school like that (and she was sexually abused when she was little) so I've always had a soft spot for girls/women who fall into that trap.

Overall with this season so far, I'm disappointed in the "mom is the villain" trope. I think Jessica's mom is just annoying, not scary. I wished they would have went in a different direction with the IGH/origin story for Jessica.

Edited to add: I'm not a fan of the whole Trish/drug addiction storyline either, but I get it that Trish always wanted to be a super hero, and the drug kind of turns her into one so it makes sense to me from a character perspective.

Edited by Catfi9ht · Reason: Added quick thought about Trish.
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I love the whole direction of this season. Didn't think I would find a trip to the past interesting, but they're doing a great job. 

I really want to know what Jessica was studying in college. In other words, who was she after the trauma of losing her family, but before a bunch more terrible stuff happened?

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I felt like Sterling really meant he was trying to keep from getting killed/assbeat.  He was one guy, alone, against 3 with no reason to believe help would be there in time.  But he was clearly also a bit of a user living on Jess' powers and trying to find another investor to fleece.

I can understand selling Jess out while under duress.  My problem is he then mentions he wants his cut and shakes on it with these guys.  A truly terrified person wouldn't have pushed for compensation after being threatened.

I agree that Ritter was pretty convincing as a younger Jessica.  Although even older Jessica could still pass for 25 in my opinion.

I thought the "It's Patsy" show was analogous to Blossom but after this ep I'm guessing young Trish is a riff on Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana.

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1 hour ago, BetterButter said:
 

I was just coming here to post that. The pop up video style comments are hilarious. Apparently Trish was in a movie called Snatch & Grab.

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Bahahahaha excellent.  

My husband was like whyyyyyy are you listening to that terrible song again?  lol

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On 3/28/2018 at 3:18 PM, maczero said:

I thought the "It's Patsy" show was analogous to Blossom but after this ep I'm guessing young Trish is a riff on Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana.

With Lindsey Lohan's downward spiral added in.

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On 3/11/2018 at 7:37 AM, Wayward Son said:

It took until Jessica mentioned Trish should have been in college with her for me to realise that scene was also a flashback.

Heh.  Hubby didn't "get" that it was a flashback at first either.  He wanted to know why we were in an alternate universe where Trish is a really bad pop singer all of a sudden.

 

On 3/12/2018 at 12:59 AM, methodwriter85 said:

[Krysten Ritter] really did seem like a young girl in her early 20's. 

Trish did not, but even if her character was chronologically 22 or so, she was really about 40.

Hubby wanted to know how I could tell right away it was a flashback (see my comment above).  I told him it's because Jessica looks considerably younger.  He asked, "Well then why doesn't Trish look younger too?"  Ouch.

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1 minute ago, Taryn74 said:

Heh.  Hubby didn't "get" that it was a flashback at first either.  He wanted to know why we were in an alternate uniy wanted to know how I could tell right away it was a flashback (see my comment above).  I told him it's because Jessica looks considerably younger.  He asked, "Well then why doesn't Trish look younger too?"  Ouch.

Drugs tend to age a person.

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Wow, that Cray Cray song was so early 00s it hurt. Love it. It really is amazing how Krysten Ritter makes herself look younger in her pre-Kilgrave days. She was still cynical and snarky, but she also wanted to do well in school and was jokey with her boyfriend and had more of a lightness to her. 

Kind of weird that her dead boyfriend has never been mentioned, but Jessica has had so much damn misery in her life, I guess you cant bring up everything. The guy seemed like something of a user and an ass, but I do like he liked/loved Jessica, even beyond her powers. 

Young Trish definitely had a Lindsey Lohan vibe. Young child star turned hard partying wanna be pop starlet with a controlling attention hogging mom using her kids fame for her own benefit. But when will we get a flashback to an Its Patsy episode?!?!

Mom is...not well. 

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On 3/29/2018 at 2:37 PM, Kel Varnsen said:

The pop up video style comments are hilarious.

I had to go back and watch it again to make sure I caught everything.

Did anyone else notice that the a-hole who slept with 15 year old Trish was the one who directed the video?

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On 3/25/2018 at 7:21 AM, Paloma said:

my husband and I disagree about whether Alisa actually confessed killing Stirling to Jessica--I think she did and that the flashbacks were a way to illustrate what Alisa was telling Jessica, as well as to help us understand why Jessica could not forgive her mother now that they were reunited. But my husband thinks the flashbacks were just intended to show the TV audience what happened, and that Alisa held back the most damning information. 

I'm with you.  I think FrankenMom DID confess to killing the boyfriend and that's what Jessica can't forgive.  I suspect FrankenMom still thinks the killing was justified -- her recollections include hearing him offer up Jessica's super-strength as an enforcer AND demanding a cut of the collections.  I presume that Jessica heard that part of the story and dismissed it, assuming that he said whatever he needed to say to get out of that alley alive.  Unfortunately he didn't count on being overheard by Jessica's cray-cray mother.

So . . . that last needle to the neck (Jessica's neck) took me by surprise.  Ugh.  I hate the idea of Jessica being back in the hands of unscrupulous people experimenting on her.

One question -- are we to assume that Jessica's super-strength did not manifest while she was a patient of doctor needle-in-the-neck?  Because he strikes me as the kind of guy who would not have let her go if he knew she had super-powers.  He strikes me as the kind of guy who would want to exploit her talents.

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Alisa has become my favorite character and this episode is my personal favorite so far.

I mean, Stirling may have been shady, but he did seem to genuinely care for Jessica.  I could see him maybe agreeing with the thugs and after, he and Jessica disappear.

While I loved the music video, I loved young Jessica, I didn't love seeing young Trish's addiction.

And the one thing I learned from this... we have Alisa to blame for Dorothy.  I did love their shared scene.

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Jessica's mom killing Stirling: what any loving mother would have done under the circumstances. 

Seriously, Stirling was awful. How Jessica could have been bamboozled by such a creep, even at age 20, is beyond me. 

On 4/14/2018 at 9:35 PM, WatchrTina said:

I'm with you.  I think FrankenMom DID confess to killing the boyfriend and that's what Jessica can't forgive.  I suspect FrankenMom still thinks the killing was justified -- her recollections include hearing him offer up Jessica's super-strength as an enforcer AND demanding a cut of the collections.  I presume that Jessica heard that part of the story and dismissed it, assuming that he said whatever he needed to say to get out of that alley alive.

 

On 5/4/2018 at 8:43 PM, CyberJawa1986 said:

I mean, Stirling may have been shady, but he did seem to genuinely care for Jessica.  

Everything I saw indicated that Stirling was, at bottom, an immature, sleazy, and egoistic creep who was using Jessica. Initially, it looked as though Stirling was a flawed but gallant prince charming-- he was poor and (like Jessica) somewhat rebellious, defiant, and lazy, yet initially he at least seemed to genuinely care for Jessica. However, greater and greater warning signs of his sleaziness and opportunism kept recurring throughout the episode; until it became clear that Stirling was an exploiter who basically used people because he felt entitled to money for his unrealistic dream of starting a night club, and that Jessica was yet another person he was using. He may have cared for her somewhat-- she was pretty and he seemed to like her-- but there is no way he wouldn't be willing to sacrifice her in a heartbeat for "his dreams." (A.K.A., getting enough money to open up a nightclub.)

Some of the gradual signs that Stirling was, in fact, an entitled creep who was only in it for himself:

1. He only began a relationship with Jessica after he witnesses her "talent"-- a.k.a., the super strength that allows her to rip open ATM machines, and potentially make a comfortable living for at least two people without having to work. He might like her for herself, but the fact remains that he might also be taking advantage of her abilities to gain the comfotable life that he is not willing to work for. 

2. When we next pick up with them, it seems that Stirling is indeed taking advantage of Jessica's strengh to make a living for himself without having to work. He is not working, but they are living in a very comfortable, nicely furnished apartment for two; both are wearing nice clothes. 

We later see that Stirling is not working or doing anything (save hustle money for his club), and that Jessica is supporting the two of them by stealing clothes, material goods and (presumably) robbing ATM machines. Before Stirling, Jessica was a college student who robbed and ATM machine once, in a fit of anger. Now, under Stirling's influence, she is practically a career criminal, stealing everything they need. Rather than trying to help or improve his girlfriend, Stirling corrupts and exploits her for his own material gain. 

3. Stirling screams and yells cruelly to someone on the phone, who only appears to be trying to help him. When he hangs up, it turns out that that person is his mother. Her crime? Not investing in Stirling's ridiculous pipe dream of a nightclub. His words to Jessica about the matter indicate that he feels entitled to his parents money, because he deserves it. 

4. Stirling plays on Jessica's emotions shamelessly to get an invitation to meet Trish. When he meets her, he instantly hits her up for funds for his nightclub (ignoring his girlfriends obvious discomfort, Jessica's troubled history with Trish, and the rules of basic human decency.) This single act reveals him to be manipulative, exploitative, and utterly entitled. 

5. In the next scene, it turns out that his pitch to Trish about "opening the nightclub soon" was only so much B.S. Apparently, some other very questionable characters have been waiting a year for this mysterious club to materialize. Stirling is coming off as a bit of a Bernie Madoff at this point, swindling people out of the savings with promises that more will materialize-- only to take off with the money. 

6. In his pivotal last scene, Stirling does more than just agree to allow the criminals to "use" Jessica without her permission. He displays a creepy, cavalier attitude ("She'll do anything I want, she loves me."), that betrays that, even if he does have some affection for Jessica, he is first and foremost using her to achieve his own desires. 

Jessica's mom may be a mentally unhinged murderer, but she was right about Stirling. He is pimping out her daughter, in a sense. 

In a way, Stirling reminded me of Trish's mom. Maybe capable of love, but at bottom, a total narrcicist who believes its all about him.

Other thoughts:
Trish's single was a hilarious send up of late 90's, early 2000's pop music. Hit the nail on the head, especially with all the ridiculous, Britney Spears esque dancing. 

The doc is interesting. What he did was all clearly inexcusable, though some ambiguity seems to be coming through with regards to his motives. 

This was my favorite episode this season. I guess I was somewhat pleased to be spared Malcolm's blooming sex addiction, Trish's pill drama, and the super slow moving Jeri Hogarth story. Don't get me wrong, I have great affection for some of these characters. But thus far this season, their individual storylines seem a bit... forced. (With the exception of Jerri's, whose storyline strikes me as believable, but incredibly slow moving.) 

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