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S07.E12: A Taste of the Heights

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On the day of Tiana's coronation, a confrontation with Dr. Facilier compels her to take a trip through the Bayou, where a surprising encounter changes her life and the hunt for an alligator takes a dark turn. In Hyperion Heights, Sabine reconnects with an old friend whose plans could jeopardize her culinary dreams. Meanwhile, Rogers and Weaver investigate a Blind Witch, leading them to a shocking discovery about The Coven.

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Okay, I'll start. While the episode was all over the place, it wasn't a bad episode overall. 

I had to roll my eyes when Tiana told Regina "From one queen to another, you know I have to do this." To which Regina ought to have replied, "From one queen to another, you should be the one terrorizing your subjects." 

So, Dr. Facilier and Regina had a history...off screen. I do like Dr. Facilier, but I smell another quick redemption coming up.

The Naveen-Tiana romance left me cold. Meh.

Oh, Henry... a Podcast? Really? Black Tapes, it is not.

Weaver and Rogers were on a whole another ineffectual cop show. Sigh...

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Blargh. 

* The writers suddenly remembered that Henry, too, is a writer.
* Henry's doing a podcast about his random adventures in HH? Isn't it kind of weird chronicling people you're involved with, especially one you're hoping to date? (And her more than the others?!)
* This episode made me officially dislike Tiana. She's got that "I'm a strong independent princess, therefore I must be abrasive" attitude not unlike Merida's. I thought Naveen was supposed to be a cocky asshole, but she's worse.
*  The fact Tiana is queen really undermines her character. In the movie, she's a little off-putting because life hasn't been kind to her and she's had to work for everything. Here, she's just a snobby princess who walks around the swamp in ballgowns demanding everything be done her way because reasons.
* I'm confused as to how Dr. Facilier could have known Regina prior to Tiana's coronation. It's unclear how much time passed between Henry and Jacinda meeting and the flashbacks of this episode. Did he know her as the Evil Queen? If so, how's the possible when they're from alternate realities?
* "Queen to queen"... yeah, Tiana. Regina really put others first as Queen. She went out and stopped bandits herself... oh wait, she didn't.
* "Natural causes"? They couldn't tell if the doctor had been poisoned?
* "H-Town" is a horrible name for a podcast.
* After we going to find out Remy used to be a rat? Please?
* In Facilier's HH introduction, he's holding black gloves. HMMM.
* So Facilier shows up as an investor immediately after Victoria's death? That's not weird at all.
* Henry is sleeping at the bar?!
* Lucy continues to be annoying and over-confident.
* "The game is afoot" means game as in animals to hunt, not games to play, writers.
* Why not just get Jacinda to to man the food truck? She works in a restaurant. She should have a certificate for food safety.
* Where the heck is Tilly/Alice?
* I really missed Drizella in this episode. Her mother just died and we don't even see her mourn?
* You can't trade food safety certificates, LOL. Why didn't Naveen just show up and serve the food himself?
* Why didn't the bakery alarm's go off? It said "SECURITY ALARM" outside. You can't just pick a lock and go in undetected like that.
* The blind baker had the Coven tattoo on her wrist. How did Rogers not see that? Why didn't Weaver mention it?
* Zelena just snarking about what people are wearing was great, from Facilier's "ridiculous hat" to the "Dark One in denim".
* I'm not digging the Regina/Facilier couple. When they kissed, I just wanted to go "ew". He's slimy and it just brought back memories of Golden Queen for some reason. He's obviously up to no good, yet Redeemed!Regina's sucking face with him. K.
* Why are all the villains in this show so shady? Dr. Facilier and the Blind Witch didn't act unsuspicious at all.

It seems like the show is juggling way too many characters and plots. We're back to this dumb centric format where everything important last week isn't this week, and everything important this week won't be next week. Major characters and storylines get temporarily sidelined because we've got a detour about Tiana and her drug-laced food truck. 

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Weaver and Rogers were on a whole another ineffectual cop show. Sigh...

Now we've got Regina, Zelena, Lucy, Gothel, Facilier, Anastasia, Drizella, and Weaver all awake. I don't know why they're even bothering to keep WHook in the dark. The witches aren't stupid. If WHook makes a fuss, it's not as if anyone is going to believe him. Weaver's already trying to convince him of the cult.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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12 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

This episode made me officially dislike Tiana. She's got that "I'm a strong independent princess, therefore I must be abrasive"

Yeah. This episode turned me against Tiana as well. Shame. She was one of the two newbies I found interesting. 

12 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

You can't trade food safety certificates, LOL.

What was that about?? Are we in the Real World or in an alternate universe real world where normal logic does not apply?

12 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

* Zelena just snarking about what people are wearing was great, from Facilier's "ridiculous hat" to the "Dark One in denim".

Really enjoying Zelena's witty one-liners.

12 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

If so, how's the possible when they're from alternate realities?

Are they from alternate realities? Facilier is presumably from the Disenchanted Forest. But since it's like any other Realm, presumably he could've Realm-hopped and met her. Wonder if they'll even bother filming an actual flashback. 

Edited by Rumsy4

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4 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I had to roll my eyes when Tiana told Regina "From one queen to another, you know I have to do this." To which Regina ought to have replied, "From one queen to another, you should be the one terrorizing your subjects." 

Oh, that had me rolling my eyes, too. Like Regina ever considered the good of her people when she was a queen.

5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

So, Dr. Facilier and Regina had a history...off screen.

And apparently when she was evil, before she changed. So, while she knew she had a soulmate out there and while she was keeping Graham as a sex slave, she was also involved with Facilier? And we've never seen a glimpse of this in spite of that period of her life having been explored in exhaustive detail.

I have to say, I kind of hated this one. For one thing, I felt like the characterization of Tiana/Sabine came out of nowhere. Have they talked about her being a control freak before? And now suddenly that's her defining trait. She turned into a bitch overnight. Then after all that talk about being the great hunter, being a hero (ARGGHHH) and all, when Naveen gets taken under water (thanks in part to her being so intent on bitching that she lost situational awareness), even though she's in the boat with a magic spear, she just stands there squealing.

Did anyone else think maybe they should try playing the trumpet to find the alligator?

What was Sabine's job before they started the food truck? If she went to culinary school, she could have had a decent job and probably could have got Jacinda a job at a restaurant where she might have earned a lot more money than at a fast food joint.

Speaking as a person who made shrimp Creole for dinner (without a recipe), Cajun food and Creole food aren't the same thing. I'm not even entirely sure the writers know what a beignet is or have ever eaten one. I don't think you'd have them just sitting around in bags. They're really only good hot, right out of the fryer.

Though I'm a little disappointed that the blind witch's gingerbread wasn't the direct competition to the beignets.

9 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

You can't trade food safety certificates, LOL. Why didn't Naveen just show up and serve the food himself?

I thought that's what he did. He shut down his truck and joined hers, since only one person working in the truck needed a certificate. If he was working with her, they were covered.

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I was talking on the phone so I missed a lot of details and if I cared more would re-watch it.

I agree Tiana went from likable why was she not the new lead to being Meridia-like.  The relationship was also too cliche with the overdone I hate you now I love you.  Plus, Tiana  has not been seen much since the early episodes, so any momentum of getting to know her or care about her had also been diluted.

Jaccinda and Henry's chemistry is not exactly heating up yet.  You did not really get the impression that their kiss would have been curse breaking.

I think Carlye would rather be anywhere but on that set.

It kind of sounded like Facilier knew Regina when she was all out evil - which would mean the EQ in original recipe EF, but I could have missed key dialogue.  It would be nice if Facilier stayed evil (he is not a bad actor and is a change from yet another villainess), but I cannot imagine they are going to give Regina another failed romance this close to the end.  He will be redeemed so she can have her happily ever after.

I understand building up the tension and pausing a bit to create will they or won't they kiss - but Regina's and Facilier's pause as they stood faces an inch apart and teased that they were going to kiss was almost comically long.  It did not help that they couple seems a little forced and rushed, so when people do not care if they are going to kiss just makes the pause while I stick my face near yours more awkward.

There are so many other plots going on - it is too bad they are trying to force in so many different romances and so much of the final episodes is going to be spent on giving each of these couples time to rush and have them fall in love - get separated - and then reunited again to close their story.

Not to be petty -- but a food truck does not really create a lot of drama.  And yes, I don't think that is how safety certificates work. Does that mean if she had failed her driving test, he could give her his driving license?

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2 minutes ago, CCTC said:

Jaccinda and Henry's chemistry is not exactly heating up yet.  You did not really get the impression that their kiss would have been curse breaking.

It's not romantic to call someone by their full name, "Henry Mills". It's like Regina calling Emma, "Ms. Swan" to be impersonal. 

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10 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I thought that's what he did. He shut down his truck and joined hers, since only one person working in the truck needed a certificate. If he was working with her, they were covered.

Ah - that makes sense.  Thanks.  

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I gripe a lot about the ages and timelines, but if Henry and Jacinda are in their 40s in 2017-18 (based on Henry being 13 or so when Robyn was born and her being 18 when Lucy was born, then the 8 years, plus however long after Lucy's birthday before the curse and however long since the curse), then the whole mix-tape, Gen X thing makes a lot more sense than it ever did with Henry in Storybrooke. Though I think even Gen Xers now would be making mix CDs, not tapes. Most people don't even have anything to play cassettes on (speaking as a GenXer -- I have multiple cassette players, but if I want to share music with a friend, I burn a playlist to CD).

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"H-Town" is a horrible name for a podcast.

I'm assuming that's a "clever" play on the popular podcast "S-Town."

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I kind of love that they were playing overdramatic "intense' music, when we see Lucy watching Henry/Jacinda through the door before it went to commercials.  Yeah, I think this show wants to find this thing cute, but it just makes her come off creepy and possessive.  Of course, she now finds out that True Love's Kiss will kill Henry (not sure who gave her that info.  Someone from her closet?), but it will be kind of hilarious suddenly seeing her find ways not to let them hook-up.

Maybe it's the fact that I think Adelaide Kane is easily one of the best things about this stupid season, but it really felt odd that there wasn't even a mention of Drizella, let alone an appearance after her mother just got taken out in front of her (not to mention, "sacrificing" herself for her.)

Tiana backstory time again.  On one hand, Mekia Cox is way better than a lot of the other newbies, so I at least wasn't cringing through all of it.  On the other hand, yeah, she seem strangely rude throughout a lot of this.  And really short-sighted, because while Naveen might have been a preening jackass, it seemed clear he knew his stuff, so it is much smarter to have him along, and not try to do everything yourself.  But, whatever.  They suddenly fall in love, only for Dr. Facilier to force him into his service.  The same thing seems to be happening in the present as well.  At least he's kind of a fun antagonist.  Too bad they've now romantically linked him to Regina.

So, the doctor from last week was actually part of the Coven, and this murderer is off trying to take them out.  Thankfully, Rogers and Weaver are on the case!  Yay?!

Zelena was kind of wasted this go around, but at least she's bringing the snark.

Love Tiana and Jacinda snarking on hipsters, since the idea of a mix cassette tape in this day and age, seems like something I imagine would be quite popular with that lot.

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Henry and Jacinda are the worst. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an “it” couple have so much anti chemistry. FF for the win. I’m still mad that the writers didn’t put him with Drizella because I saw a spark there. 

Are they making Tiana so unlikable because they found out most fans prefer her to Jacinda? Makes sense to screw up the character that we actually liked to prop the boring lead. 

Edited by twoods
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56 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Too bad they've now romantically linked him to Regina.

It seems interesting, because we don't know the extent of their relationship or how Redeemed!Regina is handling dating a villain, or how villainous Dr. Facilier really is. It's got this "grayness" about it that we don't see on this show very often. However, I don't foresee any plausible solution for these writers to give us anything satisfying. Either Facilier is getting a quickie redemption nobody asked for, or Pure!Hero!Regina is dating a psychopath, with (probably) murder going under the table.

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This episode felt like it lasted 2 hours and that wasn't a compliment.  I don't think I've thought "This show is so bad" so many times when watching an episode.  It didn't help that several times, it cut out for 30 seconds with a "This channel is currently unavailable" message.

I don't even know where to begin.  So maybe Henry's cringeworthy pretentious podcast voiceover.  Why would anyone listen to an interview with Lucy?  I know to the viewers, she's one of the main characters, but why would anyone in the neighborhood be interested?  "H-Town" sounds horrendous.  

And way to create a "character arc" for Tiana.  As predicted, they completely skipped over how/why she's even queen in the first place, aside from the "After heading the resistance, you're a proven leader".  LOL, what did the resistance do?  It's supposed to be a huge step forward at the end when Tiana declared, "I'm putting my trust in all of you, to help me [rule]."  Except the resistance was full of people she trusted and she was never presented as a control freak.  Or was "Greenbacks" some other Tiana from the fourteen hundredth parallel dimension?  

Meanwhile, in the present-day, wasn't Jacinda a partner in the food truck?  Tiana was fine with Jacinda making beignets in "Greenbacks" but now she's the type of person who can't let her sous chef stir soup?  It was almost funny how inconsistent it was.  Why didn't Tiana just give Jacinda a call?  I thought that would be the reason "date night" would be ruined.

So Weaver tells Rogers about the dead doctor.  Does Rogers not get department updates?  And why would Weaver only find out about the tattoo on the doctor at the end of the episode?  It has been "a hell of a week", according to Henry, and given Victoria was already buried, the autopsy would have been done days ago.  Rogers suddenly believes Eloise is evil with no evidence?  Their big lead is that the doctor bought a tea biscuit at a bakery and the blind lady seemed suspicious because she had good hearing and didn't want them entering her kitchen?   Granted, the actress who played the blind witch was good.  I wish she played more of a role.

The attempted romantic banter between Tiana and Naveen was just irritating, and the attempted romantic banter between Henry and Jacinda was cringeworthy.  Who would want a boyfriend who judges you based on your musical selections?  

I didn't like the "big" reveal of Regina and Facilier kissing.  I don't think Regina's redemption has been handled well but she has been redeemed, and I don't see her jumping into a romance with some villain who had just done an evil act.  I don't buy it, I don't see where it fits into her past, and I'm not intrigued at all.  Although the actor who played Facilier did a good job, I wish they kept him as a straight-up villain with no contrived relationship.  He annoyed me with the whole "steep price" thing, that he got to extract.  Basically Rumple-Lite.

Anyone who watched last week and were wondering how Drizella was reacting to her mother's death or what happened to Anastasia and Gothel would have been very bored, very quickly this week.  

Edited by Camera One
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17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Anyone who watched last week and were wondering how Drizella was reacting to her mother's death or what happened to Anastasia and Gothel would have been very bored, very quickly this week.  

*cough* me *cough*

I don't think the Tremaine family melodrama is all that and a big chips, but it had some kind of grounding and connected everything well. I liked the dynamics between the family members and it was interesting to see Gothel spin them all like a web. 7A was focused on them, even during the centric episodes. Lucy, Henry, and Jacinda should all be involved with it too, but nobody seemed to care other than at the gravestone this week. I know Drizella and Jacinda have a pretty bad relationship, but it was weird that Jacinda didn't even mention her. Isn't she supposed to be a nice person who cares about others? Oh right, this is Murderella we're talking about.

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This episode felt like it lasted 2 hours and that wasn't a compliment. 

It felt really long and really complicated. We had all these extra characters like Facilier, Naveen, that one cop, the blind baker, and Remy. Most of all that will be irrelevant next week because we're back to Show A, after taking a detour in Show B with a subplot in Show C.

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 I thought that would be the reason "date night" would be ruined.

I didn't really get the point of Henry bringing the Game of Life over for the date night since they never played it and it's not really a reference to anything, except maybe that Henry is trapped in another time.

Edited by KingOfHearts

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We thought that the alligator may have been metaphorical or something that wasn't what it seemed.  But it turned out to be just a giant alligator.  Which swallowed a necklace.  So super voodoo doctor who can bring people back from the half-dead couldn't kill an alligator?  

Meanwhile, in the rotating job of "Stop Henry and Jacinda from Being Together" went from Victoria, to Drizella, to Regina (who apparently couldn't care less about it anymore), and now, to Lucy.  

46 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I didn't really get the point of Henry bringing the Game of Life over for the date night since they never played it and it's not really a reference to anything, except maybe that Henry is trapped in another time.

It was delicious irony.  He wanted to play a game where you lived your life in 30 minutes and 30 minutes later, he could have died.

Edited by Camera One
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I fast forwarded through most of this. The show has become that boring for me. I like Zelena's snark and laughed at her "Well, pour some sugar on me." comment.

I missed how Regina knew the guy was "awake". And how exactly are people being "awoken"? Why doesn't Rumple try to wake up Hook, so he understands what the shit they're investigating is about?

How many kingdoms does the EF have? Every other person is a royal.

This whole season makes no sense to me. It's confusing and boring.

Edited by Writing Wrongs
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10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, the doctor from last week was actually part of the Coven, and this murderer is off trying to take them out.  Thankfully, Rogers and Weaver are on the case!  Yay?!

Snort. 

10 hours ago, twoods said:

Are they making Tiana so unlikable because they found out most fans prefer her to Jacinda? Makes sense to screw up the character that we actually liked to prop the boring lead. 

I don't think so. The writers seem to have decided around S5 that young women with abrasive personalities are very interesting (see: Merida, Dorothy, Murderella). 

9 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Either Facilier is getting a quickie redemption nobody asked for, or Pure!Hero!Regina is dating a psychopath, with (probably) murder going under the table.

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

I didn't like the "big" reveal of Regina and Facilier kissing.  I don't think Regina's redemption has been handled well but she has been redeemed, and I don't see her jumping into a romance with some villain who had just done an evil act.  I don't buy it, I don't see where it fits into her past, and I'm not intrigued at all.  

If Facilier is the one murdering the Coven witches, and this is not a red herring (or should I say, green gator), I'm afraid the writing may try to justify it by saying he was only killing other more villainous villains. 

I'm not sure why Roni's been given a romance this season at all (apart from Lana insisting on it). The Swan Queen faction of the Evil Regals will not be happy for obvious reasons. The Outlaw Queen fans are probably offended, especially since Regina and Facilier seem to have met during/after the time Regina had rejected Robin. Regina and Facilier don't have a believable chemistry, so nobody else is going to care either. 

Also, why is Roni's style to wear midriff-baring see-through tops? 

8 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Isn't she supposed to be a nice person who cares about others?

Well...she was one of the gang of "heros" who kept Drizella frozen as a statue for 10 years in their palace courtyard, open to the elements and pigeons.

Edited by Rumsy4
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11 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

So curse is cast and Regina and Zelena become Roni and Kelly. They open a bar. They fight and Kelly moves away. Meanwhile nobody is aging during all this?

Also, seems to be a bit different than the first curse where everyone was in a fugue state and basically living the same day over again and are trapped in a small cursed town.  Here people have dynamic relations - can completely leave the city and fall in love or can remodel or change their business when the other leaves.   Except for Victoria threatening the community garden (has that even been visited again - I figured it would have become an important central place and symbol of their resistance), and vaguely hinting of evicting people in the first few episodes, most people seem to have been able to live as they want.  Granted they had their memories and identities stolen, which is huge, but you think there would have been a little more misery added to the curse.  Most of Jacinda's early problems seemed to be caused as much by her own actions and impulses than Victoria's.    StoryBrooke you felt that they were trapped in this cursed place, here not so much.  They seemed trapped on a generic set from the Hallmark movies minus the Christmas decorations.

Also, I have completely loss track of what the political situation is in the alternate EF.  I know they were battling Tremaine who was maybe allied  with a kind and Tremaine had her own intrigues happening.  Whatever happened to the never seen king?  When they temporarily got the best of Druzilla in the statue years were the other people the resistance was fighting no longer an issue?   At one point they seemed to go from living in the woods in resistance forest attire to living in Tiana's castle in noble attire.  I did miss two or three episodes in the mid to late fall,so it perhaps was resolved at that time.

Regarding Henry and Jacinda.  Probably not a good sign when you spend more time looking at the couch they are sitting on trying to determine if that is the same fabric as the couch your parents had when you were growing up in the 70s/80s then what is going on in the scene. 

I don't think the actor playing Henry is a bad actor, but they really have given him no personality.  I know he is playing the more boring boyfriend figure in a show that largely focuses on the female (minus Hook and Gold), but even Prince Charming, the original supporting role boyfriend, got to play the dashing hero in EF, had his own problems with King George and wanting to help his mother, was shown and was a bit of a town leader post-curse [before he became more background].  It helped that he actually did have good chemistry with his true love and Dallas was able to pull off wearing fairy tale garb and look natural doing it (plus I don't think Dallas is a bad actor).  Henry is just kind of passive  and blah.  He does not even get to show the angst of being separated from someone that he finds himself strangely attracted to ala David Nolan and Mary Margret.    

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It occurred to me that Tiana giving the "from one queen to another" talk about rulers having to take responsibility for the greater good to Regina isn't just weird because Regina slaughtered and terrorized her people. Regina's also the queen who once abdicated because she was depressed about her boyfriend breaking up with her, and more recently, she abandoned her kingdom without any kind of succession plan, transition period, or even a farewell because her life was meaningless if she wasn't with her adult son. So, not exactly the model of royal responsibility, whether or not the word "Queen" is stenciled on her door. And now I'm picturing the raging civil war in Storybrooke as various factions compete to fill the power vacuum. Snow doesn't seem to want the job, but there are other princes, princesses, and kings in town, like Cinderella 1.0's in-laws, Philip, and Aurora. And then there's the "we're in America, so we should have elections" faction.

12 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, the doctor from last week was actually part of the Coven, and this murderer is off trying to take them out. 

I guess that might explain the bizarre "we need to test you all as organ donors, just in case, even though we don't know what's wrong" thing, if it was part of some scheme by the Coven. But it's an iffy plan if they were counting on Henry to volunteer. Why would they need to prove that Nick wasn't a parent and Jacinda was?

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

Meanwhile, in the present-day, wasn't Jacinda a partner in the food truck?  Tiana was fine with Jacinda making beignets in "Greenbacks" but now she's the type of person who can't let her sous chef stir soup?  It was almost funny how inconsistent it was. 

She practically forced Jacinda to help her. She was okay with Jacinda and Henry working on the food truck. Didn't they even surprise her with some of the details of how they put the food truck together? Jacinda is a part owner of the truck. And now Sabine's a control freak who has to cover every detail herself.

3 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

I missed how Regina knew the guy was "awake".

I don't think they explained it. She just "knew." And their little ploy of switching names as a test for whether he was awake made no sense. If he'd known them in the Disenchanted Forest but not in Hyperion Heights, he wouldn't have had any reason to know which one's curse identity was Roni and which one was Kelly, whether or not he had his real memories.

3 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

How many kingdoms does the EF have? Every other person is a royal.

That's a weird thing about the worldbuilding. Everyone's a royal, there doesn't seem to be any nobility, then there are a lot of skilled artisans and landowners, but no peasantry.

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

I don't think so. The writers seem to have decided around S5 that young women with abrasive personalities are very interesting (see: Merida, Dorothy, Murderella). 

That's a common issue with Hollywood writing, where their only way to make a woman "strong" is to make her abrasive, and clashing and bickering is what counts as "sexual tension."

1 hour ago, XrystalPond said:

So curse is cast and Regina and Zelena become Roni and Kelly. They open a bar. They fight and Kelly moves away. Meanwhile nobody is aging during all this? Or are we talking weeks not years?

That's what I've been wondering. How long have they been cursed? It might have been that they had fake memories of an entire life lived in this world even if they'd only been there a few weeks. But Kelly has a fiance who supposedly isn't from the fairytale world, so she has to have been there long enough to have a relationships. And now Roni mentions recognizing what tattoo removal looks like because she apparently had a tattoo of heavy metal song lyrics that she later removed. I'm pretty certain Regina would never have had that tattoo, so did the curse give Roni a removed tattoo and the memories of it, or have they been there long enough for her to get a tattoo and then regret it and have it removed?

1 hour ago, CCTC said:

Whatever happened to the never seen king?  When they temporarily got the best of Druzilla in the statue years were the other people the resistance was fighting no longer an issue?   At one point they seemed to go from living in the woods in resistance forest attire to living in Tiana's castle in noble attire.  I did miss two or three episodes in the mid to late fall,so it perhaps was resolved at that time.

You haven't missed anything. They went straight from Henry and Murderella's first kiss to them apparently already being married and Lucy having been born. That looked like it must have been right after the war because they were already at the castle when Drizella showed up with her "prophecy," but here in this episode, Lucy's already been born but Tiana hasn't yet been crowned.

1 hour ago, CCTC said:

He does not even get to show the angst of being separated from someone that he finds himself strangely attracted to ala David Nolan and Mary Margret.    

That's a big issue with them. The only obstacle for them is that if they have a TLK, the curse breaks and Henry dies (though I still don't know how that's supposed to work -- would getting their memories back kill him?). In the past, they went straight from first kiss to having a kid, with nothing to keep them apart. In the present, it's just been random circumstances interrupting potential dates. The only thing keeping them apart has been the fact that they don't seem all that interested in each other without someone pushing them together. Without a lot of interference from others, they probably wouldn't have bothered seeing each other again after Jacinda gave Henry's laptop back. Not exactly an earthshattering romance.

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3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

If Facilier is the one murdering the Coven witches, and this is not a red herring (or should I say, green gator), I'm afraid the writing may try to justify it by saying he was only killing other more villainous villains. I'm not sure why Roni's been given a romance this season at all (apart from Lana insisting on it). The Swan Queen faction of the Evil Regals will not be happy for obvious reasons. The Outlaw Queen fans are probably offended, especially since Regina and Facilier seem to have met during/after the time Regina had rejected Robin. Regina and Facilier don't have a believable chemistry, so nobody else is going to care either. 

 

If anything, this development damages Regina as a character.  She had presumably just learned how Facilier was willing to get someone to die to retrieve the necklace and had taken control of a man until a debt is paid.  Yet she can't help but kiss him?  And then, in the present-day, she basically lied about how she was so against Facilier and then secretly goes to his hotel room?  There's nothing here that could help Regina to grow as a character.  And as you said, there was actually zero chemistry.   I suppose Regina could be under a voodoo curse right now, and that would be so romantic to these Writers.

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Also, why is Roni's style to wear midriff-baring see-through tops? 

I've had a problem with this since she "woke".  Why would she still be dressing like Roni?  The Regina in her would recoil at that type of outfit.

3 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

Since when would a cop come see about a safety certificate? Who organized the event? I have worked on events that had food trucks. We asked to see all documents and certify all permits before we gave them permission to participate. If there was a problem with one, I'd call Public Health and the Environmental/Food Safety division, not a cop.

I figured it was ridiculous but it's good to have confirmation.  Would it be too much for the Writers to do a google search on proper procedure?  If Tiana was such a Type A perfectionist, wouldn't she make sure her papers were in order, or make accommodations before the event so she would be covered?

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So I get that Sabine was being a good friend, but shouldn't she have expected her friend and business partner to, I don't know, work at their first big event. Jacinda works/ed at the chicken place. Couldn't she have served while Sabine cooked?

I think they were trying to get at Sabine/Tiana not accepting help since that was their arc for the character in this episode.  So she wouldn't have been able to stand working with Jacinda and Lucy, who would no doubt make tons of mistakes that she totally didn't care about in "Greenbacks".  

2 hours ago, CCTC said:

Also, I have completely loss track of what the political situation is in the alternate EF.  I know they were battling Tremaine who was maybe allied  with a kind and Tremaine had her own intrigues happening.  Whatever happened to the never seen king?  When they temporarily got the best of Druzilla in the statue years were the other people the resistance was fighting no longer an issue?   At one point they seemed to go from living in the woods in resistance forest attire to living in Tiana's castle in noble attire.  I did miss two or three episodes in the mid to late fall,so it perhaps was resolved at that time.

Don't worry, you didn't miss anything.   None of us know this either.  We've never seen the king, nor why he was aligned with Tremaine, why he agreed to kill Marcus for her, how Tiana's father lost his Crown, why their family is royal, what the resistance was doing, or how Tiana started living in a castle with noble attire.  I guess there are still 10 more possible flashbacks to explain all this?

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4 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

It occurred to me that Tiana giving the "from one queen to another" talk about rulers having to take responsibility for the greater good to Regina isn't just weird because Regina slaughtered and terrorized her people.

Lines like that can really take you out of an episode.  I suppose Tiana might not know Regina's backstory but Regina herself would have known she wasn't that type of queen at all.  And it shows how this week's Writers see Regina.

Don't rulers have officials working in the kingdom who would report giant monster sightings?

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I guess that might explain the bizarre "we need to test you all as organ donors, just in case, even though we don't know what's wrong" thing, if it was part of some scheme by the Coven. But it's an iffy plan if they were counting on Henry to volunteer. Why would they need to prove that Nick wasn't a parent and Jacinda was?

As you said, if she was part of the Coven, why would she even need confirmation?  It's so dumb.

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She practically forced Jacinda to help her. She was okay with Jacinda and Henry working on the food truck. Didn't they even surprise her with some of the details of how they put the food truck together? Jacinda is a part owner of the truck. And now Sabine's a control freak who has to cover every detail herself.

This really shows how bad the planning and the writing is on this show.  I guess one could argue that this perfectionist loner control freak is more similar to the movie Tiana, but it's obvious that the Writers sat down to brainstorm this centric and came up with this artificial character defect because they needed some sort of arc and lesson of the week. 

They should have come up with Tiana/Sabine's character conflicts BEFORE Season 7 even started.  It's clear no one even re-read the script to "Greenbacks" before watching this episode.  If anything, Sabine was portrayed as a spontaneous, hopeful free spirit, compared to the uptight worry-wart Jacinda in that previous episode. 

If Sabine went to cooking school, why wouldn't she have a food safe certificate?  At the very least, the conflict should make logical sense.  On another note, I think I found the article the Writers googled for research but they only read #1.

There were a hundred different ways they could have had Sabine's food truck inoperable and have her "friend" Drew save the day.

And yeah, his beignets were so bad and that's why his stall was so popular.

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And now Roni mentions recognizing what tattoo removal looks like because she apparently had a tattoo of heavy metal song lyrics that she later removed.

I totally missed that line.  I knew she muttered something, but I couldn't bother with rewinding.

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I may have missed this in the episode, but apparently that necklace Facilier was after was the Evil Queen's. Not sure where or how that fits in.

I was browsing around on tumblr and twitter, and as I predicted earlier, the SQ and OQ fans are not happy. But even the neutral Regina fans in my dash who multiship Regina are not talking about this new romance. 

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1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

I may have missed this in the episode, but apparently that necklace Facilier was after was the Evil Queen's. Not sure where or how that fits in.

This means a rewatch.  :D

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10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

This means a rewatch.  :D

I'd rather eat Granny's lunch special. :-p

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21 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Speaking as a person who made shrimp Creole for dinner (without a recipe), Cajun food and Creole food aren't the same thing. I'm not even entirely sure the writers know what a beignet is or have ever eaten one. I don't think you'd have them just sitting around in bags. They're really only good hot, right out of the fryer.

I just freeze-framed on the menu and it was:

Cup of Gumbo - $8
Gumbo + Biscuit - $10
Beignet - $3
Beignet & Coffee - $5

How was Sabine going to fry beignets, bag them, brew coffee, ladle gumbo, and sell all by herself, if things got busy?  I thought Sabine and Jacinda were scraping by and could hardly pay rent.  Wouldn't they want to make as much money as they can from their new venture?

LOL at Sabine setting up those paper cups with beignets and gumbo inside, at least an hour before there were customers, considering the pretzel stand wasn't even set up yet.  And later, she takes Drew's entire basket of samples.  Wouldn't just one suffice?  

Sabine then waits until nightfall to walk 20 meters to Drew's food truck to confront him.  

And then, way way after she was shut down, THEN she starts putting away all those cups of cold beignets.  Presumably, people were eating them while she was doing whatever she was doing while the sun was setting, and when she was having those intense convo's with Drew.

I can't forget my favorite moment of the episode, when Sabine brings up that second garbage bag, and instead of just throwing it into the dumpster she was standing beside, she hands it to Drew.  She has learned the lesson of working together.  Good job!

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2 hours ago, Camera One said:

I suppose Tiana might not know Regina's backstory but Regina herself would have known she wasn't that type of queen at all.  And it shows how this week's Writers see Regina.

Even if Tiana doesn't know the torturing and terrorizing backstory, she should know (since it's pretty obvious) that Regina isn't ruling her kingdom or with her people. She's running around a foreign (to her) land with her son. So clearly she isn't putting her people first and doing what has to be done for her kingdom (mind you, if you know Regina's history, you might think that her leaving was doing the right thing because she isn't a rightful queen).

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

If anything, Sabine was portrayed as a spontaneous, hopeful free spirit, compared to the uptight worry-wart Jacinda in that previous episode. 

And she was okay with outsourcing her logo design to a child and roping all of them in to help.

56 minutes ago, Camera One said:

How was Sabine going to fry beignets, bag them, brew coffee, ladle gumbo, and sell all by herself, if things got busy? 

They got all flustered just making and selling the beignets previously. I was so grossed out by the samples sitting out. That's why I suspect the writers have never actually had beignets. They're not like donuts, where you can eat them warm or cold. They only work hot, so they must be made fresh. You'd need one person to handle just the beignets, with someone else to do everything else. If they're making the beignets in advance, they're not going to be good.

And now I'm desperately hungry for beignets, and it's been way too long since I've been to New Orleans.

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5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That's why I suspect the writers have never actually had beignets. They're not like donuts, where you can eat them warm or cold.

Did the stuff the actors were eating look like beignets?  Or were they pieces of donuts cut into beignet shape, LOL.

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5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Did the stuff the actors were eating look like beignets?  Or were they pieces of donuts cut into beignet shape, LOL.

It was hard to tell what they were eating. I guess they were samples, so they were cut up. It looked kind of like they were just pieces of pastry. The whole beignets were in bags. But the paper bags weren't getting those translucent oil spots on them, so I seriously doubt there were actual hot beignets in the bags. Also, I'd think you'd more likely serve them on a paper plate, dusted with powdered sugar. Mind you, I've only had them at cafes in New Orleans, so I don't know how a food truck would do them. I wouldn't know what a beignet is like when you're not on Jackson Square, with a guy playing the saxophone on the sidewalk nearby. Maybe people in Seattle don't know better, so they think what Sabine is doing is good.

These are the real thing:

1024px-Beignets_and_Caf%C3%A9_au_Lait_at

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I found this Beignet Food truck that is in Sun Valley, California.  As you said, the beignets are served hot.  They are in a white paper bag as well.  Gumbo is not on their menu, though.  

Their reviews are good, but it was funny reading some of their rare 1 star reviews and pretending Sabine was in charge of the truck that day.  Especially this one: "Waited for 45 minutes with a small line. Nowhere near worth the wait."

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It doesn't say much for the episode that the main topic of discussion is analyzing Creole food and how food trucks work.

I wonder why they don't wake Rogers. Couldn't Regina or Rumple whip up some more of that potion they used to wake Zelena? WHook and Rumple were getting along okay before the curse, so it doesn't seem like Rumple would have to worry about the "aha, we're in a world without magic, so here's my chance to finally kill the crocodile" factor. Surely a 200-something year-old pirate who knows about magic and who has experience dealing with Gothel and who has the memories and experiences of a Seattle police detective would be far more useful than a Seattle police detective who's clueless about what's really going on.

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15 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I wonder why they don't wake Rogers. Couldn't Regina or Rumple whip up some more of that potion they used to wake Zelena?

I'm curious when this season is over, if Weaver's actions will actually make sense because it definitely doesn't right now.  It feels like a forced way of using the original actors.  He had an alliance with Victoria before, but not last episode, so why didn't he go to Regina then?  They might have been able to stop the resurrection amulet from getting into Gothel's hands.  

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I'm about halfway through. This food truck fair is making me miss Pushing Daisies. The Comfort Food competition is probably my all-time favorite episode. That episode is intentionally hilarious, but Tiana's safety permit quest is much more unintentional humor.

Edit: the guy just gave her his safety permit? Wow! That is fantastic.

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Did Tiana organize the fair? Was Naveen's truck the only other one there? I have a very hard time buying that she didn't have a food safety permit. Setting up a food truck is very long process. She's supposed to be a workaholic who's on top of things. Forgetting the permit is more Jacinda's style.

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Edit: the guy just gave her his safety permit? Wow! That is fantastic.

Apparently, he worked at Tiana's truck so his permit would cover it, but the show sloppily interpreted this. It appeared Naveen just out-right gave her his permit, as if it was transferable. But later, we saw him working at her truck. This show doesn't explain things well, which creates the unnecessary confusion.

I don't get the point of killing off Naveen's parents. He's supposed to be a rich prince who got cut off from his family's wealth. So, Tiana is abrasive because she's a snobby princess, and Naveen is arrogant because he had a stereotypical parental tragedy. I see the writers really combed through the Wikipedia article for "The Princess and the Frog".

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13 minutes ago, TheRabbi said:

Edit: the guy just gave her his safety permit? Wow! That is fantastic.

It was a symbolic gesture. Like a knight laying his sword at the feet of his king. Or Queen in this instance. Naveen is now Tiana’s sworn knight, whether he knows it ot not. It was A&E’s masterly writing touch. Full of hidden meanings and symbolism. 

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Dr Facilier is not Baron Semedi and claiming that title would be disastrous in any world with magic (and most without).  Again, they glanced at the movie, and skimmed the Wikipedia article and screwed the pooch as usual.

On 3/9/2018 at 6:46 PM, Shanna Marie said:

Though I think even Gen Xers now would be making mix CDs, not tapes.

Possibly YouTube playlists.

23 hours ago, Camera One said:

And yeah, his beignets were so bad and that's why his stall was so popular.

 

I think "Naveen" (I don't remember his cursed name and I don't care enough to look) was selling entrees, not desserts.

==================================

I just realized that we're only about halfway through this mess of a season!

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1 minute ago, jhlipton said:

I think "Naveen" (I don't remember his cursed name and I don't care enough to look) was selling entrees, not desserts.

Tiana took a tray of samples from his truck to try, and I think they were supposed to be cut-up beignets (probably just leftovers from the crafts services table), and she commented they tasted like soggy hats.  

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1 minute ago, Camera One said:

Tiana took a tray of samples from his truck to try, and I think they were supposed to be cut-up beignets (probably just leftovers from the crafts services table), and she commented they tasted like soggy hats.  

So much for that theory!

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2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Did Tiana organize the fair? Was Naveen's truck the only other one there?

 

I don't think she organized the fair.  It's supposedly an abandoned skate park, so I think it was supposed to twist and turn and we only saw the dead end (how appropriate) with Tiana and Naveen's two trucks, and that pathetic pretzel stand.  There are supposed to be other trucks, since Jacinda made a joke that Tiana would be the "Queen" of the Food Trucks.  Another great line, like that "You're a real queen" or whatever someone said about Roni in 7A.

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I have a very hard time buying that she didn't have a food safety permit. Setting up a food truck is very long process. She's supposed to be a workaholic who's on top of things. Forgetting the permit is more Jacinda's style.

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Apparently, he worked at Tiana's truck so his permit would cover it, but the show sloppily interpreted this. It appeared Naveen just out-right gave her his permit, as if it was transferable. But later, we saw him working at her truck. This show doesn't explain things well, which creates the unnecessary confusion.

I think they're mixing up two different things.  It seems like Tiana herself didn't have a food safe certificate, and that's why she needed someone else working in it, which makes no sense if she works/worked as a cook.  But the food truck itself would also need a safety permit (actually called a food unit permit), which would have been necessary for her to begin operating in the first place.  

Tiana not having a safety permit or whatever they're going for, is completely contrary to the whole message about her sudden control freak personality.  

The whole thing was supposed to be a "clever" setup by Dr. Facilier for Drew/Naveen to get close to Sabine/Tiana, but couldn't he have just said he was back in town and helped out in Sabine/Tiana's food truck for free after she realizes her line is around the block and customers are leaving in exasperation? 

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2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Apparently, he worked at Tiana's truck so his permit would cover it, but the show sloppily interpreted this. It appeared Naveen just out-right gave her his permit, as if it was transferable. But later, we saw him working at her truck. This show doesn't explain things well, which creates the unnecessary confusion.

I thought this was one case where they actually set it up okay because the cop was very heavy-handed about saying that at least one person working in the truck had to have a permit, then Drew came over with his permit and was later working in the truck.

Though you've got to wonder how someone who'd been to "cooking school" (I've never heard it called anything but "culinary school") didn't already have a permit. Where was she working before she started this business? And how did Facilier know she didn't have the permit? Calling in the anonymous tip would have done no good if her permits were in order, unless maybe he was the one who held up the permit in the first place. And we're back to the usual unnecessarily complicated plot -- hold up the permit, which would have required her not to have one already, count on her trying to work without it, then call in the cops, then she figures it out and guilts Drew into helping her, so she trusts him.

I was pondering whether us complaining about Sabine/Tiana being bitchy was one of those gender double standard things, where we view assertiveness in women negatively, but then when you look at her actions, her "assertiveness" was her behaving nastily even when it went against her own best interests, so it's not just assertiveness. She supposedly wanted the giant alligator taken care of for the good of her people, but she was unnecessarily nasty to the experienced hunter with a magic spear, and her bickering with him even created the dangerous situation that almost got him killed, since she was a distraction. With Sabine, she was unnecessarily nasty to her partner in the business. She wouldn't have had a food truck without Jacinda, but wouldn't let her participate. On the other hand, her standing up to Drew when she figured out he had something to do with the cops being called was properly assertive.

2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I think they're mixing up two different things.  It seems like Tiana herself didn't have a food safe certificate, and that's why she needed someone else working in it, which makes no sense if she works/worked as a cook.  But the food truck itself would also need a safety permit (actually called a food unit permit), which would have been necessary for her to begin operating in the first place. 

I think in the scene with the cop that she had all the other permits. She had the permits on the truck. She just didn't have the safe food handling certification for anyone working in the truck. I don't know what that's like in all jurisdictions, but it may be the kind of course my mom had to take to work in the church kitchen for it to function as a Red Cross shelter. She had to take a one-day seminar on safe food handling, and she got a certificate. They had to have a certain number of people working in any one shift with that certificate. And, again, it's hard to see how she managed to get all the permits on the drug-infested truck turned into a mobile kitchen, but someone who'd gone to "cooking school" didn't have the personal permit.

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35 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I thought this was one case where they actually set it up okay because the cop was very heavy-handed about saying that at least one person working in the truck had to have a permit, then Drew came over with his permit and was later working in the truck.

The problem with the entire scenario is that it was easily rectified, starting with giving Jacinda a phone call.  It was a desperate situation and even if she didn't want to ruin date night, Jacinda was a co-owner and deserved to know.  Or Sabine could have used that handy app she suggested in a previous episode, where you could hire anyone on a dime.  A&E can't say Sabine has no other friends especially after going to "cooking school" (excellent point that no one calls it that except maybe kids under 12).

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I was pondering whether us complaining about Sabine/Tiana being bitchy was one of those gender double standard things, where we view assertiveness in women negatively, but then when you look at her actions, her "assertiveness" was her behaving nastily even when it went against her own best interests, so it's not just assertiveness.

As you said, the problem was not her being assertive.  It was being unnecessarily confrontational.  Moreso, it was the problem with the setup not providing a convincing reason why she was being overly confrontational.  If the viewer can't understand a character's behavior, it's hard to root for them or like them.  

I think you said this earlier, but I'm more disturbed by how Tiana suddenly became shrieky and completely lacking in composure after Naveen fell into the water.  It was totally opposite to her calm demeanor as the Resistance Leader.  

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I think in the scene with the cop that she had all the other permits. She had the permits on the truck. She just didn't have the safe food handling certification for anyone working in the truck. I don't know what that's like in all jurisdictions, but it may be the kind of course my mom had to take to work in the church kitchen for it to function as a Red Cross shelter. She had to take a one-day seminar on safe food handling, and she got a certificate. They had to have a certain number of people working in any one shift with that certificate. And, again, it's hard to see how she managed to get all the permits on the drug-infested truck turned into a mobile kitchen, but someone who'd gone to "cooking school" didn't have the personal permit.

It's impossible, because she presumably had a job until recently.  

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1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

Though you've got to wonder how someone who'd been to "cooking school" (I've never heard it called anything but "culinary school") didn't already have a permit.

I had a friend in high school who took one cooking class and had to have a food safety permit. You can add the lack of one to the list of "Everything Illegal About Tiana Using Mr. Cluck's to Sell Beignets".

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I think you said this earlier, but I'm more disturbed by how Tiana suddenly became shrieky and completely lacking in composure after Naveen fell into the water.  It was totally opposite to her calm demeanor as the Resistance Leader.  

Tiana has the same problem that most heroes have on this show - they don't really care about the people they're saving or leading. They just want to do the right thing either for their own pride or some arbitrary moral code that has no grounding in religion or any sort of belief system.

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I thought this was one case where they actually set it up okay because the cop was very heavy-handed about saying that at least one person working in the truck had to have a permit, then Drew came over with his permit and was later working in the truck.

It was the scene where Naveen gave her his permit that threw me off, because nothing is said about Naveen working in the truck, IIRC. He gives her the paperwork and says she can use his.

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And then later, we see in the distance that Naveen's truck is shut down, even though he actually had an extra employee earlier, so why didn't his truck stay open?  

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This episode actually reminded me of 6x02, "A Bitter Draught". Like Clone Queen, Dr. Facilier was hopping around everywhere, scheming and getting into everybody's business. 

I think this show fails to understand royalty and its power. Royals aren't supposed to be going out and doing everything themselves. They're supposed to inspire their subjects to. We don't seem do much leading. They constantly put themselves in danger with little concern for the bigger picture.

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50 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I think this show fails to understand royalty and its power. Royals aren't supposed to be going out and doing everything themselves. They're supposed to inspire their subjects to. We don't seem do much leading. They constantly put themselves in danger with little concern for the bigger picture.

 

I guess in this episode, this was supposed to demonstrate what a control freak Tiana was?  I'm surprised she didn't insist on bandaging the injured man herself while rowing a boat and tracking the alligator.  

Why didn't Henry go along for the alligator hunting adventure?

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10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

Why didn't Henry go along for the alligator hunting adventure?

He was too busy finding a gas station for his motorcycle.

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1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

You can add the lack of one to the list of "Everything Illegal About Tiana Using Mr. Cluck's to Sell Beignets".

Tiana not only used somebody else's property to sell her own food and make money (and incidentally hinder legitimate business), she didn't even have a permit to sell food. What a hero! 

These writers manage to ruin all characters, old and new, without prejudice. 

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This episode should win an award for the number it times it triggered my mind to think, "What a loser".  (about Henry)

3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Tiana not only used somebody else's property to sell her own food and make money (and incidentally hinder legitimate business), she didn't even have a permit to sell food. What a hero! 

This show has inspired me to go start up my own food truck.  People like eating cold French fries with cold gravy, right?  

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16 minutes ago, Camera One said:

People like eating cold French fries with cold gravy, right?  

Only if it's laced with illegal substances from where it's been prepared.

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