S15.E13: A Little Place Called Aspen

[FormerMod-a1]

Quote

Before the chefs can prepare the catch of the day, they must first actually catch it; the only thing standing between the chefs and the Grand Finale are 200 plates for the chefs and food connoisseurs attending the Food & Wine Classic.

[escatefromny]

Wow, karma is indeed a bitch.  Toast isn’t so easy is it Joestashio?!  Although it does seems like he gained a lot from the experience and third place is not too shabby.  

[Pickles]

Was not sad to see him go. Happy for Adrienne.

[Blonde Gator]

Wow!!!!!!!!!

I didn't see that one coming. 

Once again, Joe Flamm showed he's the SMART chef.  Choosing to go for the smoke, both times...and picking Carrie as his sous.  Of course the "mountain woman" (that! made me laugh) knew how to cook on the cowboy cauldron.  OF COURSE she did.  It was fantastic to see her picked first, you could see it was a total affirmation of who she was, and since she didn't make it into the top 3, it was fantastic to just see her get that extra bit of "you are awesome".

Speaking of awesome....I was never a big fan of Bruce's.  And true to form, the celeb judges all knew him, but I just wanted to hug and kiss him when he said "Ask Adrienne about the dish, I'll just stand here and be pretty".  He was a real rock for Adrienne, after he got it through his head SHE was the executive chef of that challenge.  He really kept her in the game when things started go to wrong for her, and it was so satisfying to see her change her dish in Whole Foods to  "make it my own cooking".  She's also a thinker!

Felt sorry for Sasto, but I don't believe he is any way the villain his edits have shown him to be.  He also had one of the better exits on this show, IMO.  Totally positive, although you could see his disappointment and sadness at leaving this far into the game.  But he was totally focused on how his participation had made him grow as a chef, and was so positive about what he'd learned.  "What's the worse that can happen?  You come in third".  Bravo, Mustache Joe!  Now lose the stache and let us just marvel at your sparkly, happy eyes!

Great penultimate episode.  The catching fish thing was really funny....I had no idea about eating trout not fully cooked.  My ex & I packed in years ago, from Creede, Colorado, way up above the treeline.  There was a gorgeous trout "pool" like that, where we caught our dinner....and the next morning he went fishing again, with one of our guides, while I went riding WAAAAY above the treeline with our other guide.   Although it was only a two day trip....it was definitely a bit of paradise and an experience of a lifetime.  This whole episode was so totally enjoyable....Bravo!  BRAVO.   The whole season was elevated by this episode, IMO. 

Can't wait for next week!

[Bastet]

I don't like trout, nor do I like fishing, so the QF wasn't my thing, and I thought the "cook on a cauldron, vegetarian, for 200 people" mandate was maybe a bit much for the EC to determine the final two, but then I came around on it.

I was nervous for Adrienne when she had one of those days where, no matter how good you are, things just don't go as you intend them to, and could tell it was between her and Mustache Joe for elimination -- she seemed to me the better performer than him this round, but I've thought that at least twice before yet he's been crowned the winner, thus the nerves.  I'm very happy for her.

And good for the show including the fact that when many chefs walk up to a male/female duo, not knowing either one, they think the man is the lead and the woman the assistant, because that happens all.the.damn.time in pretty much all professions and needs to be talked about.

I'm pleased with the final two; I'm almost positive Adrienne has never cooked, said, or done anything that makes me not want her to be crowned Top Chef in the grand scheme of things, and I'm fairly certain Joe hasn't, either.  I'm rooting for Adrienne, and pretty damn hard, but I won't be angry if Joe winds up putting out the best final dish.  The promo certainly feels like a "Joe thinks he's toast (no pun intended - and, seriously, shut the fuck up about fancy toast, Mustache Joe), but, when you watch, surprise, he winds up winning" edit, but I hope that's misdirection.

[MerBearHou]

I like Adrienne so, so much but because she had to go to Plan B on nearly every aspect, I thought her cauldron dish lacked cohesion, didn’t showcase the cauldron aspect very well, and to me, her dish didn’t look like it would taste good.  Flimsy charred pepper and mushy corn pudding in a lettuce wrap?  Ugh.  Joe Sasto’s dish got dinged and he was eliminated because his bread wasn’t toasted or buttered??   Joe Flamm’s dish was definitely the dish I’d order and eat over and over.  

Interesting how Padma mispronounced her “good friend” Daniel Boulud’s first name when she said it and then later Gail said it correctly.  He says it like Danielle.  

Love Carrie.  Great decision by Joe Flamm to choose her as his sous.  Joe Flamm is so witty and fun — would love to know him.

Joe Sasto grew on me week by week and I came to really like him.  His exit was gracious and grateful.  I wish him well.  

[rafibomb]

I was really surprised that Adrienne, whose expertise is in fish cookery, didn't know that you can't serve mountain trout raw. My understanding was that you shouldn't eat any freshwater fish raw.

[avecsans]

I actually hated both challenges. If I had to catch a trout, I would still be in the pond. It was too reminiscent of chopping ingredients out of the ice in the Texas season.  And it annoyed me that the chefs were doubly handicapped in the elimination challenge: no protein and then having to cook on the cowboy cauldron.  I am thrilled that Adrienne pulled it out. She didn’t allow Bruce to overwhelm her with all his ideas and I appreciated that she mentioned how people assumed that she was the sous chef because she’s a woman.  I hate that we still have to put up with this garbage.

 I was worried for Joe Flamm because I don’t think anyone has ever done well using baby vegetables.  I like this final two, but I am rooting for Adrienne all the way.

[Blonde Gator]

29 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I don't like trout, nor do I like fishing, so the QF wasn't my thing, and I thought the "cook on a cauldron, vegetarian, for 200 people" mandate was maybe a bit much for the EC to determine the final two, but then I came around on it.

I was nervous for Adrienne when she had one of those days where, no matter how good you are, things just don't go as you intend them to, and could tell it was between her and Mustache Joe for elimination -- she seemed to me the better performer than him this round, but I've thought that at least twice before yet he's been crowned the winner, thus the nerves.  I'm very happy for her.

And good for the show including the fact that when many chefs walk up to a male/female duo, not knowing either one, they think the man is the lead and the woman the assistant, because that happens all.the.damn.time in pretty much all professions and needs to be talked about.

I'm pleased with the final two; I'm almost positive Adrienne has never cooked, said, or done anything that makes me not want her to be crowned Top Chef in the grand scheme of things, and I'm fairly certain Joe hasn't, either.  I'm rooting for Adrienne, and pretty damn hard, but I won't be angry if Joe winds up putting out the best final dish.  The promo certainly feels like a "Joe thinks he's toast (no pun intended - and, seriously, shut the fuck up about fancy toast, Mustache Joe), but, when you watch, surprise, he winds up winning" edit, but I hope that's misdirection.

Gosh, I wish I could take you fishing and show you the sheer joy of catching and then cooking fresh fish yourself.  There's nothing better in the world, truly! 

Obviously, that was a stocked (and tiny) trout pond, I just wonder if the cheftestants had any instruction at all.  It never occurred to me until I read your comment that "fishing" is not a universal "thing".  It's not as easy at it looks.....although if the fish are in the mood, it's not hard! 

I wonder, is it even possible for a show like TC to do "neutral edits"?  I'm getting rather tired and bored with their constant misdirection with editing.  This show is one of my all time favorites, but even though I am totally pleased with this season's non-bitchy and collegial bunch of chefs....I think it needs some freshening up.  Keep the old classic challenges (mis en place race, Restaurant Wars), but we need some new ones, too.  And maybe even a different judging format.  Dunno...perhaps some online content for Judges' Table, etc?

Oh yeah, last thought that I left out of my prior post.  Didn't dig Padma's "Cher" look at all....I thought she looked more like Morticia Addams this week....all she needed was a black dress and Cousin It!

20 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

I was really surprised that Adrienne, whose expertise is in fish cookery, didn't know that you can't serve mountain trout raw. My understanding was that you shouldn't eat any freshwater fish raw.

With the state of our oceans, I'm not so sure saltwater fish is that safe, either.  However, having grown up and still living in Florida....I'm willing to chance it and eat super fresh raw seafood at every opportunity.  Since I generally dislike fresh water fish....far too boney  (except walleye trout)....I had NO idea about that.....many thanks for the heads up. 

[LeighLeigh]

We get Fatima next week! Oh, how I missed her.

[bobbobbob199]

36 minutes ago, avecsans said:

I actually hated both challenges. If I had to catch a trout, I would still be in the pond. It was too reminiscent of chopping ingredients out of the ice in the Texas season.  And it annoyed me that the chefs were doubly handicapped in the elimination challenge: no protein and then having to cook on the cowboy cauldron.  I am thrilled that Adrienne pulled it out. She didn’t allow Bruce to overwhelm her with all his ideas and I appreciated that she mentioned how people assumed that she was the sous chef because she’s a woman.  I hate that we still have to put up with this garbage.

 I was worried for Joe Flamm because I don’t think anyone has ever done well using baby vegetables.  I like this final two, but I am rooting for Adrienne all the way.

I'm pretty sure people thought she was the sous because they all knew Bruce as a famous chef and no one knew Adrienne...so it makes sense she was his sous...not because of gender...

[doLLish]

I think I’m the only one who has very mixed feelings about Adrienne’s journey that makes it very hard for me to root for her to be Top Chef.

She coasted and put out underwhelming dish after underwhelming dish until she got to the final 5 or so. She got to the final five by being just a little less worse than someone else almost every elimination challenge. I’m not a “what have you cooked for me lately” viewer but a journey viewer and sorry to say, as a whole it’s almost insulting if she were to be named Too Chef next week. She has the ability to make great food but only realized that after she coasted to the final five? It’s ridiculous.

My favorite was Chris but I like Joe Flamm and will be rooting for him to win it all next week. He’s had a great journey.

[avecsans]

4 minutes ago, bobbobbob199 said:

I'm pretty sure people thought she was the sous because they all knew Bruce as a famous chef and no one knew Adrienne...so it makes sense she was his sous...not because of gender...

I would like to agree with you but I can’t.

[bobbobbob199]

3 minutes ago, avecsans said:

I would like to agree with you but I can’t.

To each their own...but it seems pretty logical to me. I think it has to do more with Bruce being much more famous in the industry, and usually the more famous chef is not the sous. Bruce Kalman is a very well known chef, much older than Adrienne, why WOULD he be Adrienne's sous in a normal scenario? If I knew Bruce personally when I walked up to the station would I assume he was being a sous for a much less prominent chef at least a decade his junior? Of course the diners probably aren't familiar with what's going on in Top Chef.

[dgpolo]

9 minutes ago, bobbobbob199 said:

Of course the diners probably aren't familiar with what's going on in Top Chef.

But they did know that -was- a Top Chef challenge and therefore they shouldn't have assumed anything.

[bobbobbob199]

2 minutes ago, dgpolo said:

But they did know that -was- a Top Chef challenge and therefore they shouldn't have assumed anything.

Top Chef or not....more prominent chefs aren't usually sous chefs for less prominent ones. Everyone knew Bruce... If they're wrong, they're wrong, but you can't blame anyone for thinking what their instincts tell them. In any case, Bruce was very gracious about it.

[Bastet]

17 minutes ago, bobbobbob199 said:

If they're wrong, they're wrong, but you can't blame anyone for thinking what their instincts tell them.

Of course I can, if their instincts are at least partially rooted in sexism, and they most certainly were.  So, good for the producers/editors including it, including an explicit statement from Adrienne, and hopefully it causes at least a few people to open their eyes.

[biakbiak]

26 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Of course I can, if their instincts are at least partially rooted in sexism, and they most certainly were.  So, good for the producers/editors including it, including an explicit statement from Adrienne, and hopefully it causes at least a few people to open their eyes.

Also, I don't think that they didnt know she was the finalist it was just their instoct to go to Bruce first which is crappy. They have hammered home this season that Bruce knows people but its not like he is a household name and no one else has heard of the other contestants despite what editing would have you believe. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by biakbiak

[spiderpig]

3 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Great penultimate episode.  The catching fish thing was really funny....I had no idea about eating trout not fully cooked.  My ex & I packed in years ago, from Creede, Colorado, way up above the treeline.  There was a gorgeous trout "pool" like that, where we caught our dinner....and the next morning he went fishing again, with one of our guides, while I went riding WAAAAY above the treeline with our other guide.   Although it was only a two day trip....it was definitely a bit of paradise and an experience of a lifetime.  This whole episode was so totally enjoyable....Bravo!  BRAVO.   The whole season was elevated by this episode, IMO. 

Can't wait for next week!

Funny you mention this, Gator.  While watching I immediately thought of Jacques Cousteau saying (and how many decades has he been gone?) that after decades spent on oceans, he had not found a single place that wasn't polluted.

Nonetheless, I totally enjoyed this episode.  It made me want to head for the San Pablo Reservoir on a chilly morning with fishing pole and Mr. pig for company.

Mustache Joe made a classy exit and I was proud of him.  Now trim those stupid waxed curly ends.  You'd actually be kinda cute without them.

[bobbobbob199]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Of course I can, if their instincts are at least partially rooted in sexism, and they most certainly were.  So, good for the producers/editors including it, including an explicit statement from Adrienne, and hopefully it causes at least a few people to open their eyes.

If Adrienne believes people were being sexist, then maybe she has a better context of understanding then what we were shown. But I didn't see anything shown in the episode to demonstrate sexism beyond Bruce being by far the better known chef. If you go to a food festival with a well known chef you know and an unknown chef much younger working together, who would you assume is the sous chef? Nothing to do with gender.

[GaT]

3 hours ago, avecsans said:

I actually hated both challenges. If I had to catch a trout, I would still be in the pond. It was too reminiscent of chopping ingredients out of the ice in the Texas season.  And it annoyed me that the chefs were doubly handicapped in the elimination challenge: no protein and then having to cook on the cowboy cauldron.

 

This pretty much sums it up for me, I hate when they create challenges that put stupid problems in the chef's way. Just let them cook.

[Jextella]

5 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Wow!!!!!!!!!

I didn't see that one coming. 

Once again, Joe Flamm showed he's the SMART chef.  Choosing to go for the smoke, both times...and picking Carrie as his sous.  Of course the "mountain woman" (that! made me laugh) knew how to cook on the cowboy cauldron.  OF COURSE she did.  It was fantastic to see her picked first, you could see it was a total affirmation of who she was, and since she didn't make it into the top 3, it was fantastic to just see her get that extra bit of "you are awesome".

Speaking of awesome....I was never a big fan of Bruce's.  And true to form, the celeb judges all knew him, but I just wanted to hug and kiss him when he said "Ask Adrienne about the dish, I'll just stand here and be pretty".  He was a real rock for Adrienne, after he got it through his head SHE was the executive chef of that challenge.  He really kept her in the game when things started go to wrong for her, and it was so satisfying to see her change her dish in Whole Foods to  "make it my own cooking".  She's also a thinker!

Felt sorry for Sasto, but I don't believe he is any way the villain his edits have shown him to be.  He also had one of the better exits on this show, IMO.  Totally positive, although you could see his disappointment and sadness at leaving this far into the game.  But he was totally focused on how his participation had made him grow as a chef, and was so positive about what he'd learned.  "What's the worse that can happen?  You come in third".  Bravo, Mustache Joe!  Now lose the stache and let us just marvel at your sparkly, happy eyes!

Great penultimate episode.  The catching fish thing was really funny....I had no idea about eating trout not fully cooked.  My ex & I packed in years ago, from Creede, Colorado, way up above the treeline.  There was a gorgeous trout "pool" like that, where we caught our dinner....and the next morning he went fishing again, with one of our guides, while I went riding WAAAAY above the treeline with our other guide.   Although it was only a two day trip....it was definitely a bit of paradise and an experience of a lifetime.  This whole episode was so totally enjoyable....Bravo!  BRAVO.   The whole season was elevated by this episode, IMO. 

Can't wait for next week!

You said everything I was thinking!  I ended tonight's show thinking that Joe Flamm is a smart chef.

While her personality is a little flat for my tastes, I like Adrienne, and I appreciate her OCD in the kitchen a great deal.  Watching her think through a dish and then prepare it makes me think of algebraic equations.   Combining numbers/ingredients in a fairly elaborate way to get to the final result.

I really appreciate Joe S's cookery, but he does seem to be missing the finesse that Joe F has and the knack for flavor and culinary technical skill that Adrienne has.    Seems to me part of it is rolled up in him still grappling with the death of his mother.  He's only seemed super motivated a few times throughout the series.

As to Joe S and Carrie...Joe's said many complimentary things about Carrie and even proclaimed at one point that she was the one to beat.  The comment about the toast in the old West episode wasn't a good look, but I also think there is context.  Frustration about judges awarding a win for toast - not that Carrie made toast again, for example.  I don't think any of them would purposefully begrudge Carrie for making fancy toast given the ingredients she had.

Anyway, I don't see Joe as anything but a really nice guy who is still pulling himself up.  

I've really enjoyed this season.  The camaraderie has been wonderfully fun to watch.   And despite everyone fussing about the food, I've enjoyed that part of it too!  Chris, Carrie, Joe F, Joe S, and Adrienne have all put out food that I'd clamor for.   I get that much didn't rise to fine-dining standards, but that was ok by me.  The food has been diverse and interesting which is far more fun that fine-dining.

Edited March 2, 2018 by Jextella

[Rammchick]

6 hours ago, rafibomb said:

I was really surprised that Adrienne, whose expertise is in fish cookery, didn't know that you can't serve mountain trout raw. My understanding was that you shouldn't eat any freshwater fish raw.

Yep.  It's why sushi is only marine fish.  The potential parasites in raw freshwater fish could end up infesting our own "freshwater" bodies, whereas marine parasites need the salinity to make a living.

[chiaros]

6 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

I like Adrienne so, so much but because she had to go to Plan B on nearly every aspect, I thought her cauldron dish lacked cohesion, didn’t showcase the cauldron aspect very well, and to me, her dish didn’t look like it would taste good.  Flimsy charred pepper and mushy corn pudding in a lettuce wrap?  Ugh.  Joe Sasto’s dish got dinged and he was eliminated because his bread wasn’t toasted or buttered??   Joe Flamm’s dish was definitely the dish I’d order and eat over and over.  

This.

Adrienne's dish did not look appetizing and the description of her flavors and combination was a turn-off.  Joe S's dish looked far better to me and I wouldn't have cared if the toasted bread (yes, it was lightly toasted) was buttered or not (and in fact I would probably have preferred it unbuttered). I don't understand Gail's and that French person's fixation on needing something like butter on it. It already DID have "something" on it – the beets; and I can almost "taste" the beets and juices soaking into the toast...without being muddied by butter (ick).

 

6 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

Great decision by Joe Flamm to choose her as his sous.  Joe Flamm is so witty and fun — would love to know him.

Joe Sasto grew on me week by week and I came to really like him.  His exit was gracious and grateful.  I wish him well.  

Agreed.

 

5 hours ago, doLLish said:

I think I’m the only one who has very mixed feelings about Adrienne’s journey that makes it very hard for me to root for her to be Top Chef.

She coasted and put out underwhelming dish after underwhelming dish until she got to the final 5 or so. She got to the final five by being just a little less worse than someone else almost every elimination challenge. I’m not a “what have you cooked for me lately” viewer but a journey viewer and sorry to say, as a whole it’s almost insulting if she were to be named Too Chef next week. She has the ability to make great food but only realized that after she coasted to the final five? It’s ridiculous.

My favorite was Chris but I like Joe Flamm and will be rooting for him to win it all next week. He’s had a great journey.

You're not the only one; my sentiments go in this direction too.  I would have preferred a Joe vs Joe finale; but now I would like it better if Joe F won next week.

And, BTW – Joe Sasto won the most EC challenges (four – episodes 3, 7, 10, 11) than anyone else.

In contrast, Adrienne has had only a SINGLE "win" but SIX "lows"; while Joe Flamm has had two "wins" and a single "low".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Chef_(season_15)#Contestant_progress

 

2 hours ago, Jextella said:

I really appreciate Joe S's cookery, but he does seem to be missing the finesse that Joe F has...

I think Joe S has plenty of finesse when he manages to concentrate. His duck dish at 12,000 ft was an excellent example.

 

6 hours ago, avecsans said:

I actually hated both challenges. If I had to catch a trout, I would still be in the pond. It was too reminiscent of chopping ingredients out of the ice in the Texas season.  And it annoyed me that the chefs were doubly handicapped in the elimination challenge: no protein and then having to cook on the cowboy cauldron.  

Indeed.

Edited March 2, 2018 by chiaros

[chiaros]

Padma's boobs were barely more covered than last time.

[hkit]

4 hours ago, bobbobbob199 said:

If Adrienne believes people were being sexist, then maybe she has a better context of understanding then what we were shown. But I didn't see anything shown in the episode to demonstrate sexism beyond Bruce being by far the better known chef. If you go to a food festival with a well known chef you know and an unknown chef much younger working together, who would you assume is the sous chef? Nothing to do with gender.

The unwillingness to see it as sexism is why this problem exists. 

[The Solution]

I'm full-on Team Adrienne for the finale. Her food looks tasty to me and the technique always (at least lately) looks thoughtful. I like her demeanor as well.

I'm sorry to see Joe Sasto go. I've liked him for most of the season and really wanted to try those beets.

Joe Flamm has been a big nothing burger for me all season, in terms of both personality and food. I don't get it. I thought most good home cooks could have made those musciata zucchini. Not to mention my disappointment in having only 15 Carrie-free minutes this season. Blech. OF COURSE he picked her as his sous.

I don't think I'm Top Chef's target audience any longer and that makes me sad.

[RemoteControlFreak]

The bigger problem with the Waxman-Bruce-Adrienne interchange is not that he might possibly have known Bruce and assumed he was the competing chef.  It's that he greeted Bruce with a full-on bro, "Hey, how you doing? How's it hanging?" And even when he was directed that Adrienne was the chef, he didn't seem to get it and was just like, "Oh, hi."  It didn't seem to even register with him that Adrienne was the chef and Bruce was a loser.

I guarantee that if Adrienne wins, Waxman and others of his ilk will assume it's only because she was working with an older, more established male chef and won't give her the credit due.

The inability to understand this is, as @hkit said above, part of the problem.

[Wings]

 I didn't know trout had to be cooked through either.  I like smoked trout on toast or crackers but that is it, too many bones. 

 I could buy baby vegetables at a farmers market in FL so I tried many. They are expensive so it was not a regular thing. They were all delicious except the zucchini. It had a stronger taste is the only way I can describe it. 

I don't think Joe Sasto bad edit.  Or he did and I totally missed it. 

I think Flam will win because rising from LCK to be the victor is a good story. Ta da!   Damn it.  

Edited March 2, 2018 by Wings

[Wings]

Stephanie's style is elevated southern food which sounds delicious, I adore southern food.  Well not collard greens.

That may not play well for Colorado. Yes they say cook the best meal of your lives.  In the Hawaiian finale, the chefs cooked local food with their own spin, same thing in Mexico and so forth.  

I do know the way to the judges heart is fried food and a rich decadent starch.  Come Adrienne, you can do this. 

[Jextella]

4 hours ago, Rammchick said:

Yep.  It's why sushi is only marine fish.  The potential parasites in raw freshwater fish could end up infesting our own "freshwater" bodies, whereas marine parasites need the salinity to make a living.

In a million years, I wouldn't have known this.  Thank you for sharing/explaining!

[Totale]

10 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

.I thought she looked more like Morticia Addams this week....

You say that like it's a bad thing.  My 8 year old self begs to differ.  So does my 18, 28, 38, 48, and 58 year old self.  So far.

Adrienne put me off from the beginning with her constant recitation of her resume, and I agree with whoever above said she cooked to the middle and kept her head down all through the first half of the season.  Joe seems a little more interesting and they both seem like nice people, but I wonder if he's going to get a mental asterisk because if the reason forLCK is for Tom to pick his favorite and push them through to the end come hell or high water then what's the point?

Edited March 2, 2018 by Totale

[AriAu]

Quote

Speaking of awesome....I was never a big fan of Bruce's.  And true to form, the celeb judges all knew him, but I just wanted to hug and kiss him when he said "Ask Adrienne about the dish, I'll just stand here and be pretty".  He was a real rock for Adrienne, after he got it through his head SHE was the executive chef of that challenge.  He really kept her in the game when things started go to wrong for her, and it was so satisfying to see her change her dish in Whole Foods to  "make it my own cooking".  She's also a thinker!

I've been a Bruce fan all along since he turned out great food, but in the end, he was not the winner, but I loved that he was a big enough person to put the focus back on Adrienne, where it belonged. But....

Quote

The bigger problem with the Waxman-Bruce-Adrienne interchange is not that he might possibly have known Bruce and assumed he was the competing chef.  It's that he greeted Bruce with a full-on bro, "Hey, how you doing? How's it hanging?" And even when he was directed that Adrienne was the chef, he didn't seem to get it and was just like, "Oh, hi."  It didn't seem to even register with him that Adrienne was the chef and Bruce was a loser.

I'm not surprised that Uncle Johnny thought Bruce was "in" the game rather than a sous. Bruce has a big reputation and a successful restaurant that cooks Jonathon Waxman type food and I am sure their paths have crossed. I am a big Waxman fan (Barbuto is my first stop on every NYC trip) and he has mentored many, many chefs so I'm inclined to cut him a break since we obviously did not see the entire exchange between them. While I agree, it could have been a sexist assumption on his part I think it wasn't, but YMMV.

It was a VERY stocked pond and I'm surprised that someone didn't just use the net to scoop one up...especially Adrienne as the time was ticking away.
 

Quote

 

You're not the only one; my sentiments go in this direction too.  I would have preferred a Joe vs Joe finale; but now I would like it better if Joe F won next week.

And, BTW – Joe Sasto won the most EC challenges (four – episodes 3, 7, 10, 11) than anyone else.

In contrast, Adrienne has had only a SINGLE "win" but SIX "lows"; while Joe Flamm has had two "wins" and a single "low".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Chef_(season_15)#Contestant_progress

 

I agree that she got off to a very weak start, but she has really come on like Shirley and Melissa in seasons past. I think she has become a very good cheftestant but I think Joe Flamm is a better chef and cheftestant, but I have eaten his food and look forward to doing so again. And, yes, I always look at that Wikipedia chart for a visual on performaces...and Adrienne's is not pretty until the last few episodes.

Edited March 2, 2018 by AriAu

[milner]

7 hours ago, Jextella said:

Seems to me part of it is rolled up in him still grappling with the death of his mother

I don’t want to be insensitive but didn’t they say his mom died seven years ago?

[Jextella]

4 minutes ago, milner said:

I don’t want to be insensitive but didn’t they say his mom died seven years ago?

I hear ya.  Seems like plenty of time for some, but not for all.   We all handle this stuff differently.  My read is that Joe S and father are still struggling a bit.

Given the suddenness of it probably didn't help things.  

[Blonde Gator]

7 hours ago, Jextella said:

You said everything I was thinking!  I ended tonight's show thinking that Joe Flamm is a smart chef.

While her personality is a little flat for my tastes, I like Adrienne, and I appreciate her OCD in the kitchen a great deal.  Watching her think through a dish and then prepare it makes me think of algebraic equations.   Combining numbers/ingredients in a fairly elaborate way to get to the final result.

I really appreciate Joe S's cookery, but he does seem to be missing the finesse that Joe F has and the knack for flavor and culinary technical skill that Adrienne has.    Seems to me part of it is rolled up in him still grappling with the death of his mother.  He's only seemed super motivated a few times throughout the series.

As to Joe S and Carrie...Joe's said many complimentary things about Carrie and even proclaimed at one point that she was the one to beat.  The comment about the toast in the old West episode wasn't a good look, but I also think there is context.  Frustration about judges awarding a win for toast - not that Carrie made toast again, for example.  I don't think any of them would purposefully begrudge Carrie for making fancy toast given the ingredients she had.

Anyway, I don't see Joe as anything but a really nice guy who is still pulling himself up.  

I've really enjoyed this season.  The camaraderie has been wonderfully fun to watch.   And despite everyone fussing about the food, I've enjoyed that part of it too!  Chris, Carrie, Joe F, Joe S, and Adrienne have all put out food that I'd clamor for.   I get that much didn't rise to fine-dining standards, but that was ok by me.  The food has been diverse and interesting which is far more fun that fine-dining.

About Adrienne.....after seeing her w/her mom, I suspect there's nothing "flat" about Adrienne....she was raised in an old fashioned Southern household, and she has been taught to be reserved around people she doesn't know well....and I'd think that would include cameras as well!  Some would say "breast your cards".  She keeps her emotions to herself pretty much until she feels comfortable around people.  We saw glimpses here and there.  For example, I think she let her hair down a bit more when the three finalists made it to the suite in Aspen....what did Flamm say to her, "open the bubbly, Sparkling?" or something like that.  That's where she kind of opened up and you could see the "real" Adrienne without her game face on.

Totally agree about Joe S being a good guy, & the toast thing, well...obviously he's not as good at it as Carrie, perhaps in this episode he got the edit to make it look like he was making fun of himself???

Top Chef continually tells these chefs "cook your food"...and there's such a diversity of chefs that it only makes sense that some have homier styles.  But I think where the parameters of a challenge say "elevate your food" (as in the "High" challenge).....Chris wasn't able to think outside of his box of comfort food, so got eliminated.  To me, the thinkers (again, Flamm & Adrienne) had the hardest challenge...super home-style spaghetti & pasta, and the long-cooked pot of Gumbo.  They both truly elevated their dishes.  Adrienne won, because her dish was not only extremely elevated, it seemed like a new dish altogether, even after the now somewhat passe "deconstructed" dishes.  I like the mix of "fine dining", ethnic, and home-style chefs we typically get on a season....but they MUST be able to stray out of their lanes and diversify when the rules call for it. 

[candall]

I like the part where they edited Tom droning on while Adrienne tried to keep that smile on her face.

 

Agree that was not the most flattering style for Padma, either hair or dress. Please, there's a big difference between "low cut & revealing" versus mashing your breasts in from the sides to create unnaturally enhanced cleavage that smacks people in the face.

 

I watched the last two episodes back-to-back, so I was too disappointed about Carrie to decide among the Final Three.  What a shame--Carrie would have really shone with trout fishing, cowboy cauldrons and being inventive with a veggie-only hard left turn.  I'm not sure any of the others would have come close.

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

I hear ya.  Seems like plenty of time for some, but not for all.   We all handle this stuff differently.  My read is that Joe S and father are still struggling a bit.

Given the suddenness of it probably didn't help things.  

I missed how she died.  I think the fact that all the other chefs had their mothers (one grandma) there might have been a trigger. 

43 minutes ago, candall said:

I watched the last two episodes back-to-back, so I was too disappointed about Carrie to decide among the Final Three.  What a shame--Carrie would have really shone with trout fishing, cowboy cauldrons and being inventive with a veggie-only hard left turn.  I'm not sure any of the others would have come close.

I agree and I would not be surprised to learn the judges really wanted to see her in the finals.  Her mistake could not be ignored  

[Wings]

1 hour ago, Blonde Gator said:

About Adrienne.....after seeing her w/her mom, I suspect there's nothing "flat" about Adrienne....she was raised in an old fashioned Southern household, and she has been taught to be reserved around people she doesn't know well....and I'd think that would include cameras as well!  Some would say "breast your cards".  She keeps her emotions to herself pretty much until she feels comfortable around people.  We saw glimpses here and there.  For example, I think she let her hair down a bit more when the three finalists made it to the suite in Aspen....what did Flamm say to her, "open the bubbly, Sparkling?" or something like that.  That's where she kind of opened up and you could see the "real" Adrienne without her game face on.

Totally agree about Joe S being a good guy, & the toast thing, well...obviously he's not as good at it as Carrie, perhaps in this episode he got the edit to make it look like he was making fun of himself???

Top Chef continually tells these chefs "cook your food"...and there's such a diversity of chefs that it only makes sense that some have homier styles.  But I think where the parameters of a challenge say "elevate your food" (as in the "High" challenge).....Chris wasn't able to think outside of his box of comfort food, so got eliminated.  To me, the thinkers (again, Flamm & Adrienne) had the hardest challenge...super home-style spaghetti & pasta, and the long-cooked pot of Gumbo.  They both truly elevated their dishes.  Adrienne won, because her dish was not only extremely elevated, it seemed like a new dish altogether, even after the now somewhat passe "deconstructed" dishes.  I like the mix of "fine dining", ethnic, and home-style chefs we typically get on a season....but they MUST be able to stray out of their lanes and diversify when the rules call for it. 

I agree, good post.  I was shocked to see Carrie eliminated over Flamm's  pasta with tomato sauce (come on!) and tough frico. 

I smelled a rat at the time but since Carrie was so good and loved I came to believe her raviolo was the worst and everyone knew it so there was no sliding it through. 

[chiaros]

2 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Totally agree about Joe S being a good guy, & the toast thing, well...obviously he's not as good at it as Carrie, perhaps in this episode he got the edit to make it look like he was making fun of himself???

Joe Sasto WASN'T. MAKING. FANCY. TOAST.  In his own words, as the episode recorded it, he was using the slice of sourdough as "an anchor and an accent". He was concentrating on showcasing the beets. For myself, I would have preferred NOT to have any butter on that sourdough, and instead simply allow the bread slice to "support" the beets and the taste of the beets. Butter would have muddied it.

 

I do find it bizarre that both Gail and that Frenchie person was so FIXATED on the bread needing butter - or something. Well, for that matter the bread DID have something – the beets.

 

ETA: And I would also point out that, for example, crusty bread accompanying a plate of charcuterie, for example (but NOT the only example) does not need butter. The bread is perfectly fine eaten with just the charcuterie, and IMO butter would be a distraction. The charcuterie is the focus. The bread is a support. Similarly, in Joe Sasto's case, the beets were the focus. The bread was a supporting element, which also probably helped to absorb beet juices WITHOUT the butter, and if so helped to highlight the beets. The bread - toast, whatever - was not the focus.

Edited March 2, 2018 by chiaros

[albarino]

What a disappointment.  Adrienne?  I would count her as one of the most forgettable chefs ever.  Based on her editing this season, I guess Joe wins and I'm okay with that.

[Eulipian 5k]

8 hours ago, chiaros said:

I don't understand Gail's and that French person's fixation on needing something like butter on it.

The "French person"Daniel B.,, Tyler, & the ghost of Julia Child, are clutching their pearls at such sacrilege.

I think every bachelor breakfast I make from now on will bear the name "Fancy Toast!"

[chiaros]

4 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

The "French person"Daniel B.,, Tyler, & the ghost of Julia Child, are clutching their pearls at such sacrilege.

I think every bachelor breakfast I make from now on will bear the name "Fancy Toast!"

BTW, French cuisine IS NOT THE ONLY CUISINE on this world. Far from it. And it is not even the oldest or the most complex. Look to Asia for those.

Edited March 2, 2018 by chiaros

[Blonde Gator]

2 hours ago, candall said:

I like the part where they edited Tom droning on while Adrienne tried to keep that smile on her face.

 

Agree that was not the most flattering style for Padma, either hair or dress. Please, there's a big difference between "low cut & revealing" versus mashing your breasts in from the sides to create unnaturally enhanced cleavage that smacks people in the face.

 

I watched the last two episodes back-to-back, so I was too disappointed about Carrie to decide among the Final Three.  What a shame--Carrie would have really shone with trout fishing, cowboy cauldrons and being inventive with a veggie-only hard left turn.  I'm not sure any of the others would have come close.

Oh my, episode 357 of Padma's boobs.   (I am certainly NOT crabbing at you, please know that).

I have come to the conclusion that we need a separate forum topic next season...."Padma's Outfits", which of course, is code for "Padma's Boobs".   I am laughing so hard right now....but I still think the point remains, we could perhaps keep our comments more on topic in the Episode threads if we had a place to opine on the outfit choices her stylist makes....some are so awesome, and some are so awful. 

Now, back to our regularly scheduled Episode topic.....I meant to mention the Tom "droning" segment, as you said.  It was so amusing.  Sometimes this show just gets it right.

Those "cowboy kettles" looked REALLY hard to cook on.  There was really no way to mitigate the amount of heat, other than moving things around the grill top, and it looked like that oak was burning HOT HOT HOT".  I was kind of surprised there wasn't some sort of "step" kind of device to use to raise the pots to lower the heat, even on the edges that fire looked really almost too hot to work on.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, candall said:

I like the part where they edited Tom droning on while Adrienne tried to keep that smile on her face.

I did, too; that was probably my favorite part of the episode.

[Eulipian 5k]

From Der Google:

"What Would Julia Child Do? Jacques Pépin Says: Add More Butter" 50,000 French people...

I think TC, as much as any other show, has shown that there are other cuisines besides French. Western cuisine does lean heavily on French peasant cooking and I wouldn't look at "America Idol" or "The Voice" either expecting a Raga or anything but American/Western music.

[tvfanatic13]

Very satisfying season thus far. No assholes (well Claudette but...). Would have been happy to see any of the top 5 win. That sad, I am completely torn about the finale. Go...both?

[dleighg]

4 hours ago, AriAu said:

It was a VERY stocked pond and I'm surprised that someone didn't just use the net to scoop one up...especially Adrienne as the time was ticking away.
 

YES!

 

36 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

if we had a place to opine on the outfit choices her stylist makes....some are so awesome, and some are so awful. 

The gold eyeshadow?????

[Blonde Gator]

2 minutes ago, dleighg said:

YES!

 

The gold eyeshadow?????

Noticed that.  Thank you, but NO!

[Wings]

On 3/2/2018 at 11:44 AM, Blonde Gator said:

Those "cowboy kettles" looked REALLY hard to cook on.  There was really no way to mitigate the amount of heat, other than moving things around the grill top, and it looked like that oak was burning HOT HOT HOT".  I was kind of surprised there wasn't some sort of "step" kind of device to use to raise the pots to lower the heat, even on the edges that fire looked really almost too hot to work on.

Yes and that is exactly why no one used them!  Each did one little thing so they couldn't be dinged for not using it at all. 

It was a bad idea drummed up by someone who was clearly not a chef.  It turned out to be a set design element to remind us they were in Colorado.  

On 3/2/2018 at 11:26 AM, Eulipian 5k said:

The "French person"Daniel B.,, Tyler, & the ghost of Julia Child, are clutching their pearls at such sacrilege.

I think every bachelor breakfast I make from now on will bear the name "Fancy Toast!"

I wonder if that  would work if I put kale on my grandchildren's toast.  Nah  

The toast in Sasto's dish needed to be buttered for sure!  What is the matter with some of you?  Don't make me come over there.  Dry toast separating two beet layers, oh hell no.  

Edited March 4, 2018 by Wings