S03.E01: Oath

[topanga]

On 2/27/2018 at 8:33 PM, Neurochick said:

I thought this show is very interesting.  A woman like Serena would NOT be on a show like this, because most people who go on shows like these are fame whores.  But this is only the first episode and we don't really know who Serena is.  I've learned that I can't judge a show/job/person, anything in fifteen minutes.  I can't judge a show by the first episode.  On The Alienist thread, people are shouting that the show is good now, and I'm like, "guys, you have to fucking wait, that's life.  It doesn't get you in the first fifteen minutes."

I thought Serena's conversation with Rachel was interesting.  The Rules, what bullshit.  We live in a dishonest society.  Women are made to feel that if they do this, and this, and this, they'll snare Mr. Right, Forever.  But the reality is, it's mainly a crapshoot.  There are smart, kind, funny women who either never meet Mr. Right, or meet him and then he leaves you twenty years later for a younger version of yourself.   I'd tell Serena not to compare her insides with her friend's outsides.  That half of her brunch friends are probably miserable, and by the time they're forty-five half of them will be divorced.  

 

On 2/28/2018 at 2:50 PM, HunterHunted said:

It makes me sad that Madison is full on ruthless manipulator because I've always liked the idea of using Madison to see how Quinn became Quinn.

I'm surprised at all of the episode hate. I rather enjoyed the season premier, and I'm glad the show is back on. So far it isn't quite as good as Season 1, but many shows fail to recapture the greatness of their magical first seasons. I'm just happy it's not like Season 2. 

 

Shiri remains my favorite member of the cast, but Constance still delivers Quinn's insensitive one-liners with the snark and tasteless humor that I've come to love. And it seems like Rachel and Quinn's friendship and working relationship will become more prominent than in Season 2. Chet still manages to be a dick and hurt Quinn whenever he can. "She's just easier." 

And I don't like Madison. I'm sorry, but lying and sleeping around doesn't make you a empowered woman. Cunning and crafty, yes. And it's her right to be that way. But I don't plan on seeing her present the keynote speech at a feminist rally anytime soon. 

I agree that it would have been nice to see Rachel struggle with her decision to return to Everlasting, but I suppose UnReal didn't have enough time to explore that angle. I loved when she gave Chet the dose of 'Essential Honesty" that he requested. Cracked me up. 

Yeah, I'm not blown away by the suitorette (I hate that term, too) or the contestants. But I'm willing to give them a little time. 

[HunterHunted]

5 minutes ago, topanga said:

I'm surprised at all of the episode hate. I rather enjoyed the season premier, and I'm glad the show is back on. So far it isn't quite as good as Season 1, but many shows fail to recapture the greatness of their magical first seasons. I'm just happy it's not like Season 2.

I think everyone is being cautious about the premiere. Season 2 started well and unraveled quickly.

5 minutes ago, topanga said:

Shiri remains my favorite member of the cast, but Constance still delivers Quinn's insensitive one-liners with the snark and tasteless humor that I've come to love. And it seems like Rachel and Quinn's friendship and working relationship will become more prominent than in Season 2. Chet still manages to be a dick and hurt Quinn whenever he can. "She's just easier." 

And I don't like Madison. I'm sorry, but lying and sleeping around doesn't make you a empowered woman. Cunning and crafty, yes. And it's her right to be that way. But I don't plan on seeing her present the keynote speech at a feminist rally anytime soon.

I'm really here for Rachel, Quinn, and Rachel and Quinn's very messed up behavior. And it's not that I want to spend a ton of time with Madison, but it be a nice little arc to see Madison repeatedly compromise herself and become more and more manipulative. Rachel always goes through the same process, but she usually come up to a line she can't cross. It might be compelling to realize that Madison initially objects because she thinks she should, but actually has no problem crossing those lines. This is only a counterpoint to the main story.

5 minutes ago, topanga said:

Yeah, I'm not blown away by the suitorette (I hate that term, too) or the contestants. But I'm willing to give them a little time. 

I think they've made Serena too accomplished. Why would the female Elon Musk be on this show? And why would the female Elon Musk who is a 6 foot tall willow blonde be on this show?

I wish she had become successful for something that feels fundamentally female. It would actually help explain why she might actually be into being on Everlasting (It would imply that she's a lot more traditional at her core) and why she might be insecure about her success. It needs to be something that women would know immediately, but a man might think of it as a piffle--like Spanx, a diet food company, a women's blog network, Etsy, or a very female ecommerce/service site (maybe something like Bag Borrow or Steal or One King's Lane). I remember when Bethenny Frankel sold her Skinnygirl beverage company for $120 million. The business pages suddenly started paying attention. And that sale basically reignited a two languishing drink categories (low calorie and premixed). Bethenny is the exact kind of person I can see being on Everlasting.

[MostlyC]

I shall be flayed for this opinion, but I liked Jeremy in Season 1, and I'm glad he's back.  He did terrible things last season, but everyone on the show has done terrible things as well.  If nothing else, I am glad to see someone on the camera/tech represented.

[TiredMe]

I was not blown away by the episode. I will continue watching but I think the lead girl is dull. And I’m over the Jeremy and Rachel angst.

[KaveDweller]

On 3/3/2018 at 5:02 PM, HunterHunted said:

I think they've made Serena too accomplished. Why would the female Elon Musk be on this show? And why would the female Elon Musk who is a 6 foot tall willow blonde be on this show?

My problem with Serena is she is being presented as being on the show because she really thinks she'll find a husband. I can totally buy a super successful woman having trouble in love or being tired of her career being her main focus.

But I don't know anyone who thinks someone on the Bachelor/Bachelorette is going to find their actual spouse. And it didn't happen with the suitor on the last two seasons on Unreal. Why would this smart woman think that?

[dubbel zout]

Does she think she'll find a husband, or is she on the show because it presents her with more men in one place than she'd otherwise be able to meet? I thought the latter was more her issue: She's so busy she doesn't have a chance to date much in the first place.

[HunterHunted]

11 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

My problem with Serena is she is being presented as being on the show because she really thinks she'll find a husband. I can totally buy a super successful woman having trouble in love or being tired of her career being her main focus.

But I don't know anyone who thinks someone on the Bachelor/Bachelorette is going to find their actual spouse. And it didn't happen with the suitor on the last two seasons on Unreal. Why would this smart woman think that?

I think that's why I think if Serena's business reinforced traditional gender norms, it's possible she might just be deluded enough into thinking that Everlasting might help her find the guy of her dreams, especially if more traditional means like finding him on her own, blind dates, introductions by friends, online services, and matchmakers didn't work.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Does she think she'll find a husband, or is she on the show because it presents her with more men in one place than she'd otherwise be able to meet? I thought the latter was more her issue: She's so busy she doesn't have a chance to date much in the first place.

She referred to cutting the jockey because she knew he wouldn't be her husband.

But even if she just wants to meet a bunch of men, I still don't know why she thinks they'll be quality men who she has a shot at a real relationship with. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

She referred to cutting the jockey because she knew he wouldn't be her husband.

She probably used that to try to alleviate her shame for getting drunk and screwing him, and her fear that he would gossip about her to the other guys. I imagine if the genders were reversed most of the audience would probably be calling the guy an a-hole and a user. Not sure why she's getting a pass.

[queenanne]

On 2/27/2018 at 9:14 AM, BingeyKohan said:

I can already see they are up to their unfortunate old tricks of telling instead of showing and rushing developments. Rachel should have spent at least half if not all of the first episode in her farm setting. After Quinn made her pitch and left, there could have been at least one scene showing how bored Rachel was there, maybe manipulating other group members without realizing she was ‘producing’ them too. Instead she’s sucked back in before the title card! It makes it harder to accept she would bring her brutal honesty to work with her.

My problem with this is because, I can't imagine the RL showrunner and staff want to spend time doing up a microcosm of goatherders/commune life *well*; and plus, I can't imagine them or Lifetime spending the money on fleshing it out when it's not the story they want to tell.

On 3/4/2018 at 7:42 PM, KaveDweller said:

She referred to cutting the jockey because she knew he wouldn't be her husband.

But even if she just wants to meet a bunch of men, I still don't know why she thinks they'll be quality men who she has a shot at a real relationship with. 

I think they tried to line that up with her dialogue about marathon-shotgunning the first two seasons of Everlasting in six days (or was it 2 weeks)?  I.e., she's so busy with her high-powered business that she doesn't have time to factor in real life, and I also think this is a universe where the Bachelor/ette doesn't exist.  We have the benefit of hindsight of 25-plus seasons of that type of urk to inform us what "always" happens after these shows, which Serena lacks. 

I also think, though I doubt it will be done well on Everlasting of all places, since if it were done well the person in question would have themselves an IRL self-help multi-million-dollar empire; that Serena's monologue about mysteriously not being chosen while other women in her social milieu and level are chosen; is more about the evanescent feeling on the part of the other women after a certain age who also can't figure out why they aren't chosen, without its being signaled by some sort of brand upon the woman's forehead writ in invisible ink that only heterosexual men can read.

PS:  Did anyone else think that NewShrink was going to be revealed as a trojan horse planted on the show to keep an eye on Rachel, by Rachel's mother?

Edited March 6, 2018 by queenanne

[jhlipton]

On 3/3/2018 at 1:09 PM, topanga said:

Shiri remains my favorite member of the cast, but Constance still delivers Quinn's insensitive one-liners with the snark and tasteless humor that I've come to love. And it seems like Rachel and Quinn's friendship and working relationship will become more prominent than in Season 2. Chet still manages to be a dick and hurt Quinn whenever he can. "She's just easier." 

I loved when she gave Chet the dose of 'Essential Honesty" that he requested. Cracked me up.

I'm here for Shiri and Constance and Rachel and Quinn's toxic-but-necessary relationship.

Chet's "Essential Honesty" made any of the problems of the first episode worth-while.

On 3/3/2018 at 2:02 PM, HunterHunted said:

I'm really here for Rachel, Quinn, and Rachel and Quinn's very messed up behavior.

It needs to be something that women would know immediately, but a man might think of it as a piffle--like Spanx

Not all men thought Spanx was a piffle.. there's astory I love to tell about ‎Sara Blakely:
She was a contestant on Richard Branson's version of The Apprentice (The Rebel Billionaire, which my wife and I called The Bat-Shit Crazy Billionaire Show) and made it to the final episode.  Just before announcing the winner, Branson took her aside and told her that he believed in her, and that she would do great things with Spanx, possibly better than  if she "won".  He continued to mentor her, and I believe they still keep in touch.

The winner of the show went bankrupt (although he did have a store directly across from Spanx at New Jersy mall!) and Sara went on Shark Tank as an investor.

2 hours ago, queenanne said:

Did anyone else think that NewShrink was going to be revealed as a trojan horse planted on the show to keep an eye on Rachel, by Rachel's mother?

We already know he was planted to keep an eye on Rachel, but having her mother sneak him in is a good guess.

[KaveDweller]

On 3/5/2018 at 11:01 PM, queenanne said:

My problem with this is because, I can't imagine the RL showrunner and staff want to spend time doing up a microcosm of goatherders/commune life *well*; and plus, I can't imagine them or Lifetime spending the money on fleshing it out when it's not the story they want to tell.

I think they tried to line that up with her dialogue about marathon-shotgunning the first two seasons of Everlasting in six days (or was it 2 weeks)?  I.e., she's so busy with her high-powered business that she doesn't have time to factor in real life, and I also think this is a universe where the Bachelor/ette doesn't exist.  We have the benefit of hindsight of 25-plus seasons of that type of urk to inform us what "always" happens after these shows, which Serena lacks. 

I thought she said six seasons in two weeks?  I think the Bachelor doesn't exist in this universe, but the show Everlasting does and seems to be a popular show, so I think is supposed to be a parallel? There may not be 25 seasons, but it seems like there's enough for the public to know the true love thing is crap. So if she cared enough to watch that many seasons of the show, why didn't she research what actually happened to the suitors? 

But obviously they just wanted a female suitor, and wanted her to be smart, so we have to pretend it makes sense.

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

There may not be 25 seasons

There have been at least 11, IIRC, so the public should have an idea the whole thing is manufactured.

[Fable]

On 3/7/2018 at 10:05 AM, dubbel zout said:

There have been at least 11, IIRC, so the public should have an idea the whole thing is manufactured.

Hell, I don't know.  Judging by the internet, it seems a large percentage of people still seem to think The Bachelor and its iterations are real.  

[Raja]

On 3/5/2018 at 3:09 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

She probably used that to try to alleviate her shame for getting drunk and screwing him, and her fear that he would gossip about her to the other guys. I imagine if the genders were reversed most of the audience would probably be calling the guy an a-hole and a user. Not sure why she's getting a pass.

Quote

She referred to cutting the jockey because she knew he wouldn't be her husband.

The problem with the guilt theory was she said that he wasn't husband material and tried to get the production to dump him. Then by blackmail she allowed give him a kiss and 3 episodes for the show. That she got drunk and gave it up on the bathroom floor was afterwards and then she went back to her original position.

[Miles]

Well I hate the suitress already. First she complains about nobody chosing her, then she cuts a guy she clearly has sexual chemistry with for something as superficial as his height. How about get to know him before you cut him? There had to have been more bland guys around. No wonder nobody choses her if she is this shallow.

It's probably not a good sign that I find this fake reality how more interesting then the actual show...

 

Also that house being full of men better mean that Jay is getting some this season.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Miles

[aradia22]

WOW, I forgot so much of the garbage that happened in season 2. I almost wish they could have tossed it all out.

Chet's pitch for Serena was interesting but knowing how much the casting sucks on the real Bachelorette I was wondering why any female Elon Musk would hope to find love on this show. It's all guys who are vaguely affiliated with sports or who have fake sales related careers or who are just boring. What guy could they find who would be on her level? Of course it's a TV show so they can invent any character they want to be on Everlasting. It doesn't have to make sense for him to sign up for a show like this.

Dan! I never remember his name. I'm totally going to forget it before the end of the episode.

They really didn't think about having a female protagonist when they made up the names. Suitor vs. Bachelor is okay. Suitress vs. Bachelorette is insane. Is that even a word? 

LOL. I mean, I get that it's a TV show. But Everlasting is the worst working environment ever. There's no way any sane place should keep all these crazy people employed. They're all liabilities. 

OK, the Graham Spanx joke made me laugh. I wish they could have more fun and less blood oaths. Just like on the show, the first night car entrances are the best. The production room was so fun. I don't know why UnREAL wants to make things so relentlessly dark and intense. 

I do like that they brought up the phones thing. I don't know when she had time to google these guys though. But it has been an issue with unsavory things turning up about these guys that the bachelorette might have been aware of if she'd had internet access. 

Cute banter with the British guy but he doesn't do it for me. Still, it's nice to not have everything be about Symbolism and Issues. 

One thing that is bothering me is how much Serena is talking about meta stuff to the guys. They can't use that footage.

WTF is going on? Serena should not have been able to escape. Just because Rachel and Quinn aren't watching... a camera should be on her at all times... at least when they're filming (as opposed to sleeping or whatever). 

Firefighter Owen is so cute. That should have been on TV. Where are the camera guys? 

The kiss with Norman was underwhelming. She should have had to come up with a better excuse instead of just launching herself at him. 

Since when does night one become a nightclub? How does this sell romance? I don't like shows that violate the rules of their universe.

LOL, what? How is she already having sex with the jockey? Just because she had too many drinks? Wasn't she into the firefighter? Does she just make terrible decisions and this is our way into that? Because this doesn't seem like the character we were initially sold. Also, HOW DO THE CAMERA GUYS KEEP LOSING TRACK OF HER?

"Let's do this?" She's got mascara all over her face. I like seeing Rachel in producer mode but I feel like the writers keep forgetting about the show apparatus outside of her.

It's not a live show. If they really didn't want her to cut Norman, I don't get why they couldn't make her tape it again.

I miss Ioan Gruffuld. What happened there again besides the infertility thing? Maybe he can come back because it's more interesting than Quinn and Chet right now. Of course, Jeremy and Rachel take the cake on toxic relationships.