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S02.E11: Grief

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President Kirkman sees a therapist to deal with the loss of his wife; Hannah and Aaron travel to Cuba as part of a trade delegation; Kirkman struggles with a decision that will test his role as commander in chief during his time of grief.

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What kind of therapist is he seeing????

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5 hours ago, paigow said:

Watching on mute, it looks like he is crying about dropping his Samsung and needs therapy....

The phone drop seemed a wierd thing to focus on, but I'm not a director.

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They really need a Vice President!.

I do respect Tom for not entangling himself with the sentencing of Texting Driver Guy. If that’s really what happened. I was expecting the guy to tell Tom he was paid off or some such.  

Hannah is wearing sensible shoes now!

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On February 28, 2018 at 7:14 PM, marinw said:

Hannah is wearing sensible shoes now!

How did I miss this? Groundbreaking! Or less so (in terms of physics rather than fashion).
And an actually sensible reason for Hannah not to get killed for making fools of the kidnappers!
So I guess the evil business man was originally listed as "Double Crosser" in the script and that morphed into the name of "Cross" which unfortunately meant Hannah's sign of the cross had to refer to his name rather than his being a double crosser—or something like that?

The texting driver who killed the FLOTUS looked so sad and repentent. Yup. I predict Prezident Good Guy will magnanimously forgive him when he (POTUS) realizes he needs to forgive for his own mental health. Please tell him to send me my counseling fee via direct deposit.

ETA (Most important of all):  Was I imagining a non existent future plot point when I thought Emily seeing imperiled Aaron realized how hot and heroic he is and that was why she baled on Turks and Caicos with shlubby looking Seth? Now I think I know why they gave him a neck beard instead of a dapper goatee.

Edited by shapeshifter · Reason: Aaron, not Adam
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I realize that the wheels of justice probably move faster for the well connected, but 10 weeks for a person to be arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced seems very fast for what had to have been a very high profile, well publicized trial with tons of public interest.

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1 hour ago, RogerDodger said:

I realize that the wheels of justice probably move faster for the well connected, but 10 weeks for a person to be arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced seems very fast for what had to have been a very high profile, well publicized trial with tons of public interest.

Everything moves fast in Keifer's world. This is like 24 on steroids.

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I appreciate that the staff has been giving Kirkman space (which he hasn't been using constructively), and as someone with much experience in grief counseling and as a widower, I have sympathy for him, but someone needed to tell him that as POTUS he doesn't have the luxury to mope and sleepwalk indefinitely. 

Experienced field agent Hannah Wells manages to escape, subdue three soldiers and arm herself -- and then walks down the middle of the road to be quickly recaptured?? Oh, right, her role is to be captured over and over, week after week. Three times tonight alone!

Edited by Bobbin · Reason: Corrected name.
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Why did they rule out drones because of the trees?  Small drones could fly under the trees and be difficult to locate and shoot down.

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4 hours ago, oakville said:

I was excited to see the therapist was Danny Concannon from the West Wing.

Ageless veteran actor Timothy Bussfield ("thirtysomething"). Perfect for this part.

A small drone can't navigate the woodsy terrain, but a bigass Blackhawk helicopter can?

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I think this may have been the worst episode to date. I’m probably blocking out some duds from the past, but it was just.... blah.

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On ‎2‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 6:21 PM, paigow said:

 

What kind of therapist is he seeing????

The type that will have him back to normal by the end of the episode.

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Aaron is hot.

That's about it.

This show, especially considering its dwindling ratings and what has to be a big budget (due to the name actors alone), is toast. I am re-dropping it. I miss you guys and this forum, but I get no enjoyment from watching. This seventh soft reboot failed, like all the others have. Turns out, the first half-season was the best iteration of the show, and killing the McLeishes also killed the show itself. Oh well.

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14 hours ago, RogerDodger said:

I realize that the wheels of justice probably move faster for the well connected, but 10 weeks for a person to be arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced seems very fast for what had to have been a very high profile, well publicized trial with tons of public interest.

I was half watching last night - but maybe the texter is in still jail awaiting trial and not yet in prison?  But like I said.....half watching (which was about 25% more than its due)  

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This episode was 50/50 for me.  I hated the hostage plot line - it was stupid and poorly executed.  Yes, I know, they needed some sort of crisis so Kirkman could snap out of it and get back to being President.  But that's what they came up with?  ugh.  I liked everything that happened in the White House - the therapist (love Timothy Busfield!), the interaction between the staffers, the new aide to what's his name.

But am I the only one thinking (pretty certain about this, actually) that later down the road we'll learn that the texting driver did this on purpose, and was paid to take the fall for it in a seemingly innocent way?  How can there not be a conspiracy about the way FLOTUS was killed off? 

I don't like where this show has gone.  I liked the original premise and the mystery that went along with it.  But now it's just a weird mash up of West Wing and 24.  I don't think they're going to make anyone happy with that formula.

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If ever there was an opportunity for a tv show's course correction this was it.  And from where I sit they failed. Again. There was so much potential with the original premise of the show and I cannot understand why they couldn't capitalize on it, instead it's been all over the map. 

This week they had Keifer Sutherland and Timothy Busfield one on one, their conversation should have been riveting, but instead it was barely interesting. 

If they felt they needed to introduce a new character (the woman Lyor sent on a wild goose chase) why on earth did they take the time to do it on this episode?

And, since people are wondering why they don't seem to have a VP let me suggest Timothy Busfield so they can officially merge 24 and the West Wing into one show. 

I can't see Designated Survival being renewed for season 3.  Turns out Natasha McElnhone wasn't the problem after all. 

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14 hours ago, Bobbin said:

 

Experienced field agent Hannah Wells manages to escape, subdue three soldiers and arm herself -- and then walks down the middle of the road to be quickly recaptured?? Oh, right, her role is to be captured over and over, week after week. Three times tonight alone!

I'm surprised she didn't at least try to take those other guys out. There were only about 20 of them. 

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3 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I was half watching last night - but maybe the texter is in still jail awaiting trial and not yet in prison?  But like I said.....half watching (which was about 25% more than its due)  

Like you, I don't exactly watch with rapt attention, but I thought the therapist said something to Kirkman about the fact that he didn't attend the man's sentencing hearing.

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19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

ETA (Most important of all):  Was I imagining a non existent future plot point when I thought Emily seeing imperiled Adam realized how hot and heroic he is and that was why she baled on Turks and Caicos with shlubby looking Seth? Now I think I know why they gave him a neck beard instead of a dapper goatee.

I was wondering if they were going to do something like that with Emily/Aaron too.

5 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

I was half watching last night - but maybe the texter is in still jail awaiting trial and not yet in prison?  But like I said.....half watching (which was about 25% more than its due)  

They referred to his sentencing hearing, so it was definitely post trial.

If Kirkman wasn't the president, would he have been allowed to visit the guy who killed his wife like that?

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You would think that terrorists/guerrillas worldwide would instinctively know from years of television plots that, when the Designated Badass woman in the group says she "just has to go to the bathroom right now, it's a dead giveaway that she has an escape plot already figured out.  Also from years of television plots:  Someone is always in on it.  Start doing background as soon as the ransom demands come in, and you'll have that much more time to sell commercials.

Favorite line of the night (for reasons I can't quite figure out):  "I'm not a switch flipper".  I have to save that one for future reference. 

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14 hours ago, oakville said:

I was excited to see the therapist was Danny Concannon from the West Wing.

I still call him Poindexter in my head. 

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55 minutes ago, busterfla said:

And the therapist wore the same clothing every session? Is he for real or a figment of Kirkman's imagination?

I thought the same thing since I am a therapist and do not get paid anywhere near $800.00 an hour.

No, seriously, I think all those sessions were supposed to have taken place on the same day.

Did you notice that Timothy Busfield, said therapist, also directed this episode?

Edited by MaryHedwig
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16 hours ago, chaifan said:

This episode was 50/50 for me.  I hated the hostage plot line - it was stupid and poorly executed.  Yes, I know, they needed some sort of crisis so Kirkman could snap out of it and get back to being President.  But that's what they came up with?  ugh.  I liked everything that happened in the White House - the therapist (love Timothy Busfield!), the interaction between the staffers, the new aide to what's his name.

But am I the only one thinking (pretty certain about this, actually) that later down the road we'll learn that the texting driver did this on purpose, and was paid to take the fall for it in a seemingly innocent way?  How can there not be a conspiracy about the way FLOTUS was killed off? 

I don't like where this show has gone.  I liked the original premise and the mystery that went along with it.  But now it's just a weird mash up of West Wing and 24.  I don't think they're going to make anyone happy with that formula.

Why can't the show just hire all the West Wing writers & reboot the show as a new West Wing. ?

It looks like they copy parts of old West Wing Episodes but mix it up with action adventure Maggie Q

The show doesn't do politics very well. It would be fascinating to see how the other political parties are operating with Independents in Congress & the White House.

They had a caricature of a GOP Senator on the bus that Maggie wanted to shoot in the Cuba mission.

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Oh, hey, Designated Survivor is back.  I remember last year when this was new event show of the season.  My, how things have changed.

Anyway, great seeing Timothy Busefield as always and Kiefer Sutherland acted his heart out during the therapist scenes, but while I totally understand why Kirkman is off his game after what happened to Alex, this is really highlighting how an absence of a Vice President is a glaring issue.  He really needs one stat, in case situations like this (or worse) arise again.  This is just not good governing here, to say the least.

All the stuff in Cuba was lame and obvious, even if they let Maggie Q beat on a few fools.

Emily/Seth continues to be just a bunch of unnecessary drama.

Lyor's got a new assistant, I see.  She might have potential.

Right now, they're playing it straight with Alex's death being an accidental one due to other driver texting, but I'm still prepared for it to end up being part of the new massive conspiracy.

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On 3/1/2018 at 12:38 PM, Princess Lucky said:

Turns out, the first half-season was the best iteration of the show, and killing the McLeishes also killed the show itself. Oh well.

This should have been a limited-run 'special' miniseries (remember those?) and it would have been EXCELLENT. As it is now, limping along painfully for all involved.

I did see in previews that Michael J. Fox is showing up for four episodes, as is Virginia Madsen (yay!). That should keep me hooked until the end of this season at least.

Who was the '80s-haired female "senator" that was suddenly so pivotal to have been involved in about 50% of last night's scenes. She looks SO MUCH like the dearly departed Alex I thought it WAS her at first. My second thought -- oh no, do NOT make her Kiefer's new 'love interest' who will heal his broken heart (save Madsen for that -- she and Kiefer have chemistry & we at least KNOW that character).

What was up with when he told his daughter about her mom's death. Was she wearing a wig? That little girl looks REALLY different? Was it a different actress?

Stupid Hannah. She was told they never found whatshisname's body and she's not being extra-cautious going into her apartment, etc.?! D'oh. Super-ace FBI agent, that one!

 

19 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

ETA (Most important of all):  Was I imagining a non existent future plot point when I thought Emily seeing imperiled Adam realized how hot and heroic he is and that was why she baled on Turks and Caicos with shlubby looking Seth? Now I think I know why they gave him a neck beard instead of a dapper goatee.

Ditto. I thought exactly that! I never bought Seth & Emily. Let's pair Seth up with Lyor's new assistant instead (but why are they adding MORE new characters to this show)?

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On 2/28/2018 at 7:14 PM, marinw said:

They really need a Vice President!.

I do respect Tom for not entangling himself with the sentencing of Texting Driver Guy. If that’s really what happened. I was expecting the guy to tell Tom he was paid off or some such.  

Hannah is wearing sensible shoes now!

Thanks, you answered a question I had-- I missed them saying that the driver was texting & I couldn't understand why he was in jail if he accidentally ran a red light. I tragic mistake to be sure, but criminal ? If he was texting, yes that I can understand. It's hard to believe that people think they can do this and still be safe, but I know it happens.

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What did Lyor tormenting his new assistant have to do with anything? A blueprint that important would have been discovered long ago. Just bleach.

On 3/1/2018 at 1:38 PM, Princess Lucky said:

I miss you guys and this forum, but I get no enjoyment from watching.

This may be the only show I actively  hate-watch. I can't even articulate why, seeing how I am over Kiefer. I wish him well.

Edited by marinw
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On 2/28/2018 at 8:20 PM, shapeshifter said:

I guess the evil business man was originally listed as "Double Crosser" in the script and that morphed into the name of "Cross" which unfortunately meant Hannah's sign of the cross had to refer to his name rather than his being a double crosser—or something like that?

Good thing his name was easy to sign and not JingleheimerSchmidt or something like that!

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

All the stuff in Cuba was lame and obvious

A Cuba that has not and will not exist.  The current government of Cuba was form by rebels overthrowing a horribly corrupt system and had massive poplar support.  It still does have support, but there's a reason that so many risk their lives to come to the US.  (And Castro only turned to the Russians after America supported Batista.) That said, the Castros (Fidel and then Raúl) have fairly tight control of state media, so the public would never know about Castro's Ortega's part in the kidnapping.

Quote

From Wikipedia:
Amnesty International described him as "a progressive but deeply flawed leader". In their view, he should be "applauded" for his regime's "substantial improvements" to healthcare and education, but criticised for its "ruthless suppression of freedom of expression."

They should have gone with Columbia or Peru (FARC and Shining Path) or just made up a factious country.  The gross ignorance of history took me out of the episode to a major extent.

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5 hours ago, jhlipton said:
ON FEBRUARY 28, 2018 AT 10:20 PM, SHAPESHIFTER SAID:

So I guess the evil business man was originally listed as "Double Crosser" in the script and that morphed into the name of "Cross" which unfortunately meant Hannah's sign of the cross had to refer to his name rather than his being a double crosser

Good thing his name was easy to sign and not JingleheimerSchmidt or something like that!

Hah! Most convenient perp name of the 21st century!

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7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Good thing his name was easy to sign and not JingleheimerSchmidt or something like that!

A Cuba that has not and will not exist.  The current government of Cuba was form by rebels overthrowing a horribly corrupt system and had massive poplar support.  It still does have support, but there's a reason that so many risk their lives to come to the US.  (And Castro only turned to the Russians after America supported Batista.) That said, the Castros (Fidel and then Raúl) have fairly tight control of state media, so the public would never know about Castro's Ortega's part in the kidnapping.

They should have gone with Columbia or Peru (FARC and Shining Path) or just made up a factious country.  The gross ignorance of history took me out of the episode to a major extent.

I find it strange that they used the real name of a country, ( Cuba) but had a leader named Ortega. Daniel Ortega is the leader of Nicaragua.

Does the show employ anyone with a knowledge of foreign countries? It's confusing.

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17 hours ago, willco said:

Thanks, you answered a question I had-- I missed them saying that the driver was texting & I couldn't understand why he was in jail if he accidentally ran a red light. I tragic mistake to be sure, but criminal ? If he was texting, yes that I can understand. It's hard to believe that people think they can do this and still be safe, but I know it happens.

Accidentally running a red light is not an "accident". It's criminal negligence. In order to unintentionally run a red light, you have to be distracted - regardless of whether or not it is by texting - or impaired. Unless there is someone in that car with a gun to your head, there's really no excuse and it is (and should be) a criminal issue. If the victim wasn't the First Lady, it likely wouldn't result in extended (or any?) jail time, but it is still criminal.

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The set decorators have to do a better job of picking locations . The Cuban hostage takers camp had Canadian maple trees that were yellow. There were a few palm trees on the set.

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9 hours ago, oakville said:

I find it strange that they used the real name of a country, ( Cuba) but had a leader named Ortega. Daniel Ortega is the leader of Nicaragua.

I hadn't made the connection to Daniel Ortega. The hostages being held by a small group of Contras would actually have worked since the Sandanistas rightly hate the US and Daniel Ortega is democratically elected.

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Who wakes up a sleeping young child to tell her that her mother is dead?  This horrible, life-changing news couldn't wait until she woke up?  I hope Leo and Penny are seeing a therapist. 

It was nice to see that the WH staff, like the royal family, all had a black outfit on hand for sudden deaths.  

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On 3/2/2018 at 10:26 PM, marinw said:

What did Lyor tormenting his new assistant have to do with anything? A blueprint that important would have been discovered long ago. Just bleach.

This may be the only show I actively  hate-watch. I can't even articulate why, seeing how I am over Kiefer. I wish him well.

I still like most of the actors on the show. However, the writers have to come up with better plots. It is odd that the USA would be able to upload details of Ortega & the rebel's scam to the "Cuban New Agency" and bring down the government & the rebels in one day. If it was so easy to get rid of the communist regime in Cuba, it would have been done 50 years ago.  The writers come up with simplistic solutions that every episode ends with a happy solution that makes Kirkman look like a genius.

Lyor tormenting the new assistant reminded me of when President Bartlet was yelling at Charlie on the West Wing when he first showed up at the White House. He just wanted to be a messenger & ended up becoming Bartlet's personal assistant.

On 3/2/2018 at 3:22 PM, ChiMama said:

This should have been a limited-run 'special' miniseries (remember those?) and it would have been EXCELLENT. As it is now, limping along painfully for all involved.

I did see in previews that Michael J. Fox is showing up for four episodes, as is Virginia Madsen (yay!). That should keep me hooked until the end of this season at least.

Who was the '80s-haired female "senator" that was suddenly so pivotal to have been involved in about 50% of last night's scenes. She looks SO MUCH like the dearly departed Alex I thought it WAS her at first. My second thought -- oh no, do NOT make her Kiefer's new 'love interest' who will heal his broken heart (save Madsen for that -- she and Kiefer have chemistry & we at least KNOW that character).

What was up with when he told his daughter about her mom's death. Was she wearing a wig? That little girl looks REALLY different? Was it a different actress?

Stupid Hannah. She was told they never found whatshisname's body and she's not being extra-cautious going into her apartment, etc.?! D'oh. Super-ace FBI agent, that one!

 

Ditto. I thought exactly that! I never bought Seth & Emily. Let's pair Seth up with Lyor's new assistant instead (but why are they adding MORE new characters to this show)?

Has Seth gained a lot of weight since joining the show? He looks very bloated. I didn't like Seth dating Emily.  She should go back to Aaron.

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8 hours ago, oakville said:

It is odd that the USA would be able to upload details of Ortega & the rebel's scam to the "Cuban New Agency" and bring down the government & the rebels in one day. If it was so easy to get rid of the communist regime in Cuba, it would have been done 50 years ago.

The electorate are very efficient in Cubaguay!

8 hours ago, oakville said:

Lyor tormenting the new assistant reminded me of when President Bartlet was yelling at Charlie on the West Wing when he first showed up at the White House. He just wanted to be a messenger & ended up becoming Bartlet's personal assistant.

Bartlett was never an ass just to be an ass.  (When the woman said that her dad worked in construction and her mom was a maid, I was hoping she's follow with "I know what black mold looks like!"

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Lyor giving a new hire an impossible job to test their mettle is not without precedent.  from http://www.schenectadymuseum.org/edison/c_modules/module_identify/A51.htm

 

Quote

“Here is the full scoop on Marvin Pipkin’s development of the Inside Frosted Light Bulb during the roaring 1920s:

“In 1917, during the First World War, Mr. Pipkin, with his newly obtained degree in chemistry, went to work for the United States Army developing methods to combat gas warfare.  He worked as a United States government scientist in the facilities of General Electric’s  National Electric Lamp Company (NELA Park) in Cleveland, Ohio.  When the war ended, Marvin was hired by NELA Park as a chemical engineer.  As the story goes, in 1925 he was given the task of creating a strong, inside frosted light bulb.  This task had almost always been given to every new scientist or engineer who first came into NELA Park, by all accounts as a practical joke because no-one ever believed that an inside frosted bulb could ever be created.  And of course, none of them had ever succeeded.  But Marvin, despite the odds and to the astonishment of his fellow employees, hit upon the solution after several weeks of trial and error.

darned if she (and Marvin) didn't succeed in the impossible task.

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On 04/03/2018 at 12:00 PM, Calvada said:

Who wakes up a sleeping young child to tell her that her mother is dead?  This horrible, life-changing news couldn't wait until she woke up?  I hope Leo and Penny are seeing a therapist. 

Seriously, who does that! 

I also noticed Hannah's intelligent footwear, it was the first thing I checked when she escaped.

The whole idea of the government paying ransom is absurd.  The government never pays ransom, they can't, or every Tom, Dick, and Harry would use that approach to get money out of the government. 

I was also thinking that maybe they are planning to put Aaron and Hannah together. 

Hannah: As for Mr. Brit showing up in your apartment, well that's what you get when you shoot someone into the water and then don't retrieve the body and go drinking instead.

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On 3/4/2018 at 9:22 PM, jhlipton said:

The electorate are very efficient in Cubaguay!

Bartlett was never an ass just to be an ass.  (When the woman said that her dad worked in construction and her mom was a maid, I was hoping she's follow with "I know what black mold looks like!"

IIRC, Bartlett had lost his glasses & was preparing for a TV address to the nation.  He thought Charlie had misplaced them, which was false. Charlie wasn't even employed in the White House.

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48 minutes ago, oakville said:

IIRC, Bartlett had lost his glasses & was preparing for a TV address to the nation.  He thought Charlie had misplaced them, which was false. Charlie wasn't even employed in the White House.

That's not being an ass just to be an ass, though.  Bartlett honestly thought that Charlie misplaced the glasses, he didn't hide his glasses then yell at Charlie for misplacing them.

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On 3/4/2018 at 12:00 PM, Calvada said:

It was nice to see that the WH staff, like the royal family, all had a black outfit on hand for sudden deaths.

And of course, all funerals have to occur on dreary, rainy days. I the history of the world no single person has ever been buried on a nice, sunny day.

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I was half watching last night.  My excitement for this show has dwindled, thus why I'm late to the party.

At the end when they kept referring to all the Cuban guys... "When A talked to B to frame C for the kidnapping and then B would say to A...."  So confusing.  But probably my fault for not paying attention.

I always assumed that FLOTUS was killed on purpose, not due to some texting while driving kid.  We shall see.

So Hannah pries up a loose board with some metal from a bucket.  She takes out two guys holding scary looking guns.  But then she isn't aware enough to maintain cover and make sure the coast is clear before running onto an open road?  Seems not very spy-worthy.

Just not seeing Seth and Emily AT ALL.  She is way out of his league.  Wish Aaron and Emily were still a thing.

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