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S01.E04: These Bloody Thoughts

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Kreizler and Sara discuss the capacity to kill. Moore goes on a date. Byrnes and Captain Connor keep an eye on a potential suspect. Roosevelt finds himself under public scrutiny.

 

 

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This episode was all about people feeling massively uncomfortable, audience included.

I’ve never seen Kreiszler squirm like he did with that dominatrix.  My guess is that she never really “needed” Kreiszler’s psychoanalysis, but she sure liked making him uncomfortable.

Kreiszler was all about creeping Sarah out in the park, although at least the aim in that was to make Sarah understand his point from the last episode about putting herself in the killer’s shoes.  And in the end, he did it.

Connor is icky.  I keep thinking he is going to attack Sarah at some point.  He practically licks his lips whenever she’s nearby. 

Well, at least the Isaacsons were able to figure out how the killer is able to scale such great heights.  He's got to have a pretty impressive collection of knives and such both for climbing and plucking out his victims' organs and such.

Ted Levine was great casting for this, not only because he plays a slimy old Byrnes very well but his role in Silence of the Lambs makes his presence here seem so fitting.

Was the killer greasing up his hands so they wouldn’t be stained with blood?  Are the killer, the man with the silver smile, and Willem all the same, or are they different people?

The letter the killer sent to all of the principals was very reminiscent of Albert Fish, down to the cannibalism of children and not wanting to be associated with having sex with said children (as Fish spoke of Grace Budd).

It appears as though the ratings are staying somewhat steady with the show.  I'm glad - I think it was a smart turn for TNT.

Edited by eejm
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Wow, that was so good! The silver smile was even creepier than I thought it'd be. I guess him having syphilis could explain why he's so crazy, but obviously something also happened to him as a child to make him act out the way he is. No idea why he wants to eat children. It's really twisted.

I loved all the characterization we got this episode, especially with Laszlo and John. Their scenes together were great. So much power play going on. I'm glad John got his sketches back, and I liked him taking Mary out. They both seemed very happy and it was a nice distraction.

When John went back to the brothel, I was screaming at my TV. 'No John, haven't you learned your lesson?!' The scene on the roof with him and Joseph was sweet.

 

1 hour ago, eejm said:

Was the killer greasing up his hands so they wouldn’t be stained with blood?  Are the killer, the man with the silver smile, and Willem all the same, or are they different people?

I thought maybe his arms were covered in sores from the syphilis, so he was putting ointment on them, and then covering them up. I don't think we know yet if they're all one in the same. I'm going to guess they are. I definitely think the killer is the man with the silver smile.

Edited by pezgirl7
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This show is super good at ending things on a super creepy note. That note, and everyone realizing that the killer was not only knows who they all are, but was probably watching them, only for it to cut to the scary as hell smile guy leering at those kids was the stuff of nightmares. I also loved how when everyone realized the killer was probably watching them, their expressions were all basically "Dont freak out, dont freak out...totally freaking out but trying to play it cool..." 

John and Mary going to the old timie movie was really cute, and it was really cool seeing how excited and even scared people were to see a video of some water moving to music. Movies are something we take for granted now, so its really interesting to be reminded that, not so very long ago, this was cutting edge, shocking technology. I also found the John and Kreiszler scenes to be really fascinating. Theres a lot going on there between them, and you do get the long connection they have, even when their relationship clearly has a lot of ups and downs. 

Some good detective work from John and the Isaacsons this week, and the killer having Syphilis, plus some messed up childhood trauma (possibly connected)  would certainly explain several things. 

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For someone who hasn't even said a word yet in four episodes, Q'orianka Kilcher really is shining as Mary.  She is just conveying so much with her facial expressions and physical acting alone.  John and her going out to see "Edison's next great invention" was a nice, fun moment, amongst all the dark and drearier stuff.  Even if it did lead to Laszio upping up his dickish behavior.  Jealously is not a good look on you, my friend.

Poor Sara.  Even a simple assignment with bringing a book to Laszio, ends with her having to sit on a park bench and have Laszio be all "You see that lady, over there.  She totally drowned her kids in the bathtub!  Everyone is capable of murder!"  You are a ray of sunshine, Mr. Alienist!

So, it seems like the prime suspect is Sean Young's son, who has silver teeth due to syphilis, and Ted Levine knows about it and is protecting them for some reason.  Of course, since this only the fourth episode, I'm sure there are plenty of other twists in store.

As much as I love David Wilmont as Artherton on Ripper Street, Connor is quickly getting on top of my list of characters I so want to see suffer an epic downfall.

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And the man with the silver smile is.... Josef Altin, of Harlots! It's funny, because every time Altin came onscreen in Harlots, I kept thinking, "That dude is so creepy looking, he should play a serial killer." I guess somebody in the casting department shared my sentiments. 

Another strong episode. In my opinion, episodes 3 and 4 have been exponentially stronger than episodes 1 and 2. Much better pacing, more subtlety with the symbolism, far better dialogue, and far more nuance in exploring the character relationships as revealed by the subtle interactions between them. (And though I may well be alone in this, I also feel like the last two episodes have done a far better job of portraying Sarah Howard, portraying her as subject rather than object of male desires, emphasizing her own inner struggles over the John/ Sarah/ Kreitzler love triangle.) I think Gina Gionfriddo (who wrote the past two episodes) is a far stronger writer than Hossein Amini, who wrote episodes 1 and 2. 

The women in general were impressive this week. The dominatrix was both highly amusing and somewhat disturbing, as was Kreitzler's reaction to her. He was squirming like an adolescent, and it was really quite endearing. Learning he was turned on by some of her stories was mildly creepy, though. Also great was Mary, and Q'orianka Kilcher spot on portrayal of her. Her refusal to answer the door for Sarah was hilarious and deeply human. I enjoyed seeing her relax and enjoy herself on her date with John; and then her reaction (simultaneously exasperated and subdued) to Kreitzler's reprimanding her for leaving without telling him.

I also enjoyed seeing less of Sarah this week-- not that I dislike her, but there was a great deal of Sarah in the first three episodes, and putting her in the background just a bit allowed other characters to shine. I also liked how her scenes were primarily about her-- not her relationship with Lazlo and John, and how she is effecting both men emotionally, but about her as an individual. We got to explore how the investigation is effecting her emotionally, how she is handling her work life with her increasingly creepy coworkers, and saw her contribute to the investigation in a fairly natural way, without once having to view her as the object of male desire (John or Lazlo's) or the causer of male angst (again, John's or Lazlo's.) 

Exploring John and Lazlo's relationship was also fascinating. In the early episodes, particularly episode 2, it seemed as though the primary cause of their tension and conflict was Sarah-- whether or not she would contribute to the investigation, which of them she preferred, etc. However, this episode made it clear that there is a deep tension and conflict between them that has been there long before Sarah came into the picture. A fantastic interplay of resentment, mutual antagonism, deep affection, and a struggle for dominance in the that boot buttoning scene. 

Kreitzler's scene in Mary's room was, for me, probably the creepiest scene in the whole show. Those white shorts/ bloomers he held up to his face were the very closest garment women wore to their bodies in the Victorian Era; so we just saw Kreitzler engage in the Victorian equivalent of panty sniffing. Don't get me wrong, other scenes have been far more horrifying. But I came to the show expecting to see gross and horrible things from corrupt cops, serial killers, perverts, and child sociopaths. I was not expecting Our Hero to sneak into his servants room without permission to take a big old whiff of her panties.  A whole other side of Kreitzler, there. 

Random question: was Marcus supposed to be having sex in his families apartment? Was that woman on the other side of the curtain his mom, asleep? Where did the baby come from? And did poor Lucius have to listen to the whole thing? I was a bit confused there, because they showed the sex scene, then showed Marcus literally going into the next room, so were they at his house? And what was the point of the scene? 

Edited by Hazel55
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That ending was so creepy, both with them all meeting and then with the silver smile guy approaching the children in the shop.  Sent shivers down my spine.

This was a great episode.  Lots of character development and John actually standing up to Kreizler, at least in some things.  Sara seems to see Kreizler quite clearly now.  Lazlo really does push people away, hard.  It is surprising they keep coming back really. I keep thinking of what Daniel Bruhle said about Kreizler being an uncertain teenager with women, because otherwise that scene in Mary's room was just too creepy.  Loved seeing she was reading Louisa May Alcott's 'Rose in Bloom' - it's a great book.  It was a wonderful scene with the film.  I had never considered what it must have been like for people watching a film for the first time.

I also wondered where Marcus was having sex.  Was he in the apartment next door or something?  Was he wandering some hallway in his nightclothes?  Inquiring minds need to know.

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Marcus was in his gf's place. That was her family or someone she shares lodgings with on the other side of the curtain. She's poor. They used to stuff tons of people into one apartment.  Then he returned home to the space he shares with his brother afterward.

Edison was not the first to invent the moving picture. That was Lumiere in France
"The Lumieres’ device projected films onto a screen, a development which expanded the audience for motion pictures. Among the Lumiere’s more noted early films were “Workers Leaving a Factory” and “Arrival of a Train,” which caused some audiences to fear being run over by the locomotive. In response to the Lumieres, the ever resourceful Edison obtained the rights to a projector invented by C. Francis Jenkins and Thomas Armat in 1896."

I'm loving this show and have no knowledge of the plot since as I recall I only read the first chapter when the book came out. I found it slow going. Can't wati to see what comes next. 

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I rolled my eyes when jealous Laszlo reprimanded Mary for not telling him that she was going out. Uh, you weren't here when she left so it wasn't possible for her to tell you that she was leaving the house, jerk!

Regardless of what Moore's true reason was for impulsively inviting Mary, it was just nice to see her out of the house and smiling! Of course while the cat's away, the mouse will sniff her underwear.

I loved that we mostly saw the audience's reaction to the footage of the beach. Their astonishment was so fun to see, but it was also a good reminder of how much technology has changed. It's easy to take for granted that we can now communicate and watch videos on a piece of plastic that we keep in our pockets, but when I think about what existed when my mom was a kid and how much things have changed since then, I have to remember to cut her some slack when she calls me to ask a question about how to use her kindle.

The creepiest part of the episode was the killer inviting everyone to the theater, but I still had to laugh a little bit about that scene for multiple reasons. First of all, Laszlo is so socially inept, that he received an invitation to meet John at the theater, he showed up, and then demanded to know why John wanted him there because he is incapable of believing that they could just hang out together for an hour. I also cracked up when it was revealed that the killer used a different way to contact each of them. That was like when you don't want someone to know that you wrote every comment so you use different colored pens. But the whole inviting everyone out to the same place seemed like the opposite world cousin of when a bunch of teenagers tell their parents they're all spending the night at each other's houses.

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John Moore is a good egg. He really does seem to be the most romantic/emotional of the main 3. Sarah and Lazlo are more ruled by logic than emotions. I loved Moore picking up on Mary's jealousy over Sarah/Lazlo and taking her out to cheer her up. 

I also loved that he called Lazlo out on HIS jealousy over Moore/Mary.  For all his faults Moore seems to be the most aware of his emotions/issues even if he can't deal with them.

The final scene in the dance hall/show room was interesting. I kept wondering why no one, especially Moore and the Isaacsons didn't look up. 

I loved that Moore took Lazlo's snotty advice and in fact talked to a Dentist and got some info on the Silver Smile. I didn't think it was syphilis when then first talked about a silver smile. I figured a disfigurement or loss of teeth, resulting in Silver caps.

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I am very mixed on this show.  First, I think the production with sets, CGI of the turn of the century NY, the costumes are excellent..   I keep thinking why in the hell would people want to live in those conditions, on top of each other? Clearly there are very distinct class differences, and it is amazing that the "morals" of that period  were no place near puritan...  I now think if I was in that era in NY, I would get the hell west and deal with the dangers out that way rather than the dirt, filth, corruption in NY.

The bothersome for me is the fact that the storyline is strong on pedophilia and early gender exploitation of boys for gratification.  I realize that is the storyline.  I am watching for the revelation of the murderer and am intrigued by the early exploration into forensic science.. but damn.. we have some ugly, ugly shit happening.. got worse now that the mo-fo is freaking eating them too.

Finally, I like the dynamic of the team put together to find the killer.  BUT  I am weary of the romantic triangle formed among the group.  Just keep that to every modern day cop, medical show that is on tv now.. don't want that in the past era murder mystery stuff.

Also I think the silver tooth dude is a red herring and the killer is someone else..

Edited by tiredofwork
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Perhaps Kreizler is a dick because his damaged arm is symbolic emasculation and he's compensating? At any rate, I don't think there is a serious triangle. It's Sara/John and Mary/Laszlo, and any gestures towards triangularity are for camouflage, obfuscation and denial, not least to themselves. Sarah is reluctant to admit to feelings for John because 1) love is giving up a career in this time and 2) John is a man-slut. Kreizler won't admit to feelings for Mary because 1) a patient 2) she's the help and he's dependent, which galls him 3) the woman is jealous and demanding and may feel she has the right to hurt him if he pisses her off.  John is reluctant to admit because 1) he knows he's a man-slut, and is ashamed and 2) very wounded about being the sensitive artistic type while Sarah is so much not, but (so far) successfully competing with men in a way he can't and 3) he knows on some level he's kind of neurotic....which is why he's so attached to Kreizler. Mary is the strongest character in some ways because she has zero problems with marking her territory, which is Kreizler.  At least that's how it looks to me as of now.

 

A Freudian could write an article about the symbolism of the shoe buttoning. 

Mary left the door open and the undergarments on the floor on purpose, to taunt Kreizler, because she was pissed. I wonder if he'd have reacted to her challenge that way if the madam hadn't wound him up?

New data: Pitons, and of course silver smile. It is very unlikely silver smile isn't the killer I think, because silver smile coincidentally talking about taking the boy to a castle in the air by coincidence is to much.  A regular, yes, but that too? 

Edited by sjohnson
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I would have sworn on a stack of bibles that the man playing Silver Smile was the same one who played Mr. Abernathy in Fantastic Beasts, but a quick IMDB search tells me I'm wrong. Josef Altin and Kevin Guthrie look like twins! 

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19 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

When John went back to the brothel, I was screaming at my TV. 'No John, haven't you learned your lesson?!' The scene on the roof with him and Joseph was sweet.

 

I was saying the same thing! Like, come on John, you know this ended badly last time! Luckily it went better this time, and I thought the scene between him and Joseph was really endearing. John might talk the playboy talk, but he dont walk the walk. He is probably the most emotional member of the mystery solving team, and while they all have sympathy for the people involved, I think John is feeling that empathy the strongest. I also think if Sara would say she would have him, he would drop his frequent flier card at the local brothels and marry her in a heartbeat. It sounds like he was all ready to settle down with this woman who dumped him. 

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5 hours ago, tiredofwork said:

I am very mixed on this show.  First, I think the production with sets, CGI of the turn of the century NY, the costumes are excellent..   I keep thinking why in the hell would people want to live in those conditions, on top of each other? Clearly there are very distinct class differences, and it is amazing that the "morals" of that period  were no place near puritan...  I now think if I was in that era in NY, I would get the hell west and deal with the dangers out that way rather than the dirt, filth, corruption in NY.

I don't think people really wanted to live on top of each other, it was more out of necessity.  That was before the subway was invented and people lived in walking distance from where they worked, which was mainly the Lower East Side.  

As for morals, it's not surprising to me that the morals were not puritan.  I think people like to imagine that the "good old days" were better than these days, but when you really think about it, it wasn't all that great for most people.  

Also, there was corruption in the west as well.  If you have power, you're going to have corruption.  

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5 hours ago, sjohnson said:

  Kreizler won't admit to feelings for Mary because 1) a patient 2) she's the help and he's dependent, which galls him 3) the woman is jealous and demanding and may feel she has the right to hurt him if he pisses her off.  

My analysis of the John/ Sarah and the Mary/ Kreitzler situations is slightly different. 

I think its safe to say at this point that it appears Kreitzler is deeply in love with Mary. But I don't believe that his reluctance to start a relationship with her is because "her dependence.... galls him" or Mary is "jealous and demanding". (Kreitzler actually looked happy when Mary got jealous at one point, back in episode 2.) I believe that Kreitzler's reluctance to start a relationship with Mary is due to several factors, the smallest of which is that he fears taking advantage of Mary, due to her status as his employee.

However, I believe that a far greater factor is that Kreitzler's own fear of emotional vulnerbility. (It has been mentioned several times throughout the course of the show thus far that he avoids intimacy and "always pushes people away") . Kreitzler's terrified of getting close to people on an emotional (rather than intellectual) level.  Mary is already quite close to Kreitzler, both physically and emotionally.  If he did start something romantic with her, he simply couldn't withhold the emotional part of himself in the way that he usually does in his relationships.  (For instance, we've seen him use manipulation, deflection, and occasional cruelty to avoid revealling himself emotionally with both John and Sarah.) Kreitzler's refusal to take things to the next level with Mary is largely emotional self protection on his part. 

Furthermore, I believe that Kreitzler, on an unconscious level, believes that he is unworthy of Mary. He is clearly confident in his intellectual abilities to the point of arrogance. But subtle hints throughout the show have indicated that Kreitzler feels he is somehow bad, dirty, or "unworthy" on an emotional level. And despite the fact that Mary has killed her father, Kreitzler seems to view her as better and purer than he himself is; the way he came carefully into her rooms and gently touched her things made it appear he almost reveres her as something sacred and untouchable. (Until he got carried away with the creepy panty sniffing scene, that is.) Kreitzler has avoided revealing his feelings to Mary because he feels unworthy of her. 

5 hours ago, sjohnson said:

Sarah is reluctant to admit to feelings for John because 1) love is giving up a career in this time and 2) John is a man-slut. ........  John is reluctant to admit because 1) he knows he's a man-slut, and is ashamed and 2) very wounded about being the sensitive artistic type while Sarah is so much not, but (so far) successfully competing with men in a way he can't and 3) he knows on some level he's kind of neurotic....which is why he's so attached to Kreizler.

As for John and Sarah, I believe that he is in love with her (or rapidly getting there.) I don't believe that John is a "man slut" (as you put it) by choice or inclination. I believe that he is simply visiting the prostitutes for emotional self protection, after being rejected by his former fiance. (I also believe that, like Kreitzler, John feels unworthy of love, but for different reasons.) In my opinion, the only reason John hasn't made a move on Sarah is because he firmly believes that she will reject him, because she doesn't return his feelings. 

As for Sarah, I don't think she believes that John is a "man slut" either; she is savvy enough to see his brothel going habits for what they are: the pitiful attempts of an emotionally wounded and rejected man to slave his ego and achieve some sort of human connection without risking rejection. And I believe that despite her occasional frustration with him, Sarah is clearly very fond of John, and even loves him, in a way. 

Honestly, I believe that Sarah has been reluctant to begin a romantic relationship with John due primarily to one reason: she doesn't see him as her equal on an intellectual lelel. That is not to say that she sees him as useless or dumb;  but Sarah is both uncommonly sharp and uncommonly ambitious, and I believe that she is currently interested in finding someone who is "her match" on an intellectual level. Thus her (apparent) attraction to Kreitzler early on: possibly for the first time, Sarah had found a man whom she could consider her intellectual equal. (Like Kreitzler, I think it has been indicated that Sarah is somewhat arrogant about her intellectual abilities, and considers few people her equal in that department.) I believe that there is still an intellectual connection/ attraction between Sarah and Kreitzler, but around episode three, I believe Sarah began to realize (simultaneously) that Lazlo was not, emotionally speaking, what she wanted; and that he was clearly already in love with Mary. 

However, I agree with you that Sarah is also somewhat reluctant to begin a relationship with anyone, for fear of risking her career. 

Edited by Hazel55
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14 hours ago, tiredofwork said:

I am very mixed on this show.  First, I think the production with sets, CGI of the turn of the century NY, the costumes are excellent..   I keep thinking why in the hell would people want to live in those conditions, on top of each other? Clearly there are very distinct class differences, and it is amazing that the "morals" of that period  were no place near puritan...  I now think if I was in that era in NY, I would get the hell west and deal with the dangers out that way rather than the dirt, filth, corruption in NY.

There are still people who live in similar conditions today. No one, then or now, WANTS to live in tiny apartments with too many people and not enough space. People live like that because they HAVE to, because they can't afford better/larger/nicer accommodations.

There is a modern assumption that the sexual revolution just happened recently, but if you look back at the historical evidence there has been premarital sex, prostitution, orgies, etc. since time immemorial. All that stuff has been going on for centuries.

Filth and corruption was not limited to New York or urban areas. It existed way out in the western states and territories. Deadwood was set 20 years before The Alienist and it was just as dirty and dangerous in South Dakota as it was in New York. Corruption was rife in San Francisco - just ten years after The Alienist takes place, the mayor and several members of the board of supervisors were put on trial for graft because there was so much bribery going on. The Oregon land fraud scandal occurred around the same time (most of Oregon's U.S. congressional delegation were indicted).

On 2/12/2018 at 7:40 PM, pezgirl7 said:

When John went back to the brothel, I was screaming at my TV. 'No John, haven't you learned your lesson?!' The scene on the roof with him and Joseph was sweet.

Same here! I was like John, COME ON, returning to the scene of the crime? Don't do it!

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11 hours ago, Hazel55 said:

...(Kreitzler actually looked happy when Mary got jealous at one point, back in episode 2.)...

However, I believe that a far greater factor is that Kreitzler's own fear of emotional vulnerbility... Kreitzler's refusal to take things to the next level with Mary is largely emotional self protection on his part. 

Furthermore, I believe that Kreitzler, on an unconscious level, believes that he is unworthy of Mary. He is clearly confident in his intellectual abilities to the point of arrogance. But subtle hints throughout the show have indicated that Kreitzler feels he is somehow bad, dirty, or "unworthy" on an emotional level. And despite the fact that Mary has killed her father, Kreitzler seems to view her as better and purer than he himself is; the way he came carefully into her rooms and gently touched her things made it appear he almost reveres her as something sacred and untouchable. (Until he got carried away with the creepy panty sniffing scene, that is.) Kreitzler has avoided revealing his feelings to Mary because he feels unworthy of her....

As for John and Sarah, I believe that he is in love with her (or rapidly getting there.) I don't believe that John is a "man slut" (as you put it) by choice or inclination....

Honestly, I believe that Sarah has been reluctant to begin a romantic relationship with John due primarily to one reason: she doesn't see him as her equal on an intellectual level...

To me, Dr. K (solved the spelling crisis!) always looks happy when he gets a rise out of anyone at any moment.

But I agree about his fear of leaving himself vulnerable. I still think his physical dependence is a huge problem for him, but that's intertwined with more purely emotional aspects, so yours is the better way of expressing it. Still, I read all these characters as blatantly class conscious in a way that is only acceptable today among the rich, so being the help is a problem for Dr. K, not because of ethical qualms, but because it's slumming. 

I don't believe John is a man-slut either, but I have to disagree that it isn't a problem for Sarah. 

But I do very much agree that on one level Sarah doesn't see John as an equal. 

 

Overall, being creepy is unforgivable by most everybody, so clearly the show is telling us that Mary is abused and exploited and should be liberated from her oppressor. And this is still true even if the show tries to go back on it. It's the Mad Men dilemma, showing the past and endorsing the past can be tricky to separate.

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On 2/13/2018 at 3:25 AM, Lilly77 said:

That ending was so creepy, both with them all meeting and then with the silver smile guy approaching the children in the shop.  Sent shivers down my spine.

This was a great episode.  Lots of character development and John actually standing up to Kreizler, at least in some things.  Sara seems to see Kreizler quite clearly now.  Lazlo really does push people away, hard.  It is surprising they keep coming back really. I keep thinking of what Daniel Bruhle said about Kreizler being an uncertain teenager with women, because otherwise that scene in Mary's room was just too creepy.  Loved seeing she was reading Louisa May Alcott's 'Rose in Bloom' - it's a great book.  It was a wonderful scene with the film.  I had never considered what it must have been like for people watching a film for the first time.

I also wondered where Marcus was having sex.  Was he in the apartment next door or something?  Was he wandering some hallway in his nightclothes?  Inquiring minds need to know.

I have been getting a real creep factor from Kreitzler. 

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I initially thought Sarah's college roommates fiancé was the 'silver smile' killer.....I went back and looked between the two episodes and they looked similar and I do not think they showed the fiancé's teeth during his introduction but I am guessing I am wrong....           

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I thought the reveal of the silver smile was going to be a disappointment and nope, totally wrong about that, creepier than I had envisioned. The imagination is generally worse than the reality, so, well done show.

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The letter the killer sent to all of the principals was very reminiscent of Albert Fish, down to the cannibalism of children and not wanting to be associated with having sex with said children (as Fish spoke of Grace Budd).

That's exactly what I thought too!

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On 2/14/2018 at 11:59 AM, bosawks said:

I thought the reveal of the silver smile was going to be a disappointment and nope, totally wrong about that, creepier than I had envisioned. The imagination is generally worse than the reality, so, well done show.

It was well done.  Whenever I heard silver smile, I would imagine one of those grills rappers used to wear on their teeth in the early 2000's, which was a ridiculous image for this type of setting.

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I thought the brothel John and Marcus were investigating was a different one from Paresis Hall. It had a fancy shoe hanging in front and Paresis Hall has a pair of black shoes. Plus the madam (I'm assuming who that was).

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9 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

I thought the brothel John and Marcus were investigating was a different one from Paresis Hall. It had a fancy shoe hanging in front and Paresis Hall has a pair of black shoes. Plus the madam (I'm assuming who that was).

I noticed that too. Maybe it just has to be any shoe?

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12 hours ago, Terrafamilia said:

I thought the brothel John and Marcus were investigating was a different one from Paresis Hall. It had a fancy shoe hanging in front and Paresis Hall has a pair of black shoes. Plus the madam (I'm assuming who that was).

I'm pretty sure it was a different brothel. The one John got drugged at was the one that Giorgio went missing from, and I believe his room was on the 3rd floor. The second brothel was the one Ali (the boy found on the roof of the aquarium) was at. He was in a basement room that had a small window. The last time we saw Ali alive, he was dressed as a boy, and was staring excitingly at the small window. I'm guessing the murderer came down from the roof, through the window, and then they both left out the window. Then he took Ali to the aquarium, dressed him in a nightgown, and then killed him. I was little confused about John questioning how the killer got on the aquarium roof, because couldn't he have gotten on the same way John and company did? Using the stairs?

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On February 15, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Terrafamilia said:

I thought the brothel John and Marcus were investigating was a different one from Paresis Hall. It had a fancy shoe hanging in front and Paresis Hall has a pair of black shoes. Plus the madam (I'm assuming who that was).

It was a different brothel.  The first boy worked at Parisis Hall, the second at The Golden Rule.

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I rewatched some of the episodes, and now I'm doubting that silver smile is the killer. We hear the killer's voice a few times, and it sounds different than silver smile, and the man Kreizler chased at the end of the first episode seemed taller. Also, Ali said "What's wrong with your mouth?" and I feel like if he was referring to his teeth, he would have said teeth and not mouth.

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16 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

I rewatched some of the episodes, and now I'm doubting that silver smile is the killer. We hear the killer's voice a few times, and it sounds different than silver smile, and the man Kreizler chased at the end of the first episode seemed taller. Also, Ali said "What's wrong with your mouth?" and I feel like if he was referring to his teeth, he would have said teeth and not mouth.

I've been thinking that William isn't the killer, it's too soon. I think the Police think it's William and have been protecting him (for money) but, are just interfering with the real case/killer.

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I actually thought Sally's voice was dubbed, but upon hearing upon a YouTube segment, his voice is exactly like that. Damn. That is very shocking. The more you know about something. Looks like Stand By Me era Wil Wheaton in some of his promo pics.

Jamie Kaye

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On 2/12/2018 at 10:31 PM, eejm said:

The letter the killer sent to all of the principals was very reminiscent of Albert Fish, down to the cannibalism of children and not wanting to be associated with having sex with said children (as Fish spoke of Grace Budd).

 

On 2/15/2018 at 1:44 PM, TattleTeeny said:

That's exactly what I thought too!

Parts of the letter are pretty much verbatim quotes from Fish's letter to Mrs. Budd.

Spoiler

How sweet and tender her little ass was roasted in the oven. It took me 9 days to eat her entire body. I did not fuck her, though, I could of had I wished. She died a virgin.


I remember reading the book as a teenager and being particularly disturbed by the letter and how well Carr conveyed the absolute creepiness of it, then some years later found out about Fish and the fact that the letter was real only increased the horror.

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4 hours ago, dankesean said:

 

Parts of the letter are pretty much verbatim quotes from Fish's letter to Mrs. Budd.

  Reveal hidden contents

How sweet and tender her little ass was roasted in the oven. It took me 9 days to eat her entire body. I did not fuck her, though, I could of had I wished. She died a virgin.


I remember reading the book as a teenager and being particularly disturbed by the letter and how well Carr conveyed the absolute creepiness of it, then some years later found out about Fish and the fact that the letter was real only increased the horror.

Were you born in 1983 just like me? I read it in 2000.

Edited by Robert Lynch

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On 2/18/2018 at 7:08 PM, pezgirl7 said:

I rewatched some of the episodes, and now I'm doubting that silver smile is the killer. We hear the killer's voice a few times, and it sounds different than silver smile, and the man Kreizler chased at the end of the first episode seemed taller. Also, Ali said "What's wrong with your mouth?" and I feel like if he was referring to his teeth, he would have said teeth and not mouth.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who watches the episodes two or three times. I catch some innuendo or nuance almost every time. Thank you, I don't feel so stupid now. 

Love this show, never read the book. Thoroughly enjoy the sets and wardrobes. 

Love catching Dr. K in his little facial movements when he is proud of himself. 

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Question: Did the killer make the boys come up the building the same way he did? He didn't just carry them up his back, did he.

I continue to not care about Lucius and his sex life. It's like they inserted the storyline in case they think viewers might get bored with the talking and walk away mid episode.

I also thought a silver smile would mean actual silver teeth.

I learn so much from this show.

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11 hours ago, Aliferously said:

Question: Did the killer make the boys come up the building the same way he did? He didn't just carry them up his back, did he.

This is just a guess, but I think the killer carried them.

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