S02.E12: The Burrito

[Black Knight]

I understand the various points that have been made in regards to Tahahi's test. However, what it comes down to for me, and I haven't seen brought up in this forum, is whether Tahani would pass the test now. And I think she would. She had unresolved issues with her parents, but she was able to resolve them. I believe if she was sent down that corridor again, she'd walk right through.

A lot of this show seems to be specifically engaging with the idea that at an arbitrary certain point, it's too late. Consider, for instance, the theology that insists that atheists are all going to hell because they couldn't believe in a supernatural being. There's nothing immoral about that in itself, since you don't need to believe in a higher power to be a good person (and I am completely creeped out by the mentality that the only thing keeping you from being an axe murderer is a belief in a higher power - REALLY?!), but depending on who you talk to, you're doomed! Even if "God" finally presents itself to the atheist, thus enabling the atheist to realize there is a higher power after all, too bad, so sad! Off to hell with the atheist!

Tahani's test particularly strikes home with me because it's a conversation I've had with fellow managers during performance review time: What matters more, how the employee is now or how the employee was during the earlier period of time covered in the performance review. I've always preferred to look at how the employee is doing in recent months; if I've spoken to the employee about a particular behavior three months ago, and the employee has since corrected that behavior, then I prefer to acknowledge in the review that the employee has improved. But I've dealt with other managers who don't want to do that. In their eyes, the employee's mistake in January is all that matters, not what they've done since in February through December. The judge kind of reminded me of such managers.

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, Black Knight said:

whether Tahani would pass the test now. And I think she would. She had unresolved issues with her parents, but she was able to resolve them. I believe if she was sent down that corridor again, she'd walk right through.

I completely agree. Which is why, in my mind, she passed (for herself, obviously she didn't pass the test technically, but the test gave her the chance to finally resolve her biggest issue and move past it. ) She is a better person now than she was when she started the test. IDK, in my head that should count for something. And I think that is what Michael has realized. That it should count and he is going to do whatever he can to make it count.

I'm still pretty confused by Jason's test though. The rest were so clear cut. Tahani, fight the narcissist urge to know what people think about you. Eleanor, sell out your friends to save yourself, Chidi, make a decision. Jason...play a videogame against your favorite team? I have to admit, I still don't quite get it.

[possibilities]

Jason's test was to see if he was still completely impulsive or if he had developed the ability to delay gratification even for a few seconds. He cut Gen off when she was introducing the test and trying to tell him the rules. He got excited about playing the game and didn't let her finish explaining. So he failed because he didn't listen, didn't stop to think, and just went off on impulse rather than considering consequences or possibilities to solve a problem.

[Loandbehold]

13 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I understand the various points that have been made in regards to Tahahi's test. However, what it comes down to for me, and I haven't seen brought up in this forum, is whether Tahani would pass the test now. And I think she would. She had unresolved issues with her parents, but she was able to resolve them. I believe if she was sent down that corridor again, she'd walk right through.

Some tests you can take again practically right away. Others, you have to wait until the test is next scheduled (which, Gen might say is in 50,000,000 years). And, others can only be taken once. Either you pass or you fail. Like the bomb disarming final.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 1/26/2018 at 12:56 PM, Sakura12 said:

I read a book (I forgot what it was called) about the bad place and the whole time the main character was trying to get the good place, then when he did it was empty. Because when everything is perfect all the time, you can have anything you want at any time and nothing ever goes wrong ever it gets really boring and most of the people choose to go the bad place because at least they had variety in their eternity, they never knew what kind of torture they'd get but it kept their afterlife interesting. I wonder if this show will do something like that. 

That book sounds familiar. Was it a short story though? I thought there was a story about a gambler who dies and ends up in a casino where he wins all the time. Eventually, he gets really bored and asks to go to hell for a while just for variety. Then he's told that he's already in hell.

Anyway, this is one reason why the conventional idea of what "heaven" is like sounds immensely boring to me. I'm kind of hoping for no afterlife, since I can't imagine what I'd want to do for all eternity that wouldn't get boring.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

8 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

That book sounds familiar. Was it a short story though? I thought there was a story about a gambler who dies and ends up in a casino where he wins all the time. Eventually, he gets really bored and asks to go to hell for a while just for variety. Then he's told that he's already in hell.

Anyway, this is one reason why the conventional idea of what "heaven" is like sounds immensely boring to me. I'm kind of hoping for no afterlife, since I can't imagine what I'd want to do for all eternity that wouldn't get boring.

Twilight Zone episode:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Nice_Place_to_Visit?wprov=sfla1

Edited February 18, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[amaranta]

9 hours ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I can't imagine what I'd want to do for all eternity that wouldn't get boring.

This is going to come off as incredibly misanthropic, which I'm not really, but I've had four dogs in my life time and I think if you gave me forever and ever with them at our favorite park by the lake I'd be good with that.

Jason's test seems as if it should be the easiest to pass, but I think - keeping the character in mind - it was actually the hardest.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 2/18/2018 at 11:44 AM, amaranta said:

This is going to come off as incredibly misanthropic, which I'm not really, but I've had four dogs in my life time and I think if you gave me forever and ever with them at our favorite park by the lake I'd be good with that.

Assuming the dogs didn't gain the ability to converse, don't you think would occasionally miss something?  One can love being home with one's kids, but never having an actual adult conversation can be incredibly lonely. Not quite Tom Hanks with Wilson, but still.

Edited February 19, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[amaranta]

3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Assuming the dogs didn't gain the ability to converse

But... but... it's The Good Place! :-)

[Mabinogia]

If the Good Place isn't full of talking dogs, I don't wanna go. 

[Bruinsfan]

An eternity of "Get the ball! Throw the ball!" doesn't sound all that great to me. Give me the Bad Place and the serene silent judgment of my cats.

[ByTor]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:46 AM, Black Knight said:

I understand the various points that have been made in regards to Tahahi's test. However, what it comes down to for me, and I haven't seen brought up in this forum, is whether Tahani would pass the test now. And I think she would. She had unresolved issues with her parents, but she was able to resolve them. I believe if she was sent down that corridor again, she'd walk right through.

Yes, if she was able to do it again she would very likely walk straight through the hall after confronting her parents.  The idea of the test, though, was for her to walk through without confronting them (or anybody), so she failed the test, a do-over would be meaningless.

[Black Knight]

6 hours ago, ByTor said:

Yes, if she was able to do it again she would very likely walk straight through the hall after confronting her parents.  The idea of the test, though, was for her to walk through without confronting them (or anybody), so she failed the test, a do-over would be meaningless.

I'm aware...the rest of my post explored the mentality of considering a do-over meaningless. Starting with: "A lot of this show seems to be specifically engaging with the idea that at an arbitrary certain point, it's too late."

The point being, a do-over doesn't have to be meaningless. It depends on whether you're interested in who the person currently is, or whether you've decided that after a certain point, personal growth no longer matters. Eleanor and Tahani were both sent to the Bad Place, but because Eleanor was lucky enough to have her personal growth before she took the test while Tahani had her personal growth after the test, Eleanor gets judged worthy of the Good Place and Tahani is doomed to the Bad Place. Why is that the line in the sand? That question cuts both ways, mind you: Everybody except these 4 got judged when they died, and none of them got a test afterwards. If selecting an arbitrary point at which personal growth no longer matters is valid, then why isn't that arbitrary point at the time of death? Or if it was right for these four to get a test long after their deaths, then why is it not right to allow a second test? It's an arbitrary decision.

I'm pretty sure ultimately the show is going to stake out the position that it's silly to assign someone a fate for all of eternity based on an arbitrary point in time. People aren't static. Concepts like karmic reincarnation and purgatory acknowledge that.

[WillowRaylis]

It would be awesome if a sentient burrito was actually the judge of the universe and I bet eating sentient burritos would be th3 worst move because no one wants all knowing gas

[John Potts]

Wow - Eleanor chose damnation with her friends over heaven! And told them that she failed as well, purely to make them feel better. That's some growth.

I thought it was some character assassination of Chidi when he said they should leave without the others, so I'm glad that was just Eleanor's test.

I guess Michael is somehow going to get them a reprieve (or at perhaps a retrial)?

Loved this exchange:

Eleanor: "You understand about 20% of what's going on"

Jason: "Aw, thanks"

Tahani's test reminded me of Orpheus and Eurydice (and like Orpheus, Tahani failed it). I don't have a problem with the test having secret conditions because so did everyone else's - Eleanor was told she and Chidi could leave without the others (she would presumably have failed had she taken that offer), Chidi's wasn't told there was a time limit on his choice and we have no idea what the conditions of Jason's test were because he didn't wait to hear them. In fact, Jason's test reminded me of this.

On ‎1‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 1:45 PM, possibilities said:

I wonder who case #00001 was.

I thought it might be Mindy, too, though you'd think a case would have arisen before then (particularly as Mindy presumably died sometime around 2000)

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 4:48 AM, Big Mother said:

3) How was Janet able to manhandle Shawn like that??? I thought he's an allpowerful invincible being.

This goes with my theory that Janet is God. Also, I don't think Sean (Shawn?) is meant to be omnipotent (clearly not, or Janet couldn't throw him around like that), so much as a mid level bureaucrat. If there is a Satan figure in the TGPverse, we haven't met him yet (IMO).

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:57 PM, snowwhyte said:

Chidi was wearing tan pants, of course he should have picked the brown hat!

But he was wearing a white shirt, so the white hat would match that. Then again, nobody should ever take my opinion on anything fashion related.

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 3:59 PM, JessDVD said:

I am having a really, really hard time reconciling Eleanor Shellstrop with Anna of Arendelle, which is probably a testament to how amazing Kristen Bell is.

Whereas I instinctively think of Kristen Bell as Veronica Mars, but I guess they won't have seen that (at least I'd hope not).

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 6:23 AM, WillowRaylis said:

It would be awesome if a sentient burrito was actually the judge of the universe

Doctor Who portrayed "God" (well, the Avatar of a sentient Universe, at any rate) as a bullfrog!

[aradia22]

Ah!!! Maya Rudolph. This is the best possible version of the judge.

Even for someone who wasn't Tahani that was a crazy test. 

GASP! Good Janet! OK, that was a twist.

I was surprised into a genuine laugh when Chidi's test was not a copy of Eleanor's test but just him choosing between two hats.

Love that in spite of the progress they've made, 3/4 of them failed the tests.

[ByTor]

On 8/16/2019 at 12:00 PM, John Potts said:

Tahani's test reminded me of Orpheus and Eurydice (and like Orpheus, Tahani failed it). I don't have a problem with the test having secret conditions

I don't think there were secret conditions, I'm pretty sure Tahani was told she wasn't allowed to go through any of the doors.

[John Potts]

22 hours ago, ByTor said:

I don't think there were secret conditions, I'm pretty sure Tahani was told she wasn't allowed to go through any of the doors. 

Nope. The Judge said, "All you have to do is go through there, down the hallway and through the red door at the end... also, everyone, in every room is going to be discussing what they really think about you." Now you can say it was implied that she couldn't go through any of the side doors, but Tahani did go down the corridor and through the red door (just not directly).

ETA: That said, Tahani says (to herself) that she has to walk down the corridor without visiting any of the rooms. So she believed (correctly, as it turned out) that was part of the test.

Edited September 7, 2019 by John Potts

[Dobian]

I didn't see Tahani failing by going into her parents' room.  It would seem to me that confronting them and finding resolution is the healthy thing, not avoiding it and keeping your feelings bottled up.  If she went in there and it turned into a shit show then that would be a fail.  But she was mature and understood that she did not need to win her argument with them.  She realized that the problem was with them and not her, that it was their loss, and she wished them well and left.  Sounds like growth to me.

Chidi with the hats was classic Chidi.  Maya Rudolph's, "They're hats, man!" cracked me up.

I really liked the twist this season, and Maya Rudolph was a good choice for the Judge.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Dobian