S01.E05: Point of Origin

[Drogo]

The crew races to an emergency when disaster strikes at an Indian wedding. Abby enlists the help of Buck to try and find her mother and, for the first time, meets Athena face-to-face. Meanwhile, Bobby has a difficult time confronting his past and Hen struggles to make the right decision.

[Empress1]

That was sad. Bobby is carrying so much guilt. It reminded me of the movie Manchester by the Sea.

And I kind of want Abby & Buck to get together. She deserves some happiness! Get it, Abby!

Tracie Thoms!

[bilgistic]

Does anyone know if the floor collapse was based on a real event? It reminded me of the Jakarta Stock Exchange floor collapse, but that was just earlier this month.

I thought the apartment building fire sounded a lot like the Grenfell Tower fire in London last year. Subpar building materials aided in the fire spreading quickly.

I just didn't quite buy that Bobby would've left the heater and lantern burning when he left the spare apartment, even if he was on pills and drinking. I know we aren't exactly going for realism here, but that bugged me. He wasn't stumbling around drunk. He was functional enough to walk up several flights of stairs to the roof.

[Irlandesa]

34 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I just didn't quite buy that Bobby would've left the heater and lantern burning when he left the spare apartment, even if he was on pills and drinking. I know we aren't exactly going for realism here, but that bugged me. He wasn't stumbling around drunk. He was functional enough to walk up several flights of stairs to the roof.

Yeah.  I like Peter Krause but I'm just not feeling this great big tragedy.

I thought Buck and Abby had a surprising amount of chemistry.  It's the most I've liked him.

[NJRadioGuy]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Does anyone know if the floor collapse was based on a real event? It reminded me of the Jakarta Stock Exchange floor collapse, but that was just earlier this month.

I thought the apartment building fire sounded a lot like the Grenfell Tower fire in London last year. Subpar building materials aided in the fire spreading quickly.

I just didn't quite buy that Bobby would've left the heater and lantern burning when he left the spare apartment, even if he was on pills and drinking. I know we aren't exactly going for realism here, but that bugged me. He wasn't stumbling around drunk. He was functional enough to walk up several flights of stairs to the roof.

The floor collapse was indeed based on several real-life incidents, and the apartment building was most definitely modeled on Grenfell (no sprinklers, flammable cladding, etc). Liked the pool rescue, but it was a bit unrealistic as shown. Pool decks are wet. Although I'd wager it, too, was based on a real rescue. That one got me right in the fear-center. High voltage frightens the everlivingcrap outta me since you can't see it coming to kill you, and kill you it will, usually quite painfully. The downed line had a pole pig on it—a step-down transformer that takes in nominally 14,000-18,000 Volts (not 5,000), and drops it down to 240 Volts for residential distribution. I got bit by 750V once and that was enough; I was lucky to just be thrown 30 feet across the room by it, and the scar on by right hand is a constant reminder never to f*ck with anything juicier than 12 Volts. Yeah, even in full bunker gear I don't want to get within 500 feet of a downed primary line that "may or may not" be energized.

The heater makes no sense whatsoever. First off, it's an apartment. What apartment building in a climate like MPLS dosn't have central radiator heat in every single unit? I'm assuming since he had a key to it, he was paying rent, so why would he not have bitched about no heat? Second, a propane-fired space heater inside? Hello carbon monoxide suffocation within minutes. At first I thought that's how the family was going to die—somehow the CO leaks up to their flat and poisons them in their sleep. This way made less sense, but was a far more dramatic reveal.

A better way to play it would have been instead of an apartment, put the family in a house. He's confronting his demons in an unheated attached garage, falls asleep near the space heater (but with just enough fresh air from a cracked garage door or something to survive, but the family perishes.

But here's the thing. The way they played it, that makes him an actual killer of 150-odd people. 150 counts of criminal negligence causing death would land him in prison for most of his life. You don't "just walk away" from that. There's no anonymity for starting a fire that kills that many people, even if it's accidental. So. Even if he was found and not charged, no way he ever gets hired on a fire department again. And even let's say that happens, you tell that secret to anyone you'll never have a single firefighter follow you into an incident again. Yeah, sorry guys, shoulda stuck with CO poisoning of just his family. Same guilt, no bullshit.

Buck, go lick that primary transformer wire for me and see if the power's off. Get off my screen. Now.

Abby, you can do so much better, but for all that's good and holy, toss those coveralls in the nearest dumpster. You look like a plumberess. Or is that a toilet sweep? Or a clog wench?

I give the mother until the end of February network sweeps to cack it, incidentally.

Don't give a rat's ass about Hen's ex. We know how crap like this always plays out in TV Land. Hint: it never ends well.

Despite these flaws, I did like it episode on the whole. Certainly an improvement—a slight one—over the first couple.

[bilgistic]

Those overalls were indeed a mess. She looked like she was trying to look (too) young and just ended up looking like she was painting the house. Or like a tall toddler.

[flyingmontana]

I enjoy reading the critiques here about realism, from those who have actual experience in the field. Something else that bothered me in this episode, in terms of the emotional realism, was the way that Buck and Abby walked away from the pool scene as soon as the little girl was safe, talking about what a high that was, acting euphoric as though there was no longer a care in the world. Um, there's a potentially dead young man floating in the pool behind you. It didn't make any sense for Abby's character to suddenly not care at all about what happened to him--were they going to be able to revive him? Or was he a lost cause? Either way, there's no way she would have been leaving the scene with such gleeful oblivion.

[HunterHunted]

8 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Does anyone know if the floor collapse was based on a real event?

5 hours ago, NJRadioGuy said:

The floor collapse was indeed based on several real-life incidents

 

It was. There is video of it online, but I didn't include it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versailles_wedding_hall_disaster?wprov=sfla1

[seewillrun]

I was watching while also on the phone so don't know how the conversation started but why does a search for your missing-for-nine-hours mother segue into how long it's been since you've had sex?  Also, did it take Buck arriving for them to actually, you know, get out of the house and look for her?  AND if you're driving around looking for someone, why wouldn't you split up so you could cover more ground? 

Bobby's story is certainly sad, but as mentioned above, he didn't just kill his family, his actions directly killed over 150 people.  Shows are known for giving these sad backstories to their characters in order to get sympathy from the viewers, but this does not make me like or feel sorry for Bobby at all.  Maybe they want us to blame the big bad landlord for all the code violations and I would do that IF the fire had started from faulty wiring or something.  But when a fireman causes the fire to start with... it's all on him.

Back in the old days of TWOP, when reviewers would hate-watch (and thus hate-review) a show, I wondered why bother?  But I think I get the appeal now.

[Lithogirl]

I’m really just watching this show due to my great love for Connie Britton and Peter Krause. The show itself is...not one of their better projects imo.

[tallykat]

Oh, I get it now--they are really all dead and in purgatory waiting to crossover. When they are all ready, they'll meet in a church and finally Bobby will show up and...the end. That's the only way this show could make sense.

[Chaos Theory]

Ignorw

Edited February 1, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, seewillrun said:

 

Bobby's story is certainly sad, but as mentioned above, he didn't just kill his family, his actions directly killed over 150 people.  Shows are known for giving these sad backstories to their characters in order to get sympathy from the viewers, but this does not make me like or feel sorry for Bobby at all.  Maybe they want us to blame the big bad landlord for all the code violations and I would do that IF the fire had started from faulty wiring or something.  But when a fireman causes the fire to start with... it's all on him.

 

The lamp or whatever shouldn’t have started the level of fire it did if the building was up to code.  The contractor use substandard materials and the landlord used cheap material and no fire alarms.  If the building had been up to code there wouldn’t have been such carnage.   Bobby was the match that lit the fire but you need some sort of accelerant for it to go ablaze the way it did.  Bobby does blame himself.  He would have caught the lack of fire safety if he wasn’t an addict which is why the guilt. This kind of tragedy is allot of bad choices manifested.

As for Abby and Buck I kinda like them together despite Bucks weird obsession with sex.  .       

Edited February 1, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[milner]

I think I am finished with this show and I had such high hopes for it.  I can hand wave a fire station with only three people, and Buck being irresistible to any woman he meets, therapist included etc etc.   But Bobby being responsible for the death of 150 people,  Abby not locking her door at night so her mom can't get out,  a guy asking you details of your sex life on your first "date"  when by the way she is supposed to be in a panic over her lost mother is too much.. 

 And maybe I am a prude but their 'phone sex' made me squirm and lets face it Connie is 48 to his 23  it makes her appear desperate.  (Yes I know men are always portrayed as much older than the women on tv, and I don't like that either)

 Its like the writers want to pack every possible thing into one episode. 

Finally, given I came to watch this show mainly for Connie and Peter I am unimpressed with their acting in this show.  Maybe they are rushing them through episodes but Bobby's crying and angst is just not well done.  

[NJRadioGuy]

Quote

I can hand wave a fire station with only three people

It's four (Chimney's still recovering and we had Firefighter NoLines replacing him this week), Hen, Buck and Bobby, and that's actually typical for an engine company. Officer, driver/engineer, two operating FFs.

1 hour ago, milner said:

I can hand wave ... Buck being irresistible to any woman he meets, therapist included etc etc.   But Bobby being responsible for the death of 150 people,  Abby not locking her door at night so her mom can't get out,  a guy asking you details of your sex life on your first "date"  when by the way she is supposed to be in a panic over her lost mother is too much.. 

 And maybe I am a prude but their 'phone sex' made me squirm and lets face it Connie is 48 to his 23  it makes her appear desperate.  (Yes I know men are always portrayed as much older than the women on tv, and I don't like that either)

It's possible she did lock the door, but her mom just unlocked it. At least where I live, there are building code prohibitions against having double-key deadbolts on apartments, meaning the only door locks on an apartment entry door have to have thumb locks.

The personal stuff with Buck and Abby actually didn't bother me. They're grownups and she can decide if a certain topic is out of bounds on their "date." Yeah, the phone stuff was creepy, too, but again, I give 'em a pass since they're both consenting adults. Nothing wrong with a 48 YO woman being turned on at the thought of a fit and willing 23 YO partner, and if he's equally into her, good on 'em both. Now, are they a good match? I don't think so, but stranger things have happened.

[Empress1]

38 minutes ago, NJRadioGuy said:

It's four (Chimney's still recovering and we had Firefighter NoLines replacing him this week), Hen, Buck and Bobby, and that's actually typical for an engine company. Officer, driver/engineer, two operating FFs.

It's possible she did lock the door, but her mom just unlocked it. At least where I live, there are building code prohibitions against having double-key deadbolts on apartments, meaning the only door locks on an apartment entry door have to have thumb locks.

The personal stuff with Buck and Abby actually didn't bother me. They're grownups and she can decide if a certain topic is out of bounds on their "date." Yeah, the phone stuff was creepy, too, but again, I give 'em a pass since they're both consenting adults. Nothing wrong with a 48 YO woman being turned on at the thought of a fit and willing 23 YO partner, and if he's equally into her, good on 'em both. Now, are they a good match? I don't think so, but stranger things have happened.

Connie Britton is playing a little younger than her age - Abby is 42, I think. Not sure how old Buck is supposed to be. I didn't know the actor was 23; I was thinking 25, 26. I agree with you - I just think, if Buck is the first person who has made Abby feel "seen" in a long time and there's a mutual attraction, why not? Doesn't necessarily have to be anything serious, but I don't think there's harm in exploring the mutual attraction. You could tell Buck was pleased when he saw Abby. (I think Connie Britton is beautiful, although her oft-discussed hair needs a trim.) She deserves to have a little fun.

Abby's mom could have unlocked the door but last episode they also showed Abby falling asleep in her clothes on the couch after a rough day (that was the plane crash, where she played the grieving widow her husband's call), so I could also buy that she hadn't done whatever the nighttime routine was.

3 hours ago, seewillrun said:

I was watching while also on the phone so don't know how the conversation started but why does a search for your missing-for-nine-hours mother segue into how long it's been since you've had sex?  Also, did it take Buck arriving for them to actually, you know, get out of the house and look for her?  AND if you're driving around looking for someone, why wouldn't you split up so you could cover more ground? 

Bobby's story is certainly sad, but as mentioned above, he didn't just kill his family, his actions directly killed over 150 people.  Shows are known for giving these sad backstories to their characters in order to get sympathy from the viewers, but this does not make me like or feel sorry for Bobby at all.  Maybe they want us to blame the big bad landlord for all the code violations and I would do that IF the fire had started from faulty wiring or something.  But when a fireman causes the fire to start with... it's all on him.

Back in the old days of TWOP, when reviewers would hate-watch (and thus hate-review) a show, I wondered why bother?  But I think I get the appeal now.

There was a weird lack of urgency when Abby was looking for her mother, I noticed, and Abby's panic sort of faded away. Even the caregiver, who has been shown to be very good at her job, just made a quip about how Mom was a fast walker. Abby's mother is an older woman with dementia. She wandered out of the house in the middle of the night and ended up in what I think is a fairly dangerous area. The guys who found her were nice, but not everyone is. She could have been killed, and as the guy pointed out, it's only going to get worse. I hope Abby will consider a memory care unit now. I have a great-uncle with dementia (he's bedridden now, in his late 80s), and the defining moment for the family was a wandering incident.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Empress1

[Chaos Theory]

6 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Connie Britton is playing a little younger than her age - Abby is 42, I think. Not sure how old Buck is supposed to be. I didn't know the actor was 23; I was thinking 25, 26. I agree with you - I just think, if Buck is the first person who has made Abby feel "seen" in a long time and there's a mutual attraction, why not? Doesn't necessarily have to be anything serious, but I don't think there's harm in exploring the mutual attraction. You could tell Buck was pleased when he saw Abby. (I think Connie Britton is beautiful, although her oft-discussed hair needs a trim.) She deserves to have a little fun.

There was a weird lack of urgency when Abby was looking for her mother, I noticed, and Abby's panic sort of faded away. He mother is an older woman with dementia. She wandered out of the house in the middle of the night and ended up in what I think is a fairly dangerous area. The guys who found her were nice, but not everyone is. She could have been killed, and as the guy pointed out, it's only going to get worse. I hope Abby will consider a memory care unit now. I have a great-uncle with dementia (he's bedridden now, in his late 80s), and the defining moment for the family was a wandering incident.

I don’t know.  My grandmother had demenia as well and wandered off a couple times but we knew that putting her in a home would have killed her so we hired a home care nurse.  My grandmother had the kind of personality that would never have survived any kind of home.  

[Empress1]

2 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I don’t know.  My grandmother had demenia as well and wandered off a couple times but we knew that putting her in a home would have killed her so we hired a home care nurse.  My grandmother had the kind of personality that would never have survived any kind of home.  

My great-uncle receives in-home care as well, 24/7. His two sons live flying distance away, one across the country and one in the southeast, and his wife died years ago. The conversation was "What do we do about Dad?" and they and their spouses ran through all the options: can one of us move in with him (no, both had families they couldn't uproot and one of them has a career that requires extensive travel), can we move him to us (no, they didn't think he'd survive a major move like that), do we put him in a facility? And they landed on in-home care. The younger son can afford it.

It's not about a facility specifically. I more mean that until now, Abby has not considered doing anything other than keeping her mother at home and caring for her herself. She hasn't even entertained the kind of conversation her brother tried to have with her - she shut him down. Now she should. It would be reasonable to bring Doug Savant back and show him and Abby sitting with the caregiver (and others on Mom's care team but the show might not have the budget for that!) and having a "what do we do about Mom?" conversation. It sounds like you and your family had that about your grandmother. Abby hasn't had that yet and she needs to.

[rose321]

Did they say that Bobby had already lost his job before the fire?  Because it would be unusual for even a lower middle-class family to be living in an apartment like that in St. Paul.  Most families, even lower middle class and some poor families live in houses (including rentals), not apartments.  So if Bobby did lose his job and that forced them to move there, he could feel guilty for that as well.  Of course it course it could just be an inaccuracy in the show - it certainly wouldn't be the biggest one.

My interpretation of the second apartment was that it was an unoccupied one that he somehow was able to use. I think he may have mentioned something about the super near the end of the episode? In that case, the heat and electricity may have been turned off, which would explain why he was using a gas lamp and heater.  It still would be extremely careless for anyone, much less a firefighter, to leave them on unattended though.

Side note, I hate that movies and TV shows seem to always use Minnesota as a stand in for a faraway place that characters either come from or move to.  But in this case Peter Krause really is from Minnesota, so I guess it can be forgiven.

[NJRadioGuy]

31 minutes ago, rose321 said:

My interpretation of the second apartment was that it was an unoccupied one that he somehow was able to use. I think he may have mentioned something about the super near the end of the episode? In that case, the heat and electricity may have been turned off, which would explain why he was using a gas lamp and heater.  It still would be extremely careless for anyone, much less a firefighter, to leave them on unattended though.

I can see the electricity being off if it was vacant, but there would always be heat; the risk of pipes bursting would be too great otherwise. Burst pipes in an apartment building would cause massive flood damage to the unit and everything below it, plus it makes economic sense to have central heat in the building. I doubt any building in that part of the world would not have central heat.

[AllAboutEve]

I love this show but some of the dialogue is so cringe-worthy..

Abby and Buck's conversations in the car/on the phone..just gave me the creeps and not in a good way.. Someone in that writers-room needs to step up.. 
 

[jhlipton]

On 1/31/2018 at 10:52 PM, NJRadioGuy said:

Abby, you can do so much better, but for all that's good and holy, toss those coveralls in the nearest dumpster. You look like a plumberess. Or is that a toilet sweep? Or a clog wench?

I could maybe sort of kind of see her wearing them around the house, but when Buck says he's coming over -- hell to the no!

20 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I hope Abby will consider a memory care unit now. I have a great-uncle with dementia (he's bedridden now, in his late 80s), and the defining moment for the family was a wandering incident.

When we were looking for a place for my mom -- who had in-home care but she would leave the gas burners lit, so we had to move her -- we found out that some senior centers won't take "wanderers" and some will take patients with dementia but not Alzheinmer's.  She really has to do the research.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, I figured Bobby had some skeletons in his closet, but wasn't expecting an "I accidentally set fire to an apartment building while in a drunken stupor and not only killed my wife and kids, but 150 others" bone!  That certainly puts Manchester by the Sea's fuck-up to shame!

Oh, Hen.  Have you not seen any other television show ever made?  Whenever you have an ex in jail and they claim they are getting better?  They are not getting better!

Abby and Buck actually being together was the most I ever liked Buck, but I still can't quite figure out what is going on with this relationship.

Glad to see that all the numerous Indian weddings I've attended in the past have never ended as badly as this one did!

[milner]

I wonder if Abby's bad hair and clothing is a set up so she can have a Cinderella style make-over at some point.   However, I will never find out cuz as I said earlier I am done.   

[mojoween]

I must have misunderstood what this show was going to be about because I thought it was going to be more like a procedural, where we would have several 911 calls a show, rather than one where it’s all drama in the lives of the characters with a couple of calls.  That bums me out.

That said, Abby can date whoever she wants as long as it’s legal, just keep your phone sex off-screen, mmkay?  It’s not that I’m a prude, it’s that their dialogue was incredibly unsexy and uncomfortable.

[Clanstarling]

On 1/31/2018 at 7:48 PM, bilgistic said:

I just didn't quite buy that Bobby would've left the heater and lantern burning when he left the spare apartment, even if he was on pills and drinking. I know we aren't exactly going for realism here, but that bugged me. He wasn't stumbling around drunk. He was functional enough to walk up several flights of stairs to the roof.

That bugged me too, but I handwaved it to he was groggy from waking up and in a rush to get back home.

On 1/31/2018 at 11:34 PM, flyingmontana said:

I enjoy reading the critiques here about realism, from those who have actual experience in the field. Something else that bothered me in this episode, in terms of the emotional realism, was the way that Buck and Abby walked away from the pool scene as soon as the little girl was safe, talking about what a high that was, acting euphoric as though there was no longer a care in the world. Um, there's a potentially dead young man floating in the pool behind you. It didn't make any sense for Abby's character to suddenly not care at all about what happened to him--were they going to be able to revive him? Or was he a lost cause? Either way, there's no way she would have been leaving the scene with such gleeful oblivion.

Pretty sure the guy was dead, but yeah, that reaction was a bit odd.

On 2/1/2018 at 7:53 AM, Chaos Theory said:

The lamp or whatever shouldn’t have started the level of fire it did if the building was up to code.  The contractor use substandard materials and the landlord used cheap material and no fire alarms.  If the building had been up to code there wouldn’t have been such carnage.   Bobby was the match that lit the fire but you need some sort of accelerant for it to go ablaze the way it did.  Bobby does blame himself.  He would have caught the lack of fire safety if he wasn’t an addict which is why the guilt. This kind of tragedy is allot of bad choices manifested.

And the sprinklers weren't turned on. There are fires in apartments all the time, they don't generally take out the entire building and many of the tenants.

On 2/1/2018 at 10:13 AM, Empress1 said:

Abby's mom could have unlocked the door but last episode they also showed Abby falling asleep in her clothes on the couch after a rough day (that was the plane crash, where she played the grieving widow her husband's call), so I could also buy that she hadn't done whatever the nighttime routine was.

In a situation like that, I would assume the care giver would automatically lock the door behind her. We do at our house. But when they start wandering, they need to be in a locked memory care facility if you can't afford 24 hour care. That's where my father spent his last days. They took great care of him, and it was almost like an actual home.

On 2/1/2018 at 10:35 PM, rose321 said:

Did they say that Bobby had already lost his job before the fire?  Because it would be unusual for even a lower middle-class family to be living in an apartment like that in St. Paul.  Most families, even lower middle class and some poor families live in houses (including rentals), not apartments.  So if Bobby did lose his job and that forced them to move there, he could feel guilty for that as well.  Of course it course it could just be an inaccuracy in the show - it certainly wouldn't be the biggest one.

I've lived most of my life in apartments by choice (mine or my parents), so I'm not sure why that translates to poor or jobless. Some people just don't want to commit to a mortgage, take care of lawns, or shovel snow.  Maybe it's different in St. Paul.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I've lived most of my life in apartments by choice (mine or my parents), so I'm not sure why that translates to poor or jobless. Some people just don't want to commit to a mortgage, take care of lawns, or shovel snow.  Maybe it's different in St. Paul.

Maybe St. Paul doesn't have a lot of apartments. I have no idea if that's true, I've never been there. But I had an intern from TN who commented that everybody where she was from (I can't remember the name of the town) lives in houses, even renters, college students who live off campus, etc. The size of the house and the neighborhood it was in dictated how much it cost, of course, and some people rented and some people owned, but there just weren't a lot of apartment buildings where she lived, so people lived in houses or trailers. Coming to a place where basically everyone lived in apartments (this was in NYC) was novel for her.

[Kimnet]

I'm from Minnesota, about 45 minutes north of the Twin Cities (Mpls/StPaul) and in my town it's mostly houses. But most people that live in either downtown, live in apartments or condos. Once you get out of the city and into the suburbs, then you get houses. Still a lot of apartments and condos, though. They range from places that would accept HUD to super luxury.

I thought it was kind of cool that they used St.Paul for Bobby's background story since Peter Krause is from Roseville, which is an inner ring suburb very close to St.Paul. 

That being said, his back story is ridiculous. The cheif is responsible for a fire that not only killed his family but an additional 150+? Good grief. I'm used to overkill when it comes to Ryan Murphy shows, but c'mon...?

[NJRadioGuy]

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Pretty sure the guy was dead, but yeah, that reaction was a bit odd.

Yup, crispy-critter, given what they described as the facts. And let's just say for the sake of everybody watching on TV, it was not realistic-looking. I'll leave it at that. 

5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

And the sprinklers weren't turned on. There are fires in apartments all the time, they don't generally take out the entire building and many of the tenants.

Normally, of course they don't. The fire depicted in Bobby's building was based on the real-life Grenfell Tower fire in London last June, in which 71 people died. In that case cladding that was not up to code was bolted on to the building, there was only one staircase for the entire building, and no sprinklers, among other problems. In the episode here, the responding firefighters mentioned siding, and that the sprinklers weren't working.

If you're interested, read this Wikipedia article on what happened, and how: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire. The failures that led to this are unimaginable, and had it not happened in real life but portrayed as such in the movies, I'd never have believed it possible in a first-world country in 2017.

[Clanstarling]

48 minutes ago, NJRadioGuy said:

Yup, crispy-critter, given what they described as the facts. And let's just say for the sake of everybody watching on TV, it was not realistic-looking. I'll leave it at that. 

Normally, of course they don't. The fire depicted in Bobby's building was based on the real-life Grenfell Tower fire in London last June, in which 71 people died. In that case cladding that was not up to code was bolted on to the building, there was only one staircase for the entire building, and no sprinklers, among other problems. In the episode here, the responding firefighters mentioned siding, and that the sprinklers weren't working.

If you're interested, read this Wikipedia article on what happened, and how: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire. The failures that led to this are unimaginable, and had it not happened in real life but portrayed as such in the movies, I'd never have believed it possible in a first-world country in 2017.

Oh, I know that it does happen, and that the scenario was based on real life. My point was primarily (though I didn't not write it well) was that the blame wasn't all on Bobby, and perhaps even the greater share went to the building owners and builders. 

[juliet73]

Someone please explain to me this Buck attraction. If I was in a stressful situation (looking for my missing mother with dementia) and some young manwhore starting asking me about my sex life, I would probably punch him in the throat. After Abby's mom is home and put to bed, didn't Buck say something to Abby like "that's the longest I've ever been around a woman that I didn't want to have sex with." Did I hear him correctly? 1. it was less than 30 seconds he was with her mom and 2. She's like 75 and has dementia! 3. Buck is a total creep! 

I agree with the other posts about the Bobby/fire situation being too over the top! The CO poisoning would have been way better or maybe a faulty wire that he was going to fix, but spent his free time drinking instead, etc. Or someone else started the fire by accident and he just suffers from major survivor's guilt. There is no way he would be working for the dept that's for sure!

I like Hen, but I don't care about her scumbag ex. Hardly any Athena tonight. And Bobby mentioned Chimney coming back...I guess if they allow a firefighter who shows up to work drunk and also burns down an apt building killing 150 people, a guy with rebar through the brain would be no problem.

Edited February 4, 2018 by juliet73

[NJRadioGuy]

I think the writers got a rebar through the brain. It would explain much.

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, juliet73 said:

I agree with the other posts about the Bobby/fire situation being too over the top! The CO poisoning would have been way better or maybe a faulty wire that he was going to fix, but spent his free time drinking instead, etc. Or someone else started the fire by accident and he just suffers from major survivor's guilt. There is no way he would be working for the dept that's for sure!

 

When they began the shot with Bobby drinking in his car, and it was all snowy and icy, I thought "Oh, he's going to kill his family in a car accident - a drunk driver." I was, of course wrong. Which is usual when I'm guessing.

But I think I was right about something else. Remember that book he wrote names in during the airplane episode? It had enough room for 150 or so names. I'd speculated that each life he saved was written down as an amend to a life he'd hadn't been able to save while drunk. I hadn't anticipated that he triggered the events that killed them, though. Because it's so rare for me, I quoted myself below:

Quote

My guess, given the rookie's comment that there was room for some specific number of names (148? 175?), is that the list is for the people he needs to save to make amends for those he couldn't/didn't save when he was drunk on the job.  He's trying to balance the books, as it were.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Clanstarling

[Ailianna]

10 hours ago, juliet73 said:

Someone please explain to me this Buck attraction. If I was in a stressful situation (looking for my missing mother with dementia) and some young manwhore starting asking me about my sex life, I would probably punch him in the throat. After Abby's mom is home and put to bed, didn't Buck say something to Abby like "that's the longest I've ever been around a woman that I didn't want to have sex with." Did I hear him correctly? 1. it was less than 30 seconds he was with her mom and 2. She's like 75 and has dementia! 3. Buck is a total creep! 

You did mishear.  He was referring to Abby, and he said that it was the longest time he had spent with a woman he *wanted* to have sex with, without actually having sex with her.  Abby then turned it into a joke about her mom, probably from nerves.  I'm not saying it was a brilliant thing to say, but not as horrible as what you thought you heard.

[juliet73]

2 hours ago, Ailianna said:

You did mishear.  He was referring to Abby, and he said that it was the longest time he had spent with a woman he *wanted* to have sex with, without actually having sex with her.  Abby then turned it into a joke about her mom, probably from nerves.  I'm not saying it was a brilliant thing to say, but not as horrible as what you thought you heard.

Thank you...that sounds better, but it was still a totally inappropriate thing to say IMO.

This show would be way better without him!

[Clanstarling]

8 minutes ago, juliet73 said:

Thank you...that sounds better, but it was still a totally inappropriate thing to say IMO.

This show would be way better without him!

Agreed. He's not doing much for me, and I can't imagine being charmed by him - no matter how stressful my life.

[bilgistic]

The show producers need to read this forum to see that no one likes Buck.

[Chaos Theory]

2 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

The show producers need to read this forum to see that no one likes Buck.

I like Buck,  I think the show just needs to tone down his horn dog ness.   I think Buck and Abby have interesting chemistry that the show needs to explore.

[Kemper]

Count me on the Buck dislike train, too.  He is pasty and not-all-that.  It wouldn't be so bad if they would just let his character "be" and not constantly push him.  I think that it is great that they are giving Abby a love interest; and a younger one is ok.  I just wish the "younger" was attractive or quirky.  I am interested in seeing how things play out with her mother and all the issues her illness involves.

I really want to like this show; I keep tuning in for Angela Bassett and Peter Krause...and Abby, of course.  The writing is just so awful; maybe it will settle down as time goes on.

[jhlipton]

On 2/4/2018 at 6:55 AM, Clanstarling said:

Remember that book he wrote names in during the airplane episode? It had enough room for 150 or so names. I'd speculated that each life he saved was written down as an amend to a life he'd hadn't been able to save while drunk. I hadn't anticipated that he triggered the events that killed them, though.

So once he saves 150 people, he'll stop being a fireman?  Does he have to personally save them or is it enough for his crew to? 

Maybe he and 10K on Z Nation can team up.

[iMonrey]

Quote

Someone please explain to me this Buck attraction. If I was in a stressful situation (looking for my missing mother with dementia) and some young manwhore starting asking me about my sex life, I would probably punch him in the throat. After Abby's mom is home and put to bed, didn't Buck say something to Abby like "that's the longest I've ever been around a woman that I didn't want to have sex with." Did I hear him correctly? 1. it was less than 30 seconds he was with her mom and 2. She's like 75 and has dementia! 3. Buck is a total creep!

Nothing about these scenes read right. This could have been an interesting way for Buck and Abby to meet in person for the first time but the search for Abby's mother sort of got sidelined and lost momentum because the writers were more interested in teasing a potential hookup between these two characters than in Abby's focus on finding her mother. It was a bad look for her. She and the care giver should have been out pounding the pavement the second they realized her mother was missing, not sitting around the apartment waiting for Buck to show up. WTF?

And nobody knows better than a fire fighter how many fires are started by space heaters. I get that Bobby was drunk but it would have been far more likely for him to have passed out and died in a fire than for him to get up and walk out leaving behind a running space heater. 

[Clanstarling]

4 hours ago, jhlipton said:

So once he saves 150 people, he'll stop being a fireman?  Does he have to personally save them or is it enough for his crew to? 

Maybe he and 10K on Z Nation can team up.

I think only those he saves personally, or maybe even only those he almost dies saving, or his book would have more entries. I don't know what happens after he gets to the goals, I just think he's doing amends of some sort.

[NJRadioGuy]

On 2/4/2018 at 2:10 PM, bilgistic said:

The show producers need to read this forum to see that no one likes Buck.

Just like the Chicago Fire producers need to see that nobody likes Dawson. Hey, maybe there could be a 2-for-1 swap between LA and Chicago. 9-1-1 gets Saint Gabby, Buck goes to 51 in Chicago.

[Lyanna19]

@milner everything you said.

That's just weird, Buck asking Abby about sex after just having met her. And the phone sex? Please, is this porn? It certainly almost seems like it, please let's leave the bedroom issues in the dark, most of us would just rather not know. That was actually creepy.

Don't you dare @NJRadioGuy as annoying Gabby is, I still like Chicago Fire, bringing Buck over, would kill it for me, so no thank-you,

I also have to agree with the unrealistic view of only three/four firemen, c'mon! 

I was gonna argue with Bobby about him saying he murdered his family, but now I'm like: "GUILTY!!" How can he live with himself, knowing he is not called to question his involvement in the killing of 150 ppl? Something is off here, the writers need to rethink their drama.

In one word the Abby and Buck relationship: Awkward!

Edited February 6, 2018 by Lyanna19
Spelling correction

[Lady Calypso]

On 05/02/2018 at 12:58 PM, iMonrey said:

Nothing about these scenes read right. This could have been an interesting way for Buck and Abby to meet in person for the first time but the search for Abby's mother sort of got sidelined and lost momentum because the writers were more interested in teasing a potential hookup between these two characters than in Abby's focus on finding her mother. It was a bad look for her. She and the care giver should have been out pounding the pavement the second they realized her mother was missing, not sitting around the apartment waiting for Buck to show up. WTF?

Exactly. They have Abby acting (and now dressing) younger, which doesn't endear me to her at all. It's like the show forgot what Abby was doing halfway through the episode and steered toward an Abby/Buck romance subplot as they rescued the girl from the pool. I'm not even sure why they have Abby acting like she in her late teens, and now dressing like she's even younger than that. The glasses also don't help. It's like Abby is having her own midlife crisis, especially with her head over heels for a guy in his twenties. It's not a bad thing for her to be interested in a younger guy, but couple with the appearance and the teen girl personality, and I find it jarring. 

That being said, I didn't hate the Buck/Abby scenes. They have an easy going chemistry...more as friends, mind you, not romantic. And I still don't like Buck in the end. But now I don't like Abby either. 

I also have no idea what they were thinking with Bobby's storyline. Accidentally killing his family is one thing. Also accidentally killing 150 people is an entirely different story. Dude should not be a firefighter, let alone the chief (or whatever he is). He should be in jail. His story does not make me like him.

This whole show is a mess. I'm really struggling to continue with it. I can't name one character I genuinely like.

[candall]

No, Bobby, no.  Bad advice.  Do NOT be all "sharing" with your co-workers how you were responsible for 150 deaths.  Yikes.

Especially since Bobby's the boss, that story would eventually get around to anyone who ever worked in that fire station for the rest of time--assuming they ever hire a fifth person--and not everyone is going to love him enough to be all warm and fuzzy and protective of him.  I can't even grasp what a bad idea it would be in real life to hand over that story to your work colleagues.  Those are your only friends, you say?  Get a dog.  Whisper your secrets into his fur.

 

For being such a bad-ass, Athena was all kinds of stupid with the rich girl situation.

 

When did Connie Britton get vocal fry?  It's making me a little bit crazy.

 

But I still like the show!

[Ohwell]

If Bobby really wanted to atone for his mistake, then he should have admitted his role in the fire to the police.  Instead, he's a mopey, drunk and self-pitying ass and I can't stand him.  

[vibeology]

20 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I also have no idea what they were thinking with Bobby's storyline. Accidentally killing his family is one thing. Also accidentally killing 150 people is an entirely different story. Dude should not be a firefighter, let alone the chief (or whatever he is). He should be in jail. His story does not make me like him.

They just did way too much with this plot. As if was setting up, I figured he would have been out drinking when the fire started and he'd blame himself for not being home and not getting his family out. That would be real and human but forgivable. But when he went into his secret drinking apartment and started up multiple sources of a potential fire, it was too much! I don't know if you go to jail for accidentally starting a fire, but you sure don't become a chief or whatever the fuck Bobby is. If I was his coworker, I couldn't look at him the same.

[mostlylurking]

I liked the Abby and Buck scenes.  I think Abby's outfit was a total disaster but I don't think she was dressing too young, I think she just looked a mess because she was focused on worrying about her mom.  It doesn't seem she gives much thought to her appearance period.  If Buck still wanted to sleep with her in those overalls, he much really like her.  I thought it was funny how proud he was about spending the entire day with her and her mom and not sleeping with either of them.  Heh.

On 2/3/2018 at 10:03 PM, NJRadioGuy said:

Pretty sure the guy was dead, but yeah, that reaction was a bit odd.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he had to be dead but it was unsettling that he was just floating there.

I didn't like Bobby's backstory.  I agree if they were going to go this route they should have made it an accidental house fire.  He's responsible for killing all those people and the super never ratted him out because he didn't want to cause trouble??  Makes no sense.  Never mind having a propane heater in an apartment and then leaving it on??  Weird writing choice.

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, vibeology said:

I don't know if you go to jail for accidentally starting a fire, but you sure don't become a chief or whatever the fuck Bobby is. If I was his coworker, I couldn't look at him the same.

You can't go to jail for accidentally starting a fire, but since the fire he started directly killed 150 people, he could go to jail for manslaughter.