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S04.E13: The Home

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When Jane Fonda spoiled on a talk show that Grace and Frankie end up in a home, I almost didn't watch this season because I thought it would be too depressing. But honestly, I loved it. I binged a little too fast, so now I need to watch again, but overall I thought it was hilarious and poignant. The fact that they are ill-treated by their families just makes me root for them that much more.

Nick buying the house seems likely after the way the writers dispensed with Frankie's move to Phoenix. It seems like they want to shake things up but then hit the reset button as quickly as possible, a la The Simpsons. That's fine--I do want to see their triumphant return to the beach house, like the end of "The Coup" times eleven. However, rather than Nick saving them, I would prefer that they get their own house back like they got back Sheree's for her.

The most important thing is that we get a Season 5! This was not a good series finale. So everyone tweet @netflix a million times to give the "go ahead" for Season 5 ASAP!

Edited by Sesquipedalia
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10 hours ago, Sesquipedalia said:

Nick buying the house seems likely after the way the writers dispensed with Frankie's move to Phoenix. It seems like they want to shake things up but then hit the reset button as quickly as possible, a la The Simpsons. That's fine--I do want to see their triumphant return to the beach house, like the end of "The Coup" times eleven. However, rather than Nick saving them, I would prefer that they get their own house back like they got back Sheree's for her.

I too thought that probably Nick bought it but I love your idea that Sheree bought it.

I thought that the house was in Grace's name.  How could the kids sell it?  If they did sell it they should be on punishment for a loooong time.

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24 minutes ago, jumper sage said:

I thought that the house was in Grace's name.  How could the kids sell it?  If they did sell it they should be on punishment for a loooong time.

Was it?  I honestly can't remember and had been wondering.  The way I *think* I remember it was that the two families owned the home together, but the wives got it after the split, so both Grace and Frankie would have owned it.  I could be wrong, though.

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Yes, Grace and Frankie got it in the divorce (that's how they got stuck together to begin with, and it's why Grace wanted Frankie to come home and add her signature to Sheree's lease), after it had originally belonged to all four of them.

It sounded like the kids were just handling the sale of it, since Grace and Frankie were off at the home; I can't imagine any scenario in which Grace and Frankie signed title over to them.

I'm afraid that Nick will turn out to be the buyer, which is better than a random person, certainly, as Grace and Frankie can just buy it back from him (they certainly don't need to be renting from him!), but I'd like it a lot better if it was Sheree, helping them get their house back just like they'd helped her get hers, instead of some damn white knight scenario, especially with a man who has already been a problematic character.  But I don't think Sheree has that kind of money.

I want to re-watch this episode.  I was spoiled via another thread that they wound up in a home, and it sounded awful, so I was kind of dreading this episode, but I wound up liking it.  It was filled to the brim with fantastic dialogue, and I love that how they wound up in what sounded like a completely implausible scenario is that they each went for the other (even though I don't believe the kids would have been successful in convincing Grace that Frankie being Frankie suddenly meant she couldn't take care of herself with Grace helping, or convincing Frankie that Grace being temporarily hobbled meant the same).

Mallory having eleventy kids and Coyote living in a shoe meaning they're punishing themselves was entertaining, too, and I can't wait to see what they do to Brianna and Bud for this little stunt.  And I like that the kids weren't doing this to get them out of their hair, get their hands on money, or any of the typical stories; they were over-reacting, dismissive, manipulative in telling Frankie it was for Grace and Grace it was for Frankie, and ultimately out of line (so they very much need another mic drop scene in which they get told about themselves), but they'd genuinely gotten themselves worked up to believe that stupid checklist was right. 

Edited by Bastet
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35 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Was it?  I honestly can't remember and had been wondering.  The way I *think* I remember it was that the two families owned the home together, but the wives got it after the split, so both Grace and Frankie would have owned it.  I could be wrong, though.

You are probably right.  I thought Grace got the beach house and Frankie got the Yurt and house since her husband moved in with Grace's husband.  They did all own the beach house.

I am going to watch the first season again.

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Okay, I feel better now.

When first I perused this thread, and saw how everybody just LOVED this episode, I got even more depressed. But seeing as I'm not the only one outraged and angry at the mishandling of The Titular characters? I feel vindicated.

Geeze Louise it's season TWO all over again!!!

Them treating the men as teenagers and the women as alzheimer's patients. It's insulting. Truthfully, I'm as angry at this episode as I was at that shitty ending to How I Met Your  Mother! And I'm gonna have to do what I did then as well...take a step back from this show all together for awhile - which probably means no re-watching for me - until I can deal with it.

This was just plain bad writing. Didn't we already go down the Frankie-Can't-drive-because-she's-OLD street when she got her license renewed? Didn't it turn out that she wasn't senile? Alla sudden Bud births a kid and momma's SENILE and a danger to his KID? That's bull-loney and we all know it. She had a damn FLIP phone, and neither one of her oh-so-smart sons thought to put a stupid GPS in her car! Or better yet, or BETTER YETTTTTTT why the EFFF didn't BUD PUT MOM ON HIS PLAN???? SHE AIN'T GOT NO PHONE NO MORE CAUSE SHE's FREAKING LEGALLY DEAD!!!! PUT HER ON YOUR PLAN YOU A-HOLE!!!!

 

*breathe honeygirl....breathe*

 

And I'm not even going there with the gay husbands. Boring as boring can get. They did NOT have sex with that guy. They're too conservative and too in love with EACH OTHER to EVER go there. But the WOMEN....

SO MANY MULTIPLE SHITTY PLOT HOLES. I. HATE. THIS. EPISODE. SO MUCH!!!!!

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I was reflecting on how much Grace has mellowed since season 1. She's relaxed (just keep her supplied with booze). She wears jeans. She casually takes all of Frankie's idiosyncrasies in stride. She was having a blast with Sheree.

I enjoy the way she and Frankie take fond jabs at each other's habits these days; their real love comes through.

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3 hours ago, Bastet said:

I want to re-watch this episode.  I was spoiled via another thread that they wound up in a home, and it sounded awful, so I was kind of dreading this episode, but I wound up liking it.  It was filled to the brim with fantastic dialogue, and I love that how they wound up in what sounded like a completely implausible scenario is that they each went for the other (even though I don't believe the kids would have been successful in convincing Grace that Frankie being Frankie suddenly meant she couldn't take care of herself with Grace helping, or convincing Frankie that Grace being temporarily hobbled meant the same).

I am sorry if I'm the one who spoiled it. I posted about it, but now that post has disappeared, so I'm worried I might have put it in the wrong thread by accident. It was intended for the all episodes thread when that was open.

I agree the Gift of the Magi star-crossed scenario is a bit far-fetched. Grace and Frankie know each other too well to fall for the other's children's manipulations. 

 

1 hour ago, hnygrl said:

But seeing as I'm not the only one outraged and angry at the mishandling of The Titular characters?

I'm just as outraged as you at the children's behavior, especially after Grace's plea about how much the beach house means to her and Frankie. They should have done everything in their power to keep their mothers in that house.

I'm not as angry at the writers as I thought I would be because I feel like the story was told primarily from Grace and Frankie's perspectives, so we're meant to be outraged by how they were dismissed and infantilized. The writers are clearly setting up G&F for a comeback/ revenge story line, as long as there's another season.

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I'm not as angry at the writers as I thought I would be because I feel like the story was told primarily from Grace and Frankie's perspectives, so we're meant to be outraged by how they were dismissed and infantilized. The writers are clearly setting up G&F for a comeback/ revenge story line, as long as there's another season.

I feel like there has to be another season.  I don't think the writers would have ended it the way they did if there was real concern they would be cancelled.  I was outraged on behalf of Grace and Frankie.  Those kids should think long and hard about how they treated their mothers, and recognize that kind of behavior is going to come back and bite them hard.   

I feel like it's a tv trope where people walk in on other people posed nude in their home for their sexual pleasure.  I think if a houseguest actually did that to me in a situation where I had not made clear sex was on the table, I would immediately ask them what the hell they were thinking, and then to leave the house.   

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I'm so glad for this forum! I have a lot of the same issues with this season. I hate how much they're infantilizing G&F, and R&S just get to have perfect health and no other problems associated with aging. I can appreciate the show wants to portray some relatable problems with aging, but I also want my heroes to kick some ass.

Also, was anyone expecting Grace to help Brianna by paying back Brianna's loan to Vybrant? Maybe Vybrant and Say Grace should merge.

 

Also also, I'm glad I'm not the only one driven around the bend by Frankie's antics. I love her in many ways, but it makes me nuts that she's so impulsive and rarely has to deal with the consequences of her actions. She just cries or throws a tantrum until whoever she wronged gives up.

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4 hours ago, Sesquipedalia said:

I'm not as angry at the writers as I thought I would be because I feel like the story was told primarily from Grace and Frankie's perspectives, so we're meant to be outraged by how they were dismissed and infantilized. The writers are clearly setting up G&F for a comeback/ revenge story line, as long as there's another season.

Yes, that's why I didn't dislike it the way I thought I was going to based on the spoiler (and I have no idea if it was you; don't worry about it if it was - it was an innocent mistake, whoever it was).  I don't like the juxtaposition between Grace and Frankie dealing with the consequences of their age while Robert and Sol - who are even a bit older, no? - are not (at least on anywhere near the same level), and are in fact being offered a threesome with some younger guy who for absolutely no reason that I can fathom wants to get with the two of them, but taken on its own I like the women's storyline as this season progressed.  Even their non-malicious kids overreacted and dismissed their clear and reasonable wishes in favor of what some random online checklist said of the situation.  That's good stuff to explore, and I can't wait to see their revenge now that they've busted out and returned home.

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4 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yes, that's why I didn't dislike it the way I thought I was going to based on the spoiler (and I have no idea if it was you; don't worry about it if it was - it was an innocent mistake, whoever it was).  I don't like the juxtaposition between Grace and Frankie dealing with the consequences of their age while Robert and Sol - who are even a bit older, no? - are not (at least on anywhere near the same level), and are in fact being offered a threesome with some younger guy who for absolutely no reason that I can fathom wants to get with the two of them, but taken on its own I like the women's storyline as this season progressed.  Even their non-malicious kids overreacted and dismissed their clear and reasonable wishes in favor of what some random online checklist said of the situation.  That's good stuff to explore, and I can't wait to see their revenge now that they've busted out and returned home.

I know and the lame "Is that your aide" at the wake/funeral by someone who was jealous. Peter Gallagher is 62, she's 70. why was there this whole thing about hiding him and "lay low" ? He isn't 35.  Granted Sam Elliot was 73 but the disparity wasn't that wide.

I hope if or when there is season 5 (they have to get their home back) they don't have cartoonist characters again but mature discussions about what they might need to help them put in their home and a touch of humor.

There are women their age that need help, have medical issues, but many don't. I see doctor's lawyers, some in my office, working in their upper 60's and 70's even if part time. My old neighbor Lena who lived alone until she fell ill in her late 80's next door taking care of her garden and cats. She had necklace for medical help and updated large phone. Don't make ex husband's having no issues other than sleeping with the stud and argue who is flirting more and the ladies are feeble. Really find this disturbing.

Please give us a quality and what will probably be last season.  The Golden Girls started the idea older women were still vital, let it continue with Grace and Frankie.

Edited by debraran
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The couple I think had the least romantic chemistry this season was Grace and Nick. I have no idea why he pursued Grace so strenuously.

She challenged him in a work environment last season and he was intrigued by that, but for him to throw himself at her was quite unrealistic to me. Not on the face of it or because of the age difference, but because I just never saw any natural attraction between them. Seems like Grace appreciates some male attention but just kind of tolerates him compared to how emotionally close and open she was with Phil.

Supposedly Nick was "overseas" for a couple of months but Grace apparently never even bothered to tell him what was happening in her life. Did they ever talk, text, Skype? Bah. He just seems like a plot device for Grace to think/worry about her age some more.

Regarding aging, it is interesting to see the differences between Grace and Frankie -- one woman who never wore much makeup or put a great deal of thought into her appearance vs one whose sense of self worth was largely based on how attractive and put together she was.

Edited by 2727
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Actually, Jane Fonda is 80.  She's quite a bit older than Peter Gallagher.  I think she's playing younger, though, and she does look great.

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On 24/01/2018 at 4:09 AM, ally862 said:

So I just started working at an assisted living community in November so I was cracking up at this episode. Especially when the people who work at the community we're coming to check on Grace and Frankie they were pretty spot-on. 

Really???? I always assumed that people in such a community would have their own private homes with the added benefit of nurses on call, on site community facilities with optional activities like games nights/dances/classes/etc and nice secure gardens to enjoy. While the community aspect would keep you safer as you were less of a target for burglars and con artists and mean you had no worries about suddenly having a bunch of noisy students or worse move in nextdoor. Having staff onsite that get in your face and infantalise you like that would be unbearable. I have an only child so have always been open to moving into that type of facility when I'm older in order to ensure he doesn't have an excessive burden placed on him. But if that's the reality of assisted living, I'm pinning my hopes on care robots.

I felt Bud was needlessly cruel in telling Frankie she couldn't babysit Faith. Even if he and Allison made that decision there is no need to actually tell her that. I rarely have my parents babysit my son (not because they can't, I just don't need them to) but we all spend time together on a regular basis. All Bud and Allison would have had to do was spend time with Frankie and brush off offers to babysit by telling her they don't need it and enjoy their time with her themselves.

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So I just started working at an assisted living community in November so I was cracking up at this episode. Especially when the people who work at the community we're coming to check on Grace and Frankie they were pretty spot-on. 

That's interesting.  My experience with that level of care is that the staff mostly leaves you alone unless you need something.  I also call bs on the idea the staff is just going to go into your apartment and take something without telling you they've taken it.   

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On 1/24/2018 at 4:31 PM, Bastet said:

Yes, Grace and Frankie got it in the divorce (that's how they got stuck together to begin with, and it's why Grace wanted Frankie to come home and add her signature to Sheree's lease), after it had originally belonged to all four of them.

You little smarty pants.  Here I am going through all the old seasons and it was right there.

 

7 hours ago, AllyB said:

Really???? I always assumed that people in such a community would have their own private homes with the added benefit of nurses on call, on site community facilities with optional activities like games nights/dances/classes/etc and nice secure gardens to enjoy. While the community aspect would keep you safer as you were less of a target for burglars and con artists and mean you had no worries about suddenly having a bunch of noisy students or worse move in nextdoor. Having staff onsite that get in your face and infantalise you like that would be unbearable. I have an only child so have always been open to moving into that type of facility when I'm older in order to ensure he doesn't have an excessive burden placed on him. But if that's the reality of assisted living, I'm pinning my hopes on care robots.

I felt Bud was needlessly cruel in telling Frankie she couldn't babysit Faith. Even if he and Allison made that decision there is no need to actually tell her that. I rarely have my parents babysit my son (not because they can't, I just don't need them to) but we all spend time together on a regular basis. All Bud and Allison would have had to do was spend time with Frankie and brush off offers to babysit by telling her they don't need it and enjoy their time with her themselves.

Part 1 - I think that they are in an assisted living not a retirement community.  Their friend "thinks" she is in a retirement community but not so.

Part 2 - I agree is was cruel to tell her that.

I don't like that the kids just jumped to putting them in a home.  How about trying to hire a maid or something first?  They obviously can afford one.

On 1/25/2018 at 11:46 AM, 2727 said:

Regarding aging, it is interesting to see the differences between Grace and Frankie -- one woman who never wore much makeup or put a great deal of thought into her appearance vs one whose sense of self worth was largely based on how attractive and put together she was.

I'm telling you pot keeps you young and alcohol ages you.

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On 1/24/2018 at 6:03 PM, hnygrl said:

Them treating the men as teenagers and the women as alzheimer's patients.

OK, now I too am pissed.  Great point.

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One of the things that might have been an obvious suggestion was simply moving house. The kids kept saying 'all the way out here' when they talked about where Grace and Frankie live. So I presume that they live a much further drive away from all of the others because why would you buy a beach house for your (shared) personal use if you lived just a short drive from the beach. So why not suggest that Grace and Frankie consider moving to a property nearer their kids. Yes it would suck because the beach house means so much to them both but if there are genuine concerns about how long it would take medical help to reach them at the beach house, then a move to somewhere more urban would make sense. Especially when Frankie has a restricted driving license. 

It would also have made sense for them to consider home help at least until Grace's knees both healed up. Someone who could check in on them and do light housework, take care of the basic DIY and make sure any serious jobs are looked at early on. Moving them into a home where fondue is a no-no was ridiculous.

Oh, and I've seen lots of mentions about Coyote being unemployed. I'm pretty sure he's actually a teacher.

Edited by AllyB
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I just re-watched this, because the first time I was struck by how much great dialogue there was packed into one episode - even for this show - but I was paying attention to the plot.

My favorite: "Have you forgotten what this house means to us?  This is where we put our lives back together after your dumb, gay dads ruined it all."

I didn't notice the first time that the kids downloaded that checklist the night before their "intervention."  That, plus the fact almost everything that applied to Grace and Frankie was a temporary condition, was annoying, but the women treated it with exactly the respect it deserved - by flipping them off (and, in Frankie's case, smacking her kids).  It's so maddening the kids then manipulated them, by having Frankie's kids tell Grace they knew she could take care of herself, but Frankie can't, and vice versa, but I continue to like the difference from the usual storyline that the kids are idiotic, but not malicious, in their motivation.  Usually when we see something like this, it's because some cold-hearted adult child wants to get his hands on the parent's money.

I can't wait to see their punishment, however.

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Both women are executive producers on the show, and I find it a little hard to believe that either one would have been OK with the sexist treatment just as is. If Jane Fonda was actually recovering from knee surgery, and they needed to write it into the show, I can see where Grace needing help and Frankie's usual ditziness gave them the idea of the home. They got to show the women bonding by agreeing to go to the facility together. It also gave them a chance to show them as empowered despite their issues by showing how they really don't belong in such a place. As far as the kids, they are all reactive, and, they haven't had to deal with anything similar before. The first thought is: we don't know what to do, so put them somewhere safe. Perhaps down the line they'll have in-home help, but, also, it's a comedy. They heighten and exaggerate by nature. It's not going to be a realistic drama where all the logical behaviors and solutions apply. Plus, they gave them the physical comedy focus of the escape, which there wouldn't have been any need for without the extreme scenario.  

I will say, though, that while Bud's fear was understandable (especially since Frankie is at risk for a stroke), he was unnecessarily harsh in his decision. That was a little too heavy on the drama side. I'd be willing to bet that there will be some compromise coming. 

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On 1/21/2018 at 5:04 PM, Maysie said:

Honestly, I quit watching Sol and Robert by episode four. I fast forwarded through all their scenes because they're dull, I don't care and I can't stand Sol. He's just too precious.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who thinks Sol is "just too precious". And as I posted in another episode thread, Martin Sheen is one of my favorite actors of all time; however, he is just not convincing as a gay man. I'm not quite sure why - he's just not IMO. And BORING - the both of them and even more so when they're together.

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On 1/22/2018 at 2:03 PM, Lilacly said:

They went to court to get power of attorney which allows anyone to make legal/financial/medical decisions on behalf of someone else when sign off that they can't anymore

I didn't catch that the kids got POA for them. I thought they just guilted each of them individually into thinking they needed to do it for the other one. (Grace's kids guilting out Frankie and Frankie's kids guilting out Grace). So I think their love for each other made it much easier to sell the house - probably with their permission due to feeling they had to do it for the other one.

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I relate to every scene in this series.  I'm 71, hubby is 76.  He's had a heart attack; I've had a knee replacement.  We are still independent, but have spoken with the kids about the changes we see in ourselves.  We're still at the joking stage.  Daughter says, "At some point, we're probably going to have to take your car keys."  Me (to hubby):  "Do we remember where we've hidden the extra set of keys?"

In all seriousness, though, I understand where Bud is coming from in not allowing Frankie to drive around - or even be alone in the house - with Faith.  Once you've had a TIA, it is fairly common that it can happen again.  A grandparent should still be welcome to spend time with their grandchildren, but not to potentially endanger them.  If Frankie loves Faith, she should be willing to accept a compromise.  And Bud did say she was welcome to spend time with the baby . . . just not to be the sole adult in the house.

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While I can somehow understand Bud freaking out about what happened  it's hard to forget that only weeks ago he was okay with Frankie actually delivering his baby (which I thought way more crazy) and called her again when he hit baby-parenting rock-bottom AND he was the one suggesting Frankie should drive around with Faith all day. What happened is as much on him as it is on Frankie. And the way he spoke to Frankie was completely out of line. Show some respect and kindness to your mother or one day Faith will kick you to the nursing home ASAP when you start forgetting things.

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I agree with so many of the great points made about this episode.....the rush to 'assisted living' - of all the stupid things.  They were not in need of an assisted living facility, at least as I am familiar with them.

They might have been happy in a senior community with progression as health needs demand and there are very many of those in my area, some quit luxurious.

I am right in the age group looking at decisions like this and I really appreciated the issue(s) being addressed HOWEVER...........................

I felt the writing and the entire plot structure of the season was rushed and disjointed.   This diluted the impact of the story lines they were trying to tell and made the season VERY frustrating.

The entire Nick plot hinges on the fact that we buy that there is a 'huge' age difference.  Because Jane has had a lot of work and is in good health and naturally thin (probably), when we look at the  actors there is no discernable age difference.   So the story line feels faintly ridiculous and not terribly serious.

While I loved the "escape" and the walk along the beach, the set up wasn't realistic (even in TV terms) and so the emotion of the end of this episode was diluted by the unreality of the entire setup.

I didn't realize that a season 5 was in doubt, so I really hope that they get down to business and start looking at all the characters as real people and start plotting and writing for that sensibility.

They have terrific actors who can do just about anything, so give them some reasonable material to deal with.

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Let me join the chorus of those who felt everyone acted out of character at the end. I can't shake the suspicion that Brianna went along with this plan because she tanked her mother's company and wants to discredit Grace's criticism of her business acumen by putting her in a home. And that really makes me dislike the character. Bud came across as equally unlikable the way he over-reacted to Frankie getting lost. He's the one who suggested she drive around with Faith for an hour or so - he should know damn well how his mother drives. That was totally on him.

I also don't buy either Grace or Frankie going along with it, or being fooled into thinking the other needed it. Frankie knows Grace is of sound mind and Grace knows Frankie is Frankie. She isn't any more or less Frankie than she ever was. Nobody knows them better than each other. 

So at the end of the day, the writing just wasn't there. Someone came up with a situation they thought they could milk for laughs and/or pathos but didn't put the work into getting the characters there in a realistic, organic way. 

I'm also struck by how differently Robert and Sol are written versus their ex-wives. Granted, they don't have bathtubs falling through their ceilings and aren't drunk driving motorized shopping carts into police cars, but why are the female characters being utilized for all the aging stories and the men are being given relationship stories that might as easily be applied to 20-somethings? The disparity is aggravating and bizarre.

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The one thing that really pissed me off about Brianna: BLAMING HER MOTHER for HER lack of business acumen! The Hell???

Sweetie? If mommy's products aren't selling? And you're too stupid to repackage, repurpose, etc? The GET RID OF THE PRODUCTS AND START OVER. You know, like your COMPETITION DID?? Or better yet, she should've joined forces with the competition when the woman WANTED TO.

She's a horrible businesswoman and blames not only her mother who gave her the company free and clear, but the product line her mother was selling. It's YOUR COMPANY NOW. If the Say Grace stuff ain't sellin' you're well within your rights to get rid of it.

Overall, I didn't really LIKE this season that much....they'd better clean it up before they end this series...I want Grace AND Frankie re-married and happy as payment for this crap-tastic season. (there. I said it. the season sucked)

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On 1/29/2018 at 7:34 PM, hnygrl said:

The one thing that really pissed me off about Brianna: BLAMING HER MOTHER for HER lack of business acumen! The Hell???

Sweetie? If mommy's products aren't selling? And you're too stupid to repackage, repurpose, etc? The GET RID OF THE PRODUCTS AND START OVER. You know, like your COMPETITION DID?? Or better yet, she should've joined forces with the competition when the woman WANTED TO.

She's a horrible businesswoman and blames not only her mother who gave her the company free and clear, but the product line her mother was selling. It's YOUR COMPANY NOW. If the Say Grace stuff ain't sellin' you're well within your rights to get rid of it.

Overall, I didn't really LIKE this season that much....they'd better clean it up before they end this series...I want Grace AND Frankie re-married and happy as payment for this crap-tastic season. (there. I said it. the season sucked)

THANK YOU!

This pissed me off so much and I typically like Brianna. This wouldn't have happened if Grace were still in charge of that company. End of story. Grace would have been way on top of the numbers the second they started to slip. She would have tried new marketing techniques. She would have rebranded. She would have looked for untapped markets. She wouldn't have rushed a new product before it was ready.

How do I know this? Because Grace started a second successful company in her 70s for a product nobody thought could sell to the demographic. And she's out there doing pop ups and market research. With a close to zero budget to start with. She's putting in the work. By contrast Brianna was handed a successful company.

Brianna failed. It has nothing to do with Grace. If her products stopped being relevant that's on her. She lost touch with her market.

I agree with those who say everyone was out of character. It made me hate this episode.

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So why not suggest that Grace and Frankie consider moving to a property nearer their kids.

Because the kids don't want to do any of the work to take care of them. I know they tried to structure this to make them as sympathetic as possible. But, at the end of the day, these two women only need a little bit of help. And the kids aren't willing to be the ones to do it. So they manipulated them into being someone else's problem. 

Edited by CherithCutestory
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Because the kids don't want to do any of the work to take care of them. I know they tried to structure this to make them as sympathetic as possible. But, at the end of the day, these two women only need a little bit of help. And the kids aren't willing to be the ones to do it. So they manipulated them into being someone else's problem. 

This is actually something that bugs me.  There are a lot of steps one usually takes between an older parent needing help and going into an assisted living (or independent living) community.  For Grace and Frankie, it seems like having an aide to help Grace, until her knee issues were resolved, was the way to go.  I agree that the kids didn't really want to deal with the issue, and it was sad that they manipulated their mothers into doing something that clearly made both women unhappy.   

Though I presume that now that they stole that cart from the assisted living community, they will be asked to leave, so it will be interesting to see what comes next.       

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It's just such an enormous leap from "bad knee" and "got lost in car" to "can't have a stove or oven anymore." I don't know how the show expected us to believe Grace and Frankie would go right from point A to point Z as though they had suddenly aged 20 years in a day.

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I finished watching this a couple of weeks ago (I think I watched the season over 2-3 days), which has given me time to ponder the season and I realized why this one just didn't work for me.  It wasn't because of the rather downer ending--the prospect of a change in living situations is actually a realistic option for this show.  Instead, it just felt that the writers had really phoned it in this time.  Getting Grace and Frankie from independent business owners to living in assisted living just didn't make sense the way it was presented to us.  More times than I can count, the story directions either didn't make sense or just seemed lazy.  And don't even get me started on Robert and Sol.

I get that the whole concept of growing older and the challenges that entails is not exactly funny and so, for a comedy show, it can be tricky.  In previous seasons, I really felt like the writers had put in the effort, even if it didn't always work just right.  This season, it seemed like they just didn't care.

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8 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I finished watching this a couple of weeks ago (I think I watched the season over 2-3 days), which has given me time to ponder the season and I realized why this one just didn't work for me.  It wasn't because of the rather downer ending--the prospect of a change in living situations is actually a realistic option for this show.  Instead, it just felt that the writers had really phoned it in this time.  Getting Grace and Frankie from independent business owners to living in assisted living just didn't make sense the way it was presented to us.  More times than I can count, the story directions either didn't make sense or just seemed lazy.  And don't even get me started on Robert and Sol.

I get that the whole concept of growing older and the challenges that entails is not exactly funny and so, for a comedy show, it can be tricky.  In previous seasons, I really felt like the writers had put in the effort, even if it didn't always work just right.  This season, it seemed like they just didn't care.

I hope they hear that and if there is another season, they change it. There probably will be one more, I hope. One knee operation doesn't make Grace a permanent invalid, before that, her drinking was an issue but she was fine. Having to wear too much makeup etc to entertain, not a senior living check list. No nurse or aide was brought in? They could afford a good one.  Frankie had a bad situation but again one that many of us have had, much younger, getting lost, dead phone but giving her a car charger and a better phone, maybe putting her on their policy, was never addressed. There are realities to aging, but you don't treat your parents like idiots and "trick" them into going into a home.

I am also surprised that Jane and Lily okayed it. Maybe to have a "revenge is sweet" episode?

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5 hours ago, debraran said:

I am also surprised that Jane and Lily okayed it. Maybe to have a "revenge is sweet" episode?

My guess, or at least what I'm going with, is that what they saw on the page either didn't come across as it did on the screen or substantial editing actually changed the story.  While I think the writing--more specifically, the story crafting--was crap this year, the acting as still top notch, at least from the two leads.

I also wonder how much say they actually have.  I think it varies widely from show to show, but I also believe that Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin have the clout to make their objections known--if they had any.

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On ‎1‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 10:33 AM, Lilacly said:

There are plenty of straight people who swing or add a third when things start getting stale in their relationship. The therapist and the friend were saying though that Sol has little to no relationship experience outside of Robert and Frankie. Robert's been with other men before while Sol hasn't and Sol's never been a single gay man.  They suggested opening the relationship so Sol could see what it is like to gain some more prospective and experience. I found it funny that show never allows the idea of Sol being bisexual and attracted to both Robert and Frankie to be explore but they'd spend time explore open relationships and polyamory.

They play these characters as if they're so madly in love they can't stay in the relationships with their wives a minute longer, so when did it get stale for the guys? I know they've been 'together' for 20 or so years, but after just over one year they suddenly find each other 'stale'?  IF the relationship was worth fighting that hard for then it seems they both felt like it was pretty great.  I'm sure some hetero couples swing but I feel like they're in the minority.  I just thought it was a stretch, that's all.  

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On 2/1/2018 at 9:00 PM, stcroix said:

They play these characters as if they're so madly in love they can't stay in the relationships with their wives a minute longer, so when did it get stale for the guys? I know they've been 'together' for 20 or so years, but after just over one year they suddenly find each other 'stale'?  IF the relationship was worth fighting that hard for then it seems they both felt like it was pretty great.  I'm sure some hetero couples swing but I feel like they're in the minority.  I just thought it was a stretch, that's all.  

It's very typical in cheating or casual couples. They've been together for 20 years but in mostly stolen moments where there was the always the thrill  and fear of getting caught and where they had Grace and Frankie to bounce off of. They didn't have to live with each other and deal with the day to day stuff or any of the hard relationship stuff and could fantasize about what it would be like being together instead of having to deal with the reality.

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41 minutes ago, Lilacly said:

It's very typical in cheating or casual couples. They've been together for 20 years but in mostly stolen moments where there was the always the thrill  and fear of getting caught and where they had Grace and Frankie to bounce off of. They didn't have to live with each other and deal with the day to day stuff or any of the hard relationship stuff and could fantasize about what it would be like being together instead of having to deal with the reality.

They want excitement and have a young stud in their home, the girls, who are smart, vital, funny and sexual, they should be in a home?? lol  So sexist.

I know the stereotype of gay couples isn't appealing to some either. There's nothing wrong with having different interests, but the plays seem all consuming and I feel it's like any couple, both have to find same interests and friends to share others but they don't have to be sexual relationships.

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On 1/21/2018 at 10:26 AM, Lilacly said:

As implied at the party they planned, the kids got power of attorney which means they can make those kind of decisions for their parents. It often ends badly for the parent because the kids can micromanage their parents lives or just run off with the money and leave their parents penniless. There was one story I know of a pair of siblings living the high life and and leaving their father with not even $20 to go to a seniors event at his senior's centre.

 

On 1/21/2018 at 2:04 PM, Wicked said:

They'd better get that house back. I'm guessing Nick bought it for Grace.

 

On 1/21/2018 at 10:58 PM, stcroix said:

I agree the kids threw the ladies in assisted living MUCH too fast but I don't think it was just Grace having knee surgery that they were considering.  I think they thought she was starting on dementia with the way she (and Frankie) let the house get to the point that the bathtub fell through the ceiling and also that Grace didn't shop around for contractors but chose the first one (and because of a line he threw her).  My mom is in this same shape and still living alone and I'm at the point that I don't know  WHAT to do with or about her!  As an only child I'm stressing out majorly over being fair to her and yet not letting her accidently burn her apartment building down! My mom was always a strong woman, now she falls for anyone on the phone who's trying to sell her something.  Any contractor could con her with the 'friendly' approach.  The Grace of 2 seasons ago wouldn't have been conned by the contractor-- she'd have taken his number and had him checked out just to be sure.  All this to say that I can kind of understand why the kids jumped to the conclusion they did.  The thing I don't understand is why they didn't have Grace at a neurologist getting tests run to find out exactly what was going on mentally (if anything at all).  There are medications to be tried before the life changing decision to put someone in assisted living....  Heck, even a UTI can make your mind screwy! 

 

On 1/22/2018 at 11:10 AM, txhorns79 said:

I'll say that I know elderly people who are of sound mind and are active who still go to these places, not necessarily because they need them now, but anticipate needing them in the future.   Usually what they do is start in the independent living area of the building (like what Grace and Frankie's friend has) where there are panic buttons, but little else and they slowly age into the assisted living area, and finally skilled nursing.  

 

On 1/23/2018 at 2:38 PM, Pegasaurus said:

Wouldn't the court have to evaluate both G & F on their soundness of mind before the kids could get a POA  and then sell the beach house out from under them?  Also, the ex-husbands wouldn't have gotten involved, even in an advisory capacity?  I thought that weirdo, Sol, still cared about Frankie somewhat.  But they just portray R & S as such self-absorbed bores. 

And, anyway, those two actors have never been believable as a gay couple, IMO.  I like their house but don't give a crap about them.

It was  a distressing ending to the season.  Really hoping that Nick stepped up and bought the house.  

 

I am a hospice physician, so I deal with this quite a bit.  A PoA is only effective in the event the patient does not have the ability to make decisions for themselves.  That being said, there is a DPoA (Designated) and an MPoA (Medical).  A physician can determine a patient's capacity to make their own medical decisions and can use an MPoA if they determine the patient is unable to.  Only a judge can determine a patient's competency on whether or not the patient can make financial decisions and then financial decision making goes to a DPoA.  As Grace and Frankie are both of sound mind, the children in no way should be able to sell that house unless both were evaluated by a judge, as they are both co-owners.  That being said, I totally hope Nick bought it for Grace because he knows her well enough to know she will come out of her funk.  I wouldn't mind if Sheree bought it for them though.  
 

On 1/28/2018 at 10:30 AM, MissLucas said:

While I can somehow understand Bud freaking out about what happened  it's hard to forget that only weeks ago he was okay with Frankie actually delivering his baby (which I thought way more crazy) and called her again when he hit baby-parenting rock-bottom AND he was the one suggesting Frankie should drive around with Faith all day. What happened is as much on him as it is on Frankie. And the way he spoke to Frankie was completely out of line. Show some respect and kindness to your mother or one day Faith will kick you to the nursing home ASAP when you start forgetting things.

THIS!  She was okay to assist with a procedure that - while a natural process - can still result in a 200% mortality rate if something goes wrong, but she can't be alone with the baby?  
I didn't like Bud much before, but he is my least favorite character this season.  He and his wife.  I'll keep the baby because she is freakin' adorable.  
 

On 1/29/2018 at 3:00 PM, iMonrey said:

I also don't buy either Grace or Frankie going along with it, or being fooled into thinking the other needed it. Frankie knows Grace is of sound mind and Grace knows Frankie is Frankie. She isn't any more or less Frankie than she ever was. Nobody knows them better than each other. 

I'm also struck by how differently Robert and Sol are written versus their ex-wives. Granted, they don't have bathtubs falling through their ceilings and aren't drunk driving motorized shopping carts into police cars, but why are the female characters being utilized for all the aging stories and the men are being given relationship stories that might as easily be applied to 20-somethings? The disparity is aggravating and bizarre.


To address the first part, both of these women have had profound hits to their self esteem.  Not only did Grace find out that the love of her life (Phil) passed away, but she got scammed as well.  In addition, she is seeing the company she built tanking (through no fault of her own) and she is getting blamed for it.  Add that to her insecurities with her looks and health while dating a younger man, and one can see why her self esteem is nosediving.  Frankie feels helpless because of her legal status of being dead, and is relying on others for basic needs.  In addition, Bud just gut punched her and told her she is not allowed to watch the baby she helped deliver and name.  The kids kicked them both when they were down, which is why I can buy this scenario.  If they had tried this shit last season, both ladies would have told their children to go pack sand.  

And Robert and Sol can go take a short walk off a long pier.  

I am way too invested in this damned show.  

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In the S04e01 thread, @Juniebaby wrote:

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I know Sheree had to move because Frankie came back, although I think the 3 of them could have lived together.  Where did she go and I’m surprised she hasn’t popped up here and there.

Sheree living with Grace AND Frankie would have betrayed the premise of the show, so I'm glad they didn't go there.  What I did find strange (and sloppy), though, is that Sheree just sort of vanished from their lives once she got her house back.  The show took pains in the episodes in which Sheree appeared to show that she and Grace were quite close and, let's face it, she has to still be doing Grace's nails...  So, the fact that she was just dropped is disappointing.  Unless...

(season 5 speculation)

It was Sheree, and not Nick, who purchased the beach house to "save" it for Grace and Frankie.  It would be fitting since Grace and Frankie saved her house, but utterly unbelievable because there was no way a manicurist could have afforded that place.

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I simply did not buy that the kids were able to do everything they did, down to selling the house from underneath their mothers, without either Robert or Sol having a clue what happened, or Grace's boyfriend (notwithstanding the cheap out of sending him to Japan for two months). As much as Robert & Sol annoy me, they remain fairly plugged in to the goings-on with their exes. And now we're supposed to buy that neither of them (unless I missed something) had a clue not only that anything was amiss but that their children had joined together to force the women into a home? Give me a break. 

I feel pretty comfortable predicting that the buyer will be revealed as a friend, not foe, and G&F get their beautiful beach house back without much drama.

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2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

What I did find strange (and sloppy), though, is that Sheree just sort of vanished from their lives once she got her house back.  The show took pains in the episodes in which Sheree appeared to show that she and Grace were quite close and, let's face it, she has to still be doing Grace's nails...  So, the fact that she was just dropped is disappointing.  Unless...

(season 5 speculation)

It was Sheree, and not Nick, who purchased the beach house to "save" it for Grace and Frankie.  It would be fitting since Grace and Frankie saved her house, but utterly unbelievable because there was no way a manicurist could have afforded that place.

That wasn't the only strange (or sloppy) plot this season - anyone remember that Frankie has a sister who had actually warned her about marrying Sol? That alone should have been a major plot point not to mention that they were finally speaking to each other again after decades. I expected the kids to meet their aunt and Frankie to meet her nieces and nephews but the sister (whose name I actually forgot) vanished together with all the story-telling potential she had brought along. Her buying the house would be a real surprise - since everybody has forgotten about her existence. but I think even the writers have forgotten about her.

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35 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

That wasn't the only strange (or sloppy) plot this season - anyone remember that Frankie has a sister who had actually warned her about marrying Sol? That alone should have been a major plot point not to mention that they were finally speaking to each other again after decades. I expected the kids to meet their aunt and Frankie to meet her nieces and nephews but the sister (whose name I actually forgot) vanished together with all the story-telling potential she had brought along. Her buying the house would be a real surprise - since everybody has forgotten about her existence. but I think even the writers have forgotten about her.

Definitely.  As I said upthread, this was a very sloppily written season...which is disappointing.  The viewers of this (or any show) expect seasons to at least come close to the quality of previous seasons and the actors are too good for some of the material they received this time around.

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@hnygrl - preach!  The whole season felt off, the ending was downright insulting, and you've done a great job explaining why.  I'm 50 and I watched with my 20yo son.  He couldn't understand why it seemed the kids had just met their moms.  Sure, absent any history maybe you'd think they need more supervision and support but all of them have known both women all their lives.  They know Frankie's a flake and that Grace won't ask for help.  Neither I nor #2 son could figure out why they'd all become so suddenly and simultaneously stupid.

Martin Sheen and Sam Waterston have almost no chem but I did see a glimmer of it early this season, for a moment I could see what Robert and Sol see in each other...then the writers went and threw a wrench in it with the therapist.  And it was a bit unsettling that V from OITNB was doling out marital advice. lol  The men can get off my screen next season except for family get togethers.  I only want to see them in relationship to Grace and Frankie and the kids, I have no interest at all in their lives apart from that.

It just seems like the writers this year had the attention span of a squirrel -- dropped plots, aimless narrative, and people behaving OOC.  Maybe the rhythm of this show is every other season is either wha??? and/ or meh.

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4 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

It was Sheree, and not Nick, who purchased the beach house to "save" it for Grace and Frankie.  It would be fitting since Grace and Frankie saved her house, but utterly unbelievable because there was no way a manicurist could have afforded that place.

Yeah, that's right in line with what I said when they came upon that SOLD sign when they made it back to the house - I'd love it a thousand times over if it was Sheree, rather than Nick, who bought it, because a) we avoid the white knight crap (especially with a character who has already been quite problematic) and b) it's great symmetry after they helped her get her house back, but she's not likely to have that kind of money (unless she sells her own house, and she's not THAT good a friend, ha).

But, even if it's Nick, having bought it under one of his company names or something, hopefully they just buy it right back and move on with their "punishment" of the kids.

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On 1/27/2018 at 9:36 AM, AllyB said:

One of the things that might have been an obvious suggestion was simply moving house. The kids kept saying 'all the way out here' when they talked about where Grace and Frankie live. So I presume that they live a much further drive away from all of the others because why would you buy a beach house for your (shared) personal use if you lived just a short drive from the beach. So why not suggest that Grace and Frankie consider moving to a property nearer their kids. Yes it would suck because the beach house means so much to them both but if there are genuine concerns about how long it would take medical help to reach them at the beach house, then a move to somewhere more urban would make sense. Especially when Frankie has a restricted driving license. 

It would also have made sense for them to consider home help at least until Grace's knees both healed up. Someone who could check in on them and do light housework, take care of the basic DIY and make sure any serious jobs are looked at early on. Moving them into a home where fondue is a no-no was ridiculous.

Oh, and I've seen lots of mentions about Coyote being unemployed. I'm pretty sure he's actually a teacher.

 

A single story house would be great for someone with knee problems (and though Grace did get a replacement, she also injured her other knee - which is why she's hobbling in this episode). As someone with knee problems and a two story house, I'm fairly desperate to go back to a single floor ranch - but the financial timing isn't right.

On 2/5/2018 at 10:03 AM, Mom x 3 said:

I am a hospice physician, so I deal with this quite a bit.  A PoA is only effective in the event the patient does not have the ability to make decisions for themselves.  That being said, there is a DPoA (Designated) and an MPoA (Medical).  A physician can determine a patient's capacity to make their own medical decisions and can use an MPoA if they determine the patient is unable to.  Only a judge can determine a patient's competency on whether or not the patient can make financial decisions and then financial decision making goes to a DPoA.  As Grace and Frankie are both of sound mind, the children in no way should be able to sell that house unless both were evaluated by a judge, as they are both co-owners.  That being said, I totally hope Nick bought it for Grace because he knows her well enough to know she will come out of her funk.  I wouldn't mind if Sheree bought it for them though.  

I've been on the other end of it. I had a PoA for my father (and an MPoA, I believe, I've forgotten), which he revoked (and threw me out of his life) after he got mad at me. He gave it to an elderly relative across the country (who was in an assisted care facility),  We had no further contact (his choice, not mine). When he got Alzheimer's and was in the later stages, he got into a car accident (thankfully not injuring himself or anyone else) in another town. She refused to do anything, and Adult Protective Services begged me (his only living child) to petition to declare him incompetent and to be appointed his guardian/conservator. His doctor made his medical assessment, and I was appointed. Unlike having a PoA,  I had to make regular reports to the court and I had a fiduciary responsibility that was monitored by the courts.

So the story line of them getting a PoA for Grace and Frankie seems incredibly unrealistic to me. 

I've visited people in a number of assisted care places, and even the best (which I could never afford) depress me. Retirement communities, on the other hand, are a different matter. (can't afford them either).

Edited by Clanstarling
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You can get a stairlift for a few thousand dollars (a decade ago they could be had for $2000, but I've seen more recent quotes of $5000). It's a lot of money, but cheaper than that facility they put Grace and Frankie in, and much  better quality of life is the only issue is a bum knee.

Or, as has been said, sell the house and buy one without stairs.

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5 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Retirement communities, on the other hand, are a different matter. (can't afford them either).

We live in a 1400sf double-wide in a gated retirement community. Very affordable, and all on one floor.

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I don't think either Nick or Sheree will have bought the house. I think they'll have to live with Robert and Sol for an episode or two. None of the kids have a big enough place for them and they are mad at the kids anyway.  Sol would adore the situation (his soulmate and his husband in one house) and everyone else would hate it. Then I think Robert and/or Sol will find a way to invalidate the sale of the beach house because their POA was flawed or something. The way they tied up Sheree's situation shows they don't really care about the legality of it.

I'm not advocating that I just think it's what will happen. The Sol/Frankie making Robert jealous thing has to be resolved. Well, scratch that, it doesn't have to be. I would be perfectly happy if it wasn't. But I think it will be. The soulmate thing being dropped in this season was revival of that for a reason, I think. So, I think there will be some tension in the roommate situation. Then after they get that the writers will resolve the living situation. JMHO

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The viewers of this (or any show) expect seasons to at least come close to the quality of previous seasons and the actors are too good for some of the material they received this time around.

I did a rewatch. And I thought this season was bad before but after the rewatch it just seems so much worse. It was a drastic drop in quality. If next season started with Frankie waking up   and saying everything after her moving back was a dream I wouldn't even question it! Whatever, show, fine with me. Let's all move on from this.

Edited by CherithCutestory
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