S04.E13: The Home

[CaliCheeseSucks]

1 hour ago, Lilacly said:

I find it interesting that no one thinks Sol and Robert would back the kids rather than  Grace and Frankie.

I could see Robert backing the kids, but Sol? Nope. He would not sit down for that, his concern and love for Frankie runs too deep - and that more than anything would have made for more believable conflict with Robert than the bizarre turn towards polyamory. 

[OtterMommy]

7 minutes ago, CaliCheeseSucks said:

I could see Robert backing the kids, but Sol? Nope. He would not sit down for that, his concern and love for Frankie runs too deep - and that more than anything would have made for more believable conflict with Robert than the bizarre turn towards polyamory. 

Yeah, in fact I think that, if this had even been brought up to Sol and Robert, this might be the difference that ends them.  There is no way that Sol would go along with this--not only is Frankie his soulmate, but he's also still dealing with the guilt of leaving her.  I could, however, possibly see Robert backing the kids.  He does seem to have a better relationship with Grace now than he did at any point during their marriage, but he also is the sort of person who wants things that are "difficult" to be taken care of.

That being said, nothing we saw on this show indicated that Robert and Sol had any clue that any of this was going on....which didn't make any sense.

[CaliCheeseSucks]

2 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

That being said, nothing we saw on this show indicated that Robert and Sol had any clue that any of this was going on....which didn't make any sense.

Maybe a scene ended up on the cutting room floor where the kids tried to tell Robert but he kept turning the conversation around to his next "Tappy" win ????

God, I hate Robert.

[ChicksDigScars]

On 1/25/2018 at 4:08 PM, CEZme said:

Actually, Jane Fonda is 80.  She's quite a bit older than Peter Gallagher.  I think she's playing younger, though, and she does look great.

I think that they're playing her as 72-74 or so.  It works. Jane Fonda doesn't look anywhere near 80. She's the oldest of the four "parents," but not by a lot. Sheen and Waterston are 77 and Tomlin is 78. 

[CherithCutestory]

8 hours ago, Lilacly said:

I find it interesting that no one thinks Sol and Robert would back the kids rather than  Grace and Frankie.

I don't think this is a matter of kids v. Grace and Frankie. There is no way Grace and Frankie will be allowed back in the home. And they need a place to stay. So, that will be the immediate issue.

Quote

I think that they're playing her as 72-74 or so.  It works. Jane Fonda doesn't look anywhere near 80. She's the oldest of the four "parents," but not by a lot. Sheen and Waterston are 77 and Tomlin is 78. 

Really they all look amazing.

Quote

There is no way that Sol would go along with this--not only is Frankie his soulmate, but he's also still dealing with the guilt of leaving her.  I could, however, possibly see Robert backing the kids.  He does seem to have a better relationship with Grace now than he did at any point during their marriage, but he also is the sort of person who wants things that are "difficult" to be taken care of.

I think Robert respects Grace too much to ever go along with this. Sol loves Frankie but he has always loved her in a condescending way that seeks to protect her from herself. He would never support the kids in front of Frankie but I wouldn't be at all shocked if he did behind her back. In his mind to keep her safe.

Edited February 9, 2018 by CherithCutestory

[Bastet]

Where does the idea that the kids have power of attorney come from -- was it stated in an episode and I missed it (possible; as we neared the end, I was paying less attention) or is it an assumption based on the fact they were the ones who put the house on the market?

Because no court would have awarded them PoA over Grace and Frankie's objection, and I can't see G&F giving it to them voluntarily; it's too broad, and unnecessary even under the misunderstanding of the circumstances.  I assumed the kids were handling the sale for them as a "favor," not that the kids had actual legal authority over their moms' affairs.  But that raises the question of how the sold sign (not just In Escrow, but Sold) could be a surprise to them -- that means one/some/all of the kids, not them, signed the documents.  Which raises a whole host of other questions, and I suspect the writers glossed over all of it in favor of that dramatic moment where they make their escape but then come across the sign. 

But maybe there really was a reference to the kids having been given power of attorney - either for the home sale, or in general (although, again, the latter is just unfathomable to me) - and it flew past me.  So, can anyone point me in the right direction, and I'll re-watch that episode next time I have Netflix access?  Thanks.

[ahisma]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I assumed the kids were handling the sale for them as a "favor," not that the kids had actual legal authority over their moms' affairs.  But that raises the question of how the sold sign (not just In Escrow, but Sold) could be a surprise to them -- that means one/some/all of the kids, not them, signed the documents

You didn't miss anything, and I assumed the same thing you did. The only reference to the situation is that Grace tells Nick at the retirement community that she couldn't bear to deal with selling the beach house because she loves it so much. I wondered about the Sold sign rather than Pending, too, and figured maybe tv handwavery for drama. Maybe they added Bud to the title of the house? Could it then be sold with just his signature? 

[OtterMommy]

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

Where does the idea that the kids have power of attorney come from -- was it stated in an episode and I missed it (possible; as we neared the end, I was paying less attention) or is it an assumption based on the fact they were the ones who put the house on the market?

Because no court would have awarded them PoA over Grace and Frankie's objection, and I can't see G&F giving it to them voluntarily; it's too broad, and unnecessary even under the misunderstanding of the circumstances.  I assumed the kids were handling the sale for them as a "favor," not that the kids had actual legal authority over their moms' affairs.  But that raises the question of how the sold sign (not just In Escrow, but Sold) could be a surprise to them -- that means one/some/all of the kids, not them, signed the documents.  Which raises a whole host of other questions, and I suspect the writers glossed over all of it in favor of that dramatic moment where they make their escape but then come across the sign. 

But maybe there really was a reference to the kids having been given power of attorney - either for the home sale, or in general (although, again, the latter is just unfathomable to me) - and it flew past me.  So, can anyone point me in the right direction, and I'll re-watch that episode next time I have Netflix access?  Thanks.

I don't think a PoA was ever mentioned in the show, but was brought up here as an explanation of how the kids could have sold the beach house without Grace and/or Frankie signing off on it.  My guess is that the writers didn't expect the audience to actually think about what they were watching....

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

Where does the idea that the kids have power of attorney come from -- was it stated in an episode and I missed it (possible; as we neared the end, I was paying less attention) or is it an assumption based on the fact they were the ones who put the house on the market?

Because no court would have awarded them PoA over Grace and Frankie's objection, and I can't see G&F giving it to them voluntarily; it's too broad, and unnecessary even under the misunderstanding of the circumstances.  I assumed the kids were handling the sale for them as a "favor," not that the kids had actual legal authority over their moms' affairs.  But that raises the question of how the sold sign (not just In Escrow, but Sold) could be a surprise to them -- that means one/some/all of the kids, not them, signed the documents.  Which raises a whole host of other questions, and I suspect the writers glossed over all of it in favor of that dramatic moment where they make their escape but then come across the sign. 

But maybe there really was a reference to the kids having been given power of attorney - either for the home sale, or in general (although, again, the latter is just unfathomable to me) - and it flew past me.  So, can anyone point me in the right direction, and I'll re-watch that episode next time I have Netflix access?  Thanks.

There was a moment, I believe in this episode but I don't remember, where the kids come in with the cake. I don't explicitly say they have PoAs, but there is a reference about going to the court, and they do act as if they are in a stronger position than before.

[MissLucas]

IIRC the letter from the court refers to Frankie being alive again. 

[Clanstarling]

58 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

IIRC the letter from the court refers to Frankie being alive again. 

Thanks. I don't remember that being explicitly said, but then I watch on my phone on my lunch break at work, so I guess I missed it. I did wonder why they'd be so happy about surprising them with a PoA. :)

[Empress1]

On 2/8/2018 at 4:45 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

I think that they're playing her as 72-74 or so.  It works. Jane Fonda doesn't look anywhere near 80. She's the oldest of the four "parents," but not by a lot. Sheen and Waterston are 77 and Tomlin is 78. 

I think Grace said she was 75 this season. One or two seasons ago when Grace & Frankie tried to get a 10-year loan, Grace said she was 73.

A family friend had both her knees replaced when she was around 60. Her house has stairs. Once her knees healed, she went on about her business. It’s temporary.

I loved Grace’s checklist, particularly her calling out Briana for running her business into the ground. If the old products weren’t selling, you fix it. You rebrand. You tap new markets. You try new products. Briana failed. That’s on her. Those kids are horrible. 

[Sesquipedalia]

46 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I loved Grace’s checklist, particularly her calling out Briana for running her business into the ground. If the old products weren’t selling, you fix it. You rebrand. You tap new markets. You try new products. Briana failed. That’s on her. Those kids are horrible. 

I loved that, too. I also loved that Frankie's checklist included improvising a kick-ass checklist.

I had a feeling throughout the whole season that the show was over-playing the age difference between Grace and Nick, like they were supposed to be the actors' real life ages--a significant difference of 18 years--instead of what they're playing on the show, which seems like a much smaller gap. But if Grace is supposed to be around 75 and Peter Gallagher is playing his real-life age, 62, I guess that's a big enough difference that someone like Grace would play it up in her mind and be insecure about it.

It would be interesting to see Frankie dating a younger man. I could totally see a young guy falling for her in a Harold and Maude type situation.

[Blakeston]

I think it's clear that the writers like to come up with an endpoint for a season ("Robert and Sol become queer activists!" "Grace and Frankie wind up in a home together, can't you just imagine the hijinks?"), and then they carelessly throw together a plotline to get there.

Last season we had the stupid plotline with the musical theater protesters. And this season we had the kids inexplicably decide that their mothers needed to go to assisted living.

All of that said...I think the kids were justified in being concerned about Grace. if I found out my mother was living in a completely ransacked house, in which the bathtub had fallen through the bathroom floor into the kitchen, and she didn't tell anyone about it? I'd be very worried.

Especially if she'd just badly injured her "good" knee shortly after getting the other one replaced, and she pretended it was fine.

Especially if she was popping painkillers like tic-tacs, and she's been given a citation for public intoxication in the middle of the day at a hardware store after crashing her scooter into a police car.

None of that justifies jumping straight to assisted living, of course. They should have made the intervention about her substance abuse.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Blakeston

[OtterMommy]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

All of that said...I think the kids were justified in being concerned about Grace. if I found out my mother was living in a completely ransacked house, in which the bathtub had fallen through the bathroom floor into the kitchen, and she didn't tell anyone about it? I'd be very worried.

Especially if she'd just badly injured her "good" knee shortly after getting the other one replaced, and she pretended it was fine.

Especially if she was popping painkillers like tic-tacs, and she's been given a citation for public intoxication in the middle of the day at a hardware store after crashing her scooter into a police car.

None of that justifies jumping straight to assisted living, of course. They should have made the intervention about her substance abuse.

Yes the kids (and everyone who knows Grace) should have been concerned about these things.  Where is she living while her house is a mess?  How is she getting along with two bad knees?  And, yes, the painkillers and the drinking...   (Of course, with Mallory and Brianna, I'm not sure they WOULD notice that!) But it was like putting someone in an iron lung because they had a phlegmy cough....

[Rockstar99435]

On 1/29/2018 at 1:00 PM, iMonrey said:

Let me join the chorus of those who felt everyone acted out of character at the end. I can't shake the suspicion that Brianna went along with this plan because she tanked her mother's company and wants to discredit Grace's criticism of her business acumen by putting her in a home. And that really makes me dislike the character. Bud came across as equally unlikable the way he over-reacted to Frankie getting lost. He's the one who suggested she drive around with Faith for an hour or so - he should know damn well how his mother drives. That was totally on him.

Well, if they wanted me to hate all of the kids, they succeeded. I can't believe those ungrateful, greedy brats used their mothers' friendship in order to manipulate them into going to a home just so they didn't have to be bothered by them anymore. At least Arlene's son (1) only put her in the home because of her alzheimers and (2) actually came to see her regularly. Did the brats ever go and see their mothers? I bet not.

And Brianna totally did it because she was embarrassed that she tanked her mom's company. Next season better start with the ladies getting their house back. Then I want to see Grace stage a hostal takeover of Say Grace, partnering with Lauren, and then firing Brianna, her boyfriend, and Mallory. I want to see Grace and Frankie on the warpath.

[debraran]

8 hours ago, Rockstar99435 said:

Well, if they wanted me to hate all of the kids, they succeeded. I can't believe those ungrateful, greedy brats used their mothers' friendship in order to manipulate them into going to a home just so they didn't have to be bothered by them anymore. At least Arlene's son (1) only put her in the home because of her alzheimers and (2) actually came to see her regularly. Did the brats ever go and see their mothers? I bet not.

And Brianna totally did it because she was embarrassed that she tanked her mom's company. Next season better start with the ladies getting their house back. Then I want to see Grace stage a hostal takeover of Say Grace, partnering with Lauren, and then firing Brianna, her boyfriend, and Mallory. I want to see Grace and Frankie on the warpath.

From you to the writers ears! ; )

I wont watch if they make them patsy's and pushed around because of their age. The whole show was about empowerment.  I don't like how much Grace drinks but that has been her M.O for many, many years. She should have had an intervention a long time ago. I hope she does get a say in the company again. Wisdom has it's perks.

[Jillybean]

My husband and I just finished the season over the weekend. It really got to the point for me where I didn't want to watch any of the characters except Grace and Frankie. I am not interested in boring, no-chemistry-having Sol and Robert. It's a shame, because I always liked Martin Sheen before this role. It's hard to remember what Sam Waterston was like on Law & Order (which I guess is a testament to the actor...?). I don't enjoy any of the kids, particularly Brianna -- which is too bad since I liked her in S1. I don't understand why Barry would put up with her. With the episodes as short as they are, I don't know that I would FF the non-GraceandFrankie scenes, but it's tempting. The other stuff is just filler at this point and I'd prefer 30 full minutes of the ladies. 

The whole thing with the assisted living and the house was way beyond the pale. I hope they are setting G&F up for a much more empowered S5. My husband is also in the "Nick bought the house" camp, but I would rather that the ladies didn't need a man or one of their offspring to take care of them. I guess we'll wait a year to find out.

[AZChristian]

1 hour ago, Jillybean said:

The whole thing with the assisted living and the house was way beyond the pale. I hope they are setting G&F up for a much more empowered S5. My husband is also in the "Nick bought the house" camp, but I would rather that the ladies didn't need a man or one of their offspring to take care of them. I guess we'll wait a year to find out.

I still don't "get" how anyone else got title to the house to sell it.  Neither Grace nor Frankie was unable to make their own financial decisions, so unless they voluntarily signed over a Power of Attorney, no one else could sell the house.  I have PoA for my brother, who lives alone in an apartment.  He NEEDS to be in assisted living, but whenever I try to get a doctor or someone to declare that he is unable to live alone, they say, "Oh, we see people in MUCH worse shape who still live alone."  Grace's bad knee and Frankie's occasional mental lapses would not force them into assisted living, or even out of their home.

I could see them moving into the senior community while their house is being refurbished, but I can't see the house being sold out from under them.  With Sol and Robert both being attorneys who still care for the women they were married to for so many years, this whole plot line is stupid.

[possibilities]

The premise is that they women agreed to sell the house because they thought they were doing it to protect the other. It's BS, though. Neither character would have agreed that the other was incapable of living independently, so the idea that the kids managed to convince them -- in just one conversation!!-- is insulting to both the viewers and the entire previous history of the show.

[Jillybean]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

The premise is that they women agreed to sell the house because they thought they were doing it to protect the other. It's BS, though. Neither character would have agreed that the other was incapable of living independently, so the idea that the kids managed to convince them -- in just one conversation!!-- is insulting to both the viewers and the entire previous history of the show.

Maybe it's because it was late by the time we got this episode, but I really thought the kids had only persuaded them to go to assisted living -- not to sell the house. I still don't buy they would have agreed so easily to any of it -- regardless of the terrible manipulation by the kids.

[Bastet]

They knew the kids were handling the sale of the house (Grace tells Nick they put it on the market), but didn't know it had sold (they're surprised to find the Sold sign when they reach the house after their break-out), so that means the kids were not just handling the logistics, they were authorized to sign the papers.  That makes no sense; there is absolutely no reason for Grace and Frankie not to have retained title in their names.  You wouldn't bother transferring to the kids, so they could turn around and transfer it to whomever they sold it to, and then deal with another unnecessary step (and tax implications) in that the money comes to them and they turn around and give it to Grace and Frankie.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.  They just wanted the cliffhanger of Grace and Frankie triumphantly breaking out and making their way to the house (contemplating the kids' punishment along the way), only to find the big ol' Sold on the sign, and decided to ignore the lack of logic to get there.

I'll ignore it, too, if next season's storyline getting them back into the house is good, but I'm going to go ahead and grumble during hiatus.

[retired watcher]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

The premise is that they women agreed to sell the house because they thought they were doing it to protect the other. It's BS, though. Neither character would have agreed that the other was incapable of living independently, so the idea that the kids managed to convince them -- in just one conversation!!-- is insulting to both the viewers and the entire previous history of the show.

I thought the house was Grace's. She got it in the divorce settlement.

[Bastet]

16 minutes ago, retired watcher said:

I thought the house was Grace's. She got it in the divorce settlement.

No, they both got it in the settlements (it had originally belonged to the four of them); that's how they got stuck together to begin with.

[Sesquipedalia]

On 2/19/2018 at 7:03 AM, Jillybean said:

It really got to the point for me where I didn't want to watch any of the characters except Grace and Frankie.

I highly recommend a Grace and Frankie-only rewatch. It goes really fast, and the show is much improved.

 

On 2/19/2018 at 7:03 AM, Jillybean said:

My husband is also in the "Nick bought the house" camp, but I would rather that the ladies didn't need a man or one of their offspring to take care of them. I guess we'll wait a year to find out.

I'm in your camp. Nick buying the house would be too easy. I imagine there will be a whole lot of shenanigans involved in getting the house back.

My ignorance of home ownership clearly helped me suspend my disbelief on this. I just assumed Grace and Frankie had agreed to sell the house because they didn't live there anymore and the kids were taking care of it. 

Also, although I don't find the story line super believable, I don't think we necessarily have to believe that the kids talked their moms into the arrangement all at once. Two months elapsed between the conversation we saw and the first time we see them in the home, so the children could have worn them down over time. It's possible Grace and Frankie went to stay with their respective kids since their house was unlivable and were therefore isolated from each other.

[Inquisitionist]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 9:57 AM, Wings said:

 I don't like the actors who play the men.  They cannot do gay well at all! I don't think they were Fonda's first choice either. 

Dare I say that I don't think Sam Waterston is a very good actor in general?   Oh, he's done some work that I've admired, but in this series, as in L&O, his performance feels like a collection of tics.

[Wings]

40 minutes ago, Inquisitionist said:

Dare I say that I don't think Sam Waterston is a very good actor in general?   Oh, he's done some work that I've admired, but in this series, as in L&O, his performance feels like a collection of tics.

Exactly.  I have never seen L&Order so I am glad to hear that is his usual way.  For some reason I thought it was his interpretation of gay.  

[debraran]

18 hours ago, Wings said:

Exactly.  I have never seen L&Order so I am glad to hear that is his usual way.  For some reason I thought it was his interpretation of gay.  

He might have a slight tremor, more when excited, and maybe worse in older years, but I don't remember it so much when seeing him years ago in a one man play at a local theater. Also in an old movie when he was very young, Glass Menagerie.  I think it might be part of of his character and part him.

Many might not remember Katherine Hepburn well but her scene with Sam here is Kate at her best.

[mmccpp]

"I think they thought she was starting on dementia with the way she (and Frankie) let the house get to the point that the bathtub fell through the ceiling"

When I was 59, I went out into the backyard to fill the bird feeder, and when I came back in I discovered that the entire drop ceiling, living AND dining room, had collapsed.  And don't ask about the holiday weekend leak from a retrofitted pipe that went through a beam.  House stuff happens.  You get your knee replaced and you get help ... rehab, visiting nurses, visiting PT, stair lifts. 

And why leap into assisted living?  Even if they DID need some help they could have explored in home or retirement housing facilities before making the commitment to AL.  My mother managed at home with some outside help til she was 98 and only then went into assisted living. 

I know it's just a TV show, but I would rather have seen Grace and Frankie figuring these things out on their own.

[LazyToaster]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 4:45 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

I think that they're playing her as 72-74 or so.  It works. Jane Fonda doesn't look anywhere near 80. She's the oldest of the four "parents," but not by a lot. Sheen and Waterston are 77 and Tomlin is 78. 

It seems like I remember Grace saying something about "I'm 73" in one of the shows (probably when talking about Nick).  

[LazyToaster]

Oh!  I loved that clip from the old Hepburn movie with a young Sam Waterston.  I had never seen him before L&O, so that was very cool.  

[Yeah No]

Whew, what a thread!  Add me to the chorus of age-ist, sexist outrage!  @hnygrl, I am right there with you all the way!

No wonder my best friend kept telling me to keep watching.  I knew she was hinting at some kind of bombshell at the end of this season.

I am hoping the writers didn't just get sloppy and that Jane and Lilly agreed to this turn of plot events for a good reason.  Like I wonder if the point is for them to show how people can jump to conclusions that everything is happening because they're getting older and therefore not able to take care of themselves anymore, and how sexist it is compared to the men, who have had heart attacks and other flightiness like Sol with his instigating the protesters, but no one thinks they need to go to a home.  All of that was intentional and just a set up for the revenge and vindication they'll achieve next season.  They'll show all of them - They're not going to accept others strong arming them into giving up their house, their independence and their careers!  They're going to succeed on their own and put them all to shame!  Grace will even bail out her old company from her completely selfish/untalented daughter who doesn't seem to realize that the company is HERS now and that if it fails now that's on HER.  Of course, the show didn't have to go through all of this for Grace and Frankie to realize all those things and like others here I also don't buy that they would just allow their house to be sold out from under them.

I also thought Nick might have bought the house, but Sheree buying it is another possibility.  I actually hope it's one of those things so it's easy for them to get the house back.  Nick doesn't bother me that much.  I think he has Grace's best interests at heart.

About the men - I didn't like it when the therapist told them that many gay male couples opted for an open marriage, like it was some kind of exclusively male thing to want variety in their relationship, which I'm not sold on that in general much less with Sol and Robert.  But because of that stereotype that advice was given and now we have a nude guy standing in front of them, LOL.  I think they might draw the line at the naked guy and realize they need to find another way to keep their relationship interesting.  I personally think the two of them are not a great match in general and that they were better matched with their wives, so that's why they're feeling bored with each other.  I agree with what was said upthread that they didn't have to face this when they were just having an affair, but the daily life grind together will bring out that incompatibility.

Speaking of eldercare issues, my 90 year old dad still lives alone in an apartment and still drives.  I wouldn't think of insisting that he move to a home or assisted living facility because he is till doing OK for now and his independence is very important to him.  I reassess that all the time, though.  And he does have someone that comes in once a week to help with laundry and cleaning.  He still does his own grocery shopping for staple items like milk and bread, but he's lucky that he has a really good diner only a block from his apartment so he rarely cooks anything other than in the microwave.  In light of that this plot with Grace and Frankie seems very preposterous indeed as those two women were nowhere near needing to be put in that living arrangement.  I could see getting a home health aide while Grace was recuperating but that's about it.

Yay on hearing that there will be a season 5 as despite some of the preposterous and annoying stuff, I love this show!

[possibilities]

Maybe one of the kids will break a leg and also get scammed by a contractor, and Grace and Frankie will try to have them declared in need of legal guardianship.

And, hopefully, when Grace takes back and saves the cosmetics company, Brianna will be out of work and need to move back in with Saul and Robert because she's broke and Grace and Frankie won't have her.

[MissLucas]

Brianna being forced to live with Saul and Robert - now that could be interesting!

I'm glad we get a season 5 but whatever the writers pull out of their hats it'll be hard to forget the bad taste left by the ending of this season. Redeeming the kids seems pretty difficult - I guess we'll have to resort to plenty of handwaving muttering 'bygones'.

[LazyToaster]

Maybe the whole thing is a bad dream?  I hated how it ended...

Edited March 5, 2018 by LazyToaster

[Sandiscot]

I'm so glad I read all these posts. I was so angry when I finished watching. Agist, sexist, aaargh! They better have another season and they better get it right.

[Yeah No]

I just had a thought - Maybe in their fictitious and out of character resignation at allowing themselves to go into a home, Grace and Frankie signed their home over to the kids, who then put it on the market.  When my Dad was 75 he signed his house over to me.  It's something a lot of older parents do to make things easier for their kids in the eventuality of their death.  In that case, the kids would not have needed a power of attorney to sell it.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Yeah No
left out a preposition

[ProudMary]

On 1/22/2018 at 10:57 AM, Wings said:

Good point @BosomBuddy.  The men don't even misplace their keys as the women run the gambit of aging behavior.   I don't like the actors who play the men.  They cannot do gay well at all! I don't think they were Fonda's first choice either. 

 

On 2/22/2018 at 10:34 AM, Inquisitionist said:

Dare I say that I don't think Sam Waterston is a very good actor in general?   Oh, he's done some work that I've admired, but in this series, as in L&O, his performance feels like a collection of tics.

Somehow, I think Jane Fonda was just fine with the casting of Sam Waterston.

[Wings]

Thanks for the clip, but just because she worked with Sam on the his film doesn't mean he was her first choic.    ;^)

[AZChristian]

On 2/22/2018 at 8:34 AM, Inquisitionist said:

Dare I say that I don't think Sam Waterston is a very good actor in general?   Oh, he's done some work that I've admired, but in this series, as in L&O, his performance feels like a collection of tics.

I agree with the "collection of tics" in G&F.  Have you seen "Godless" on Netflix?  He is TOTALLY different.

[Clanstarling]

40 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I agree with the "collection of tics" in G&F.  Have you seen "Godless" on Netflix?  He is TOTALLY different.

I've watched Sam since back in the day (Rancho Deluxe - anyone remember that fairly terrible movie in 1975 with Jeff Bridges). I've always liked him, and think he's a good actor. 

I happen to like Sol and Robert - mostly because they are almost exactly like a gay couple I used to know. They were a few years younger, and sort of closeted (it was the 70's, and one was a professor), but the dynamics were very much the same.

[mmccpp]

On 3/16/2018 at 3:04 AM, Yeah No said:

I just had a thought - Maybe in their fictitious and out of character resignation at allowing themselves to go into a home, Grace and Frankie signed their home over to the kids, who then put it on the market.  When my Dad was 75 he signed his house over to me.  It's something a lot of older parents do to make things easier for their kids in the eventuality of their death.  In that case, the kids would not have needed a power of attorney to sell it.

You're right ... lots of people do that.  My father the lawyer always recommended against it.  "Sure, your kids would never do anything not in your best interests, but people make mistakes, and your daughter may be trustworthy,but what about the sleazeball she married?  Hum?"

[Bastet]

It's also something done when the parent is still living in the house, and presumably will be until she/he dies.  Grace and Frankie were living elsewhere, and weren't dying, so to have signed it over to the kids, meaning the kids would get the money when it sold, then have to turn around and give that money back to Grace and Frankie, is an unnecessary mess and causes tax implications. 

There's no logic behind the kids having title or power of attorney (no reason Grace and Frankie would have given it willingly, and no way the kids would have gotten it over their objections had they tried), and that's fine - even with Grace's attitude when she says the kids put the house on the market, it could still mean the kids are just handling the logistics with the real estate agent and, while Grace and Frankie agreed to selling the house, they are sad about it.  That's fairly logical.

But in that scenario, Grace and Frankie - still the owners - are the ones signing the paperwork.  So that falls apart when they make their escape and reach the house, only to be shocked by the "Sold" sign -- for the transaction to have gone far enough for that to happen (not a sign saying "in escrow" or "pending," but sold), Grace and Frankie would have signed the documents and it wouldn't be a surprise, and even if the real estate agent jumped the gun on the sign, to accept the offer would require their signatures. 

At this point, it just seems to be dramatic license taken to get to the reveal at the end.  And if next season Grace and Frankie get their house back and the kids get their asses handed to them for their manipulation (telling each that it was for the other), I'll indeed wave it away.  But so help me if Nick is the buyer (as I suspect) and remains the new owner for any longer than is necessary to sell it right back to them.  I will not abide some scenario where he's a boyfriend-landlord.

[Yeah No]

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

It's also something done when the parent is still living in the house, and presumably will be until she/he dies.  Grace and Frankie were living elsewhere, and weren't dying, so to have signed it over to the kids, meaning the kids would get the money when it sold, then have to turn around and give that money back to Grace and Frankie, is an unnecessary mess and causes tax implications. 

It's also something done when the parent is still living in the house, and presumably will be until she/he dies.  Grace and Frankie were living elsewhere, and weren't dying, so to have signed it over to the kids, meaning the kids would get the money when it sold, then have to turn around and give that money back to Grace and Frankie, is an unnecessary mess and causes tax implications. 

There's no logic behind the kids having title or power of attorney (no reason Grace and Frankie would have given it willingly, and no way the kids would have gotten it over their objections had they tried), and that's fine - even with Grace's attitude when she says the kids put the house on the market, it could still mean the kids are just handling the logistics with the real estate agent and, while Grace and Frankie agreed to selling the house, they are sad about it.  That's fairly logical.

But in that scenario, Grace and Frankie - still the owners - are the ones signing the paperwork.  So that falls apart when they make their escape and reach the house, only to be shocked by the "Sold" sign -- for the transaction to have gone far enough for that to happen (not a sign saying "in escrow" or "pending," but sold), Grace and Frankie would have signed the documents and it wouldn't be a surprise, and even if the real estate agent jumped the gun on the sign, to accept the offer would require their signatures. 

If Grace and Frankie had "life estate" in that home they would have the right to inhabit it until they die without fear of having it sold out from under them.  I'm not sure if that still holds if they voluntarily move out, though.  If they did that or just gave the house to the kids it's the kids' house to do with as they wish and they would reap the profits of the sale.  I would imagine if Grace and Frankie had done this they would not expect to get the profits from the sale anyway.  But I don't believe they would have done this no matter how coerced they were anyway, so it still makes no sense to me.

Even if the kids were handling the real estate sale and did not technically own the house, you're right that G&F would have had to sign off on the closing. and they would have known that before trying to go home.

11 hours ago, mmccpp said:

You're right ... lots of people do that.  My father the lawyer always recommended against it.  "Sure, your kids would never do anything not in your best interests, but people make mistakes, and your daughter may be trustworthy,but what about the sleazeball she married?  Hum?"

Not if you gave the parent life estate.  Then they have the right to inhabit the home until they die without fear of having it sold out from under them.   Plus there are always clauses that can be added to wills to prevent any surviving spouse from evicting the parent from the house in the event they take ownership of it.  Usually a parent wouldn't do it if they didn't trust the child and their spouse.  In my case I've been married close to 40 years and my husband is like a son to my Dad.

[possibilities]

They may have agreed to sell the house because that's how they paid for the assisted living place. Those places are very expensive, and the money would have had to come from somewhere. It doesn't explain the particular arrangements, i.e. who signed the papers, but it would explain why the house was on the market. And if they agreed to sell, it makes sense to me that they would agree to let someone else handle it.

My guess is that if they agreed to a sale, they designated someone else power of attorney to sign the documents, and that the kids were going to tell them the sale had happened, but were planning to tell them at the party, and Grace and Frankie fled before they heard the news.

[greekmom]

I would love to see Grace & Frankie get the beach house back with Sol and Robert's help in out smarting the kids. Not with Nick's help. 

Again, having Grace take over Say Grace with Lauren's assistance to kick Brianna in the butt. I loved her up till the end of this season.

I would love to see Sol and Robert get some better story lines other than having them at the theater or cliche gay issues. If it has to be a gay issue, how about them getting involved with other senior gay men in social activities that isn't theater? 

[hnygrl]

Still can't (re)watch this season.

I'm still mad.

And if they don't fix this in season 4, episode ONE?

I'm done with this show.

I'm angrier about THIS than I was the How I Met Your Mother Finale (still haven't forgiven or forgotten, but I can watch again  up to season 6).

Season FIVE episode one.

[LuvMyShows]

A few weeks ago I started watching this show because my college-age son's girlfriend recommended it.  I was skeptical, because I thought it would be sitcom-ish with hijinks, kind of like Golden Girls.  But I was pleasantly surprised watching the first season, as it was almost entirely relationship-centered.  The second season continued with things that brought out aspects of Grace and Frankie's personalities, and there were things that made you think and reflect.  But as the divorce/betrayal got farther in the rear-view mirror, the hijinks and typical sitcom stuff has ratcheted up big-time.  It's almost as though the writers are reverting to typical sitcom fare, rather than remembering what made them successful for these characters and with the viewers in the first place.  The problem is that idiocy only works as a plot device if it's consistent with the characters and the premise, like with "Three's Company".   Fans of this show clearly like thinking and reflecting, and that's why we've had such problems with many of the plot devices, and the house sale in particular, along with the old/decrepit Grace and Frankie vs. the young/virile Robert and Sol.  I sincerely hope the writers up their game next season, and revert to what made them successful in the first place.   

[theatremouse]

On 1/22/2018 at 11:07 AM, rippleintime17 said:

You wouldn't sell it in two minutes, though! 

The house is supposed to be in La Jolla. I absolutely believe it could be sold within 3 days of being on the market, or at least in escrow. It is still a mystery how G&F wouldn't have had to participate in the closing, and thus really shouldn't been surprised, but super fast sale is totally realistic for the area.

On 1/27/2018 at 9:36 AM, AllyB said:

One of the things that might have been an obvious suggestion was simply moving house. The kids kept saying 'all the way out here' when they talked about where Grace and Frankie live. So I presume that they live a much further drive away from all of the others because why would you buy a beach house for your (shared) personal use if you lived just a short drive from the beach. 

 

Didn't Nick tell Grace to buy a bungalow in Mission Hills? She coulda/shoulda. Also, presuming the kids all live in San Diego County, other than during rush hour, none of them live more than 30 minutes from La Jolla, so all that "way out here" business is poppycock. 

It almost feels like maybe this show were originally conceptualized as Rich Families in Boston and the beach house were on Cape Cod or Martha's Vineyard (or in NYC and the beach house were in the Hamptons). In that context, having a beach house you go to on weekends and in summer makes sense. As would some of the "way out there" comments. But the way these families used that house before the divorce never made sense, other than to suggest they were very rich. If you live and work in San Diego and want a beach house in La Jolla, you just live in it.

[iMonrey]

Quote

It's very typical in cheating or casual couples. They've been together for 20 years but in mostly stolen moments where there was the always the thrill  and fear of getting caught and where they had Grace and Frankie to bounce off of. They didn't have to live with each other and deal with the day to day stuff or any of the hard relationship stuff and could fantasize about what it would be like being together instead of having to deal with the reality.

That's not true of Robert and Sol though. They were partners in a law firm and saw each other every day, and also co-owned a beach house together. Plus, they have presumably taken many business trips together. So they in fact have lived day-to-day with each other prior to divorcing their wives and living openly. About the only difference is that they now live in the same house 24/7. But since they retired from their law firm they have simply traded spending all day together at the office with all day together at home.