S06.E11: We Fall

[formerlyfreedom]

Cayden James ups the ante by launching his plan to take control of every aspect of the city. Despite the scope of Cayden’s plan, Oliver is determined to foil it with just the Original Team Arrow – and without the aid of Rene, Dinah, or Curtis. But things get complicated when William is endangered as a result of Cayden’s handiwork.

 

[Soulfire]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Felicity: “This is what he does best, and nobody does it better. What your dad does, it’s… very dangerous. And heroes don’t always make it home. I never forget that. But, I’ve loved your dad from the first time he brought me a bullet-riddled computer. That was a long time ago, which means I’ve loved him for a long time, which means I’ve worried about him for a long time. And he hasn’t always been truthful. He’s lied. He’s kept secrets. He’s not perfect. This life… it’s not ideal. But he makes his sacrifices, so we have to make ours. I sometimes think to myself that that’s what makes this love digger than other kinds of love. I know it sounds cheesy, but it does because we can’t take things for granted. We have to live with the fear and the uncertainty that everything can be taken from us in an instant. Cause that’s the price we pay for choosing the people that we love. Everything he does, he does for a good reason. Or what he thinks is a good reason. So…"

 

 

 

 

Bonus:

Nice parallel of "step-mom in training" Felicity --

 

 

Also love this GIF set for Felicity's speech --

 

Other GIFs from here and here and here.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Soulfire

[cambridgeguy]

So does the show want us to root for the newbies to suffer a humiliating defeat?  If so then good job!

They do have a point about their team name.  You can't call yourself New Team Arrow when you hate the original Arrow and have no one on the team who uses a bow.

[bethy]

Once again I'm at a loss if they want me to do anything other than despise the newbies. Because they are awful.

But pretty much everything else in this episode was absolutely delightful. 

Also, I really missed the live commenting thread last night!

[Morrigan2575]

I really liked this episode it was well written and well paced, usually Arrow tries to do too much and doesn't let their scenes breathe. This episode had good moments of action and good character/relationship beats.

I'm not sure about Vigilante everything they're setting up is redemption or him always being 'good'. Even going back to last season he was more anti-hero than villain. However, there's a party of me screaming it's too early for this! So he's either playing Dinah which will last a few more episodes before a big dramatic reveal, or he's legit in which case, he dies in a few episodes.

I really hate the Noobs but, Curtis is by far the worst, he's such a petulant passive-aggressive asshole. So annoying.

Loved all of the OTA, Olicity, Delicity and Felicity/William scenes. I'm trying not to be too harsh on the school bus scene because they're young actors but, holy crap that was bad. The final fight montage intercut with the Felicity/William talk was beautiful.

I'm so upset about Pike. I'm sure it's related to the actor being busy but damnit, I liked him. I can't believe they brought him back just to kill him off. Remind me never to ask for Walter back.

[mxc90]

When was the last time we have seen the FBI agent? This would have the perfect time for her to catch Oliver in the act.

Vincent could have looked the other way and let the guy kill Rene. Give the audience a gift!!!!

Too bad for Pike. Stupid way to die. The police doesn't have a second in command that Quentin had to be put back in charge!?

In the moment of chaos why were trains still operating? 

William was annoying this episode. I liked how he gave two weak kicks to the school bus door and it popped open.

[Trisha]

At the end, how did Felicity’s cellphone and Thea’s computer work during Cayden’s shut down?

Beyond some small nitpicks (pretty much everything about NTA) this was an incredibly strong episode. Felicity’s monologue interspersed with fight scenes was an all-time series great scene, thanks to the writing, Wendy’s direction and EBR’s acting. I lamented last week that Olicity didn’t act like a married couple but maybe that were easing us (or more accurately fanboys) into it because this was perfect. A year ago, I wouldn’t have believed that I’d love such a William-heavy episode but here I am. 

[Morrigan2575]

5 minutes ago, Trisha said:

At the end, how did Felicity’s cellphone and Thea’s computer work during Cayden’s shut down?

 

James probably left the City Hall Computer system up so he could get his money.

As for Felicity's Mobile, Sat phone? Magic? Running on the dark net? A Wizzard did it?

[Primal Slayer]

My live thoughts:

Really? They killed off Pike? Like that?

Of course NTA is behind lol.

So Dinah who is part of SCPD isn't even involved, didnt even know her own boss is dead.

I knew Vigilante was betraying Cayden!

Oh! Showdown at work!

Why would Cayden need Oliver to do this? He could just take it himself.

What is Argus doing during all of this?

Dinah really needs a strap or something to hold her baton. Impressive cry.

Look at little Oliver being a hero.

They want us to think this will turn out dramatic but this is just set up to have him accept Oliver has to be a superhero.

Shouldn't William be with his classmates so the school doesnt get worried about where random kids are?

Well this was fast.

Diggle secretly pining to be GA is just...not a good look.

Aww look at NTAO being adults.

Oh Vincey...

This is some stupid dialogue they gave Terrific.

Don't remind me of what I've lost Felicity! But it's a good scene with the speech cutting in and out.

Vigilante being a good guy totally means that Black Siren will be staying bad to the bone.

How are not going to see the fallout from Vigilante betraying Cayden? At least a reaction

Overall thoughts:

It was an ok episode but the villains really need to be getting a bit more focus then they do. We are halfway through the season and apart from Cayden and now Vigilante what are their motivations? What was half the team even doing tonight?

It was a nice throwaway line from NTA about being the Outsiders but they arent epic enough to have that name. Their first solo mission as a team and they had to have help throughout all of it.

The best part of the episode was definitely the Felicity/William "reflection" talk. Flashing to my bb Laurels costume, to the fight scenes, good stuff. 

Vigilante being a bad guy wasn't surprising but it sucks that since he is a good guy that any sort of redemption for Black Siren, even as an anti-hero is out the door

[Hiveminder]

So CJ decided the best way to avenge his son’s death was to terrorize a city and murder good people (Pike:() and take all of that city’s money so it can’t afford to take care of its citizens just to make the one guy he thinks is responsible suffer?  Yeah, you’re really parent of the year there, you self-centered prick. I just can’t with characters who suffer such a debilitating loss and then decide the best way to deal with that is make completely unconnected people also suffer. Like their pain is more important than everyone else’s. 

The acting was terrible, but I kind of liked the school bus scene. William got a nice little zing in on his bullies. 

Team Whinybritches still suck. Do they spend all their time making snarky, bitter comments about how much Oliver and OTA suck? 

Why is Diggle upset about not being back in the hood? Where is this desire to be GA coming from? Was the alien episode supposed to set this up? Because there has been absolutely zero evidence in five seasons that Diggle has any desire to be GA. None. 

[KenyaJ]

I went to ridiculous lengths to break away from my family after my aunt’s wake last night and watch the show, only to be crushed when I couldn’t discuss it live with all of you. (Don't judge me.) I missed you guys!

Why was William’s class on a field trip with no teacher?

The writers literally want us to hate Team Pissy, right? There’s no other explanation for the way they’re writing them. I mean, Curtis giving Oliver and Diggle shit when they arrived at the community center? And then Rene’s “This changes nothing,”after Oliver praises their effort? I can’t. This new team needs to be permanent, so I can just zip right past their scenes. Worthless gits.

I guess we have out answer for why there weren’t really any Married!Olicity scenes last week. They were saving them all for this week, and it was amazing. I’m all for Maximum Domesticity, guys. Give me all of it.

In fact, I would so watch an entire show about Oliver and Felicity’s adventures in parenting. I loved all their scenes with William, especially Felicity’s scene with him in the bunker. And you’re right, William. Now that you have Felicity, you have everything. Oliver is superfluous. LOL. Kidding, of course, but is Oliver gone let him eat ice cream for dinner on the regular?

[Primal Slayer]

47 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

I'm so upset about Pike. I'm sure it's related to the actor being busy but damnit, I liked him. I can't believe they brought him back just to kill him off. Remind me never to ask for Walter back.

I would've been fine with them killing him off if he had a semi decent death. Sure he was never a main character but he's been around since s1! Give him something! I'm kind of surprised since they usually give males better send offs but so disappointing. 

[Mellowyellow]

LOVED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Curtis needs to be written off the show but that's my only gripe for today. I don't even mind the Noobs because as long as they stay on their side and don't share scenes with OTA, I don't really have to deal with them! Honestly I treat their scenes like those gawd awful flashbacks back in the day. Them having their own plot leaves time and space for OTA, Delicity and Olicity scenes! Be off with you Noobs! If the show must have them wandering around this is perfectly fine! Drift around in your own space! 

I burst into tears at Felicity's speech. That was a love letter to the Green Arrow delivered by his wife Felicity Smoak and it was in the words of Barney Stinson (hey I liked him a lot on HIMYM!)...........LEGENDARY!!!!!!!!!! THAT is how you write the ultimate OTP of all OTPs!

They are really going 100000000000 times all in with Olicity but it's so well written and quite subtle. I love all the stuff sprinkled in that just screams LOVE OF A LIFETIME but with the lightest touch. Oliver wanting to be even more domestic (me hopes he wants to make Olicitots next season!!!!!!) and Felicity telling William she's loved him since he brought in the bullet ridden computer. Now all I need is for Oliver to tell her about him seeing her and having dopey heart eyes back in the S3 flashback. Then I can drag myself into a corner, rock back and forth while singing "I knew I loved you before I met you, I think I dreamed you into life." SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Great episode, good action scenes, amazing character/relationship development, loved William being competent in a crisis and Felicity being able to predict Oliver's moves in the field (wicked me had this thought that it means if she was his nemesis she could take him down because she knows his fight pattern!).

The ending of him wiring money to Cayden James left me very stressed even though I loved the episode which I guess is a good thing!

[Angel12d]

Aside from the newbies who honestly dragged things down, this was a great episode. Such an improvement over last week, IMO.

Olicity and William are so adorable together. I went from not wanting William on the show to being pretty pleased with how they're handling everything tbh. That whole first scene of them at home (Felicity moved in with Oliver, yay confirmation!) was so cute and domestic and just...nice. I like glimpses of their lives outside the team. For a while this show forgot things like that and it suffered for it.

Pike's death was completely unnecessary and honestly, bitter-me only thinks they did it so Dinah could become Police Captain in the most unearned way possible, as with everything else she does. ?

The newbies continue being the absolute worst and their arrogance, especially from Curtis, made me want to rage punch them all in the mouth. From Dinah's "I'd rather have a team that I can trust than any kind of technology" to Rene storming off saying nothing has changed - they're all just so terrible. They're irredeemable at this point, for me anyway. Just GTFO.

Felicity's speech to William over shots of everyone fighting was AMAZING. It was romantic from Olicity's standpoint (SHE'S LOVED HIM FROM THE MOMENT THEY MET, EXCUSE MY FEELS) but also felt like it could've been talking about all superhero journeys tbh? And EBR just elevated it somehow, combined with some great editing. It's probably one of my favorite scenes of the whole series and just reiterated how much better this show is with Felicity/EBR around. I've already watched that scene like 5 times. Haha.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Angel12d

[benteen]

Much better episode then last week.  I enjoyed it but the newbies are just petulant assholes.  You know that they suck when they make Oliver look like less a of a dick with the decisions he makes in comparison.  William is actually a better part of the show than those three jerkoffs and I never would have guessed that.

Still wish the Cayden James thing was another one not motivated by revenge (which is fake revenge now).  It's a pretty damning indictment of the show that they managed to waste an actor of the talent of Michael Emmerson.

Nevertheless, really enjoyed this one and I haven't been lately.

Edited January 26, 2018 by benteen

[Angel12d]

As for Cayden James, I really like Michael Emerson but it's not really doing anything for me anymore. I think I started losing interest the moment they made his motivation about his son. IT'S ALWAYS VENGEANCE FOR SONS, I'M SO BORED. And for one terrible moment I though they were going to make Billy his son, given that Oliver supposedly killed him a year ago, and I was like NooooooOOOOoooo! Haha. 

Anyone wonder if it was Chase who killed his son though? They said he was shot by an arrow while Oliver was in Hub City and I can only think of Chase and Malcolm Merlyn who ran around shooting arrows last season. And Merlyn technically wasn't in the show then anyway...

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

. 

Anyone wonder if it was Chase who killed his son though? They said he was shot by an arrow while Oliver was in Hub City and I can only think of Chase and Malcolm Merlyn who ran around shooting arrows last season. And Merlyn technically wasn't in the show then anyway...

Maybe it was a drugged Thea who did it. Chase was probably like "Oh that was cool, let's do it again!"

[way2interested]

10 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

The ending of him wiring money to Cayden James left me very stressed even though I loved the episode which I guess is a good thing!

Yeah, it was so weird. I actually got stressed that he's holding the city hostage? I'm worried about the city that decided the best way to react after 3 terrorist attacks is to change its name? Go figure, I think the pacing was just so good I got wrapped into it.

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Pike's death was completely unnecessary and honestly, bitter-me only thinks they did it so Dinah could become Police Captain in the most unearned way possible, as with everything else she does. ?

I was worried about that too, but at least they pushed that aside for the moment and instead made Lance kind of Captain Pro Tempore. It kind of made me smile with Lance's pseudo "it's pulling me back in" line.

[Mellowyellow]

1 minute ago, way2interested said:

Yeah, it was so weird. I actually got stressed that he's holding the city hostage? I'm worried about the city that decided the best way to react after 3 terrorist attacks is to change its name? Go figure, I think the pacing was just so good I got wrapped into it.

It was so weird for me because I normally laugh at all of the threats they bring in and go "Oooh plot!". Today I was like 'Oh crap Oliver's sending him money, oh crap what are they going to do the day after and the day after that! Oh crap IS THERE NO END TO THIS????"

Lol such a peculiar reaction for me to have! 

[insomniadreams88]

I really liked this episode. Loved everything OTA, Olicity, Delicity, Olicity + William. 

Olicity + William's first scene pretty much killed me. Give me all the domesticity. All of it. 

Felicity' speech to William while Oliver was fighting was easily one of the best moments of the series. Loved all of it, from the callback to their first meeting to her telling William she's loved Oliver since then to her knowing exactly what Oliver would do next in the field.

Hated the newbies more than ever. I truly don't understand what they're doing with them. They don't want us to root for them, do they? From Rene thinking Felicity was spying on them to their attitudes in the field to the fact that the two teams are supposedly sharing intel but it's really just OTA sharing and the newbies telling OTA what they want to (a.k.a. not that Vince is their source/may be a good guy) to Rene's completely unnecessary whole "this doesn't change anything" or whatever he said before the newbies walked off at the end, WTF. Also, debating whether or not to go check out a possible attack when Vince contacted them - what was the other option? Stand around, arms crossed, pouting, in case there wasn't an attack?

As for Vince, at this point, I don't even care if he's undercover or lying to the newbies because I think I prefer him to the newbies? So sure, let's have him be good(ish) and I'd maybe even take him on the team at the end of the season over the three whiny kids.

I hate that Cayden's motivation is that Oliver apparently killed his kid ... when he wasn't even in Star City ... and considering Chase's whole "ten steps ahead of you" kick last season, it'll be surprising if he didn't send Cayden the "evidence" (and probably kill the kid too - it was around the time Felicity hooked up with Helix, so maybe they want us to think Chase was able to predict everything?) The only problem with this is that once Felicity finds this "evidence" and they can prove Oliver didn't do it ... where does that leave Cayden? The best part of Cayden last night was him using "Ben Gale" (LOST!) as an alias, and I still love Michael Emerson and I like him in the role, but ME deserves better, show. Like most of the actors.

Now, if only we could get Thea and Lance doing what they did last night instead of going on a "Black Siren can be redeemed" kick. They too deserve better.

As did Pike. Don't even get me started on that stupid death.

[Angel12d]

Let's not forget that the newbies were totally clueless as to what was happening with Cayden James and the city and it wasn't until Felicity called them that they knew anything was happening. And I'm supposed to think they're as good as OTA? GTFO. 

And the fact that they agreed to share intel and didn't just made things even worse. So if the goal was to make me loathe the newbies with the fire of a thousand suns, good job writers. GOOD JOB. 

[Featherhat]

17 minutes ago, benteen said:

  William is actually a better part of the show than those three jerkoffs and I never would have guessed that.

William was actually much more useful and mature than team whiny asses. He listened to and accepted Oliver's heartfelt apology and jumped up to rescue his bus without help and kept his head in a crisis. NopeTA seemed more motivated by bitching and winning against Oliver and OTA than anything.

I have to belive we are supposed to dislike them right now.

[Morrigan2575]

22 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Anyone wonder if it was Chase who killed his son though? They said he was shot by an arrow while Oliver was in Hub City and I can only think of Chase and Malcolm Merlyn who ran around shooting arrows last season. And Merlyn technically wasn't in the show then anyway...

I think it was Chase and makes me wonder if Talia is the one who sent the message after she escaped from Lian You....presuming she survived

[Lady Calypso]

This was actually a really good episode. I found myself enjoying it more than most of the season 6 episodes.

It was nice to see NTA falling apart after patting themselves on the back. Surprisingly, Dinah is the only one that didn't piss me off. In fact, I might have felt a little bad for her. Not only did Curtis lie about Vigilante, but Rene/Curtis took credit for their only solo mission being successful when it was just Dinah who saved the day while the two bozos stood around, looking like complete idiots, and she's the only one to not throw a passive aggressive hissy fit while working with OTA. So...good job, Dinah. You did something right and didn't piss me off. Sure, she had some moments at the beginning that annoyed me, but then the other two outshone her in the annoyance department. 

Curtis and Rene? They can go screw themselves. Their "banter" was not cute, but annoying. Curtis' passive aggressive jab in the field toward Oliver was uncalled for, especially since Oliver had willingly shared information with them while Curtis couldn't be bothered to inform them about Vigilante. Rene's jab in the field was also uncalled for and annoying. Also, their "majority rules" thing may make sense with how they determined the hierarchy of their team, but their attitude about it with Dinah, especially's Curtis' attitude after keeping the Vigilante secret, made things worse.

Poor Pike. He really didn't deserve to die like that. Maybe he could have just been put into a coma again?  

Some good Oliver/Felicity/William stuff. Ok, so the field trip bus scene was a little forced, but Jack Moore did what he could, I guess. I did like the Olicity moments as well. I think they were wonderfully done.

So, I can see why Stephen praised Emily for her work this episode. I will say, the scene of Felicity telling William about the hardships of being a hero overlapping with the montage of the teams fighting? I thought that was beautifully crafted, and it may be my favourite scene of the season, and one of my favourite scenes of the series. I had to look to see who directed it, and I was pleased to see it was Wendey Stanzler, who has directed some other Arrow episodes that had similar creatively done shots (Sara's resurrection episode and last season's Underneath, for example). 

Poor Thea and Quentin. They don't really get that much to do nowadays. 

Cayden James could have been such an interesting villain if he had a different reason for going after Oliver. As it is, they have Cayden attacking Oliver for no good reason, as someone seemed to have set HIM up. Oh yay, I wonder who it could be. My money's on a team member of his. Possibly Dick Dragon? 

Still, a very solid episode and I enjoyed a lot of it.

[Mellowyellow]

More Random thoughts:

I found JH's acting a bit jarring in the scenes where Dinah gets worked up. I think she does the whole broody quiet thing a lot better than the angry/worked up thing which makes her look like she's severely over acting. I even thought she was cute when she got all excited on that date with Vince the other week but angry really doesn't work on her!

***

Did you all notice the swaying while Olicity kissed? I swear they have the cutest moves to make us all squeeeeeeee!

On another note I LOVED the fact that William didn't even correct the kid who called Felicity his "Mom" and just said "At lease she can read." That made me squee too! 

As you can guess I squeed a lot in this ep. I think I'm all squeed out! 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[Chaser]

I'm watching the episode now.

I really wish they had done more with Pike when they had him. 

Rene automatically assuming Felicity is tracking and hacking them .... I swear he has more of a beef with her than he does Oliver and Diggle. I don't get why.

They are going so hard with Vigilant being one of the good guys that I'm concerned. It's too early. 

I thought Olivers assistant was Carly Pope for a moment. It was unsettling.

Felicity has this new maturity to her that was beautiful. Felicity is so good she can't hack herself.

 Curtis is a little shit. 

I don't understand Diggle's GA envy. It's weak sauce and really undermines what the character has done.

Dinahs cry can stop a train, why isn't BS dead? 

Im loving the William scenes, but the boy still can't act at all. Lol

Was there any explanation as to why half the villains weren't there? 

[tv echo]

Great episode. 

The newbies team includes one person who back-stabbed Oliver and another person who lied to protect and help a guy who tried to kill Oliver. Yet OTA continues to act like mature adults, sharing intel with and providing assistance to the newbies without complaint. On the other hand, NTA Team Hypocrites continues to act like resentful children, making snarky remarks about members of OTA and withholding key intel from them.

So is Vince really a double agent, or is he just manipulating Dinah? If he is really a double agent, then why? Does he have a personal vendetta against Cayden, or is it just part of his mission to take down criminals? If so, then why didn't he just kill Cayden? And also kill Diaz, Anatoly and Black Siren, since killing is the Vigilante's usual M.O.?  Or maybe, is he now working for some law enforcement agency (like ARGUS)? But none of these possibilities would explain or excuse his repeated attempts to kill Oliver.*

(* If the Vigilante really is undercover, then that ups the odds of him being redeemed and maybe killed. However, if he turns out to be a manipulative, irredeemable bad guy, then I think that ups the odds of Black Siren being redeemed. I think one of them will be redeemed and the other one will not.)

Biggest mystery: Who manipulated Cayden James with the false evidence from Corto Maltese? Wouldn't he know if electronic evidence was doctored? Or was he blinded by emotion? The predictable suspect would be someone from within his existing cabal of villains, like Diaz/Dragon. A wild guess would be Noah Kuttler, who's also good with computers. An even wilder guess would be William's grandparents, who might blame Oliver for their daughter's death and for taking away their grandson. 

If the person pulling the strings behind the scenes turns out to be a regular guy, then it would be very Civil War-esque. You know, someone who knows he isn't strong enough to defeat the superhero, so he manipulates a powerful person to fight the superhero for him.

My favorite scene in this episode, by far, was Felicity's really moving speech to William about Oliver, heroism, sacrifice, and love, and how she's watched him in action so many times that she can almost predict his fighting moves. Her monologue playing out against the backdrop of the teams fighting the bad guys was just really emotional and effective.

Edited January 26, 2018 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Oliver's hair was cracking me up this episode.

I really really really loved Felicity talking about Noah. I just wish we would see him.

Im so struck by how much the show doesn't need the Boobs. It's like they are just playing Superhero  because their egos are sayings they are the bestest and OTA isn't. I don't get genuine from them. 

I love all the domestic Olicity but I'm ready for the rip off the clothes Olicity. 

Curtis is a little shit.

I can't get over the Felicity voiceover. It was so well done. Very moving. And loved that Felicity covered his eyes at the end.

All of the Boobs are shits. Stomping off like that at the end of the big fight? Just shut up. 

[Featherhat]

Felicity's monologue to William with the fight montage was probably one of my favourite things ever in the series, beautifully written, acted and shot. See guys you can do it and be awesome and creative.

Is Reddit having a meltdown again, I haven't been over there?

Edited January 26, 2018 by Featherhat

[doesntworkonwood]

I skipped all of the newbie scenes and I usually catch up by reading the live thread so I'm not exactly sure what's going on with them, just sure that it has absolutely nothing to with OTA's plot because I literally didn't miss anything. 

There was some fantastic scenes in this episode, just like the last one, which helped to mask some of the nonsense going on with Cayden James. What exactly is he trying to achieve here? If it's just revenge over something Oliver didn't do that's really fucking dumb, and frustrating because Cayden James should be so much better than that. 

I loved Felicity's speech. I was a nice culmination of the past six years, and it means so much more coming from Felicity because she's seen it all. When she says Oliver is the best at what he does, she's not just saying it. She's seen so many other heroes/vigilantes that she knows how difficult the job is no matter what powers you have, and she's saying that Oliver is the best. That meant a lot to me as a viewer because it's the reason I've stuck around for the past six years. 

[JamieLynn832002]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Anyone wonder if it was Chase who killed his son though? They said he was shot by an arrow while Oliver was in Hub City and I can only think of Chase and Malcolm Merlyn who ran around shooting arrows last season. And Merlyn technically wasn't in the show then anyway...

That was my guess too. Evelyn used a bow too, didn't she? I'd still mostly count her as Chase doing it but she's the only other archer I can think of.

[apinknightmare]

If you removed all the petulant BS from the newbies, this episode was perfect. I loved Oliver and Felicity’s stuff, loved them with William, and especially Felicity’s talk with him. 

Now if all the whiny little hypocrite babies could just leave town or DIAF everything would be A+. 

[calliope1975]

I thought Felicity's speech was beautiful. And I loved all the marriedness.

Curtis, Rene, and Dinah can stay gone. Bunch of arrogant assholes. I hope they fall and hit the ground hard and fast. 

I tried but the kid is just not a good actor. The bus scene was terrible. I wish there was a stronger actor in the role because the scenes as written weren't bad. 

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Featherhat said:

William was actually much more useful and mature than team whiny asses. He listened to and accepted Oliver's heartfelt apology and jumped up to rescue his bus without help and kept his head in a crisis. NopeTA seemed more motivated by bitching and winning against Oliver and OTA than anything.

I have to belive we are supposed to dislike them right now.

Agreed.  He was good in that scene.  Him rescuing the bully was predictable but I actually liked that the bully then made an actual effort to try to help him immediately afterward.

[bijoux]

I started off the episode thinking it had such a great opener, like I can't even remember when I liked one that much, and then they go an kill Pike and maybe the unofficial team doctor?! Hopefully not, since they didn't name her, just mentioned the body count at the hospital.

While Cayden's reasoning is iffy, the threat feels very real and the ending was damn effective as well. Really, this was such a well crated episode, everything flowed wonderfully from beginning to the end.

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

Anyone wonder if it was Chase who killed his son though? They said he was shot by an arrow while Oliver was in Hub City and I can only think of Chase and Malcolm Merlyn who ran around shooting arrows last season. And Merlyn technically wasn't in the show then anyway...

 

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think it was Chase and makes me wonder if Talia is the one who sent the message after she escaped from Lian You....presuming she survived

 

25 minutes ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

That was my guess too. Evelyn used a bow too, didn't she? I'd still mostly count her as Chase doing it but she's the only other archer I can think of.

Oooh, I like all of these ideas. Nice.

The b00bs are comic relief, aren't they? Because they seem to be lacking basic comprehension skills. Sure, let's share intel. Oh, Cayden James is holding the city hostage? Thanks, I guess. Where did we get our intel? We know something you don't know! Neener.  I'm actually impressed there isn't enough brain power between them to suss out that sharing the identity of their source wouldn't be a bad thing for the sole reason to impress on Oliver and Dig not to shoot him and maybe kill him if there's some hole in his healing armor.

While not perfectly acted out, William's storyline was nicely threaded through the episode, both the competition in the beginning and then stepping up to help other kids in the tunnel nicely leading to the genetics moment. But dude, what a weird field trip. Am I to presume that there are only 10 kids in William's grade and not a single teacher to accompany them? Maybe this shows how people are leaving the city in droves? And while on the subject, bless you, Felicity, for so much, not least of all for being the first one to refer to him as Will. If I heard her correctly in the bunker at one point.

  

I love it that 1) she approaches him pelvis first so you know something was brewing there if not for the city falling, and 2) he clutches her so tightly. Moar!

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, bijoux said:

 

  

I love it that 1) she approaches him pelvis first so you know something was brewing there if not for the city falling, and 2) he clutches her so tightly. Moar!

There are couples who kiss and then there's *them*

[Shenanigans]

Anyone else, catch Cayden James' fake name when he walked into the Mayor's office?  Ben Gale.  Any Lost fans out there?

And, I wasn't waiting for team for Dinah to get all bitchy when Curtis withheld information from her, but no.  I guess withholding is a big deal only when it is OTA withholding it.

[Cthulhudrew]

Show, don't namedrop Corto Maltese unless you plan on finally bringing back Michael "Deadshot" Rowe. :(

Edited January 26, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Primal Slayer]

 Dinah stopping the train with her cry was a really cool moment. Last two eps they've done a good job of using that power in a unique way.

[Hiveminder]

Can I just mention that Oliver utterly failing with that toy bow and arrow was adorable? Almost as adorable as the way he started to blame the toy and then gave up. He’s clearly been losing A lot of at home archery competitions. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Hiveminder

[bijoux]

4 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Can I just mention that Oliver utterly failing with that toy bow and arrow was adorable? Almost as adorable as the way he started to blame the toy and then gave up. He’s clearly been losing A lot of at home archery competitions. 

I totally expected something along the lines of, It’s not weighted properly. And then he tries to fix the plastic bow and arrows. ?

[UNOSEZ]

The newbies are in their feelings sure.. But I'm not as upset abt it yet as some of y'all are.. I thought they did well and we've seen new or in this case newly independent heroes be a bit cocky...  So to ne that tracks.. If on the roof or even before  curtis tells Ollie and Co.  That the info came from vigilante then all you get is ppl arguing abt whether to trust him. And to be fair it probably woulda had merits both ways.. But it deff woulda led to an argument... Now that he's saved rene they at least have more proof to take to OTA to say he may be on our side..  So as a command decision it made sense to me... I thought the episode was great and I hope this tenor and style keep up. 

[Primal Slayer]

I didn't see NTAO not telling OTA that their info came from Vigilante that big of a deal since they aren't obliged to but I bet it leads to plenty of drama next week if GA comes into contact with Vigilante while NATO is around. 

[Angel12d]

If they hadn't agreed, I wouldn't think anything of it but the newbies agreed to share info and then didn't. That's shitty, IMO.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I didn't see NTAO not telling OTA that their info came from Vigilante that big of a deal since they aren't obliged to but I bet it leads to plenty of drama next week if GA comes into contact with Vigilante while NATO is around. 

True, it's not that big of a deal - Dinah not telling anyone that Vince can heal is a much bigger deal since, you know, that's something people should know - but at the same time, it's annoying since the newbies are whining all the time. They complain that OTA doesn't tell them stuff - OMG they waited a whole day to tell them they were being spied on after the team split! the horror! - and then get all huffy about OTA and whatnot and they agree to share intel, but it's coming across as "the newbies want to know everything OTA knows and only share what they want to with OTA but that should be okay because...?" 

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

If they hadn't agreed, I wouldn't think anything of it but the newbies agreed to share info and then didn't. That's shitty, IMO.

Agreeing to share info doesn't equate to sharing every minute detail. Sharing major details about saving peoples lives, where to go, evil plans etc is what they probably expect to be shared. 

[Angel12d]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Agreeing to share info doesn't equate to sharing every minute detail. Sharing major details about saving peoples lives, where to go, evil plans etc is what they probably expect to be shared. 

It kinda does when one of the newbies problems with OTA is being kept in the dark. They just look like hypocrites. 

[Primal Slayer]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

True, it's not that big of a deal - Dinah not telling anyone that Vince can heal is a much bigger deal since, you know, that's something people should know - but at the same time, it's annoying since the newbies are whining all the time. They complain that OTA doesn't tell them stuff - OMG they waited a whole day to tell them they were being spied on after the team split! the horror! - and then get all huffy about OTA and whatnot and they agree to share intel, but it's coming across as "the newbies want to know everything OTA knows and only share what they want to with OTA but that should be okay because...?" 

They whine(d) about a past experience. They are split up so both teams are on a different level with one another now. 

NTAO hasn't whined yet about getting every detail from OTA in this new deal. 

[catrox14]

Cayden James introducing himself as Ben Gale made me laugh. That was a great Easter Egg. Well done.

Curtis and Rene are still jerks. Dinah is gonna get burned by Vigilante.

[Primal Slayer]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

It kinda does when one of the newbies problems with OTA is being kept in the dark. They just look like hypocrites. 

When they were a United team. They aren't united anymore.