S06.E10: Divided

[bmoore4026]

On 1/18/2018 at 11:05 PM, Lantern7 said:

How about this . . . Oliver finds a rando, gives him hockey gear and a gun, and that guy is the new Wild Dog. "Rene, I totally respect your decision. I was thinking of retiring your identity, especially since we got Diggle stabilized. But I figured people expect a guy in a mask with little peripheral vision firing an automatic weapon. Also, the only thing he says is 'Hoss,' so it's like you never left!"

And the random dude's name is Joe Cartwright.  I approve.

Edited January 21, 2018 by bmoore4026
Forgot the period

[DrSpaceman10]

I actually liked this episode, mostly because I feel like I've been waiting for OTA scenes like these since 2B. This is how the team should have been all along. SA, EBR and DR have a chemistry that just doesn't need anyone else, the three of them are the perfect team alone imo. I'm hoping we get to keep OTA forever  for a while and they don't rush through this (lame) Civil War plot like they do everything else. 

How the show is avoiding Oliver and BS interaction reminds me of what they used to do with Alicia and Kalinda on The Good Wife, and that was because the actresses hated each other. 

[lemotomato]

One more tidbit-- nice shoutout to Jessica De Gouw when Oliver asked Jerry where Helena was, and he answered "She's underground." Underground was the show she was on the last 2 years (and possibly why she was unavailable to guest star on Arrow)

Edited January 19, 2018 by lemotomato

[UNOSEZ]

14 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I hate that Dinah and Curtis are more angry with Oliver - who had good reason to be suspicious of them - than they are at the guy who actually betrayed him. If your whole argument is about trust, you, uh, maybe shouldn't be trusting the dude who's proved twice that he can't be trusted. Just a thought.

To me it's not just abt trust.. And it's not just Oliver.. Who let's be honest was mostly dismissive of them.. Not to mention he's a do as I say not as I do kind of leader.. Let's not count the times he's lied or witheld shit from the team over the show's history.. But look at dinah she was down for diggle the entire time he was going thru his injury and from her perspective the minute things seemed iffy he was ready to drop her... This whole episode was Oliver and his ego thinking he could do it all even as John said over and over you can't.  And as usual he was hard-headed and almost died... Rene I can understand why you'd be mad.. And the spectre that under pressure he may do something in the field that threatens the team us reason to be worried.. Tho he's actively trying to clear that up so it's not an issue.. And if cayden James wants he can threaten all their loved ones and are we to believe that if he couldn't think of another way oluver wouldn't trade his kid for rene or Curtis or dinah... In the end I feel it's all moot eventually they'll come together as a team so I'm just gonna keep watching... I was very glad they toned down Curtis.. Maybe he's turning a corner

[tv echo]

The newbies were really insufferable in this episode. Their new team should really be called Team THAT = Two Hypocrites And a Traitor.

But I'll go along with NTA = Not Team Arrow.

Incidentally, was all that tech in the old Helix headquarters just sitting there abandoned? I thought Helix had removed all the wall screens and computers when they left. If so, then where did Curtis get the money to buy and install all those screens and equipment? I thought he and Felicity were short on cash? Did he dip into the investors' money? If that tech was left behind, then who owns that building? Who's getting and paying the electric bills? Curious minds want to know.

Edited January 19, 2018 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

Dinah encouraged Diggle to lie to his team, wanted to break Oliver out of jail so that he would have to be on the run for the rest of his life putting his family through that, and then they found out that Dinah was meeting up with the Vigilante in secret.

Why should Diggle trust her after that? It was either Dinah,  Rene or Curtis who sold Oliver out and based on her actions to date, there was a good possibility that it was Dinah.

I don't think Oliver would trade Rene or Dinah to get his son back. He would trade himself as he did in s3 for Thea. Which shows why Oliver is a hundred times better than Rene.

ETA Rene knew when he joined the team  that Oliver was The Boss. If he didn't like it,  then he should have walked away, not betrayed the guy who gave him a job in the mayor's office and the encouragement and means to get his daughter back.

When you're going into a dangerous situation you have to trust that your team will have your back. Oliver and Diggle could no longer trust Rene or Dinah or that Curtis would not turn off his comms because his feelings were hurt. And that's all on the n00bs. After Evelyn betrayed them,  Oliver would have placed his true team in danger by trusting without proof again

Edited January 19, 2018 by statsgirl

[Hiveminder]

4 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I motion to go back to calling the n00bs boobs. Because that's fitting to how they've been acting.

Boobs enrich the lives of billions of people, either by feeding them or entertaining them.   Team bumblefarts provide nothing but eye roll injuries and betrayal. 

[apinknightmare]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

To me it's not just abt trust.

But to them it is. That is their only stated reason for not wanting to go back to the team. 

[insomniadreams88]

Hey, question: Dinah's still the only one who knows about Vince's healing abilities, right? I didn't forget her telling the others, right? So, hmm, she's keeping something from everyone for what, months now (?), and has a problem with Felicity and Diggle taking a day to tell them about the bug in the bunker? 

I feel like anyone possibly going up against him in the field - as Dinah now knows applies to pretty much all of them - should know that "hey, this guy can heal, so, uh, don't think he'll go down so easily." 

[UNOSEZ]

2 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

But to them it is. That is their only stated reason for not wanting to go back to the team. 

True but they also intimated at hypocrisy and if Oliver is anything besides a bonafide hero.. It's a hypocrite God live him but he's stubborn and dismissive until something happens and then he apologizes... It's happened time and time again... And tho I get the anger with rene and woulda understood dropping him... At least till all of this is done... Dinah and Curtis felt betrayed that diggle and felicity didn't.. I guess come to them.. And in dinahs case stand by her for.. If were being honest not the worst thing in the world.. She was at the time in contact with her recently found out ex lover/partner... Not good.. But not the end of the world

[Hiveminder]

9 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

True but they also intimated at hypocrisy and if Oliver is anything besides a bonafide hero.. It's a hypocrite God live him but he's stubborn and dismissive until something happens and then he apologizes... It's happened time and time again... And tho I get the anger with rene and woulda understood dropping him... At least till all of this is done... Dinah and Curtis felt betrayed that diggle and felicity didn't.. I guess come to them.. And in dinahs case stand by her for.. If were being honest not the worst thing in the world.. She was at the time in contact with her recently found out ex lover/partner... Not good.. But not the end of the world

Except her ex-lover/partner (even before they knew he was Team villain) was known to run around killing whoever he deemed a bad guy with no thought to collateral damage and had attempted to murder her team leader. 

[Angel12d]

Curtis: Puts tracking nanites in Felicity's food in s5. Also Curtis: Gets mad about being spied on.

Dinah: Lies and keeps secrets, repeatedly. Stays in contact with the man she knows has tried to kill Oliver more than once. Also Dinah: How dare you not tell us something you've known only 24 hours?! How dare you not point the finger at yourselves!

Rene: Doesn't trust OTA after what they did (which was only surveil the team to find out the mole). Also Rene: BETRAYED OLIVER AND THE TEAM WHICH COULD SEND HIM TO JAIL FOR LIFE & LOSE HIM HIS FAMILY.

Basically, the newbies don't have a leg to stand on. They're total hypocrites.

[SmallScreenDiva]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Are the writers badly misreading the audience again, or is there a rabbit they can pull out of their hat? This isn't just one character like Susan but the whole group of new Team members.

Hah! A friend had actually pointed out that the noobs are the Susan Williams of this season, meant to be a good-ish character but horribly written. But yeah, I'm wondering how this ends because I feel like they've taken these characters to a point of no return. I've only seen parts of the episode but the stuff I've seen, like the discussion at the loft, put the noobs squarely in I hate you, I hope you go far, far away territory. I don't want them killed, though I wouldn't mind their asses getting kicked by Team Cayden. With Susan, Arrow was able to drop her fairly quickly. Do TPTB think they can convince the audience to embrace the noobs? Is it just online going "no, no, no" to them? Because I tell you right now, my offline friends absolutely hate them and find them useless. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Rene: Doesn't trust OTA after what they did (which was only surveil the team to find out the mole). Also Rene: BETRAYED OLIVER AND THE TEAM WHICH COULD SEND HIM TO JAIL FOR LIFE & LOSE HIM HIS FAMILY.

Aside from the MASSIVE BETRAYAL, asshole's actions are the most egregious because both Quentin and Oliver made it possible for him to get his daughter back, but he blew off the meetings with Social Services, and let his daughter stay in foster care. And NOW, he's saying that that FBI made it possible for him to get his daughter back? Like you said up thread: GTFO with that bullshit.

Curtis was like an avid groupie who wanted to join the club and it was his own actions that led to the dissolution of his marriage, so he can also GTFO.

Less said about DinahI'msotoughletmejustmakesmolderinggoogooeyeswhateverthefuckherlastnameis, the better.

[Midnight Lullaby]

The newbies made the episode annoying to watch to me. I wanted someone to either slap them or tell them to stop being such brats! Dinah was lost and killing people before Oliver decided to recruit her, Rene had his daughter back because Oliver and Lance insisted and helped him and Curtis begged to join the team even if he is useless. They should really grow up and remember they owe Oliver a lot.

[Chris24601]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Are the writers badly misreading the audience again, or is there a rabbit they can pull out of their hat? This isn't just one character like Susan but the whole group of new Team members.

The biggest strike against the noobs is that they're so replaceable. Diggle is back in action and better than Wild Dog at, well, everything, and apparently anyone can run the T-spheres (so Felicity or even William). Put Thea back in costume and NTA's only possible use becomes victims to be killed off for shock value (my hunch is one actually will be... the others will just leave town with their heads hung in shame).

If they REALLY wanted to rub salt in the wound they should also bring back Rory/Ragman (i.e. the noob everyone actually liked) and have him join Ollie's team.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, lemotomato said:

One more tidbit-- nice shoutout to Jessica De Gouw when Oliver asked Jerry where Helena was, and he answered "She's underground." Underground was the show she was on the last 2 years (and possibly why she was unavailable to guest star on Arrow)

Oh nice.

[KenyaJ]

3 hours ago, DrSpaceman10 said:

How the show is avoiding Oliver and BS interaction reminds me of what they used to do with Alicia and Kalinda on The Good Wife, and that was because the actresses hated each other. 

Lolz. It's been so long since I thought of that, but what a fiasco that was! The lack of Oliver/BS interaction has become really conspicuous, though. If we find out the show has been cutting and pasting their scenes together . . .

[MissLucas]

Is there are an on-line petition somewhere to get the newbies their own show? I'd sign in a heart-beat.

[SmallScreenDiva]

49 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Lolz. It's been so long since I thought of that, but what a fiasco that was! The lack of Oliver/BS interaction has become really conspicuous, though. If we find out the show has been cutting and pasting their scenes together . . .

It doesn't just look like they're avoiding Oliver and BS interacting. It's starting to look like they don't even allow SA and KC to be in the same frame. I didn't think about that until @Morrigan2575 pointed it out a few weeks ago. Although that might have changed in last night's ep because it looks like BS was running after GA when he shot his arrow at the rafters and made his exit.

[Morrigan2575]

6 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Is there are an on-line petition somewhere to get the newbies their own show? I'd sign in a heart-beat.

Who'd watch it? LOL?

[tennisgurl]

I honestly wonder if we really are supposed to feel for the newbies? They're written as so intensely unlikable in the last few episodes, and OTA is so competent and are making so much sense, could they really think that anyone (beyond the hardcore anti Olicity set) could be invested in them? They're just being such asshole, and, even worse, they're so generic. Even when I had warmed to the Newbies, there was nothing really special about them, in their powers, backstories, or personalities. Everything they can do, someone else on their team can already do better, so why bother? I think they all had potential, but now? They need to eat some serious humble pie if they ever want me to root for them again.  Even these writers have to know how this is coming off, on some level, right? 

I mean, probably not, but one can hope...

Edited January 20, 2018 by tennisgurl

[BkWurm1]

3 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Even when I had warmed to OTA, there was nothing really special about them, in their powers, backstories, or personalities.

 

Lol, I think you have a typo.  

[tennisgurl]

Thanks @BkWurm1 Big HUGE typo! Forgive me, OTA!!!! 

[LeighAn]

1 hour ago, KenyaJ said:

Lolz. It's been so long since I thought of that, but what a fiasco that was! The lack of Oliver/BS interaction has become really conspicuous, though. If we find out the show has been cutting and pasting their scenes together . . .

 

14 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

It doesn't just look like they're avoiding Oliver and BS interacting. It's starting to look like they don't even allow SA and KC to be in the same frame. I didn't think about that until @Morrigan2575 pointed it out a few weeks ago. Although that might have changed in last night's ep because it looks like BS was running after GA when he shot his arrow at the rafters and made his exit.

Let's not forget that there's basically two con videos where Stephen basically insinuates that he's not the biggest fan of KC. One where talking about how great Olicitys chemistry is he spoke about how he's worked with actresses he doesn't like before and if you ever see actors who have poor chemistry it means the actors don't get along. And then another video of him and David talking about an actor they both worked with who never gave them anything in scenes to work off of and how happy they were when Emily joined the show because she's a giving actress. Of course they never referred to KC by name but it's not hard to connect the dots especially given David did flat out mock KC acting blank face. And Stephen almost never looked like he put any effort into scenes with KC. 

 

My read is they can enjoy KC company on a social level but she's not someone they particularly enjoy working with on a professional level.

[BkWurm1]

If I had my way, the noobs would keep their team and the only reconciliation would be the OTA occasionally calling them in like subcontractors to boost their numbers for some fight. Go in, do the job and then go their separate ways.  

But I doubt I'll be so lucky.  And even though Curtis and his balls seem even less special than before, I think Felicity being shown so overwhelmingly tired after so many allnighters shows the show saying she needs Curtis to take shifts behind the keyboard.  I have a hard time buying it because previously she set programs to run without having to be there all the time.  I could buy this is a special case because of Cayden James.  But after that...

 

3 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

Dinah and Curtis felt betrayed that diggle and felicity didn't.. I guess come to them.. And in dinahs case stand by her for.. If were being honest not the worst thing in the world.. She was at the time in contact with her recently found out ex lover/partner... Not good.. But not the end of the world

Except when Oliver asked for an explanation (and he tried to talk to her in private) he was told, the whole team was told it was none of their business and she refused to offer any explanation.  She wanted to have their blind trust and not have to defend herself even though the team was compromised.  

Edited January 20, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

If I had my way, the noobs would keep their team and the only reconciliation would be the OTA occasionally calling them in like subcontractors to boost their numbers for some fight. Go in, do the job and then go their separate ways.  

 

Replying in Hopes and Fears.

[LeighAn]

I haven't watched yet because I'm currently in an airport coming home from vacation, but one thing that pissed me off about 6x09 and judging from descriptions reviews of this episode it seems to me like the whole "trust" argument has less to do about Rene Dinah and Curtis feeling they aren't trusted and more to do with petty jealousy that they aren't as trusted as Diggle and Felicity or feel they should be more trusted then Diggle and Felicity. I don't know about the last episode but it seems like they carry more hostility towards Diggle and Felicity and their place in Olivers life more then they have to Oliver himself.

[UNOSEZ]

15 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

If I had my way, the noobs would keep their team and the only reconciliation would be the OTA occasionally calling them in like subcontractors to boost their numbers for some fight. Go in, do the job and then go their separate ways.  

But I doubt I'll be so lucky.  And even though Curtis and his balls seem even less special than before, I think Felicity being shown so overwhelmingly tired after so many allnighters shows the show saying she needs Curtis to take shifts behind the keyboard.  I have a hard time buying it because previously she set programs to run without having to be there all the time.  I could buy this is a special case because of Cayden James.  But after that...

 

Except when Oliver asked for an explanation (and he tried to talk to her in private) he was told, the whole team was told it was none of their business and she refused to offer any explanation.  She wanted to have their blind trust and not have to defend herself even though the team was compromised.  

Agreed.. Everybody was wrong in varying degrees.. But Oliver was so bullheaded I guess I got mad.. I mean you didn't want Rene in the field fine... But after you know the odds.. U really can't ask for dinah and Curtis.. After diggle once again says you need them it's not until he fails again that he..  Showing much growth... Apologizes for his part in the breakdown.. And if ur the leader it is on you.. And asks them to come back.. I mean if u can work with merlyn after ALL the shit he pulled... You cab take back dinah and Curtis.. Either way 3 or 4 episodes from now they'll prob be working together again

[way2interested]

14 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

I haven't watched yet because I'm currently in an airport coming home from vacation, but one thing that pissed me off about 6x09 and judging from descriptions reviews of this episode it seems to me like the whole "trust" argument has less to do about Rene Dinah and Curtis feeling they aren't trusted and more to do with petty jealousy that they aren't as trusted as Diggle and Felicity or feel they should be more trusted then Diggle and Felicity. I don't know about the last episode but it seems like they carry more hostility towards Diggle and Felicity and their place in Olivers life more then they have to Oliver himself.

Imo from the episode I got that it was all about Oliver's own """"""betrayal"""""  to them. Curtis was originally only acting awkward with Oliver, Dinah assumed Oliver was lying to her about Vince even though it was Felicity (who was being very calm and showed her regret in saying it) who told her, and Rene only attempted to make it better for Oliver's sake and only got mad at Diggle and Felicity because they were going on the offense in defending Oliver. It was actually kind of weird, since they weirdly seemed dismissive of Diggle and Felicity's roles in the argument even though Dinah and Curtis, who are technically not the direct cause of this fight in the first place, have seen them both as friends and confidants. Maybe it's part of the motivation that it's some jealousy, but they kind of seemed more set on Oliver in this episode, with even the scene between them and only Diggle and Felicity becoming more about them being angry at Oliver than anything.

[statsgirl]

30 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

. And if ur the leader it is on you.. And asks them to come back.. I mean if u can work with merlyn after ALL the shit he pulled... You cab take back dinah and Curtis..

Oliver tried. He even apologized even though he had done nothing really wrong. (Dinah is pissed off that he put surveillance on her but she was dealing with the enemy behind their backs.  And Rene was the one who betrayed them so he doesn't have a leg to stand on.)

Oliver tried to take them back but they got pissy like children because Oliver was right not to trust them, and refused to work with him.

[lemotomato]

30 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Showing much growth... Apologizes for his part in the breakdown.. And if ur the leader it is on you.. And asks them to come back.. I mean if u can work with merlyn after ALL the shit he pulled... You cab take back dinah and Curtis..

Oliver did apologize for his part and asked them to rejoin the team. And the newbies said no because they couldn't get over themselves and their pride. They felt that they should be treated the same as Diggle and Felicity, who had been working with Oliver for 6 years. They wanted to be listened to as equals when Oliver, Diggle, and Felicity had 5 more years of experience doing this job than they did. Pretty unreasonable expectations, IMO.

[BkWurm1]

One of the things that really bugged me was NTA acting like Oliver was the one waiting around to go after Cayden James when it was those three that had been lazing on their arses for 5 weeks. And now they are acting like they are going to waltz in and clean up his mess. EVERYTHING is getting blamed on Oliver even if it doesn't make sense.  

Edited January 20, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

I think I really enjoyed this episode because prior to this, from reading spoilers and such I was worried they'd throw OTA under the bus and we'd be in here having a conversation along the lines of "OMG I can't believe so and so would do that! It is so OOC and clearly written to boost XYZ."

But they didn't! They threw Team Pissy under the bus and then drove over them a couple of times more to make sure there were tyre tracks! hehe the only thing that eludes me is I can't be certain if the writers are doing this on purpose or not! Cuz you never know with Arrow writers! 

[Cthulhudrew]

18 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, someone on another site pointed that this exchange actually just happened:

Oliver: “I thought you only killed criminals!”

Vince 'Vigilante' Sobel: “Vigilantes are criminals!” 

But... but.. but....oh, never mind.  My brain hurts too much to even process this.

Yes, very much this. It reminded me of this classic comic moment, when a woman suggests to the self-styled "Foolkiller" that only a fool would try to kill Spider-Man:

Edited January 20, 2018 by Cthulhudrew

[Mellowyellow]

His face here in reaction to her comment is just PRICELESS! It's baffling how SA can look like he's zoning out thinking about lunch when he acts with certain people and then pulls these kinds of faces when he's up against EBR. 

[Cthulhudrew]

When Dinah first learned that criminals were voluntarily turning themselves in to the SCPD (before we learned that a kinder, gentler Vigilante was intimidating them into doing so in lieu of killing them), was I alone here in thinking that this was some kind of Kayden James plot to fill the prison with bad guys in order to spring them out as part of his master plan against the city?

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

When Dinah first learned that criminals were voluntarily turning themselves in to the SCPD (before we learned that a kinder, gentler Vigilante was intimidating them into doing so in lieu of killing them), was I alone here in thinking that this was some kind of Kayden James plot to fill the prison with bad guys in order to spring them out as part of his master plan against the city?

It seemed too much just Vince's way of flirting to have deeper meaning.  But you never know.  

[BunsenBurner]

I would prefer that the NTA were disbanded never to return. 

 

I can’t stand BC. She gets all pissy at OTA for knowing for 24 hours before telling them that CJ and crew have known everything they have been doing in the lair since BS was in it weeks ago. Then she got mad at Felicity for telling her that the Vigilante is working with CJ. She leaves in a huff and immediately tells her lover that she knows that CJ and crew have been spying on them. To me what she did was just as bad as what Rene did. She was a traitor to Team Arrow just like Rene was in giving up GA/OQ to the FBI. 

Curtis is just a complete idiot. Who in their right mind would take over Helix and use the computers that are already there. They, to me, look like the same setup as it was for Helix. Backdoor anyone?

[apinknightmare]

56 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

When Dinah first learned that criminals were voluntarily turning themselves in to the SCPD (before we learned that a kinder, gentler Vigilante was intimidating them into doing so in lieu of killing them), was I alone here in thinking that this was some kind of Kayden James plot to fill the prison with bad guys in order to spring them out as part of his master plan against the city?

Yeah, that's what I thought too. I can't think of why else they'd turn themselves in en masse. 

[bijoux]

I realized this episode that Cayden James is suffering from the same thing as TA used to when they had all the newbies. His team is overcrowded with yahoos who interfere with actually interesting team members interacting, in this case CJ and Anatoli. Oh no, it's much better to have CJ with his goon squad who seem to have an itch in their pants (BS) and need to stock up on lozenges (Diaz), Hey, maybe that's why he turned to the life of crime. Modern medicine can't solve his chronic sore thtoat and has driven him to illegal 3D drug printing business! CJ's scene at the end with Vince wasn't bad, but I attribute that entirely to his hilarious displeased expression. I appreciated the comedy of that and whatever JH was doing in Dinah's confrontation with Vince. That shit was hilariously bad.

Oh hey, Curtis was right! Cayden didn't create an enviroment of distrust. It was the snitch on his right and holier than thou essential secrets keeper on his left. But I'm real happy for their victory of setting up their own little clubhouse. Good to have a place to bitch, it's not like they need it to fight crime, since they showed no inclination to do that since breaking off from OTA. Which is a red letter day in my book. The scenes with the original three worked so well. This wasn't a perfect episode by a long shot, but I found it enjoyable. I'm hoping this could be the start of a period like late season 1, early season 2. Laurel was über annoying, but the show was sizzling. I'm willing to put the b00bs in the Laurel box and enjoy the program.

[kes0704]

I’m torn trying to decide if they are deliberately writing Curtis, Rene and Dinah to be so unbearably unlikeable that the audience do indeed hate them or if it’s an unintentional outcome of terrible writing. 

If it’s a deliberate writing choice then I have no idea how they will redeem them enough for me to be okay having them back on the team.  Rene still betrayed Oliver and turned him in to the FBI to get something he wants, Dinah has lied repeatedly about more than one thing and Curtis is just annoying. 

But based on the previous history of the show it won’t surprise me to learn they didn’t mean for them to be so unlikeable, and will probably be “shocked” at the backlash and not be able to understand why the audience can’t see the newbies point of view.  

I’m just baffled about what they are going for with this whole storyline.

Edited January 20, 2018 by kes0704

[JamieLynn832002]

That's where I'm lost too. I can't see from a writing standpoint why'd they'd want us to hate the newbies but at the same time, if it's not deliberate, how did they miss the mark this badly? Of course, this is the same group who believed we'd see Felicity and Thea as terrible for acting against Susan so clearly reading the room isn't their strong point.

[LeighAn]

Just finished watching the episode the newbies are as every bit horrible and irredeemable as the hype made them out to be and the best part of the episode is that every time the newbies gave their hissy fit about trust that Oliver didn't grovel or appear distraught and would just be like "Whatever. Cool. Have fun trying to take out all those villains. Hope you don't die and have a great summer."

 

It reminds me of when Hyde teaches Jackie how to say whatever when Laurie tried to get under her skin in That 70's show. For reference:

[Chyromaniac]

17 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Less said about DinahI'msotoughletmejustmakesmolderinggoogooeyeswhateverthefuckherlastnameis, the better.

Hey - that’s my favorite village in Wales...

As for the Newbs - yikes. I think I get what the show is trying to do with them, but that - once again - they have no idea how to get to their goal. Honestly, it’s almost like the writers are space aliens who don’t comprehend human emotions or motivations.

 I assume that the split is supposed to be a growth moment for NTA- to show that they can be heroes in their own rights, and not just Ollie’s B-Squad replacements. But if that’s the case, why not just have them say it? “Ollie, we appreciate the offer, but for now we need to find our own path. We promise not to get in your way, but we need to know we can do this for ourselves.” Instead, they come off like immature hypocrites- it’s bafflingly stupid writing.

[tv echo]

ME's live tweets during this episode...

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, Chyromaniac said:

it’s bafflingly stupid writing.

That's Arrow.

[bijoux]

Did anyone else chuckle when Cayden told BS to, Let [Oliver] go, Ms Lance? I finally saw a connection to E1 Laurel there.

[tennisgurl]

I think the line that might have permanently killed the newbies for me was when Curtis said "Is that how you sleep at night, John?" about the surveillance. Like, are you freaking kidding me with that Curtis? Thats the worst thing that anyone could ever do? Diggle has been doing this for years now, has gone through all kinds of shit (including having to kill his evil brother!) and you get all up on your high horse towards him? Like your the big hero, and he`s just some asshole? That is such a dickish, self centered, horrible line, I think it might have killed Curtis (and possibly all the newbies) for me permanently. You do NOT disrespect Diggle like that, you little whippersnapper!

Its especially hilarious in how melodramatic it is, considering how minor the "crime" is, especially compared to actually horrible things we have seen both heroes and villains do in this franchise. You really ARE new here if you think this is as bad as it gets, Curtis. OTA spied on you, and thats what made you quit in a huff, and act like this is going to keep people up at night in how awful and evil this is? After multiple betrayals, near killings, actual killings, lies, secrets, manipulations, working with villains and reality bending that have happened, that everyone else has gotten over (because, again, MORE IMPORTANT SHIT WAS HAPPENING) that have gone on in both Arrow and in the Arrowverse at large, THIS is the line in the sand? You've even witnessed a lot of that crap, dude! Or heard about it at least, and your pulling out the "how do you sleep at night?!" drama, over this minor thing? What a self centered, entitled, piece of crap. 

And that not getting into the fact that Curtis did literally the same thing to Felicity not long ago. Oy.

Edited January 20, 2018 by tennisgurl

[WindofChange]

42 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I think the line that might have permanently killed the newbies for me was when Curtis said "Is that how you sleep at night, John?" about the surveillance. Like, are you freaking kidding me with that Curtis? Thats the worst thing that anyone could ever do? Diggle has been doing this for years now, has gone through all kinds of shit (including have to kill his evil brother!) and you get all up on your high horse towards him? Like your the big hero, and he`s just some asshole? That is such a dickish, self centered, horrible line, I think it might have killed Curtis (and possibly all the newbies) for me permanently. You do NOT disrespect Diggle like that, you little whippersnapper!

For me it was this line and Rene's "I'm getting tired of the way you talk to me" to Felicity...

Excuse me? That's rich from the guy who has consistently been such a dick towards Felicity