Truth and Lies: The Tonya Harding Story (ABC)

[UYI]

Airs January 11th at 9 PM Eastern on ABC.

I'm not gonna lie: I am looking forward to this SO much. 

[Ohwell]

I swear, I don't understand all the focus on Tonya Harding recently.  First, the movie; now a tv special.  I just don't get it.  

[Irlandesa]

14 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I swear, I don't understand all the focus on Tonya Harding recently.  First, the movie; now a tv special.  I just don't get it.  

I think the TV special is directly related to the fact that I, Tonya is out in theaters.  If it weren't for the movie, I'd be doubting the existence of the special.  But this is also Winter Olympics time coming up which feeds the relevance.

[Ohwell]

Yes, but I don't recall all this hoopla about her at the last Winter Olympics.  It's just odd, that's all.

[UYI]

23 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I swear, I don't understand all the focus on Tonya Harding recently.  First, the movie; now a tv special.  I just don't get it.  

The writer of the I, Tonya screenplay, Steven Rogers, has said that he was inspired to write the movie after watching the ESPN 30 for 30 special, The Price for Gold in 2014 (the 20th anniversary of what longtime figure skating reporter Christine Brennan has referred to as "The Whack Heard Around the World"). He saw the potential to find out more about Tonya's life and transform it into a movie (not that he didn't care about Nancy and what had happened to her, of course, but he was specifically interested in telling Tonya's story, hence why Nancy isn't really a character in the movie at all, outside of the attack itself).

Also, there are many people, since the #MeToo movement began a few months ago, who have started to look back on certain more infamous women in history and reexamine whether or not they deserved it. I, Tonya coming out right when the movement was reaching its height, I guess, lead to a perfect storm of attention around her in particular (and now the Winter Olympics are coming up, which ups the ante even more). YMMV on how much of it is deserved in her case, but I'm someone who likes/like both her and Nancy as skaters, and I recognize that both of them are equally sympathetic and unsympathetic for their own individual reasons. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by UYI

[Hanahope]

My daughter was asking about Tonya while we were watcing the GG and I explained the basics about it.  I'll have to record this show so we can watch it and she can get more information.

[Giant Misfit]

On 1/6/2018 at 1:07 PM, UYI said:

I'm not gonna lie: I am looking forward to this SO much. 

Me, tooooooo!!! I looooove Tonya! This story was the everything when it happened. 

There's a good preview on the ABC News site. In it, she now claims to have heard Gillhooly and "the bodyguard" discussing "something" about "taking someone out." I really, really wish she'd drop the ruse some 25 years later. She knew what they were planning on doing. Gillhooly even said so in this interview from 2013.  

I think what they did to Nancy was shitty and criminal. No getting around that no matter how much I disliked Nancy. And it annoys the crap out of me that I continue to root for Tonya despite her inability to reckon with her deed. 

1 hour ago, Hanahope said:

I'll have to record this show so we can watch it and she can get more information.

Please, please also seek out The Price of Gold -- mentioned previously in this thread. If someone didn't live through the spectacle back then, this is the closest they'll get to doing so.

[UYI]

The E! True Hollywood Story on Tonya from 1999 is also good, and it makes an interesting comparison point vs. The Price for Gold, as it was only five years removed from the scandal as opposed to 20. (The end is missing from this video, sadly, but everything else is there.)

[GreatKazu]

Quote

In it, she now claims to have heard Gillhooly and "the bodyguard" discussing "something" about "taking someone out." I really, really wish she'd drop the ruse some 25 years later. She knew what they were planning on doing.

The fact Tonya's story has changed here and there over these 25 years tells me what I already knew - she is guilty. 

The mention that Shawn Eckhardt wasn't her bodyguard and was just some stupid idiot (whatever she called him), only makes me roll my eyes all over again. Sure, you just have this guy right next to you and behind you everywhere you went, but he isn't your bodyguard. You are right. He was no body guard. He was a guy who helped you all behind the attack. 

[Giant Misfit]

5 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

The fact Tonya's story has changed here and there over these 25 years tells me what I already knew - she is guilty. 

 

You know, during most of the show, it was the first time since the incident happened that I thought, "Huh, maybe she really didn't know anything." And then, at the very end, she drops that story about overhearing "something" and was asked a follow up question and then stammered her way through an answer and I thought, damn girl you are really, really bad at lying. 

I will say that I 100% believe Tonya about her mother's horrible abuse. I wanted to slap her gaslighting mother through the TV. Why? Because her "oh, that never happened," and "oh, well, that happened but I only beat her once" is standard textbook gaslighter-speak 101. I'd hear the same thing from my own parents for years when they were confronted with what they did. Tonya's rage was real -- no doubt about it. I don't blame her at all for being that angry.

I could have lived without the insertion of Dan Abrams whose only function seemed to be acting like a human legal disclaimer, "[so and so] denied this ever happened" was really his only contribution to the story. 

[Laurie4H]

Tonya’s voice and demeanor is completely different than it was 20 plus years ago.  I’m assuming the change is her voice is from smoking but her demeanor is because she some type of antidepressants now?  Or she had a few shots before the interview.  

[Mrs. Hanson]

5 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Tonya’s voice and demeanor is completely different than it was 20 plus years ago.  I’m assuming the change is her voice is from smoking but her demeanor is because she some type of antidepressants now?  Or she had a few shots before the interview.  

I agree - her voice is deeper (age and smoking, I assume) and she did seem a bit off.  I wonder if a Valium or two was ingested beforehand.

 

11 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

The fact Tonya's story has changed here and there over these 25 years tells me what I already knew - she is guilty. 

The mention that Shawn Eckhardt wasn't her bodyguard and was just some stupid idiot (whatever she called him), only makes me roll my eyes all over again. Sure, you just have this guy right next to you and behind you everywhere you went, but he isn't your bodyguard. You are right. He was no body guard. He was a guy who helped you all behind the attack. 

Tonya and all her thugs are the Gang That Could Not Shoot Straight Part 2.  The sad part about Tonya is this:  She did not need to have Nancy K taken out of the competition.  She was fab all on her own.  If she would have stuck to a training schedule, laid off the cigs and drinking.....wow.....she was such a pure and athletic skater.  I used to follow ice skating in the 80's and 90's (heck even in the 70's!!!  Janet Lynn was my fave.)  To now say "Oh I overheard them"....a little late there Tonya.  A lot of people (me included) don't care if you were brought up in a trailer park, heck it makes us like you more!!  But to be in on that awful plan.......sorry Tonya.  Your time is up.  And then to act all indignant about apologizing?  

[nodorothyparker]

Good gods, what a trainwreck these two hours were.  Tonya will of course always be Tonya, but the narrative was so meandering all over the place in trying to validate and give equal time to all the various feelings about her and the story overall that it just ended up being a muddled mess.  

I don't even care all that much anymore what she knew and when she knew it in the Whack Heard Round the World.  She's done her penance, being permanently barred from the one thing that did make a difference in her life and having spent the last quarter century as something of both a pariah and a longstanding joke.  I thought when it happened and I still think now that there was a huge amount of classism at play about both her and her assorted hangers on, as well as preconceived ideas of what was acceptable feminine or ladylike behavior, but the two hours barely touched on this beyond a ha ha, Tonya was such an unpolished tomboy.  The media frenzy was part of the story as they inserted themselves into it over and over trying to provoke reactions from her they could use on camera in what we know now was only a warmup act for when OJ Simpson erupted a few months later.  Instead of any possible thoughtful reflection on that, we get a lot of navel gazing and Tonya trying to convince us and herself that she's just fine with how it all turned out.

[GreatKazu]

Tonya got her lying skills from her mother. 

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

I thought when it happened and I still think now that there was a huge amount of classism at play about both her and her assorted hangers on, as well as preconceived ideas of what was acceptable feminine or ladylike behavior, but the two hours barely touched on this beyond a ha ha, Tonya was such an unpolished tomboy.

I agree.  Hey I was an unpolished tomboy and so friggin what? (I speak well nowadays and I don't curse....lol!)  Get over it and be you.  I think she is just annoyed that all that natural talent was wasted on some loser dude (Gilooly?  Really?  Where are you from? Dogpatch?) and now she is a working class person, like her mom who she never speaks to.  (I am working class, a special education teacher so no judging here.)  She got caught up in Jeff's attentions, he got her out of her house, etc......and now what?  2018 and she works in construction, day labor jobs.....hmm...Someone can correct me but that is the update I read on her current status.  Meanwhile, Nancy K has stable and loving long term marriage, great family and lots of fan support.  (I was never really a fan of hers either, truthfully!)  And for Tonya to say she and Nancy were friends?  Not buying it.

The best part about that interview was the woman from the Portland newspaper - she was funny and smart about her remarks.  "You are in fourth?  You may as well be four hundred!)

58 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Tonya got her lying skills from her mother. 

Yep - they are both pieces of work, aren't they?  I do believe her mom really was that rough with her and now?  "What is the big deal?"  Ugh.

Interesting that both Jeff Giolooly and Shawn Eckhart changed their names.  Wouldn't you?

Edited January 12, 2018 by Mrs. Hanson

[UYI]

8 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

 

I will say that I 100% believe Tonya about her mother's horrible abuse. I wanted to slap her gaslighting mother through the TV. Why? Because her "oh, that never happened," and "oh, well, that happened but I only beat her once" is standard textbook gaslighter-speak 101. I'd hear the same thing from my own parents for years when they were confronted with what they did. Tonya's rage was real -- no doubt about it. I don't blame her at all for being that angry.

 

I agree. And for that reason alone, I have to mention one big thing I give Tonya credit for: She seems like a much better mom to her son than her own mom ever was to her. That's not a high bar, admittedly, but for her it's pretty damn miraculous, all things considered. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by UYI

[iMonrey]

I've seen many interviews with Tonya over the years and she never comes across very well. To now admit she overheard some talk about "taking someone out" is the closest she's ever come to admitting she had prior knowledge of the attack. I wonder if there is a statute of limitations in prosecuting her if she just finally admitted she was in on it all along.

To be honest, for years I thought it was entirely plausible she had no prior knowledge of the attack, based on 2 things. One, that she and Gillooly were interviewed - separately - by the FBI in 1994 before they had even left Detroit and asked if they knew Shawn Eckhardt. Gillooly played dumb and pretended not to know him, for obvious reasons. Tonya openly admitted she knew him and that he was one of her husband's friends. So, she seemed not to suspect why they were asking her about him. Secondly, after she returned home, she was met by the press at the Portland airport, and asked if she was looking forward to skating against Nancy at the Olympics. Her response was "I'm going to whip her butt." I'm at a loss to see how she could say such a thing if she had the slightest inkling she was being considered as a suspect. It did seem to support her story she didn't realize what was going on until after she got home.

Looking back now, I think maybe her "I'm going to whip her butt" comment was possibly her attempt to show she didn't want Kerrigan taken out of contention because she very much wanted to compete against her and win fair and square.

The new movie out now seems to be validating her a lot and making her dig her heels in even further. She's spent so long insisting she was the innocent party in all of this, so why on earth go so far as to admit she'd heard anything about taking someone out? Maybe it's her way of countering all the accusations that she knew - she feels the need to concede some level of prior knowledge just in answer to all the accusations.

I will say, I was surprised and impressed to see how well she still skates. She doesn't look like she's in great shape, frankly, yet she's doing great double combo jumps like a pro. At the end of the day the whole thing is just sad. Sad to think what she could have been.

[PradaKitty]

I was starting (along with a bunch of other people) to sympathize with Tonya and also starting to think that maybe it was time for America to forgive her and give her a second chance ( a la Vanessa Williams and the Miss America organization) and then I see this morning that she has fired her long term agent because he would not FINE interviewers a substantial sum if they mentioned the Kerrigan incident.  Honey, this is why you are in the media again. That’s what the film is about! If you would just suck it up, try to be gracious and answer questions, you may actually be appreciated, liked, and possibly forgiven by those in the skating world.  The diva behavior just makes it worse. 

Poor woman can’t get out of her own way...

[Mrs. Hanson]

9 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

I was starting (along with a bunch of other people) to sympathize with Tonya and also starting to think that maybe it was time for America to forgive her and give her a second chance ( a la Vanessa Williams and the Miss America organization) and then I see this morning that she has fired her long term agent because he would not FINE interviewers a substantial sum if they mentioned the Kerrigan incident.  Honey, this is why you are in the media again. That’s what the film is about! If you would just suck it up, try to be gracious and answer questions, you may actually be appreciated, liked, and possibly forgiven by those in the skating world.  The diva behavior just makes it worse. 

Poor woman can’t get out of her own way...

Bolding mine:  She really can't, can she?  Showing up in 1992 to France three DAYS before competing?  Jetlag?  Training?  Nah....let's wing it.  There was NO REASON she could not have brought home a medal-  -Kristy Yamaguchi was 1st, Midori Ito was 2nd, Nancy K was 3rd - she could have brought home the bronze.  

[UYI]

This was posted on Twitter last night by longtime figure skating reporter (and Tonya critic--nor for her skating talent, though, or for her background--everything else? Yes.) Christine Brennan.

I do want to provide some context, though. Forgive me, this will be kind of long.

Despite the tone that Christine Brennan (read her skating books, BTW--VERY biased in terms of which skaters she likes/dislikes, but still worth it for all the dirt) took in her Tweet, I'd be surprised if this means Michael Rosenberg has ended his friendship with her.

Her request was BS for sure, but he has been in her corner on everything--taking her side in regards to the Nancy Kerrigan attack included--from day one.

He wasn't interviewed last night or for The Price of Gold (he claims he was never asked), but he WAS interviewed for her E! True Hollywood Story in 1999, and she couldn't have asked for a more loyal friend than Michael.

He DID terminate his business relationship with her as her agent in late 1993, right before what happened to Nancy, because he felt that Jeff was interfering with his job to represent Tonya, but like I said, he has stood behind her throughout everything regardless, including "the incident".

And for the record, a lot of the interviews last night from those reporters who knew her, and old friends of hers, struck me more as very sad and angry that she went down the path that she did, rather than dismissing her as white trash. It may have been hard for Tonya to see it that way, but that's how I interpreted it.

2 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Bolding mine:  She really can't, can she?  Showing up in 1992 to France three DAYS before competing?  Jetlag?  Training?  Nah....let's wing it.  There was NO REASON she could not have brought home a medal-  -Kristy Yamaguchi was 1st, Midori Ito was 2nd, Nancy K was 3rd - she could have brought home the bronze.  

This wasn't mentioned last night, but for what it's worth, I have heard a story came out later that the USFSA jerked her around and threatened not to send her until the absolute last minute,and the last minute arrival story was a cover. And this wasn't from Tonya; this was from a journalist whose name now escapes me. I'm kind of surprised it didn't come up last night, although I suppose it could be false. 

[UYI]

22 minutes ago, PradaKitty said:

I was starting (along with a bunch of other people) to sympathize with Tonya and also starting to think that maybe it was time for America to forgive her and give her a second chance ( a la Vanessa Williams and the Miss America organization) and then I see this morning that she has fired her long term agent because he would not FINE interviewers a substantial sum if they mentioned the Kerrigan incident.  Honey, this is why you are in the media again. That’s what the film is about! If you would just suck it up, try to be gracious and answer questions, you may actually be appreciated, liked, and possibly forgiven by those in the skating world.  The diva behavior just makes it worse. 

Poor woman can’t get out of her own way...

I posted about this above, but I think Michael Rosenberg actually quit.

I do agree that her demands were stupid, though. 

[Maharincess]

On 1/9/2018 at 8:26 AM, Hanahope said:

My daughter was asking about Tonya while we were watcing the GG and I explained the basics about it.  I'll have to record this show so we can watch it and she can get more information.

What is the GG? 

[UYI]

1 minute ago, Maharincess said:

What is the GG? 

The Golden Globes.

[GreatKazu]

8 hours ago, Maharincess said:

What is the GG? 

Golden Globes, sweetie.

Tonya was there for the movie.

Edited January 13, 2018 by GreatKazu
stupid fingers typed in an extra "L"

[nodorothyparker]

24 minutes ago, UYI said:

This wasn't mentioned last night, but for what it's worth, I have heard a story came out later that the USFSA jerked her around and threatened not to send her until the absolute last minute,and the last minute arrival story was a cover. And this wasn't from Tonya; this was from a journalist whose name now escapes me. I'm kind of surprised it didn't come up last night, although I suppose it could be false. 

It's entirely possible.  I vaguely remember at the time that no one was being very forthcoming about how the whole mess would be handled as far as who was going, which is how little 13-year-old Michelle Kwan ended up in Lillehammer that Olympics as an alternate or possible replacement should they decide to dump Tonya from the team or more publicly if Nancy wasn't up to competing.  The story seemed to change day to day.  I'm trying to remember where I've read it in the number of articles that have appeared since the Golden Globes rehashing the whole mess, but I know there was one that talked about how some of the other Olympic athletes at the time weren't terribly happy about how whoever was running the show for the team basically left her to twist in the wind and didn't do anything to try to shield her or the skaters in general from the intense media scrutiny when they should have been focusing solely on their performance.  How much truth there is to that I have no idea but it's interesting to consider.

[UYI]

8 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

It's entirely possible.  I vaguely remember at the time that no one was being very forthcoming about how the whole mess would be handled as far as who was going, which is how little 13-year-old Michelle Kwan ended up in Lillehammer that Olympics as an alternate or possible replacement should they decide to dump Tonya from the team or more publicly if Nancy wasn't up to competing.  The story seemed to change day to day.  I'm trying to remember where I've read it in the number of articles that have appeared since the Golden Globes rehashing the whole mess, but I know there was one that talked about how some of the other Olympic athletes at the time weren't terribly happy about how whoever was running the show for the team basically left her to twist in the wind and didn't do anything to try to shield her or the skaters in general from the intense media scrutiny when they should have been focusing solely on their performance.  How much truth there is to that I have no idea but it's interesting to consider.

I was referring to the 1992 Olympics in Albertville, FYI. She was actually there early in 1994. 

Edited January 12, 2018 by UYI

[iMonrey]

Quote

This wasn't mentioned last night, but for what it's worth, I have heard a story came out later that the USFSA jerked her around and threatened not to send her until the absolute last minute,and the last minute arrival story was a cover. And this wasn't from Tonya; this was from a journalist whose name now escapes me. I'm kind of surprised it didn't come up last night, although I suppose it could be false. 

Yeah - those are two different incidents. She arrived late for the 1992 Olympics in Albertville for no particular reason anyone can determine. I don't know whether she arrived late for the Olympics in Lillihammer in 1994 (UYI says early) but I do know either the Olympic officials, or the USFSA, or both, asked her not to participate in the opening ceremonies and parade.

[Maharincess]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

Golden Gllobes, sweetie.

Tonya was there for the movie.

Ah, no wonder I didn't know. I don't watch award shows. I thought it meant the Golden Girls.  I miss words. 

[Mrs. Hanson]

2 minutes ago, Maharincess said:

I thought it meant the Golden Girls. 

I thought it was Golden Girls too!!!  

[Lovecat]

I think my favorite moment of the whole two hours was when Tonya's mother said, "They always said we were trailer trash.  And that's not true!  We had a *beautiful* new trailer..."

Oh, and my hatred of Nancy Kerrigan relented for just a second when she was shown in a commercial bumper saying (re: "Whyyyyyyyyyyy??????"), "I think it's a perfectly reasonable question!"

I too was impressed at how good she looked on the ice.  It's really a shame that all that potential was wasted because she's such a hot damn mess.

[Giant Misfit]

13 minutes ago, Lovecat said:

I think my favorite moment of the whole two hours was when Tonya's mother said, "They always said we were trailer trash.  And that's not true!  We had a *beautiful* new trailer..."

How fantastic was THAT? It also goes back to my point of her being a gaslighter -- because, yes, you DID live in a trailer. The trailer itself didn't have to be "trashy" lady -- YOU were the trashy one! I also laughed out loud when she said she never put brandy into her coffee but, rather, brandy flavoring. My god, woman! Are you my mother?!

2 hours ago, UYI said:

Despite the tone that Christine Brennan (read her skating books, BTW--VERY biased in terms of which skaters she likes/dislikes, but still worth it for all the dirt)

I'll give them a try! I didn't like her at all though - she clearly seemed to come at Tonya from a place of deep-seated hatred. Granted, what Tonya did was shitty but I felt there was some undercurrent of disdain there for Tonya that transcended the assault. I still feel the skating community views Tonya as low-life garbage who tarnished their brand.

I think Tonya has paid a heavy price for the assault against Kerrigan -- and I think Kerrigan (based on the interview from that show) seems completely over it. 

[PradaKitty]

I also laughed at To ta’s mom commenting on the “new” trailer! Poor dear, it’s not that you lived in a bad trailer, it’s that you lived in a trailer at all. 

That was supposed to say Tonya’s mom! But.. I suppose you all get that...

[Giant Misfit]

5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Good gods, what a trainwreck these two hours were.  Tonya will of course always be Tonya, but the narrative was so meandering all over the place in trying to validate and give equal time to all the various feelings about her and the story overall that it just ended up being a muddled mess.  

I don't even care all that much anymore what she knew and when she knew it in the Whack Heard Round the World.  She's done her penance, being permanently barred from the one thing that did make a difference in her life and having spent the last quarter century as something of both a pariah and a longstanding joke.  I thought when it happened and I still think now that there was a huge amount of classism at play about both her and her assorted hangers on, as well as preconceived ideas of what was acceptable feminine or ladylike behavior, but the two hours barely touched on this beyond a ha ha, Tonya was such an unpolished tomboy.  The media frenzy was part of the story as they inserted themselves into it over and over trying to provoke reactions from her they could use on camera in what we know now was only a warmup act for when OJ Simpson erupted a few months later.  Instead of any possible thoughtful reflection on that, we get a lot of navel gazing and Tonya trying to convince us and herself that she's just fine with how it all turned out.

Amen to all this! It was not a well-produced show at all. Why was Chris Connelly in there? He contributed nothing. Was he bored at the office and demanded some camera time? Also really don't care what Margot Robbie had to say either. I know she played Tonya -- but she really didn't lend anything insightful to the process. 

[Mrs. Hanson]

3 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Amen to all this! It was not a well-produced show at all. Why was Chris Connelly in there? He contributed nothing. Was he bored at the office and demanded some camera time? Also really don't care what Margot Robbie had to say either. I know she played Tonya -- but she really didn't lend anything insightful to the process. 

I agree about the Margot Robbie angle, too - why was she there?  This whole thing could have been pared down to an hour - we could have done without Dan Abrams as well.

 

3 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

and I think Kerrigan (based on the interview from that show) seems completely over it.

I would be too.  Look at her happy and successful life - and I was not a Nancy K fan.  I got sooooo tired of that "WHYYYYYY?" in that yelping voice.  

I am not a drinker, hubby does occasionally - brandy "flavoring" is NOT cheap - like $20 or so for a bottle that is not big (depends on location, obviously) so if that family was so hard up for cash....where did the money for the drinking and cigs come in?  I have never been a smoker but cigarettes are NOT cheap anywhere.

I really don't care that they lived in a trailer - it was their home.  And as for Tonya driving a pickup truck?  Who the hell cares?  Lots of women do but then again I live in MN!!!!

Edited to add:  My hubby just asked me stop at the liquor store and buy.....brandy!!!  (Who knew?)

Edited January 13, 2018 by Mrs. Hanson

[UYI]

56 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

I am not a drinker, hubby does occasionally - brandy "flavoring" is NOT cheap - like $20 or so for a bottle that is not big (depends on location, obviously) so if that family was so hard up for cash....where did the money for the drinking and cigs come in?  I have never been a smoker but cigarettes are NOT cheap anywhere.

 

How much cheaper would cigarettes have been in the 70s/80s/90s, though? I imagine they would have been easier to buy before the taxes on them were so high.

[ichbin]

3 hours ago, Giant Misfit said:

Granted, what Tonya did was shitty but I felt there was some undercurrent of disdain there for Tonya that transcended the assault. I still feel the skating community views Tonya as low-life garbage who tarnished their brand.

I feel this way too and that feeling dates back to before the attack on Kerrigan.  You always were able to tell who the favored skater was and skill and athleticism were not necessarily the determining factor.  Tonya never just fluttered about between executing jumps.  She owned the ice.  I started losing interest in following the sport during the years that Michelle Kwan was the golden girl regardless of the competition and then became completely turned off by the way Johnny Weir was treated.   I caught a bit of the nationals for the first time this year.  It's too bad Tonya didn't come along a decade or two later.  I think her athleticism would have been better appreciated today than it was in the 80's/90's when the judges and skating association were still looking at the Peggy Fleming style as a benchmark for women's skating.  

I saw I, Tonya a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it.  It seems to explain, rather than excuse the attack, regardless if one believes or doubts Harding's statement (or statements) about what happened.   Allison Janney was right in her acceptance speech at the Golden Globes when she said it's very much a story about class.  

Watching the ABC speciaI I was really impressed by what Harding can still do on the ice after all these years.  Under the circumstances, I think taking away her ability to make a career out of that skating skill amounted to cruel and unusual punishment.  

Edited January 13, 2018 by ichbin
words

[GreatKazu]

To hear Tonya say how she was in fear of her life after Nancy was attacked, and then quickly added being in fear for everyone (the other skaters - she caught herself there) was eye-rolling. Her comment was even more ludicrous when she later said she overheard her spouse and his friends talk about attacking someone and "taking someone out" since in her mind, it meant they were talking about harming someone else. It makes no sense for her to have uttered ever being in fear. That is like O.J. saying he was in fear that Nicole's killers were going after him next. 

Tonya is trash and it has nothing to do with where she grew up, how she lived, what kind of home she grew up in. She is like her mother in many ways. 

[nlkm9]

On 1/6/2018 at 4:46 PM, Ohwell said:

Yes, but I don't recall all this hoopla about her at the last Winter Olympics.  It's just odd, that's all.

a movie wasnt out--and the special features margot robboie who stars in the movie.

11 hours ago, ichbin said:

I feel this way too and that feeling dates back to before the attack on Kerrigan.  You always were able to tell who the favored skater was and skill and athleticism were not necessarily the determining factor.  Tonya never just fluttered about between executing jumps.  She owned the ice.  I started losing interest in following the sport during the years that Michelle Kwan was the golden girl regardless of the competition and then became completely turned off by the way Johnny Weir was treated.   I caught a bit of the nationals for the first time this year.  It's too bad Tonya didn't come along a decade or two later.  I think her athleticism would have been better appreciated today than it was in the 80's/90's when the judges and skating association were still looking at the Peggy Fleming style as a benchmark for women's skating.  

I saw I, Tonya a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it.  It seems to explain, rather than excuse the attack, regardless if one believes or doubts Harding's statement (or statements) about what happened.   Allison Janney was right in her acceptance speech at the Golden Globes when she said it's very much a story about class.  

Watching the ABC speciaI I was really impressed by what Harding can still do on the ice after all these years.  Under the circumstances, I think taking away her ability to make a career out of that skating skill amounted to cruel and unusual punishment.  

agree with all you say, very strong athletic women are definitely more appreciated now, much less body shaming etc...I hate that she was banned from skating and that she was stripped of her national title (what a cruel blow) but that fact is it is VERY possible she was involved in the attack AND she may not have won if nancy Kerrigan hadnt been attacked.....it was really the only punishment but it is very sad. reminds me of Pete Rose and all his supporters--its a tough thing.

[Ohwell]

3 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

a movie wasnt out--and the special features margot robboie who stars in the movie.

When the movie was out, or whether Margot Robbie was in the special wasn't the point.  I'm just wondering why all the fuss about Tonya Harding now.  

[nlkm9]

17 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

When the movie was out, or whether Margot Robbie was in the special wasn't the point.  I'm just wondering why all the fuss about Tonya Harding now.  

I think they cleverly timed the movie release because winter olympics are happening....with a well done movie over a very polarizing subject comes media attention-everyone jumping in with their take. -thats why I think theres a fuss all of a sudden. 

[Ohwell]

7 minutes ago, nlkm9 said:

I think they cleverly timed the movie release because winter olympics are happening....with a well done movie over a very polarizing subject comes media attention-everyone jumping in with their take. -thats why I think theres a fuss all of a sudden. 

I think you're missing my point.  There have been previous Winter Olympics in which she hasn't been mentioned, and I was wondering why this one.  That's all I was saying.  Ok? Let's just let it end here.

[Mrs. Hanson]

12 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Tonya is trash and it has nothing to do with where she grew up, how she lived, what kind of home she grew up in.

Yep - she is a cursing girl who thinks it is funny to be a swearin' drinkin' smokin' hard livin' kinda gal.  She had no manners, she has no class and is hoping to trade all this is for $$$ these days.  She is way too much like her mom - no wonder they don't get along!!!

[ichbin]

3 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

I hate that she was banned from skating and that she was stripped of her national title (what a cruel blow) but that fact is it is VERY possible she was involved in the attack AND she may not have won if nancy Kerrigan hadnt been attacked.....it was really the only punishment but it is very sad. reminds me of Pete Rose and all his supporters--its a tough thing.

I can understand taking away her title, but the lifetime ban is harsh considering that people proven to have committed far more worse crimes resulting in victims left with permanent injuries, etc. have been given determinate sentences and the opportunity to learn new skills or gain an education while in prison.  A ban for a given time period would also have served as appropriate punishment.  

[GreatKazu]

Quote

I swear, I don't understand all the focus on Tonya Harding recently.  First, the movie; now a tv special.  I just don't get it.

I get this tv special being in conjunction with the film, but I do agree, I don't get why this movie was made now after all this time. It would have made sense years ago, but not now. 

[Mrs. Hanson]

1 hour ago, ichbin said:

I can understand taking away her title, but the lifetime ban is harsh considering that people proven to have committed far more worse crimes resulting in victims left with permanent injuries, etc. have been given determinate sentences and the opportunity to learn new skills or gain an education while in prison.  A ban for a given time period would also have served as appropriate punishment.  

I agree. Lifetime Ban?  For failing to report a crime?  We all know she probably knew more but at that time that is all they had.  Take what she is talented at, what she is really good at?  Get over yourselves Skating World.  I can see not allowing her to compete but she can't coach or anything.  That sounded rough to me then, sounds rough to me know.

[ichbin]

23 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

I get this tv special being in conjunction with the film, but I do agree, I don't get why this movie was made now after all this time. It would have made sense years ago, but not now. 

Might as well ask "Why Dunkirk?" or "Why All the Money in the World?" after all these years.  I'm guessing it's pretty much why any other movie gets made.  Someone had a concept and then wrote a screenplay that a studio picked up because they believed it would be interesting and entertaining enough to make them a monetary profit.  Timing wide release around the time of the Olympics makes good marketing sense.   

35 minutes ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

Get over yourselves Skating World.  I can see not allowing her to compete but she can't coach or anything.  That sounded rough to me then, sounds rough to me know.

It really seems like they wanted to destroy her personally as well as taking away any chance of future success that might give any other little square pegs from the wrong side of the tracks any ideas about trying to fit into their perfectly round holes.

[GreatKazu]

16 minutes ago, ichbin said:

Might as well ask "Why Dunkirk?" or "Why All the Money in the World?" after all these years.  I'm guessing it's pretty much why any other movie gets made.  Someone had a concept and then wrote a screenplay that a studio picked up because they believed it would be interesting and entertaining enough to make them a monetary profit.  Timing wide release around the time of the Olympics makes good marketing sense.   

It really seems like they wanted to destroy her personally as well as taking away any chance of future success that might give any other little square pegs from the wrong side of the tracks any ideas about trying to fit into their perfectly round holes.

I personally don't see why Tonya's story warrants a film. I may be viewing it differently than other people, but I don't think a lot of people care at this point how she grew up or to watch her toxic and abusive relationship with her mother. It would be like making a film about Nancy. I think some people are just sick of it already. It is not a film about a military operation during WW2. There are always people interested in WW2 stories. As for the other film, it is a story that people are likely to find intriguing no matter how many years pass. 

[ombelico]

I'm happy to see a one-off independent movie about Tonya Harding get made (and planning to go see it later today) rather than the Nth redundant installment of whatever CGI robot-explosion-car-extravaganza.

The weariness with the Tonya story, though, is that she just does not get that America likely would forgive her, if she were just clearly honest about what happened regarding the plan to attack Kerrigan and contrite about what her role in it was. Her constantly changing stories and neverending excuses (nothing is ever her fault) just prevent the general public from saying, "Ok, yeah, what you did was really wrong, but let's move forward since it's been over 20 years."

Regarding this particular show, it easily could have just been a rerun of "The Price of Gold" with a 15 min Tonya interview tacked on at the end. I think the only new information gleaned from it was that Tonya still has some strong skating skills.  Which also shows how sad the whole thing is. Many, many people grow up in poor, unstable, and/or abusive homes. But they don't have this amazing talent for something like skating that they can use to improve their lot in life. She threw that away, and now wants to find whatever excuse she can to blame everyone else but herself.

I agree there was something weird about her speech patterns, that wasn't there in the videos from the '90s. 

[UYI]

6 hours ago, ichbin said:

I can understand taking away her title, but the lifetime ban is harsh considering that people proven to have committed far more worse crimes resulting in victims left with permanent injuries, etc. have been given determinate sentences and the opportunity to learn new skills or gain an education while in prison.  A ban for a given time period would also have served as appropriate punishment.  

Look at how many men in sports have gotten second chances, MORE than second chances--Mike Tyson, Ray Lewis--and plenty of opportunities to work within their fields again as if they never did anything wrong. It's insane. I don't quite know what the PROPER punishment would have been with what the court had against her at the time, a lifetime ban from skating didn't necessarily have to be a part of it (although it's clear that that hurt Tonya more than even prison probably ever could have).

 

It should be noted, though, that even with the USFSA's ban against her in regards to their skating events, they did NOT have any power to ban her from any professional skating events. If someone running a professional ice skating show, even today, wanted to hire Tonya, they have every right to do so. The problem is, even if the USFSA HADN'T issued that lifetime ban, there would still probably be a lot people within that world who still wanted nothing to do with her (as there were with the ban in effect), so even though she technically could perform in a professional skating event if she had the chance, she was/is effectively persona non grata from that arena, too. And the thing is, there may even be people who WANT to work with her, but many of them could very well be afraid of being blackballed by the USFSA themselves if they're American skaters.

 

However, she HAS performed in at least ONE professional ice show since her ban--in 1999, she had the chance to perform at an event in Huntington, WV. Among her competitors were France's Surya Bonaly, and Canada's Elizabeth Manley, so there were at least a few skaters willing to skate in the same show that she was in.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2018 by UYI

[nlkm9]

4 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

I personally don't see why Tonya's story warrants a film. I may be viewing it differently than other people, but I don't think a lot of people care at this point how she grew up or to watch her toxic and abusive relationship with her mother. It would be like making a film about Nancy. I think some people are just sick of it already. It is not a film about a military operation during WW2. There are always people interested in WW2 stories. As for the other film, it is a story that people are likely to find intriguing no matter how many years pass. 

while I agree with you, as soon as i heard about this film I knew I wanted to see it--there are obviously many people like myself, who remember this event in a very much free internet/social media world, although I hadnt thought about it in years I cant wait to see it. Im also one of those people who loves seeing all sides of a story, so I cant wait to see it. But you have a good point.

7 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I think you're missing my point.  There have been previous Winter Olympics in which she hasn't been mentioned, and I was wondering why this one.  That's all I was saying.  Ok? Let's just let it end here.

I read that this has been in development for several years, yes i see what youre saying.